One change

[MusicMan]

OK, off day topic:

You can make one change to the team.  Nothing stupid like "cancel the Lidge trade" or "Blum of CC Sabbathia".

Mine:  Bourn to #1, Pence back to #6.

[Duman]

Bring up Runelvys Hernandez for a try.

[austro]

Well, Hernandez had another of his 7 IP, 1 ER outings last night for Round Rock. I'm beginning to wonder if he hasn't earned a shot. Although, when you get down to it, he probably wouldn't fare appreciably better than Moehler, so that move wouldn't make much of a difference.

I like your suggestion. Move these guys back where they ought to be, and just sit back and let them get their reps. This season looks like toast at this point, so use it for experience.

[MikeyBoy]

Mine:  Bourn to #1, Pence back to #6.

This needs to happen, yesterday.

Mine: Send Coop to the Phil Garner's school of how-to-deal-with-the-team-during-a-losing-streak. He evidently wasn't paying attention the last few years.

[homer]

Fix Roy.

[MusicMan]

Fix Roy.

Electroshock worked before, I don't see why neutering wouldn't help now.

[Andyzipp]

Bourn
Matsui
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pence
Wigginton
Ausmus

Bring up Hernandez and sit down Backe. Or Chacon.  Or Rodriguez.  Or Moehler.

Stop making stupid declarations about "This won't happen again".  If your team isn't "showing up", that's on you as a manager, just as much as it is on the team.

[MusicMan]

I was a fan of the Coop hiring, but he seems like he's quickly losing control of himself, much less the team.

[Andyzipp]

I was a fan of the Coop hiring, but he seems like he's quickly losing control of himself, much less the team.

Me too...of course I wanted the Astros to hire Tony Pena in 2002, and then not fire Phil Garner in 2007...or Art Howe for that matter.

[I'm Richies Dad]

Tony Pena would have made a good choice.

[JimR]

Tony Pena would have made a good choice.

my friend in baseball says he is one of the worst managers of all time.

[OregonStrosFan]

Mine:  Bourn to #1, Pence back to #6.

This is currently my biggest "fixable" annoyance.  Other than that, I'd like to see Coop's communication skills improve a bit.  (See Pravata's "Great Communicator" link for an example).

[Andyzipp]

Tony Pena would have made a good choice.

Based on what, exactly?  I know you have to have players, but it's not like the Royals were a fundamentally solid team when he was the manager.

My comment was more of the what do I know variety.

[remy]

My one thing:

Ditch the god awful home pinstripe uni's.

Everything else will just fall into place after that.

[moriartp]

Hell, just ditch this uniform altogether and go back to the rainbow sleeves. Those were slick.

[Ron Brand]

Stop making stupid declarations about "This won't happen again".  If your team isn't "showing up", that's on you as a manager, just as much as it is on the team.

Thank you so much for posting this.  I was stunned that the reporters let those comments go without question.

[BudGirl]

bourn to #1 and pence to #6.

plus, stop platooning at 3rd.  leave wiggington there.

[Limey]

bourn to #1 and pence to #6.

plus, stop platooning at 3rd.  leave wiggington there.

Isn't that 3 things?

[BudGirl]

Isn't that 3 things?

Some mornings, you boys make me tired.

[JimR]

a Valium drip in the dugout for Cooper

[MRaup]

Count me in the crowd that wants Cooper to shut up. I'm sick of reading his little temper tantrums already.

[MusicMan]

Count me in the crowd that wants Cooper to shut up. I'm sick of reading his little temper tantrums already.

Who should shut up first - Coop or Roy?

[Noe]

Who should shut up first - Coop or Roy?

That's like the buttered toast strapped on the back of a cat question, isn't it?

[MRaup]

That's like the buttered toast strapped on the back of a cat question, isn't it?

Coop constantly whining to the media sends the message that its okay to bitch and moan out loud.

Granted, Roy has done it in the past anyway. But having your skipper flapping his pie hole on cable TV after every game, bemoaning how tough every loss is and how agonizing it is that his players aren't coming through is not good for the morale of the team in the short or long run.

[kevwun]

He needs to switch to cliche mode.

[Limey]

He needs to switch to cliche mode.

He neds to start chaneling Jimy.

[Noe]

Coop constantly whining to the media sends the message that its okay to bitch and moan out loud.

Granted, Roy has done it in the past anyway. But having your skipper flapping his pie hole on cable TV after every game, bemoaning how tough every loss is and how agonizing it is that his players aren't coming through is not good for the morale of the team in the short or long run.

His patented "It won't happen again, I guarantee it" must be a line from his playing days because he sure loves to say that.  Over and over again, whatever the bad situation may be.  First time I heard him say it was when Borkowski threw a slider to Micah Owings.  It was a baffling statement because it could mean anything from Cooper throwing Bork under a bus (literally) to Coop taking a saw to Bork's right arm to keep this from actually happening again.

Now, it's just something he says that means nothing.

[strosrays]

Everything said here about Cooper is pretty accurate, I think.  I am reserving judgement on him for now, though.

For all I know, he could turn out to be a pretty good manager.  I don't expect anyone, from a rookie skipper on up to John McGraw, to look very good when he has an almost non-existant starting rotation. 

