Author Topic: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause  (Read 14565 times)

rambo2

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Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« on: April 22, 2008, 10:51:29 pm »
Peter Gammons on Baseball Tonight said that Oswalt might waive his no trade clause to go to a contender.  He said that Houston would be interested in getting 3 young pitchers for Oswalt.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2008, 10:54:00 pm »
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

pravata

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2008, 11:02:22 pm »
Peter Gammons is a dried up celery stalk who hasn't mumbled a coherent sentence on camera in 5 years.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 11:04:32 pm by pravata »

DVauthrin

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2008, 11:06:49 pm »
This was what I was referencing in the other thread on this issue(courtesy of chron.com prior to his opening day start).

Oswalt likes what he sees

Roy Oswalt, who will make his sixth consecutive opening day start tonight, said the Astros are the team to beat in the National League Central.
"A lot of people are counting us out early," he said. "I don't think they realize how good of a team we do have."

Specifically, Oswalt said the Astros' offense has the chance to be one of the best he's been a part of.

"We had a really good offense early in my career," he said. "Moises Alou was here, Baggy (Jeff Bagwell), Lance (Berkman), Jeff Kent, (Carlos) Beltran. We've had some pretty good hitters, but we do have a good offense. Hopefully, they'll score 10 runs a night."
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pravata

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2008, 11:11:26 pm »
This was what I was referencing in the other thread on this issue(courtesy of chron.com prior to his opening day start).

Oswalt likes what he sees

Roy Oswalt, who will make his sixth consecutive opening day start tonight, said the Astros are the team to beat in the National League Central.
"A lot of people are counting us out early," he said. "I don't think they realize how good of a team we do have."

Specifically, Oswalt said the Astros' offense has the chance to be one of the best he's been a part of.

"We had a really good offense early in my career," he said. "Moises Alou was here, Baggy (Jeff Bagwell), Lance (Berkman), Jeff Kent, (Carlos) Beltran. We've had some pretty good hitters, but we do have a good offense. Hopefully, they'll score 10 runs a night."


The primary fact that ESPN is missing, other than the essential truth that their collective skull landscape is a whistling savana of incoherent and vapid gibbering, is that the Astros have never, never ever, wanted to trade Roy.  So even if he was gasping to waive his no trade clause, he would not have the opportunity.  Listening to ESPN is a indication of a desperate desire to do yourself a mischief.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2008, 11:25:42 pm »
the essential truth that their collective skull landscape is a whistling savana of incoherent and vapid gibbering,

You give them too much credit.  Way too much.
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2008, 11:26:55 pm »
The primary fact that ESPN is missing, other than the essential truth that their collective skull landscape is a whistling savana of incoherent and vapid gibbering, is that the Astros have never, never ever, wanted to trade Roy.  So even if he was gasping to waive his no trade clause, he would not have the opportunity.  Listening to ESPN is a indication of a desperate desire to do yourself a mischief.

Oh I put no stock in their reporting.   I just wanted to show the the contradiction of this "report" and roy's comments opening day.
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pravata

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 11:38:05 pm »
Oh I put no stock in their reporting.   I just wanted to show the the contradiction of this "report" and roy's comments opening day.

It goes further back than that.  McLane doesnt give Roy a tractor if he intended to ever trade him.  A fucking tractor.  Have you ever heard of a team that understood and appreciated a player as thoroughly?  The Astros dont sign Carlos Lee for 6 years with the intention of trading Oswalt, they dont trade most of their young players for Miguel Tejada and Jose Valverde to then abandon their short term potential.  McLane's strategy has always been to brand the team.  The yammering classes thought they should have traded or released Bagwell and Biggio.  McLane kept them, not only because he thought they were good players, but also because he understands the marketing advantage of keeping recognizable players.  It's why he tried to sign Beltran and why he's willing to pay for the end of Carlos Lee's contract.  ESPN and the NY media doesnt and will never get this because they don't respect the Astros.  Their commentary on the team is without insight, understanding, or source. 

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2008, 11:48:57 pm »
Well said Pravata.

DVauthrin

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2008, 11:55:41 pm »
It goes further back than that.  McLane doesnt give Roy a tractor if he intended to ever trade him.  A fucking tractor.  Have you ever heard of a team that understood and appreciated a player as thoroughly?  The Astros dont sign Carlos Lee for 6 years with the intention of trading Oswalt, they dont trade most of their young players for Miguel Tejada and Jose Valverde to then abandon their short term potential.  McLane's strategy has always been to brand the team.  The yammering classes thought they should have traded or released Bagwell and Biggio.  McLane kept them, not only because he thought they were good players, but also because he understands the marketing advantage of keeping recognizable players.  It's why he tried to sign Beltran and why he's willing to pay for the end of Carlos Lee's contract.  ESPN and the NY media doesnt and will never get this because they don't respect the Astros.  Their commentary on the team is without insight, understanding, or source. 

