NYCU 08-29-07

[Noe]

Nice work pravata:

No problem says Lance

What I still have not figured out is why McLane fired Phil Garner the day after he let Purpura go.  I do think that McLane can get rid of anyone he wants for any reason he wants and he shared why with Purpura.  But Phil?  First we had Brad Ausmus question the move on a standpoint of whether Phil had lost the clubhouse.  Ausmus said no.  So why the move?  And now I read this from Lance Berkman that Cooper is pretty much the status quo guy for them.  So now I really wonder about this because doesn't stand to reason if you're going to let someone go because of "stagnation", you would make a drastic change?  You know, like from wound tight Terry Collins to laid back Larry Dierker sort of move?  But Lance says that it's not different having Coop as the manager as it is having Scraps still driving this circus bus.  Whaaa?

So why couldn't McLane wait until the offseason to make his move on Garner? (a question Phil asks as well)

Why Cooper if he wants to change the atmosphere on this team?

Is he placating the charges of being a racist by this interim move?

Will he honestly allow Coop to stay or will he change the GM and order him to find a manager that is different from Coop and Garner?

McLane leaves some hole here in what he's doing and I'm not entirely convinced that Drayton McLane didn't just get fed up with the fans caustic remarks evey ballpark appearance he made that he finally just went crazy and started to chop off heads.   If so, it's sadder than I thought.

[Dobro]

Lance Berkman didn't make the decision to fire Garner.  Maybe McLane doesn't feel like Cooper is "status quo."  Or maybe he's unsure and wants a trial run with Cooper. 

Many of you guys are out of control with the drivel that's been posted in the last 48 hours. 

*edit: meant to say Garner, not Purpura

[Taras Bulba]

The team has underperfomed for quite a while now and Drayton has had a front row seat to watch it happen.  Has he meddled?  It appears so.  Has he brought in talent?  Without question.  Did he allow his GM to operate reasonably?  Could be no, but he wasn't entirely confident in Purpura (see Lane, Ensberg et al).  Were the firings and subsequent comments Drayton's finest hour?  No.  But, I don't think he went nuts.  His team is not good and he's got a shit load of money poured into it.  Heads have and will roll.  Can he make it worse by his moves?  Yes.  But, this is an owner who is not content with letting it go to hell without trying to change.  The city could do a lot worse.

[MusicMan]

Lance Berkman didn't make the decision to fire Purpura.  Maybe McLane doesn't feel like Cooper is "status quo."  Or maybe he's unsure and wants a trial run with Cooper. 

Many of you guys are out of control with the drivel that's been posted in the last 48 hours. 

I agree that he wants a trial run with Cooper.  And I think the "change of direction" comments were aimed at Purpura.  But I don't think he has an idea of where he wants to go, other than to scream "I wanna wiiiiiiin" like Ricky Bobby.

[Dobro]

I agree that he wants a trial run with Cooper.  And I think the "change of direction" comments were aimed at Purpura.  But I don't think he has an idea of where he wants to go, other than to scream "I wanna wiiiiiiin" like Ricky Bobby.

I assure you he knows where he wants to go; he just may not know how to get there yet.  It won't be hard to go up from where they're at now though.  That's for certain.

[Dobro]

The team has underperfomed for quite a while now and Drayton has had a front row seat to watch it happen.  Has he meddled?  It appears so.  Has he brought in talent?  Without question.  Did he allow his GM to operate reasonably?  Could be no, but he wasn't entirely confident in Purpura (see Lane, Ensberg et al).  Were the firings and subsequent comments Drayton's finest hour?  No.  But, I don't think he went nuts.  His team is not good and he's got a shit load of money poured into it.  Heads have and will roll.  Can he make it worse by his moves?  Yes.  But, this is an owner who is not content with letting it go to hell without trying to change.  The city could do a lot worse.

Absolutely.

[Noe]

The team has underperfomed for quite a while now and Drayton has had a front row seat to watch it happen.  Has he meddled?  It appears so.  Has he brought in talent?  Without question.  Did he allow his GM to operate reasonably?  Could be no, but he wasn't entirely confident in Purpura (see Lane, Ensberg et al).  Were the firings and subsequent comments Drayton's finest hour?  No.  But, I don't think he went nuts.  His team is not good and he's got a shit load of money poured into it.  Heads have and will roll.  Can he make it worse by his moves?  Yes.  But, this is an owner who is not content with letting it go to hell without trying to change.  The city could do a lot worse.

