Berkman's Testimonial

[toddthebod]

So I haven't seen any discussion of Faith & Family night at Minute Maid Park.  I think it's a little strange to have a player give "testimony" before a game.  Was this his idea?  Also, Lance is only budgeted for 15 minutes.  What's going to happen?  Has this ever happened before at an MLB game?

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/hou/ticketing/faithandfamily.jsp

[JaneDoe]

So I haven't seen any discussion of Faith & Family night at Minute Maid Park.  I think it's a little strange to have a player give "testimony" before a game.  Was this his idea?  Also, Lance is only budgeted for 15 minutes.  What's going to happen?  Has this ever happened before at an MLB game?

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/hou/ticketing/faithandfamily.jsp

I'm pretty sure he has done this before, maybe several times.  They are not making anyone attend.  I see no problem with it.

[Bench]

I think they did it last year as well.

[MusicMan]

They are separate events with separate tickets.  No big deal.

[Taras Bulba]

"Chaplain Charlie will tell you about how the free world will conquer communism with the aid of God and a few Marines.  God has  a hard on for Marines because we kill everything we see!  He plays His games, we play ours.  To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls.  So, you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps!  Do you ladies understand?"

I think it will go a little like this.  Do you feel better, Todd?

[ybbodeus]

I presume Wayne Graham will provide the opening remarks?

[OregonStrosFan]

Information from NY Times article in March 2008.  Link.

“Two years ago, we did 76 events in 44 markets,” Brent High, the president of Third Coast Sports, said.

Third Coast Sports, a Nashville company High described as a nonprofit ministry, stages faith-based events for teams that want them. In the majors, High said, Third Coast has worked with the Braves, Astros, Twins, Dodgers, Rangers, Reds, Cardinals and Nationals. The Royals will join the list this season.High and officials of the clubs who have hired him credit faith nights for bringing more fans to the games.

“Our purpose was to garner ticket sales,” said Chartese Burnett, the vice president for communications of the Washington Nationals. “It had nothing to do with faith; it had to do with being inclusive.”

“They take place before or after ballgames,” he said in a telephone interview Saturday. “People have to make a concerted effort to be part of this, whether coming earlier or staying later. Since the beginning, we have gone to great lengths to keep these events from the normal game experience.”

Lance Berkman in Houston, Josh Hamilton in Cincinnati, Matthew LeCroy and Lew Ford in Minnesota, and Micah Bowie, Jason Simontacchi, Ryan Langerhans and Tony Batista in Washington have given their testimonies in the past.

[pravata]

2007
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070807&content_id=2135483&vkey=pr_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[farmstros]

this is not a new phenomena.  I remember seeing Matt Nokes share his faith in Christ after a Brewers/Tigers game at County Stadium back in 1989 or 1990.  It wasn't marketed to nearly the degree that it is these days but it was there.  It does seem a bit peculiar that he is doing it before the game.  Seems like there might be some game prep on his mind.

[Noe]

One of the first to do it in the recent past was JR House while at Nashville. It created a stir but they found that many wanted to attend and were willing to listen to the young man speak.  That is when it started.  IOW - it's not a deterrent to ballpark attendance so why would anyone frown upon it?  It's not like your forced to listen during the seventh inning stretch or anything.  If it did not resonate with fans it would not continue.

[DVauthrin]

This is really cool as far as I'm concerned.    Bravo to lance for being willing to share his testimony.

[pravata]

This is really cool as far as I'm concerned.    Bravo to lance for being willing to share his testimony.

I think like minded people will find their opinions supported being in a large group listening to Berkman.  And Berkman will gain affirmation for his opinions speaking to like minded people.  I don't think Berkman's testimony extends further than that.  And I don't think he expects, nor cares whether it does or not.  You brought it up.

[legs_of_eggs]

Hellelujah!

[JimR]

Fuck you, l o e

[ybbodeus]

And may God bless you for not quoting him, sir.

[Houston]

So I haven't seen any discussion of Faith & Family night at Minute Maid Park.  I think it's a little strange to have a player give "testimony" before a game.  Was this his idea?  Also, Lance is only budgeted for 15 minutes.  What's going to happen?  Has this ever happened before at an MLB game?

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/hou/ticketing/faithandfamily.jsp

Of course it has a purpose for those who share Lance's faith, but it's also obviously a marketing strategy. When the Dodgers had functions that featured Shawn Green based solely on his Jewish faith, they were trying to drawn fans who might be more interested in/curious about the common shared experience, even if they weren't baseball fans. Same in this situation.