Very true.    What's sad is the home town commentary on the team isn't much better.
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Noe

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2008, 12:05:53 am »
The core of the team that the Houston Astros intend to build around:

Lance Berkman
Roy Oswalt

The idea is build *around* those guys, not trade them away.  However, I have heard some of the dumbest speculation coming from the local and national media about trading either one of those men.  I heard some idiot on 790 last year (Davies?) continue to say that the Astros should trade Lance Berkman.  Why?  Because he wanted to get callers to call in, that is why. Nothing to do with what the Astros think or would do or even if Lance would waive his no-trade clause (oh yeah, forgot about that, eh Davey Boy?)... no, it was to hear himself talk and sound so swarmy saying it.  I later found out the guy is a Boston transplant doing radio in Houston.  How can anyone stomach a know-it-all Northeastern smug attitude radio personality make such pronunciations over the local nine?  I can't, guys like this have no real interest in what is the local team, they have more interest in their own career and how they think they can generate interest in getting folks to call in.  What it does is make me turn the radio off while I mutter "moron" under my breath at the guy.

Really, these guys are not even remotely invested in finding out what they're saying is even in the same ballpark, neighborhood, community... heck state... as to what is even remotely possible in the Astros camp and the players feelings.

They are interested in themselves... so really, any amount of disdain and/or laughing out loud at them is warranted.  In spades.  Freaking morons.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 12:07:57 am by Noe in Austin »

Noe

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2008, 12:19:45 am »
The primary fact that ESPN is missing, other than the essential truth that their collective skull landscape is a whistling savana of incoherent and vapid gibbering, is that the Astros have never, never ever, wanted to trade Roy.  So even if he was gasping to waive his no trade clause, he would not have the opportunity.  Listening to ESPN is a indication of a desperate desire to do yourself a mischief.

As you mentioned already in the previous thread about this very stupid reporting by ESPN (who else?).... Roy Oswalt was given a hypothetical about what it would take to get him to waive his no-trade clause by a local media person.  The answer he gave should never shock anyone because in a hypothetical world, what it would take is getting traded to a contender and Roy then added "if it will help the Houston Astros".  NOTE: Getting back Lastings Millege does not count as "help the Houston Astros", much to the chagrin of the Northeast media at the time who overhyped the young man.  You know what though, ask the same hypthetical question to any major leaguer and you'll get the same answer: no-trade clauses are negotiable if it means landing on a contender.  So guess what, a contender knows this and would never give the Astros anything to help them.  Nada, zip, zilch, zero.  Why should they?  They hold a leverage, so by and large the Astros don't even entertain the idea and Oswalt never asks them to either.

Roy Oswalt is locked up for many years to come and if a contender wants to gut itself to obtain Roy Oswalt, two things are bound to happen: The Astros would take the blood letting by a contender and Roy Oswalt would not waive his no-trade clause because a contender willing to gut itself to obtain him automatically becomes a non-contender.  No contender would do that, so the chances of anything happening that would send Roy Oswalt to a contender is slim and none.  No one will pay Houston price and if they did, Oswalt would not want to go there because a steep price will drop a contender out of contention.

Imagine the Brewers wanting Oswalt and Houston asking for Cecil Fielder, Ben Sheets and Manny Parra plus a minor league prospect.  Oswalt goes to a non-contender right away and Houston is laughing all the way to the bank that Milwaukee was that stupid.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2008, 12:21:21 am »
Listening to ESPN is a indication of a desperate desire to do yourself a mischief.

Did you watch Firefly?  That sounds very Joss Whedon-esqe.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2008, 12:26:24 am »
Did you watch Firefly?  That sounds very Joss Whedon-esqe.

Is this a joke?
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2008, 12:30:03 am »
Is this a joke?

Yes, very much so.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2008, 12:31:13 am »
Imagine the Brewers wanting Oswalt and Houston asking for Cecil Fielder, Ben Sheets and Manny Parra plus a minor league prospect.  Oswalt goes to a non-contender right away and Houston is laughing all the way to the bank that Milwaukee was that stupid.

