The deal the Astros didn't make

[BUWebguy]

Any idea who Wade was looking at here?

"In the conversations we had, the thing we were talking about today that we would have liked to have done, it would have given us a piece, a player, that could have helped us both now and in the future," Wade said, declining to identify the player. "We didn't get anything done on the player, and neither did anybody else. I think the club decided to hold on to him at the last minute."

[Hornstros]

Any idea who Wade was looking at here?

Jason Lane?

[moriartp]

Gerald Laird would make sense.

[Noe]

Any idea who Wade was looking at here?

"In the conversations we had, the thing we were talking about today that we would have liked to have done, it would have given us a piece, a player, that could have helped us both now and in the future," Wade said, declining to identify the player. "We didn't get anything done on the player, and neither did anybody else. I think the club decided to hold on to him at the last minute."

My guess is the same as muircheartaigh: Gerald Laird

[juliogotay]

My guess is the same as muircheartaigh: Gerald Laird

The Rangers were looking for starting pitching for Laird that could help them now in going after a playoff spot. I bet they wanted Wandy....Ryan likes him. I would venture that was too high a price for Wade. Pure speculation on my part.

[Russe]

When I first read that I thought Boof Bonser, but yeah, Laird makes much more sense.

[Noe]

The Rangers were looking for starting pitching for Laird that could help them now in going after a playoff spot. I bet they wanted Wandy....Ryan likes him. I would venture that was too high a price for Wade. Pure speculation on my part.

The Rangers sent a scout to the Reds series to take a look at somebody (Reds and Astros).  Wandy pitched the last game and didn't fair too well.  The Reds were also very hot after Laird but they were extremely hestitant to hand over young pitching as well.  My guess the Rangers wanted to center around Cueto, but the word was that the Reds thought the asking price that the Rangers put out to them was too much.

[hostros7]

The Rangers sent a scout to the Reds series to take a look at somebody (Reds and Astros).  Wandy pitched the last game and didn't fair too well.  The Reds were also very hot after Laird but they were extremely hestitant to hand over young pitching as well.  My guess the Rangers wanted to center around Cueto, but the word was that the Reds thought the asking price that the Rangers put out to them was too much.

*If* you were GM, would you have dealt Wandy for Laird?  Seems to me that starting pitching is something the squad can't part with. 

[MusicMan]

M-O-O-N, that spells "no".

[JimR]

*If* you were GM, would you have dealt Wandy for Laird?  Seems to me that starting pitching is something the squad can't part with. 

nope

[pravata]

Hunter Pence,

Wade says "...we could have traded Hunter to 100 different teams over the last couple months". 

Which means he received calls about Hunter from everyone, from the Medicine Hat Mavericks to the Binggeurae Eagles.
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080731&content_id=3231035&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[JimR]

I would love to know who was offered.

[legs_of_eggs]

I would love to know who was offered.

obviously something way not worth it

[Twoniner]

  Carrol at Baseball Prospectus reported "one of his sources"  told him the Astros inquired about Adam Dunn.   That makes zero sense to me, but something to keep in mind for the offseason.

[Jose Cruz III]

*If* you were GM, would you have dealt Wandy for Laird?  Seems to me that starting pitching is something the squad can't part with. 

I wouldn't even consider it.

[Bloony]

  Carrol at Baseball Prospectus reported "one of his sources"  told him the Astros inquired about Adam Dunn.   That makes zero sense to me, but something to keep in mind for the offseason.

Contingency plan for next season if Bourn doesn't pan out? Move Pence back to CF, Dunn to 1B or RF. It would be nice to get some lefty power back in the lineup after they lost Scott and Lamb.

[mihoba]

Contingency plan for next season if Bourn doesn't pan out? Move Pence back to CF, Dunn to 1B or RF. It would be nice to get some lefty power back in the lineup after they lost Scott and Lamb.

Terrible idea. Adam Dunn is headed for a DH position soon.

[Mr. Happy]

Contingency plan for next season if Bourn doesn't pan out? Move Pence back to CF, Dunn to 1B or RF. It would be nice to get some lefty power back in the lineup after they lost Scott and Lamb.

Have you ever watched Pence play CF? What a dumb idea. As my mother would say, it's dumb overflowing.

[Russe]

With Dunn being a free agent next year, maybe they were thinking about the draft picks he'll net when he declines arbitration.

