What the Cardinals are looking for

[pravata]

(owner) DeWitt spoke Tuesday to youthful Arizona Diamondbacks assistant general manager Peter Woodfork, who closely fits the profile the club seeks.

Woodfork, 32, is a 1999 graduate of Harvard University and a protégé of Diamondbacks general manager Josh Byrnes. A four-year starting infielder for the Crimson baseball squad, Woodfork earned a degree in psychology before being hired by Major League Baseball to a post in its labor relations department. He then moved on to the Boston Red Sox as assistant director of player development and eventually as director of baseball operations.

The club is also expected to interview Cleveland Indians vice president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti and Toronto Blue Jays director of player personnel Tony LaCava. Antonetti, 33, is one of the industry's rising stars and is recognized for his work in evaluative analysis, the approach championed in "Moneyball" and within the Cardinals' amateur scouting and player development department.

Former Houston Astros general manager Tim Purpura is known also to have applied for the Cardinals position.

John Mozeliak, Cardinals assistant general manager to the ousted Walt Jocketty, is also a popular internal candidate

(LaRussa's thoughts on hiring the manager first, then the GM)  "The GM is the guy I would work for directly. So why would I get in a situation where the manager is not the guy who (the new general manager) would hire?"
Link

[Gizzmonic]

I read a rumor at OWA a few months back that La Russa and Jocketty are both going to the Reds.

I've also heard La Russa might be the Yankees next manager, has anyone else heard these?

At any rate, I think the La Russa era is over in St. Looie.

(owner) DeWitt spoke Tuesday to youthful Arizona Diamondbacks assistant general manager Peter Woodfork, who closely fits the profile the club seeks.

Woodfork, 32, is a 1999 graduate of Harvard University and a protégé of Diamondbacks general manager Josh Byrnes. A four-year starting infielder for the Crimson baseball squad, Woodfork earned a degree in psychology before being hired by Major League Baseball to a post in its labor relations department. He then moved on to the Boston Red Sox as assistant director of player development and eventually as director of baseball operations.

The club is also expected to interview Cleveland Indians vice president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti and Toronto Blue Jays director of player personnel Tony LaCava. Antonetti, 33, is one of the industry's rising stars and is recognized for his work in evaluative analysis, the approach championed in "Moneyball" and within the Cardinals' amateur scouting and player development department.

Former Houston Astros general manager Tim Purpura is known also to have applied for the Cardinals position.

John Mozeliak, Cardinals assistant general manager to the ousted Walt Jocketty, is also a popular internal candidate

(LaRussa's thoughts on hiring the manager first, then the GM)  "The GM is the guy I would work for directly. So why would I get in a situation where the manager is not the guy who (the new general manager) would hire?"
Link

[austro]

I've also heard La Russa might be the Yankees next manager, has anyone else heard these?

I saw speculation somewhere (ESPN, I think) that Boobie Valentine is on the list of Yankee candidates.  Dear BBGs, I implore you: please, please, please, please let this happen.

[Fredia]

I saw speculation somewhere (ESPN, I think) that Boobie Valentine is on the list of Yankee candidates.  Dear BBGs, I implore you: please, please, please, please let this happen.

and will probably get a salary to make himthe highest paide one. i mean this is the yankeess. money = success you know

[Ty in Tampa]

I've also heard La Russa might be the Yankees next manager, has anyone else heard these?

I saw it here, but it still sounds like a rumour.

La Russa's three-year contract expired after the season. Even before that he was linked with openings elsewhere, and his name popped up recently as a potential successor to Joe Torre if the Yankees manager was fired.

[Burzmali]

I wish Drayton would have gone after candidates like this.

[MusicMan]

I wish Drayton would have gone after candidates like this.

Wish in one hand, crap in the other...

[Ty in Tampa]

I wish Drayton would have gone after candidates like this.

I wish my hairy ass would have met Nigella Lawson first.

[Bench]

I wonder what he did for the couple years between high school and college, unless of course he graduated high school in '95 at the age of 20.

[BUWebguy]

I wonder what he did for the couple years between high school and college, unless of course he graduated high school in '95 at the age of 20.

My guess would be that he was 19 when he graduated high school (not that unusual), and took five years of college (also not that unusual). That would have him graduate HS in 1994 and college in 1999.

[Limey]

I read a rumor at OWA a few months back that La Russa and Jocketty are both going to the Reds.

I've also heard La Russa might be the Yankees next manager, has anyone else heard these?

At any rate, I think the La Russa era is over in St. Looie.

La Russa to the Yanks might make sense.  It will also be hilarious watching the reaction to his incessant and incomprehensible double-switches.  In the AL.