I knew a Jewish family in Austin who began following the Dodgers strictly because of Shawn Green.

[toddthebod]

Of course it has a purpose for those who share Lance's faith, but it's also obviously a marketing strategy. When the Dodgers had functions that featured Shawn Green based solely on his Jewish faith, they were trying to drawn fans who might be more interested in/curious about the common shared experience, even if they weren't baseball fans. Same in this situation.

I knew a Jewish family in Austin who began following the Dodgers strictly because of Shawn Green.

There is a huge difference in what you are talking about.  Following a player or a team because you share a common ethnic bond with that player (like many Italians became Yankees fans because of Joe Dimagio) is common. 

A lot of stadiums have ethnic nights, whether it be Polish, Asian, East Indian, or Jewish.  I don't particularly like these events, but I understand the marketing behind it, and none of them involve "worship" of any form like this program.  Shawn Green didn't have a bar-mitzvah celebration at a Dodgers game.  No one read from the Torah at the pitchers' mound.  Organizing what amounts to a church service at MMP -- which suggests that the Astros have an "official religion" -- bothers me.

[sporadic]

Organizing what amounts to a church service at MMP -- which suggests that the Astros have an "official religion" -- bothers me.

It would only bother me if they refused to sell beer at those particular games.

[Houston]

There is a huge difference in what you are talking about.  Following a player or a team because you share a common ethnic bond with that player (like many Italians became Yankees fans because of Joe Dimagio) is common. 

A lot of stadiums have ethnic nights, whether it be Polish, Asian, East Indian, or Jewish.  I don't particularly like these events, but I understand the marketing behind it, and none of them involve "worship" of any form like this program.  Shawn Green didn't have a bar-mitzvah celebration at a Dodgers game.  No one read from the Torah at the pitchers' mound.  Organizing what amounts to a church service at MMP -- which suggests that the Astros have an "official religion" -- bothers me.

If it were DURING the game, you'd have a reason to be bothered. It's not during the game, so anybody who doesn't wish to participate doesn't have to and they won't lose anything.

Besides, the Astros are not "the state." If they wanted to have an official religion, they could. It probably wouldn't be the best thing for business because they'd lose fans like you (not to mention some players), but there's no legal reason why they couldn't do it.

[toddthebod]

If it were DURING the game, you'd have a reason to be bothered. It's not during the game, so anybody who doesn't wish to participate doesn't have to and they won't lose anything.

Besides, the Astros are not "the state." If they wanted to have an official religion, they could. It probably wouldn't be the best thing for business because they'd lose fans like you (not to mention some players), but there's no legal reason why they couldn't do it.

This has nothing to do with legality.  The Astros are a private business.  They can do what they want.  However, they are the team of the entire city of Houston and they represent people of different religous beliefs (including people who don't believe in religion at all).  Whether or not the service takes place before the game, during the game, or after the game, the Astros are sponsoring a religous service in their stadium.  And that doesn't sit particularly well with me. 

Oh, and by the way, 68% of MMP was paid for with public funds. 

[MusicMan]

Whether or not the service takes place before the game, during the game, or after the game, the Astros are sponsoring a religous service in their stadium.  And that doesn't sit particularly well with me. 

Oh, and by the way, 68% of MMP was paid for with public funds. 

OK, let me offer the counter-example.  Much of what Madonna says and does is offensive to my Catholic beliefs and upbringing.  Do I have a right to be offended that she is able to use MMPUS for her concert?

[Houston]

This has nothing to do with legality.  The Astros are a private business.  They can do what they want.  However, they are the team of the entire city of Houston and they represent people of different religous beliefs (including people who don't believe in religion at all).  Whether or not the service takes place before the game, during the game, or after the game, the Astros are sponsoring a religous service in their stadium.  And that doesn't sit particularly well with me. 

Oh, and by the way, 68% of MMP was paid for with public funds. 

It'll probably offend you even more to inform you that Easter services are held in MMP every year.

[sporadic]

OK, let me offer the counter-example.  Much of what Madonna says and does is offensive to my Catholic beliefs and upbringing.  Do I have a right to be offended that she is able to use MMPUS for her concert?

You have every right not to buy a ticket for said concert...

[ValpoCory]

A lot of stadiums have ethnic nights, whether it be Polish, Asian, East Indian, or Jewish.  I don't particularly like these events, but I understand the marketing behind it, and none of them involve "worship" of any form like this program.  Shawn Green didn't have a bar-mitzvah celebration at a Dodgers game.  No one read from the Torah at the pitchers' mound.  Organizing what amounts to a church service at MMP -- which suggests that the Astros have an "official religion" -- bothers me.

