Author Topic: Hawkins An Astro (Read 14308 times)

5+7 · « **on:** July 30, 2008, 07:06:17 pm »

LaTroy Hawkins to Houston in exchange for Matt Cusick, according to Bill Brown.

BizidyDizidy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2008, 07:10:25 pm »

WTF, mate.

mihoba · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2008, 07:15:23 pm »

Good grief, that is reaching Wade/Smith. A 35 year old journeyman reliever the Yankees didn't want because of his 5.71 ERA this season.

I'd rather see what Paronto can do, although he is no spring chicken either.

austro · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2008, 07:18:24 pm »

This looks pretty much like the textbook definition of "bullpen tinkering".

Towlie · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2008, 07:28:43 pm »

...we gave away Cusick for this??? Wtf.

legs_of_eggs · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2008, 07:31:33 pm »

whats the lowdown on cusick?

TheWizard · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2008, 07:41:18 pm »

Towlie · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2008, 07:43:16 pm »

sub par defensively, but has a pretty good bat. Not much power his first year but he seemed to be producing more gap hits and homers. Hes been struggling recently though...for a good two months he was hitting in the .330s but now its all the way down from that. I think he was a bit of an enigma for where they wanted him to play on the field...right Duman...Jacksonian???

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2008, 07:43:54 pm »

I like it. The team is ready for the stretch run now. Take it to the wire, baby. Never give up. What's the magic number?

CarolinaStro · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2008, 08:24:47 pm »

this so fucking crazy that it must be pure genius....time to pop another top...I wanna know which SOB sold the soul of the Astros to beat the Cards in the NLCS, cause it doesn't feel worth it right about now.

Jacksonian · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2008, 08:33:10 pm »

Quote from: Towlie on July 30, 2008, 07:43:16 pm

sub par defensively, but has a pretty good bat. Not much power his first year but he seemed to be producing more gap hits and homers. Hes been struggling recently though...for a good two months he was hitting in the .330s but now its all the way down from that. I think he was a bit of an enigma for where they wanted him to play on the field...right Duman...Jacksonian???

No loss. He wasn't going to be an everyday mlb player. Lacks speed and range so 2b wasn't a great option. Can play 3b but lacks the offensive punch from a guy playing that position. I always thought of him as a Johnny Ash type guy. He can help the minor league club he's on. This is another example, IMO, of Wade & Co. seeing little long-term value in most of Purpura's minor leaguers. If Hawkins helps bring in a playoff appearance then great. If not, this deal isn't going to hurt, at all. I don't have the chart in front of me to tell me where Hawkins was in the Elias rankings last year so I can't get a feel for if he is going to be a type-B guy this winter.

CarolinaStro · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2008, 08:36:48 pm »

Quote from: Jacksonian on July 30, 2008, 08:33:10 pm

No loss. He wasn't going to be an everyday mlb player. Lacks speed and range so 2b wasn't a great option. Can play 3b but lacks the offensive punch from a guy playing that position. I always thought of him as a Johnny Ash type guy. He can help the minor league club he's on. This is another example, IMO, of Wade & Co. seeing little long-term value in most of Purpura's minor leaguers. If Hawkins helps bring in a playoff appearance then great. If not, this deal isn't going to hurt, at all. I don't have the chart in front of me to tell me where Hawkins was in the Elias rankings last year so I can't get a feel for if he is going to be a type-B guy this winter.

He wasn't a type B last year

TheWizard · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2008, 08:45:45 pm »

Quote from: Jacksonian on July 30, 2008, 08:33:10 pm

No loss. He wasn't going to be an everyday mlb player. Lacks speed and range so 2b wasn't a great option. Can play 3b but lacks the offensive punch from a guy playing that position. I always thought of him as a Johnny Ash type guy. He can help the minor league club he's on. This is another example, IMO, of Wade & Co. seeing little long-term value in most of Purpura's minor leaguers. If Hawkins helps bring in a playoff appearance then great. If not, this deal isn't going to hurt, at all. I don't have the chart in front of me to tell me where Hawkins was in the Elias rankings last year so I can't get a feel for if he is going to be a type-B guy this winter.

