Burke

[JimR]

Man, I like seeing him in another team's uni.

[Phil_in_CS]

I don't know know what I was expecting Coach to say about Burke, but that made me laugh...

[kevwun]

The dbacks hitting coach must suck.  He hasn't miraculously fixed Burke's swing yet.

[Bench]

The dbacks hitting coach must suck.  He hasn't miraculously fixed Burke's swing yet.

.387 BA, .486 OBP and .839 SLG so far this spring including 5 doubles and 3 homeruns.

D-backs stats

From four days ago:

"Burke is hitting .363 this spring, with four doubles, a homer and five RBIs. He said his work in the cage with batting coach Rick Schu is paying off."

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gfH_BnlzqcGjT3K9wOulQ1rEiwWg

[otterjb]

Burke always seemed to share certain parallels with David Carr (and his dainty white gloves). nttawwt.

[kevwun]

Thanks for posting that.  I thought we were going to miss out on the usual spiel about the new hitting coach.  He's going on his post-Astros short lived tear way too early, though.  He'll be back to the Chris Burke we know and love by May.

[pravata]

Thanks for posting that.  I thought we were going to miss out on the usual spiel about the new hitting coach.  He's going on his post-Astros short lived tear way too early, though.  He'll be back to the Chris Burke we know and love by May.

Or not.  Maybe he's figured it out.  But he definitely didn't when he was an Astro.

[Ty in Tampa]

Or not.  Maybe he's figured it out.  But he definitely didn't when he was an Astro.

And if he has figured it out, good for him.

[pravata]

And if he has figured it out, good for him.

You bet.

[Limey]

.387 BA, .486 OBP and .839 SLG so far this spring including 5 doubles and 3 homeruns.

He always did swing for the fences, even when it was exactly the wrong thing to do.  Once pitchers stop working on pitches and start actually pitching, he'll revert to being a human hairdryer in no time.

[VirtualBob]

He always did swing for the fences, even when it was exactly the wrong thing to do.  Once pitchers stop working on pitches and start actually pitching, he'll revert to being a human hairdryer in no time.

Right-o.  The fact that he actually thinks these stats are a good thing is what is so amazing.  If this is the time when pitcher's ERA's don't really matter, what makes him think his ST XBH totals are indications that he has turned things around?

I wish him well, but he's his own worst enemy.  If he and Morgan Ensberg could take an average of the amount of time they spend thinking, they might both be decent major leaguers.

[Limey]

Right-o.  The fact that he actually thinks these stats are a good thing is what is so amazing.  If this is the time when pitcher's ERA's don't really matter, what makes him think his ST XBH totals are indications that he has turned things around?

I wish him well, but he's his own worst enemy.  If he and Morgan Ensberg could take an average of the amount of time they spend thinking, they might both be decent major leaguers.

He's hitting the snot out of the ball in BP.  That's just the same as doing it in the game, right?

[VirtualBob]

He's hitting the snot out of the ball in BP.  That's just the same as doing it in the game, right?

Right.

And by the way, are you interested in a great land deal in Florida?

[MikeyBoy]

He's hitting the snot out of the ball in BP.  That's just the same as doing it in the game, right?

Absolutely. Just like the 70 I shot today...at the driving range.

[JimR]

Just singled up the middle

[NeilT]

So what gives on Matsui's surgery? 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Right-o.  The fact that he actually thinks these stats are a good thing is what is so amazing. 

Then Burke must have thought Hunter got the shaft when he, and not Pence, made the Astros out of ST last year. The stats are a good thing in spite of any downplay, better than hitting .170 in ST. He's got all April and May to do that.

[NeilT]

He's hitting the snot out of the ball in BP.  That's just the same as doing it in the game, right?

I used to have that Dave Clark V album.  First record I ever owned that wasn't cowboy songs.  It was pretty good, but for the long run I'll take the cowboy songs.

