Looking ahead.

[Jose Cruz III]

This is a list of the starting pitchers available on the market this winter. My opinion is that you can take Penny and Lackey off of the list because surely their teams will pick up their options.

Starting pitchers
Jeremy Affeldt (30)
Tony Armas Jr. (31)
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Ryan Dempster (32)
Chad Durbin (31)
Josh Fogg (32)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Jon Lieber (39)
Esteban Loaiza (37) - $7.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.375MM buyout
Braden Looper (34)
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $1.5MM buyout
Mike Mussina (40)
Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for '09 with a $1.95MM buyout
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
C.C. Sabathia (28)
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42) - $12MM club option for '09
Brett Tomko (36)
Josh Towers (32)
Steve Trachsel (38)
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option
Kip Wells (32)
Woody Williams (42)
Randy Wolf (32)

The rest of the FA's to be can be found at this link. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/2009-mlb-free-a.html

[austro]

Overall, that's a pretty uninspiring group.

[Andyzipp]

So let's say you make a run at Garland and Sheets, and add them to Oswalt and Hernandez. 

Is starting pitching really your problem at that point?

[sporadic]

Overall, that's a pretty uninspiring group.

except for Sheets and Sabathia, of course...but it will more than likely cost a fortune to obtail either of them considering the class they are in

[Taras Bulba]

So let's say you make a run at Garland and Sheets, and add them to Oswalt and Hernandez. 

Is starting pitching really your problem at that point?

Berkman was in full tilt lobbying mode on Sheets last night.  Lots of heavy petting.

[Andyzipp]

Berkman was in full tilt lobbying mode on Sheets last night.  Lots of heavy petting.

Berkman was probably talking to him about how spicy the food is in Louisiana, and how WALL*E was really underrated.

[homer]

So let's say you make a run at Garland and Sheets, and add them to Oswalt and Hernandez. 

Is starting pitching really your problem at that point?

What about the pen?

And Lowe would be a good addition, perhaps in place of Hernandez.

[Taras Bulba]

Overall, that's a pretty uninspiring group.

It's a painful reminder of the value of growing your own talent.

[hostros7]

Any team that has Sheets and Oswalt at the top of the rotation with some guys who can eat innings behind doesn't have rotation that can't win them an NL pennant.  Can one put the likelihood of obtaining Sheets and Garland over 10%  That may be high, IMO.

[BudGirl]

Berkman was in full tilt lobbying mode on Sheets last night.  Lots of heavy petting.

I saw that also.  Work it baby.

[Andyzipp]

What about the pen?

And Lowe would be a good addition, perhaps in place of Hernandez.

I think chances are good that Sheets buys a ranch somewhere in the area, if he doesn't already own one, and that you add someone who can eat innings.

The group listed by the OP is only uninspiring in that there aren't 40 1 or 2 type starters available.  The Astros don't need 5 aces.  They need competent starting pitching 4 out of 5 nights.

[Kent's Moustache]

So let's say you make a run at Garland and Sheets, and add them to Oswalt and Hernandez. 

Is starting pitching really your problem at that point?

Maybe tap the brake a little on Garland.  If he were pitching for any team lesser than the Angels, his name would sound a lot more like Gil Meche.

[ValpoCory]

I wonder how fast the Yankees will be exercising Pavano's buyout.

[Gizzmonic]

Maybe tap the brake a little on Garland.  If he were pitching for any team lesser than the Angels, his name would sound a lot more like Gil Meche.

I like Jon Garland.  I think the Astros do too, considering they went after him in the off-season a couple of years ago.  I think he's a number 3, but I wouldn't mind if they brought him in.  Of course, they would have to spend an insane amount of money, but that's true of any FA in these crazy days in the waning years of the first decade of the new millenium in the 21st century.

[Andyzipp]

Maybe tap the brake a little on Garland.  If he were pitching for any team lesser than the Angels, his name would sound a lot more like Gil Meche.

Depends on what you pay for him and what you expect from him.