I agree, especially if the Astros rejected offers from other religions to have their own faith night.   However, I doubt the Astros would reject it if the money was right.

[JaneDoe]

You have every right not to buy a ticket for said concert...

...or said testimonial.

[JimR]

This has nothing to do with legality.  The Astros are a private business.  They can do what they want.  However, they are the team of the entire city of Houston and they represent people of different religous beliefs (including people who don't believe in religion at all).  Whether or not the service takes place before the game, during the game, or after the game, the Astros are sponsoring a religous service in their stadium.  And that doesn't sit particularly well with me. 

Oh, and by the way, 68% of MMP was paid for with public funds. 

ok, todd. your objection is noted. write Drayton a letter. even if the first amendment applied, this would be ok. only people who want to be there will.

[austro]

It'll probably offend you even more to inform you that Easter services are held in MMP every year.

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

[JaneDoe]

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

Lakewood Church isn't it?

[BudGirl]

Graduations are held there also.

If they can make money by hosting other events, why shouldn't they?

[MusicMan]

You have every right not to buy a ticket for said concert...

As Jane said... todd is clear on his right to not attend; he's objecting to the existence of the event at all.

[JimR]

As Jane said... todd is clear on his right to not attend; he's objecting to the existence of the event at all.

which is objectionable.

[Houston]

Lakewood Church isn't it?

http://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=708

[austro]

Lakewood Church isn't it?

I guess that would make sense.

[JaneDoe]

http://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=708

Thanks. 

I knew Lakewood had done it in the past, but did not realize that it had been a joint venture across denominations also.

[Bench]

This has nothing to do with legality.  The Astros are a private business.  They can do what they want.  However, they are the team of the entire city of Houston and they represent people of different religous beliefs (including people who don't believe in religion at all).  Whether or not the service takes place before the game, during the game, or after the game, the Astros are sponsoring a religous service in their stadium.  And that doesn't sit particularly well with me. 

I'm with you, Todd. That's why I'm not going to the game on Saturday.

[JimR]

I'm with you, Todd. That's why I'm not going to the game on Saturday.

maybe you are kidding but....

if your kids' school district rents a gymnasium to the Antioch Baptist Church for Sunday services, will you keep your kids out of school?

[pravata]

Hang on, is anyone just now realizing that the Astros are an overtly religious, specifically christian team?

[Bench]

maybe you are kidding but....

if your kids' school district rents a gymnasium to the Antioch Baptist Church for Sunday services, will you keep your kids out of school?

I wouldn't send my kids to school on Sundays.

I'm not saying the Astros don't have a right to have this event, nor am I saying they shouldn't. I'm not saying Berkman shouldn't be featured. It's obvisouly important to him and other folks in the community. I just don't have to go. It's not really the crowd I'm most comfortable with, so I made other plans. I'll see the good guys in person on Sunday.

[JimR]

Hang on, is anyone just now realizing that the Astros are an overtly religious, specifically christian team?

i really don't think that matters too much. religious organizations rent secular spaces all the time, including from public entities. there is nothing illegal or wrong with that. if one disapproves of the message, one does not go.

[JaneDoe]

Hang on, is anyone just now realizing that the Astros are an overtly religious, specifically christian team?

With an owner nicknamed the Baptist Grocer?  How shocking.

[jonbloozy]

Hang on, is anyone just now realizing that the Astros are an overtly religious, specifically christian team?

I find it amusing that this is the first time in this thread that someone mentioned the "c" word

[pravata]

i really don't think that matters too much. religious organizations rent secular spaces all the time, including from public entities. there is nothing illegal or wrong with that. if one disapproves of the message, one does not go.

The argument seems to be that the Astros are a quasi-governmental entity using quasi-public property to promote a particular religion.  I suppose someone could look at the licensing agreement with the HSA to discover the details.  What surprises me is that anyone is surprised by this at this late date.

[JimR]

The argument seems to be that the Astros are a quasi-governmental entity using quasi-public property to promote a particular religion.  I suppose someone could look at the licensing agreement with the HSA to discover the details.  What surprises me is that anyone is surprised by this at this late date.

it can be 1000% public, and this would be ok. there are church services every weekend in ISD buildings. if those buildings are used for other community purposes, the Constitution REQUIRES that churches be allowed to use them too.