Remember Dierker in 2000?  Up to then he had been a genius, bringing consecutive pennants to the city.  Then his SP evaporated and he became an idiot overnight.  My lasting memory from that wretched season is of Dierker trudging out to the mound once again to get one of his tattered, forlorn starters, then gazing dolefully out to a bullpen that contained guys like Joe Slusarski and Marc "Exxon" Valdes.

I want to know if Smith/Wade really thought they could make a go of it this season with Oswalt, even the old Oswalt, and a bunch of question marks.  And if so, what was the scenario they had in mind where it would all work out well.

[Gizzmonic]

How about some better baserunning?

Friday night was horrible.  It almost made me want to become a base-clogger loving Moneyballer.  4 stolen bases, no runs from them, plus 3 incredibly stupid and unnecessary pickoffs/CS to take the heat off of pitchers.

[ybbodeus]

Was Drayton's hiring of CC in part to appease a request from Seilig that he do so? 

[strosrays]

Was Drayton's hiring of CC in part to appease a request from Seilig that he do so? 

I think you are edging into Mr. Happy's purview here.

[kevwun]

Drayton has an itchy trigger finger when it comes to managers.  He also loves Bug Selig who is good friends with Cooper.  What will Drayton do if Cooper keeps going down the path he is on, the team struggles and the fans are screaming for blood?

[ybbodeus]

Exactly.  A damned if you do, damned if you don't dilemma could be on the horizon.

{EDIT:  I don't think they'll be screaming just yet, though; not until talk radio tells them to do so}

[jbm]

How about some better baserunning?

Friday night was horrible.  It almost made me want to become a base-clogger loving Moneyballer.  4 stolen bases, no runs from them, plus 3 incredibly stupid and unnecessary pickoffs/CS to take the heat off of pitchers.

I'm interested in seeing this play out over the course of the season.  On one hand, I've heard intelligent people state that running is an attitude, or at least requires a certain attitude.  They may be right.  On the other hand, it just seems like poor judgement to send Wigginton against a decent catcher with one out in the ninth.  

Maybe running is more than an attitude, and it actually requires good judgement and some natural speed.  

[Noe]

Was Drayton's hiring of CC in part to appease a request from Seilig that he do so? 

No.

[Noe]

Drayton has an itchy trigger finger when it comes to managers.  He also loves Bug Selig who is good friends with Cooper.  What will Drayton do if Cooper keeps going down the path he is on, the team struggles and the fans are screaming for blood?

That last part of your question... that part right there... is your answer.  Selig, Cooper, Mother Theresa... all get trumped by "fans screaming for blood" when it comes to McLane.

[pots]

Definitely flipping Pence and Bourn back.  One pitch, one out, ugh.  
Plus when Bourn is on first and Ausmus(or the pitcher) is up at the plate, the pitcher can give all his attention to Bourn and get away with it(quick slide steps to home, up and away fastballs, pitchouts, etc.).  
Bourn's presence on the basepaths hurts a whole lot more against Matsui or Tejada.  And then there is the hit and run, which works a lot better when the batter hits the ball.

[ybbodeus]

No.

Was that one of those episodes where the media put 1 and 1 together and got B?

[Noe]

Was that one of those episodes where the media put 1 and 1 together and got B?

The General Manager hires the manager, it's par for the course.  Drayton McLane doesn't hire the managers... but he'll fire them if he wants to.  Larry Dierker was McLane's idea but Hunsicker signed off on it.  Jimy Williams was hired by a committee (McLaren, Pam Gardner, Drayton McLane, Tal Smith and Gerry Hunsicker).  Phil Garner was hired by Hunsicker.  Cecil Cooper was hired by Tal Smith to be the interim and then hired to be the full time manager.  Ed Wade was not on board yet to make any hire of his own.

Stay tuned though, he may have to soon.

That Selig endorsed Cooper to McLane is a non-issue in terms of hiring a manager.  Tal Smith had the final say on that one and he went with a manager who believed in the same ideals as he, that speed and aggressive baseball makes for a better team.

[BudGirl]

Definitely flipping Pence and Bourn back.  One pitch, one out, ugh.  
Plus when Bourn is on first and Ausmus(or the pitcher) is up at the plate, the pitcher can give all his attention to Bourn and get away with it(quick slide steps to home, up and away fastballs, pitchouts, etc.).  
Bourn's presence on the basepaths hurts a whole lot more against Matsui or Tejada.  And then there is the hit and run, which works a lot better when the batter hits the ball.

Brad hits the ball, how else would have so many GIDPs?

[Andyzipp]

Drayton has an itchy trigger finger when it comes to managers.  He also loves Bug Selig who is good friends with Cooper.  What will Drayton do if Cooper keeps going down the path he is on, the team struggles and the fans are screaming for blood?

Terry Whatshisname was manager in 94, 95, 96
Larry Dierker was manager in 97, 98, 99, 00, 01
Jimy Williams was manager in 02, 03 and the first half of 04
Phil Garner was the manager in the 2nd half of 04, 05, 06 and the first 3 quarters of 07
Cecil Cooper has been the manager since then. 

Unless they absolutely tank, I think Cooper gets 3 seasons.

[kevwun]

The leash has grown shorter with each new manager.  I think it all depends on the playoffs.  I don't believe an Astros manager will be given the chance to miss 3 consecutive post seasons in the foreseeable future.  It doesn't matter if it's the managers fault.