[Bloony]

Have you ever watched Pence play CF? What a dumb idea. As my mother would say, it's dumb overflowing.

Yeah, I think he's pretty average. I'd be more worried about Dunn's defense at first in that scenario, but I think the Astros need to finally move past having 3 black holes in the lineup.

[mihoba]

Yeah, I think he's pretty average. I'd be more worried about Dunn's defense at first in that scenario, but I think the Astros need to finally move past having 3 black holes in the lineup.

Three black holes. Good grief. Read much, much more. And do us a favor and post much, much less.

[MikeyBoy]

Three black holes. Good grief. Read much, much more. And do us a favor and post much, much less.

I second that.

[Mr. Happy]

Yeah, I think he's pretty average. I'd be more worried about Dunn's defense at first in that scenario, but I think the Astros need to finally move past having 3 black holes in the lineup.

Respectfully, you and I weren't watching the same player.

[BudGirl]

Contingency plan for next season if Bourn doesn't pan out? Move Pence back to CF, Dunn to 1B or RF. It would be nice to get some lefty power back in the lineup after they lost Scott and Lamb.

pence was so good in cf last year the astros went and found a cf.  unfortnately they don't always play him.

[Bloony]

Three black holes. Good grief. Read much, much more. And do us a favor and post much, much less.

Read what? CF and catcher have been total black holes. Bourn ranks dead last in OPS among all qualified National League hitters. Towles, if he qualified would rank dead last with even worse production. Ausmus, with significant ABs at catcher in #8 slot would rank 81 out of 84.

[Bloony]

pence was so good in cf last year the astros went and found a cf.  unfortnately they don't always play him.

Bourn was so good this year that they decided to not always play him.

[BudGirl]

Bourn was so good this year that they decided to not always play him.

you missed the point that they didn't want pence in cf.

[BudGirl]

Read what? CF and catcher have been total black holes. Bourn ranks dead last in OPS among all qualified National League hitters. Towles, if he qualified would rank dead last with even worse production. Ausmus, with significant ABs at catcher in #8 slot would rank 81 out of 84.

how many teams don't have a "black hole" in the catcher spot?  seriously, i hate the same dead horse shit.

[MikeyBoy]

Read what? CF and catcher have been total black holes. Bourn ranks dead last in OPS among all qualified National League hitters. Towles, if he qualified would rank dead last with even worse production. Ausmus, with significant ABs at catcher in #8 slot would rank 81 out of 84.

You know how I know you're a dumbass?

[Bloony]

how many teams don't have a "black hole" in the catcher spot?  seriously, i hate the same dead horse shit.

Pirates, Cards, Braves, Dodgers, Phils, Mets, Nats, Giants, Cubs, Rockies, DBacks, Reds.

Towles is dead last in OPS among NL catchers.

[BudGirl]

Pirates, Cards, Braves, Dodgers, Phils, Mets, Nats, Giants, Cubs, Rockies, DBacks, Reds.

Towles is dead last in OPS among NL catchers.

towles isn't even in MLB anymore.  only 4 NL teams have a black hole at catcher?  bullshit.

what are your expectations of a catcher?

[Bloony]

you missed the point that they didn't want pence in cf.

Apparently you don't agree with the decision to not always play Bourn this season. I also disagree with a decision made by the team, that of not keeping Pence in center.

[mihoba]

Pirates, Cards, Braves, Dodgers, Phils, Mets, Nats, Giants, Cubs, Rockies, DBacks, Reds.

Towles is dead last in OPS among NL catchers.

Then my advice is don't sign any of those black holes to your fantasy club.

[BudGirl]

Apparently you don't agree with the decision to not always play Bourn this season. I also disagree with a decision made by the team, that of not keeping Pence in center.

i, of no line up making decisions, would rather see bourn (when healthy) play cf.  I want hunter no where near there. 

[Bloony]

towles isn't even in MLB anymore.  what are your expectations of a catcher?

But he still leads the team in ABs at catcher.

Depends on how the team is constructed. I think that a team with a dominant pitching staff can get away with having a couple of black holes in the lineup. (see Astros 2005) I don't think that this team can get away with that, and it's been demonstrated with the offensive performance this season. Very solid production from 1B, LF; decent from SS, 3B, 2B, RF; virtually non-existent from C and CF; 12 out of 16 in team production. I think that it's easier to upgrade non-existant production to decent production than to upgrade decent to solid. So to answer your question, my expectations would lie around the mid .600s in OPS terms, which would be about average in terms of NL catchers with significant ABs.

