Everybody relax, Congress will fix this right up

[pravata]

California Democrat Henry Waxman and Virginia Republican Tom Davis asked Mitchell, baseball commissioner Bud Selig and union head Donald Fehr to testify at a House committee hearing next week.
Link

[Limey]

California Democrat Henry Waxman and Virginia Republican Tom Davis asked Mitchell, baseball commissioner Bud Selig and union head Donald Fehr to testify at a House committee hearing next week.
Link

Presumably, they have nothing more pressing.

[Froback]

I love seeing my tax dollars wasted like this, don't you?

I look forwardbackward to a time when Congressmen (and women) meet only when there is something worthy of their attention.


ETA: Did my own FIFY, cause it will never happen this way again, but just think there was a time when this was actually true!

[austro]

Presumably, they have nothing more pressing.

For Waxman there is nothing more pressing than getting his name in the news.

[jasonact]

I look forwardbackward to a time when Congressmen (and women) meet only when there is something worthy of their attention.

And, pray tell, when did this utopia exist and in what parallel universe?

[Colt 45]

This is real funny................do any of you even vote ?

No ....of course not............I just bitch on the internet.

[jasonact]

This is real funny................do any of you even vote ?

No ....of course not............I just bitch on the internet.

Haven't missed an election since I turned 18, and that includes the obscure municipal elections.

... where's my cookie?

[Fredia]

California Democrat Henry Waxman and Virginia Republican Tom Davis asked Mitchell, baseball commissioner Bud Selig and union head Donald Fehr to testify at a House committee hearing next week.
Link

well it will be just like the govt to throw more money into the whole thing. that seems to be the answer that will fix everything

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

California Democrat Henry Waxman and Virginia Republican Tom Davis asked Mitchell, baseball commissioner Bud Selig and union head Donald Fehr to testify at a House committee hearing next week.
Link

Can a head explode twice?

[MusicMan]

This is real funny................do any of you even vote ?

Naww, we's too stoppid to vote.

No ....of course not............I just bitch on the internet.

If I've voted, do I have your permission to bitch?

[Taras Bulba]

Naww, we's too stoppid to vote.

If I've voted, do I have your permission to bitch?

You also have the God given right to exercise the "Ignore" button.  Praise Je-sus!

[T. J.]

This is real funny................do any of you even vote ?

No ....of course not............I just bitch on the internet.

The Freakonomics guys wrote a good article on this a couple years ago, with the gist of the article being, "Your vote doesn't really matter".  Here's the article:  Freakonomics

[ybbodeus]

For Waxman there is nothing more pressing than getting his name in the news.

I'm not certain that makes him unique; that's a pretty big club up there these days.

[Limey]

I'm not certain that makes him unique; that's a pretty big club up there these days.

They all are happy to look like they're doing the right thing, rather than actually do anything.  They think we're stupid because they do this, then wonder why their approval ratings rival those of Dick Cheney and Gigli.

[Gizzmonic]

Limey, you have a remarkable grasp of American politics.

Doing the right thing would alienate people.  Looking like you're doing the right thing, particularly "saving the children" or "being tough on crime" gets idiot voters to rally around you.

They all are happy to look like they're doing the right thing, rather than actually do anything.  They think we're stupid because they do this, then wonder why their approval ratings rival those of Dick Cheney and Gigli.

[Jacksonian]

Limey, you have a remarkable grasp of American politics.

Doing the right thing would alienate people.  Looking like you're doing the right thing, particularly "saving the children" or "being tough on crime" gets idiot voters to rally around you.

You think that's limited to American politics?

[VirtualBob]

They all are happy to look like they're doing the right thing, rather than actually do anything.  They think we're stupid because they do this, then wonder why their approval ratings rival those of Dick Cheney and Gigli.

Actually, they think we're stupid because they do this and then keep getting elected.  Or in the worst case, getting defeated by someone who "does this" a little better than they do.

[Froback]

Actually, they think we're stupid because they do this and then keep getting elected.  Or in the worst case, getting defeated by someone who "does this" a little better than they do.

You know, I wonder sometimes... cause the mind wants to wander alot while at work.....  If everyone in America actually voted at every election (rather than the like 12% that actually do) what would our government really look like?  Would they still behave the same way?  Would we still even have a "two party system"?