Who said anything about Purpura?  And who said McLane isn't allowed to fire anyone?  I was pretty clear on what I was asking, no?  Wasn't it crystal clear to you I was asking about Phil Garner, you know... the ex-manager?

[JimR]

The team has underperfomed for quite a while now and Drayton has had a front row seat to watch it happen.  Has he meddled?  It appears so.  Has he brought in talent?  Without question.  Did he allow his GM to operate reasonably?  Could be no, but he wasn't entirely confident in Purpura (see Lane, Ensberg et al).  Were the firings and subsequent comments Drayton's finest hour?  No.  But, I don't think he went nuts.  His team is not good and he's got a shit load of money poured into it.  Heads have and will roll.  Can he make it worse by his moves?  Yes.  But, this is an owner who is not content with letting it go to hell without trying to change.  The city could do a lot worse.

is he your uncle  or just a Baylor alum?

[JimR]

Lance Berkman didn't make the decision to fire Garner.  Maybe McLane doesn't feel like Cooper is "status quo."  Or maybe he's unsure and wants a trial run with Cooper. 

Many of you guys are out of control with the drivel that's been posted in the last 48 hours. 

*edit: meant to say Garner, not Purpura

the expert arrives to set all "you guys" straight.

[Noe]

I agree that he wants a trial run with Cooper.  And I think the "change of direction" comments were aimed at Purpura.  But I don't think he has an idea of where he wants to go, other than to scream "I wanna wiiiiiiin" like Ricky Bobby.

So why did he fire Garner?

[Noe]

the expert arrives to set all "you guys" straight.

If you look at MM's quote, apparently some thought I was talking about Purpura and reacted to it.  I wasn't.  My basic question(s) still stand and no one has taken a stab at it:   Why was Phil Garner fired?

[MusicMan]

So why did he fire Garner?

I think he had no other intention than "I'd like to see if Cooper can do better".

[JimR]

If you look at MM's quote, apparently some thought I was talking about Purpura and reacted to it.  I wasn't.

Dobro defending McLane replied to you.

[Noe]

I think he had no other intention than "I'd like to see if Cooper can do better".

Cool, but what eggszactly was Garner doing worse?

[MusicMan]

Garner is a very different scenario than Purpura.  And I think that's why you've seen them react so differently.

Managers are hired to be fired.  The same is not true of GMs.

[MusicMan]

Cool, but what eggszactly was Garner doing worse?

Oh - in Drayton's mind, he couldn't give you a better answer than "losing".  I don't have any expectation that Drayton can differentiate how the two are runing the team apart from looking at W-L record.

[pravata]

Cool, but what eggszactly was Garner doing worse?

That's where the fan input comes in.  Pinch hit Palmeiro when he should've used Lamb, played Lane, didn't play Burke, Brad Ausmus, (cause they gotta bitch about Ausmus), threw Borkowski when he should've use Wheeler, that crap.  The stuff that we hear all the time about how Garner is a bad manager.

[94CougarGrad]

Cool, but what eggszactly was Garner doing worse?

Especially since one of the headlining players says the transition from Garner to Cooper will be relatively painless, since they're almost one and the same philosophy-wise?

[pravata]

Especially since one of the headlining players says the transition from Garner to Cooper will be relatively painless, since they're almost one and the same philosophy-wise?

Now with added enthusiasm!

[94CougarGrad]

Now with added enthusiasm!

Enthusiasm- the new MSG!

[Noe]

Dobro defending McLane replied to you.

I'm not really asking for a defense of McLane as much as viable explanation for the move to get rid of Garner.  Ausmus said Scrap did not lose the clubhouse (usually the tell-tell sign that a manager needs to go now!).  Berkman now says that nothing is different.  Insanity = doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

So why the move?    Is it about posturing Cooper as a hire that McLane has in place right now to appease the charges of racism made by many (media and alike)?  I don't really think so, I hope not... I believe Coop has earned a shot to prove himself beyond the color of his skin.  So Coop is basically the same guy as Garner, so says one player.  Hmmmm... maybe it is about giving Cooper a chance and that's fine.  But nothing radical is going to change if that is an expectation from McLane and that would not be fair to Cooper in that sense.  What is McLane's expectation for the next 30 days?  What will he tell the new GM if he wants to keep Cooper around and the philosophy of the new GM is that a change from the previous regime really needs to happen and a clean sweep is in order?