Don't know that Cecil would be a steep price, he's 44 now.    
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2008, 12:36:46 am »
Don't know that Cecil would be a steep price, he's 44 now.     

I type too fast for my own good.  Okay, Prince Fielder, Manny Parra, Gallardo, Weeks and Bill Hall and they can have Oswalt.  And then the Astros and Brewers can trade places in the standings as well.  See how this will never happen?  No contender would pay Houston's price and if they did, they'd knock themselves out of contention the very minute they pulled the trigger.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2008, 12:38:47 am »
I type too fast for my own good.  Okay, Prince Fielder, Manny Parra, Gallardo, Weeks and Bill Hall and they can have Oswalt.  And then the Astros and Brewers can trade places in the standings as well.  See how this will never happen?  No contender would pay Houston's price and if they did, they'd knock themselves out of contention the very minute they pulled the trigger.

I was just giving you a hard time.   I know you meant prince, and I understood your point before you made it.   
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2008, 02:57:16 am »
It goes further back than that.  McLane doesnt give Roy a tractor if he intended to ever trade him.  A fucking tractor.

A fucking Caterpillar D6!

Can you imagine actually owning a bulldozer?

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2008, 07:40:47 am »
It goes further back than that.  McLane doesnt give Roy a tractor if he intended to ever trade him.  A fucking tractor.  Have you ever heard of a team that understood and appreciated a player as thoroughly?

It's more than you say.  They did not just give him a tractor.  In order to achieve this, they had to amend his contract to add the tractor to his remuneration package.  This wasn't a mere whim of the owner, the organisation put some time and effort in to making it happen.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2008, 08:28:17 am »
The way Tejada is hitting, it won't be long before they start the trade talk about him.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2008, 08:53:36 am »
The way Tejada is hitting, it won't be long before they start the trade talk about him.

No, they'll just wonder aloud how a player who suddenly aged two years and with such a "dark, shadowy past" suddenly improved his performance.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2008, 08:58:04 am »
I hear he's a voodoo priest.
Crazy Joe McCluskey was fucking nuts.  It's why they called him Crazy Joe.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2008, 10:25:50 am »
It's more than you say.  They did not just give him a tractor.  In order to achieve this, they had to amend his contract to add the tractor to his remuneration package.  This wasn't a mere whim of the owner, the organisation put some time and effort in to making it happen.

I never understood why they had to do that. Couldn't Drayton have just given Roy a tractor like it was a Christmas present or something?
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2008, 10:27:08 am »
I never understood why they had to do that. Couldn't Drayton have just given Roy a tractor like it was a Christmas present or something?

Probably two considerations:
1.  CBA
2.  Gift tax
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2008, 10:40:39 am »
Probably two considerations:
1.  CBA
2.  Gift tax

Wouldn't it be "income" as a bonus for his performance?
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2008, 10:42:19 am »
Wouldn't it be "income" as a bonus for his performance?

That's why it went into the contract.  If it's a "present", then it falls under gift tax; but if it's a bonus, then it has to be in the contract per the CBA.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2008, 10:46:31 am »
That's why it went into the contract.  If it's a "present", then it falls under gift tax; but if it's a bonus, then it has to be in the contract per the CBA.

Also, it sets a horrible precedent of "paying" players outside their contract.  So they avoid the potential of Player X saying "I want a 'dozer...but to save you the bother just give me the cash."  Every player gets what's in his contract, and Roy's says he gets a 'dozer!
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2008, 11:54:10 am »
Makes sense. Thanks.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2008, 12:23:28 pm »
 JdJO responds to the "trade rumors" in today's blog.
 
Quote
I'm writing this to set the record straight about an interview Oswalt did with me last year. Somehow, Oswalt's comments from last year have been twisted a bit recently by some other media to somewhat portray that Oswalt said in frustration last year that he'd be willing to accept a trade.



JdJO, July 12, 2007
Quote
The Boston Red Sox, Cleveland Indians and Detroit Tigers would like to acquire Lidge. The New York Mets are among the teams interested in Oswalt for the pennant stretch.

If the Astros approached Oswalt and told him it would be better for the franchise's future to trade him, he told the Chronicle two weeks ago he would consider waiving his no-trade clause.

...Oswalt is planning on remaining with the Astros, who will begin a nine-game trip Friday with the start of a three-game series against the Chicago Cubs at Wrigley Field.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2008, 12:53:57 pm »
JdJO responds to the "trade rumors" in today's blog.
 