[Noe]

The leash has grown shorter with each new manager.  I think it all depends on the playoffs.  I don't believe an Astros manager will be given the chance to miss 3 consecutive post seasons in the foreseeable future.  It doesn't matter if it's the managers fault.

I don't think that McLane has the baseball acumen to know when a manager is incompetent.  He depends on fans to tell him.  Cooper is not incompetent, he's a rookie manager making mistakes and then doing some unusually frank talk about players (who he should make allies out of) performances after defeats.

What Coop says sound pretty much like pandering to fandom, so that will keep the boos to a minimum.  But eventually he's going to have to decide what the best route to be a major league manager may be... and it's not going to be what he's doing now.

McLane won't jump in as some sort of knowledgeable baseball man and fire any one.  Not as long as the turnstiles are clicking and merchandise is selling.

[Andyzipp]

I don't think that McLane has the baseball acumen to know when a manager is incompetent.  He depends on fans to tell him.  Cooper is not incompetent, he's a rookie manager making mistakes and then doing some unusually frank talk about players (who he should make allies out of) performances after defeats.

What Coop says sound pretty much like pandering to fandom, so that will keep the boos to a minimum.  But eventually he's going to have to decide what the best route to be a major league manager may be... and it's not going to be what he's doing now.

McLane won't jump in as some sort of knowledgeable baseball man and fire any one.  Not as long as the turnstiles are clicking and merchandise is selling.

So there will no detecting of a problem until the Red Sox leave Houston...?

[Noe]

So there will no detecting of a problem until the Red Sox leave Houston...?

None whatsoever.  And don't forget that marketing induced interleague rivalry called the Silver Boot series too.  Hot sellers all.  Baseball?  What?

Now, if a fan or three... thousand... decide to boo during McLane's bonanza, there is hell to pay.  Jimy Williams, booed during the All-Star introductions.  Dead man.  Tim Purpura, booed during Jeff Bagwell's jersey retirement ceremony.   Dead Man.  So if fans start to boo Cecil Cooper at every chance during the BoSox series... and I mean directed all at Cooper, he's a goner.

[Limey]

We need a true fan as owner, like what the Mavs got when Cuban bought them.  That put Championship banners on the walls!

Eh?  Oh.

[Andyzipp]

None whatsoever.  And don't forget that marketing induced interleague rivalry called the Silver Boot series too.  Hot sellers all.  Baseball?  What?

Now, if a fan or three... thousand... decide to boo during McLane's bonanza, there is hell to pay.  Jimy Williams, booed during the All-Star introductions.  Dead man.  Tim Purpura, booed during Jeff Bagwell's jersey retirement ceremony.   Dead Man.  So if fans start to boo Cecil Cooper at every chance during the BoSox series... and I mean directed all at Cooper, he's a goner.

I anticipate that any booing that will count in Pam's Drayton's book will be in August when they retire Biggio's Jersey.  If things continue, that could potentially be the last sell-out of the season.

[Noe]

We need a true fan as owner, like what the Mavs got when Cuban bought them.  That put Championship banners on the walls!

Eh?  Oh.

A true *fan* as owner would know enough to stay out of the business of running the team.  Only an egomanical fan who believes that the game is about them will interfere.  Remember, the first years of both Ted Turner and George Steinbrenner as owners of their respective clubs were huge jokes and nothing went well during that tenure.  Steinbrenner lucked out when men like Gene Michaels put up with his crap and managed to make the Yankees better.  Same with Turner and men like Schurholtz and Cox.

McLane doesn't have to have true baseball acumen to own this team.  He needs to have trust for his baseball men to run the club and separate the business side accordingly.  The whispers and complains behind his back is that he doesn't do that very well at all.

[Noe]

I anticipate that any booing that will count in Pam's Drayton's book will be in August when they retire Biggio's Jersey.  If things continue, that could potentially be the last sell-out of the season.

The local scribes are hinting at McLane's displeasure with the lineup Cooper put out yesterday in what they said was a huge day for ka-ching (Father's Day, the Yankees, Roy Oswalt on the mound).  What I don't think they understand is that McLane doesn't know it's a problem until he's *told* it is a problem.  From either fans who write him letters ("I drove all the way from X. Texas to bring my Daddy to this game.  He loves the Astros and this was my Fathers Day gift for him.  I was shocked when Lance Berkman was not in the lineup!") or fans who come up to him in the concourse.  As it were, it's still not baseball acumen, it's marketing acumen that drives the man to react.

Cooper better watch his step if so much as one fan did pick up pen and paper or even fire up the e-mail client to write to Mr. McLane. 

[Ebby Calvin]

My one change:
I want Coop to go bat-shit crazy and start cussing like Ozzie Guillen Augie Garrido George Carlin.  I'm thrilled he's a devout and great man (really, I am), but he's a bit tame.  I mean, golly gee Mister Cooper, get angry gosh darn it!

That or throw an armful of bats into the shower and call them Lollygaggers.

Either of these suggestions would easily increase our win total by at least zero.

[Towlie]

Bourn
Matsui
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pence
Wigginton
Ausmus

Bring up Hernandez and sit down Backe. Or Chacon. Or Rodriguez.  Or Moehler.

Stop making stupid declarations about "This won't happen again".  If your team isn't "showing up", that's on you as a manager, just as much as it is on the team.

...hes been better than Roy this year.

[MusicMan]

...hes been better than Roy this year.

So has everyone in the NL not named Brett Myers.  What's your point?

