Author Topic: The five hole in the lineup (Read 12649 times)

Noe · « **on:** May 28, 2008, 04:16:45 pm »

What started back in 1998 and continues to today in the Houston Astros organization is that the best lineup spot to secure for the team is indeed the 5 hole. You need a five hole hitter to grab all the RBIs that will become available else this team will flounder on offense. I know, I know, I know... the whole lineup needs to be constructed well and I don't disagree. But for a period of a few years, the five hole spot became a mystery for this team. Even in the years the team was woeful on offense, guys like Berkman and then Carlos Lee managed to put up good numbers. Everyone else around them did not, but those two guys managed to put up good numbers. In fact, in 2006, Berkman put up great numbers considering the woeful hitting ways of the entire lineup. Nobody was helping Berkman, but from the cleanup spot the man was having a great season. Last year, Carlos Lee was brought in to help Berkman, but you still had to pin your hopes on a guy like Morgan Ensberg to solidify the five hole to make it all work.

He didn't.

Ensberg seemed to prefer to hit leadoff or second in the lineup so he could justify his desire to not swing the bat and get on base via the walk instead. A big void was left in the five hole and Houston went on to have a horrible season in 2007 and that lead to some firings and a whole shakeup of the team. Speed was announced as the key ingredient to the shakeup undertaken by the puffy haired Team Pres Tal Smith. The same mantra was repeated by interim, then non-interim manager Cecil Cooper. When Ed Wade came in as the GM, all the groundwork was laid to execute the plan. Go forth and find some speed! We paid close attention to it all and it seemed evident with the very first move WadeSmith (with a dash of Coop) made that speed was indeed the plan. Hello Michael Bourn. Hello Kaz Matsui. Yes, speed. Even though the misunderstanding of what exactly "speed" meant was on for most fans, including limiting the ideal to just stealing bases, the whole plan was shaping up.

Then came the move to acquire Miquel Tejada and the head scratching was on. It made no sense in context of speed and what was supposed to be the plan. Tejada? Whaaaa? Then Ed Wade gave us a glimpse of the plan in full when he kindly shared the lineup that the Astros would employ. It also made heads explode both in the sports talk radio where he shared it (John Q. Lopez and Ted Whatev certainly did some great impressions of the head spinning from the movie the Exorcist at that time) and all around the interwebs. This was a confusing move, but the lineup that Wade shared was even more confusing. But it was a key to the thinking if you will and nary a one of us caught on fully. Talk of what to do with Pence, where to place Tejada, what about Berkman or Lee? Some here even decided that this was an opportunity to bat Berkman second. Darn it all, we kept spinning wheels around here trying to understand when it was all clearly in play:

This team would no longer ignore the five hole (and other important RBI spots).

Plain and simple and a very good reason you go get a Miguel Tejada to hit in this lineup. When Tejada proved he was still a very solid three hole hitter of the Jeff Bagwell type, that opened the door to make the right move for Cooper. Fix that damn five hole problem this team has had since the day Jeff Kent walked out the door. For the love of Moises Alou, this was critical.

Hello Carlos Lee, welcome to your new job... Mr. RBI!

It is a well known fact that Lee loves to hit cleanup and was hesitant to make this move once asked to do so. But it was indeed the right move once Gua Gua proved himself. Even Lee could not deny it was a great idea. And to have Pence in the six hole, that was sweet icing on that cake! Berkman is leading the NL right now (and second in the entire majors behind Hamilton), but guess who is one RBI behind Berkman in the leader board for RBIs?

Carlos Lee.

You think this was happenstance or luck? I don't, it was indeed a part of the plan.. return to the days of a solid run producer in the five hole and here he was, already locked up for seven years. If you have someone to hit third or cleanup, you can move that solid hitter in C. Lee right to the spot he can do the most damage to the opposition.

Thank goodness for baseball men with plans and that execute them well.

MusicMan · « **Reply #1 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:18:42 pm »

2004. Batting 5th: Jeff Kent.

Jugger. Naut.

JimR · « **Reply #2 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:22:05 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:18:42 pm

2004. Batting 5th: Jeff Kent.

Jugger. Naut.