[Bloony]

Then my advice is don't sign any of those black holes to your fantasy club.

Haha I don't have a fantasy team. Seems boring.

[mihoba]

Read what? CF and catcher have been total black holes. Bourn ranks dead last in OPS among all qualified National League hitters.

Read about the team building strategy the Astros had in mind. Speed, up-the-middle defense, etc.

Quick question. Does OPS account for speed in any way? Defense? Baserunning?

[Bloony]

i, of no line up making decisions, would rather see bourn (when healthy) play cf.  I want hunter no where near there. 

Right I get you. Likewise, I of no defensive alignment making decisions would rather see Hunter in CF because that would also get him in the lineup at a position where his offensive skills become more valuable than at right field because of scarcity.

lineup and defensive alignment go hand in hand

[BudGirl]

But he still leads the team in ABs at catcher.

Depends on how the team is constructed. I think that a team with a dominant pitching staff can get away with having a couple of black holes in the lineup. (see Astros 2005) I don't think that this team can get away with that, and it's been demonstrated with the offensive performance this season. Very solid production from 1B, LF; decent from SS, 3B, 2B, RF; virtually non-existent from C and CF; 12 out of 16 in team production. I think that it's easier to upgrade non-existant production to decent production than to upgrade decent to solid. So to answer your question, my expectations would lie around the mid .600s in OPS terms, which would be about average in terms of NL catchers with significant ABs.

so what if he does?  i bet you were one that was glad he was starting this season because of what he did at the end of last season.  and complaining about ausmus is stupid since he catches only 1-2 games a week.

[Bloony]

Read about the team building strategy the Astros had in mind. Speed, up-the-middle defense, etc.

Quick question. Does OPS account for speed in any way? Defense? Baserunning?

Fast, great defense teams can't win if they don't score runs. I don't think the Astros planned to build an opening day roster with the 2 worst offensive regulars in the national league.

[BudGirl]

Read about the team building strategy the Astros had in mind. Speed, up-the-middle defense, etc.

Quick question. Does OPS account for speed in any way? Defense? Baserunning?

i don't think he cares about defense.

[Bloony]

so what if he does?  i bet you were one that was glad he was starting this season because of what he did at the end of last season.  and complaining about ausmus is stupid since he catches only 1-2 games a week.

You're absolutely right, I was one of those. And I was dead wrong.

Ausmus is 2nd in ABs at catcher, not that far behind Towles. Including him in discussion about production from catcher makes sense.

[BudGirl]

Fast, great defense teams can't win if they don't score runs. I don't think the Astros planned to build an opening day roster with the 2 worst offensive regulars in the national league.

i don't think the astros planned to build a roster with any of the worst offensive regulars in the NL or MLB.  some things work out some don't.

but whatever. 

BTW, if Hunter was in cf, who's rf?  then who is on your bench?

[BudGirl]

You're absolutely right, I was one of those. And I was dead wrong.

Ausmus is 2nd in ABs at catcher, not that far behind Towles. Including him in discussion about production from catcher makes sense.

you are complaining about something you wanted?  what an asshat.

[Bloony]

i don't think he cares about defense.

Not true. Shouldn't there be some sort of balancing test between defense and offense? Or is defense more important no matter what. In this case, I say sacrifice some defense in order to get two of the worst bats in the entire league out of the lineup. And it seems like that's what the Astros are doing recently.

[Bloony]

i don't think the astros planned to build a roster with any of the worst offensive regulars in the NL or MLB.  some things work out some don't.

but whatever. 

BTW, if Hunter was in cf, who's rf?  then who is on your bench?

Agreed, this clearly didn't work out. Thus my original comment about Dunn possibly being looked at for RF/1B, shifting Hunter to CF.

[Bloony]

you are complaining about something you wanted?  what an asshat.

I'm not complaining about him starting the season or playing, just saying that this construction shouldn't be continued. And it isn't.

[BudGirl]

Agreed, this clearly didn't work out. Thus my original comment about Dunn possibly being looked at for RF/1B, shifting Hunter to CF.

dunn to rf/1b???  where are you moving berkman?  why break something that is working?