I think MM is probably the most correct of us all: He doesn't know what he wants, he just did it!

[Noe]

That's where the fan input comes in.  Pinch hit Palmeiro when he should've used Lamb, played Lane, didn't play Burke, Brad Ausmus, (cause they gotta bitch about Ausmus), threw Borkowski when he should've use Wheeler, that crap.  The stuff that we hear all the time about how Garner is a bad manager.

Eggszactly where I went first.  I hope that wasn't a player in that decision because it seemed to have an effect on the other firing.  Sad, again, if it's true.  I wonder though, how many of those same fans said "Phil Garner should bench Craig Biggio!" and it was met with a deaf ear by McLane?

[Noe]

Garner is a very different scenario than Purpura.  And I think that's why you've seen them react so differently.

Managers are hired to be fired.  The same is not true of GMs.

Understood, but you fire a manager in order to effect a change.  What change happens with Coop?  Berkman says "not much".

[Noe]

Especially since one of the headlining players says the transition from Garner to Cooper will be relatively painless, since they're almost one and the same philosophy-wise?

Yes, eggszactly!

[hostros7]

I'm not really asking for a defense of McLane as much as viable explanation for the move to get rid of Garner.  Ausmus said Scrap did not lose the clubhouse (usually the tell-tell sign that a manager needs to go now!).  Berkman now says that nothing is different.  Insanity = doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

So why the move?    Is it about posturing Cooper as a hire that McLane has in place right now to appease the charges of racism made by many (media and alike)?  I don't really think so, I hope not... I believe Coop has earned a shot to prove himself beyond the color of his skin.  So Coop is basically the same guy as Garner, so says one player.  Hmmmm... maybe it is about giving Cooper a chance and that's fine.  But nothing radical is going to change if that is an expectation from McLane and that would not be fair to Cooper in that sense.  What is McLane's expectation for the next 30 days?  What will he tell the new GM if he wants to keep Cooper around and the philosophy of the new GM is that a change from the previous regime really needs to happen and a clean sweep is in order?

I think MM is probably the most correct of us all: He doesn't know what he wants, he just did it!

I agree the decision doesn't make much sense if Cooper is the guy they bring back for next season.  However....if they don't bring him back does this early firing make it easier for the club to approach potential managers and allow themselves some sort of competitive edge in the hiring process?  You know, to like, help offset the perception that the grocer has become the butcher.

[Noe]

I agree the decision doesn't make much sense if Cooper is the guy they bring back for next season.  However....if they don't bring him back does this early firing make it easier for the club to approach potential managers and allow themselves some sort of competitive edge in the hiring process?  You know, to like, help offset the perception that the grocer has become the butcher.

Interesting point.  Why do it now though and put up a rouse of a "trial" for Cooper?  Why not wait until the offseason (something Scraps said he was kind of expecting to happen then)? Something triggered the firing now.  I suspect we all know what triggered the firing of Purpura, that much has been exhausted.... but what was the trigger for Garner's heave-ho?  Now is the key for me, not that he got fired per se.

[94CougarGrad]

I think MM is probably the most correct of us all: He doesn't know what he wants, he just did it!

"Because I'm the boss, that's why."

(Well, yes, sir, but what are we going to do now?)

"You're fired."

[hostros7]

Something triggered the firing now. 

Sand in the vagina?

I think that Garner is too classy of a guy for Joe Public to ever figure out if there was a casual incident.

[Noe]

Sand in the vagina?

I think that Garner is too classy of a guy for Joe Public to ever figure out if there was a casual incident.

Strange isn't it.  I guess we will never know because even though Scraps said he expected something like this to happen in the offseason, he didn't quibble with the fact that it was done.  He was also very happy that Coop got the nod.  It basically means status quo... maybe something that perhaps McLane didn't really think about.

Funny if he was trying to effect change though.  Too funny.

[MusicMan]

"Because I'm the boss, that's why."

(Well, yes, sir, but what are we going to do now?)

"You're fired."

And thus we've come full circle to "McLane as Steinbrenner".

Steinbrenner didn't need a reason other than "we're not winning" to fire managers.  Shoot, he didn't even need that one sometimes.

[Noe]

And thus we've come full circle to "McLane as Steinbrenner".

Steinbrenner didn't need a reason other than "we're not winning" to fire managers.  Shoot, he didn't even need that one sometimes.