As with most of my wondering, it is something you can never really know the answer to, but they can make for some pretty interesting discussions.

[kevinG]

You know, I wonder sometimes... cause the mind wants to wander alot while at work.....  If everyone in America actually voted at every election (rather than the like 12% that actually do) what would our government really look like?  Would they still behave the same way?  Would we still even have a "two party system"?

Interesting question. The Ausssies have mandated voting but a vastly different political system. However, because of the nature of our system (first-past-the-post single-member districts, Presidential system) we will always be a two party system. We'd have to have a radical overhaul of the Constitution to get to a point like, say, Poland, where they have six parties that hold seats in their Parliament (and have had far more than that before reform).

Anyway, I'm against mandated voting. If the populace wants to be apathetic, who are we to stop them?

[Gizzmonic]

I think it's Germany that has a tax on those who don't vote.  I would support that as a "soft" way of forcing people to vote.  And yes, it's sad that we've gotten to this point, but an apathetic population is a vulnerable population.

Interesting question. The Ausssies have mandated voting but a vastly different political system. However, because of the nature of our system (first-past-the-post single-member districts, Presidential system) we will always be a two party system. We'd have to have a radical overhaul of the Constitution to get to a point like, say, Poland, where they have six parties that hold seats in their Parliament (and have had far more than that before reform).

Anyway, I'm against mandated voting. If the populace wants to be apathetic, who are we to stop them?

[VirtualBob]

I think it's Germany that has a tax on those who don't vote.  I would support that as a "soft" way of forcing people to vote.  And yes, it's sad that we've gotten to this point, but an apathetic population is a vulnerable population.

Yeah ... The Soviet method of requiring people to vote ensured a much more representative government, don't you think?

Or maybe we are better off if those who don't care don't count.

[Limey]

You think that's limited to American politics?

Ding!  Ding!  Ding!

[Lurch]

Yeah ... The Soviet method of requiring people to vote ensured a much more representative government, don't you think?

Or maybe we are better off if those who don't care don't count.

I like it as long as one of the options is "I didn't do enough research to make an informed decision".  Or we just can continue to let that be the default.

[Limey]

Actually, they think we're stupid because they do this and then keep getting elected.  Or in the worst case, getting defeated by someone who "does this" a little better than they do.

That's only because you can only vote for who's on the ballot.  Or not vote, in which case your hobson's choice vote isn't even registered.

What we have to do is elect the mo-fos, then watch them like bionic hawks.

[Jacksonian]

That's only because you can only vote for who's on the ballot.  Or not vote, in which case your hobson's choice vote isn't even registered.

What we have to do is elect the mo-fos, then watch them like bionic hawks.

I ain't givin' up the TZ, fucker.

[Limey]

You know, I wonder sometimes... cause the mind wants to wander alot while at work.....  If everyone in America actually voted at every election (rather than the like 12% that actually do) what would our government really look like?  Would they still behave the same way?  Would we still even have a "two party system"?

As with most of my wondering, it is something you can never really know the answer to, but they can make for some pretty interesting discussions.

It would dilute all the pandering to active voting blocks that goes on right now.

I don't think that it's a coincidence that Europeans typically turn out in significantly greater numbers to vote, and "wedge" issues like abortion simply don't come up in the campaigns.  There's still the same proportion of the populations who have strong views against, but they are overruled by the vast majority of the voting populace who think the opposite or don't give a shit.  Which is kinda the point, isn't it?

[Limey]

I like it as long as one of the options is "I didn't do enough research to make an informed decision".  Or we just can continue to let that be the default.

How about a QuickPik option?

[pravata]

I like it as long as one of the options is "I didn't do enough research to make an informed decision".  Or we just can continue to let that be the default.

"didn't do", and don't have the education, the skills, or the sources even if I wanted to do. The US is one of the stupidest populations in the industrialized world and we're not getting any smarter.  Or less gullible.

[mihoba]

"didn't do", and don't have the education, the skills, or the sources even if I wanted to do. The US is one of the stupidest populations in the industrialized world and we're not getting any smarter.  Or less gullible.

but...but... my interest rate used to be 4%.

Noe, what does variable mean?

[Jacksonian]

but...but... my interest rate used to be 4%.