[pravata]

I find it amusing that this is the first time in this thread that someone mentioned the "c" word

Ken Hoffman wrote that many people have faith in the Astros but it's non-denominational.  Of course the problem, as stated, is that only one religion is being promoted at this event.  The remedy would be either a series of faith events or just one big one where all faiths are represented.  You wouldn't see Lance at one of those though, he thinks there's too much tolerance already.   I wouldn't leave the place until the representation of Ganesh entered the building.

[ValpoCory]

if those buildings are used for other community purposes, the Constitution REQUIRES that churches be allowed to use them too.

But not the Boy Scouts.

[ValpoCory]

The remedy would be either a series of faith events or just one big one where all faiths are represented.

Exactly. 

[BudGirl]

Ken Hoffman wrote that many people have faith in the Astros but it's non-denominational.  Of course the problem, as stated, is that only one religion is being promoted at this event.  The remedy would be either a series of faith events or just one big one where all faiths are represented.  You wouldn't see Lance at one of those though, he thinks there's too much tolerance already.   I wouldn't leave the place until the representation of Ganesh entered the building.

do any of the other religions want to do the same?

[pravata]

do any of the other religions want to do the same?

I don't think Buddhist go in for that kind of schtick.

[subnuclear]

Isn't what used to be the Summit used as a church now?  Is the building still owned by the city?

[Lurch]

The remedy would be either a series of faith events or just one big one where all faiths are represented. 

I'm confident that if any other religious group approached the Astros with a similar proposal, they would be accommodated.  

[Astroholic]

Isn't what used to be the Summit used as a church now?  Is the building still owned by the city?

I don't think so.  I am pretty sure that Osteen bought it.  Probably got a sweet deal however.

[jonbloozy]

It'd be interesting to see if another Astro was as open about their faith as Lance and not a Christian, if they'd receive the same response.  Khalil Greene of the Padres is Bahá'í and isn't afraid to talk about it.  Obviously, the Bahá'í Faith isn't on the same level of acceptance as Christianity, but San Diegans have embraced Khalil.  His character and demeanor (when he's not beating up ice chests) has probably opened some minds about the religion.  While he doesn't strike me as particularly preachy, he isn't shy about his faith either.  

Christians are everywhere and I don't have a problem with a "faith" night, as long as those with different beliefs have the same opportunity the Christians do.  Would a non-Christian faith night (in Houston) have the same turnout?  Probably not, players with different beliefs should have the same opportunity as Lance.

[pravata]

I don't think so.  I am pretty sure that Osteen bought it.  Probably got a sweet deal however.

They did buy the Summit.

[jonbloozy]

Isn't what used to be the Summit used as a church now?  Is the building still owned by the city?

Link

The church is spending $75 million to renovate the arena and add a five-story building on its eastern side with more than 200,000 square feet of classrooms and television production offices and will pay $11.8 million in rent in advance for the first 30 years.

[Limey]

As the board's resident tin foil hat-wearing, bleeding heart liberal, I would like to state for the record that this does no bother me one iota.

Changing the 7th inning stretch to the 7th inning kneel, however, would have me punching speed dial for the ACLU.

[Limey]

I don't think so.  I am pretty sure that Osteen bought it.  Probably got a sweet deal however.

Does that mean the building is now exempt from property taxes?

[toddthebod]

The argument seems to be that the Astros are a quasi-governmental entity using quasi-public property to promote a particular religion.  I suppose someone could look at the licensing agreement with the HSA to discover the details.  What surprises me is that anyone is surprised by this at this late date.

Truth be told, I didn't know about this "Faith & Family" event until about a week ago, when the Astros announcers started saying "come here Lance's testimony" during the broadcasts.  It bothers me that the team is promoting a religous service, with a player taking a lead role in that service.  The name of the event bothers me.  Like it can't be a "family" event unless faith -- an in particular Christian faith -- is being promoted.

It's not a legal issue for me.  I would just prefer that the "team" leave religion out of it.  I know that a lot of the players on this team are devout Christians and the owner as well.  But there is a difference in my mind between private player only prayer meetings and gigantic publicly promoted events.  And I would be just as unhappy if they did a gigantic multi-religion day with Ganesh, Buddah, Alah, Jesus, and anyone else.   (In fact, a day like that would make me more unhappy because those kind of events tend to trivialize religous beliefs even more.)

And I didn't know about the Easter services, but the fact that there was a religous service in the stadium doesn't bother me.  Because that was just renting out the building to a group.  If course, if my memory is wrong -- and the Astros were promoting the event and players were speaking, I would have been upset at that as well.