Which is why applying some semblence of logic behind the move given what Berkman and Ausmus said was maybe going too far with this.  It has no logic, not intent, not real direction... it is about being the owner and being able to do this just because.

[hostros7]

Apropos of Steinbrenner, no logic, no intent and no real direction...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Estw0n0OE2U

[pravata]

There's a video over at astros.com with Harold Reynolds "The Lineup Card"?  Says he has the "Inside Scoop".  He must have incontinent dogs.  (I don't know how to link to this)

[BUWebguy]

Along similar lines, here's the part I don't get. McLane said he believed at the start of the year, and even somewhat now, that this team has the talent to win.

A GM's job is to get talent. If they have the talent, why fire the GM?
If they don't have the talent, why fire the manager?

The two moves (firing the GM and firing the manager) almost seem contradictory.

[MusicMan]

There's a video over at astros.com with Harold Reynolds "The Lineup Card"?  Says he has the "Inside Scoop".  He must have incontinent dogs.  (I don't know how to link to this)

Major points:

1.  This is not built as a "Garner" team.  Couldn't be agressive - no speed, base to base club.
2.  Poor defense - players out of position.
3.  Lidge struggled since the Pujols HR.  No longer "comfortable" in Houston.  Should have traded him.

I stopped listening when he described Loretta as a "perennial" All-Star 2b.  No insight there.

Galante's interview:
1.  Surprised at the timing.
2.  Need to solidify pitching, both starting and relief.  At least one more quality SP, then plug in the kids.
3.  Need to determine the offseason plan.

I couldn't make it any further.  Reynolds is terrible and Matty is not offering much.

[Froback]

Cool, but what eggszactly was Garner doing worse?

Ok, I don't know how true this is, but what I have heard about Cooper is actually that he is a no nonsense type.  One who has the same policy for everyone, ie no favorites or special treatment.

I think Garner had the perception (based on Drayton's comments) that he was to buddy-buddy with certain guys and allowed them to "get by" with things.

This could also have factored into Drayton's thinking, as we have noticed a certain lack of effort at times from some players. 

So while Cooper and Garner may have the same approach as for they type of team they want to run, perhaps the perception is Cooper has more backbone than Garner... or something.

[JimR]

Ok, I don't know how true this is, but what I have heard about Cooper is actually that he is a no nonsense type.  One who has the same policy for everyone, ie no favorites or special treatment.

I think Garner had the perception (based on Drayton's comments) that he was to buddy-buddy with certain guys and allowed them to "get by" with things.

This could also have factored into Drayton's thinking, as we have noticed a certain lack of effort at times from some players. 

So while Cooper and Garner may have the same approach as for they type of team they want to run, perhaps the perception is Cooper has more backbone than Garner... or something.

how would anyone know this about Cooper?

[Dobro]

Understood, but you fire a manager in order to effect a change.  What change happens with Coop?  Berkman says "not much".

At this point you are just pissing and moaning for the sake of pissing and moaning.

Again, McLane most likely has a different opinion than Berkman.  How hard is that to understand?

[JimR]

At this point you are just pissing and moaning for the sake of pissing and moaning.

Again, McLane most likely has a different opinion than Berkman.  How hard is that to understand?

he's ignoring you. send a telegram.

[Dobro]

he's ignoring you. send a telegram.

Relay it to him in Morse Code when you're tapping on the floor of the bathroom stall.

[JimR]

Relay it to him in Morse Code when you're tapping on the floor of the bathroom stall.

i'm sure this is very clever. would you like for me to ask him to talk to you again? you seem angry at him about something.

[Astroholic]

i'm sure this is very clever. would you like for me to ask him to talk to you again? you seem angry at him about something.

Damnit Jim stop replying to that fools quotes, so that us that choose to ignore can do so.

[JGrave]

McLane said on the radio that the reason he let Garner go was because of the late season runs.  He's been disappointed the last two seasons with the club playing poorly for the first four months and then turning it on.  They weren't consistent and this is/was the manager's fault and didn't feel like they were led properly early in the season.

[JimR]

Damnit Jim stop replying to that fools quotes, so that us that choose to ignore can do so.

Dobro is no fool. he is pretty bitter, though. he played a couple of years of pro ball so he should not be, but he is.

[austro]

McLane said on the radio that the reason he let Garner go was because of the late season runs.  He's been disappointed the last two seasons with the club playing poorly for the first four months and then turning it on.  They weren't consistent and this is/was the manager's fault and didn't feel like they were led properly early in the season.

