Author Topic: Just shut up, shut up, shut up  (Read 9819 times)

pravata

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Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« on: September 20, 2007, 11:29:41 am »
Bunch of monkeys, they don't know a damn thing.  Just sit on your fucking hands until Drayton Mclane calls a press conference and tells everybody,

Sept. 17, 2007, 7:28PM
Astros may have new GM by Tuesday night
By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
It appears that there won't be a second round of interviews before the Astros pick their next general manager,
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/5142864.html

Sept. 18, 2007, 4:40PM
Astros may have second round of interviews for GM
By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
http://search.chron.com/chronicle/search.do;jsessionid=7EA1676980D62EAF00C56CDF4BA58E89

09/19/2007 6:57 AM
SportsJustice : Houston Chronicle Blogs
Inside the industry, Ruben Amaro Jr. is believed to be the frontrunner. One theory has Amaro coming as GM and Wade as a senior advisor.

Sept. 19, 2007, 1:22AM
Likely no more GM interviews
By BRIAN MCTAGGART
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/5147061.html

Sept. 20, 2007, 12:38AM
By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
Astros owner Drayton McLane planned to meet with former Philadelphia Phillies general manager Ed Wade this morning for the only second interview
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5145166.html

Sept. 20, 2007, 12:38AM
Astros' top brass mulls GM candidates
McLane hopes to have decision by end of weekend
By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
McLane said it was a "little aggressive" to assume a general manager could be named today, but he remained hopeful of having a GM in place by this weekend. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5145166.html

Sept. 20, 2007, 10:57AM
Astros may hire Wade as new GM by this afternoon
By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5145166.html

pravata

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2007, 12:55:22 pm »
09/20/2007 12:50 PM ET

FOOTER

Wade appears to be a leading candidate for the job, but the Astros have not ruled out bringing in more prospective GMs for second interviews. Club owner Drayton McLane hopes to have the position filled by the weekend.

Wade told KRIV no job has been offered and says team officials have not told him he is a finalist.

Link

Bonomaniac

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2007, 01:29:19 pm »
Jayson Stark says it's a done deal for Wade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3029117

MusicMan

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2007, 01:34:09 pm »
Quote
According to one baseball man who had been in touch with members of the Astros' organization, Wade was asked Wednesday to fly back to Houston for a second session because McLane needed to determine whether he could develop "a comfort level" with Wade.

Please shut the fuck up, Drayton, and let the baseball men run the show.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Lurch

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2007, 01:37:41 pm »
I wish the first word I had said when I was born was 'quote'. Then before I die, I could say, 'unquote.' --Steven Wright

EasTexAstro

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2007, 01:44:47 pm »
While the headline is misleading, astros.com seems to mention it, too.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070920&content_id=2219989&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou


ETA: Well, the headline is to the point, but the link said: Wade has second GM interview with Astros
It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of 'em was one kinda sombitch or another.

austro

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2007, 01:45:45 pm »
Jayson Stark says it's a done deal for Wade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3029117

From the article:
Quote
After being elevated to the GM job, Wade prioritized the rebuilding of the Phillies' depleted farm system. And virtually the entire nucleus of the Phillies' current team was signed and developed during his tenure.

Is he responsible for selecting and signing the likes of Hamels, Rollins, Utley, Howard, and Bourn?  I'd view that as a solid testimonial for the kind of GM that I think this club needs right now.
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Froback

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2007, 01:50:21 pm »
Of course he hired Larry Bowa too, guess nobody's perfect.

ckutac

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2007, 01:52:35 pm »
I think that Wade is a great hire to atleast get us moving in the right direction.  I am not sure if he is the GM that can win the World Series for us, but he should atleast be able to right the ship.


JimR

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2007, 01:58:49 pm »
solid baseball man and former Astro
i am encouraged.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Noe

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2007, 02:06:54 pm »
Source says that the reason Wade was the frontrunner was that Tal Smith pushed hard.  Good work Tal, finally used his influence on McLane to make him really consider a viable candidate.  McLane had to have the second interview because he had his doubts (probably because a fan e-mailed him and told him "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!").

