lidge doesn't want to say anything bad about the astros, but......

[BatGirl]

aww heck, brad. 

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080209/SPORTS01/802090365/1021

[Kent's Moustache]

Classy, as always.

It'll be interesting to see if people in the '08 Astros clubhouse respond to adversity as graciously.

[Amy]

I'm probably alone in this, but I'm going to miss Lidge.

[HudsonHawk]

I'm probably alone in this, but I'm going to miss Lidge.

You're not alone.  I liked Lidge, and think he still has a lot to offer. 

[MusicMan]

I don't see where he said one bad thing about them.

Lidge is a class act, and I wish him well.

[pravata]

I don't see where he said one bad thing about them.

Lidge is a class act, and I wish him well.

And it's nothing he didn't say when he was an Astro.  He was pissed when they demoted him from closer.

[BatGirl]

I don't see where he said one bad thing about them.

Lidge is a class act, and I wish him well.

i agree.  what struck me about his words was the fact that while he doesn't have bad things to say about the astros, he does relay a few of his own criticisms.  he stays true to himself without throwing the astros under the bus.

had to laugh seeing those "hecks", because it made me remember when he let the big F slip, live, on the fox post-game (was it two seasons ago?) show.  he was terribly embarassed, as i recall.

i hope he goes on to pitch well this season.  you know, when he's not playing against us, and stuff... 

[Noe]

You're not alone.  I liked Lidge, and think he still has a lot to offer. 

Same here.

[Lurch]

Hell, I'm still getting over losing Wagner and Dotel.  Lidge, too, shall be missed.  We've been spoiled in the closer spot.  Let's hope the trend continues.

[Bench]

Hell, I'm still getting over losing Wagner and Dotel.  Lidge, too, shall be missed.  We've been spoiled in the closer spot.  Let's hope the trend continues.

No shed tears over Wagner and Dotel over here. But Lidge was always a class act, and he is someone who I will always root for. He's one of the all-time "good guys" in the truest sense of the phrase.

[Arky Vaughan]

I think the fact that I started throwing a cut fastball the first couple weeks last year is testament to the fact that I lost a little confidence in my old stuff. You don't feel right, and you start looking for something. You start asking everyone for help. Some little adjustment would mean I was showing the ball early, and my location, especially my fastball, would be terrible. Somewhere along the line, though, you tell yourself, 'Do it your way or don't do it at all.' And when I got back to that, I had success again. That was huge for me. It let me know that even if you have a rough stretch for an extended period of time, if you just go back to being yourself -- for me, throwing a fastball and slider -- you're going to get guys out. So, if anything, I learned from last year and the year before, don't try and come up with new pitches just to please people or try and get guys out. You've got to do what you know works.

Interestingly, it sounds like Lidge was having trouble trusting his stuff and that he was tipping his pitches. These used to be heretical concepts.

[Bench]

Interestingly, it sounds like Lidge was having trouble trusting his stuff and that he was tipping his pitches. These used to be heretical concepts.

I know you're just trying to be inflammatory, but someone might come along and read it out of context. For the record, I didn't see anything in there about "tipping his pitches" beyond being desparate to start looking for something to blame. As for "not trusting his stuff" his comments corroborate what was always said here. His mechanics got off, he started trying all sorts of stuff to get them back. That does not mean he is a mentally weak person, which is the implication of the "stuff trusting" stance.

[Jacksonian]

Interestingly, it sounds like Lidge was having trouble trusting his stuff and that he was tipping his pitches. These used to be heretical concepts.

Why do you want to be a dick?

[homer]

Interestingly, it sounds like Lidge was having trouble trusting his stuff and that he was tipping his pitches. These used to be heretical concepts.

This was discounted as "pitcher speak" which was explained as making excuses for poor mechanics. If I remember correctly.

[pravata]

This was discounted as "pitcher speak" which was explained as making excuses for poor mechanics. If I remember correctly.

Someone on another team told Adam Everett Lidge was tipping.

[JackAstro]

Interestingly, it sounds like Lidge was having trouble trusting his stuff and that he was tipping his pitches. These used to be heretical concepts.

In the interview, Lidge points to bad mechanics as being the cause of getting hit hard. He indicates that the lack of confidence was caused by getting hit hard (due to the bad mechanics). So, "not trusting his stuff" was not the cause of his troubles. That is a validation of the opinions you're referring to, which disagreed with the notion that his poor performance stemmed from something in his head, rather than mechanics.