[BudGirl]

I'm not complaining about him starting the season or playing, just saying that this construction shouldn't be continued. And it isn't.

you were the one using his stats, so you were complaining about him.

[Bloony]

dunn to rf/1b???  where are you moving berkman?  why break something that is working?

Not necessarily moving Berkman... if Dunn can play RF. This is all stemming from the guy that was wondering why they would look at Dunn, I was offering a possible reasoning.

[Bloony]

you were the one using his stats, so you were complaining about him.

? No I just said that this lineup isn't working, so Dunn might be good to look at. I wasn't complaining about him starting the season.

[BudGirl]

? No I just said that this lineup isn't working, so Dunn might be good to look at. I wasn't complaining about him starting the season.

you were the one saying he was horrible at ops or whatever it was.  you kept using his stats to prove some point.  you were complaining about him.

you liked what they used at the start of the season when the team was constructed, now you don't.  they have made changes to areas that needed help.  if you think adam dunn would help this team, then i think you are wrong.

[Bloony]

you were the one saying he was horrible at ops or whatever it was.  you kept using his stats to prove some point.  you were complaining about him.

you liked what they used at the start of the season when the team was constructed, now you don't.  they have made changes to areas that needed help.  if you think adam dunn would help this team, then i think you are wrong.

Somebody mentioned a rumor that the Astros were looking at Adam Dunn. Somebody else thought that this made little sense. I mentioned that it might be a good idea if they were looking at him for RF/1b, sliding Pence to CF because the lineup as constructed, with CF and C being extremely unproductive offensively, is not working. It was not a criticism of the Astros starting the season with him as catcher.

You honestly think that Adam Dunn would not help this team??? Why do you think that? (Serious questions, I would appreciate responses if you don't mind, i realize that it's late)

[BudGirl]

Somebody mentioned a rumor that the Astros were looking at Adam Dunn. Somebody else thought that this made little sense. I mentioned that it might be a good idea if they were looking at him for RF/1b, sliding Pence to CF because the lineup as constructed, with CF and C being extremely unproductive offensively, is not working. It was not a criticism of the Astros starting the season with him as catcher.

You honestly think that Adam Dunn would not help this team??? Why do you think that? (Serious questions, I would appreciate responses if you don't mind, i realize that it's late)

because the only player i could see him replacing is pence.  and i don't think it would be an upgrade over pence.

[Bloony]

because the only player i could see him replacing is pence.  and i don't think it would be an upgrade over pence.

Okay, fair enough.

[Ron Brand]

Do you really not see the train wreck OF that would be Lee, Pence and Dunn?

[Bloony]

Do you really not see the train wreck OF that would be Lee, Pence and Dunn?

I think the additional runs scored by a lineup that substituted the worst hitter in the league with one of the best would be more than the additional runs allowed by the train wreck OF.

[MRaup]

I think the additional runs scored by a lineup that substituted the worst hitter in the league with one of the best would be more than the additional runs allowed by the train wreck OF.

Aside from the fact that EVERY ball in the gap would either be a triple or a collision, yeah. That's a great point.

[Ron Brand]

I think the additional runs scored by a lineup that substituted the worst hitter in the league with one of the best would be more than the additional runs allowed by the train wreck OF.

If you're playing Strat-O-Matic, yeah, it makes sense.  If you're dealing with human beings in the real world, there are cascades of effects that would be catastrophic.  For starters, go ahead and add a run to everybody's ERA.  While you're at it, try to calculate the negative affect it would have on acquiring any pitcher who isn't trying just to hang on, because he knows that flyouts would become triples in Houston. Trading Dunn's bat for Bourn/Erstad isn't anywhere near an even swap; we've seen Pence gamely attempt to play CF in Houston and everybody knows he was way out of position.  Dunn is a poor LF, and sticking him in right further devalues your defense AND costs you his contract vs. Bourn/Erstad.  There's no way that the .300ish difference in OPS will give you enough runs to make up for what would be a painful outfield experience.

It is a mantra around here, and if you stick around you'll appreciate its truth.  Read more and post less.  There's a whole lot of folks here who have a great deal of baseball knowledge.  Take advantage of it.

[moriartp]

We'll see how that kind of experiment works out for the White Sox with Griffey manning centerfield. I wouldn't count on that trade helping their chances.

[idlelife]

We'll see how that kind of experiment works out for the White Sox with Griffey manning centerfield. I wouldn't count on that trade helping their chances.