Wade was Smith's man from very early on.  He's a Hunsicker clone in a way, perhaps with less hostility in how he works with others.  Frankly, with a whole lot less hostility.

austro

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2007, 02:08:18 pm »
Stuck in a tree http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_wiretap_archives/7247/20070817/former_phillies_gm_gets_stuck_in_tree/

Now that is some thorough vetting. Fortunately, there are precious few trees around MMPUS, so he should be safe.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

astrojo

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2007, 02:09:18 pm »
Now that is some thorough vetting. Fortunately, there are precious few trees around MMPUS, so he should be safe.

on opening day he can parachute onto the field

strosrays

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2007, 02:09:52 pm »
Source says that the reason Wade was the frontrunner was that Tal Smith pushed hard.  Good work Tal, finally used his influence on McLane to make him really consider a viable candidate.  McLane had to have the second interview because he had his doubts (probably because a fan e-mailed him and told him "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!").

Wade was Smith's man from very early on.  He's a Hunsicker clone in a way, perhaps with less hostility in how he works with others.  Frankly, with a whole lot less hostility.


Right.  And he fits in with the diversity profile, too, 'cos he's from the northeast.

pravata

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2007, 02:13:43 pm »

Right.  And he fits in with the diversity profile, too, 'cos he's from the northeast.

Compassionate of the Astros to hire the handicapped.

S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2007, 02:17:28 pm »
solid baseball man and former Astro
i am encouraged.

Speaking for myself, I'm only familiar with Wade from his years in Philly, where he was villified for all their failures.  I appreciate you providing your info on Wade.  I think we are starting to see more facts than editorial regurgitation and it falls in line with your comments.  He seems like a good choice, not that I would know otherwise. 
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Jacksonian

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2007, 02:25:33 pm »
Goin' for a bus ride.

Froback

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2007, 02:28:39 pm »
Speaking for myself, I'm only familiar with Wade from his years in Philly, where he was villified for all their failures.  I appreciate you providing your info on Wade.  I think we are starting to see more facts than editorial regurgitation and it falls in line with your comments.  He seems like a good choice, not that I would know otherwise. 
I think all you can ask for in a choice is they look good when you choose them... Whether or not they look good later will be a testament to how good (or bad) they do in the job.  Just like you can't really evaluate a draft for 3-5 yrs, so true with a GM, although it typically can take more than that to know for sure.

MusicMan

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2007, 02:43:29 pm »
OK... what am I missing here?

I know that looking at ESPN comments is just surounding yourself with knuckle-draggers, but this makes it sound like Ed Wade makes CAm Bonifay look like Branch Rickey.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Froback

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2007, 02:46:13 pm »
OK... what am I missing here?

I know that looking at ESPN comments is just surounding yourself with knuckle-draggers, but this makes it sound like Ed Wade makes CAm Bonifay look like Branch Rickey.
They are all Philly fans, what would you expect?  Enlightened minds they are not.

strosrays

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2007, 02:55:56 pm »
OK... what am I missing here?

I know that looking at ESPN comments is just surounding yourself with knuckle-draggers, but this makes it sound like Ed Wade makes CAm Bonifay look like Branch Rickey.


Judge, I'd like to enter that list of comments, top to bottom, into evidence, as proof of why we should be happy Greg Lucas and his kind don't tout OWA over the air.

Noe

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2007, 02:57:28 pm »
OK... what am I missing here?

I know that looking at ESPN comments is just surounding yourself with knuckle-draggers, but this makes it sound like Ed Wade makes CAm Bonifay look like Branch Rickey.

Now I know who sent Drayton the e-mail that simply said "NOOOOOOooo!".  It was Dustin, the freak!  (BTW - Philly Phans hate Ed Wade, just like Brewer fans hate Phil Garner, Astros fans hate Tim Purpura, et. al.  Nothing new).