[Bench]

My guess would be that he was 19 when he graduated high school (not that unusual), and took five years of college (also not that unusual). That would have him graduate HS in 1994 and college in 1999.

Maybe five years is fine for Baylor, but this is Haahvahd. Dudeguy must be wicked smaht.

[Burzmali]

Wish in one hand, crap in the other...

Isn't it kind of telling that neither of these "rising stars" were even mentioned in the Astros' GM search?

[JimR]

Isn't it kind of telling that neither of these "rising stars" were even mentioned in the Astros' GM search?

why? what if they were looking for an established GM type, not some "rising star."

bitch, bitch, bitch

[BUWebguy]

Maybe five years is fine for Baylor, but this is Haahvahd. Dudeguy must be wicked smaht.

Ok, did a little more digging, and according to his birthdate listed in this article, he's actually a week shy of his 31st birthday. If he was born 10/16/76, he'd be 30 right now, right? Unless my math skills have eroded more than I realize...

[Lefty]

why? what if they were looking for an established GM type, not some "rising star."

bitch, bitch, bitch

No, you don´t get it, Jim.  ¨Baseball men¨ are ignorant retreads unwise in the ways of numberotology & such.  Only these youngsters have caught on & hold the keys to the kingdom.

[Limey]

No, you don´t get it, Jim.  ¨Baseball men¨ are ignorant retreads unwise in the ways of numberotology & such.  Only these youngsters have caught on & hold the keys to the kingdom.

Since Enron and its ilk went around the u-bend, the kids who know it all and who have figured out a better way to do "it", have been looking for work.  Maybe baseball will give them a home.. .

[BizidyDizidy]

Since Enron and its ilk went around the u-bend, the kids who know it all and who have figured out a better way to do "it", have been looking for work.  Maybe baseball will give them a home.. .

Some of them have already found something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Arnold

[Noe]

I wish Drayton would have gone after candidates like this.

LaRussa?

[Jose Cruz III]

I wish Drayton would have gone after candidates like this.

I just hope Drayton hired the one that will punch him in the face if he even utters the words Roger Clemens.

[Fredia]

I just hope Drayton hired the one that will punch him in the face if he even utters the words Roger Clemens.

hopefully his hamspring will stay sprung and he will be content to tellthe world how many teams really wanted him but he is staying retired this time

[Duman]

La Russa to the Yanks might make sense.  It will also be hilarious watching the reaction to his incessant and incomprehensible double-switches.  In the AL.

He'll have the DH batting 8th since that is where the pitcher would have batted.

[Burzmali]

why? what if they were looking for an established GM type, not some "rising star."

bitch, bitch, bitch

The impression that I got from reading about Wade was proven mediocrity. I don't think that is better than simply unproven. I know that he wasn't available at the time, but Walt J is somebody that is an established GM that is distinctly unlike Wade.

[MusicMan]

I know that he wasn't available at the time, but Walt J is somebody that is an established GM that is distinctly unlike Wade.

I know he wasn't available at the time, but our season would have been much better if we had signed ARod to play 3b.

[JimR]

The impression that I got from reading about Wade was proven mediocrity. I don't think that is better than simply unproven. I know that he wasn't available at the time, but Walt J is somebody that is an established GM that is distinctly unlike Wade.

"from reading about"

and that makes you a fucking expert on GMs

[juliogotay]

The impression that I got from reading about Wade was proven mediocrity. I don't think that is better than simply unproven. I know that he wasn't available at the time, but Walt J is somebody that is an established GM that is distinctly unlike Wade.

I would think it is very difficult for the fans to judge the work of a GM. There are so many factors involved. Injuries, the division you are in, the influence of an owner to meddle or spring for a key FA. Budgets, of course. Who is say that Wade isn't the equal of Jocketty? Granted Jocketty's teams have been to the playoffs and won a ring but a team largely put together by Wade went to the Playoffs this year while Jocketty's team did not. Clearly the East is a better division at this time. From what I know, the Cards farm system isn't overflowing with prospects right now. Anyone doing this job in Philly is going to be perceived in less favorable light than someone doing the same job in STL because of the difference in the press and the fandom. I think time would have proved Purpura to be a good GM but he may be a classic case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Mr. Happy]

Jocketty has hardware we'd all like to have. He'll get whatever he wants to do with his life.

[Limey]

Jocketty has hardware we'd all like to have.

I'll put my hardware up against Jocketty's any time.*


*  Obviously not right up against it, but in a side by side competition.  Obviously.

[MusicMan]

But can you compete with Doc Rivers?