He also did not say anything about tipping pitches. He said that he was showing the ball early. Unless we're redefining the phrase, showing the ball early means that the batter can see and identify the pitch earlier in the delivery, which is an issue of mechanics. It is not the same as tipping a pitch, which gives the batter knowledge of the upcoming pitch before the delivery. I have no idea whether he tipped or not, but he certainly didn't say that he did in the interview.

[JimR]

Interestingly, it sounds like Lidge was having trouble trusting his stuff and that he was tipping his pitches. These used to be heretical concepts.

doesn't say that at all. is baiting all you do anymore?

[MikeyBoy]

In the interview, Lidge points to bad mechanics as being the cause of getting hit hard. He indicates that the lack of confidence was caused by getting hit hard (due to the bad mechanics). So, "not trusting his stuff" was not the cause of his troubles. That is a validation of the opinions you're referring to, which disagreed with the notion that his poor performance stemmed from something in his head, rather than mechanics.

He also did not say anything about tipping pitches. He said that he was showing the ball early. Unless we're redefining the phrase, showing the ball early means that the batter can see and identify the pitch earlier in the delivery, which is an issue of mechanics. It is not the same as tipping a pitch, which gives the batter knowledge of the upcoming pitch before the delivery. I have no idea whether he tipped or not, but he certainly didn't say that he did in the interview.

Very nice synopsis, Jack.

[homer]

Someone on another team told Adam Everett Lidge was tipping.

Right. That was the start of the discussion.

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=66895.0

[pravata]

In the interview, Lidge points to bad mechanics as being the cause of getting hit hard. He indicates that the lack of confidence was caused by getting hit hard (due to the bad mechanics). So, "not trusting his stuff" was not the cause of his troubles. That is a validation of the opinions you're referring to, which disagreed with the notion that his poor performance stemmed from something in his head, rather than mechanics.

He also did not say anything about tipping pitches. He said that he was showing the ball early. Unless we're redefining the phrase, showing the ball early means that the batter can see and identify the pitch earlier in the delivery, which is an issue of mechanics. It is not the same as tipping a pitch, which gives the batter knowledge of the upcoming pitch before the delivery. I have no idea whether he tipped or not, but he certainly didn't say that he did in the interview.

Right, flying open could be considered as both tipping and mechanics.  If he was rushing on the fastball, he'd open up.  Which also explained why he had no control of the fastball and why they were laying off the slider.  But, we discussed all of this, and many other things that we noticed and that the Astros noticed, at the time. 

[MusicMan]

"Showing the ball early" is not "tipping".  "Tipping", at least to my understanding, is a visual cue either pre-windup or at the very beggining of the windup.  "Showing the ball early" is a mechanical problem whereby the batter has longer to see the ball and to therefore identify the pitch.

[Limey]

"Showing the ball early" is not "tipping".  "Tipping", at least to my understanding, is a visual cue either pre-windup or at the very beggining of the windup.  "Showing the ball early" is a mechanical problem whereby the batter has longer to see the ball and to therefore identify the pitch.

Dunno whether it's "showing" or "tipping", but what prav was referring to was Lidge's tendency to fly open which in and of itself alerted the hitter that the pitch was a fastball and therefore to swing at it if it was in the zone.  Anything else was a slider, and you never wanted to swing at Lidge's slider even when he was sucking.  It wasn't a hitch like Maddux' alleged fanning of the glove and he wasn't necessarily giving the hitter a better look at the ball.  In poker parlance, it would be a tell.

Whatever it was, it allowed hitters to sit on an overthrown fastball and spit on everything else.

[JimR]

Dunno whether it's "showing" or "tipping", but what prav was referring to was Lidge's tendency to fly open which in and of itself alerted the hitter that the pitch was a fastball and therefore to swing at it if it was in the zone.  Anything else was a slider, and you never wanted to swing at Lidge's slider even when he was sucking.  It wasn't a hitch like Maddux' alleged fanning of the glove and he wasn't necessarily giving the hitter a better look at the ball.  In poker parlance, it would be a tell.

Whatever it was, it allowed hitters to sit on an overthrown fastball and spit on everything else.

he flew open on everything. flying open affects sliders and fastballs but tips nothing.

[pravata]

"Showing the ball early" is not "tipping".  "Tipping", at least to my understanding, is a visual cue either pre-windup or at the very beggining of the windup.  "Showing the ball early" is a mechanical problem whereby the batter has longer to see the ball and to therefore identify the pitch.

He was apparently doing all of that.  As well as throwing a pitch he didn't have.