1998
Moises Alou
ditto

MusicMan · « **Reply #3 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:22:52 pm »

Both professional hitters, both appreciated much more in the clubhouse than by the fans.

Astroholic · « **Reply #4 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:23:43 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:22:52 pm

Both professional hitters, both appreciated much more in the clubhouse than by the fans.

Who gives a shit what those "fans" think.

Noe · « **Reply #5 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:25:04 pm »

Quote from: Astroholic on May 28, 2008, 04:23:43 pm

Who gives a shit what those "fans" think.

"Yes! Who!?!?" - Drayton McLane

JimR · « **Reply #6 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:28:53 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:22:52 pm

Both professional hitters, both appreciated much more in the clubhouse than by the fans.

i knew all along that Alou was a great hitter, as opposed to a slugger. i learned that about Kent, Lee and Tejada only by watching them play every day on TV.

Gizzmonic · « **Reply #7 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:32:52 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 04:16:45 pm

Thank goodness for baseball men with plans and that execute them well.

Noe, are you trying to say that Tal Smith is Hannibal, Ed Wade is Murdoch, Cooper is B.A. Baracus, and Drayton McLane is Face?

I love it when a plan comes together!

Noe · « **Reply #8 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:33:02 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:22:52 pm

Both professional hitters, both appreciated much more in the clubhouse than by the fans.

When you hear folks start to opine about lineup machinations that the Astros should undertake, like moving Bourn down or Towles out or Pence up, remember the five hole hitter who is raking up some great RBIs because of the job Tejada and Berkman are doing and because he has Pence hitting behind him. Lee isn't hitting for high average (although .275 isn't anything to sneeze at either!), but he's the key to making the lineup work as well as it does in terms of the Four Horseman and also from being a broken two-part lineup like it has been for several years. Berkman also leads the entire majors in runs scored... that is because Lee and Pence are driving him in. Tejada cleans up when Bourn and Matsui get on, Berkman when Matsui and Tejada, but Lee and Pence put this team into another level of potency driving in Berkman, Tejada and whatever is left over.

So this team is well constructed in terms of a lineup because they paid very close attention the last few years what can happen with the lineup is fractured. Berkman didn't just need Carlos Lee to help him last year, the Astros needed to do the right thing by the 5 and 6 hole to really make it work. Props to them for not paying attentions to know-it-alls like... well... everyone else when the answer was clear to them.

If Lee and Pence are doing their job well and they are, this team will be more than a four run a game team. And four runs a game is considered a great offense too.

JimR · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:34:05 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 04:33:02 pm

When you hear folks start to opine about lineup machinations that the Astros should undertake, like moving Bourn down or Towles out or Pence up, remember the five hole hitter who is raking up some great RBIs because of the job Tejada and Berkman are doing. Lee isn't hitting for high average (although .275 isn't anything to sneeze at either!), but he's the key to making the lineup work as well as it does in terms of the Four Horseman. Berkman also leads the entire majors in runs scored... that is because Lee and Pence are driving him in. Tejada cleans up when Bourn and Matsui get on, Berkman when Matsui and Tejada, but Lee and Pence put this team into another level of potency driving in Berkman, Tejada and whatever is left over.

So this team is well constructed in terms of a lineup because they paid very close attention the last few years what can happen with the lineup is fractured. Berkman didn't just need Carlos Lee to help him last year, the Astros needed to do the right thing by the 5 and 6 hole to really make it work. Props to them for not paying attentions to know-it-alls like... well... everyone else when the answer was clear to them.

If Lee and Pence are doing their job well and they are, this team will be more than a four run a game team. And four runs a game is considered a great offense too.

the 7 hole is important, too, and Wiggy is starting to heat up.

Clark in Denver · « **Reply #10 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:36:41 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 04:25:04 pm

"Yes." - Drayton McLane

It could be worse...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/soccer/363518_sounders17.html

Noe · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:38:47 pm »

Quote from: JimR on May 28, 2008, 04:22:05 pm

1998
Moises Alou
ditto

And giving credit where credit is due:

2005 (World Series team)
Morgan Ensberg
MVP type of season
(and Jason Lane, very good six hole hitter)

then... all of it went away as quickly as it got here. Some of it was Bagwell's injury related that made Ensberg the cleanup man and Lane the five hole guy, most of it was Ensberg and Lane losing it quickly.