I'm still curious what Burke's gonna do now that he's out of Houston.  It'll be fun to watch.  You may disagree, but if it's a choice between your 2d baseman having asshole surgery or hitting .395, I think I'd rather my 2d baseman be hitting .395.

[JimR]

Good, root for the DBacks.

[MusicMan]

You may disagree, but if it's a choice between your 2d baseman having asshole surgery or hitting .395, I think I'd rather my 2d baseman be hitting .395.

Commonly known as a "falce choice".

[Burzmali]

I used to have that Dave Clark V album.  First record I ever owned that wasn't cowboy songs.  It was pretty good, but for the long run I'll take the cowboy songs.

I'm still curious what Burke's gonna do now that he's out of Houston.  It'll be fun to watch.  You may disagree, but if it's a choice between your 2d baseman having asshole surgery or hitting .395, I think I'd rather my 2d baseman be hitting .395.

I always liked Burke, he never got a chance to play a full season at his position and he got traded right before he possibly could have stepped in. I hope he does well, I think he has the ability.

[NeilT]

I always liked Burke, he never got a chance to play a full season at his position and he got traded right before he possibly could have stepped in. I hope he does well, I think he has the ability.

Maybe, maybe not.  Most people think Burke's ability is flawed.  I don't think I ever reached a conclusion.  I always liked Burke pretty well, though.  I thought at his best he had speed, a nice approach at the plate, and ok defense.  He seemed to me a pretty good guy in the clubhouse, who did what he was told and only had one blow-up in a tough career.  I thought last year he'd be a good center fielder with some offensive ability, but he wasn't.  At his worst, last year, he looked lost.  But I always thought he was fun to watch.  He's been fun to follow in spring training. I'm not rooting for the Diamondbacks, though.  Nor am I rooting against Burke, though Jim seems happiest when he is.  You gotta get your pleasure where you find it.

[NeilT]

Commonly known as a "falce choice".

I don't understand.  "Falce" is the Italian for sickle?

[Mr. Happy]

I always liked Burke, he never got a chance to play a full season at his position and he got traded right before he possibly could have stepped in. I hope he does well, I think he has the ability.

Good. Root for him. Do you require assistance in getting to the Snakes' unoffical fan website?

[JimR]

Bullshit Burke never got a chance. Beside failing in his chance, he sulked, whined and pouted. I do not care if he hits .600 elsewhere. I am glad he is there.

[Rebel Jew]

Bullshit Burke never got a chance. Beside failing in his chance, he sulked, whined and pouted. I do not care if he hits .600 elsewhere. I am glad he is there.

that first year of his in round rock was not fun to watch, from the games i saw.  the brooks conrad era was a breath of fresh air when it came.

[chuck]

One at bat aside the Astros would have been better off with David Newhan on the roster instead of Burke for the entirety of his tenure.

[Noe]

I always liked Burke, he never got a chance to play a full season at his position...

Who was it I saw all those years at Round Rock playing second base then?  He was less than impressive as a defender, so his role as a ubber utility guy fits him. The D'Backs are going to use him that way, Houston wanted to use him that way.  It is no secret to anyone who paid attention to what happened this offseason.  Burke's attitude about being a ubber utility guy was in question though.  It was going to hurt the club if he did what he typically did with these sort of decisions, because he doesn't take these sort of decisions well. He now gets to tell the D'Backs how wrong they are for making him a utility player.

So are the D'Backs intending to replce Hudson with Burke?  If so, there is going to be a ton of teams lining up to acquire Hudson from them if they're that dumb.

[Noe]

that first year of his in round rock was not fun to watch, from the games i saw.  the brooks conrad era was a breath of fresh air when it came.

Eggszactly!  Burke never showed how adept he was going to be as a middle infielder defensively.  At short stop he had huge flaws.  Second base was his best chance for a starting job and that didn't go well either in the minors.  Purpura gave him a chance to play centerfield and fans and media blasted him *for giving Burke that chance*!  They kept crying for Hunter Pence.  I don't get it when fans say Chris Burke never got a chance.