A guy who had completed 190+ innings every full year of his career would make him attractive to the Astros.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Maybe tap the brake a little on Garland.  If he were pitching for any team lesser than the Angels, his name would sound a lot more like Gil Meche.

I'd take Gil Meche in a heartbeat.... I'm not kidding.

But if Sheets is out of reach, someone like Garland and then maybe Wolf would be an outstanding off-season.  I'd be ecstatic about Sheets and happy with Garland, if I were GM. 

The big knock on Sheets is he's injury prone.  But he also tends to go late into games.  There's no telling what happens if he is only needed to go 6 innings instead of being the MAN, who has to spare the bullpen because the rest of the rotation doesn't go more than 5, i.e. Roy Oswalt (who may not be a bad comparison given his groin/hip issues over the years). 

eta: Roy's arguably best years had him followed by Clemens and Pettitte.  I suspect that freed him to be more aggressive, which appears to suit him more, versus the "innings eater" strategy where he tries to save the bullpen. 

[MikeyBoy]

The group listed by the OP is only uninspiring in that there aren't 40 1 or 2 type starters available.  The Astros don't need 5 aces.  They need competent starting pitching 4 out of 5 nights.

Spot on. If the team option isn't picked up on Lackey, he would look real nice in the bloodnmud.

[Limey]

So let's say you make a run at Garland and Sheets...

Are you building a team or shopping at Bed, Bath and Beyond?

[austro]

The group listed by the OP is only uninspiring in that there aren't 40 1 or 2 type starters available.  The Astros don't need 5 aces.  They need competent starting pitching 4 out of 5 nights.

Oh, there's definitely half a dozen pitchers in there that could help the Astros out. The problem I see is that that half dozen plus a handful of others will be the targets of about 20 teams. I'm afraid they're going to get very expensive, and not just for a one-year contract. There's a definite risk of them turning into three-year or four-year albatrosses.

[MusicMan]

Spot on. If the team option isn't picked up on Lackey, he would look real nice in the bloodnmud.

The Angels would only buy out that option if his arm fell off.  (See: Mulder, Mark.)

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I think chances are good that Sheets buys a ranch somewhere in the area, if he doesn't already own one, and that you add someone who can eat innings.

He's already got that hunting lease that he, Peavy, and Roy own together.  It ain't a ranch, but it's close enough.  Plus, he's a Louisiana boy, and one of his high school buddies (Steve Novack) plays for the Rockets.  I'm not trying to be pie-in-the-sky, but this guy looks like he's right in Drayton's wheelhouse.

[Taras Bulba]

Point of order: it's not a lease if you own it.

[hostros7]

I'm afraid they're going to get very expensive, and not just for a one-year contract. There's a definite risk of them turning into three-year or four-year albatrosses.

Injury prone or not Sheets is going to get pay-ed, and he is going to get a contract longer than 3 years if he stays healthy for the rest of this season. 

[jbm]

If the Astros signed a type A guy, and their first draft pick is pretty high, say top 10 or so, is that pick still the Astros or would it become a compensatory pick to the other team?

[MusicMan]

If the Astros signed a type A guy, and their first draft pick is pretty high, say top 10 or so, is that pick still the Astros or would it become a compensatory pick to the other team?

Picks in the top 15 are protected.  They would lose their second round pick instead.

[Jacksonian]

Picks in the top 15 are protected.  They would lose their second round pick instead.

which would be utterly worth it for Sheets if he's healthy.

[Jacksonian]

Injury prone or not Sheets is going to get pay-ed, and he is going to get a contract longer than 3 years if he stays healthy for the rest of this season. 

I'm inclined to think Drayton will open the checkbook for Sheets and be a competitive bidder.

[MusicMan]

Goes without saying.  "If he's healthy" is a big if, though.

[Limey]

Goes without saying.  "If he's healthy" is a big if, though.

See Pettitte, Andy.

[Astroholic]

He's already got that hunting lease that he, Peavy, and Roy own together.  It ain't a ranch, but it's close enough.  Plus, he's a Louisiana boy, and one of his high school buddies (Steve Novack) plays for the Rockets.  I'm not trying to be pie-in-the-sky, but this guy looks like he's right in Drayton's wheelhouse.

