Author Topic: Lee & Berkman (Read 5429 times)

ValpoCory · « **on:** August 24, 2007, 09:51:41 am »

Looking at their careers, their power numbers are similar. In fact, on the baseball-reference Lance Berkman page, the most similar players to Lance are:

David Ortiz (907)
Kevin Mitchell (893)
Albert Pujols (887)
Carlos Lee (884)

So far, Lance is a career .301 with 249 HR and 834 RBI. Berkman is signed for 3 + option = 4 more years after 2007.
Carlos Lee is a career .288 with 247 HR and 884 RBI. He is signed for 5 more years after 2007.

Both are 31 years old.

If Berkman and Lee both average 30 home runs over the next 4 seasons, they'll be around 370 career. I would venture to guess that neither will hit 500 home runs in their career, and both will fall short of the Hall of Fame.

It shows you, that in addition to everything else he did, just how good a home run hitter Jeff Bagwell was, for after the first 13 years of their careers, Berkman and Lee would both be well short of Bagwell's home run total. Assuming the 30 home run pace of course.

Rammer33 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:38:49 am »

it does show how good Bagwell was ... however I don't think Lee and Berkman are as similar as that list indicates ... Lee's numbers come from close to a thousand more at bats ... Berkmans got more power and is a better all around hitter - barring this season Berkman keeps company with Pujols, Manny, Cabrera, etc ... while I think Lee has consistently been a notch below in the second tier of very good bats ...

Trey · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:39:25 am »

Berkman Career to Date - 4125 AB - 249 HR - 16.6 AB/HR
Lee Career to Date - 5065 AB - 247 HR - 20.5 AB/HR
Bagwell Career through 1999 - 4639 AB - 263 HR - 17.6 AB/HR
**(this was the last year in the Dome and the point which is closest to both Carlos and Lance)
Bagwell Career - 7797 AB - 449 HR - 17.4 AB/HR

edited to make it easier to read and because I can't spell

chuck · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:27:56 am »

Quote from: Rammer33 on August 24, 2007, 10:38:49 am

it does show how good Bagwell was ... however I don't think Lee and Berkman are as similar as that list indicates ... Lee's numbers come from close to a thousand more at bats ... Berkmans got more power and is a better all around hitter - barring this season Berkman keeps company with Pujols, Manny, Cabrera, etc ... while I think Lee has consistantly been a notch below in the second teir of very good bats ...

I realize that one of the two players I'm comparing is having his worst ever season, but I am not at all sure I can say that Berkman is a better all-around hitter. I see Carlos get lots of hits (singles, mostly) by hitting a two-strike pitch that was delivered as the pitcher intended. He is very good at beating a pitcher with the pitcher's best pitch. He also has a better eye for the zone than Berkman does, I think, and is more patient.

JimR · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2007, 01:14:07 pm »

Quote from: chuck on August 24, 2007, 11:27:56 am

I realize that one of the two players I'm comparing is having his worst ever season, but I am not at all sure I can say that Berkman is a better all-around hitter. I see Carlos get lots of hits (singles, mostly) by hitting a two-strike pitch that was delivered as the pitcher intended. He is very good at beating a pitcher with the pitcher's best pitch. He also has a better eye for the zone than Berkman does, I think, and is more patient.

Berkman is not even close to as good a hitter as Lee is.

Limey · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2007, 03:41:55 pm »

Quote from: JimR on August 24, 2007, 01:14:07 pm

Berkman is not even close to as good a hitter as Lee is.

...and Lee is much more relaxed and lackadaisical about it too. Which is saying something!

Rammer33 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2007, 04:25:57 pm »

Quote from: JimR on August 24, 2007, 01:14:07 pm

Berkman is not even close to as good a hitter as Lee is.

This year I think Lee's been better. Over their careers I couldn't disagree more.

ybbodeus · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2007, 11:32:22 am »

Just ONCE I wish I could witness Lance's making the opposing manager pay for turning him around with a game on the line. I know h'es done it; I'm just saying I wish I could be watching when he does.