Well, this year he finally got the season-long consistency he was looking for. What's the problem?

[Astroholic]

Dobro is no fool. he is pretty bitter, though. he played a couple of years of pro ball so he should not be, but he is.

Okay, sorry for his misfortune but I would rather not read his bile.

[JimR]

Okay, sorry for his misfortune but I would rather not read his bile.

sorry i inflicted him on you.

[Noe]

McLane said on the radio that the reason he let Garner go was because of the late season runs.  He's been disappointed the last two seasons with the club playing poorly for the first four months and then turning it on.  They weren't consistent and this is/was the manager's fault and didn't feel like they were led properly early in the season.

Thanks, this makes sense.  Had he been sharing this with Phil?

[astrox]

So why did he fire Garner?

Maybe having fired Hickey and Galletti mid-season last year and not seeing the results he thought that should bring (a WS ring), caused McLane to kick it up a notch this time?  Maybe he figured that by doing it now will remove any albatross from next season's club?

Next year's Astros are going to look completely different (maybe even top to bottom staff changes such as no more Cheo or Mansolino), and maybe he felt that a "fresh start" is all that this team needs?

I don't really put too much stock that he made up his mind to do the deal while polling the fans.  I met him about 4 years ago after a loss, and he asked me why "we" lost that game.  I was dumbfounded, and I just said, "because they scored more runs than we did."

[Noe]

Okay, sorry for his misfortune but I would rather not read his bile.

Same here.  Just saying.

[JGrave]

Thanks, this makes sense.  Had he been sharing this with Phil?

He also said the series early on with Pirates bothered him as he felt they were important to see how the team started the season.  

[Noe]

He also said the series early on with Pirates bothered him as he felt they were important to see how the team started the season. 

Losing to the Pirates will do that to an owner.

[Astroholic]

He also said the series early on with Pirates bothered him as he felt they were important to see how the team started the season.  

Should'nt Purpura have been the one that was relaying this information to Phil?  It would be like the CEO coming to my office and letting me know that I am no longer needed because someone in accounting said I wrote bad SQL code.

[JimR]

Thanks, this makes sense.  Had he been sharing this with Phil?

actually, i don't think it does make sense. did the players have any role in that?

[MusicMan]

Should'nt Purpura have been the one that was relaying this information to Phil?  It would be like the CEO coming to my office and letting me know that I am no longer needed because someone in accounting said I wrote bad SQL code.

I wouldn't go to that extreme - he's skipping one rung in the ladder, that's no big deal.  After all, he was bosom buddies with Baggy and Bidge.

[Noe]

actually, i don't think it does make sense. did the players have any role in that?

No, I meant it made sense that McLane was upset, not that it was Phil's fault entirely.

[Astroholic]

I wouldn't go to that extreme - he's skipping one rung in the ladder, that's no big deal.  After all, he was bosom buddies with Baggy and Bidge.

Okay it was an extreme example...but oh nevermind.

[pravata]

actually, i don't think it does make sense. did the players have any role in that?

It makes as much sense as it ever does when a manager is fired.  If Mclane had just said this in the beginning without all that other crap he spilled at the press conference, I would just turn the page.  As it is, I'm questioning his sanity at this point.

[Ty in Tampa]

Losing to the Pirates will do that to an owner.

Kind of like brussels sprouts "bother" me.

[Noe]

Should'nt Purpura have been the one that was relaying this information to Phil? 

Sure, either way it's McLane relaying this dissatisfaction to Phil.  So if Phil doesn't do something about... ahum... what, I'm not entirely sure... then at least he knows that the owner is seething over there again because of the April record.  Of course, most of the time, in these marathon seasons, baseball folks know that April records don't mean much other than feed into that Memorial Day assessment date when you start to plan your changes.  It's not entirely rocket science to understand how organizations view and use early season play to make in-season adjustments and whatnot.

But that McLane was upset and needed tums every April/May is perhaps true.  I'm just asking now if his men knew that this was a burr in his saddle.  Anyone know?

[ybbodeus]

I was often worried that Garner was getting sick of what he witnessed most nights and might actually quit.  Absurd, I know, given his M.O., but something hasn't been right about this whole season, and it APPEARED, anyway, to be taking a toll on him (instinct only, no insight).

