Question about Texas HS Football Playoffs (obviously non-bb)

[jasonact]

I follow HS football almost as closely as I follow college basketball, which is to say almost none at all, but I got bored today and decided to check up on the season and see how things were playing out, knowing that they're fairly deep into the playoffs.

First of all, I was VERY impressed by the Lackey Chron's coverage of HS Football. I had no idea how extensive it was until today. Their baseball writers might suck ass, but whoever's running the HS web stuff is doing a great job.

Second, it bugs me that the two-tiered playoff system creates 2 state champions at each level. I know how they divide the divisions for the playoffs (school attendance), but I can't figure out why. I understand that adding another level of playoffs to crown a "true" state champ would put said championship game on the weekend of Christmas, which might or might not be the reason for not doing it. But if that's so, why include so many teams in the playoffs in the first place?

The two districts I checked out in a little depth, District 21-5A (because I grew up in Baytown) and District 24-5A (because I now live in Clear Lake), both sent a 3-8 team to the playoffs (Kingwood and Clear Brook respectively, both by virtue of winning tie breakers). To me, that screams too many teams in the playoffs. Not every 8-team district needs to send 4 teams to the playoffs. If they knocked out half of those teams from making the postseason in the first place, there wouldn't seem to be a need for the two-tiered playoff system.

So what am I missing? Those of you who follow this stuff more regularly, why the two postseason divisions at each level, and why do so many teams from each district make the playoffs?

[chandler44]

But if that's so, why include so many teams in the playoffs in the first place?

To put it quite bluntly:  money.  Football is the main sport that schools can generate revenue in via gate receipts, concessions, etc.  Playoff games generate even more of the same.  The more teams in the playoffs = more money for the schools.

I work at a AAA school, so 3 of the 5 teams in our district made the playoffs.  Interesting note - the Division 1 (big school) team made it to the Regional Finals and the two Division II teams (small school) are playing this coming Friday for their regional title.

[jasonact]

To put it quite bluntly:  money.  Football is the main sport that schools can generate revenue in via gate receipts, concessions, etc.  Playoff games generate even more of the same.  The more teams in the playoffs = more money for the schools.

I work at a AAA school, so 3 of the 5 teams in our district made the playoffs.  Interesting note - the Division 1 (big school) team made it to the Regional Finals and the two Division II teams (small school) are playing this coming Friday for their regional title.

Okay, forgive me if this is a bit naive, but money? Really? How much revenue could possibly be generated by gate receipts and concessions? Granted, I'm sure the schools are glad to get it, but are HS football tickets pricey enough to bring in a significant amount of money? And who gets that money since many if not most playoff games are played at neutral sites? If money really is the answer, I would think there would have to be an larger revenue source than just ticket sales and concessions.

[Andyzipp]

Okay, forgive me if this is a bit naive, but money? Really? How much revenue could possibly be generated by gate receipts and concessions? Granted, I'm sure the schools are glad to get it, but are HS football tickets pricey enough to bring in a significant amount of money? And who gets that money since many if not most playoff games are played at neutral sites? If money really is the answer, I would think there would have to be an larger revenue source than just ticket sales and concessions.

It's naive.  High School football in Texas generates revenue.  And last time I looked, High Schools don't turn down money.

[chandler44]

Okay, forgive me if this is a bit naive, but money? Really? How much revenue could possibly be generated by gate receipts and concessions? Granted, I'm sure the schools are glad to get it, but are HS football tickets pricey enough to bring in a significant amount of money? And who gets that money since many if not most playoff games are played at neutral sites? If money really is the answer, I would think there would have to be an larger revenue source than just ticket sales and concessions.

Yes, money. It may not be a huge amount of money, but the schools take it.  On many of the sports the schools don't come out 'ahead', but football is the moneymaker.  This Friday we'll be playing in the Regional Championship at a neutral site about 50 miles from our town and 25 miles from the other town.  There will be at least 5-6k fans there, at $8 a pop.  It's not MMP attendance revenue, but it helps.  I don't know the exact formula, but for the neutral site games, I'm sure the two schools playing get equal percentages with a chunk of the gate going to the host school.

[Andyzipp]

Yes, money. It may not be a huge amount of money, but the schools take it.  On many of the sports the schools don't come out 'ahead', but football is the moneymaker.  This Friday we'll be playing in the Regional Championship at a neutral site about 50 miles from our town and 25 miles from the other town.  There will be at least 5-6k fans there, at $8 a pop.  It's not MMP attendance revenue, but it helps.  I don't know the exact formula, but for the neutral site games, I'm sure the two schools playing get equal percentages with a chunk of the gate going to the host school.

I believe for playoff games, it's 30% team 1 / 30% team 2 / 40% venue

[jasonact]

It's naive.  High School football in Texas generates revenue.  And last time I looked, High Schools don't turn down money.

Well, I guess I thought that being on a much smaller scale than pro and college sports that the money wouldn't be big enough to sacrifice the integrity of the playoff system, but I guess that was wrong. I just would think that there would be a way to have a true championship without resorting to some lame division system. But just like the BCS, I guess the decision makers don't think there's a way to make the same money in doing so.

For those that are really invested in HS football, do they see it as lame system too, or does the fandom at large like the current system?

Oh well, back to idle baseball trade speculation...

[strosrays]

Driving back from Ft. Worth this spring, and I can't remember if it was on 287 or IH45 -- I remember stopping at the meat market in Ennis to buy some wiejska kielbasa, but that's about it . . .but anyway we were going through one of the smaller towns up there, a few houses over here, a few businesses over there, and then we came around the curve and there was this huge stadium on a hillside, all modern concrete exterior with what looked like a three or four story glassed-in press box.  The local high school "field."  It was very impressive, especially to someone who played at what would now be a 5-A school, I guess, in an old steel girder and wood bleacher standard configuration. 

That stadium we saw was nicer than a whole lot of college facilities.  The HS football programs have serious money coming in from somewhere.

[drew corleone]

Well, I guess I thought that being on a much smaller scale than pro and college sports that the money wouldn't be big enough to sacrifice the integrity of the playoff system, but I guess that was wrong. I just would think that there would be a way to have a true championship without resorting to some lame division system. But just like the BCS, I guess the decision makers don't think there's a way to make the same money in doing so.

For those that are really invested in HS football, do they see it as lame system too, or does the fandom at large like the current system?

Oh well, back to idle baseball trade speculation...

It's about money, but it's also about getting more kids involved... to a much lesser extent.

[Phil_in_CS]

It's about money, but it's also about getting more kids involved... to a much lesser extent.

don't under estimate the 'parents and other town folk living out missed childhood opportunities' factor.

Though with the splits Zipp had, an 8,000 attendance $8 ticket would put up 19,200 per school. Of course, they have to bus the players, the band, drill team, and assorted hangers on. Kids don't ride school buses to these anymore either; 3 games at Kyle Field last weekend and the town was filled with chartered buses.

[chandler44]

Kids don't ride school buses to these anymore either; 3 games at Kyle Field last weekend and the town was filled with chartered buses.

The kids at my school will be proudly riding the yellow dog down the road to their Regional Championship game Friday night.

[Phil_in_CS]

The kids at my school will be proudly riding the yellow dog down the road to their Regional Championship game Friday night.

good for them! Its crazy how much money schools spend on crap like that these days. Bryan HS has a freaking semi trailer to carry their crap around, and they are so proud of it they used it in the Christmas parade.