[Andyzipp]

...hes been better than Roy this year.

Sure, but they're not sending Oswalt anywhere.

[DVauthrin]

cooper stops micro managing and just lets players play...

[jaklewein]

One thing?  Please, pretty fucking please...with a cherry on top...Start running Bourn back out there every night in the leadoff spot.  

[Towlie]

So has everyone in the NL not named Brett Myers.  What's your point?

I didnt think Wandy deserved to be bunched in with those others, as replaceable by Runelvys.

[DVauthrin]

One thing?  Please, pretty fucking please...with a cherry on top...Start running Bourn back out there every night in the leadoff spot.  

that is a good example of cooper over thinking and micro managing...  bourn was coming out of it, and he hits a skid when they started this wretched stretch on the road just like the whole offense, so he overreacts and makes pence something he's not(a leadoff man) and puts bourn in a poor position to succeed(batting 7th)..

[jaklewein]

that is a good example of cooper over thinking and micro managing...  bourn was coming out of it, and he hits a skid when they started this wretched stretch on the road just like the whole offense, so he overreacts and makes pence something he's not(a leadoff man) and puts bourn in a poor position to succeed(batting 7th)..

Exactly....this team was built around the idea (Cooper's idea) of the top two guys in the lineup placing pressure on the opponent and letting batters 3 through 7 drive them in.  That was happening for a while this season.   Bourn was barely batting above .200 and yet he, along with Kaz were making an impact...the very impact management hoped for prior to starting the year.  Then Coop scraps the plan...his plan...leaving his team's idenity to vanish like a fart in the wind.  W-T-F?

[Towlie]

The reason Bourn was moved down was to get him to start hitting better. He is now, it wont be long before Bourn is back in the leadoff spot.

[JimR]

The reason Bourn was moved down was to get him to start hitting better. He is now, it wont be long before Bourn is back in the leadoff spot.

oh, really? so the cure for not hitting is to move down in the batting order? fucking brilliant. write an article on this. coaches everywhere will want to know it.

[Astroholic]

oh, really? so the cure for not hitting is to move down in the batting order? fucking brilliant. write an article on this. coaches everywhere will want to know it.

So back on topic.  I would start calling around to see what the interest is in Erstad and/or Loretta.

[Andyzipp]

So back on topic.  I would start calling around to see what the interest is in Erstad and/or Loretta.

If you could get him to waive his no trade clause, you could get more for Lee, and Erstad could fill in in Left.

[Astroholic]

If you could get him to waive his no trade clause, you could get more for Lee, and Erstad could fill in in Left.

That right there is an idea.  Your in Drayton's fab five right?

[Jacksonian]

If you could get him to waive his no trade clause, you could get more for Lee, and Erstad could fill in in Left.

When does Lee's no-trade become a partial no-trade?

[Andyzipp]

When does Lee's no-trade become a partial no-trade?

I think next year, but I don't really know.

[BudGirl]

According to Cot's it's 2010.

[BizidyDizidy]

If you could get him to waive his no trade clause, you could get more for Lee, and Erstad could fill in in Left.

Of all the people on the team why would you want to get rid of Lee?

[Limey]

Of all the people on the team why would you want to get rid of Lee?

It's not "getting rid of", it's trading something of value and getting something of value back.

[BizidyDizidy]

It's not "getting rid of", it's trading something of value and getting something of value back.

I guess to me there's just a list of people who have value that I wouldn't mind getting rid of either (see Oswalt, Roy and Pence, Hunter to start).

[Limey]

I guess to me there's just a list of people who have value that I wouldn't mind getting rid of either (see Oswalt, Roy and Pence, Hunter to start).

At this point, for me, only Berkman's untouchable.  The problem is, I'm not sure who is movable given contract terms, salary vs. performance issues or just performance issues.  Maybe a Oswalt/Pence package for a shit-load of prospects.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I'm not claiming to know any more than anyone else who's outside the organization, to get that out of the way.  But from looking at the market, there is little, if any, pitching available.  So what is available is going to be very very pricey and I don't see the Astros matching up w/ any of the teams who supposedly have pitching to trade, i.e. Cleveland, maybe Seattle, maybe Detroit.  And honestly, all the pitching rumored as available is all "If this team is out of contention, they might think about trading player-x or player-y....".  In other words, it's all speculation.

This leads me to suspect that if anything, the Astros will start trotting out the young pitchers who could potentially break the majors next year, to see what they can do. 

I think Wade, potentially, could flip Tejada before he's able to trade Lee (whether that is because of the no-trade or because of the value he could garner in a trade).  Pence is an interesting idea, as they do have some outfielders in the system (none that compare to Pence just yet) but he has value and could get you something back in a trade.

Honestly, rather than blow this up just now, I'd like to see them settle on a lineup and ride it out thru the end of the season.  Damn this "win now" notion.  It turns into "never wins" eventually.

[Andyzipp]

I guess to me there's just a list of people who have value that I wouldn't mind getting rid of either (see Oswalt, Roy and Pence, Hunter to start).

It makes no sense to get rid of Pence, as he's under club control for 5(?) more years?  Not to mention, the Gardnerites are building all sorts of marketing plans around Mr. Hunter.

[JimR]

even less sense to get rid of Oswalt when the point of all this is to rebuild the pitching.

[Towlie]

oh, really? so the cure for not hitting is to move down in the batting order? fucking brilliant. write an article on this. coaches everywhere will want to know it.

