Author Topic: The half way mark of the season  (Read 4816 times)

Noe

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The half way mark of the season
« on: July 01, 2008, 12:05:13 pm »
Against the BoSox on Sunday, I think the official half way mark of the season was reached.  As such, this is usually when players, organization and even fans give out either grades or an assessment of the team that is definitive.

Here is, however, what Lance Berkman says:

Quote
"It seems like it's been either feast or famine with us," Lance Berkman said. "We've had some really good stretches where we've played up to our capabilities, and we've had some stretches we'd like to forget about. I don't think at this point we've established ourselves as being either a good team or a bad team. I think this first half is inconclusive."

Is Berkman nuts (not Chacon nuts, but you know, moronic or genius nuts)?  I tried to read this many different ways: Berkman the leader, Berkman the clown, Berkman the PR guy, Berkman being Berkman.  In the end, I found myself thinking hard what he's saying and by golly... the dude just may be right.

Sorta.

Maybe.

Yeah.

The honesty is that the overall team has had some hiccups along the way that makes it hard to say "good team" or "bad team" definitively.  Pitching, however, has been about the same all year: average.  Is the pitching going to prove out to be good in the end?  Not the same pitching they have now, no it won't.  They need a infusion in the rotation and bullpen and then we can see improvement, else we can pretty much tell right now if good or bad or average applies.  I say average which is another way to say mediocre enough to not carry them to the a playoff berth.

The other stuff about the team, Berkman may be right.  Pitching?  No, I think we know what they are right now and things have to change.

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 12:21:04 pm »
At 81 games in they were the 10th worst team, by winning percentage, in baseball, same as they were at the end of last season.  Despite all of Wade's changes, the upgrades offensively, defensively, speed... 

Pitching remains the problem as you said.
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MusicMan

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 12:43:18 pm »
Pitching remains a problem, but the offense has been disappointing.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 12:44:36 pm »
Look at the bright side:  Oswalt will more than likely be better than the first half; Wandy might not be better, but he will hopefully throw more often; Backe and Moehler will probably be inconsistent, but will usually give you a chance, and sometimes sparkle; and Hernandez, who really knows, but he looked like he had pretty good stuff in his first outing, better ability than Chicon, imo.  This rotation could be part of a successful team.  

The relievers are more worrisome to me.  Geary stepping up would help a lot, and give the pen much needed depth.  

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2008, 12:47:41 pm »
Another veteran right hander in the pen, with experience closing, to play the 7th or 8th inning role, would be great. I wonder if one of those is currently looking for a job.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2008, 01:03:51 pm »
Another veteran right hander in the pen, with experience closing, to play the 7th or 8th inning role, would be great. I wonder if one of those is currently looking for a job.

Would you like that with or without fits of rage?
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2008, 01:51:39 pm »
I don't know if Backe could transition to the pen like Sampson but I don't think he's helping this team that much.  The ESPN rumors page is indicating that San Diego will make Wolf (an off-season target of Wade's) available for trade.  And then there is the interest in Garcia, although if there are positive reviews of his progress, his value will sky-rocket as almost all the teams who think they are contention for the playoffs will be after him (Philly, Mets, Cubs, Yankees come to mind).
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 01:54:30 pm »
Another veteran right hander in the pen, with experience closing, to play the 7th or 8th inning role, would be great. I wonder if one of those is currently looking for a job.


Somewhere out there, Bob Wickman just put down his plate of whale ribs and picked up a ball.

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2008, 01:56:34 pm »
I would offer Dolan and Raymond to Toronto for Ashby.  
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2008, 01:59:40 pm »

Somewhere out there, Bob Wickman just put down his plate of whale ribs and picked up a ball.

OK, "plate of whale ribs" actually made me LOL.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2008, 02:00:07 pm »
I would offer Dolan and Raymond to Toronto for Ashby.  

Drayton would veto that deal.
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Andyzipp

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2008, 02:27:27 pm »
Drayton would veto that deal.

I have been told a number of times that Do Ray are better than we've heard, and have to limit what they want to do because of Milo.

That doesn't explain road games, but I digress.

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2008, 03:05:56 pm »
I don't know if Backe could transition to the pen like Sampson but I don't think he's helping this team that much.

Speaking of Backe, how much (if anything) of his travails this year have to do with the fact that it's not even been two years since he underwent Tommy John surgery?
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2008, 03:12:33 pm »
Speaking of Backe, how much (if anything) of his travails this year have to do with the fact that it's not even been two years since he underwent Tommy John surgery?

To my untrained eye: zero.

Look, I love Backe's competitiveness, but can someone tell me a single "plus" pitch he's ever had?
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2008, 03:14:19 pm »
To my untrained eye: zero.

Look, I love Backe's competitiveness, but can someone tell me a single "plus" pitch he's ever had?

that's kinda what i have been thinking. i do not think he has been underperforming. he's been about like usual to me--some good, some not so good.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2008, 03:16:37 pm »
that's kinda what i have been thinking. i do not think he has been underperforming. he's been about like usual to me--some good, some not so good.
I think he is much better suited to be a bullpen guy.  (cough cough. .can't breathe)

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2008, 03:17:35 pm »
To my untrained eye: zero.

Look, I love Backe's competitiveness, but can someone tell me a single "plus" pitch he's ever had?

