Author Topic: The Hall (Read 3769 times)

Bench · « **on:** July 29, 2007, 06:38:46 pm »

Congratulations to Cal and Tony, two of my all time favorites. In a time where the dilution of the Hall is a constant topic of conversation, these two embody the greatness of the game for which it was designed.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #1 on:** July 29, 2007, 06:50:25 pm »

Interestingly, I've been reading at another board how Ripken ins't worthy and shouldn't be there. He just doesn't have the numbers, and the HOF should be reserved for the really no-brainers who deserve it, like Ted Simmons. Mindboggling.

dirty steve · « **Reply #2 on:** July 29, 2007, 08:15:56 pm »

i hate these holier than thou wirters and media members use that "he never was great" argument to hold against players who they claim were just "really good," like Biggio.

MusicMan · « **Reply #3 on:** July 29, 2007, 08:42:23 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on July 29, 2007, 06:50:25 pm

Interestingly, I've been reading at another board how Ripken ins't worthy and shouldn't be there. He just doesn't have the numbers, and the HOF should be reserved for the really no-brainers who deserve it, like Ted Simmons. Mindboggling.

Even AD.com would find this asinine. CardsTalk?

homer · « **Reply #4 on:** July 29, 2007, 10:56:42 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on July 29, 2007, 08:42:23 pm

Even AD.com would find this asinine. CardsTalk?

One dickface over on BotB.

Houston · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2007, 07:41:19 am »

Did you hear Gwynn in his speech mention going into his year's draft, he thought Houston was going to pick him? I hadn't heard that story before.

ValpoCory · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2007, 08:28:01 am »

ESPN Radio last night said "Ripken and Gwynn played their entire careers with one team ... they were the last of a dying breed."

Change the station.

Froback · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:18:43 am »

Quote from: ValpoCory on July 30, 2007, 08:28:01 am

ESPN Radio last night said "Ripken and Gwynn played their entire careers with one team ... they were the last of a dying breed."

Change the station.

Bagwell
Biggio
Smoltz
Jeter

And those were the ones that instantly sprang to mind. And let's not forget that before FA you didn't have a choice to stay with 1 team your whole career. There is a reason why it is not as common as say the 50s...

Limey · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:21:03 am »

Quote from: Froback on July 30, 2007, 09:18:43 am

Bagwell
Biggio
Smoltz
Jeter

And those were the ones that instantly sprang to mind. And let's not forget that before FA you didn't have a choice to stay with 1 team your whole career. There is a reason why it is not as common as say the 50s...

~~Morgan Ensberg~~

Noe · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:21:09 am »

Quote from: Froback on July 30, 2007, 09:18:43 am

Bagwell
Biggio
Smoltz
Jeter

And those were the ones that instantly sprang to mind. And let's not forget that before FA you didn't have a choice to stay with 1 team your whole career. There is a reason why it is not as common as say the 50s...

Barry Larkin too.

MusicMan · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:21:58 am »

Barring a major surprise, Albert Pujols.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:06:23 pm »

Quote from: Froback on July 30, 2007, 09:18:43 am

Bagwell
Biggio
Smoltz
Jeter

And those were the ones that instantly sprang to mind. And let's not forget that before FA you didn't have a choice to stay with 1 team your whole career. There is a reason why it is not as common as say the 50s...

I bet the sages at ESPN, asked off the top of their head, couldn't name 10 Hall of Famers who began their careers before 1960 and stayed with the same team their entire careers. It may be less common now, but it wasn't the rule back then either.

Of the first five Hall of Famers, Walter Johnson was the only one to do it. Wagner, Cobb, Ruth and Mathewson all played for more than one team. (Wagner had little choice, since his original team folded.)

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:10:30 pm »

Quote from: Noe in Austin on July 30, 2007, 09:21:09 am

Barry Larkin too.

Moreover, just in the last 10 years of inductees, before Gwynn and Ripken, there were Sandberg, Ozzie, Puckett, Brett and Yount. It's not like they didn't play all or most of their careers in the age of free agency.