Its a mental thing dude...its not that hard to realize that. Or, i guess, sports players dont have brains, its all that fast twitch muscle fiber.

And, it seems to have worked for Bourn.

[JimR]

Its a mental thing dude...its not that hard to realize that. Or, i guess, sports players dont have brains, its all that fast twitch muscle fiber.

And, it seems to have worked for Bourn.

you bet, genius. batting 7th unlocks the hitting machine. write that article. i want to read it.

[MusicMan]

even less sense to get rid of Oswalt when the point of all this is to rebuild the pitching.

If you could get 2 or 3 young pitchers for him... I'm not sure he's going to put it back together here.

[MusicMan]

Its a mental thing dude...its not that hard to realize that. Or, i guess, sports players dont have brains, its all that fast twitch muscle fiber.

And, it seems to have worked for Bourn.

Repeat after me:

Correlation does not imply causation.

[Towlie]

you bet, genius. batting 7th unlocks the hitting machine. write that article. i want to read it.

its the same mentality they are using on Towles by sending him down to RR to gain confidence (and mostly in Towles case more development). Stop being so fucking dense, please.

[MusicMan]

its the same mentality they are using on Towles by sending him down to RR to gain confidence (and mostly in Towles case more development).

Confidence <> development.  Towles had not even a cup of coffee in AAA.  He needed to learn to recognize major-league quality pitches.

Stop being so fucking dense, please.

Physician, heal thyself.

Bourn is on this team to lead off.  You don't learn that hitting 7th.

[ybbodeus]

Towlie, what you're failing to realize is that Coop was instructed by Drayton himself to move Bourn back in the lineup, simply to placate Charlie Pallilo.

[Astroholic]

Bourn is on this team to lead off.  You don't learn that hitting 7th.

Eggxtly.

[JimR]

its the same mentality they are using on Towles by sending him down to RR to gain confidence (and mostly in Towles case more development). Stop being so fucking dense, please.

do you honestly believe that his approach is the same hitting 1st and/or 7th? do you think he is on the team to do anything else but lead off? 7th is an RBI spot--is that why he is here? ridiculous.

really, some folks should have to pass a test on baseball 101 to post here.

[Towlie]

Confidence <> development.  Towles had not even a cup of coffee in AAA.  He needed to learn to recognize major-league quality pitches.

Physician, heal thyself.

Bourn is on this team to lead off.  You don't learn that hitting 7th.

1.) No shit? Obviously thats the idea they took with Bourn. Though they dont say it is, moving from the 1st to 7th spot in the line up is considered to be a demotion. Hell, Bourn was losing playing time to our dearly beloved Abercrombie as well. Oh no, Bourn wasn't being sat down for confidence and development (i guess hitting coaches in the bigs aren't a form of development), its just rest.

2.) He was slumping in the leadoff spot, right? How many times have you seen managers on many other teams move the slumping leadoff man down in favor of someone else who was getting on base at a higher clip. Its used to be able to give the guy playing time at a much less lofty position in the line-up. Bourn knows hes the leadoff guy but he needed to be moved down to have the pressure off his back for that position so to speak.

[JimR]

1.) No shit? Obviously thats the idea they took with Bourn. Though they dont say it is, moving from the 1st to 7th spot in the line up is considered to be a demotion. Hell, Bourn was losing playing time to our dearly beloved Abercrombie as well. Oh no, Bourn wasn't being sat down for confidence and development (i guess hitting coaches in the bigs aren't a form of development), its just rest.

2.) He was slumping in the leadoff spot, right? How many times have you seen managers on many other teams move the slumping leadoff man down in favor of someone else who was getting on base at a higher clip. Its used to be able to give the guy playing time at a much less lofty position in the line-up. Bourn knows hes the leadoff guy but he needed to be moved down to have the pressure off his back for that position so to speak.

nope.

next issue?

[Towlie]

nope.

next issue?

Maybe you should be manager since you know so much.

[JimR]

Maybe you should be manager since you know so much.

i could do that. i have done it. have you?

[Astroholic]

2.) How many times have you seen managers on many other teams move the slumping leadoff man down in favor of someone else who was getting on base at a higher clip.  

They might do this if there is a better option too lead off, which Pence! is not.  Pence! is an RBI man who fits perfect at 6 or 7th in the lineup.  Understand?

[Towlie]

i could do that. i have done it. have you?

Oh sure, if beer leagues count. I'm talking about the bigs.

[MikeyBoy]

Its a mental thing dude...its not that hard to realize that. Or, i guess, sports players dont have brains, its all that fast twitch muscle fiber.

And, it seems to have worked for Bourn.

Bourn started hitting in mid May and he raised his average 35 points at the point (June 5th) which he was dropped in the order.

[MusicMan]

1.) No shit? Obviously thats the idea they took with Bourn. Though they dont say it is, moving from the 1st to 7th spot in the line up is considered to be a demotion. Hell, Bourn was losing playing time to our dearly beloved Abercrombie as well. Oh no, Bourn wasn't being sat down for confidence and development (i guess hitting coaches in the bigs aren't a form of development), its just rest.

Losing playing time to Abercrombie?  Making things up to make your point will not get you far.

[Ebby Calvin]

Honestly, rather than blow this up just now, I'd like to see them settle on a lineup and ride it out thru the end of the season.  Damn this "win now" notion.  It turns into "never wins" eventually.