MusicMan · « **Reply #12 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:40:13 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 04:33:02 pm

he's the key to making the lineup work as well as it does in terms of the Four Horseman

Screw the "BLT and P" crap... these men must be called the new Four Horsemen.

I beheld a pale first baseman astride a pale horse, and the rider's name was Lance...

Noe · « **Reply #13 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:41:13 pm »

Quote from: JimR on May 28, 2008, 04:34:05 pm

the 7 hole is important, too, and Wiggy is starting to heat up.

Very true and one thing that is flying under the radar right now is that Pence is being a bit more patient and forcing pitchers to come to him. If they walk him or pitch around him, it gives Wiggington some great opportunities. When Pence is out of his mind and swinging at everything, Wiggington is still doing his job by starting rallies if he has too.

I'd rather Pence allow for patience to rule the day and thus either create a great situation for himself or Wiggington. Both capable hitters.

Astroholic · « **Reply #14 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:41:29 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:40:13 pm

Screw the "BLT and P" crap... these men must be called the new Four Horsemen.

I beheld a pale first baseman astride a pale horse, and the rider's name was Lance...

I like it

The 4 Caballeros

Noe · « **Reply #15 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:42:24 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:40:13 pm

Screw the "BLT and P" crap... these men must be called the new Four Horsemen.

I beheld a pale first baseman astride a pale horse, and the rider's name was Lance...

Would make for an awesome poster too!

Jacksonian · « **Reply #16 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:44:06 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 04:42:24 pm

Would make for an awesome poster too!

Or a photoshopped SnS banner (by those capable of such things, not myself).

JimR · « **Reply #17 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:45:12 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:40:13 pm

Screw the "BLT and P" crap... these men must be called the new Four Horsemen.

I beheld a pale first baseman astride a pale horse, and the rider's name was Lance...

Los Quatro Caballos

MusicMan · « **Reply #18 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:46:41 pm »

How about Four Caballeros, to better represent the group's ethnic mix?

strosrays · « **Reply #19 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:47:18 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 04:16:45 pm

What started back in 1998 and continues to today in the Houston Astros organization is that the best lineup spot to secure for the team is indeed the 5 hole. You need a five hole hitter to grab all the RBIs that will become available else this team will flounder on offense. I know, I know, I know... the whole lineup needs to be constructed well and I don't disagree. But for a period of a few years, the five hole spot became a mystery for this team. Even in the years the team was woeful on offense, guys like Berkman and then Carlos Lee managed to put up good numbers. Everyone else around them did not, but those two guys managed to put up good numbers. In fact, in 2006, Berkman put up great numbers considering the woeful hitting ways of the entire lineup. Nobody was helping Berkman, but from the cleanup spot the man was having a great season. Last year, Carlos Lee was brought in to help Berkman, but you still had to pin your hopes on a guy like Morgan Ensberg to solidify the five hole to make it all work.

He didn't.

Ensberg seemed to prefer to hit leadoff or second in the lineup so he could justify his desire to not swing the bat and get on base via the walk instead. A big void was left in the five hole and Houston went on to have a horrible season in 2007 and that lead to some firings and a whole shakeup of the team. Speed was announced as the key ingredient to the shakeup undertaken by the puffy haired Team Pres Tal Smith. The same mantra was repeated by interim, then non-interim manager Cecil Cooper. When Ed Wade came in as the GM, all the groundwork was laid to execute the plan. Go forth and find some speed! We paid close attention to it all and it seemed evident with the very first move WadeSmith (with a dash of Coop) made that speed was indeed the plan. Hello Michael Bourn. Hello Kaz Matsui. Yes, speed. Even though the misunderstanding of what exactly "speed" meant was on for most fans, including limiting the ideal to just stealing bases, the whole plan was shaping up.