Seriously.

[Burzmali]

Good. Root for him. Do you require assistance in getting to the Snakes' unoffical fan website?

I will root for him. That doesn't equate to rooting for the D-Backs, thanks for your offer though.

[Burzmali]

Who was it I saw all those years at Round Rock playing second base then?  He was less than impressive as a defender, so his role as a ubber utility guy fits him. The D'Backs are going to use him that way, Houston wanted to use him that way.  It is no secret to anyone who paid attention to what happened this offseason.  Burke's attitude about being a ubber utility guy was in question though.  It was going to hurt the club if he did what he typically did with these sort of decisions, because he doesn't take these sort of decisions well. He now gets to tell the D'Backs how wrong they are for making him a utility player.

So are the D'Backs intending to replce Hudson with Burke?  If so, there is going to be a ton of teams lining up to acquire Hudson from them if they're that dumb.

The difference is that the DBacks already had an incumbent 2B. Just because they aren't going to play him at 2B doesn't mean they don't think he could be a starter at 2B.

[Andyzipp]

The difference is that the DBacks already had an incumbent 2B. Just because they aren't going to play him at 2B doesn't mean they don't think he could be a starter at 2B.

I don't care much one way or the other if stats or scouting is your preferred measure of evaluation, but anyone who ever watched Burke play any infield position can't possibly think he should be an everyday, or "Starting" player.  Limited Range is the best asset he has going for him.  No arm, and maybe the worst footwork I've ever seen on the professional level.

[Noe]

The difference is that the DBacks already had an incumbent 2B.

Like Craig Biggio?

Just because they aren't going to play him at 2B doesn't mean they don't think he could be a starter at 2B.

If you read what Melvin said about Burke, you may want to take back this statement.  They like Burke's versatility and ability to play *multiple* position.  IOW - he's an ubber utility guy in their eyes similar to how the Astros saw him as his career.  Burke hated the idea and begged to be traded.  He got his wish.

You ever spend any amount of time watching Burke play *every day* at second base?  If so, your statement about the D'Backs is incredible.

[Bench]

The difference is that the DBacks already had an incumbent 2B. Just because they aren't going to play him at 2B doesn't mean they don't think he could be a starter at 2B.

Wait... what? That makes absolutely no sense. The Astros didn't already have an incumbent 2B the last three (or 15) years? How is the "shot" Arizona is giving Burke better than the Astros handing him a starting spot in the lineup last year?

This crowing that the Astros never gave him a chance to succeed is complete horseshit. He got chance after chance in Houston and failed to make the most of it.

[Noe]

Wait... what? That makes absolutely no sense. The Astros didn't already have an incumbent 2B the last three (or 15) years? How is the "shot" Arizona is giving Burke better than the Astros handing him a starting spot in the lineup last year?

This crowing that the Astros never gave him a chance to succeed is complete horseshit. He got chance after chance in Houston and failed to make the most of it.

EGGSZACTLY!  That is the *part* of Burzy's post that was incredible.

[Burzmali]

Like Craig Biggio?

If you read what Melvin said about Burke, you may want to take back this statement.  They like Burke's versatility and ability to play *multiple* position.  IOW - he's an ubber utility guy in their eyes similar to how the Astros saw him as his career.  Burke hated the idea and begged to be traded.  He got his wish.

You ever spend any amount of time watching Burke play *every day* at second base?  If so, your statement about the D'Backs is incredible.

Exactly, he never got a shot because of Bidge, then he got traded when the incumbent left. I'm not saying he should have played over Bidge..

No I only saw him play sporadically at the ML level, seemed to play the position at least at a league average level. Certainly better than Kent, certainly better than late career Biggio.

Anyway, it's done and I wish him the best.