Again, it's not a legal issue.  My ealier point about the public funding for the stadium was not to say that because the stadium is publicly funded, a religous event cannot take place there.  It was just to point out that, contary to what a previous poster said, MMP is not entirely a private venture.  

But as Jim said (and I don't quote him often), I have noted my objection.   And now I'm moving on.  

[MusicMan]

Changing the 7th inning stretch to the 7th inning kneel, however, would have me punching speed dial for the ACLU.

Wouldn't that depend on who's kneeling?

[MRaup]

 Would a non-Christian faith night (in Houston) have the same turnout?  Probably not, players with different beliefs should have the same opportunity as Lance.

Show me one shred of evidence that leads you to believe that.

[Bench]

Show me one shred of evidence that leads you to believe that.

Houston's demographics?

[chuck]

Ken Hoffman wrote that many people have faith in the Astros but it's non-denominational.

So while you're (reasonably) ignoring Dick Justice you're reading Ken Hoffman? I'm all kinds of confused.

[jonbloozy]

Show me one shred of evidence that leads you to believe that.

That's really just my opinion, but, like Bench notes, it's based on the demographics.

There's plenty more info here.

[Taras Bulba]

That's really just my opinion, but, like Bench notes, it's based on the demographics.

There's plenty more info here.

When those demographics start putting their asses in seats, the Grocer will be all over them. 

[BudGirl]

When those demographics start putting their asses in seats, the Grocer will be all over them. 

maybe if he showed he cared about them they would.

[Taras Bulba]

maybe if he showed he cared about them they would.

Really?  He doesn't show enough care?

[pravata]

So while you're (reasonably) ignoring Dick Justice you're reading Ken Hoffman? I'm all kinds of confused.

I think my attitude towards Pinwheel could be better described as dismissive.  He's hard to ignore because so many people are parroting his ravings.  I do keep track of the source.  I was looking for information on the faith event and Hoffman's quote popped up.  I don't think, generally, most people feel uncomfortable at an Astros game because of religion.   

[Limey]

Wouldn't that depend on who's kneeling?

Scotty doesn't know
That Fiona and me
Do it in my van every Sunday

She tells him she's in church
But she doesn't go
And she's on her knees...

And Scotty doesn't know!

[JimR]

That's really just my opinion, but, like Bench notes, it's based on the demographics.

There's plenty more info here.

right. never clutter up your opinions with evidence.

[JimR]

But as Jim said (and I don't quote him often),

now todd, this is something you can do for improvement. read more, quote more.

[jonbloozy]

right. never clutter up your opinions with evidence.

Did you click the link?  There's plenty of evidence that says that Houston is predominantly Christian (there's even some Methodists).  Is it that strange to think a Christian-based faith night would get a better turnout than a night for any other faith?

[Noe]

Hang on, is anyone just now realizing that the Astros are an overtly religious, specifically christian team?

That is what surprised me too.  Is it just *now* an issue?

[pravata]

Did you click the link?  There's plenty of evidence that says that Houston is predominantly Christian (there's even some Methodists).  Is it that strange to think a Christian-based faith night would get a better turnout than a night for any other faith?

I was looking at that Pew study also, and I found this quote, Rice University sociologist Stephen Klineberg, "Houston is now one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the country. ... You can't have multi-ethnic societies that aren't also multi-religious," http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5569828.html

I bet you could get 5,000 Zen Buddhists to show up at the ballpark, if the event was right.   It's just a big green field with bleachers.

[toddthebod]

now todd, this is something you can do for improvement. read more, quote more.

Quote anyone or just you?

[sporadic]

I was looking at that Pew study also, and I found this quote, Rice University sociologist Stephen Klineberg, "Houston is now one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the country. ... You can't have multi-ethnic societies that aren't also multi-religious," http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5569828.html

I bet you could get 5,000 Zen Buddhists to show up at the ballpark, if the event was right.   It's just a big green field with bleachers.

Now you are cooking with gas...religous diversity/tolerance night at the old ball-game.  Designated section for each religion, gates open 24 hours before game-time so all can hear each other's views and opinions!  I'm sure all would go swimmingly!

[Duke]

Now you are cooking with gas...religous diversity/tolerance night at the old ball-game.  Designated section for each religion, gates open 24 hours before game-time so all can hear each other's views and opinions!  I'm sure all would go swimmingly!

John Rocker can MC.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Now you are cooking with gas...religous diversity/tolerance night at the old ball-game.  Designated section for each religion, gates open 24 hours before game-time so all can hear each other's views and opinions!  I'm sure all would go swimmingly!