Then came the move to acquire Miquel Tejada and the head scratching was on. It made no sense in context of speed and what was supposed to be the plan. Tejada? Whaaaa? Then Ed Wade gave us a glimpse of the plan in full when he kindly shared the lineup that the Astros would employ. It also made heads explode both in the sports talk radio where he shared it (John Q. Lopez and Ted Whatev certainly did some great impressions of the head spinning from the movie the Exorcist at that time) and all around the interwebs. This was a confusing move, but the lineup that Wade shared was even more confusing. But it was a key to the thinking if you will and nary a one of us caught on fully. Talk of what to do with Pence, where to place Tejada, what about Berkman or Lee? Some here even decided that this was an opportunity to bat Berkman second. Darn it all, we kept spinning wheels around here trying to understand when it was all clearly in play:

This team would no longer ignore the five hole (and other important RBI spots).

Plain and simple and a very good reason you go get a Miguel Tejada to hit in this lineup. When Tejada proved he was still a very solid three hole hitter of the Jeff Bagwell type, that opened the door to make the right move for Cooper. Fix that damn five hole problem this team has had since the day Jeff Kent walked out the door. For the love of Moises Alou, this was critical.

Hello Carlos Lee, welcome to your new job... Mr. RBI!

It is a well known fact that Lee loves to hit cleanup and was hesitant to make this move once asked to do so. But it was indeed the right move once Gua Gua proved himself. Even Lee could not deny it was a great idea. And to have Pence in the six hole, that was sweet icing on that cake! Berkman is leading the NL right now (and second in the entire majors behind Hamilton), but guess who is one RBI behind Berkman in the leader board for RBIs?

Carlos Lee.

You think this was happenstance or luck? I don't, it was indeed a part of the plan.. return to the days of a solid run producer in the five hole and here he was, already locked up for seven years. If you have someone to hit third or cleanup, you can move that solid hitter in C. Lee right to the spot he can do the most damage to the opposition.

Thank goodness for baseball men with plans and that execute them well.

2007 #5 Hitters
(ASTROS) (162 GM) .284/.359/.416 11 HR, 80 RBI
Mark Loretta (R) (43 GS) .325/.393/.448
Luke Scott (L) (40 GS) .236/.335/.417
Hunter Pence (R) (22 GS) .329/.356/.482
Mike Lamb (L) (21 GS) .317/.385/.366
Morgan Ensberg (R) (16 GS) .227/.329/.364
Ty Wigginton (R) (15 GS) .321/.403/.472
Jason Lane (L) (4 GS) .125/.125/.250
Lance Berkman (B) (1 GS) .000/.000/.000

2006 #5 Hitters
(ASTROS) (162 GM) .268/.344/.419 19 HR, 78 RBI
Preston Wilson (R) (66 GS) .249/.300/.392
Aubrey Huff (L) (26 GS) .298/.385/.532
Morgan Ensberg (R) (22 GS) .203/.359/.284
Luke Scott (L) (19 GS) .389/.470/.611
Mike Lamb (L) (12 GS) .339/.377/.429
Jason Lane (L) (8 GS) .125/.125/.250
Chris Burke (R) (6 GS) .043/.120/.043
Eric Munson (L) (2 GS) .500/.545/.800
J.R. House (R) (1 GS) .000/.000/.000

2005 #5 Hitters
(ASTROS) (162 GM) .238/.291/.445 32 HR, 96 RBI
Jason Lane (L) (84 GS) .257/.302/.468
Morgan Ensberg (R) (35 GS) .242/.333/.492
Mike Lamb (L) (35 GS) .203/.234/.399
Luke Scott (L) (4 GS) .214/.214/.357
José Vizcaino (B) (4 GS) .214/.267/.214

2004 #5 Hitters
(ASTROS) (162 GM) .274/.383/.514 33 HR, 109 RBI
Jeff Kent (R) (69 GS) .277/.340/.550
Lance Berkman (B) (48 GS) .312/.486/.624
Jeff Bagwell (R) (17 GS) .276/.417/.414
Mike Lamb (L) (12 GS) .182/.280/.341
Richard Hidalgo (R) (8 GS) .313/.371/.469
Morgan Ensberg (R) (7 GS) .154/.241/.154
Jason Lane (L) (1 GS) .000/.333/.000