I agree.  I like this nucleus, despite the past few weeks.  If you could get something for Erstad/Loretta/Towles/Blum/Wiggy, I'd go for it, though.  Leave the major chips in place.

[Astroholic]

Oh sure, if beer leagues count. I'm talking about the bigs.

You earned it.  Ignore!

[Towlie]

They might do this if there is a better option too lead off, which Pence! is not.  Pence! is an RBI man who fits perfect at 6 or 7th in the lineup.  Understand?

Yes I understand that and agree to that idea but it seems like you guys aren't understanding the mentality taken by moving Pence in favor of helping Bourn. I'm not saying its the right one but at least understand the thinking behind it.

[pravata]

Bourn started hitting in mid May and he raised his average 35 points at the point (June 5th) which he was dropped in the order.

What about Pence's performance since the switch?  What about the Astros' record?  The Astros line is that as long as the team is winning the individual's performance, specifically Bourn and Towles, did not matter.  They also said they were going to concentrate on pitching and defense.

[MusicMan]

Yes I understand that and agree to that idea but it seems like you guys aren't understanding the mentality taken by moving Pence in favor of helping Bourn. I'm not saying its the right one but at least understand the thinking behind it.

I understand that it was a panic move.  You and the voices in your head are saying that makes it justified, and that it healed Bourn to become the 7th hitter that the Astros need.

[JimR]

Oh sure, if beer leagues count. I'm talking about the bigs.

nope. never done it in the beer leagues.

college and HS.

your "understanding" is nuts.

[Towlie]

I understand that it was a panic move.  You and the voices in your head are saying that makes it justified, and that it healed Bourn to become the 7th hitter that the Astros need.

see the complaining about sending Bourn back to AAA because hes not producing at the leadoff spot.

[MusicMan]

What about Pence's performance since the switch?  What about the Astros' record? 

I'll take this one...

Pence, batting #1: .232/.247/.348
Pence, batting #2: .205/.205/.333
Pence, batting #6: .330/.378/.524

Bourn, batting #1:  .218/.280/.306

So, in fact, the Astros found a WORSE leadoff man by making this switch.  The nosedive in the offense is NOT coincidental.

[MikeyBoy]

Yes I understand that and agree to that idea but it seems like you guys aren't understanding the mentality taken by moving Pence in favor of helping Bourn. I'm not saying its the right one but at least understand the thinking behind it.

Bourn was 18 for 60 (May 18 - June5) in the three weeks prior to being dropped in the order.

[JackAstro]

Oh sure, if beer leagues count. I'm talking about the bigs.

I'm not even sure what's being argued anymore, but I can tell that you suck at it. We're going to be moving you down to 20th in the ankle-biting order to work on a few things.

[MusicMan]

see the complaining about sending Bourn back to AAA because hes not producing at the leadoff spot.

I never once said to send Bourn to AAA.

You're making shit up again, which is the only way to support your "argument."

Tell me the story again about how Abercrombie has taken Bourn's playing time.

[BudGirl]

see the complaining about sending Bourn back to AAA because hes not producing at the leadoff spot.

I'll admit it.  I'd complain.  They traded for Bourn to be the lead-off/CF of this team.  Sending him to AAA would pretty much mean they gave Lidge away for nothing.  I'm no ready to send him there.  Plus, I think Bourn was producing.  Not at the highest rate, but he was.

[Andyzipp]

I never once said to send Bourn to AAA.

You're making shit up again, which is the only way to support your "argument."

Tell me the story again about how Abercrombie has taken Bourn's playing time.

Palillo and Davies were both claiming he needed to be sent down about a month ago.

[Towlie]

I never once said to send Bourn to AAA.

You're making shit up again, which is the only way to support your "argument."

Tell me the story again about how Abercrombie has taken Bourn's playing time.

I didn't point out you.

Abercrombie was given at least 1 or 2 spot starts in place of Bourn, and then take in account the Erstad spot starts in that position as well.

[chuck]

According to the writer of this article

http://www.panama-guide.com/article.php/20080616113638319

one productive change might have been to have someone else throw out the first pitch Sunday. This will probably be of very limited interest to anyone but me, but this woman Balbina is a curious figure. She's running for President as a member of the dominant PRD party, the party of every President since time immemorial, and her primary competition within the party is the current mayor of the capital, Juan Carlos Navarro, a fellow who is the choice of the current President Martin Torrijos and seems destined to win. She's cast herself as a populist outsider, calls herself "La Chola," and is going to garner some real support.

The author's not kidding that half the reason Panamanian politicians that are not yet established on an international level come to the US is to publicly demonstrate that they have a visa.

[ybbodeus]

....So if fans start to boo Cecil Cooper at every chance during the BoSox series... and I mean directed all at Cooper, he's a goner.

I was thinking about that this morning on the drive to work and wondering if Cooper could be persuasive enough to convince Pam, Ed and Drayton that folks were not actually booing him but in fact yelling, "COOP."

[Gizzmonic]

What about Pence's performance since the switch?  What about the Astros' record?  The Astros line is that as long as the team is winning the individual's performance, specifically Bourn and Towles, did not matter.  They also said they were going to concentrate on pitching and defense.

I think it was kind of a Wile E. Coyote type thing where they crept off a cliff without noticing.  As soon as they looked down, Coop threw up his "OH DEAR!" sign and they've been in freefall ever since.

