Author Topic: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07  (Read 13170 times)

ValpoCory

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Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« on: July 13, 2007, 01:07:37 pm »
Houston
C. Biggio 2b     .259    
H. Pence cf    .342    
L. Berkman 1b    .263    
C. Lee lf    .297    
M. Loretta ss    .317    
M. Lamb 3b    .295    
L. Scott rf    .226    
E. Munson c    .250    
J. Jennings p    .091    
 
 Chi Cubs
     
A. Soriano lf    .309    
R. Theriot ss    .276    
D. Lee 1b    .330    
A. Ramirez 3b    .312    
C. Floyd rf    .292    
M. DeRosa 2b    .291    
J. Jones cf    .233    
G. Soto c    .000    
C. Zambrano p    .238    


Looking for another Biggio HBP this series.  3 more HBP and 5 more doubles and Bidge will have his last two significant milestones reached.

Did Craig have to make it that obvious that he pretty much chooses to get hit?  Once he got 3,000 out of the way, then the HBP started coming the next day.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 01:12:32 pm by ValpoCory »

Phil_in_CS

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 01:14:57 pm »
finally, some baseball again


Amy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 01:19:20 pm »
Yippee, baseball!!!

I'm pretty sure the guy singing the national anthem sang "...and the home of the brieeeeeeeeem" or maybe it was "dream".

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 01:22:12 pm »
Somebody please remind me the rules of this game?
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

kevinG

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2007, 01:22:27 pm »
At the moment, this might be my favorite lineup that Gar can trot out there.
When the government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of the taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. -Dave Barry

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2007, 01:24:26 pm »
Wrigley now has the pFX data in Gameday.  Great to see the strikes that are called balls.  Umps must detest this stuff
I wish the first word I had said when I was born was 'quote'. Then before I die, I could say, 'unquote.' --Steven Wright

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2007, 01:24:42 pm »
At the moment, this might be my favorite lineup that Gar can trot out there.

"Not a fan of catching the ball, are you, Trabek?"
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Phil_in_CS

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2007, 01:25:48 pm »
what percent of the games will Munson catch in the 2nd half? Brad is still the man, his knees won't last forever. Play Brad less so he can stay another year or two?

kevinG

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2007, 01:26:35 pm »
Quote
"Not a fan of catching the ball, are you, Trabek?"

Should have qualified-- Offensively.
When the government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of the taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. -Dave Barry

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2007, 01:27:31 pm »
Wrigley now has the pFX data in Gameday.  Great to see the strikes that are called balls.  Umps must detest this stuff

pFX = ?
Goin' for a bus ride.

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2007, 01:28:51 pm »
Top 1:

Biggio flies out
Pence K swinging
Berkman walks
Lee K swinging
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

remy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2007, 01:30:52 pm »
I'm so incredibly sick of watching this team get owned by that tool Zambrano.  I really hope they can figure him out today.

MikeyBoy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2007, 01:31:53 pm »
What the fuck is up with a Friday day game? Do these drunk pieces of shit not work in Chicago? I was pumped about watching baseball tonight. Shit.
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Phil_in_CS

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2007, 01:34:49 pm »
What the fuck is up with a Friday day game? Do these drunk pieces of shit not work in Chicago? I was pumped about watching baseball tonight. Shit.

I had a night off last night, and what was on? lacross? softball?

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2007, 01:36:53 pm »
Bottom 1:

Soriano K
Theriot singled sharply
Lee flied to left
Errormiss flied to left
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Amy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2007, 01:37:28 pm »
What the fuck is up with a Friday day game? Do these drunk pieces of shit not work in Chicago? I was pumped about watching baseball tonight. Shit.

I wonder what the season ticket holders do.  There has to be a hefty percentage of games they can't go to because of work.  So unless they have a lot of independantly wealthy season ticket holders that don't have to work, those tickets must change hands a lot.

Lurch

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2007, 01:40:52 pm »
pFX = ?

They could be totally pulling this out of their asses, but it looks really damn cool.



Q: What is the PFX value?
A: The "Pitch-f/x" value is currently defined as the measurement of the distance between the location of the actual pitch thrown over the plate, and the calculated location of a ball thrown by the pitcher in the same way, with no spin; this is the value we provided in Enhanced Gameday last season as "Break". The new Break value, which we feel is more appropriate for the common understanding of the term, is defined as the measurement of the greatest distance between the trajectory of the pitch at any point between the release point and the front of home plate, and the straight line path from the release point and the front of home plate. By this definition, a Barry Zito curveball will have a much greater Break value than a Brad Penny fastball.