2003 #5 Hitters
(ASTROS) (162 GM) .304/.386/.534 28 HR, 112 RBI
Lance Berkman (B) (80 GS) .301/.415/.500
Richard Hidalgo (R) (49 GS) .332/.376/.633
Jeff Kent (R) (18 GS) .254/.289/.493
Morgan Ensberg (R) (8 GS) .345/.457/.586
Orlando Merced (B) (4 GS) .231/.412/.308
Geoff Blum (B) (2 GS) .444/.444/.444
Brian Hunter (R) (1 GS) .250/.250/.500

2002 #5 Hitters
(ASTROS) (162 GM) .265/.342/.421 19 HR, 100 RBI
Daryle Ward (L) (87 GS) .270/.325/.429
Richard Hidalgo (R) (45 GS) .237/.351/.456
Orlando Merced (B) (14 GS) .322/.359/.441
Mark Loretta (R) (7 GS) .565/.645/.652
José Vizcaino (B) (7 GS) .192/.323/.192
Geoff Blum (B) (1 GS) .000/.000/.000
Alan Zinter (B) (1 GS) .000/.000/.000

2001 #5 Hitters
(ASTROS) (162 GM) .321/.386/.548 33 HR, 128 RBI
Moises Alou (R) (134 GS) .330/.395/.553
Richard Hidalgo (R) (19 GS) .268/.341/.535
Daryle Ward (L) (4 GS) .286/.336/.571
Lance Berkman (B) (2 GS) .500/.556/.625
Orlando Merced (B) (2 GS) .286/.375/.286
Vinny Castilla (R) (1 GS) .250/.250/1.000

2000 #5 Hitters
(ASTROS) (162 GM) .331/.401/.627 47 HR, 155 RBI
Moises Alou (R) (120 GS) .356/.417/.626
Richard Hidalgo (R) (27 GS) .297/.400/.733
Daryle Ward (L) (8 GS) .200/.243/.600
Lance Berkman (B) (6 GS) .200/.323/.360
Matt Mieske (R) (1 GS) .333/.333/.333

Astroholic · « **Reply #20 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:47:24 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:46:41 pm

How about Four Caballeros, to better represent the group's ethnic mix?

Damn thats a great idea. Why didnt I think of that.

MRaup · « **Reply #21 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:50:48 pm »

Quote from: strosrays on May 28, 2008, 04:47:18 pm

2007 #5 Hitters
(ASTROS) (162 GM) .284/.359/.416 11 HR, 80 RBI
Mark Loretta (R) (43 GS) .325/.393/.448
Luke Scott (L) (40 GS) .236/.335/.417
Hunter Pence (R) (22 GS) .329/.356/.482
Mike Lamb (L) (21 GS) .317/.385/.366
Morgan Ensberg (R) (16 GS) .227/.329/.364
Ty Wigginton (R) (15 GS) .321/.403/.472
Jason Lane (L) (4 GS) .125/.125/.250
Lance Berkman (B) (1 GS) .000/.000/.000

According to my calculations with these 2007 numbers, we've got to get Berkman the hell out of the 4 hole... STAT!

JimR · « **Reply #22 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:51:15 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:46:41 pm

How about Four Caballeros, to better represent the group's ethnic mix?

I likey

MRaup · « **Reply #23 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:52:00 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:40:13 pm

Screw the "BLT and P" crap... these men must be called the new Four Horsemen.

I beheld a pale first baseman astride a pale horse, and the rider's name was Lance...

And snack food followed with him?

MRaup · « **Reply #24 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:53:00 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:40:13 pm

Screw the "BLT and P" crap... these men must be called the new Four Horsemen.

I beheld a pale first baseman astride a pale horse, and the rider's name was Lance...

And Chris Burke followed him, which is a lot like Death in a lineup kind of sense.

ETA: fixed the quote...

Jacksonian · « **Reply #25 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:54:39 pm »

Quote from: MRaup on May 28, 2008, 04:53:00 pm

Or Chris Burke, which is a lot like Death in a lineup kind of sense.

I'm on the fence about a potw here. Trouble is you double clutched and quoted yourself before getting the throw off.

