Avalanche

[VirtualBob]

http://www.salemavalanche.com/cgi-bin/dist/news.cgi?id=1

Salem Avalanche now owned by Fenway Sports Group, parent of the Boston Red Sox.

The Houston Astros, which became Salem’s Major League affiliate in 2003, will maintain that relationship for the 2008 season.

I'll bet we're looking for another option in 2009, though.  Any thoughts on who might be available in the Carolina League?  The Sox would be abandinong Lancaster (California), and I think they are also an 8 team league.

[Jacksonian]

http://www.salemavalanche.com/cgi-bin/dist/news.cgi?id=1

Salem Avalanche now owned by Fenway Sports Group, parent of the Boston Red Sox.

I'll bet we're looking for another option in 2009, though.  Any thoughts on who might be available in the Carolina League?  The Sox would be abandinong Lancaster (California), and I think they are also an 8 team league.

Every year there is multi-team movement.  To the best of my knowledge the Astros have been happy in the Carolina league.  I can't imagine the Astros didn't know this was going down.  I would be surprised if they did have multiple options on the table for their high-A team.

[VirtualBob]

Every year there is multi-team movement.  To the best of my knowledge the Astros have been happy in the Carolina league.  I can't imagine the Astros didn't know this was going down.  I would be surprised if they did have multiple options on the table for their high-A team.

I'm sure you're right ... and I am aware that they like the Carolina League, both for geographic proximity to the SALLY league and for the eight-team circuit.  BTW, I stand corrected on the California League, which has 10 (not .

[Duman]

I'm sure you're right ... and I am aware that they like the Carolina League, both for geographic proximity to the SALLY league and for the eight-team circuit.  BTW, I stand corrected on the California League, which has 10 (not .

The red sox current Adv. A affiliate is in the Carolina League (Lancaster Jet Hawks).  They also have a team in the Sally league.

There has been mention of Lexington wanting to move up a classification as well.  Though they want to move into AA southern league but would require a few more seats. And them moving up would require another team moving out. 

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[VirtualBob]

The red sox current Adv. A affiliate is in the Carolina League (Lancaster Jet Hawks).  They also have a team in the Sally league.

There has been mention of Lexington wanting to move up a classification as well.  Though they want to move into AA southern league but would require a few more seats. And them moving up would require another team moving out. 

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I think Lancaster is in the California league, not Carolina.

[Duman]

You are correct,  I was not clear. 

I was thinking that they are trying to get their A & A+ teams closer together and that if the Astros were looking for a west coast team, they would have an opening the sox would create.  The Lancaster team is not owned by FSG.

[Duman]

Here is the Roanoke Times story on the sale:

Dee would not say that the Red Sox will move affiliations from the West Coast to East, but said several times that a major selling point for the Salem franchise was that "our baseball guys really wanted to be in the Carolina League."

"We're back in the league, and we're here for the long haul," Dee said.

All of the Red Sox's minor-league affiliates are in the Eastern U.S. except for Lancaster. Dee said maintaining an affiliation with a California-based team is "impractical."

Ricky Bennett's Take:

"We'll have to do the best we can to find a new home, hopefully in the Carolina League," Bennett said. "It's unfortunate for us. We like Salem. We like the community. We like the ballpark. But there's not a whole lot we can do about it."

[jbm]

Y'all mentioned that shuffling around is common, but is a "major league owner buying a minor league franchise" common? 

Also, is Salem actually a franchise of the Carolina league?  and if so, Is there some entity that approves the sale?

[Duman]

Y'all mentioned that shuffling around is common, but is a "major league owner buying a minor league franchise" common? 

Also, is Salem actually a franchise of the Carolina league?  and if so, Is there some entity that approves the sale?

From the article linked above:

The sale has already been approved by the Carolina League, league president John Hopkins said, and now must be OK'd by both Major League Baseball and Minor League Baseball. Those approvals, though, are expected to come through without a hitch given the Red Sox's plush financial foundation.

Major league teams own  DSL, VSL, complex league (Gulf Coast & Ariz) and most rookie league teams (Appy for example).  So it isn't that unusual. 

The cards currently own Springfield their AA franchise and the Braves own all but the Sally League Myrtle Beach team.

[Duman]

With the 09 season likely meaning the Astros looking for a new A+ league home, I found it interesting that the Braves are getting out of Richmond with their AAA affiliate possible as soon as 09.  I don't expect Richmond to go unfilled, nor do I expect them to drop to high A ball but, it could be one of the dominoes that impacts where the High A Astros affiliate lands.

[Duman]

BA Re: Richmond:

It hasn’t taken long for teams to begin coveting the Richmond market. A source tells us that two Carolina League clubs have already contacted Richmond about relocating there for 2009. I imagine they won’t be the last.