[Burzmali]

Wait... what? That makes absolutely no sense. The Astros didn't already have an incumbent 2B the last three (or 15) years? How is the "shot" Arizona is giving Burke better than the Astros handing him a starting spot in the lineup last year?

This crowing that the Astros never gave him a chance to succeed is complete horseshit. He got chance after chance in Houston and failed to make the most of it.

No, that wasn't what I was trying to say.

My point was that just because the DBacks are going to use him as a utility infielder doesn't necessarily mean they don't think he could play 2B. They already had Hudson. It's possible that they do think he could play 2B.

[Noe]

Exactly, he never got a shot because of Bidge, then he got traded when the incumbent left. I'm not saying he should have played over Bidge..

Two words: Jeff Kent.  How does your above statement jive with the acquisition of Kent by the Astros.  Think about it long and hard.

No I only saw him play sporadically at the ML level, seemed to play the position at least at a league average level. Certainly better than Kent, certainly better than late career Biggio.

Then you don't know how badly he can play the position *on an every day* proposition.   And he was never better than Kent or Biggio, all he had over them is slighty better range, but he didn't know how to handle that position at all.

Anyway, it's done and I wish him the best.

Same here, but his departure is entirely different from that of Adam Everett, who did not get traded but was *released*.  AE's statements when he left showed the class he had.  Statements that Burke made when he was demoted last year and also known statements said to the organization showed how Burke viewed himself.  We've tried to tell you already that Burke will soon enough give grief to the D'Backs for not giving him a starting job... it's inevitable.  See, being a guy who wants to start and thinks he should is one thing, being one that sulks, whines and basically looks out for himself is quite another.

I wish him well, but I'm glad he's now got a totally different organization to complain to.

[JimR]

You are so full of shit. If he could play the position better than Kent, he would still be in Houston. The folks who watched him play every day moved him to the OF, then into a utility role.

Go away, Burzmali. I cannot take your redundant drivel all year.

[Mr. Happy]

If Burke had been the second coming at 2B, the Astros would have moved Biggio. The simple fact is that Burke couldn't beat out Biggio. So your statement that Burke was better than late career Biggio is just horseshit.

Coach is right. If you're going to bring this crap all year long, then I am rooting for banishment.

[Noe]

If Burke had been the second coming at 2B, the Astros would have moved Biggio. The simple fact is that Burke couldn't beat out Biggio. So your statement that Burke was better than late career Biggio is just horseshit.

Coach is right. If you're going to bring this crap all year long, then I am rooting for banishment.

Scouts and one GM who stood by Burke ultimately loss their jobs.  The Astros used a high first round pick on Burke, gave him over a million dollars as a bonus, only to watch him flounder defensively as an infielder from his first day in the minors.

Burke was given every chance to make good on the investment and he never showed enough to make it viable to put him in the lineup and forget about it.  Alan Ashby, while still with the Astros, said that he thought Burke looked as unconventional as a player as you're ever going to see.  He approached scouts to find out why Burke continues to be seen as a prospect for Houston.  Most said that while he isn't prototypical of what you'd see from a prospect (defensively and offensively), he just shows just enough potential to maybe pan out.  (BTW - same was said about Jason Lane, who had a fabulous minor league career).

Over the years though, Burke was seen more and more as a guy who had reached his potential as a major league player.  A utility player who tends to swing with an upper cut instead of a level swing.  His desire to put air underneath the ball is seen as his flaw on offense.  On defense, Andy pretty much listed it all.

Burke is what he is now... a utility player, and that is not the fault of the Houston Astros organization who probably gave Burke more chances than any other player they had because there was a huge investment that needed to be justified.

[JimR]

Burke could have been valuable as a utility player. He could hhave been an effective line drive hitter in the 2 spot. Apparently, his ego would not accept those roles in Houston. He has no choice in AZ. That lineup is solid and set.

[TheWizard]

I'm not sure if I would have appreciated Burke's play a little more if he hadn't been such a whiny little bitch.  But its most likely I would have enjoyed his play more if he learned to use the field and wasn't trying to hit a HR in every at bat.