[Limey]

But can you compete with Doc Rivers?

He may have won that round, but then there's the oral exam...

[pravata]

Jocketty has hardware we'd all like to have. He'll get whatever he wants to do with his life.

In fact, he wants to have a lie down,

Jocketty describes himself as "beat" after 13 years and the tough season they had this year and has already turned down "several" offers. Link

What's more, he was fired.  Out of the blue almost.  He wasn't on the market when the Astros were inteviewing.  And, for all practical purposes, the Astros hired Tal Smith as the GM.  Pulled a cheney and hired himself.  Jocketty would not have been a good fit.  As has been observed, Wade has worked closely with Smith before and his role will be to coordinate the major and minor league clubs... Link Link Link and he'll use his marketing skills to interact with the media, etc.  It'll work out for the best, fewer reporters will be scarred by Tal.

As for lamenting the Astros hiring one of the "new" breed, such as Luhnow, well that's why Jocketty got fired.  They got on his nerves.  That and the backstabbing and Witts double dealing.  But Tal Smith has been a member of SABR since before these guys were in junior high.  I think he's aware of the trends.

[Mr. Happy]

In fact, he wants to have a lie down,

Jocketty describes himself as "beat" after 13 years and the tough season they had this year and has already turned down "several" offers. Link

What's more, he was fired.  Out of the blue almost.  He wasn't on the market when the Astros were inteviewing.  And, for all practical purposes, the Astros hired Tal Smith as the GM.  Pulled a cheney and hired himself.  Jocketty would not have been a good fit.  As has been observed, Wade has worked closely with Smith before and his role will be to coordinate the major and minor league clubs... Link Link Link and he'll use his marketing skills to interact with the media, etc.  It'll work out for the best, fewer reporters will be scarred by Tal.

As for lamenting the Astros hiring one of the "new" breed, such as Luhnow, well that's why Jocketty got fired.  They got on his nerves.  That and the backstabbing and Witts double dealing.  But Tal Smith has been a member of SABR since before these guys were in junior high.  I think he's aware of the trends.

I think that you're spot on. Jocketty is a GM in the traditional sense-not a yes man to a yes man to the MBA's.

[Jose Cruz III]

He'll have the DH batting 8th since that is where the pitcher would have batted.

The best part of LaRussa to NY would be that when he gets hammered he will be in a cab not behind the wheel of an SUV.

[strosrays]

As for lamenting the Astros hiring one of the "new" breed, such as Luhnow, well that's why Jocketty got fired.  They got on his nerves.  That and the backstabbing and Witts double dealing.  But Tal Smith has been a member of SABR since before these guys were in junior high.  I think he's aware of the trends.

I imagine this is the part that irritated Jocketty.  Some guy with 1/10th his baseball experience and half his age acting like statistical analysis was invented 5 years ago.  That translates to the general baseball fan as well.  Hell, the first Bill James Baseball Abstract came out 30 years ago, when Lucknow and his kind were sitting in their high chairs, fully occupied by digging for the prize at the bottom of the box of Fruit Loops.

[Mr. Happy]

I imagine this is the part that irritated Jocketty.  Some guy with 1/10th his baseball experience and half his age acting like statistical analysis was invented 5 years ago.  That translates to the general baseball fan as well.  Hell, the first Bill James Baseball Abstract came out 30 years ago, when Lucknow and his kind were sitting in their high chairs, fully occupied by digging for the prize at the bottom of the box of Fruit Loops.

No shit. The GM columns will become nothing but SABR rattling. Where's the measurement for heart, desire, determination?

[austro]

I imagine this is the part that irritated Jocketty.  Some guy with 1/10th his baseball experience and half his age acting like statistical analysis was invented 5 years ago.  That translates to the general baseball fan as well.  Hell, the first Bill James Baseball Abstract came out 30 years ago, when Lucknow and his kind were sitting in their high chairs, fully occupied by digging for the prize at the bottom of the box of Fruit Loops.

Fruit Loops had prizes? Nobody ever told me.

[Burzmali]

"from reading about"

and that makes you a fucking expert on GMs

Did I say I was a fucking expert? Based on the information available, it was an uninspiring choice.

Music Man - Exactly why I'm not sure that there needed to be a mid-season GM change. I was glad to see the change, just the timing was interesting.

[Mr. Happy]

Did I say I was a fucking expert? Based on the information available, it was an uninspiring choice.

Music Man - Exactly why I'm not sure that there needed to be a mid-season GM change. I was glad to see the change, just the timing was interesting.

WFW

[JimR]

Did I say I was a fucking expert? Based on the information available, it was an uninspiring choice.