MRaup · « **Reply #26 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:55:30 pm »

Quote from: Jacksonian on May 28, 2008, 04:54:39 pm

I'm on the fence about a potw here. Trouble is you double clutched and quoted yourself before getting the throw off.

Inspiration struck me twice in 30 seconds. I'd just hit post and went. OH! A Burke slam approacheth!

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #27 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:55:35 pm »

Thanks to the absolutely outstanding combination of how often Berkman is reaching base as well as how effectively Lee, Pence and Wigginton are driving him in, Berkman is on a pace to score 173 runs.

JimR · « **Reply #28 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:56:34 pm »

Quote from: Jacksonian on May 28, 2008, 04:54:39 pm

I'm on the fence about a potw here. Trouble is you double clutched and quoted yourself before getting the throw off.

he quoted the wrong post, obviously. good line though if he modifies.

MusicMan · « **Reply #29 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:57:24 pm »

Quote from: MRaup on May 28, 2008, 04:55:30 pm

Inspiration struck me twice in 30 seconds. I'd just hit post and went. OH! A Burke slam approacheth!

Don't you hate it when you hate to turn around and go right back to the can?

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #30 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:57:30 pm »

Tejada, Berkman, Lee and Pence averaged, per 162 games:

.325 Avg
.378 OBP
.564 Slg
.942 OPS
47 2B
31 HR
120 R
124 RBI
17 SB
6 CS

Having almost half your line-up hitting like that will result in a lot of big innings.

AtascAstro · « **Reply #31 on:** May 28, 2008, 04:57:40 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 04:25:04 pm

"Yes! Who!?!?" - Drayton McLane

The handling of the 2007 shakeup was shameful...but in fairness, he's letting the baseball men do their job right now (amazing how effective that can be)

Noe · « **Reply #32 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:02:58 pm »

Quote from: AtascAstro on May 28, 2008, 04:57:40 pm

The handling of the 2007 shakeup was shameful...but in fairness, he's letting the baseball men do their job right now (amazing how effective that can be)

Thank Goodness someone bothered to break into Tal Smith's office when he was taking his very long nap to wake him up to the fact the Gardner led revolution was at his doorstep. Would hate to sleep through a coup, wouldn't you?

DVauthrin · « **Reply #33 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:05:17 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on May 28, 2008, 04:57:30 pm

Tejada, Berkman, Lee and Pence averaged, per 162 games:

.325 Avg
.378 OBP
.564 Slg
.942 OPS
47 2B
31 HR
120 R
124 RBI
17 SB
6 CS

Having almost half your line-up hitting like that will result in a lot of big innings.

The astros offense is like an elite prize fighter. They can knock you out at any time with one punch or they can keep delivering body blows(doesn't necessarily have to involve scoring runs) throughout the game until they get the knockout. Either way, you will be spent earlier than you wanted as a pitcher.

Noe · « **Reply #34 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:05:36 pm »

Quote from: MRaup on May 28, 2008, 04:53:00 pm

And Chris Burke followed him, which is a lot like Death in a lineup kind of sense.

ETA: fixed the quote...

If I were inclined to generate such a fine illustration, I would place Pence on a donkey just because he strikes me as such a Spaz. But you know, the Cisco Kid's sidekick Pancho rode a donkey too and was a bad hombre even though he was a Spaz most of the time too. Just when you think Pancho was some doopey guy in full marachi uniform, he'd pull out his pistola and bust a cap in you.

And smile as he did it too.

DVauthrin · « **Reply #35 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:07:36 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 05:05:36 pm

If I were inclined to generate such a fine illustration, I would place Pence on a donkey just because he strikes me as such a Spaz. But you know, the Cisco Kid's sidekick Pancho was a bad hombre even though he was a Spaz most of the time too. Just went you think Pancho was some doopey guy in full marachi uniform, he'd pull out his pistola and bust a cap in you.

And smile as he did it too.

So you would have Hunter riding Prince Albert the Jackass?

Noe · « **Reply #36 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:07:48 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on May 28, 2008, 04:55:35 pm

Thanks to the absolutely outstanding combination of how often Berkman is reaching base as well as how effectively Lee, Pence and Wigginton are driving him in, Berkman is on a pace to score 173 runs.