But I'll throw the guy a bone, I'll never forget the HR he hit to end that 6-hour marathon of an NLDS game.  I'll try to remember that instead of his incessant bitching.

[Burzmali]

You are so full of shit. If he could play the position better than Kent, he would still be in Houston. The folks who watched him play every day moved him to the OF, then into a utility role.

Go away, Burzmali. I cannot take your redundant drivel all year.

Kent's offense was so much better than Burke's, it more than makes up for the gap in defense.

[Burzmali]

If Burke had been the second coming at 2B, the Astros would have moved Biggio. The simple fact is that Burke couldn't beat out Biggio. So your statement that Burke was better than late career Biggio is just horseshit.

Coach is right. If you're going to bring this crap all year long, then I am rooting for banishment.

Better defensively than late career Biggio was all I said. And Biggio being a legend and going for 3000 also contributed to keeping him around.

[Mr. Happy]

Better defensively than late career Biggio was all I said. And Biggio being a legend and going for 3000 also contributed to keeping him around.

Notwithstanding Biggio's legendary status, Burke was here before Biggio got close to 3000. Had Burke been as believed by the nitwit who drafted him in the first round, again I say, the club would have moved Biggio.

[MikeyBoy]

Kent's offense was so much better than Burke's, it more than makes up for the gap in defense.

Burke is not better defesively than Kent. You might need to run the simulations again.

[JimR]

Kent was much better on defense than Burke--better arm, better feet, better mechanics and fundamentals. All Burke had was range.

[Noe]

Kent was much better on defense than Burke--better arm, better feet, better mechanics and fundamentals. All Burke had was range.

You can lead a horse to water... but that doesn't mean he's going to stop acting like a jackass.

[Mr. Happy]

You can lead a horse to water... but that doesn't mean he's going to stop acting like a jackass.

But, statistically, Noe, how do we know when he's going to stop?

[VirtualBob]

I don't care much one way or the other if stats or scouting is your preferred measure of evaluation, but anyone who ever watched Burke play any infield position can't possibly think he should be an everyday, or "Starting" player.  Limited Range is the best asset he has going for him.  No arm, and maybe the worst footwork I've ever seen on the professional level.

Yep.  That's the guy I watched in RR on a regular basis.

[Burzmali]

Kent was much better on defense than Burke--better arm, better feet, better mechanics and fundamentals. All Burke had was range.

I would argue that range is more important than arm at second, and Burke's fielding percentage is higher than Kent's (in admittedly small sample size) which doesn't bear out that Kent was better in feet/fundamentals to outweigh the range difference.

[Bench]

I would argue that range is more important than arm at second, and Burke's fielding percentage is higher than Kent's (in admittedly small sample size) which doesn't bear out that Kent was better in feet/fundamentals to outweigh the range difference.

How does Kent's fielding percentage indicate that he has better footwork and fundamentals when turning a double play?

[JimR]

I would argue that range is more important than arm at second, and Burke's fielding percentage is higher than Kent's (in admittedly small sample size) which doesn't bear out that Kent was better in feet/fundamentals to outweigh the range difference.

you are FOS.

[Burzmali]

How does Kent's fielding percentage indicate that he has better footwork and fundamentals when turning a double play?

It doesn't, but I would imagine that if the disparity is large enough to outweigh the gap in range (in my mind the most important attribute defensively at 2nd), it would be born out in the error stats.

[Lefty]

This shit is ridiculous.  Noe, check your PM.

[MikeyBoy]

range (in my mind the most important attribute defensively at 2nd),

Clue. Less.

[OregonStrosFan]

has better footwork and fundamentals when turning a double play?

I've never understood the whole 'better footwork' argument (heard it alot about Costanzo as well), as I really don't understand what constitutes 'good footwork' or 'bad footwork' for a 2B (or SS or 3B for that matter).  A 'footwork primer' would be appreciated (to the extent anyone has the time or inclination).  Thanks!