BUWebguy

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2007, 03:02:33 pm »
Who is this guy on MLB.TV right now (or wherever it is the press conference video link sent me)? Wow... This guy is not good.
"If you can't figure out that Astros doesn't have an apostrophe, you shouldn't be able to comment." - Ron Brand, June 9, 2010

MusicMan

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2007, 03:04:30 pm »
Holy shit... Richard Justice, voice of reason?

Quote
Here's the good and the bad on new Astros GM Ed Wade
First the good news. Virtually the entire nucleus of the Phillies' current team was signed and developed during his tenure as general manager (1998-2005). Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Pat Burrell, Brett Myers, Marlon Byrd and Taylor Bucchholz were all drafted when Wade was in charge. He took over an organization that was a mess and made it almost as productive as any.

Ed Wade is tough, smart and organized. His track record says he'll fix what's wrong with the Astros at that level. From the narrow perspective of player development, the Astros couldn't have hired anyone better.

He hired two managers--Larry Bowa and Charlie Manuel. Bowa's tenure was interesting if nothing else. Manuel might be the NL Manager of the Year.

Now the bad. He traded Scott Rolen and Curt Schilling and didn't get nearly enough for them. He handed out some horrendous contracts to Mike Lieberthal and David Bell and dumb no-trade clauses in deals for Bobby Abreu and Jim Thome. He got into childish feuds with the Philly media.

That said, this is a decent hire. It's not a daring hire or a leap of faith. Ed Wade will paint the town beige. But that's okay. This organization needs someone that, first of all, will get them back on track at the minor league level.

Before anything else happens, they must fix what's broken there. Until they get more talent into the organization, nothing else will matter.

Wade knows the lay of the land. Tal Smith hired him to be public relations-director of the Astros in the '70s. He resigned after Smith was fired and went to work for Tal. He eventually joined the Phillies and methodically climbed the masthead, until being named general manager in 1998.

He became a punching bad for the Philly talk-show nitwits. Some of the criticism was legitimate, but most of it was typical talk-show gas. If anyone tells you Ed Wade is incompetent, don't believe them.

This hire tells you that Tal Smith still has huge power with Drayton McLane. That's okay. Considering who has been in charge of the baseball operation the last year, Tal Smith is a huge upgrade.

He believes in being aggressive with young players and with emphasizing pitching and defense. Ed Wade clearly believes in the same things, or he wouldn't have been hired.

Wade surely knows that Drayton McLane will have a hand in every move. That's okay. It's his team. He had a hand when the Astros went to the playoffs six times in nine years. Every organization operates differently. The Astros interviewed a lot of people that were plenty competent. Now the hard work can begin.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2007, 03:05:17 pm »
Most of the comments are baseless, coming from fans who, much like in Houston, think that if you can't win immediately you are worthless.  Which is to say, they are so clueless, they are clueless about being clueless.  Add in a healthy does of spiteful rage, as it's Philly we're talking about (you know, the fans that cheered a guy laying on the ground, immobile, after experiencing a career ending neck injury!).  Anyway, I know I'm clueless which is why I wouldn't even venture a guess on who to pick. 

Wade seems to have some success with drafting and developing positional players so hopefully that can be balanced with the Astros organizations past success drafting and developing pitching. 
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."

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Jacksonian

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2007, 03:06:34 pm »
OK... what am I missing here?

I know that looking at ESPN comments is just surounding yourself with knuckle-draggers, but this makes it sound like Ed Wade makes CAm Bonifay look like Branch Rickey.

Hindsighting by the stupid.

They bag on the no-trade given to Burrell.  But, he'd just come off a monster 02 and looked like he'd be a mainstay in leftfield for a decade or more.

The draft is a crapshoot.  I don't look at the results but at the philosophy and scouting.  It looks like he's got something of a Purp view of drafting going for the best available while also not being afraid to take high schoolers early.  Based on my memory it looks like he took players in the first round who were generally expected to go where they were taken.
Goin' for a bus ride.

Jacksonian

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Goin' for a bus ride.