Noe, what does variable mean?

A couple of lenders tried to get me to take an ARM when I was buying my house in 2001.  They argued I wouldn't even be in my house when the rate changed because the job market was so good.  I'm still in my house with my fixed rate mortgage.

[Limey]

"didn't do", and don't have the education, the skills, or the sources even if I wanted to do. The US is one of the stupidest populations in the industrialized world and we're not getting any smarter.  Or less gullible.

You obviously didn't grow up where I grew up.

I think it's more about the background noise, which is deafening here, as the media fails to cut through the crap and get to the point.  If anyone is interested, search on YouTube for Jeremy Paxman, who has a current affairs show nightly on the BBC.  He's so vicious with the politicos that it almost makes you feel sorry for them...almost.

The press corps in the UK is similarly dogged, and do the unthinkable of asking follow-up questions when the original question has been evaded or ignored - something that you never see happen with the US media.  It drives me mad when a question is asked, then skirted so clumsily that even the uninitiated will know it, and the journo just says "thanks".  Might as well not have bothered to ask in the first question if you're not going to require an answer.  That's the media's version of looking like they're doing the right thing (see Russert, Tim).

[subnuclear]

"didn't do", and don't have the education, the skills, or the sources even if I wanted to do. The US is one of the stupidest populations in the industrialized world and we're not getting any smarter.  Or less gullible.

I'll put you down as a skeptic of the Flynn Effect.

[kevinG]

We may not be getting any smarter relative to other countries, even if we're getting functionally smarter as the Flynn Effect says.

Anyway, while the US may be dumber on average, we've got a different distribution of intelligence. By percentage, we have both more dumb people and smart people than other industrialized nations. But by average, the US cranks out below others.

[Nate in IA]

"didn't do", and don't have the education, the skills, or the sources even if I wanted to do. The US is one of the stupidest populations in the industrialized world and we're not getting any smarter.  Or less gullible.

See, this is why I don't post much.  Pravata says, much more eruditely than I, what I would have said.   

[Limey]

We may not be getting any smarter relative to other countries, even if we're getting functionally smarter as the Flynn Effect says.

Anyway, while the US may be dumber on average, we've got a different distribution of intelligence. By percentage, we have both more dumb people and smart people than other industrialized nations. But by average, the US cranks out below others.

When you introduce an educational system that rewards schools solely on test results, and punishes schools solely on test results, then you end up with all schools teaching solely to the test, and every child is left behind.  Dumb and poorly educated are two very different things.

[pravata]

I'll put you down as a skeptic of the Flynn Effect.

The US consistently ranks near the bottom in every measure of education.  We're abysmal at science, we have no idea of geography, history, we can't read.  35% of adult males admitted in a Gallup(?) phone interview, admitted of their own free will, they didn't read a book last year.  Probably proud of it.  Probably say defiantly that they don't read the papers neither.  Up near 50% allowed they'd read one book.  And no, the Internet don't count.  Lets avoid for the time being that pornography is the most accessed topic on the Web, and consider that reading a 400 page book on a single topic is not equivalent to reading 400 1 page articles on the same topic.

75% of us get most all of our news from the TV, the Internet is not putting newspapers out of business, TV is.  And the infotainment shows that pass as news are absymal, see Limey's post. 

We're stupid.  And, pointing out that atleast some of us are smart doesn't help neither.  We're a democracy, everybody votes.  And most of us vote for someone who thinks like us.  That's the worst thing we can do.  I'm hoping to vote for someone who thinks better than I do. (by the way, I also hope for that in baseball) I think what H.L. Mencken said about 90 years ago is very close to the situation we have now.  He said 

"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.''

Mencken was, if anything, too limited in his choice of political office.

[subnuclear]

The US consistently ranks near the bottom in every measure of education.  We're abysmal at science, we have no idea of geography, history, we can't read.  35% of adult males admitted in a Gallup(?) phone interview, admitted of their own free will, they didn't read a book last year.  Probably proud of it.  Probably say defiantly that they don't read the papers neither.  Up near 50% allowed they'd read one book.  And no, the Internet don't count.  Lets avoid for the time being that pornography is the most accessed topic on the Web, and consider that reading a 400 page book on a single topic is not equivalent to reading 400 1 page articles on the same topic.