Minor point, but I think the Rockets are looking to trade Novack.

[Noe]

It takes two to tango when it comes to Free Agency.  (see: Why he won't become an Astro, Andy Pettitte:).  The question about any list is this: how interested in Houston is the Free Agent?  The question is never about how much Drayton McLane is willing to spend (see: Beltran, Carlos or Lee, Carlos or Kent, Jeff or Clemens, Roger or even Pettitte, Andy).

So who on the list that is a pitcher might be interested in Houston?  Well, some will and some won't.  Some because of geography, some because of friendships on the team, some because of money and some because they feel the offense and defense behind them will allow for good things, including a chance to go to the World Series.  One thing: veteran free agents do cast a jaundice eye on teams that rely on too many young prospects.  Remember, potential only means you haven't done anything yet.  So there is a difference for a Free Agent between a good young team with potential and a good mix of veterans and youngsters with a rock solid core of players who are the primary contributors to success or even failure on a team.

For example: Lance Berkman, Roy Oswalt, Jose Valverde and Carlos Lee would be seen by a potential free agent as a good thing.  JR Towles and Michael Bourn perhaps not so much (unless Cooper decides to let those guys play more and reach more of their potential).    If the team relies on Darrin Erstad to start more, they may save some of this season, but what Free Agent is going to look at that as a good thing that a veteran like Erstad instead of a young player like Bourn performed best?  BTW - I think Houston needs a catcher from the free agent pool as well, one that is a respected and well liked... but that's just my opinion.  Nothing better to lure a good FA pitcher than a rock solid receiver on the team.  Just saying.

So who comes here next year is not predicated on McLane spending, he will.  It is predicated on the free agents view of the team and what changes they can reasonably make (veteran frontline catcher?), what progress young players make from here on out (Towles maybe, Pence and Bourn, a return of Paulino maybe) and what they think about living in Houston for a while.

I think Houston has a chance to lure good FA pitchers, but it sure would help if guys like Towles, Bourn and Pence prove they can play *consistently* in the majors and Houston wouldn't have so much of a reliance on guys like Miguel Tejada overall.

[jonbloozy]

I thought it took more than two to tango (or something like that)

[Noe]

I thought it took more than two to tango (or something like that)

That's your problem Moriarity, you "thought"!

[HudsonHawk]

If the Astros want him, Sheets is theirs for the taking.  They don't even have to be high bidder, just competitive.

[Reuben]

If the Astros want him, Sheets is theirs for the taking.  They don't even have to be high bidder, just competitive.

You ain't messin' with us, is you?

[Astroholic]

If the Astros want him, Sheets is theirs for the taking.  They don't even have to be high bidder, just competitive.

And in the last minute some damn town with better public schools will swoop in and steal him, breaking Houston fans hearts froever.

[Andyzipp]

And in the last minute some damn town with better public schools will swoop in and steal him, breaking Houston fans hearts froever.

He's from Louisiana.  Do you think a "better" school is one with a roof or a floor?

[Astroholic]

He's from Louisiana.  Do you think a "better" school is one with a roof or a floor?

Well Hambone is from FL and he liked Colorado's better.

[HudsonHawk]

Well Hambone is from FL and he liked Colorado's better.

Florida schools are better than Texas schools.  Just ask any non-lackey Bushneck.

[Andyzipp]

Florida schools are better than Texas schools.  Just ask any non-lackey Bushneck.

I went to a private school in Texas, but I would tend to agree with several parts of Florida having a better education system than Texas.  Texas can afford to make fun of the school systems in New Mexico, Mississippi, Louisiana and Arkansas.  Maybe Alabama.

[ybbodeus]

Florida schools are better than Texas schools.  Just ask any non-lackey Bushneck.

From which state?

[Astroholic]

I went to a private school in Texas, but I would tend to agree with several parts of Florida having a better education system than Texas.  Texas can afford to make fun of the school systems in New Mexico, Mississippi, Louisiana and Arkansas.  Maybe Alabama.