[JimR]

I've never understood the whole 'better footwork' argument (heard it alot about Costanzo as well), as I really don't understand what constitutes 'good footwork' or 'bad footwork' for a 2B (or SS or 3B for that matter).  A 'footwork primer' would be appreciated (to the extent anyone has the time or inclination).  Thanks!

i do not type well enough to write it, but i could tell you and show you.

[pravata]

I've never understood the whole 'better footwork' argument (heard it alot about Costanzo as well), as I really don't understand what constitutes 'good footwork' or 'bad footwork' for a 2B (or SS or 3B for that matter).  A 'footwork primer' would be appreciated (to the extent anyone has the time or inclination).  Thanks!

I know some about 2b and 3b.  The crossover step is the most important first move unless the ball is hit almost directly at you.  For balls hit more directly, slide step.  Never back up.  Don't get your feet crossed when the ball is near you.   Once you get to the ball, always leaning forward, glove low, you have to set the back foot to make the throw. 

The turn at the base for a dp, if you have a decent arm, you can catch the ball with your front left foot on the base, jump and heave.  I never could, left foot, base, catch, one step, plant right foot (sideways, or for the daring, back), then throw.   

(eta: Some crazy sob is going to tell you catch the pivot with the back right foot on the bag and stride towards the runner for the throw.  They can do that.)

Much more comfortable at 3d though.  Hardly ever slide step.  Cross step, esp towards the line, slow rollers, short choppy steps in and always end with your plant foot, (right foot) back.

[Noe]

I've never understood the whole 'better footwork' argument (heard it alot about Costanzo as well), as I really don't understand what constitutes 'good footwork' or 'bad footwork' for a 2B (or SS or 3B for that matter).  A 'footwork primer' would be appreciated (to the extent anyone has the time or inclination).  Thanks!

What you look for is accuracy primarily in a throw.  Strenght, just a tad and of course accuracy can be affected by torso positioning as well.  But if you have lousy footwork, when you get ready to throw the ball, your accuracy will definitely take a hit.  If you try to adjust for your footwork, then you'll lose valuable seconds to throw a guy out at first (primarily).  When you watch an infielder work at his craft, footwork is perhaps the one thing that comes fluidly to all the best of them.  Those with bad footwork will demonstrate the lack of accuracy in throwing almost all the time.  And that is only when it comes to throwing, there is also the lack of good footwork when it comes to positioning oneself to make a play (fielding, going to a bag to cover, turing double plays).

If you have bad footwork, you're pretty much well below adequate when it comes to being an infielder.

[VirtualBob]

I would argue that range is more important than arm at second, and Burke's fielding percentage is higher than Kent's (in admittedly small sample size) which doesn't bear out that Kent was better in feet/fundamentals to outweigh the range difference.

Yet another thread dragged off into cluelessness.

[Hornstros]

Yet another thread dragged off into cluelessness.

Glad to see you are not yet again dragging it out further

[Mr. Happy]

I would argue that range is more important than arm at second, and Burke's fielding percentage is higher than Kent's (in admittedly small sample size) which doesn't bear out that Kent was better in feet/fundamentals to outweigh the range difference.

Fielding stats are arguably even less reliable than pitching/fielding stats because a player who has a higher fielding percentage may well have far less range yet a better fielding percentage because the official scorer doesn't give you an error for a ball you can't get to.

[Lefty]

Glad to see you are not yet again dragging it out further

Burzmali fanclub?  Whodathunkit?

[OregonStrosFan]

Thanks for the primers.  I'm planning on spending some time at (Portland) Beavers games this year trying to learn to analyze fielding and hitting mechanics this year to get a more thorough understanding of what makes a good fielder good and a bad fielder bad, good hitter (e.g. 'holes in swing'), etc.  [Example:  while its easy to watch AE play and watch Jeter play and be able to recognize a clear difference in fielding skills between those two, I'd have no clue being able to talk about the differences in AE's game vs. Manzellas]. 