75% of us get most all of our news from the TV, the Internet is not putting newspapers out of business, TV is.  And the infotainment shows that pass as news are absymal, see Limey's post. 

We're stupid.  And, pointing out that atleast some of us are smart doesn't help neither.  We're a democracy, everybody votes.  And most of us vote for someone who thinks like us.  That's the worst thing we can do.  I'm hoping to vote for someone who thinks better than I do. (by the way, I also hope for that in baseball) I think what H.L. Mencken said about 90 years ago is very close to the situation we have now.  He said 

"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.''

Mencken was, if anything, too limited in his choice of political office.

Who could disagree with you?  Not me.   Even if the Flynn Effect were translatable into the political realm, the political intelligence gained would be destroyed by what you mentioned.   Its not so much the stupidity that gets on my nerves, its the lack of humility in the face of it. 

[strosrays]

The US consistently ranks near the bottom in every measure of education.  We're abysmal at science, we have no idea of geography, history, we can't read.  35% of adult males admitted in a Gallup(?) phone interview, admitted of their own free will, they didn't read a book last year.  Probably proud of it.  Probably say defiantly that they don't read the papers neither.  Up near 50% allowed they'd read one book.  And no, the Internet don't count.  Lets avoid for the time being that pornography is the most accessed topic on the Web, and consider that reading a 400 page book on a single topic is not equivalent to reading 400 1 page articles on the same topic.

75% of us get most all of our news from the TV, the Internet is not putting newspapers out of business, TV is.  And the infotainment shows that pass as news are absymal, see Limey's post. 

We're stupid.  And, pointing out that atleast some of us are smart doesn't help neither.  We're a democracy, everybody votes.  And most of us vote for someone who thinks like us.  That's the worst thing we can do.  I'm hoping to vote for someone who thinks better than I do. (by the way, I also hope for that in baseball) I think what H.L. Mencken said about 90 years ago is very close to the situation we have now.  He said 

"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.''

Mencken was, if anything, too limited in his choice of political office.

I quit reading the papers, and I feel smarter for it.

I do find the lack of geographical knowledge, generally speaking, to be appalling.

I am asked from time to time, mostly by people younger than I, the best way to grow one's vocabulary.  By reading books, I tell them.  It's the only way.  That is how one gets context as well as meaning.  The words are integrated into one's speech and writing naturally.  One has the knowledge of when not to roll out a "big" word, as well as the option of throwing one in, if one is moved to.  We have all heard the public speaker who plugs in multisyllabic words here and there, with no real knowledge of nuance or context.  They end up sounding stoopider than if they'd just stuck to their basic 5,000 words.  But most people, when told they need to read, react the same way as if they'd been told they need to eat more broccoli.

The stupidest people I meet, BTW, are not young.  Most of the young people I know (a limited sample, to be sure) are refreshingly open and intellectually curious.  The really dumb motherfuckers are my age, from my generation, born roughly between 1956-1966.  The ones in coming into charge of things now.

[VirtualBob]

A couple of lenders tried to get me to take an ARM when I was buying my house in 2001.  They argued I wouldn't even be in my house when the rate changed because the job market was so good.  I'm still in my house with my fixed rate mortgage.

The trouble with an ARM is that when it adjusts to a LEG it ends up with both of them.

[VirtualBob]

When you introduce an educational system that rewards schools solely on test results, and punishes schools solely on test results, then you end up with all schools teaching solely to the test, and every child is left behind.  Dumb and poorly educated are two very different things.

This is POTWA worthy except for the fact that we apparently keep that award for posts with zing value instead of real wisdom.

[Ty in Tampa]

This is POTWA worthy except for the fact that we apparently keep that award for posts with zing value instead of real wisdom.

Fuck that. Nominate it and it will be considered.

[VirtualBob]

The stupidest people I meet, BTW, are not young.  Most of the young people I know (a limited sample, to be sure) are refreshingly open and intellectually curious.  The really dumb motherfuckers are my age, from my generation, born roughly between 1956-1966.  The ones in coming into charge of things now.

Receipe for "stew-pid"

Start with average intelligence, add 12 years of mostly worthless edumication, simmer for 20 years in front of the TV and serve luke warm.