Bet one of those two are the Astros.

[VirtualBob]

BA Re: Richmond:

Bet one of those two are the Astros.

I think there is some ambiguity in this statement.  There are 8 teams in the Carolina League, and thus 8 MLB affiliates.  Per the article, two of the minor league teams are interested in relocating their home stadium to Richmond.  Depending on the degree of control the MLB affiliate has, the MLB affiliate may be behind the desire, but in the case of the Astros, that is very doubtful.  Since the Red Sox have just acquired ownership of the Avalanche, and since there was all that regional history bandied about in the press release, they are very likely to stay put.  And of course, when the affiliation is up for grabs in the fall, the Red Sox will almost certainly replac e the Astros as the affiliate.

What that means is that the Astros do not really have an affiliate to move to Richmond.  And if I understand the rules properly, they would not be allowed to enter into discussions with another Carolina League team along the lines of "we'll invest in your operation if you move to Richmond and affiliate with us".  Of course, once a team has moved on their own and the negotiation period opens up in the fall, the Astros may in fact attempt to affiliate with the then-new Richmond franchise, but that is getting way ahead of the game.  For now, I expect the Astros are looking at all seven remaining possibilities and evaluating the pros and cons of whichever ones are not likely to renew their current affiliations.  Since the red Sox are likely to move their affiliation in from Lancaster (California League), there will be one MLB team that will have to leave the Carolina League ... hopefully not the Astros.

[Duman]

I know that Columbus Ga's is on shaky footing with the Rays.  So they could be one of the Richmond lookers.

[VirtualBob]

I know that Columbus Ga's is on shaky footing with the Rays.  So they could be one of the Richmond lookers.

That link is about Hockey.  Are they on "shaky footing" or "thin ice"?

Also, aren't the Catfish in the Sally League?  That would mean replacing a AAA franchise with a low-A franchise, which seems unlikely to me.

[Duman]

That link is about Hockey.  Are they on "shaky footing" or "thin ice"?

Also, aren't the Catfish in the Sally League?  That would mean replacing a AAA franchise with a low-A franchise, which seems unlikely to me.

Here is the relevant quote from the hockey story:

Professional baseball has had a foot in the grave ever since the RedStixx bolted for Ohio, and there have been indications that the Columbus Catfish could be gone after the 2008 season.

I agree that they aren't likely to jump to a AAA town but between the Sally League & the Carolina League, I see a lot of shake up happening next season and Richmond is a likely player in this. 

Another possibility I have thought of is: Lexington's ownership has a desire to move up to a higher level of ball.  While they would be the furtherest east team in the Carolina League, the travel wouldn't be much different for Lex than it is now being in the northern division with 2 teams from Maryland  and NC and one from Delaware. 

As you stated earlier, it would require a MLB team changing affiliation out of the Carolina League to make it happen.

I am hopeful that the Astros can stay in the Carolina League.  It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

[farmstros]

Good info.  it definitely looks like next Septemeber/October will be busy as far as High A affiliiations changing and AAA and others for that matter.  More so than this year.  What would be involved in The Carolina League becoming a 10 team league and California dropping to eight? I understand the Astros not wanting to have a team on the West coast due to time differences, travel, et. al. However, the Rangers have a team out there now(Bakersfield).  Drayton could start a California version of the Silver Boot Series...

[VirtualBob]

Here is the relevant quote from the hockey story:

I agree that they aren't likely to jump to a AAA town but between the Sally League & the Carolina League, I see a lot of shake up happening next season and Richmond is a likely player in this. 

Another possibility I have thought of is: Lexington's ownership has a desire to move up to a higher level of ball.  While they would be the furtherest east team in the Carolina League, the travel wouldn't be much different for Lex than it is now being in the northern division with 2 teams from Maryland  and NC and one from Delaware. 

As you stated earlier, it would require a MLB team changing affiliation out of the Carolina League to make it happen.

I am hopeful that the Astros can stay in the Carolina League.  It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

1.  Sorry I failed to sort through the hockey stuff (and thanks for pointing that out).
2.  If Lexington moves up to high A, that still does not solve the Carolina League problem unless (as when RR moved to AAA) they can buy one of the A+ franchises and "move it" backfilling with a Sally league team in the former Carolina League city.  And that still would not address a Carolina League team in Richmond unless a second CL team were to move.

I too am hopeful that the Astros can stay in the league ... We'll see.

[Duman]

The astros have liked the Carolina league because it is so small and they feel their players can make better adjustments because they face each other more frequently.  The Texas league is also that small and that is an added benefit to the proximity. The California league has 10 teams.
Another eastern option would be the 14 team Florida State League. 