First off, I am in no way saying I want Dunn on this team. 

I do think it's unfair to compare Griffey's move to the ChiSox with a hypothetical Dunn-to-the-Stros move.  You can't compare a .787 OPS guy (Griffey) to a .940 OPS guy (Dunn) and say they're the same thing.  So, no, I don't think anyone on this board thinks Griffey will really improve the Sox much.  I also think that is practically un-relatable to the Dunn discussion.

[mihoba]

I sure get tired of the Adam Dunn talk.

Adam Dunn is a good power hitter, period. Anything else he does on a baseball field is sub-par. He is big and slow, and as he ages he will be even slower. He has an iron glove no matter where you put him. You would think he would be ideal for 1B, but he is terrible there. He draws a good bit of walks due to his power threat, but he strikes out at a massive clip too. I've kept an eye on him for years, and he is flat out one of the worst all-around baseball players I have seen. Seriously. I am always stunned when his name appears in trade talk/FA signing scenarios.

He will be a DH soon. The Astros have absolutely no reason to even consider him. The only reason his name come up is because he was a hometown HS star, and he has hunting/fishing buddies on the team.

[JimR]

Contingency plan for next season if Bourn doesn't pan out? Move Pence back to CF, Dunn to 1B or RF. It would be nice to get some lefty power back in the lineup after they lost Scott and Lamb.

crazy.

[Bloony]

If you're playing Strat-O-Matic, yeah, it makes sense.  If you're dealing with human beings in the real world, there are cascades of effects that would be catastrophic.  For starters, go ahead and add a run to everybody's ERA.  While you're at it, try to calculate the negative affect it would have on acquiring any pitcher who isn't trying just to hang on, because he knows that flyouts would become triples in Houston. Trading Dunn's bat for Bourn/Erstad isn't anywhere near an even swap; we've seen Pence gamely attempt to play CF in Houston and everybody knows he was way out of position.  Dunn is a poor LF, and sticking him in right further devalues your defense AND costs you his contract vs. Bourn/Erstad.  There's no way that the .300ish difference in OPS will give you enough runs to make up for what would be a painful outfield experience.

It is a mantra around here, and if you stick around you'll appreciate its truth.  Read more and post less.  There's a whole lot of folks here who have a great deal of baseball knowledge.  Take advantage of it.

I think adding a run to everybody's ERA is a gross exaggeration. And maybe you're right about pitchers not liking the defense; but maybe getting solid run support would mitigate that factor in their minds. In the end, we're all just discussing what the team does. If the team goes after Dunn, it's simply not a clear cut disaster decision like you are suggesting.

[Bloony]

Aside from the fact that EVERY ball in the gap would either be a triple or a collision, yeah. That's a great point.

Come on... I'm agreeing that the outfield defense will be substantially worse, but this is hyperbole. Was every ball hit in the LC gap last season a triple or a collision??

[Mr. Happy]

Come on... I'm agreeing that the outfield defense will be substantially worse, but this is hyperbole. Was every ball hit in the LC gap last season a triple or a collision??

If you agree that the defense would be substantially worse, why persist in making the point? Pence is not a CF, period. Move on.

[Noe]

lineup and defensive alignment go hand in hand

WTF?!?!

[Noe]

Fast, great defense teams can't win if they don't score runs.

Best team in the majors: Anaheim Angels, fast great defensive team that struggle to score runs (that got better with a good bat and good defender in Mark Texiera).  You are demonstrating a huge misunderstanding of pitching and defense and how it's a symbiotic relationship.  Bad defense will make a great pitcher very mediocre.  Great defense will make a good pitcher a Cy Young candidate.

[Jose Cruz III]

Yeah, I think he's pretty average. I'd be more worried about Dunn's defense at first in that scenario, but I think the Astros need to finally move past having 3 black holes in the lineup.

Black holes in the field cost you as many games as black holes in the lineup.

[TheWizard]

Best team in the majors: Anaheim Angels, fast great defensive team that struggle to score runs (that got better with a good bat and good defender in Mark Texiera).  You are demonstrating a huge misunderstanding of pitching and defense and how it's a symbiotic relationship.  Bad defense will make a great pitcher very mediocre.  Great defense will make a good pitcher a Cy Young candidate.

Any pitcher appreciates solid middle infielders and a good CF.  Hell, they appreciate all great defensive players they have.  Like you mention, defense and pitching go hand in hand.