In seasons past we knew A STREAK lurked out there as a possibility, but THIS year it just didn't seem like it was even remotely possible.  We wanted it just to shut up all the detractors out there, but we also wanted it for the sake of some folks and their careers....I did, anyway.

When Purp said the equivalent of WE'RE RIGHT THERE a little more than week ago, it was almost like someone turned off the team's GIVE A $HIT emotion from that point on.  I recognize the unlikeliness of there being any relation between his statement and the team's quality of play...that it was most likely sheer coincidence and bad timing on Purp's part.  I'm just clutching for straws here, because it totally sucked to watch it unravel that badly and so quickly, not to mention its doing so against those two teams. 

Now watch Pittsburgh keep this charade up and get back in this thing....

[JimR]

It makes as much sense as it ever does when a manager is fired.  If Mclane had just said this in the beginning without all that other crap he spilled at the press conference, I would just turn the page.  As it is, I'm questioning his sanity at this point.

fire them if you choose. that is entirely your decision. just say, however: "i do not discuss personnel matters in public. i have explained my thinking in detail to the affected employees. i thank them for their long and good service to the Houston Astros, and i wish them well."

[Noe]

It makes as much sense as it ever does when a manager is fired.  If Mclane had just said this in the beginning without all that other crap he spilled at the press conference, I would just turn the page.  As it is, I'm questioning his sanity at this point.

Yup.  And the timing of booing at the MMPUS and jettisoning of Purpura and what McLane said about that firing kinda makes the whole Garner thing a bit of a confusion.  He certainly should fire his manager if one of his mandates is win in April/May damnit!  That is certainly a point he must make to the new guy(s) too I suppose.  I bet he will too.

And they'll look at each other and smile and then think out loud "Baseball seasons are a marathon... baseball season are a marathon...".  If my job as a manager depended on my April W/L record, I'd make sure some arms were exhausted by July to get me that early season good record and hope for the best the remainder of the season.

I call it the Jack McKeon '99 strategy.

[MusicMan]

fire them if you choose. that is entirely your decision. just say, however: "i do not discuss personnel matters in public. i have explained my thinking in detail to the affected employees. i thank them for their long and good service to the Houston Astros, and i wish them well."

Amen.

Even "Tim has said many time, 'this is a results-driven business', and I'm sure he understands that our results are not meeting our standards" would have worked.

[BudGirl]

I was often worried that Garner was getting sick of what he witnessed most nights and might actually quit.  Absurd, I know, given his M.O., but something hasn't been right about this whole season, and it APPEARED, anyway, to be taking a toll on him (instinct only, no insight).

Interesting.  Second person to have this opinion that I know.

[Noe]

Interesting.  Second person to have this opinion that I know.

Are you the first person or is Pinwheel?

[Froback]

how would anyone know this about Cooper?

The person who I heard it from (granted major grain of salt) based it on several interviews with him over the last like 10 years or so.  I think it also included his time as a AAA manager and such, not that, that means much.

But it was the only person I had heard who actually knew much other than the generic stuff on him.

[Noe]

The person who I heard it from (granted major grain of salt) based it on several interviews with him over the last like 10 years or so.  I think it also included his time as a AAA manager and such, not that, that means much.

But it was the only person I had heard who actually knew much other than the generic stuff on him.

So if we piece together the information:

1. Cooper is no-nonsense and will kick Berkman in the arse and even Biggio if necessary.
2. McLane is upset at the slow starts every year and blames the manager for that.

so... ergo...

McLane wants to see Cooper kick Berkman in the arse several times and for it to translate into wins on the field.  If he does this now, he'll certainly do that in April and Berkman will no longer have a slow start again.  Wow, this should be interesting.  Should he bench Biggio too?

[BudGirl]

Are you the first person or is Pinwheel?

Neither, it is someone that doesn't post on the boards.  I don't have an opinion on the managerial moves of the last couple days.

[Noe]

Neither, it is someone that doesn't post on the boards.  I don't have an opinion on the managerial moves of the last couple days.

I ask because Pinwheel said the same thing: Phil wanted to get out any way... in a way.  Basically, he's happy to get away from the circus with a winning record and a World Series appearance in his legacy.

I'm not sure if I buy it unless Scraps was tired of the bullshit and certainly wouldn't mind taking McLane's money for a year to sit at home and play with his grandchildren.  Passive aggressive I think they call it.