BUWebguy

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2007, 03:19:17 pm »
Comparing the two franchises: From 2001-2006, Astros averaged 88 wins; same time period, Phillies averaged 85 wins in an arguably tougher division. Only twice in that time did the Astros finish more than four games ahead of the Phillies.
"If you can't figure out that Astros doesn't have an apostrophe, you shouldn't be able to comment." - Ron Brand, June 9, 2010

pravata

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2007, 03:31:22 pm »
What they said in Philadelphia when they fired Wade,

Team president David Montgomery said he was aware of the fans' opinion.

"We do listen to the fans and we try to connect to the fans," Montgomery said.
Link

kevwun

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2007, 04:17:29 pm »
I am not making fun of him or his abilities as a gm.  He really looks like a hobbit.
Crazy Joe McCluskey was fucking nuts.  It's why they called him Crazy Joe.

Noe

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2007, 05:45:28 pm »
I am not making fun of him or his abilities as a gm.  He really looks like a hobbit.

Ed Baggins?

utastro

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2007, 10:12:51 pm »
Oh God, I wish I was a loofah!

Craig

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2007, 10:33:24 pm »
MeriEDoc.

MusicMan

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2007, 09:39:47 am »
I'll just call him Pippin.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

FullCount

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2007, 02:31:04 pm »
Philly area fan here who lived and died through 8 years of Wade's stewardship of the Phils. FWIW, I thought I'd share one person's perspectives on your new GM.

Quote
Virtually the entire nucleus of the Phillies' current team was signed and developed during his tenure as general manager (1998-2005). Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Pat Burrell, Brett Myers, Marlon Byrd and Taylor Bucchholz were all drafted when Wade was in charge.
The credit goes to Asst GM Mike Arbuckle for this. Arby was Scouting Director and still heads up Scouting and Development. Arbuckle came out of the Braves system and was hired by Wade's predecessor, Lee Thomas, to turnaround an ailing scouting department. Arbuckle has been more than competent as his draft record shows. Wade's contribution was primarily to let Arbuckle do his thing. Wade never played, scouted, coached or managed at the professional level before becoming GM and it's generally believed he doesn't have an eye for talent. What Wade did contribute was the hiring of Sal Artiaga to head up Latin American operations. The Phils once had the best scouting system in Latin America going back to the Carpenter ownership years but Giles suspended operations and the Phils have been playing catch-up ever since. Under Wade, Arby and Artiaga, the Phils established academies in both DR and Venezuela and prospects are beginning to appear stateside and work their way through the minor league levels. C Carlos Ruiz is hopefully the first fruit of the renewed emphasis.

Quote
He took over an organization that was a mess and made it almost as productive as any.
The organization is hardly a mess. It's a well-managed organization and team CEO Dave Montgomery, a Wharton grad, is very highly regarded within MLB circles. For years, they were handicapped by a bad stadium, a worse stadium deal that severely curtailed revenues and fan disaffection for the ownership group. What frustrates local fans is the perception that ownership lacks interest, involvement or any desire to win. Giles has been quoted as saying their objective is to provide quality family entertainment. That winning wasn't mentioned and the franchise hasn't made the playoffs since 1993 is the sticking point. Wade is a local guy whose career actually began in the Phillies PR department after graduating Temple University before he went to work for the Astros and Smith back in the day; there's some thought that Giles, who himself has Houston connections having been VP Marketing for Hofheinz, brokered Wade's going to work for Smith and learning contracts and procedures as part of a grooming program for him. Wade quickly became Asst GM to Thomas after he returned to Philly. He was seen as very much a company man who did Giles and Montgomery's bidding; it would be extremely hard to make the case that he was in any way a turn-around artist. His teams struggled to play .500 ball until he was given increased payrolls beginning in 2002-3 in anticipation of the new ballpark in 2004. He used the money to buy free agents like Thome and trade for salary castoffs like Wagner. The teams he had in the latter part of his tenure were better but he still could not find a playoff combination despite a payroll approaching $100 million.