It is interesting that you mention how Wade/Smith see little value in most of Purpura's minor leaguers. Most clubs have plenty of guys that will never make the big leagues, but was the Astros' minor league system that bad that so many are expendable, partly the fact that the "Astros are never sellers", or something in between? I imagine something in between?

Towlie · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2008, 08:53:34 pm »

Quote from: Jacksonian on July 30, 2008, 08:33:10 pm

No loss. He wasn't going to be an everyday mlb player. Lacks speed and range so 2b wasn't a great option. Can play 3b but lacks the offensive punch from a guy playing that position. I always thought of him as a Johnny Ash type guy. He can help the minor league club he's on. This is another example, IMO, of Wade & Co. seeing little long-term value in most of Purpura's minor leaguers. If Hawkins helps bring in a playoff appearance then great. If not, this deal isn't going to hurt, at all. I don't have the chart in front of me to tell me where Hawkins was in the Elias rankings last year so I can't get a feel for if he is going to be a type-B guy this winter.

thank you sensei, lol.

Jacksonian · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2008, 08:55:12 pm »

Quote from: TheWizard on July 30, 2008, 08:45:45 pm

It is interesting that you mention how Wade/Smith see little value in most of Purpura's minor leaguers. Most clubs have plenty of guys that will never make the big leagues, but was the Astros' minor league system that bad that so many are expendable, partly the fact that the "Astros are never sellers", or something in between? I imagine something in between?

The system is that bad because of poor drafts, plain and simple. What's Gutierrez doing for AZ? What's Patton and Costanzo doing for Baltimore? That was 3 of the top 5 prospects in the system.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2008, 08:58:39 pm »

Quote from: Jacksonian on July 30, 2008, 08:33:10 pm

I don't have the chart in front of me to tell me where Hawkins was in the Elias rankings last year so I can't get a feel for if he is going to be a type-B guy this winter.

Even if he is, I'd imagine the Astros are not going to offer him arbitration (as to try to get an extra draft pick) given that he's making $3.75 million this year (unless I'm mistaken about arbitration, i.e. they don't ever slash players salaries)...

legs_of_eggs · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2008, 12:43:23 am »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on July 30, 2008, 08:58:39 pm

Even if he is, I'd imagine the Astros are not going to offer him arbitration (as to try to get an extra draft pick) given that he's making $3.75 million this year (unless I'm mistaken about arbitration, i.e. they don't ever slash players salaries)...

If anything the moves means Brocail won't pitch 100 innings this year

Lumpus · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2008, 08:12:01 am »

WTF? Trading one of the few legitimate prospects that we have for a pitcher that we could have picked up for free in just a few more days off of the waiver wire?

I just don't understand this bonehead trade at all.

Jacksonian · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2008, 08:40:01 am »

Quote from: Lumpus on July 31, 2008, 08:12:01 am

WTF? Trading one of the few legitimate prospects that we have for a pitcher that we could have picked up for free in just a few more days off of the waiver wire?

I just don't understand this bonehead trade at all.

Friend of Cusick?

VirtualBob · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2008, 09:05:45 am »

Quote from: Jacksonian on July 30, 2008, 08:55:12 pm

The system is that bad because of poor drafts, plain and simple. What's Gutierrez doing for AZ? What's Patton and Costanzo doing for Baltimore? That was 3 of the top 5 prospects in the system.

It really is not fair to count Costanzo for anything ... traded in and out in the off season and never really part of the system at all. The main point you make, however, is certainly valid. You could also mention the likes of Towles & Burke.

Gizzmonic · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2008, 09:21:44 am »

Oh boy! LaTroy Hawkins! Start printing those WS tickets!

JimR · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2008, 09:25:47 am »

Quote from: mihoba on July 30, 2008, 07:15:23 pm

I'd rather see what Paronto can do, although he is no spring chicken either.

not i. i've seen enough of him in RR.