He's running his chubby little legs off this season. Viva El Caballero Numero Uno!

DVauthrin · « **Reply #37 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:10:31 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 05:07:48 pm

He's running his chubby little legs off this season. Viva El Caballero Numero Uno!

It must be the promise of "bacon" after every run scored that has Berkman running like his pants are on fire this season.

MusicMan · « **Reply #38 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:10:45 pm »

We can all agree that neither Berkman nor Lee are Famine, right?

Noe · « **Reply #39 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:12:06 pm »

Quote from: DVauthrin on May 28, 2008, 05:07:36 pm

So you would have Hunter riding Prince Albert the Jackass?

Don't insult donkeys.

I'd have the Quatro Caballeros riding over the NL Central team insignias though. They would be strewn over a valley of dead men's bones.

JimR · « **Reply #40 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:13:23 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 05:12:06 pm

Don't insult donkeys.

I'd have the Quatro Caballeros riding over the NL Central team insignias though. They would be strewn over a valley of dead men's bones.

and Isringhausen's cutter

tophfar · « **Reply #41 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:13:32 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 05:10:45 pm

We can all agree that neither Berkman nor Lee are Famine, right?

I suppose it all depends on where in the buffet line you are from them.

Noe · « **Reply #42 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:20:57 pm »

Quote from: tophfar on May 28, 2008, 05:13:32 pm

I suppose it all depends on where in the buffet line you are from them.

"Well, they're not leaving many ribeyes for me! Not that I'm complaining mind you... but come on!" - Ty Wiggington

Noe · « **Reply #43 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:21:31 pm »

Quote from: JimR on May 28, 2008, 05:13:23 pm

and Isringhausen's cutter

And Gagne's goatee.

DVauthrin · « **Reply #44 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:22:04 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 05:12:06 pm

Don't insult donkeys.

Even donkeys don't want to be associated with Pujols. I don't blame them.

MusicMan · « **Reply #45 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:22:57 pm »

Quote from: DVauthrin on May 28, 2008, 05:07:36 pm

So you would have Hunter riding Prince Albert the Jackass?

Only .093 gets to ride Albert.

DVauthrin · « **Reply #46 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:24:16 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 05:22:57 pm

Only .093 gets to ride Albert.

So that's his ride home after a long night of drinking. It's all starting to make sense now.

Limey · « **Reply #47 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:25:41 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 04:40:13 pm

Screw the "BLT and P" crap... these men must be called the new Four Horsemen.

I beheld a pale first baseman astride a pale horse, and the rider's name was Lance...

Pence = Pestilence
Tejada = Death
Berkman = War
Lee = Famine(?)

MusicMan · « **Reply #48 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:27:36 pm »

Quote from: Limey on May 28, 2008, 05:25:41 pm

Pence = Pestilence
Tejada = Death
Berkman = War
Lee = Famine(?)

Pence = Famine (he's a stick)
Tejada = War (the fiery leader)
Lee = Pestilence (process of elimination)
Berkman = Death (he's the pale rider)

remy · « **Reply #49 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:28:49 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 05:27:36 pm

Pence = Famine (he's a stick)
Tejada = War (the fiery leader)
Lee = Pestilence (process of elimination)
Berkman = Death (he's the pale rider)

Bingo.

Noe · « **Reply #50 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:29:09 pm »

The way Grantland Rice wrote the famous piece about the Four Horseman of Notre Dame:

Quote

"Outlined against a blue-gray October sky, the Four Horsemen rode again. In dramatic lore they are known as famine, pestilence, destruction and death. These are only aliases. Their real names are: Stuhldreher, Miller, Crowley and Layden. They formed the crest of the South Bend cyclone before which another fighting Army team was swept over the precipice at the Polo Grounds this afternoon as 55,000 spectators peered down upon the bewildering panorama spread out upon the green plain below."

We need a ruling from pravata.

otterjb · « **Reply #51 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:36:00 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on May 28, 2008, 05:22:57 pm

Only .093 gets to ride Albert.

That would be, maybe the most disturbing photoshop in the history of photoshops.