WulawHorn · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:33:03 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on July 30, 2007, 01:10:30 pm

Moreover, just in the last 10 years of inductees, before Gwynn and Ripken, there were Sandberg, Ozzie, Puckett, Brett and Yount. It's not like they didn't play all or most of their careers in the age of free agency.

I think it might actually help a little bit in the voting. You are identified as Mr. Astro, or Mr. Brewer or Mr. Padre etc., and people get to throw around words like loyalty and character etc as opposed to being veiwed as a mercenary.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:44:53 pm »

Quote from: WulawHorn on July 30, 2007, 01:33:03 pm

I think it might actually help a little bit in the voting. You are identified as Mr. Astro, or Mr. Brewer or Mr. Padre etc., and people get to throw around words like loyalty and character etc as opposed to being veiwed as a mercenary.

I think that's right.

But more than anything, I think "nobody plays with one team anymore" is simply one of those classic canards, like "expansion dilutes talent," "players don't play as long anymore because of the big money" and "players are brought up younger and with less experience now."

No empirical support is brought to bear on the truthfulness of the statement, and even if it were, baseball pundits would continue to peddle the same lines regardless of the evidence. Of course, every one of these canards harkens back to the golden years of yore, when things were so much better.

WulawHorn · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:46:47 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on July 30, 2007, 01:44:53 pm

I think that's right.

But more than anything, I think "nobody plays with one team anymore" is simply one of those classic canards, like "expansion dilutes talent," "players don't play as long anymore because of the big money" and "players are brought up younger and with less experience now."

No empirical support is brought to bear on the truthfulness of the statement, and even if it were, baseball pundits would continue to peddle the same lines regardless of the evidence. Of course, every one of these canards harkens back to the golden years of yore, when things were so much better.

Agreed completely. Players have always moved around- it just used to be the teams that were the only real drivers of it.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:53:43 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on July 30, 2007, 01:10:30 pm

Moreover, just in the last 10 years of inductees, before Gwynn and Ripken, there were Sandberg, Ozzie, Puckett, Brett and Yount. It's not like they didn't play all or most of their careers in the age of free agency.

Sandberg and Ozzie did not play their entire careers with one team.

JimR · « **Reply #17 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:59:47 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on July 30, 2007, 01:44:53 pm

I think that's right.

But more than anything, I think "nobody plays with one team anymore" is simply one of those classic canards, like "expansion dilutes talent," "players don't play as long anymore because of the big money" and "players are brought up younger and with less experience now."

No empirical support is brought to bear on the truthfulness of the statement, and even if it were, baseball pundits would continue to peddle the same lines regardless of the evidence. Of course, every one of these canards harkens back to the golden years of yore, when things were so much better.

as opposed to now when all you Young Geniuses know how things really are.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #18 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:00:30 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on July 30, 2007, 01:53:43 pm

Sandberg and Ozzie did not play their entire careers with one team.

Yes, I'm an idiot. The Phillies and Padres years blanked from my mind.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #19 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:01:58 pm »

Quote from: JimR on July 30, 2007, 01:59:47 pm

as opposed to now when all you Young Geniuses know how things really are.

Never claimed to be. And that wasn't directed at you, in case that's why you're taking issue with it. I was talking about the average sportswriter or ESPN talking head or talk radio host. I don't suppose you agree with them and their generalizations much of the time.

JimR · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:09:10 pm »

Quote from: Arky Vaughan on July 30, 2007, 02:01:58 pm

Never claimed to be. And that wasn't directed at you, in case that's why you're taking issue with it. I was talking about the average sportswriter or ESPN talking head or talk radio host. I don't suppose you agree with them and their generalizations much of the time.

please. i'm not so arrogant as to think you are talking about me. i was talking about the attitude you expressed.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #21 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:14:08 pm »

Quote from: JimR on July 30, 2007, 02:09:10 pm

please. i'm not so arrogant as to think you are talking about me. i was talking about the attitude you expressed.

Sportswriters, radio hosts and ESPN talking heads get pilloried every day here for the things they write that are supposedly beneath the intellectual wizardry of these forums. Do you have a problem with that?

How about this canard: Lidge went mental because of Pujols. Does it take a genius to debunk that?