If I make it to MMP this year (which I doubt, as my 'live' games will probably be in SF, AZ and/or potentially Shae before they tear it down), I'll try to entice coach (with some Shiner 99 of course) to explain some of these nuances to me... 

[mihoba]

One play from Burke last year put the nail in the coffin and forever defined the type of player he was in my eyes.

Righty hitter up, runner on first. Runner takes off, Burke goes over to cover the bag on the attempted steal. The Astros catcher threw a strike to the inside part of the bag, but it was slightly low and slicing right into where the runner would soon be. Burke remained on the bag, never attempting to snatch the ball and apply a quick tag by slightly angling in front of the bag. The runner arrived and Burke bailed, never even attempting to catch it. The throw bounced just past the bag in front of the runner and into centerfield. Burke was in the air trying to get out of the way. I called him a candyass at the time and I stand by that. The catcher (I think it was Munson) received a bogus throwing error on a routine play for a decent second sacker.

[Hornstros]

Burzmali fanclub?  Whodathunkit?

Hell no.  I don't agree with a god damn thing he has to say.  However, lately he hasn't been the one that has looked like the idiot

[JimR]

Hell no.  I don't agree with a god damn thing he has to say.  However, lately he hasn't been the one that has looked like the idiot

you have got to be kidding or you have been asleep the last few days. he's all idiot, all the time.

[Mr. Happy]

Hell no.  I don't agree with a god damn thing he has to say.  However, lately he hasn't been the one that has looked like the idiot

Pray tell. In your opinion, who is an idiot?

[Lefty]

Hell no.  I don't agree with a god damn thing he has to say.  However, lately he hasn't been the one that has looked like the idiot

Okay, so not a fanclub, but a personal grudge?  Carry on.

[EasTexAstro]

One play from Burke last year put the nail in the coffin and forever defined the type of player he was in my eyes.

Righty hitter up, runner on first. Runner takes off, Burke goes over to cover the bag on the attempted steal. The Astros catcher threw a strike to the inside part of the bag, but it was slightly low and slicing right into where the runner would soon be. Burke remained on the bag, never attempting to snatch the ball and apply a quick tag by slightly angling in front of the bag. The runner arrived and Burke bailed, never even attempting to catch it. The throw bounced just past the bag in front of the runner and into centerfield. Burke was in the air trying to get out of the way. I called him a candyass at the time and I stand by that. The catcher (I think it was Munson) received a bogus throwing error on a routine play for a decent second sacker.

Am I the only one that has an image of Burke falling down on EVERY SINGLE GROUND BALL that came his way? At least, it seemed that way for a while. I thought he would never stay on his feet.

[Hornstros]

I'm not about to fill out a list of who i think looks like an idiot.  Bottom line, i don't think anyone (certainly anyone who posts anything) agrees with his overly statistical views.  The thought of batting Berkman #2 is just asinine.  I feel the idea of re-hashing how much disagreement there is, is unnecessary.  

I don't really want to/have time to go back and forth with anyone in great detail on this.  I was frustrated to open this thread and read about how Burzmali should just not post here anymore.  I feel like i've read that same fucking sentiment everyday for the past week.  Just because somebody has a different opinion (and granted i too feel his opinions are outlandish) doesn't mean they cannot express it.  This would be a pretty boring forum if everyone agreed with everybody all the time.  I enjoy reading the disagreement, i just don't enjoy the 'don't post here anymore' shit.  It's as if a censor is being put on opinions.

That is all i meant by my comment.  i don't intend on revisiting this topic.  Happy St. Patrick's day.  Lovely day for a Guinness

[JimR]

WFW, hornstros

[Mr. Happy]

 Bottom line, i don't think anyone (certainly anyone who posts anything) agrees with his overly statistical views.  The thought of batting Berkman #2 is just asinine.  I feel the idea of re-hashing how much disagreement there is, is unnecessary.