Quote
Ed Wade is tough, smart and organized. His track record says he'll fix what's wrong with the Astros at that level. From the narrow perspective of player development, the Astros couldn't have hired anyone better.
Wade knows contracts and MLB procedures, so the organized part of that is correct. He's a capable Ass't GM and if his real role is to front for Smith, he may do well. He had a reputation of having poor relations with the media (despite being a former PR hack) including a chair throwing incident, so perhaps that's where the "tough" label comes from. It's hard to make much of a case for either his being very smart or having much skill at player development. Wade's handling of the Rolen and Ashby trades is indicative of his "smarts". Wade was working on deals with both Cincy and St. Louis for Rolen. The St Louis deal was to get the Phils Polanco, Timlin and then highly-regarded pitching prospect Journell. Wade told StL he was taking the Reds deal before it had been cleared through the owner. When Cincy pulled out, he had to go back to StL hat in hand and re-open talks. The Cards took Journell off the table and put in Bud Smith instead, who proved to be damaged goods. Although Journell didn't amount to anything either, this kind of blundering was costly. It was generally believed SD GM Towers bluffed him into thinking he had another offer for Andy Ashby and was able the extract then highly regarded prospect Eaton in the deal. Wade's ability to play poker with the big boys is an issue, but hopefully Smith stays involved on that front.

On the player development front, Wade tried to implement "The Phillies Way", a handbook that intended to standardize instruction throughout the minor league system. It never gained traction for reasons that aren't clear, but it's likely that Wade, a suit, pushing an instructional manual on baseball lifers was doomed from the start.

Quote
He hired two managers--Larry Bowa and Charlie Manuel. Bowa's tenure was interesting if nothing else. Manuel might be the NL Manager of the Year.
These are good examples of Wade at work. Bowa was hired primarily to provide a jolt to ticket sales. Bowa, the SS of the 1980 World Championship team has a very large following in the area. Manual has a very close relationship with Thome and his hiring was widely seen as a move to please Thome and restore some calm to a clubhouse rent by Bowa's shenanigans. Thome's hiring was especially criticized because Leyland had thrown his hat into the ring and was passed over, purportedly because he couldn't be trusted to take the company line. In both situations you can see Wade's decision process being influenced by factors that have little to do with a drive to win. It was reported in the local papers after Manual's hiring that Wade said that one of the other candidates, Terry Pendleton, had interviewed so well they had to find reasons not to hire him.

Quote
Now the bad. He traded Scott Rolen and Curt Schilling and didn't get nearly enough for them. He handed out some horrendous contracts to Mike Lieberthal and David Bell and dumb no-trade clauses in deals for Bobby Abreu and Jim Thome. He got into childish feuds with the Philly media.
That Wade made bad deals for Schilling and Rolen is an understatement. The Phils have not one asset left in the organization from either of those trades. The Lieberthal and Abreu contracts came on the heels of Schilling and Rolen openly criticizing Phillie management for being too cheap to put a winning product on the field as they headed out the door. Those contracts were damage control and in truth, were not complete disasters. Wade gave away FNTC too easily however. The criticism about his media relationship is spot on.

Quote
This hire tells you that Tal Smith still has huge power with Drayton McLane. That's okay. Considering who has been in charge of the baseball operation the last year, Tal Smith is a huge upgrade.

He believes in being aggressive with young players and with emphasizing pitching and defense. Ed Wade clearly believes in the same things, or he wouldn't have been hired.
The Ed Wade who worked here was absolutely not aggressive with young players. Take a look at the pace Utley and Howard were moved through the minors and you'll pretty much see a level at a time. Utley was even held prisoner at AAA well beyond when he was ready for an everyday job with the big club. After getting Polanco to play third in the Rolen deal, wade overpaid David Bell in the offseason, moving Polanco to second, effectively blocking Utley. While Utley was stuck in AAA and Bell struggled with injuries and non-performance, when Wade finally made a move it was to unload Polanco. We're suffering the consequences of that decision to this day.

Wade isn't completely inept but his skill set is extremely limited. He knows the intracacies of MLB's rules. He won't make mistakes there. He can generally work out fair contracts, FNTC aside. He generally did a good job hoarding his top prospects when he was making trades (although it was rumored he had Howard on the table at the 2005 deadline). He has the reputation of being very loyal and being a company man through and through. It's very likely that's the reason Smith wanted him in the first place; he will work well with Smith and not create waves.