I don't know this for a fact, but I bet all the Astros pitchers loved AE.

[Andyzipp]

Any pitcher appreciates solid middle infielders and a good CF.  Hell, they appreciate all great defensive players they have.  Like you mention, defense and pitching go hand in hand.

I don't know this for a fact, but I bet all the Astros pitchers loved AE.

Pitchers like Pettitte, Clemens, Oswalt all loved pitching to Ausmus too.  And to this day, you'll hear callers/fans/whatevers saying that they didn't know what they were talking about.

[JimR]

I think adding a run to everybody's ERA is a gross exaggeration. And maybe you're right about pitchers not liking the defense; but maybe getting solid run support would mitigate that factor in their minds. In the end, we're all just discussing what the team does. If the team goes after Dunn, it's simply not a clear cut disaster decision like you are suggesting.

damn, you're a dumbass. why did you come back?

[MusicMan]

If you're going to go after Dunn, and ignore defense entirely, then why not just go after Manny instead?

(Oh, I forgot: free agent, check, lives in the area, check...)

[Jacksonian]

Best team in the majors: Anaheim Angels, fast great defensive team that struggle to score runs (that got better with a good bat and good defender in Mark Texiera).  You are demonstrating a huge misunderstanding of pitching and defense and how it's a symbiotic relationship.  Bad defense will make a great pitcher very mediocre.  Great defense will make a good pitcher a Cy Young candidate.

Bloony's all about the offense.  He's run down this street before in most of that draft thread starting on page 12.

[JimR]

Bloony's all about the offense.  He's run down this street before in most of that draft thread starting on page 12.

he's an obvious fantasy baseball expert.

[Jacksonian]

he's an obvious fantasy baseball expert.

When he came to this thread and spouted the Pence to center crap I remembered his work in the draft thread.  Draft Smoak move Berkman to right and Pence to center.  Brilliance.

[Noe]

When he came to this thread and spouted the Pence to center crap I remembered his work in the draft thread.  Draft Smoak move Berkman to right and Pence to center.  Brilliance.

Crap, same bad idea, different personnel.

[MusicMan]

OK, I've got it.  Sign Dunn, move him to 1b, Berkman to RF, Pence to CF, sign Manny, put him in LF, and move Lee to C.

[austro]

OK, I've got it.  Sign Dunn, move him to 1b, Berkman to RF, Pence to CF, sign Manny, put him in LF, and move Lee to C.

When El Caballo blocks the plate, nobody gets by.

[MusicMan]

When El Caballo blocks the plate, nobody gets by.

This has been proven at every postgame spread.

[Limey]

This has been proven at every postgame spread.

JD tried to cover up Kabong's lack of speed (when he got thrown at at 2nd on the shot off the wall) by saying that he might not have been hustling down to 1st.  He was hustling alright, he just wasn't moving very fast.

[Mr. Happy]

he's an obvious fantasy baseball expert.

No shit. Bloony is a bloody idiot.

[Bloony]

If you're going to go after Dunn, and ignore defense entirely, then why not just go after Manny instead?

(Oh, I forgot: free agent, check, lives in the area, check...)

And he's friends with Berkman too, isn't he? Or am I making that up?

[jonbloozy]

I dunno, but I put my money on "making it up"

[MusicMan]

And he's friends with Berkman too, isn't he? Or am I making that up?

I'm pretty sure they're in the same fantasy league.

[OregonStrosFan]

I dunno, but I put my money on "making it up"

I dunno, I see 'em talking to each other all the time on first base...

[JimR]

I dunno, I see 'em talking to each other all the time on first base...

that's nothing. Berkman talks to the bag when there is no one on.

[OregonStrosFan]

that's nothing. Berkman talks to the bag when there is no one on.

Which is in line with the gist of my original post...

[Noe]

And he's friends with Berkman too, isn't he? Or am I making that up?

Chris Sampson.

[Bloony]

Chris Sampson.

Ahh, indeed. I think I was thinking of the AS game a few years back, they showed Berkman and Dunn riding to the game together or something.

[Duman]

JD tried to cover up Kabong's lack of speed (when he got thrown at at 2nd on the shot off the wall) by saying that he might not have been hustling down to 1st.  He was hustling alright, he just wasn't moving very fast.

He runs like a water faucet. Real hard just all in one place.