Limey · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2008, 09:26:10 am »

Quote from: Sphinx Drummond on July 30, 2008, 07:43:54 pm

I like it. The team is ready for the stretch run now. Take it to the wire, baby. Never give up. What's the magic number?

~

jbm · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2008, 09:40:45 am »

I think the jury on Towles should still be out.

You could also go another year or so back and add Hirsh, Talbot and Zobrist to that list. The Astros have done a pretty good job of evaluating their guys in the minors, maybe not when they drafted them, but years later.

I don't miss Cusick, but the move does seem kind of pointless. Isn't there someone at Round Rock who could give you a 5+ ERA out of the pen, for a much cheaper price?

JimR · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2008, 09:43:21 am »

Quote from: jbm on July 31, 2008, 09:40:45 am

I think the jury on Towles should still be out.

You could also go another year or so back and add Hirsh, Talbot and Zobrist to that list. The Astros have done a pretty good job of evaluating their guys in the minors, maybe not when they drafted them, but years later.

I don't miss Cusick, but the move does seem kind of pointless. Isn't there someone at Round Rock who could give you a 5+ ERA out of the pen, for a much cheaper price?

the TV guys said the Yankees are paying his salary.

jbm · « **Reply #25 on:** July 31, 2008, 09:45:12 am »

Well, that makes more sense.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2008, 11:32:24 am »

Have they updated the home page with the headline "Hawkins trade improves Astros' playoff chances"?

Taras Bulba · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2008, 11:36:03 am »

Quote from: jbm on July 31, 2008, 09:40:45 am

I think the jury on Towles should still be out.

You could also go another year or so back and add Hirsh, Talbot and Zobrist to that list. The Astros have done a pretty good job of evaluating their guys in the minors, maybe not when they drafted them, but years later.

I don't miss Cusick, but the move does seem kind of pointless. Isn't there someone at Round Rock who could give you a 5+ ERA out of the pen, for a much cheaper price?

I'm guessing they've thought about that over cocktails maybe five or six thousand times.

farmstros · « **Reply #28 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:04:00 pm »

Just a quick thing on Cusick... the "South Atlantic League All-Star" as Mr. Justice was fixated on during his show today. This in addition to Jacksonian's assessment, to which I defer since for the most part I just see numbers. It seems Cusick made the all-star team solely based on a hot hitting April and part of May. However, since the end of May he has hit only .237, with 16 RBI and 4 Home Runs in 186 at bats. Definitely not good numbers for a third baseman.

Jacksonian · « **Reply #29 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:09:18 pm »

Quote from: farmstros on July 31, 2008, 01:04:00 pm

Just a quick thing on Cusick... the "South Atlantic League All-Star" as Mr. Justice was fixated on during his show today. This in addition to Jacksonian's assessment, to which I defer since for the most part I just see numbers. It seems Cusick made the all-star team solely based on a hot hitting April and part of May. However, since the end of May he has hit only .237, with 16 RBI and 4 Home Runs in 186 at bats. Definitely not good numbers for a third baseman.

His hitting dropped off at about the same time he moved from 2b to 3b. Doesn't mean that caused the drop but they seem to coincide. You are correct on what got him the all-star nod.

Duman · « **Reply #30 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:10:08 pm »

Here is how MILB describes Cusick in their story:

Quote

Cusick is one of those slightly undersized, gritty middle infield types. He's not blessed with the greatest tools in the world, but has a makeup that's off the charts and constantly works to improve all facets of his game. He doesn't have much power and isn't blessed with great speed, though he's used his smarts and plus instincts to go 8-for-9 in stolen-base attempts. What he does bring to the Yankees is an ability to make consistent contact -- he doesn't strike out much (43 K vs. 40 BB in 94 games) -- and get on base.

I believe the defensive change does correspond to the offensive drop. No proof just hunch.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #31 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:58:22 pm »

Quote from: Jacksonian on July 30, 2008, 08:33:10 pm

I don't have the chart in front of me to tell me where Hawkins was in the Elias rankings last year so I can't get a feel for if he is going to be a type-B guy this winter.