But his modus operandi here was to come out of the October organizational meetings with his to do list for the next season and diligently ticking off the tasks before Spring Training. But once that was done he was incapable of moving on the fly. His midseason transactions were a running joke. Aside from free agent acquisitions that he made when his budget was suddenly increased in 2002-3, you'll have a tough time finding any transactions in which he brought in players that improved the team. Robert Person for Paul Spoljaric, Paul Byrd (rumored to have been strongly recommended to him by Scheuerholtz) and Victorino (recommended by Ruben Amaro Sr) pretty much exhausts the list. Not much to show for 8 years, which of course explains why he never reached the postseason and why he was available to you.

I was glad to see him gone and I'm glad he was hired by another NL club. I'm only sorry it wasn't a divisional rival. Good luck.

Astroholic

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2007, 03:18:56 pm »
Philly area fan here who lived and died through 8 years of Wade's stewardship of the Phils. FWIW, I thought I'd share one person's perspectives on your new GM.
 The credit goes to Asst GM Mike Arbuckle for this. Arby was Scouting Director and still heads up Scouting and Development. Arbuckle came out of the Braves system and was hired by Wade's predecessor, Lee Thomas, to turnaround an ailing scouting department. Arbuckle has been more than competent as his draft record shows. Wade's contribution was primarily to let Arbuckle do his thing. Wade never played, scouted, coached or managed at the professional level before becoming GM and it's generally believed he doesn't have an eye for talent. What Wade did contribute was the hiring of Sal Artiaga to head up Latin American operations. The Phils once had the best scouting system in Latin America going back to the Carpenter ownership years but Giles suspended operations and the Phils have been playing catch-up ever since. Under Wade, Arby and Artiaga, the Phils established academies in both DR and Venezuela and prospects are beginning to appear stateside and work their way through the minor league levels. C Carlos Ruiz is hopefully the first fruit of the renewed emphasis.
 The organization is hardly a mess. It's a well-managed organization and team CEO Dave Montgomery, a Wharton grad, is very highly regarded within MLB circles. For years, they were handicapped by a bad stadium, a worse stadium deal that severely curtailed revenues and fan disaffection for the ownership group. What frustrates local fans is the perception that ownership lacks interest, involvement or any desire to win. Giles has been quoted as saying their objective is to provide quality family entertainment. That winning wasn't mentioned and the franchise hasn't made the playoffs since 1993 is the sticking point. Wade is a local guy whose career actually began in the Phillies PR department after graduating Temple University before he went to work for the Astros and Smith back in the day; there's some thought that Giles, who himself has Houston connections having been VP Marketing for Hofheinz, brokered Wade's going to work for Smith and learning contracts and procedures as part of a grooming program for him. Wade quickly became Asst GM to Thomas after he returned to Philly. He was seen as very much a company man who did Giles and Montgomery's bidding; it would be extremely hard to make the case that he was in any way a turn-around artist. His teams struggled to play .500 ball until he was given increased payrolls beginning in 2002-3 in anticipation of the new ballpark in 2004. He used the money to buy free agents like Thome and trade for salary castoffs like Wagner. The teams he had in the latter part of his tenure were better but he still could not find a playoff combination despite a payroll approaching $100 million.
Wade knows contracts and MLB procedures, so the organized part of that is correct. He's a capable Ass't GM and if his real role is to front for Smith, he may do well. He had a reputation of having poor relations with the media (despite being a former PR hack) including a chair throwing incident, so perhaps that's where the "tough" label comes from. It's hard to make much of a case for either his being very smart or having much skill at player development. Wade's handling of the Rolen and Ashby trades is indicative of his "smarts". Wade was working on deals with both Cincy and St. Louis for Rolen. The St Louis deal was to get the Phils Polanco, Timlin and then highly-regarded pitching prospect Journell. Wade told StL he was taking the Reds deal before it had been cleared through the owner. When Cincy pulled out, he had to go back to StL hat in hand and re-open talks. The Cards took Journell off the table and put in Bud Smith instead, who proved to be damaged goods. Although Journell didn't amount to anything either, this kind of blundering was costly. It was generally believed SD GM Towers bluffed him into thinking he had another offer for Andy Ashby and was able the extract then highly regarded prospect Eaton in the deal. Wade's ability to play poker with the big boys is an issue, but hopefully Smith stays involved on that front.