JdJO, July 12, 2007

JdJO is right, he merely asked Oswalt a question and the context was clear... "IF the Astros asked him...", but somehow now the national media has Oswalt pining to go to a contender, re: The Yankees.

*sheesh*

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2008, 01:01:02 pm »
JdJO is right, he merely asked Oswalt a question and the context was clear... "IF the Astros asked him...", but somehow now the national media has Oswalt pining to go to a contender, re: The Yankees.

*sheesh*

He is "right" a year later. He should have made this clarification long ago.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2008, 01:02:50 pm »
He is "right" a year later. He should have made this clarification long ago.

In fairness to JdJO, I don't see how what he wrote is misleading.  The Mets were interested in Oswalt in much the same way that most here are interested in Scarlett Johanson.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2008, 01:07:29 pm »
In fairness to JdJO, I don't see how what he wrote is misleading.  The Mets were interested in Oswalt in much the same way that most here are interested in Scarlett Johanson.

Fine. If he felt he was clear, why post this now?
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pravata

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2008, 01:08:45 pm »
Fine. If he felt he was clear, why post this now?

I asked him about it.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2008, 01:09:20 pm »
I asked him about it.

Didn't Dick repeat this drivel as well?
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pravata

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2008, 01:18:25 pm »
Didn't Dick repeat this drivel as well?

I haven't been dipping into that cesspool much. 

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2008, 01:19:25 pm »
I haven't been dipping into that cesspool much. 

I meant last year. Not that I am asking you to dip into that cesspool for my benefit.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2008, 01:22:43 pm »
In fairness to JdJO, I don't see how what he wrote is misleading.  The Mets were interested in Oswalt in much the same way that most here are interested in Scarlett Johanson.

JJO ran around the clubhouse with a dumb question and got the obvious answer that the front office had no interest whatsoever in trading their ace pitcher, only to take Roy's hypothetical yes to a hypothetical question as cover to start a rumor that the Astros might still trade him even though they'd just told the little twit otherwise.


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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2008, 01:26:01 pm »
Fine. If he felt he was clear, why post this now?

Because he's using it as another chance to inject himself into his "reporting."

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2008, 01:41:05 pm »
In related news, Roy to the O's will never, ever die.

Quote
McLane did approve a potential 2006 deal at the trade deadline that would have sent Oswalt to the Orioles (who then would have flipped him to the Mets).
Here are just a few of the key ingredients: dynamite, pole vaulting, laughing gas, choppers - can you see how incredible this is going to be?

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2008, 01:53:49 pm »
morons,

http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=77194.0

Apparently Illuminatis are the only ones allowed to view that link.
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2008, 01:57:01 pm »
Apparently Illuminatis are the only ones allowed to view that link.

Wonder what he gets for 20,000 posts.  I think Illuminati is currently the highest rank.
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pravata

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2008, 01:57:19 pm »
Apparently Illuminatis are the only ones allowed to view that link.

Baltimore asked for Oswalt, Astros said we'll think about it.  There was never a formal offer made, it was all talk.  The Orioles, before the Astros responded to their proposal, started shopping Oswalt when there was never a deal.

pravata

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2008, 02:00:01 pm »
Apparently Illuminatis are the only ones allowed to view that link.

A seizure from chasing down all these facachta rumors.

Noe

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2008, 02:01:32 pm »
JJO ran around the clubhouse with a dumb question and got the obvious answer that the front office had no interest whatsoever in trading their ace pitcher, only to take Roy's hypothetical yes to a hypothetical question as cover to start a rumor that the Astros might still trade him even though they'd just told the little twit otherwise.

Actually, because last year was a down year (complete with firings of the GM and Manager), it made sense to speculate about rebuilding the team.  So Berkman and Oswalt could bring back quite a rebuilding haul.  However, both have no-trade clauses.  Why did JdJO ask Oswalt?  Because of their relationship, plain and simple.  Fair?  I dunno, I'm not a reporter to say one way or another, but overall, not a dumb question to ask if everything swirling around the Astros last year smacked of rebuilding.

That is until Drayton McLane spoke up and let everyone know within earshot "I don't rebuild, I reload!".  End of story, end of speculation, end of hypotheticals.  But the National media is a little slow on the uptake it seems.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2008, 02:01:46 pm »
A seizure from chasing down all these facachta rumors.

You're so fancy.  I make my rumour-sandwiches with normal bread.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2008, 02:17:23 pm »
Footer sets the record straight.   This is linked on MLB's home page

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2008, 02:18:24 pm »
Footer sets the record straight.   This is linked on MLB's home page

Link is in our SnS Home Page, courtesy of NYCU (always on top of the news!)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 02:20:04 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2008, 02:19:59 pm »
Link is in our SnS Home Page, courtesy of NYCU (always on top of the news!)