Worst part about last night is the loss, no doubt. The second worst part is the residual effect it will have on all the "experts" here in town who will write, shout or wax illogical about how it's time for Lidge to go...that second part has legs.

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #8 on:** August 25, 2007, 11:45:34 am »

Quote from: ybbodeus on August 25, 2007, 11:32:22 am

Worst part about last night is the loss, no doubt. The second worst part is the residual effect it will have on all the "experts" here in town who will write, shout or wax illogical about how it's time for Lidge to go...that second part has legs.

Hell, other than blowing one out of three save opportunities, Lidge is doing just fine. I'm not being sarcastic. Lidge isn't pitching bad. It's just uncanny how many of the save opportunities are done in by a HR. Nady seems to feast on Astros pitching too.

otterjb · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2007, 12:36:55 pm »

Quote from: JimR on August 24, 2007, 01:14:07 pm

Berkman is not even close to as good a hitter as Lee is.

Not even close? Why do you say that? Berkman's a career .300 hitter, Lee's at .288.

juliogotay · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2007, 01:16:24 pm »

Quote from: JimR on August 24, 2007, 01:14:07 pm

Berkman is not even close to as good a hitter as Lee is.

Bullshit.

stubbyc · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2007, 05:15:20 pm »

Mind boggling stupidity once again showcased by the one and only Jim R. It's truly amazing that there are people who consider this guy an expert. I wish the ignore feature prevented me from having to read Jim's filth through quotes. Lee a much better hitter than Berkman? Really? Really? Berkman only hits for more average, draws more walks, and hits for more power. Jim must have just recently started following the Astros.

ybbodeus · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2007, 05:47:00 pm »

Quote from: Sphinx Drummond on August 25, 2007, 11:45:34 am

Hell, other than blowing one out of three save opportunities, Lidge is doing just fine. I'm not being sarcastic. Lidge isn't pitching bad. It's just uncanny how many of the save opportunities are done in by a HR. Nady seems to feast on Astros pitching too.

Nady reminded me of Javier Lopez last night, the way he went down and got that slider. Javy would friggin' SIT on sliders. I don't think Brad's been beaten with a "mistake", at least not on the level that the Pujols pitch was. It's better he's doing this when the TEAM blows versus doing this when it's trying to protect first place or the wild card. I know.....some consolation; a loss is a loss. So much for thinking that opening day homer was a fluke, huh?

strosrays · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2007, 06:06:10 pm »

Quote from: stubbyc on August 25, 2007, 05:15:20 pm

Mind boggling stupidity once again showcased by the one and only Jim R. It's truly amazing that there are people who consider this guy an expert. I wish the ignore feature prevented me from having to read Jim's filth through quotes. Lee a much better hitter than Berkman? Really? Really? Berkman only hits for more average, draws more walks, and hits for more power. Jim must have just recently started following the Astros.

Your whole life revolves around JimR's posts in this forum now, yes? Sort of like Pluto revolves around the sun.

Not Plato. Pluto. You know, the dog.

VirtualBob · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2007, 06:10:04 pm »

Quote from: stubbyc on August 25, 2007, 05:15:20 pm

Mind boggling stupidity once again showcased by the one and only Jim R. It's truly amazing that there are people who consider this guy an expert. I wish the ignore feature prevented me from having to read Jim's filth through quotes. Lee a much better hitter than Berkman? Really? Really? Berkman only hits for more average, draws more walks, and hits for more power. Jim must have just recently started following the Astros.

Just to be sure, I looked up "ignore" in my OED (thanks to another thread for that excellent resource), and sure enough ... there was no mention of any alternate meaning anywhere that involved commenting on the thing/person being ignored. It turns out that "ignor" doesn't require much of anything in the way of action and nothing in the way of technical support. It's pretty passive. Maybe you could try that version of ignorance? We're tired of the version you display here regularly.

Billy Zabka · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2007, 06:12:52 pm »

Forget about hitting -

Who do you think would be formidable when attacking a buffet?