[MusicMan]

I didn't point out you.

Abercrombie was given at least 1 or 2 spot starts in place of Bourn, and then take in account the Erstad spot starts in that position as well.

Abercrombie has started 1 game since being called up June 7.  If you think Abercrombie was called up for any reason other than Cheito was so bad, and the lack of any alternatives at AAA, you're sorely mistaken.

As for Palilo and Davies... I literally could not care less, with the excpetion of Drayton's unfortunate habit of listening to "fans" like this.

[pravata]

Abercrombie has started 1 game since being called up June 7.  If you think Abercrombie was called up for any reason other than Cheito was so bad, and the lack of any alternatives at AAA, you're sorely mistaken.

As for Palilo and Davies... I literally could not care less, with the excpetion of Drayton's unfortunate habit of listening to "fans" like this.

Unfortunately Mclane does listen to these clowns.  Or maybe he listens to Pam Gardner who listens.  None the less it is near impossible to counter the negative aspects of this type of fan "interaction".  For the most part the personalities controlling the airways brook no challenges.

[BUWebguy]

nope. never done it in the beer leagues.

college and HS.

Jim - you coached in college, too? Where and when?

[Towlie]

On a lighter note, Short season b-ball starts today guys 

[JimR]

Jim - you coached in college, too? Where and when?

one season at UT with Gustafson before i started my HS career.

[MusicMan]

one season at UT with Gustafson before i started my HS career.

Fuck that.  How many seasons of fantasy baseball have you managed?

[Andyzipp]

Fuck that.  How many seasons of fantasy baseball have you managed?

Mark does the managing...Jim is just a figurehead.

[JimR]

Mark does the managing...Jim is just a figurehead.

this is so true. i'm not sure i am even a figurehead. if i am, it is a tiny little figure.

[Taras Bulba]

this is so true. i'm not sure i am even a figurehead. if i am, it is a tiny little figure.

Jim's mantra: "What the fuck have you done to be a champion, today?"

[kevwun]

The press conferences would be epic.

[JimR]

The press conferences would be epic.

i'm smarter than that.

[Limey]

The press conferences would be epic.

Jim could have signs made with acronyms like "FI" and "WFW", and just hold them up as necessary.

[ybbodeus]

The press conferences would be epic.

Bobby Knight would attend them for some pointers.

[MRaup]

Bobby Knight would attend them for some pointers.

Earl Weaver had to stop attending because "the language was just too strong".

[pots]

Earl Weaver had to stop attending because "the language was just too strong".

Brett Myers left the room crying

[Andyzipp]

Earl Weaver had to stop attending because "the language was just too strong".

Woody Hayes actually blushed.

[MusicMan]

Brett Myers left the room crying

This should happen more often.

[ybbodeus]

Earl Weaver had to stop attending because "the language was just too strong".

Was there a Lasorda reaction?

[MRaup]

Was there a Lasorda reaction?

"Someone hand me some more garlic bread to soak up this extra marinara?"

[kevwun]

He was too drunk to respond.  Albert did say that after several failed attempts, they are convinced the things they were accused of doing during the press conference are not physically possible.

[Ron Brand]

Lee Elia smiled.

[Bloony]

They might do this if there is a better option too lead off, which Pence! is not.  Pence! is an RBI man who fits perfect at 6 or 7th in the lineup.  Understand?

Agree that Pence is not a better option in the leadoff slot, but not convinced about this concept of an "RBI man". At what point in production does somebody cross over into RBI man territory? Would you call Ichiro an "RBI man"? Don't you think he would rack up a shit ton of RBIs if he hit 4th or 5th?

Personally, I think Matsui could hit leadoff just fine.

[Holly]

Quentin Tarantino and Judd Apatow plugged their ears.

[pravata]

Agree that Pence is not a better option in the leadoff slot, but not convinced about this concept of an "RBI man". At what point in production does somebody cross over into RBI man territory? Would you call Ichiro an "RBI man"? Don't you think he would rack up a shit ton of RBIs if he hit 4th or 5th?

Personally, I think Matsui could hit leadoff just fine.

You're the only one.  An "RBI man" is a hitter that usually puts the ball in play.  Ichiro qualifies but has other skills as well.  Pence does not.   There's also the context of the types of pitches the 6 hitter sees.

[Bloony]

You're the only one.  An "RBI man" is a hitter that usually puts the ball in play.  Ichiro qualifies but has other skills as well.  Pence does not.   There's also the context of the types of pitches the 6 hitter sees.

Seems like a pretty vague and useless term. I think teams can be and are more precise.

[MusicMan]

Personally, I think Matsui could hit leadoff just fine.

His performance in his career disagrees with you.

[JaneDoe]

Personally, I think Matsui could hit leadoff just fine.

That depends on what you mean by "fine".  His past performance in the leadoff spot left more to be desired. 

[pravata]

Seems like a pretty vague and useless term. I think teams can be and are more precise.

It's precise and very useful.  Some people think that RBI are the happy coincidence of the intersection of hits and men on base, they are not.

[austro]

His performance in his career disagrees with you.

And here's the other thing: either Bourn will make it in this league as a leadoff hitter, or he'll find another line of work. So let's get on with the experiment and find out which it is. Neither Matsui nor Pence will be our long-term leadoff guy; Bourn might be. Let's find out. Let him work on the skills required in the leadoff position, which are much different from those required in the 7- or 8-spot.

