"The most overrated position in sports"

[austro]

Caple has a good article about closers. Two quotes I especially like:

Yet when Seattle was in the midst of losing 13 of 14 games in late August and early September to tumble from the wild-card lead to hopelessly out of playoff contention, Putz pitched only twice. So when the team was floundering at a make-or-break point of the season, its supposed best pitcher -- the league's alleged best reliever -- was of no help because the Mariners were not in official and proper "save situations."

That's because regardless of era, all stats point to this truth: The key is not who you have on the mound in the ninth but getting to the ninth with a lead.

[Gizzmonic]

Very compelling argument.  Which team will have the balls to try moving their closer to "fireman"?  I know the Astros did it from time to time with Lidge during their stretch runs in '04 and '05.  He was able to pitch multiple innings, and was devastingtly effective, especially in '04.  And when they weren't using Lidge, Qualls was an effective fireman as well.

[jbm]

I would be really surprised to see any manager breaking the taboo and using their best reliever for critical, non-save situations earlier in the game.  I don't follow Oakland, but don't they use Street in strictly the closers role?  Beane appears to talk about changing the paradigm, but talk seems to be about it.

[Mr. Happy]

This closer crap was one of the worst things to hit big league pitching, and it has seeped throughout baseball. Taking out a well functioning pitcher in favor of someone who may or may not be on seems insane to me.

[Bench]

Taking out a well functioning pitcher in favor of someone who may or may not be on seems insane to me.

That doesn't bother quite as much as slavishly refusing to use your best reliever in what may be the most important situation in a game.

[Mr. Happy]

That doesn't bother quite as much as slavishly refusing to use your best reliever in what may be the most important situation in a game.

That's the point that I wasn't capable at that moment of making. Thanks for the pickup.

[Russe]

I would be really surprised to see any manager breaking the taboo and using their best reliever for critical, non-save situations earlier in the game.  I don't follow Oakland, but don't they use Street in strictly the closers role?  Beane appears to talk about changing the paradigm, but talk seems to be about it.

Why would Beane want to change it? He's done a pretty good job of pulling closers out of nowhere and then spinning them for prospects or draft picks.

Also, I agree re: closers--you're sending a guy out there for one inning with a lead and no men on base. Lots of pitchers out there can get through that inning often enough to be a "good closer."

[Limey]

That doesn't bother quite as much as slavishly refusing to use your best reliever in what may be the most important situation in a game.

How often do you see the set-up man have to go through 3, 4 and 5, while the closer gets to pitch to 6, 7 and 8, and the closer gets the credit?

[JimR]

How often do you see the set-up man have to go through 3, 4 and 5, while the closer gets to pitch to 6, 7 and 8, and the closer gets the credit?

yes, i was going to say to Bench that the closer is not necessarily the best reliever. under today's system, he usually does not come in with runners on.

[MusicMan]

I would be really surprised to see any manager breaking the taboo and using their best reliever for critical, non-save situations earlier in the game.  I don't follow Oakland, but don't they use Street in strictly the closers role?  Beane appears to talk about changing the paradigm, but talk seems to be about it.

It's because the manager has to deal with the players, and players get $$$ for saves.

[bubba]

How often do you see the set-up man have to go through 3, 4 and 5, while the closer gets to pitch to 6, 7 and 8, and the closer gets the credit?


I remember this happening a lot when Dotel was setting up Wagner. 

[Mr. Happy]

How often do you see the set-up man have to go through 3, 4 and 5, while the closer gets to pitch to 6, 7 and 8, and the closer gets the credit?


I remember this happening a lot when Dotel was setting up Wagner. 

Is there an echo in here?