Odds are the Hindus would object to the cow-hide covered ball used in the game...just sayin', you can't please them all.

[pravata]

Odds are the Hindus would object to the cow-hide covered ball used in the game...just sayin', you can't please them all.

There has been a question on the subject of hot dogs... what, oh the vendor is... hmmm, no my mistake, the question has been withdrawn.  We'll move to the issue of the hijab and what modifications may be permissable for rally cap time?

[toddthebod]

There has been a question on the subject of hot dogs... what, oh the vendor is... hmmm, no my mistake, the question has been withdrawn.  We'll move to the issue of the hijab and what modifications may be permissable for rally cap time?

Shouldn't be a problem.  I always flip my yarmulka inside out.

[rgs]

There are several hindu's at my office, and all (I think) are vegeterians.  Someone once asked them about cows, beef and such.  Their response surprised me.  They said they weren't offended by it because they weren't "Sacred Cows" like are present in India. 

So baseballs and gloves probably give no offense to them.

[MusicMan]

There is a wide variety omong individual Hindu beliefs about such things.

[jonbloozy]

New at HEB: Nolan Ryan's Guaranteed Tender Sacred Beef

[Houston]

New at HEB: Nolan Ryan's Guaranteed Tender Sacred Beef

That's not funny! 

[subnuclear]

There is a wide variety omong individual Hindu beliefs about such things.

Actually an Indian friend explained that it was pretty simple :
a) Hindus don't eat beef
b) Hindus that are of the Brahmin Caste don't eat any meat
c) Muslims don't eat pork
d) Lots of Indians don't follow the rules
e) Lots of Indians don't like the caste system, but follow the dietary standards because that's what they are used to

[The Third Man]

I am less offended by a sports team allowing a player to promote their religious beliefs at their venue than I am with the constant self-aggrandizement by players who thank God for their success in sports. As if an eternal, omniscient superbeing has some sort of vested interest in *your* success in a particular sports event. It's fucking stupid. They do this shit on award shows, too. If God really did help you get that hit, or win the Best Set Design Academy Award, where was it during the Holocaust?

[jonbloozy]

I've always wondered; when a player (like Pujols or Towles) kisses his hand and then points to the sky after a hit, does God do the same thing back?

[Taras Bulba]

I've always wondered; when a player (like Pujols or Towles) kisses his hand and then points to the sky after a hit, does God do the same thing back?

No, but He awards a mudslide to a third world nation.

[MusicMan]

I am less offended by a sports team allowing a player to promote their religious beliefs at their venue than I am with the constant self-aggrandizement by players who thank God for their success in sports. As if an eternal, omniscient superbeing has some sort of vested interest in *your* success in a particular sports event. It's fucking stupid. They do this shit on award shows, too. If God really did help you get that hit, or win the Best Set Design Academy Award, where was it during the Holocaust?

Without going too far into Spack territory - this is a serious misunderstanding of most beliefs in God.

[ybbodeus]

God gave man the free will to subvert His will.  It's really that simple, 3rd man. 

[Bench]

No, but He awards a mudslide to a third world nation.

Or California if it's a really big home run.

[pravata]

God gave man the free will to subvert His will.  It's really that simple, 3rd man. 

Everybody Loves Raymond, I hardly watched, but this was one of my favorite TV moments,

Ray: So God made us smart enough to know there's an answer, but not smart enough to figure it out?
Brad:(Look skyward incredulously) AW COME ON!

[strosrays]

Now you are cooking with gas...religous diversity/tolerance night at the old ball-game.  Designated section for each religion, gates open 24 hours before game-time so all can hear each other's views and opinions!  I'm sure all would go swimmingly!

I'm Roman Catholic, but if they have this, I am going as a Rasta.

[ValpoCory]

I've always wondered; when a player (like Pujols or Towles) kisses his hand and then points to the sky after a hit, does God do the same thing back?

That is usually either a sign of thinking about a deceased person or a sign of worship to God.