It really depends upon the buildup of the community.  Are Miami-Dade public schools better than HISD?  Possibly.  Are they better than CCISD, FBISD, etc.  No way in hell.


And something tells me that Mr. Hampton's kids (Or Mr. Sheets) would not be attending HISD.

Looking at this Texas is ranked 25th in the nation.  I know these studies are highly flawed, so whatever.

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm

[Andyzipp]

Some group from PSK12.com ranks public schools every year, or at least publishes them, based on test scores.

2003 is as recent as they'll give you for free...

Elementary school Florida and Texas are tied for 29th.
Middle school, Texas is 33rd, Florida is 39th

Who knows what in the hell that means, but anyway...

[BudGirl]

Some group from PSK12.com ranks public schools every year, or at least publishes them, based on test scores.

2003 is as recent as they'll give you for free...

Elementary school Florida and Texas are tied for 29th.
Middle school, Texas is 33rd, Florida is 39th

Who knows what in the hell that means, but anyway...

If you went to a public school you would know.

[Andyzipp]

If you went to a public school you would know.

If I had gone to Klein Forest, where I was districted, I would have received an inferior education to the one I actually did receive at the Catholic school.  I know this based on comparing what I was required to do versus what the kids in my neighborhood were required to do.

[subnuclear]

I went to a public HS in CFISD and have never met people who I thought had a better high school education than me.   Of course, they track people in CFISD so that makes a big difference. 

[Astroholic]

If I had gone to Klein Forest, where I was districted, I would have received an inferior education to the one I actually did receive at the Catholic school.  I know this based on comparing what I was required to do versus what the kids in my neighborhood were required to do.

Do you think your superior education helped you at aTm?  

[ybbodeus]

I went to a public HS in CFISD and have never met people who I thought had a better high school education than me.   Of course, they track people in CFISD so that makes a big difference. 

With rare exceptions, it's not the education that makes the biggest difference but rather what one does with said education. 

[JimR]

If I had gone to Klein Forest, where I was districted, I would have received an inferior education to the one I actually did receive at the Catholic school.  I know this based on comparing what I was required to do versus what the kids in my neighborhood were required to do.

fucking slide rule sizing

[subnuclear]

With rare exceptions, it's not the education that makes the biggest difference but rather what one does with said education. 

Wise words.

[Astroholic]

Wise words.

Absolutely!

[MusicMan]

If I had gone to Klein Forest, where I was districted, I would have received an inferior education to the one I actually did receive at the Catholic school. 

Fucking Klein schools.  What's that?  Oops.  Nevermind.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

If I had gone to Klein Forest, where I was districted, I would have received an inferior education to the one I actually did receive at the Catholic school.  I know this based on comparing what I was required to do versus what the kids in my neighborhood were required to do.

Tell that to the two Strake Jesuit grads (one of whom was my freshman roommate) who failed out after trying to cheat his way thru most of his classes, including an undergrad level philosophy class. 

[Andyzipp]

Do you think your superior education helped you at aTm?  

Absolutely. I was able to clep out of classes, which was a benefit.  Several of the core classes I had to take at Texas and A&M were repeats of what things that were already covered.

I was used to term papers, time management requirements, a heavy academic workload, etc. When I started at Texas, I had few problems that weren't brought on by my inherent laziness.

[BudGirl]

If I had gone to Klein Forest, where I was districted, I would have received an inferior education to the one I actually did receive at the Catholic school.  I know this based on comparing what I was required to do versus what the kids in my neighborhood were required to do.

It was a joke.

[HudsonHawk]

If I had gone to Klein Forest, where I was districted, I would have received an inferior education to the one I actually did receive at the Catholic school.  I know this based on comparing what I was required to do versus what the kids in my neighborhood were required to do.

I went to South Houston, and would argue that I received as good an education as you did at your Catholic school.  I know it was as better than my wife's who received hers at some fancy schmancy all-girls Catholic school.  However, if I had only done the minimum that was asked of me, that would not be the case.  So while I agree that the standards are higher at private schools, the education at the public school is there if you want it.