Music Man - Exactly why I'm not sure that there needed to be a mid-season GM change. I was glad to see the change, just the timing was interesting.

"from the information available"

"uninspiring choice"

next time they'll check with you first

[Burzmali]

"from the information available"

"uninspiring choice"

next time they'll check with you first

 

I'm posting on a fan message board, not emailing Drayton. I'm not seeing why you consider my comments about our GM search compared to a divisional rivals to be inappropriate.

[pravata]

I'm posting on a fan message board, not emailing Drayton. I'm not seeing why you consider my comments about our GM search compared to a divisional rivals to be inappropriate.

You'd probably get a better reception if you did send your thoughts to Mclane.  He seems more receptive to sloppy and lazy opinions.  This may be just a "fan message board", but it's a fan message board that does not allow these types of posts to pass uncontested.  Many appreciate this, some don't.  Your opinion of the Wade hiring overlooks many carefully calculated aspects of the Astros position.  The Astros management is not in the same position as are the Cardinals.  We've discussed why in many other places.  Some have been referenced in this thread.

[MusicMan]

Music Man - Exactly why I'm not sure that there needed to be a mid-season GM change. I was glad to see the change, just the timing was interesting.

It was as they stated - to have the new GM in place when the offseason started.

[Mr. Happy]

You'd probably get a better reception if you did send your thoughts to Mclane.  He seems more receptive to sloppy and lazy opinions.  This may be just a "fan message board", but it's a fan message board that does not allow these types of posts to pass uncontested.  Many appreciate this, some don't.  Your opinion of the Wade hiring overlooks many carefully calculated aspects of the Astros position.  The Astros management is not in the same position as are the Cardinals.  We've discussed why in many other places.  Some have been referenced in this thread.

Amen. The Astros played it just right in my view. I have a feeling that this was in the works for awhile. I have great respect for the business acumen of our owner. He's not going to go off half-cocked with his biggest asset.

[pravata]

Amen. The Astros played it just right in my view. I have a feeling that this was in the works for awhile. I have great respect for the business acumen of our owner. He's not going to go off half-cocked with his biggest asset.

I think he might.  Too much of the "customers always right" school.  Tal Smith's intervention in the Wade hiring, to me, is a good sign.  Especially, as has been speculated, Amaro was Mclane's first choice.  I can imagine (in my own Polly Prissy Pants scenario) Smith saying, "no big guy, he's not the answer for us right now, I appreciate your thoughts, but the Astros are going with Wade right now.  Now, go play with your trucks and buying up Poland." 

[Burzmali]

You'd probably get a better reception if you did send your thoughts to Mclane.  He seems more receptive to sloppy and lazy opinions.  This may be just a "fan message board", but it's a fan message board that does not allow these types of posts to pass uncontested.  Many appreciate this, some don't.  Your opinion of the Wade hiring overlooks many carefully calculated aspects of the Astros position.  The Astros management is not in the same position as are the Cardinals.  We've discussed why in many other places.  Some have been referenced in this thread.

Sigh.

I'm not saying my posts should pass uncontested, just a little less vitriol would be refreshing.

My feelings on the Wade hiring extend to the contributing circumstances. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was overlooking them. I realize that Tal has stepped up. This doesn't change my opinion that the candidates the Cardinals appear to be looking at are ones that I would hope Drayton at least thought about. But it's all said and done now, and I wish Wade and Tal the best and eagerly anticipate next season.

Go Astros!

[Mr. Happy]

Sigh.

I'm not saying my posts should pass uncontested, just a little less vitriol would be refreshing.

My feelings on the Wade hiring extend to the contributing circumstances. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was overlooking them. I realize that Tal has stepped up. This doesn't change my opinion that the candidates the Cardinals appear to be looking at are ones that I would hope Drayton at least thought about. But it's all said and done now, and I wish Wade and Tal the best and eagerly anticipate next season.

Go Astros!

Hang in there kid. This is a great place. You'll pick it up. It took me awhile. As I said, some of the smartest, wittiest and quickest people I know darken these electronic doors. I know that I have to really struggle to stay up to the task of posting relevant, accurate stuff.

[pravata]

Sigh.

I'm not saying my posts should pass uncontested, just a little less vitriol would be refreshing.

My feelings on the Wade hiring extend to the contributing circumstances. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was overlooking them. I realize that Tal has stepped up. This doesn't change my opinion that the candidates the Cardinals appear to be looking at are ones that I would hope Drayton at least thought about. But it's all said and done now, and I wish Wade and Tal the best and eagerly anticipate next season.

Go Astros!