[Limey]

I quit reading the papers, and I feel smarter for it.

..which is their fault, not yours.

[Limey]

I quit reading the papers, and I feel smarter for it.

I do find the lack of geographical knowledge, generally speaking, to be appalling.

I am asked from time to time, mostly by people younger than I, the best way to grow one's vocabulary.  By reading books, I tell them.  It's the only way.  That is how one gets context as well as meaning.  The words are integrated into one's speech and writing naturally.  One has the knowledge of when not to roll out a "big" word, as well as the option of throwing one in, if one is moved to.  We have all heard the public speaker who plugs in multisyllabic words here and there, with no real knowledge of nuance or context.  They end up sounding stoopider than if they'd just stuck to their basic 5,000 words.  But most people, when told they need to read, react the same way as if they'd been told they need to eat more broccoli.

The stupidest people I meet, BTW, are not young.  Most of the young people I know (a limited sample, to be sure) are refreshingly open and intellectually curious.  The really dumb motherfuckers are my age, from my generation, born roughly between 1956-1966.  The ones in coming into charge of things now.

I was truly blessed by the education that my father paid for through his nostrils...and other orifices.  We moved school districts when I was 11 and changing from primary (elementary) to secondary (middle & high) school.  I was not allowed to go to the same school as my older brother, because we were changing districts.  I was not allowed to apply to schools in my new district, because we didn't live there yet.  That meant that I would go to the school that was was the drip tray for all the area's schools.

My parents decided that they would buck the system that was trying to fuck me, and put me into private school.  I tried out for many schools, and found a place at Alleyn's.  It's not like I was sharing dorms with royalty, but they teach things like Latin and Science and Politics and Business Studies and Economics and Computers.  It was also co-ed, which meant that they also taught boobs and frustration.

Bottom line:  I was very lucky to have the education I had.  I tried my best to fuck it up (nearly expelled for lack of homework, amongst other offenses), but through torture and/or osmosis, some shit sunk in.

Hence, I am very upset when unimaginative, talentless fuckholes bitch about kids not being able to, or wanting to, learn.  Kids can't help but learn, you just have to throw tons of shit in their way and they'll take on what they can and bump over the rest.

[Jacksonian]

Hence, I am very upset when unimaginative, talentless fuckholes bitch about kids not being able to, or wanting to, learn.  Kids can't help but learn, you just have to throw tons of shit in their way and they'll take on what they can and bump over the rest.

My 6-year old first grader is smart.  Not Einstein.  But smart, quite smart.  Loves to read.  Loves it.  Love science too.  He looked at me in the car in August and told me he wanted to learn *everything*, literally.  I pray every night, "God, don't let me fuck him up."

[VirtualBob]

Hence, I am very upset when unimaginative, talentless fuckholes bitch about kids not being able to, or wanting to, learn.  Kids can't help but learn, you just have to throw tons of shit in their way and they'll take on what they can and bump over the rest.

Amen ... One of the biggest problems with government education in this country is that they consistently discourage students from actual learning.  Dumbing everything down until even the slowest are bored, then drugging them for 'ADD' when their boredom finds a creative outlet.  By now the teachers are the products of the same system, so many would not know what to say about Shakespeare even if they did bother to read his works.

Western civilization had education pretty well figured out from the time of Aristotle up until the mid-18th century when "enlightenment" gave birth to pragmatism.  Pragmatism looks for measurable positive outcomes and tends to constantly fiddle with the process to "optimize" it.  Hence the eventual "standardization" (e.g. "standardized tests") and a downward spiral.  Add to that a guilt-ridden society that is deathly afraid of offending anyone or harming their self-image and even the original excellence-driven aspects of pragmatism are eliminated.  So ... what the world needs is more maps.

[Limey]

The trouble with an ARM is that when it adjusts to a LEG it ends up with both of them.

Ding!  Fucking...Ding!  Cheap, funny and topical: a TZ trifecta!

[Limey]

My 6-year old first grader is smart.  Not Einstein.  But smart, quite smart.  Loves to read.  Loves it.  Love science too.  He looked at me in the car in August and told me he wanted to learn *everything*, literally.  I pray every night, "God, don't let me fuck him up."