Didn't check there first though I should have.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2008, 02:23:30 pm »
Actually, because last year was a down year (complete with firings of the GM and Manager), it made sense to speculate about rebuilding the team.  So Berkman and Oswalt could bring back quite a rebuilding haul.  However, both have no-trade clauses.  Why did JdJO ask Oswalt?  Because of their relationship, plain and simple.  Fair?  I dunno, I'm not a reporter to say one way or another, but overall, not a dumb question to ask if everything swirling around the Astros last year smacked of rebuilding.

That is until Drayton McLane spoke up and let everyone know within earshot "I don't rebuild, I reload!".  End of story, end of speculation, end of hypotheticals.  But the National media is a little slow on the uptake it seems.

Maybe I'm being too critical because I am biased against JJO, but the problem I have with his original story is his inclusion of Oswalt's hypothetical yes when the Astros brass gave Ortiz a concrete "no". IMO the only reason he left that in was to leave open the possibility that the front office might trade Oswalt anyway, despite their explicit denial. The Astros were as clear as they could be, but that didn't fit Ortiz's purposes. He wanted to be the go-to guy for trade deadline yammering, so it wasn't in his interests to shut down the Oswalt trade talk. His response today kinda proves that point--it's all about Jose.


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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2008, 02:24:15 pm »
I vote that we merge this thread with the other one about the Oswalt trade hogwash.

Anyone with me?
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2008, 02:28:23 pm »
Footer sets the record straight.   This is linked on MLB's home page

Compare the headlines.

Footer article: "Astros holding tight to Oswalt"

JJO: "Yankees need not apply for Oswalt, barring some crazy mad cash"

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2008, 02:28:50 pm »
I vote that we merge this thread with the other one about the Oswalt trade hogwash.

Anyone with me?

sure

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2008, 02:44:10 pm »
Maybe I'm being too critical because I am biased against JJO, but the problem I have with his original story is his inclusion of Oswalt's hypothetical yes when the Astros brass gave Ortiz a concrete "no". IMO the only reason he left that in was to leave open the possibility that the front office might trade Oswalt anyway, despite their explicit denial. The Astros were as clear as they could be, but that didn't fit Ortiz's purposes. He wanted to be the go-to guy for trade deadline yammering, so it wasn't in his interests to shut down the Oswalt trade talk. His response today kinda proves that point--it's all about Jose.

I think the relationship that JdJO has with Oswalt (whether we like the idea or not, it's a true relationship) made it viable for him to ask.  Did it have context?  Yes.  Has it been twisted to be "Oswalt wanting a trade..."?  Yes, but not by the original questioner.  The bigger picture to me here is how this is commonplace now for the media at large.

Lazy?

Somewhat, yes.  Several years ago, Tracy Rigolsby (sp?), an admired baseball writer who deserves his props, could not begin to report the "Roger Clemens returning to the Astros in May" story correctly.  Rigolsby instead had Clemens and McLane on the outs because of some bad blood he thought had happened when the Astros decided to pass on granting Clemens arbitration.  What was the source of this whole story?  Rigolsby would not say, but stood behind his reporting and told everyone possible that Clemens had no intentions of returning to the Astros for any amount of money, the damage was done by McLane (who he also accused of being the owner who ran Nolan Ryan out of town... ahum... that was John J. McMullen).  Rigolsby had it on good authority that Clemens was going to return to the Boston Red Sox.

Some folks here wrote Rigolsby e-mails to try and correct at the very least his error on the Nolan Ryan factoid, which to my knowledge was never corrected in the column he wrote.  I wrote Rigolsby to ask him where he got his information about hard feelings between McLane and Clemens, because my source told me the two were very close and that McLane would break the bank for Clemens in May and Roger knew that and had no hard feelings about the arbitration issue... because Clemens had no intentions of returning to play baseball until May any way.  Rigolsby would not say, but said he had solid information on this story.

Well, he was wrong... not only wrong, but dead wrong, with capital "D" and capital "W" type of Dead Wrong!  Not even close to being anywhere near right.  He was eons away from capturing one item correct in his story of Clemens and McLane.  That April, Clemens signed for 22 million dollars to return to the Houston Astros.  Where could the information have come from to make Rigolsby go with the story?  Could it have been the Hendricks brothers floating information to Rigolsby to make sure McLane would not be tight fisted with his money?  I dunno, all I know was Rigolsby would not listen to what anyone else was telling him, including me via e-mail that he was going to look very bad on this story.