[MusicMan]

And here's the other thing: either Bourn will make it in this league as a leadoff hitter, or he'll find another line of work. So let's get on with the experiment and find out which it is. Neither Matsui nor Pence will be our long-term leadoff guy; Bourn might be. Let's find out. Let him work on the skills required in the leadoff position, which are much different from those required in the 7- or 8-spot.

This thread is evidence that many people don't understand that simple concept.

[JaneDoe]

And here's the other thing: either Bourn will make it in this league as a leadoff hitter, or he'll find another line of work. So let's get on with the experiment and find out which it is. Neither Matsui nor Pence will be our long-term leadoff guy; Bourn might be. Let's find out. Let him work on the skills required in the leadoff position, which are much different from those required in the 7- or 8-spot.

This should be looped about 1000 times and broadcast over all the Houston sports radio stations. 

[Andyzipp]

This should be looped about 1000 times and broadcast over all the Houston sports radio stations. 

I can think of at least one Houston sports radio station this was said on...Saturday morning, I think.

[Limey]

It's precise and very useful.  Some people think that RBI are the happy coincidence of the intersection of hits and men on base, they are not.

Correct.  They are given, and taken away, by Angel Hernandez.

[MusicMan]

I can think of at least one Houston sports radio station this was said on...Saturday morning, I think.

Where's my f'n podcast?

[Limey]

I can think of at least one Houston sports radio station this was said on...Saturday morning, I think.

How do we get Pam and Draytie to listen to 1560 on a Saturday morning?

[Duman]

Was there a Lasorda reaction?

Here it is

[Limey]

Here it is

Breakdancing?

[Jacksonian]

I can think of at least one Houston sports radio station this was said on...Saturday morning, I think.

Is that the one I wasn't able to call in to about the draft the last 2 weekends but should be able to this weekend?

[Andyzipp]

Is that the one I wasn't able to call in to about the draft the last 2 weekends but should be able to this weekend?

Perhaps.

[geezerdonk]

Ichiro qualifies but has other skills as well.

Nunchuk skills among them, no doubt.

[pravata]

Nunchuk skills among them, no doubt.

Monkey ninja for all I know.  He's the best hitter in baseball right now.  Using Ichiro as an example is stacking the deck.

[Astroholic]

Monkey ninja for all I know.  He's the best hitter in baseball right now.  Using Ichiro as an example is stacking the deck.

I think Rickey Henderson should have been an RBI man, if it was not for his mad skills hitting leadoff.  Come on.  Pence is not patient at the plate.  He can't lay off outside slider.  Has speed, but not leadoff steal 50+ bases speed.  He can knock the hell out of a fastball and drive in runs.

And Prav. this is not directed at you, I just hit quote.

[MusicMan]

Back on topic, I would be disappointed to see a lineup tonight other than:

Bourn CF
Matsui 2b
Tejada SS
Berkman 1b
Lee DH
Pence RF
Erstad LF
Wigginton 3b
Ausmus C

[Andyzipp]

Back on topic, I would be disappointed to see a lineup tonight other than:

Bourn CF
Matsui 2b
Tejada SS
Berkman 1b
Lee DH
Pence RF
Erstad LF
Wigginton 3b
Ausmus C

Berkman is going to be DHing tonight with the achy leg.

Lee will be in Left, Erstad will be at 1b.

[MusicMan]

I can live with that.  However, will Oswalt bitch and moan about Berkman being in the dugout for the whole game?

[Astroholic]

I can live with that.  However, will Oswalt bitch and moan about Berkman being in the dugout for the whole game?

He won't get a word in.

[MusicMan]

He won't get a word in.

Then I've found the first logical argument in favor of the DH.

[Astroholic]

Then I've found the first logical argument in favor of the DH.

Unless he waits until Berkman is hitting.  You know, the "Justice strategy".

[JackAstro]

I think Rickey Henderson should have been an RBI man, if it was not for his mad skills hitting leadoff.  Come on.  Pence is not patient at the plate.  He can't lay off outside slider.  Has speed, but not leadoff steal 50+ bases speed.  He can knock the hell out of a fastball and drive in runs.

And Prav. this is not directed at you, I just hit quote.

There you go. He doesn't get on base much at the top, he's not patient, he's fast but not crazy fast. On the other hand, he hits well with guys on base, and has good pop. Figuring out what kind of hitter he is and where he should hit is not rocket surgery.

[Astroholic]

There you go. He doesn't get on base much at the top, he's not patient, he's fast but not crazy fast. On the other hand, he hits well with guys on base, and has good pop. Figuring out what kind of hitter he is and where he should hit is not rocket surgery.

And though he hits well, he does not hit as well or have the experience hitting as well as Miggy, Berkman and Lee, so where should we the stros put him...hmmmmm?

[Ebby Calvin]

And though he hits well, he does not hit as well or have the experience hitting as well as Miggy, Berkman and Lee, so where should we put him...hmmmmm?

9th.  Clear as day.

[ybbodeus]

Hit the road, LaRussa.

[strosrays]

I can think of at least one Houston sports radio station this was said on...Saturday morning, I think.

Saturday?  Or Sunday?  I always get those mixed up for some reason. . .

Oh, well.  Maybe your new signature should be:  "I'm down with MB/You know me."