On the player development front, Wade tried to implement "The Phillies Way", a handbook that intended to standardize instruction throughout the minor league system. It never gained traction for reasons that aren't clear, but it's likely that Wade, a suit, pushing an instructional manual on baseball lifers was doomed from the start.
These are good examples of Wade at work. Bowa was hired primarily to provide a jolt to ticket sales. Bowa, the SS of the 1980 World Championship team has a very large following in the area. Manual has a very close relationship with Thome and his hiring was widely seen as a move to please Thome and restore some calm to a clubhouse rent by Bowa's shenanigans. Thome's hiring was especially criticized because Leyland had thrown his hat into the ring and was passed over, purportedly because he couldn't be trusted to take the company line. In both situations you can see Wade's decision process being influenced by factors that have little to do with a drive to win. It was reported in the local papers after Manual's hiring that Wade said that one of the other candidates, Terry Pendleton, had interviewed so well they had to find reasons not to hire him.
That Wade made bad deals for Schilling and Rolen is an understatement. The Phils have not one asset left in the organization from either of those trades. The Lieberthal and Abreu contracts came on the heels of Schilling and Rolen openly criticizing Phillie management for being too cheap to put a winning product on the field as they headed out the door. Those contracts were damage control and in truth, were not complete disasters. Wade gave away FNTC too easily however. The criticism about his media relationship is spot on.
The Ed Wade who worked here was absolutely not aggressive with young players. Take a look at the pace Utley and Howard were moved through the minors and you'll pretty much see a level at a time. Utley was even held prisoner at AAA well beyond when he was ready for an everyday job with the big club. After getting Polanco to play third in the Rolen deal, wade overpaid David Bell in the offseason, moving Polanco to second, effectively blocking Utley. While Utley was stuck in AAA and Bell struggled with injuries and non-performance, when Wade finally made a move it was to unload Polanco. We're suffering the consequences of that decision to this day.

Wade isn't completely inept but his skill set is extremely limited. He knows the intracacies of MLB's rules. He won't make mistakes there. He can generally work out fair contracts, FNTC aside. He generally did a good job hoarding his top prospects when he was making trades (although it was rumored he had Howard on the table at the 2005 deadline). He has the reputation of being very loyal and being a company man through and through. It's very likely that's the reason Smith wanted him in the first place; he will work well with Smith and not create waves.

But his modus operandi here was to come out of the October organizational meetings with his to do list for the next season and diligently ticking off the tasks before Spring Training. But once that was done he was incapable of moving on the fly. His midseason transactions were a running joke. Aside from free agent acquisitions that he made when his budget was suddenly increased in 2002-3, you'll have a tough time finding any transactions in which he brought in players that improved the team. Robert Person for Paul Spoljaric, Paul Byrd (rumored to have been strongly recommended to him by Scheuerholtz) and Victorino (recommended by Ruben Amaro Sr) pretty much exhausts the list. Not much to show for 8 years, which of course explains why he never reached the postseason and why he was available to you.

I was glad to see him gone and I'm glad he was hired by another NL club. I'm only sorry it wasn't a divisional rival. Good luck.


Noe, is this your cousin from philly?  Good Lord!

Noe

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2007, 05:45:09 pm »
Noe, is this your cousin from philly?  Good Lord!

My cousins respect Santa Claus, so no.

ybbodeus

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Re: Just shut up, shut up, shut up
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2007, 06:04:59 pm »
Wow!  {bangs head}  I could have had a V8!
"(512) ybbodeus looks just as creepy in HD as in person."   That is a problem, and we are working on it.