I'd go with Lee, because growing up in Panama, playing in Chicago and Milwaukee and owning a ranch in Boling (no doubt the most baffling stat in all of professional sports), I think he has a much more varied repetoire.

otterjb · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2007, 06:32:52 pm »

Quote from: Billy Zabka on August 25, 2007, 06:12:52 pm

Forget about hitting -

Who do you think would be formidable when attacking a buffet?

Ohh, good question. I can see it now:

Flapjack vs. The Vending Machine, PPV at the Astrodome with Kobayahsi MC'ing, right after Sumo wresting and before the Monster Truck Rally. Lee rides in on a Shetland pony while Berkman runs laps around the ring throwing packs of sunflower seeds and Big League Chew into the crowd.

austro · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2007, 07:05:58 pm »

Quote from: otterjb on August 25, 2007, 06:32:52 pm

Ohh, good question. I can see it now:

Flapjack vs. The Vending Machine, PPV at the Astrodome with Kobayahsi MC'ing, right after Sumo wresting and before the Monster Truck Rally. Lee rides in on a Shetland pony while Berkman runs laps around the ring throwing packs of sunflower seeds and Big League Chew into the crowd.

And the Chairman takes a big bite out of a pepper.

pravata · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2007, 07:47:11 pm »

Quote from: austro on August 25, 2007, 07:05:58 pm

And the Chairman takes a big bite out of a pepper.

Allez cuisine!

StargateSG1 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2007, 08:25:58 pm »

Quote from: JimR on August 24, 2007, 01:14:07 pm

Berkman is not even close to as good a hitter as Lee is.

Breaking the TZ axiom of reading more and posting less.....I'd like to know what FACTS bring you to that conclusion.

stubbyc · « **Reply #20 on:** August 26, 2007, 02:55:44 am »

Quote from: VirtualBob on August 25, 2007, 06:10:04 pm

Maybe you could try that version of ignorance? We're tired of the version you display here regularly.

I think you should speak for yourself.

stubbyc · « **Reply #21 on:** August 26, 2007, 02:56:44 am »

Quote from: StargateSG1 on August 25, 2007, 08:25:58 pm

Breaking the TZ axiom of reading more and posting less.....I'd like to know what FACTS bring you to that conclusion.

He brings nothing. Ignore him. He'll reply to you with something like "WFW" or "fuck off" or "no one asked you" like he does in 95% of his other posts.

stubbyc · « **Reply #22 on:** August 26, 2007, 02:59:55 am »

Quote from: strosrays on August 25, 2007, 06:06:10 pm

Your whole life revolves around JimR's posts in this forum now, yes? Sort of like Pluto revolves around the sun.

Not Plato. Pluto. You know, the dog.

I reply to easily disputable shitty arguments. Turns out Jim has a high percentage of those even if his non-quoted comments are hidden.

Did you actually read what Jim R just said?

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #23 on:** August 26, 2007, 06:33:06 am »

Jeez, stubby. Obsessed much?

MRaup · « **Reply #24 on:** August 26, 2007, 09:09:19 am »

Quote from: stubbyc on August 26, 2007, 02:59:55 am

I reply to easily disputable shitty arguments. Turns out Jim has a high percentage of those even if his non-quoted comments are hidden.

Did you actually read what Jim R just said?

The anklebiter strikes again.

Lefty · « **Reply #25 on:** August 26, 2007, 09:32:04 am »

Quote from: stubbyc on August 26, 2007, 02:59:55 am

Did you actually read what Jim R just said?

Yes, and not to speak for anyone, but I'm pretty sure you're misunderstanding it.

Lee is the best pure hitter the Astros have had since Alou. Kent's in the conversation.

Spack McGrimm · « **Reply #26 on:** August 26, 2007, 10:05:24 am »

You cannot ignore me and anklebitting is a serious offense. Take a two week vacation.

Author Topic: Lee & Berkman (Read 5429 times)

strosrays

pravata