[Astroholic]

Absolutely. I was able to clep out of classes, which was a benefit.  Several of the core classes I had to take at Texas and A&M were repeats of what things that were already covered.

I was used to term papers, time management requirements, a heavy academic workload, etc. When I started at Texas, I had few problems that weren't brought on by my inherent laziness.

See, I think you probably would have developed many of those skills at the public school.  

[hostros7]

Tell that to the two Strake Jesuit grads (one of whom was my freshman roommate) who failed out after trying to cheat his way thru most of his classes, including an undergrad level philosophy class. 

I think many, but by no means a majority, of public schools in Houston and the Houston area can provide a great, top-notch education if the student is willing to challenge themselves and seek out the best teachers.  However, those students are largely rareities that would succeed in a myriad of environments.  Sadly, there are tons of schools that just suck and are underfunded.  

[Andyzipp]

fucking slide rule sizing

I'm not measuring results, I'm measuring workloads, which for kids in the same grade level, with the same general opportunities should be similar.

There are good and bad public schools (and districts) in Texas, just like anywhere else.  But Texas' public schools as a whole are at best middle of the pack.  A lot of that is the financial emphasis that our state puts on education.

[HudsonHawk]

fucking slide rule sizing

Ummmm...there's a pretty good chance that most people on this board have never even *seen* a slide rule.

[HudsonHawk]

Fucking Klein schools.  What's that?  Oops.  Nevermind.

I currently live in KISD (Klein HS to be exact), and though I don't have kids, the ones in my neighborhood appear to be pretty well educated.

[Astroholic]

I'm not measuring results, I'm measuring workloads, which for kids in the same grade level, with the same general opportunities should be similar.

There are good and bad public schools (and districts) in Texas, just like anywhere else.  But Texas' public schools as a whole are at best middle of the pack.  A lot of that is the financial emphasis that our state puts on education.

And alot of it has to do with the large cities in Texas (Houston, Dallas, Austin, SA) which create problems of there own.

[austro]

Ummmm...there's a pretty good chance that most people on this board have never even *seen* a slide rule.

Keuffel and Esser, baby.

[JimR]

Ummmm...there's a pretty good chance that most people on this board have never even *seen* a slide rule.

oh, i am sure that superior Catholic school students know what they are.

[Astroholic]

I currently live in KISD (Klein HS to be exact), and though I don't have kids, the ones in my neighborhood appear to be pretty well educated.

My daughter attends elementary school in CCISD and I will bet you that private school kids are not receiving the same level of education.  It is heads and tails above what I received as a kid in PISD.

[Andyzipp]

See, I think you probably would have developed many of those skills at the public school.  

Perhaps, but the opportunities to do those things were more plentiful at St. Pius.  In my experience, there was more individual attention, more parental involvement, more of an atmosphere condusive of successful students.  Plus, the theological education was important to me and my family.

[Andyzipp]

oh, i am sure that superior Catholic school students know what they are.

a) I never used the word "superior"
b) We were beat with slide rules all the time.  Y'know, when the priests were done molesting us.

Average household income today at the High School I went to is less than $55,000.  St. Pius was and is by no means an elitest school.  Mostly lower middle to middle class.

[Andyzipp]

I currently live in KISD (Klein HS to be exact), and though I don't have kids, the ones in my neighborhood appear to be pretty well educated.

Several of the Klein schools are very good.  Klein Forest is not one of them.

[Astroholic]

a) I never used the word "superior"

No that was me.  You did use the work inferior, so to me that means you think your Catholic school was superior.  See how my public school education mind works.

[BudGirl]

No that was me.  You did use the work inferior, so to me that means you think your Catholic school was superior.  See how my public school education mind works.

just begging for a joke that will get missed.

[Andyzipp]

No that was me.  You did use the work inferior, so to me that means you think your Catholic school was superior.  See how my public school education mind works.

For me.  Compared to the peers that I knew.  Did I use absolutes?