DVauthrin · « **Reply #52 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:38:10 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 05:29:09 pm

We need a ruling from pravata.

Where is the grand ferret anyway?

Noe · « **Reply #53 on:** May 28, 2008, 05:41:19 pm »

Quote from: DVauthrin on May 28, 2008, 05:38:10 pm

Where is the grand ferret anyway?

every five thousands post, you have to take the ferret in for a check up.

pravata · « **Reply #54 on:** May 28, 2008, 07:36:17 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on May 28, 2008, 05:29:09 pm

The way Grantland Rice wrote the famous piece about the Four Horseman of Notre Dame:

We need a ruling from pravata.

Not big on the Four Horseman thing. Especially find famine and pestilence difficult to fit in. When I think pestilence I think Fernando Vina.

pravata · « **Reply #55 on:** May 28, 2008, 07:45:44 pm »

in batting order,

Revelation
Devastation
Pitiless Justice
Pickle (or Destruction)

Noe · « **Reply #56 on:** May 28, 2008, 09:39:36 pm »

Quote from: pravata on May 28, 2008, 07:36:17 pm

Not big on the Four Horseman thing. Especially find famine and pestilence difficult to fit in. When I think pestilence I think Fernando Vina.

I wasn't too comfortable with the doom and gloom angle, so I was thinking that the four horsemen should be baseball themed... hitting. I can't think of all the right words to use, but idioms used for hitting like:

Masher
Rake
et. al.

Reuben · « **Reply #57 on:** May 29, 2008, 12:54:35 am »

Quote from: Jacksonian on May 28, 2008, 04:44:06 pm

Or a photoshopped SnS banner (by those capable of such things, not myself).

It would be hard to do better than Durer for a starting point...
Four Horsemen, context.
As for the photoshopping....ahem...paging JackAstro....

drew corleone · « **Reply #58 on:** May 29, 2008, 08:23:44 am »

Quote from: pravata on May 28, 2008, 07:36:17 pm

Not big on the Four Horseman thing. Especially find famine and pestilence difficult to fit in. When I think pestilence I think Fernando Vina.

I think Julian Tavarez.

remy · « **Reply #59 on:** May 29, 2008, 08:29:45 am »

Quote from: drew corleone on May 29, 2008, 08:23:44 am

I think Julian Tavarez.

Speaking of Freddy Krueger, he's back in the NL Central.

Emo Oranges · « **Reply #60 on:** May 29, 2008, 09:52:01 am »

Quote from: remy on May 29, 2008, 08:29:45 am

Speaking of Freddy Krueger, he's back in the NL Central.

How does this guy keep getting a job? Anytime I see him I think of the 95 World Series when he was with Cleveland and he was bawling his eyes out after losing the series.

JackAstro · « **Reply #61 on:** May 29, 2008, 11:35:55 am »

Quote from: Reuben on May 29, 2008, 12:54:35 am

It would be hard to do better than Durer for a starting point...
Four Horsemen, context.
As for the photoshopping....ahem...paging JackAstro....

I am torn.

On the one hand, this smacks of hubris, and that never ends well. Exhibit A is that rancid opening video they showed at then ~~Minute Maid Park~~ Enron Field (Idiot. - Ed.) in 2000... the one where the big digital choo-choo plowed through the logos of all the teams in the Central, detonating each with increasing ferocity. 90 losses later, that seemed like a monumentally stupid idea.

On the other hand, I support awesomeness in all of its many forms. So, yeah. I don't know what to do.

MRaup · « **Reply #62 on:** May 29, 2008, 12:00:46 pm »

Quote from: JackAstro on May 29, 2008, 11:35:55 am

I am torn.

On the one hand, this smacks of hubris, and that never ends well. Exhibit A is that rancid opening video they showed at then ~~Minute Maid Park~~ Enron Field (Idiot. - Ed.) in 2000... the one where the big digital choo-choo plowed through the logos of all the teams in the Central, detonating each with increasing ferocity. 90 losses later, that seemed like a monumentally stupid idea.

On the other hand, I support awesomeness in all of its many forms. So, yeah. I don't know what to do.

Just use teh funny.

Don't make it completely serious, make it tongue in cheeky!