I'm no scout, but his curve is better than average.  Pretty damn good at times, sharp break and he can vary speeds well with it.  

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2008, 03:35:46 pm »
To my untrained eye: zero.

Look, I love Backe's competitiveness, but can someone tell me a single "plus" pitch he's ever had?

I find him very attractive.

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2008, 03:40:54 pm »
I find him very attractive.

Best regards,
Greg Maddox

Sniveler 1 had movement on his pitches that Backe can only dream of.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2008, 03:53:38 pm »
Ball Product wouldn't stand out so much if he was on a staff that had legit 1-2-3-4 starters ahead of him.  He would then again be a charming rustic, a battlin' and a scratchin' for a win.  You know, that good old Backe in 2004.

His dislike of Pujols gets him to a 5.

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2008, 04:01:53 pm »
Big Game Backe... Always seems to come up big in big games... Otherwise... meh.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2008, 10:13:45 pm »
I think Backe's performed a tad below reasonable expectations (if there is such a thing for someone coming off major surgery); but perhaps more troublesome than that is his inability to pitch deep into games. If he could level out into a guy that can consistently give you about 7 IP, 3-4 ER it would be a huge help and not totally out of the blue.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2008, 08:02:40 am »
I think Backe's performed a tad below reasonable expectations (if there is such a thing for someone coming off major surgery); but perhaps more troublesome than that is his inability to pitch deep into games. If he could level out into a guy that can consistently give you about 7 IP, 3-4 ER it would be a huge help and not totally out of the blue.

Backe is 30 years old, has never pitched over 150 innings in a season during his 6+ year career (his only year over 100!), and has a below league average ERA during that span.

His main claim to fame is what Mark said, he comes up big in the playoffs. And he is a good hitter for a pitcher.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2008, 08:51:24 am »
Backe is 30 years old, has never pitched over 150 innings in a season during his 6+ year career (his only year over 100!), and has a below league average ERA during that span.

His main claim to fame is what Mark said, he comes up big in the playoffs. And he is a good hitter for a pitcher.

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Andyzipp

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2008, 09:15:56 am »
I think Backe's performed a tad below reasonable expectations (if there is such a thing for someone coming off major surgery); but perhaps more troublesome than that is his inability to pitch deep into games. If he could level out into a guy that can consistently give you about 7 IP, 3-4 ER it would be a huge help and not totally out of the blue.

This is why expectations are out of whaclk.  A 7 inning, 3-4 ER run guy is just about an ace for any team in the way baseball is played in 2008.

Backe is not, and has never been, that.

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2008, 09:21:13 am »
This is why expectations are out of whaclk.  A 7 inning, 3-4 ER run guy is just about an ace for any team in the way baseball is played in 2008.

Backe is not, and has never been, that.

exactly.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2008, 11:02:58 am »
This is why expectations are out of whaclk.  A 7 inning, 3-4 ER run guy is just about an ace for any team in the way baseball is played in 2008.

Backe is not, and has never been, that.
Maybe I overstated that a tad, but someone who averages 3.5 runs per 7 innings would have a 4.50 ERA. Obviously nobody can go 7 innings every single time out, but to get there a little more often, that's more of a Livan Hernandez-type guy. Perhaps that was wishful thinking to look for that from Backe though. Right now it's hard to see the bullpen not being really worn out by August unless Runelvys and/or Backe can step up and pitch late into games.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2008, 11:17:56 am »
Maybe I overstated that a tad, but someone who averages 3.5 runs per 7 innings would have a 4.50 ERA. Obviously nobody can go 7 innings every single time out, but to get there a little more often, that's more of a Livan Hernandez-type guy. Perhaps that was wishful thinking to look for that from Backe though. Right now it's hard to see the bullpen not being really worn out by August unless Runelvys and/or Backe can step up and pitch late into games.

There are currently 67 pitchers with a sub-4.50 ERA, meaning that a guy who can go out and give you a sub-4.50 is a #2 or (hopefully) #3 guy.  Backe doesn't qualify for that definition.
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2008, 11:31:47 am »
There are currently 67 pitchers with a sub-4.50 ERA, meaning that a guy who can go out and give you a sub-4.50 is a #2 or (hopefully) #3 guy.  Backe doesn't qualify for that definition.
Backe's ERA in his Astros career is 4.58. What he's lacked is health and durability and, especially this year, stamina. I am not saying he's a #2 pitcher, he's probably more like a #4-5, but if he could take that next step and stay healthy, a #3-4-type isn't a ridiculous stretch. But as some of you are implying, that's a big IF.
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MusicMan

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2008, 11:33:39 am »
Backe was a 6-inning guy in 2005, his only healthy season.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2008, 11:35:37 am »
Painful reminder from baseball-reference.com:

Backe is 0-1 in the World Series... with an ERA of 0.00.

edit: Apparently the "L" in postseason means the team result, not individual.  Backe was not the pitcher of record in Game 4.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 11:37:37 am by MusicMan »
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Re: The half way mark of the season
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2008, 11:45:52 am »
Backe was a 6-inning guy in 2005, his only healthy season.
Right, and he pitched 149 innings. He also missed a month on the DL that year, making 25 starts total. If he stays healthy he's around 190 innings. This year, he's gone 6 or more innings in just 8 of his 17 starts. And again, I realize I'm speaking in IFs, and yeah, probably doing Backe a disservice by making him out to be something he's not.
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