[Astroholic]

For me.  Compared to the peers that I knew.  Did I use absolutes?

Nope.

[Outlawscotty]

1.  You're talking years ago
2.  Private schools don't have to follow the same guidelines
3.  It's all about football

[Astroholic]

3.  It's all about football

In Texas, Florida and Louisiana.

[MusicMan]

I currently live in KISD (Klein HS to be exact), and though I don't have kids, the ones in my neighborhood appear to be pretty well educated.

It was a joke.  I'm a Klein HS product.

[ybbodeus]

In Texas, Florida and Louisiana.

Been to Alabama?  (and was there a banjo on your knee when you came back?) There's a disturbing fascination with football there that borders on denying one's own plight.

[Astroholic]

Been to Alabama?  (and was there a banjo on your knee when you came back?) There's a disturbing fascination with football there that borders on denying one's own plight.

Football is the king in the South.

[MRaup]

Football is the king in the South.

And here I thought it was chicken-fried bacon that was king of the South.

[ybbodeus]

That's what the King ate, M'er...usually with agressive helpings of honey, apple butter and gravy.

[Outlawscotty]

That's what the King ate, M'er...usually with agressive helpings of honey, apple butter and gravy.

Followed by the gout.

[Ty in Tampa]

And here I thought it was chicken-fried bacon that was king of the South.

SAAA-LUTE!

[ybbodeus]

East of the Mississippi River the country fried method is more commonly employed.  It's not quite as generous in the batter application.

DAMNIT, I'm gettin' hungry now.

[HudsonHawk]

East of the Mississippi River the country fried method is more commonly employed.  It's not quite as generous in the batter application.

DAMNIT, I'm gettin' hungry now.

There is no batter in "chicken fried".  Chicken fried means exactly like it sounds, fried like you'd fry chicken, which means dipped in milk and dusted in flour.  It's a very thin coating.  Anything with a thick ring of fried batter is not "chicken fried" anything. 

[Noe]

You ain't messin' with us, is you?

No.  He's not.

[Limey]

Ummmm...there's a pretty good chance that most people on this board have never even *seen* a slide rule.

Never head first into second base...right?

[Andyzipp]

Never head first into second base...right?

I guarantee you, that will never happen again.

[Noe]

I guarantee you, that will never happen again.

Thank you Mr. Coop!  I can sleep better now.

[ybbodeus]

There is no batter in "chicken fried".  Chicken fried means exactly like it sounds, fried like you'd fry chicken, which means dipped in milk and dusted in flour.  It's a very thin coating.  Anything with a thick ring of fried batter is not "chicken fried" anything. 

Appreciate the clarification.  And I never knew it was that simple to make fried chicken.  Previously fried chicken at our house involved a drive over to Church's and/or Popeye's.  I shall keep your instructions in mind should I ever venture into yardbird frying....we tend to grill 'em.

[HudsonHawk]

Appreciate the clarification.  And I never knew it was that simple to make fried chicken.  Previously fried chicken at our house involved a drive over to Church's and/or Popeye's.  I shall keep your instructions in mind should I ever venture into yardbird frying....we tend to grill 'em.

If you want real southern style fried chicken, soak the pieces in buttermilk overnight, then dust in flour...seasoned flour ([emeril]cause I don't know where you get your flour, but where I get mine, it don't come seasoned[/emeril])

[ybbodeus]

With five young children wanting to provide assistance, it sounds like my wife and I might need a drop cloth for the application of the flour.

[Astroholic]

With five young children wanting to provide assistance, it sounds like my wife and I might need a drop cloth for the application of the flour.

Please keep your private life behind the bedroom door.

[94CougarGrad]

With five young children wanting to provide assistance, it sounds like my wife and I might need a drop cloth for the application of the flour.

Or harnesses for the children.

[austro]

Or harnesses for the children.

Nah. Bathe the children in buttermilk...

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Hell, 5 kids helping fry chicken?  You might as well call the fire department in advance, just to give them fair warning.