[Froback]

So if we piece together the information:

1. Cooper is no-nonsense and will kick Berkman in the arse and even Biggio if necessary.
2. McLane is upset at the slow starts every year and blames the manager for that.

so... ergo...

McLane wants to see Cooper kick Berkman in the arse several times and for it to translate into wins on the field.  If he does this now, he'll certainly do that in April and Berkman will no longer have a slow start again.  Wow, this should be interesting.  Should he bench Biggio too?

Hey I didn't say it would work, just giving a possible reason for it.  Which is what you initially asked.  Heck that might not even be THE reason, but it COULD be A reason.

[JimR]

Neither, it is someone that doesn't post on the boards.  I don't have an opinion on the managerial moves of the last couple days.

how can anyone have "no opinion?"

[Noe]

Hey I didn't say it would work, just giving a possible reason for it.  Which is what you initially asked.  Heck that might not even be THE reason, but it COULD be A reason.

I was just having fun.  Folks tell me via PMs that they think I'm not the same any more, which I don't really understand.  Sorry about that.

[BudGirl]

I ask because Pinwheel said the same thing: Phil wanted to get out any way... in a way.  Basically, he's happy to get away from the circus with a winning record and a World Series appearance in his legacy.

I'm not sure if I buy it unless Scraps was tired of the bullshit and certainly wouldn't mind taking McLane's money for a year to sit at home and play with his grandchildren.  Passive aggressive I think they call it.

I don't know about the Justice connection.  He usually forms very independent thoughts and rarely to they run with Justice's.

Personally, I could understand if he wanted to stay at home and play with the Grandkids.

[BudGirl]

how can anyone have "no opinion?"

Easy.  I'm not neither upset nor glad that they are gone.

[pravata]

So if we piece together the information:

1. Cooper is no-nonsense and will kick Berkman in the arse and even Biggio if necessary.
2. McLane is upset at the slow starts every year and blames the manager for that.

so... ergo...

McLane wants to see Cooper kick Berkman in the arse several times and for it to translate into wins on the field.  If he does this now, he'll certainly do that in April and Berkman will no longer have a slow start again.  Wow, this should be interesting.  Should he bench Biggio too?

Like when Garner had the meeting with Berkman, Lee, and a couple other vets and Berkman comes out and hits .327 and 7 homeruns in Aug?

[mihoba]

Easy.  I'm not neither upset nor glad that they are gone.

So your opinion is neutral.

[94CougarGrad]

Like when Garner had the meeting with Berkman, Lee, and a couple other vets and Berkman comes out and hits .327 and 7 homeruns in Aug?

"Lance, I'm sorry, but if you don't get your swing back, Drayton's gonna cut off your supply of sunflower seeds."

[ybbodeus]

I ask because Pinwheel said the same thing....

Oh, $hit, I didn't know that.  Now I'm unconsciously channeling THAT son of a bitch?   Then all hope IS lost.  Might as well start following the Weather Channel action.....or the Houston 1845 or whatever.

[Astroholic]

"Lance, I'm sorry, but if you don't get your swing back, Drayton's gonna cut off your supply of sunflower seeds."

"Ask him if he knows I went to Rice?"

[94CougarGrad]

"Ask him if he knows I went to Rice?"

"I did. He said, 'Rice ain't Baylor.'"

[Astroholic]

"I did. He said, 'Rice ain't Baylor.'"

"It Aint?"

[JimR]

"I did. He said, 'Rice ain't Baylor.'"

"thank God," says Lance.

[Astroholic]

"thank God," says Lance.

"don't worry Lance you job is secure" ----Drayton
"what were we talking about again" ----Lance

[94CougarGrad]

"mmf mmf thanfk God *spit*," says Lance.

FIFY

[BudGirl]

So your opinion is neutral.

If that makes you boys happy, then I'm neutral. 

Right now, I go to the games, cheer, laugh, eat peanuts and just have fun.  I'm not going to let myself get as worked up about the Astros as I did earlier in the season.  Ain't no man going to make me cry.

[ybbodeus]

"thank God," says Lance.

Easy for HIM to say; he already HAD a girlfriend.  The rest of his classmates had some preetty slim pickings, albeit more morally casual attitudes from which to choose.

[Astroholic]

Ain't no man going to make me cry.

Pfffffff! Can't tell by that image of Bradley.

[JGrave]

If that makes you boys happy, then I'm neutral. 

Right now, I go to the games, cheer, laugh, eat peanuts and just have fun.  I'm not going to let myself get as worked up about the Astros as I did earlier in the season.  Ain't no man going to make me cry.