Disagreeing is not "vitriol".  Your opinions are lazy.  Why would you think that the Astros were not aware of these candidates?  Why did they chose who they choose?  Because they're not as informed as you are?   

[Burzmali]

Disagreeing is not "vitriol".  Your opinions are lazy.  Why would you think that the Astros were not aware of these candidates?  Why did they chose who they choose?  Because they're not as informed as you are?   

I don't think the Astros were not aware of these candidates.

I assume they chose Wade because Tal wanted somebody with similarities to himself, but I'm not sure.

I don't think that I am more informed than they are, in fact I'm certain that the opposite is true.

My opinions are not lazy, I think you are reading too much into them. All I'm saying is that I like these candidates and I wish Drayton would look at guys like these.

[pravata]

I don't think the Astros were not aware of these candidates.

I assume they chose Wade because Tal wanted somebody with similarities to himself, but I'm not sure.

I don't think that I am more informed than they are, in fact I'm certain that the opposite is true.

My opinions are not lazy, I think you are reading too much into them. All I'm saying is that I like these candidates and I wish Drayton would look at guys like these.

Mclane didn't hire the GM, Smith did.  Smith has forgotten more statistical analysis than the candidates you're talking about.

[pravata]

Mclane didn't hire the GM, Smith did.  Smith has forgotten more statistical analysis than the candidates you're talking about.

And, the Astros did interview the types of guys the Cardinals are looking at.  In fact they interviewed Mozeliak, the Cardinals interim GM.  They also interviewed Steve Lubratich and Logan White. Link

[Burzmali]

Mclane didn't hire the GM, Smith did.  Smith has forgotten more statistical analysis than the candidates you're talking about.

Fair enough.

I don't like these guys because they know about stats, I'd be shocked if there was a single team in MLB that didn't use metrics for evaluation. That's not the point. I just thought some new blood might shake things up.

And I hadn't read the article in your link. Thanks for the heads up.

[pravata]

Fair enough.

I don't like these guys because they know about stats, I'd be shocked if there was a single team in MLB that didn't use metrics for evaluation. That's not the point. I just thought some new blood might shake things up.

And I hadn't read the article in your link. Thanks for the heads up.

New blood is exactly what they weren't looking for, they were looking for Tal Smith's blood.  New blood would have come in, tried their shenanigans and run right up against Drayton Mclane and his fan surveys. 

[Andyzipp]

New blood is exactly what they weren't looking for, they were looking for Tal Smith's blood.  New blood would have come in, tried their shenanigans and run right up against Drayton Mclane and his fan surveys. 

This is starting to sound very vampiric in a sire/spawn sort of way.

Tal = Magnus, Wade = Big Head Lestat?

[Lefty]

New blood is exactly what they weren't looking for, they were looking for Tal Smith's blood.  New blood would have come in, tried their shenanigans and run right up against Drayton Mclane and his fan surveys. 

Sums it up nicely, loved the way Zipp or someone put it:  Tal handles stuff, Wade handles things.  I wish Tal had been this involved from the day Purp was hired; like the Corleones, the Astros family needs a lot of buffers.  TP deserved better.

[Noe]

New blood is exactly what they weren't looking for, they were looking for Tal Smith's blood.  New blood would have come in, tried their shenanigans and run right up against Drayton Mclane and his fan surveys. 

That is why, while a Logan White or Ruben Amaro Jr would've been a chalk pick for those wanting "new blood", the fit on the Astros was going to be "same thing as the last hire".  Tim Purpura was as "new blood" as they came, forget that he was already in the organization.  He was highly rated amongst the "new blood" guys back in the early aughts.

And look what happened to him under Drayton McLane.  You basically have to hate a guy to recommend him to be the "new blood" GM under McLane.  It's better to have a guy with the desire to let Tal Smith run lead blocker for you and take some of the ego and place it on the shelf to get this job done.  The early days of Joe Torre and Brian Cashman proved that the owner could make things worse for the team if you didn't strategically put a Gene Michael in the way.

[pravata]

I wish Drayton would have gone after candidates like this.

Turns out, they did,

Indians' GM Mark Shapiro's assistant, Chris Antonetti, pulled himself out of the running for the GM jobs in Houston and Pittsburgh but is now rumored to be a target in the Cardinals' GM search.  Link

[pravata]

Mozeliak/ Luhnow Link

[Jose Cruz III]

And, the Astros did interview the types of guys the Cardinals are looking at.  In fact they interviewed Mozeliak, the Cardinals interim GM.  They also interviewed Steve Lubratich and Logan White. Link

Don't forget Randy Smith turned the job down.