Give him his head, and let nature sort it out.  Draw a line at hookers and/or human-animal hybrids; otherwise let him have at it.

[Limey]

Add to that a guilt-ridden society that is deathly afraid of offending anyone or harming their self-image and even the original excellence-driven aspects of pragmatism are eliminated.  So ... what the world needs is more maps.

You're talking about "being British".  I know it's our fault, and I apologise.

[VirtualBob]

You're talking about "being British".  I know it's our fault, and I apologise.

I wish we could blame it on you, but most of what I was commenting on is distinctly home-grown.

[pravata]

I wish we could blame it on you, but most of what I was commenting on is distinctly home-grown.

Previous to the mid-18th, there was precious little education, other than the extremely pragmatic kind, in this part of the world.

[Bench]

Draw a line at hookers and/or human-animal hybrids;

I choose "or."

[VirtualBob]

Previous to the mid-18th, there was precious little education, other than the extremely pragmatic kind, in this part of the world.

First ... my typo is exposed ... I really meant mid 1800's and somehow bollixed the translation between brain and keyboard.  Kinda spoiled the force of the point I was trying to make.

But second, I think you will find that in the days before the government took over education, there was a lot more real education going on than now.  The equal access argument for "going public" is certainly a strong one, but the end result of what we have done is to multiply mediocrity and force it on everyone.  I read an article one time about what the average grade-school student in New England was expected to learn in about 1800 or so, and it was amazing.  Most college students today would have trouble with the reading list (to say nothing of the mastery of Latin & Greek along with passing familiarity with Hebrew).

[Jacksonian]

Give him his head, and let nature sort it out. 

I have, and it works.  He likes homework and the Astros without me having to prod him everyday.  And, he's already kissing girls at school without having to offer them a thing in return.  Except of course the priviledge of kissing him.

[pravata]

First ... my typo is exposed ... I really meant mid 1800's and somehow bollixed the translation between brain and keyboard.  Kinda spoiled the force of the point I was trying to make.

But second, I think you will find that in the days before the government took over education, there was a lot more real education going on than now.  The equal access argument for "going public" is certainly a strong one, but the end result of what we have done is to multiply mediocrity and force it on everyone.  I read an article one time about what the average grade-school student in New England was expected to learn in about 1800 or so, and it was amazing.  Most college students today would have trouble with the reading list (to say nothing of the mastery of Latin & Greek along with passing familiarity with Hebrew).

I think the percentage of people who went to school then was pretty small, although I'm not an expert on the history of the NE school system.  The best schools in the US are still found in the NE.  I'm not sure if we would know what to do with a population whose general level of education was anything above mediocre.  Nor with a population where the majority had little to no education and a minority a first class one.  Although, we may be about to find out.   We may have differing opinions on the purposes of government.

[Limey]

We're a democracy, everybody votes.  And most of us vote for someone who thinks like us.  That's the worst thing we can do.

Can I just say a resounding "Ravvat!!" to what pravata johnson is saying!  I think I'm a reasonably smart bloke who's had the luxury of a decent education.  Most of what we get served up as candidates for high office have had better luck than me in that regard*.   I don't think that Einstein should've been President, but I want to see someone smarter than me in the job, or else I'm going to have to do it and (1) I don't want to (I'm a lazy fuck); and (2) I'm not allowed!

*  GWB went to Yale and Harvard.

[Limey]

I have, and it works.  He likes homework and the Astros without me having to prod him everyday.  And, he's already kissing girls at school without having to offer them a thing in return.  Except of course the priviledge of kissing him.

Bingo!  Just keep rufees out of the equation, and you're home free.

[Jacksonian]

First ... my typo is exposed ... I really meant mid 1800's and somehow bollixed the translation between brain and keyboard.  Kinda spoiled the force of the point I was trying to make.

But second, I think you will find that in the days before the government took over education, there was a lot more real education going on than now.  The equal access argument for "going public" is certainly a strong one, but the end result of what we have done is to multiply mediocrity and force it on everyone.  I read an article one time about what the average grade-school student in New England was expected to learn in about 1800 or so, and it was amazing.  Most college students today would have trouble with the reading list (to say nothing of the mastery of Latin & Greek along with passing familiarity with Hebrew).