Basically another A+ team would have to move either in or out for the Astros to stay.  All of the FSL teams are eastern based. 

The Royals and Whitesox are the teams in the Carolina League that are further west. 

The Red Sox are the only team from the East in the Cal. league unless you count the Rangers.

We will see how it plays out.

[VirtualBob]

The astros have liked the Carolina league because it is so small and they feel their players can make better adjustments because they face each other more frequently. 

Exactly!

Basically another A+ team would have to move either in or out for the Astros to stay. 

Not exactly.  It is not the A+ team that needs to move, but rather the affiliation.  All the Astros really need to do is declare their intention to look at other options (there is some late summer deadline for this) and then try to convince one of the other teams that they should sign with the Astros.   Not all eight will be available, since some will simply renew existing affiliations without competition and others may already be committed beyopnd 2008.  However, since it seems very likely that the BoSox will displace the Astros in Salem, and since it is also widely known (as you mention above) that the Astros want to continue their association with the league, other CL teams will recognize their potential leverage.  Which may mean it boils down to the meaning of "convince" ... $o what do you think that might be?

[Duman]

Here is the affiliation status of the Carolina League Teams from this site

Carolina League (A - Advanced)
Frederick Keys - Baltimore (signed through 2010)
Kinston Indians - Cleveland (signed though 2008)
Lynchburg Hillcats - Pittsburgh (signed through 2008)
Myrtle Beach Pelicans - Atlanta (signed through 2008)
Potomac Cannons - Washington (signed through 2010)
Salem Avalanche - Houston (signed through 2008) - Note: Team purchased by Boston and will likely become a Red Sox affiliate in 2009
Wilmington Blue Rocks - Kansas City (signed through 2008)
Winston-Salem Warthogs - Chicago (AL) (signed through 2008)

[VirtualBob]

Here is the affiliation status of the Carolina League Teams from this site

Carolina League (A - Advanced)
Frederick Keys - Baltimore (signed through 2010)
Kinston Indians - Cleveland (signed though 2008)
Lynchburg Hillcats - Pittsburgh (signed through 2008)
Myrtle Beach Pelicans - Atlanta (signed through 2008)
Potomac Cannons - Washington (signed through 2010)
Salem Avalanche - Houston (signed through 2008) - Note: Team purchased by Boston and will likely become a Red Sox affiliate in 2009
Wilmington Blue Rocks - Kansas City (signed through 2008)
Winston-Salem Warthogs - Chicago (AL) (signed through 2008)

Thanks.

Any clues on which of the five possibilities might be struggling in attendance?  Or disatisfied with current affiliation?  Or for that matter, which ones might have expressed an interest in moving to Richmond??

I checked out MiLB and they already have attendance figures reset to zero in anticipation of 2008.

[farmstros]

according to the Baseball America almanac, here's the average home attendance for about 70 games

Kinston-1745
Lynchburg-2529
Myrtle Beach-3117
Wilmington-4574
Winston-Salem-2442

Salem-3916

[Duman]

According to baseball digest, Winston Salem is set for a new ball park in 09.

As for attendance:

I could find the 2006 info at Baseball Digest. The Carolina League isn't setting records.  There are 5 Sally League teams with better average attendance than any Carolina League team.  Out of 179 Affiliated teams:

Wilmington - 58
Fredrick - 61
Salem - 79
Myrtle Beach - 97
Winston Salem - 117
Potomac - 118
Lynchberg - 119
Kinston - 141

Another note I found interesting is that when the Greenville Braves moved to Mississippi a few years ago, Greenville SC dropped from AA to low A Sally League, a two step drop.  If Richmond drops two steps, that means down to Carolina League level.

[VirtualBob]

According to baseball digest, Winston Salem is set for a new ball park in 09.

As for attendance:

I could find the 2006 info at Baseball Digest. The Carolina League isn't setting records.  There are 5 Sally League teams with better average attendance than any Carolina League team.  Out of 179 Affiliated teams:

Wilmington - 58
Fredrick - 61
Salem - 79
Myrtle Beach - 97
Winston Salem - 117
Potomac - 118
Lynchberg - 119
Kinston - 141

Another note I found interesting is that when the Greenville Braves moved to Mississippi a few years ago, Greenville SC dropped from AA to low A Sally League, a two step drop.  If Richmond drops two steps, that means down to Carolina League level.

Very interesting.  It would seem that Winston-Salem is safe if they are getting a new park, and I doubt if Potomac will move as long as they maintain their affiliation with the Nats.  I did attend a game there a couple of years ago, though, and all three other fans were really enthusiastic.  Lynchburg, though, and especially Kinston would seem like candidates for a move to Richmond.  All of which is much less interesting if the Astros can't get themselves involved with one of the five candidates.