[pravata]

In celebration of Israel’s 60th anniversary, Consul General of Israel to the Southwest Asher Yarden will welcome Israel Day in conjunction with Meyerland Minyan’s Kosher Sunday at Minute Maid Park at 1:05 p.m., Sunday, Aug. 31, when the Astros play the St. Louis Cardinals.
...
"It’s important to have time for the Jewish community to get together socially,” Silverman said. “It’s a good, wholesome, affordable way for families in the community to come together. And who doesn’t like baseball?”

http://www.jhvonline.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=96&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=5170&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1291&hn=jhvonline&he=.com

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

In celebration of Israel’s 60th anniversary, Consul General of Israel to the Southwest Asher Yarden will welcome Israel Day in conjunction with Meyerland Minyan’s Kosher Sunday at Minute Maid Park at 1:05 p.m., Sunday, Aug. 31, when the Astros play the St. Louis Cardinals.
...
"It’s important to have time for the Jewish community to get together socially,” Silverman said. “It’s a good, wholesome, affordable way for families in the community to come together. And who doesn’t like baseball?”

http://www.jhvonline.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=96&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=5170&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1291&hn=jhvonline&he=.com

I can't help reading the last line of that quote in Jerry Stiller's voice.

[JimR]

In celebration of Israel’s 60th anniversary, Consul General of Israel to the Southwest Asher Yarden will welcome Israel Day in conjunction with Meyerland Minyan’s Kosher Sunday at Minute Maid Park at 1:05 p.m., Sunday, Aug. 31, when the Astros play the St. Louis Cardinals.
...
"It’s important to have time for the Jewish community to get together socially,” Silverman said. “It’s a good, wholesome, affordable way for families in the community to come together. And who doesn’t like baseball?”

http://www.jhvonline.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=96&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=5170&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1291&hn=jhvonline&he=.com

as Mel Allen used to say, "Well, how about that."

Tempest meet Teapot.

[Houston]

In celebration of Israel’s 60th anniversary, Consul General of Israel to the Southwest Asher Yarden will welcome Israel Day in conjunction with Meyerland Minyan’s Kosher Sunday at Minute Maid Park at 1:05 p.m., Sunday, Aug. 31, when the Astros play the St. Louis Cardinals.
...
"It’s important to have time for the Jewish community to get together socially,” Silverman said. “It’s a good, wholesome, affordable way for families in the community to come together. And who doesn’t like baseball?”

http://www.jhvonline.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=96&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=5170&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1291&hn=jhvonline&he=.com

I'm offended. Over what? I'll let you know when I figure it out.

[Gizzmonic]

I am less offended by a sports team allowing a player to promote their religious beliefs at their venue than I am with the constant self-aggrandizement by players who thank God for their success in sports. As if an eternal, omniscient superbeing has some sort of vested interest in *your* success in a particular sports event. It's fucking stupid. They do this shit on award shows, too. If God really did help you get that hit, or win the Best Set Design Academy Award, where was it during the Holocaust?

Reminds me of a great Evan Dorkin comic where there's a pop star at the Grammys, and he's saying the usual "I'd like to Thank God for this award."  Cut to God, who is sitting on his easy chair in the clouds, watching TV and drinking a beer.  He says "Don't thank me, kid.  I fucking hated your album."

[ybbodeus]

If they show videos of events like the Raid on Entebbe between innings, I'm in....or Koufax highlights; I'm easy.

This thing's gonna draw protests, isn't it?

[Bench]

In celebration of Israel’s 60th anniversary, Consul General of Israel to the Southwest Asher Yarden will welcome Israel Day in conjunction with Meyerland Minyan’s Kosher Sunday at Minute Maid Park at 1:05 p.m., Sunday, Aug. 31, when the Astros play the St. Louis Cardinals.
...
"It’s important to have time for the Jewish community to get together socially,” Silverman said. “It’s a good, wholesome, affordable way for families in the community to come together. And who doesn’t like baseball?”

http://www.jhvonline.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=96&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=5170&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1291&hn=jhvonline&he=.com

Now THAT'S my kind of crowd.

[Taras Bulba]

In celebration of Israel’s 60th anniversary, Consul General of Israel to the Southwest Asher Yarden will welcome Israel Day in conjunction with Meyerland Minyan’s Kosher Sunday at Minute Maid Park at 1:05 p.m., Sunday, Aug. 31, when the Astros play the St. Louis Cardinals.
...
"It’s important to have time for the Jewish community to get together socially,” Silverman said. “It’s a good, wholesome, affordable way for families in the community to come together. And who doesn’t like baseball?”

http://www.jhvonline.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=96&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=5170&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1291&hn=jhvonline&he=.com

First pitch changed to 1:59.

[ybbodeus]

Will the club temporarily suspend the sale of dairy and meat products from the same vendor stands that day?

[JimR]

Wait till you see the star on the caps.

[LonghornCDR]

Wait till you see the star on the caps.