Someone told me the other day to not eat the peanuts at the end of the year because they order in bulk at the beginning of the year so the peanuts you get at the end of the year are typically stale.  Any truth to this?

My apologies for derailing the thread if I am but it seems to have taken a turn anyway.

[94CougarGrad]

Pfffffff! Can't tell by that image of Bradley.

Wait'll he don't come back next year.

[Taras Bulba]

is he your uncle  or just a Baylor alum?

Not an uncle but wish he was.

FWIW, I didn't like seeing Garner get booted, but I also didn't like seeing Jimy get canned.  And, I very much liked Purpura and valued his loyal service to the organization.  But, I also think that good guys are oftentimes a fatality in any business--I've had the unfortunate role of firing them on many ocassions, and the Astros are no different.  McLane said some really unfortunate things and made some unfortunate comments regarding fan and media sentiment, but at the end of the day he has the right and obligation to further his organization via means he thinks neccessary.  And, typically a lot of those reasons are not known outside of the organization.  I'd rather wait and see a little and then maybe I'll then agree 100% with those calling McLane a Baylor inbred.  But right now I'd just like to see what Uncle Drayton does next.  It should be interesting.

Sic 'em.

[Astroholic]

Sic 'em.

That is all you had to say.

[BudGirl]

Pfffffff! Can't tell by that image of Bradley.

You want me to change it to the surfboard one?

Bradley has never made me cry. 

[Taras Bulba]

That is all you had to say.

Well, I could have also said I wasn't smart enough to go to Rice.  But, that should be obvious.

[BudGirl]

Wait'll he don't come back next year.

You don't think he'll come back next year????  Why would you think that? 

[Noe]

Like when Garner had the meeting with Berkman, Lee, and a couple other vets and Berkman comes out and hits .327 and 7 homeruns in Aug?

August is not April.  He needs to look Berkman in the eye in April with that menacing Scrap Iron look and make him quiver in fear.  Ironic that he's named Scrap Iron though if he wasn't doing that.  Old age, it mellows you.

[Astroholic]

Well, I could have also said I wasn't smart enough to go to Rice.  But, that should be obvious.

Neither is Lance.

[JimR]

Not an uncle but wish he was.

FWIW, I didn't like seeing Garner get booted, but I also didn't like seeing Jimy get canned.  And, I very much liked Purpura and valued his loyal service to the organization.  But, I also think that good guys are oftentimes a fatality in any business--I've had the unfortunate role of firing them on many ocassions, and the Astros are no different.  McLane said some really unfortunate things and made some unfortunate comments regarding fan and media sentiment, but at the end of the day he has the right and obligation to further his organization via means he thinks neccessary.  And, typically a lot of those reasons are not known outside of the organization.  I'd rather wait and see a little and then maybe I'll then agree 100% with those calling McLane a Baylor inbred.  But right now I'd just like to see what Uncle Drayton does next.  It should be interesting.

Sic 'em.

indeed. read your PM.

his comments after the firings were classless. if he wants to be a champion, he should act like one.

[Astroholic]

You don't think he'll come back next year?  Why would you think that?  Sniff! Sniffle!

FIFY

[BudGirl]

How did you know my allergies are acting up?

[Astroholic]

How did you know my allergies are acting up?

Did you sniffle during the Bagwell retirement?
Did you sniffle when Craig got 3000? (I know I did because my dumb ass passed up tickets for that night)

If not cool.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

indeed. read your PM.

his comments after the firings were classless. if he wants to be a champion, he should act like one.

Jim, you are obviously overlooking the new-age perspective that all things are "relative".  You should try it.  You'd be amazed how easily it can be misused and or abused. 

[BudGirl]

Did you sniffle during the Bagwell retirement?
Did you sniffle when Craig got 3000? (I know I did because my dumb ass passed up tickets for that night)

If not cool.

I guess I should have stated, "Ain't no man going to make me cry anymore."

[Astroholic]

I guess I should have stated, "Ain't no man going to make me cry anymore."

We'll see.

[Nate in IA]

Interesting.  Second person to have this opinion that I know.

Count me in this group as well.  He just seemed to get tired as the season wore on.  Maybe 'exasperated' is a better word to use.

[Noe]

"There are only two kinda managers in this league... thems that is fired and thems that is gonna git fired!" - Jeff "Bum" Kent