 

Overly statistical views? That's an understatement--how about solely statistical views?

I don't really want to/have time to go back and forth with anyone in great detail on this.  I was frustrated to open this thread and read about how Burzmali should just not post here anymore.  I feel like i've read that same fucking sentiment everyday for the past week.  Just because somebody has a different opinion (and granted i too feel his opinions are outlandish) doesn't mean they cannot express it.  This would be a pretty boring forum if everyone agreed with everybody all the time.  I enjoy reading the disagreement, i just don't enjoy the 'don't post here anymore' shit.  It's as if a censor is being put on opinions.

There is no First Amendment right to post here. We're guests. The tradition was set long ago, and new posters are more than sufficiently warned. In advance. Burzmali is an idiot; that's why he's gone. Good riddance. It's not a matter of everyone agreeing with everyone else. There have been some legendary battles on the TZ. We closely follow the Astros. Many of us have played and coached baseball. We will not put up with a rotogeek who has no game. Pure and simple.

[Arky Vaughan]

Fielding stats are arguably even less reliable than pitching/fielding stats because a player who has a higher fielding percentage may well have far less range yet a better fielding percentage because the official scorer doesn't give you an error for a ball you can't get to.

I don't think you're going to find many people who care much about baseball statistics arguing with you about the usefulness of fielding percentage as a measure of fielding performance.

[Arky Vaughan]

For the record, Burzmali's not gone because he's an idiot or because he's a rotogeek who has no game. He's gone because he was previously banned under another username, and two of the rules here are: (1) a permanent ban is just that, permanent, and (2) posting under multiple usernames is prohibited. Any perception that Burzmali was banned because of what he was posting this time around is erroneous.

[Arky Vaughan]

There is no First Amendment right to post here. We're guests.

Also, while I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point, I also concur with Hornstros that any notion that Burzmali should be banned for or shouldn't post here because of his views is closed-minded and self-defeating (not that I read you to be advocating this).

[otterjb]

This board is great because people can say whatever the hell they feel like. Has anyone ever been banned? Wasn't some pirate fan, (Cam Bonifay?) the only one to actually get banned from this spot. Some politico proposed a fine for any service that allowed an anonymous post. That shit got laughed right back into his face. Anything goes, it seems, and that's good.

*Just saw the new posts. What was Burzmali's old name?*

[JimR]

Defend away, Arky. You're his mentor. He was banned the first time for being just like he was this time.

Dend him some more. This is fun to watch. He'll come back as Grasshopper.he says you are the only poster here who has brains.

[Noe]

I believe we should stop talking about someone who is gone, it's not polite.  Plus Arky is right... it was a violation of policy that is clearly set and trumps anything that anyone thinks is or is not a good reason to oust a poster from these hallowed halls.  We never ban folks for having an opinion and holding strong to said opinion, we don't ban folks for being stupid, or for being idiots (because I'd have to ban myself twice over), nor for being an annoyance and a pest.  None of that came into play for today's action.

FWIW - he was originally part of the great Clarkfestation of 06 that migrated here from a juinor startup fansite that was run very loosely and strangely enough, they thought stealing from this site was a good idea.  Many a Clark that came over from that site to disrupt the proceedings here were jettisoned by their own volution when they were asked repeatedly and politely to stop.  There was a huge effort by one Admin to deal with these guys in a very civil and right manner and they were the ones who were very uncivil and bent on being disruptive.

Don't cry from them, they knew what would happen if they continued back then and when they left no choice, many were torched.  Coming back under another name is further taboo behavior, but the reality is that, as Arky rightly mentioned, it is a policy here that "once banned, is always banned".

You can't come back. Ever.  Any attempt to return yet again will produce the same results.

Thread closed because there is nothing more boring than this subject.  Trolls love the attention, I would ask that we not give it any more attention after today.