First time I've felt compelled to nominate a POTW. 

[drew corleone]

First pitch changed to 1:59.

So will "Rastafarian Night at MMPUS" get a time change to 4:20?

[MRaup]

So will "Rastafarian Night at MMPUS" get a time change to 4:20?

And Middle Eastern Peace Night's game time will be changed to never.

[Noe]

And Middle Eastern Peace Night's game time will be changed to never.

The Nostradamus Society of America Night is scheduled, however all of his followers already know when and where so no need to announce it.

[MusicMan]

FLDS Night is on hold until the Chinese gymnastics team finishes competing.

[Arky Vaughan]

FLDS Night is on hold until the Chinese gymnastics team finishes competing.

Ding ding ding!

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

The Unitarian-Universalist Church was scheduled to have a discount one night, but then they decided everyone gets the discount.

[toddthebod]

In celebration of Israel’s 60th anniversary, Consul General of Israel to the Southwest Asher Yarden will welcome Israel Day in conjunction with Meyerland Minyan’s Kosher Sunday at Minute Maid Park at 1:05 p.m., Sunday, Aug. 31, when the Astros play the St. Louis Cardinals.
...
"It’s important to have time for the Jewish community to get together socially,” Silverman said. “It’s a good, wholesome, affordable way for families in the community to come together. And who doesn’t like baseball?”

http://www.jhvonline.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=96&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=5170&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1291&hn=jhvonline&he=.com

Aaarggghhggh.  What are they going to do . . . have a bar mitzvah at home plate?  Will Brad Ausmus finally own up to being jewish?  Or will Berkman and Blum assume the mantle since they have the most Jewish sounding names on the team. 

[NeilT]

Aaarggghhggh.  What are they going to do . . . have a bar mitzvah at home plate?  Will Brad Ausmus finally own up to being jewish?  Or will Berkman and Blum assume the mantle since they have the most Jewish sounding names on the team. 

Free circumcisions for the first 10,000 gentiles.

[Ron Brand]

Besides, who doesn't like circumcisions?

[JimR]

Better nip that idea in the bud

[MusicMan]

The "Free Astros Foreskin" giveaway to the first 10,000 fans the next day... well, that might not go over so well.

[Taras Bulba]

The "Free Astros Foreskin" giveaway to the first 10,000 fans the next day... well, that might not go over so well.

Yeah, that's scheduled to be "Philistine Night."

[Arky Vaughan]

The "Free Astros Foreskin" giveaway to the first 10,000 fans the next day... well, that might not go over so well.

Sponsored by whom?

[Jacksonian]

Sponsored by whom?

Texas Society of Anesthesiologists

[ybbodeus]

Someone within the organization's catering group needs to try to corner the local market on gefilte fish before A&B ends up ripping their heads off (no pun intended).  I'm guessing Drayton doesn't have any in his warehouse inventory.

Come to think of it, they'd best try to offer a vegetarian alternative, as folks is gettin' pickier and pickier these days.

[Arky Vaughan]

Someone within the organization's catering group needs to try to corner the local market on gefilte fish before A&B ends up ripping their heads off (no pun intended).  I'm guessing Drayton doesn't have any in his warehouse inventory.

Come to think of it, they'd best try to offer a vegetarian alternative, as folks is gettin' pickier and pickier these days.

The closest thing in Drayton's inventory is probably Del-Dixi Kosher Dills.

[Lefty]

Sponsored by whom?

Dr. Dick Chopp

[Reuben]

Find out more about our doctors...

>> Dr. Curtis Hitt
>> Dr. Richard Chopp
>> Dr. Stephen Hardeman
>> Dr. Elizabeth Houser
>> Dr. Randy Fagin
>> Dr. Bryan Kansas
>> Dr. Melody Denson

...those are all made up, aren't they?

[MRaup]

...those are all made up, aren't they?

Dr. Chopp certainly isn't. He's pretty famous around Austin.

[ybbodeus]

Seems they play the song Hava Nagila over the Minute Maid PA at least once per game; at least on the 31st we'll have a higher % of attendees who know the lyrics.

[BUWebguy]

So did anyone here attend?

[JimR]

So did anyone here attend?

attend what?

[ybbodeus]

It isn't until the 31st, Web'er.

[T. J.]

It isn't until the 31st, Web'er.

Pretty sure he was referring to the faith and family night festivities which occurred Saturday.

[ybbodeus]

E2.

[BUWebguy]

Pretty sure he was referring to the faith and family night festivities which occurred Saturday.

Bingo.