Speaking from first hand knowledge, Russian students are ready for American public colleges at age 16, except for the nuiances of the English language (re composition and American/British/translated to English literature in particular).  And even in those subjects can earn respectable grades.

[Nate in IA]

Can I just say a resounding "Ravvat!!" to what pravata johnson is saying!  I think I'm a reasonably smart bloke who's had the luxury of a decent education.  Most of what we get served up as candidates for high office have had better luck than me in that regard*.   I don't think that Einstein should've been President, but I want to see someone smarter than me in the job, or else I'm going to have to do it and (1) I don't want to (I'm a lazy fuck); and (2) I'm not allowed!

*  GWB went to Yale and Harvard.

I am allowed, and I would gladly do it.  Not many of the "plain folk" would vote for me however.  Nor would I be willing to do what is necessary to secure a nomination.  I'm not old enough for that yet.

[Limey]

Speaking from first hand knowledge, Russian students are ready for American public colleges at age 16, except for the nuiances of the English language (re composition and American/British/translated to English literature in particular).  And even in those subjects can earn respectable grades.

Speaking English breeds laziness.  You may not know this, but my parents taught me to speak English from an early age and, while it means that you can be understood in almost every country on the planet, it instills a certain intransigence.

[kevinG]

I'm no child-psychology expert or anything, but my two cents' is that NCLB and "teaching to the test" have been horrible disasters in this country. We're teaching "this is what you need to know, don't ask questions" when we should be teaching kids how to have inquisitive mindsets and a passion for knowledge.

That said, that last point isn't entirely a failing of public schools. Parents need to take a more hands-on approach. It's no wonder that homeschooled kids consistently and significantly outperform the public school system.

[Jacksonian]

Bingo!  Just keep rufees out of the equation, and you're home free.

He's already told more than one person, and we're talking people he really doesn't know, who were smoking that they were doing drugs and should stop right now.  I had to explain to him why I could drink and be fine.  He still looks at me funny when I hold any alcohol in my hand.  Drug education starts in kindergarten.

[Jacksonian]

I'm no child-psychology expert or anything, but my two cents' is that NCLB and "teaching to the test" have been horrible disasters in this country. We're teaching "this is what you need to know, don't ask questions" when we should be teaching kids how to have inquisitive mindsets and a passion for knowledge.

They haven't helped.  But the problems are far more wide ranging and insidious.

That said, that last point isn't entirely a failing of public schools. Parents need to take a more hands-on approach. It's no wonder that homeschooled kids consistently and significantly outperform the public school system.

I've seen many struggle with the transition to college simply because they were homeschooled.

[pravata]

...we should be teaching kids how to have inquisitive mindsets and a passion for knowledge....

To do what with? 

[Jacksonian]

To do what with? 

Make better steroids and HGH tests.

[subnuclear]

I'm no child-psychology expert or anything, but my two cents' is that NCLB and "teaching to the test" have been horrible disasters in this country. We're teaching "this is what you need to know, don't ask questions" when we should be teaching kids how to have inquisitive mindsets and a passion for knowledge.

That said, that last point isn't entirely a failing of public schools. Parents need to take a more hands-on approach. It's no wonder that homeschooled kids consistently and significantly outperform the public school system.

I don't know.  I like tests.  People need to have their ignorance proved to them.   Curiosity and passion for knowledge is all well and good, but ultimately learning stuff is hard work and you have to be held accountable if you don't do it.

[Limey]

I don't know.  I like tests.  People need to have their ignorance proved to them.   Curiosity and passion for knowledge is all well and good, but ultimately learning stuff is hard work and you have to be held accountable if you don't do it.

Tests are important.  They are a benchmark.  But they should not be the be-all and end-all of measures of a schools worth, just the same as they shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of a kids' worth.

[Guinness]

How about a QuickPik option?

See Diebold

[loganck]

I teach in Austin.  This six weeks I've given a practice TAKS test (two full days), a MOY (middle of the year) test (four days), and a district mandated six weeks test (two days).
The practice TAKS test is the released test from 2004.  The MOY and the six weeks test are designed to look just like a TAKS test only shorter.
I hardly have time to teach anything.  I'm basically an overpaid babysitter.  The students are so sick of testing that I'll be lucky if any of them try when we take the real thing in April.