No one really cared afterwards, so I was wrong on that point.  But Rigolsby lost a little with me after that and I rarely read him any more.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2008, 02:47:49 pm »
...No one really cared afterwards, so I was wrong on that point.  But Rigolsby lost a little with me after that and I rarely read him any more.

He got the Astros should have known Jennings was injured story wrong and then got nasty about it.  He's on the double verify list,  along with everyone else right now except Footer and Duarte.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2008, 02:50:09 pm »
He got the Astros should have known Jennings was injured story wrong and then got nasty about it.  He's on the double verify list,  along with everyone else right now except Footer and Duarte.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2008, 02:56:51 pm »
He got the Astros should have known Jennings was injured story wrong and then got nasty about it.  He's on the double verify list,  along with everyone else right now except Footer and Duarte.

Many years ago, Telemundo GM Carrasco (if I remember his name correctly) accused Drayton McLane of saying some racist remarks at a banquet.  The local media ran with the story the next day and the furor was on.  McLane was furious in his denials, but no one would listen to him.  Taking a lead in the public lynching of McLane was a local Tejano Music station and of course then Chronicle columnist John P. Lopez.  The infamous "where there is smoke, there is fire" lead for his column that basically condemned McLane as a racist was hard to read because it had all passion, no fact.

The problem with this sort of "reporting" was that the columnist views were picked up Nationally as fact supported views (which was not) and they, the National media ran with it.  JD Alande and others wrote heated opinions about McLane, as if he were the reincarnation of Marge Schott.  In fact, one write did call him the new Marge Schott.  When a friend of mine confronted Austin columnist Kirk Bohls on his condemnation of McLane as a racist, Bohls could not defend the facts to support his column.  He then admitted to my friend that he picked up the story from Lopez and thought that the facts were already in place to support the views.

Lazy?  Yes, in those ways, very much so.

pravata

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2008, 03:00:24 pm »
...Chronicle columnist John P. Lopez.  ...

Has found his true calling and is a front man for a jumped up limousine service.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2008, 03:17:14 pm »
Lazy?  Yes, in those ways, very much so.

[SOAPBOX ALERT] If it were just 'lazy,' it wouldn't bother me as much.  However, it's much deeper than that.  Sleez sells, and that coupled with virtually no accountability makes 'journalists' dangerous.  The 'actual malice' standard required to hold journalists 'responsible' might have been appropriate back in the day with the vaunted 'Fourth Estate' practiced something even remotely akin to 'responsible journalism,' but that day and age has long since past and 'actual malice' just doesn't cut it anymore.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2008, 03:19:50 pm »
[SOAPBOX ALERT] If it were just 'lazy,' it wouldn't bother me as much.  However, it's much deeper than that.  Sleez sells, and that coupled with virtually no accountability makes 'journalists' dangerous.  The 'actual malice' standard required to hold journalists 'responsible' might have been appropriate back in the day with the vaunted 'Fourth Estate' practiced something even remotely akin to 'responsible journalism,' but that day and age has long since past and 'actual malice' just doesn't cut it anymore.

good luck with that rant.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2008, 03:25:37 pm »
good luck with that rant.

Didn't include the "SOAP BOX ALERT" warning for nothing...
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2008, 03:29:47 pm »
I think the relationship that JdJO has with Oswalt (whether we like the idea or not, it's a true relationship) made it viable for him to ask.  Did it have context?  Yes.  Has it been twisted to be "Oswalt wanting a trade..."?  Yes, but not by the original questioner.  The bigger picture to me here is how this is commonplace now for the media at large.

I agree whole-heartedly with your points about the media at large deliberately twisting this story, but I think you're being too generous to JJO here. If anyone's lost the benefit of the doubt, it's Jose de Jesus Ortiz. He says he was assigned a story about the potential trade possibilities the Astros could pursue at the deadline. The front office explicitly told him "we're not trading Roy."

Here's the text from the story:

Quote
Owner Drayton McLane is in Poland until Sunday, so it seems Garner and Purpura are safe. Now, fans must wait to see if the Astros will be sellers or buyers in the trade market.

"We talked to some clubs at the All-Star break and are on almost daily contact with clubs," Purpura said.

The Boston Red Sox, Cleveland Indians and Detroit Tigers would like to acquire Lidge. The New York Mets are among the teams interested in Oswalt for the pennant stretch.