[94CougarGrad]

Hell, 5 kids helping fry chicken?  You might as well call the fire department in advance, just to give them fair warning.

"Hello, HFD? I'm at the corner of Pearberry and Sumac... just follow the smoke and listen for the kids."

[ybbodeus]

"This guy walks into a bar......"

Nice string there, people.  Just a NTTAWWT posting away from the Pick Six.

[MusicMan]

If you want real southern style fried chicken, soak the pieces in buttermilk overnight, then dust in flour...seasoned flour ([emeril]cause I don't know where you get your flour, but where I get mine, it don't come seasoned[/emeril])

"Standard breading technique" [/Next Food Network Star]

[Andyzipp]

"Standard breading technique" [/Next Food Network Star]

Who would win in a fight?  The Top Chef contestants or the NFNS contestants?

[austro]

"Standard breading technique" [/Next Food Network Star]

Those folks (Flay et al) are in a world of hurt, because none of their remaining contestants is strong enough to carry a show. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

[austro]

Who would win in a fight?  The Top Chef contestants or the NFNS contestants?

I was a lot more impressed by the Top Chef contestants.

[94CougarGrad]

Who would win in a fight?  The Top Chef contestants or the NFNS contestants?

The Top Chef contestants. Some of those folks serve plenty of attitude dredged in bitterness and deep-fried in a pan of melted and overly-vented anger.

[HudsonHawk]

Those folks (Flay et al) are in a world of hurt, because none of their remaining contestants is strong enough to carry a show.

Neither is Flay, but that hasn't stopped his whiny-bitch ass from managing to be on TV for 15 years now.

[MusicMan]

Who would win in a fight?  The Top Chef contestants or the NFNS contestants?

I've never watched Top Chef, put I can't imagine them cooking worse than some of these NFNS yahoos.

[MusicMan]

Neither is Flay, but that hasn't stopped his whiny-bitch ass from managing to be on TV for 15 years now.

I ate at Mesa Grill - one of the best meals of my life.  I don't dispute his cooking chops.

[MusicMan]

Those folks (Flay et al) are in a world of hurt, because none of their remaining contestants is strong enough to carry a show. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out.

Adam would have done fine if they hadn't spent a whole series telling the world that the guy can't cook.

[HudsonHawk]

I ate at Mesa Grill - one of the best meals of my life.  I don't dispute his cooking chops.

I don't doubt his ability to cook.  It's his insufferable television persona that irritates me.

[94CougarGrad]

I ate at Mesa Grill - one of the best meals of my life.  I don't dispute his cooking chops.

The shrimp tamale was to die for.

[gleach]

Who would win in a fight?  The Top Chef contestants or the NFNS contestants?

Top Chef, hands down.  In a fight, those Top Chef..um, ladies?...would kill those princesses they have trying to cook on NFNS.

[BatGirl]

If you want real southern style fried chicken, soak the pieces in buttermilk overnight, then dust in flour...seasoned flour ([emeril]cause I don't know where you get your flour, but where I get mine, it don't come seasoned[/emeril])

what kinda oil you fryin
them chickens in over there?

[JimR]

what kinda oil you fryin
them chickens in over there?

Black Gold
Texas Tea

[Limey]

Nah. Bathe the children in buttermilk...

Baby...it's the other, other white meat.

[HudsonHawk]

what kinda oil you fryin
them chickens in over there?

Depends on how "southern" you are, but you don't fry in "oil", per se.  If you're really old school, you fry in lard.  Most nowadays use vegetable shortening.  In a cast iron skillet.

[jonbloozy]

My public/private school experience:

I attended public school (in Southern California) from K-11.  I got into some trouble after my junior year and transferred to a private Christian school as a senior.  If I were to make a broad generalization; private school kids had tougher a tougher curriculum and were more prepared for rigors of college.  I started out with an AP Calculus course and had to drop it in the first two weeks.  My public school math classes did not prepare me to keep up with the private school kids.  Even though a few teachers did not have a teaching degree, they were able to offer individualized attention to students.  In public school, it took some teachers months to learn our names.