Hawkins was ranked 74 out of 142 relief pitcher for 2006-2007. That put him in the top 48%, but not the top 40%. Since his 2007 was pretty good, he may still have a shot, even though his 2008 numbers are unspectactular.

GreatBagwellsBeard · « **Reply #32 on:** July 31, 2008, 02:48:25 pm »

Since the stated goal (by Wade) was to bring in someone who could pitch enough innings to ensure that Brocail's arm doesn't come flying off, I'd say they've met their goal. Hawkins doesn't even have to be lights out, just an innings guy; which is probably just as well, because he looks to be about as effective as Brocail has been. (Which is not meant as a dig on Doug, just that he's doing the best with what's he's got left in the tank)

Limey · « **Reply #33 on:** July 31, 2008, 02:51:02 pm »

Quote from: Duman on July 31, 2008, 01:10:08 pm

I believe the defensive change does correspond to the offensive drop. No proof just hunch.

You think that he's trying to hit like a third-baseman, instead of just trying to hit?

Duman · « **Reply #34 on:** July 31, 2008, 03:19:45 pm »

Quote from: Limey on July 31, 2008, 02:51:02 pm

You think that he's trying to hit like a third-baseman, instead of just trying to hit?

I think he is thinking about being a 3rd baseman and not a hitter. It will be interesting to see what the Yanks do with him.

farmstros · « **Reply #35 on:** August 01, 2008, 08:37:57 am »

I appreciate the assessments of Cusick. Listening to the ratings-seeking media here in Houston, I was starting to think he was Babe Ruth or at least Joe Morgan come again.

pravata · « **Reply #36 on:** August 01, 2008, 09:29:55 am »

Quote from: farmstros on August 01, 2008, 08:37:57 am

I appreciate the assessments of Cusick. Listening to the ratings-seeking media here in Houston, I was starting to think he was Babe Ruth or at least Joe Morgan come again.

The same people who said that the Astros minor league teams were the worst in the majors and that they had no prospects?

matadorph · « **Reply #37 on:** August 01, 2008, 02:54:56 pm »

Quote from: pravata on August 01, 2008, 09:29:55 am

The same people who said that the Astros minor league teams were the worst in the majors and that they had no prospects?

Or the people who said the Astros don't like African-Americans and don't like to draft anyone from the Houston area...

Or Drayton's cheap...

Or Ensburke never got a chance to prove hisself....

Or Tejada's defense is lacking...

Or Lidge is toast let's trade him for a bag of balls...

Fucking morons.

hostros7 · « **Reply #38 on:** August 01, 2008, 03:07:08 pm »

Quote from: matadorph on August 01, 2008, 02:54:56 pm

Or Lidge is toast let's trade him for a bag of balls...

Fucking morons.

Bourn and Geary aren't a "bag of balls," IMO. If Lidge had had the year last year he is having this one, the team would have received more in exchange. Would Lidge have had such a season with the fucking morons booing every time someone got on base? I don't know. Would it be better if the Astros who had an owner who wasn't so sensitive to the fucking morons? definitely.

matadorph · « **Reply #39 on:** August 01, 2008, 03:08:47 pm »

Quote from: hostros7 on August 01, 2008, 03:07:08 pm

Bourn and Geary aren't a "bag of balls," IMO.

agreed, and I certainly didn't mean to imply otherwise.

coop · « **Reply #40 on:** August 02, 2008, 10:47:08 am »

Quote from: hostros7 on August 01, 2008, 03:07:08 pm

If Lidge had had the year last year he is having this one, the team would have received more in exchange.

If Lidge had the year last year that he is having this season, he would likely still be an Astro.

Regardless, I am happy for Lidge that he having a great season as he both deserves it and is a class act.

Geary has been better than expected and I think Bourn will get better and become a pretty decent centerfielder if Coop starts showing a bit more patience.