If the Astros approached Oswalt and told him it would be better for the franchise's future to trade him, he told the Chronicle two weeks ago he would consider waiving his no-trade clause. During the Astros' four-game series against the Mets, Billy Wagner told Oswalt that playing in New York isn't that bad.

The untouchables

Oswalt, Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee have no-trade clauses, and Purpura is unwilling to feed those guys to the sharks trying to pounce.

"I made it very clear to people we have no interest in trading any of our long-term guys — Roy, Carlos and Lance," Purpura said. "They're the core of our club."

With that said, Purpura would consider offers for some of his other players who have no-trade clauses. On that front, Lidge, Jason Jennings, Mark Loretta and Mike Lamb appear to have the most trade value.

For example, doesn't the story read truer this way?

Quote
Owner Drayton McLane is in Poland until Sunday, so it seems Garner and Purpura are safe. Now, fans must wait to see if the Astros will be sellers or buyers in the trade market.

"We talked to some clubs at the All-Star break and are on almost daily contact with clubs," Purpura said.

The Boston Red Sox, Cleveland Indians and Detroit Tigers would like to acquire Lidge. The New York Mets are among the teams interested in Oswalt for the pennant stretch.

If the Astros approached Oswalt and told him it would be better for the franchise's future to trade him, he told the Chronicle two weeks ago he would consider waiving his no-trade clause. During the Astros' four-game series against the Mets, Billy Wagner told Oswalt that playing in New York isn't that bad.


The untouchables

Oswalt, Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee have no-trade clauses, and Purpura is unwilling to feed those guys to the sharks trying to pounce.

"I made it very clear to people we have no interest in trading any of our long-term guys — Roy, Carlos and Lance," Purpura said. "They're the core of our club."

With that said, Purpura would consider offers for some of his other players who have no-trade clauses. On that front, Lidge, Jason Jennings, Mark Loretta and Mike Lamb appear to have the most trade value.

Why did JJO put such emphasis on Oswalt's hypothetical yes? Why is the Oswalt stuff above the answer that Tim Purpura gave? Why does he include Billy Wagner's opinion of playing in New York? Why did he write that Oswalt is "planning on remaining" with the Astros?

I think it's clearly because he didn't want to extinguish the rumor. He's a big part of this bullshit coming up again, and even in setting the record straight today, he proceeds to lay out what teams Oswalt would be willing to play for.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 03:33:56 pm by matadorph »

pravata

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2008, 03:40:36 pm »
to be fairer than I usually am, at the time, the radio listeners in Houston were yammering that the Astros should trade to improve the team.  When confronted with the no trade clauses they further yammered that Lee, Oswalt, inexplicably Berkman would probably waive their clauses.  So JJO went and asked.  He coached the responses in the most sensational way possible, and Withered Celery Stick Whitey has somehow found this cow flop in the road and decided to exhale his mouldering breath in an attempt to draw more attention to the listing ESPN broadcast.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2008, 04:42:35 pm »
... Withered Celery Stick Whitey has somehow found this cow flop in the road and decided to exhale his mouldering breath in an attempt to draw more attention to the listing ESPN broadcast.

Dude, take it easy on Skeletor. It's a serious condition.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2008, 04:51:04 pm »
Which had the more obvious homoerotic subtext:

He-Man or Top Gun?

Discuss.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #67 on: April 24, 2008, 04:53:23 pm »
Which had the more obvious homoerotic subtext:

He-Man or Top Gun?

Discuss.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2008, 04:54:37 pm »
Did He Man oil up to play volleyball with other guys?
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2008, 04:55:26 pm »
Did He Man oil up to play volleyball with other guys?
Touche'
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2008, 04:56:48 pm »
to be fairer than I usually am, at the time, the radio listeners in Houston were yammering that the Astros should trade to improve the team.  When confronted with the no trade clauses they further yammered that Lee, Oswalt, inexplicably Berkman would probably waive their clauses.  So JJO went and asked.  He coached the responses in the most sensational way possible, and Withered Celery Stick Whitey has somehow found this cow flop in the road and decided to exhale his mouldering breath in an attempt to draw more attention to the listing ESPN broadcast.

Eggzactly.  The climate around the Houston Astros at the time was one of "they have to rebuild, who can they trade?".  It was a natural story to pursue, IMHO.

The story *today* about Oswalt is baffling and clearly out of left field.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2008, 05:01:52 pm »
Eggzactly.  The climate around the Houston Astros at the time was one of "they have to rebuild, who can they trade?".  It was a natural story to pursue, IMHO.