After getting to know some of the private school kids, I was shocked at how naive and sheltered most of them were.  I remember thinking that these are smart kids, but they've got to be at least two years behind, maturity-wise.  Some of these kids became the ones that went apeshit once they went to college and had some freedom.  I witnessed a lot more racism, which I partially attributed to having only one black kid in the entire school.  I had grown-up with friends from different backgrounds and was comfortable with them.  These kids certainly saw more "difference" than most of my public school friends, who were used to diversity.  The school itself was very trusting.  I took plenty of advantage of that with forged excused absence forms and spent a good part of my senior year on the beach.  A buddy of mine was expelled for drinking at some party, based entirely on hearsay.  

Overall, it was a positive experience for me.  I was fortunate enough to have attended public school and learned there is a lot more out there than just some sheltered piece of suburbia.  It also gave me a chance to clear my head and stay out of trouble.  Had I been attending this new school my whole life, I probably wouldn't have the chance to hang out the the "wrong crowd" and fuck-up.  But I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

[Taras Bulba]

Depends on how "southern" you are, but you don't fry in "oil", per se.  If you're really old school, you fry in lard.  Most nowadays use vegetable shortening.  In a cast iron skillet.

Growing up, most of the moms in my neighborhood had a canister or jar next to the stove containing bacon grease which was used.  My aunt kept a big container of lard on the floor next to the stove.

Pig fat is a wonderful thing.

[jonbloozy]

Okay, I'm almost caught up.

Top Chef kicks NFNS's ass.  

Bobby Flay sucks as a host, but his food is delicious.  (I also like Rick Bayless a lot, same deal)

I fry my chicken with shortening and panko bread crumbs.

[HudsonHawk]

I fry my chicken with...panko bread crumbs.

You're part of the problem then, son.

[HudsonHawk]

Growing up, most of the moms in my neighborhood had a canister or jar next to the stove containing bacon grease which was used.

You mean you don't have such a container?

[ybbodeus]

Growing up, most of the moms in my neighborhood had a canister or jar next to the stove containing bacon grease which was used.  My aunt kept a big container of lard on the floor next to the stove.

Pig fat is a wonderful thing.

The healing powers of lard....

[BatGirl]

You mean you don't have such a container?

i've got one in the fridge
in the way back
we don't fry bacon very much these days
so it is highly coveted for cooking
can't imagine doing peas, beans, etc. without it

never thought about using it for chicken frying
(although it wasn't you that suggested it)
something about that doesn't sound kosher

[HudsonHawk]

i've got one in the fridge
in the way back
we don't fry bacon very much these days
so it is highly coveted for cooking
can't imagine doing peas, beans, etc. without it

never thought about using it for chicken frying
(although it wasn't you that suggested it)
something about that doesn't sound kosher

*I'd* never fry chicken in bacon grease.  Cookin my mustard greens on the other hand...

[Andyzipp]

You're correct.  The Jews would never cook that way.

[das]

Growing up, most of the moms in my neighborhood had a canister or jar next to the stove containing bacon grease which was used.  My aunt kept a big container of lard on the floor next to the stove.

Pig fat is a wonderful thing.

Bacon grease?  That's positively fantastic and I can't beleive that I have not thought of that before.  I use my bacon grease to make a breakfast gravey for grits and potatoes.  Absolutely disgusted my wife until she had her first bite.

[Taras Bulba]

Bacon grease?  That's positively fantastic and I can't beleive that I have not thought of that before.  I use my bacon grease to make a breakfast gravey for grits and potatoes.  Absolutely disgusted my wife until she had her first bite.

I'm pretty sure that bacon grease infused diet, ingestion of mosquito repellent, and weekly beatings made me what I am today.

[kevwun]

Adam would have done fine if they hadn't spent a whole series telling the world that the guy can't cook.

The two food network execs on the show are idiots.  They picked the contestants and are constantly bitching that they aren't qualified.  They need to send themselves home.

[Limey]

I don't care which reality show or which network, anyone with a fauxhawk gets voted off first if I have any say in it.  Which I don't.