The story *today* about Oswalt is baffling and clearly out of left field.

I don't think it is baffling, when you consider which AL East teams would want/need him.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2008, 05:02:33 pm »
Did He Man oil up to play volleyball with other guys?

Did He-Man leave Kelly McGillis waiting during said volleyball game, then, once she was all revved up and ready to go, leave?
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2008, 05:05:47 pm »
I don't think it is baffling, when you consider which AL East teams would want/need him.

Any non-story made into a story is baffling, but you're point is well made... this was a story for the benefit and edification and glory of Northeastern fans of baseball, namely Boston and New York.  The story the Onion once put out that George Steinbrenner bought all the players in the MLB so there was no one left to play against has more validity than the crap that ESPN now produces as stories, because the Onion at least does not pander to New York or Boston.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2008, 05:08:29 pm »
Eggzactly.  The climate around the Houston Astros at the time was one of "they have to rebuild, who can they trade?".  It was a natural story to pursue, IMHO.

The story *today* about Oswalt is baffling and clearly out of left field.

That climate among the fans has not gone away, not by a longshot, largely driven by the reported state of the farm system.  Obviously, the only way to fix that is by sacrificing the near term for the far.  There is no middle ground, apparently.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2008, 05:35:10 pm »
Which had the more obvious homoerotic subtext:

He-Man or Top Gun?

Discuss.

Your answer becomes clear about 1:30 in...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Nc8RCLy1s
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2008, 05:38:03 pm »
Eggzactly.  The climate around the Houston Astros at the time was one of "they have to rebuild, who can they trade?".  It was a natural story to pursue, IMHO.

The story *today* about Oswalt is baffling and clearly out of left field.

I also think we should distinguish between pursuing a story and creating one that doesn't exist.

I understand that many of the monkeys on the airwaves were screaming to burn the team down and start over, but that's no justification for fanning the flames. Billy Wagner's opinion about living and playing in NY had no bearing on anything, but JJO inserted it to sensationalize his story.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2008, 05:49:15 pm »

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2008, 08:07:52 pm »
Which had the more obvious homoerotic subtext:

He-Man or Top Gun?

Discuss.

Yes, Top Gun did have the volleyball scene and Cruise gently cradling his fallen friend Goose's head and weeping, but at least he ended up with McGillis the hot defense contractor.  He-Man spent his life in fuzzy underwear wrestling with a furry (Beast Man) and fighting a guy who's basically a euphemism for an erection (Skeletor = bones) while allying himself with Ram Man (the name and look at the guy, you'll see what I mean).  Prince Adam obviously was confused.  Plus, as far as I know, not even the Dolph Lundgren He-Man ended up breaking through Teela's, the Sorceress', She-Ra's or even Evil-Lyn's castle gates.  All in all, I think He-Man pings higher on the Gaydar.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2008, 08:44:23 am »
Which had the more obvious homoerotic subtext:

He-Man or Top Gun?

Discuss.

Exhibit A: Top Gun Recut http://youtube.com/watch?v=ekXxi9IKZSA

Exhibit B: [paraphrased]
Letterman: So, have you ever played a gay character before Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang
Kilmer: You mean, other than in Top Gun?
Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2008, 09:34:07 am »
He-Man couldn't be gay.  What self-respecting gay man would sport the Prince Valiant?
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2008, 09:47:16 am »
He-Man couldn't be gay.  What self-respecting gay man would sport the Prince Valiant?

Exactly.
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2008, 12:34:28 pm »

For example, doesn't the story read truer this way?

Quote
The untouchables

Oswalt, Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee have no-trade clauses, and Purpura is unwilling to feed those guys to the sharks trying to pounce.


If you are going to re-write JdJO's article, couldn't you at least do something about his horrible pouncing sharks metaphor?
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Re: Gammons says that Oswalt may waive no trade clause
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2008, 12:35:50 pm »
I also think we should distinguish between pursuing a story and creating one that doesn't exist.

I understand that many of the monkeys on the airwaves were screaming to burn the team down and start over, but that's no justification for fanning the flames. Billy Wagner's opinion about living and playing in NY had no bearing on anything, but JJO inserted it to sensationalize his story.

That's where I stand on this too, FWIW.  I hate that whatever the dumbasses say that call in to talk radio is considered "news".  Unfortunately, just about all news reporting has become entertainment programming now.  JJO could probably be excused for thinking he's doing his job, considering his employer keeps rewarding him with a salary for his incompetence.