ETA: I should clarify, pFX isn't necessarily the cool part... its the detail of release point ball movement and supposed accuracy of where the ball ended up and the potential to track this data historically that seems promising.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 01:43:41 pm by Lurch »
I wish the first word I had said when I was born was 'quote'. Then before I die, I could say, 'unquote.' --Steven Wright

remy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2007, 01:42:39 pm »
I had a night off last night, and what was on? lacross? softball?

World Series of Pop Culture

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2007, 01:42:47 pm »
I really hate Zambrano.  Jennings should plunk him.  At least that way he wouldn't hit a HR against us.

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2007, 01:45:36 pm »
Top 2, 0-0:

Loretta lined to CF
Lamb K looking
Scott K swinging
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Limey

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2007, 01:49:39 pm »
I really hate Zambrano.  Jennings should plunk him.  At least that way he wouldn't hit a HR against us.

Every point different between his OBP and his SLG has come courtesy of Astros pitching.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2007, 01:50:30 pm »
Wind blowing in?  Lots of fly outs for JJ so far.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2007, 01:52:17 pm »
Bottom 2, 0-0:

Floyd grounded 3u
DeRosa flies to RF (winds are blowing in at 12 mph)
Jones reaches on an infield single to Loretta in the hole
Soto K looking
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Limey

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2007, 01:53:17 pm »
(winds are blowing in at 12 mph)

Gracias.  Good day for Jennings to pitch.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2007, 01:53:48 pm »
Would be better for Woody to pitch today.  At least JJ has a chance of getting ground balls.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Limey

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2007, 01:54:35 pm »
Would be better for Woody to pitch today.  At least JJ has a chance of getting ground balls.

Woody doesn't get to pitch this weekend.
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Amy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2007, 01:58:28 pm »
When are we going to see the expected prowess with the bat from Jennings?

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2007, 01:58:32 pm »
Bottom 3:

Munson grounds 1u on a 3-2 pitch
Jennings K swinging (#5 on the day)
Biggio sends a bullet at ErrorMiss, but this sound strategy fails, 5-3.

Through 3 innings, Zambrano is tossing a no-no.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

mihoba

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2007, 02:01:30 pm »
I really hate Zambrano.  Jennings should plunk him.  At least that way he wouldn't hit a HR against us.

Good thing he didn't take your "advice"

I much prefer a K
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2007, 02:05:46 pm »
When are we going to see the expected prowess with the bat from Jennings?

1997

Amy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2007, 02:08:47 pm »
1997

Funny.  Seriously though, he's been really bad at the plate.  I know it's a very minor concern (not even one, really) for pitcher.  I'm just surprised.  He has as many hits as Moehler and one less than Albers.

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2007, 02:11:31 pm »
Bottom 3, 0-0:

Zambrano K swinging
Soriano K swinging
Theriot singles to RF on 3-2 pitch
Theriot steals 2b on the first pitch, good throw by Munson but not in time
Lee walks on 3-2, nearly hit by the pitch
ErrorMiss flies to Pence, inning over.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

remy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2007, 02:11:58 pm »
Funny.  Seriously though, he's been really bad at the plate.  I know it's a very minor concern (not even one, really) for pitcher.  I'm just surprised.  He has as many hits as Moehler and one less than Albers.

His offensive is overhyped.  He hasn't hit over .240 since 2002.  The last few seasons he's gotten worse and worse.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4840&context=batting

mihoba

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2007, 02:14:41 pm »
Funny.  Seriously though, he's been really bad at the plate.  I know it's a very minor concern (not even one, really) for pitcher.  I'm just surprised.  He has as many hits as Moehler and one less than Albers.

He's had all of 15 plate appearances, including today. One hit and three walks. Did you see him turn on the Zambrano FB and hit it just foul?

Small. Sample.
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MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2007, 02:17:08 pm »
Top 4, 0-0:

PENCE!!! lines one past a diving Lee for the single.  I take pride in my "no-no mojo".
Berkman lines to 2b, the throw doubles off Hunter.  I claim no "double-play mojo".  Bad baserunning by Pence.
Lee bounces 6-3 on a 3-2 pitch.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

remy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2007, 02:17:24 pm »
Small. Sample.

15 for 112 since 2005 (.134).  Slightly larger. Sample.

mihoba

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2007, 02:19:00 pm »
15 for 112 since 2005 (.134).  Slightly larger. Sample.

He still has a solid swing. Hits will come if he can stay healthy.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2007, 02:26:10 pm »
what the fuck was that


eta:  two errors- underthrow Clank, way overthrow Berkman.
2-0 Cubs

mihoba

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2007, 02:26:41 pm »
what the fuck was that

A pair of costly errors.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2007, 02:26:54 pm »
Holy shit.  That was like JV girls softball shit right there.

Amy

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2007, 02:27:05 pm »
Christ Lance, what the fuck are you doing??

Lamb's throw to first is wild.  Berkman retrieves it, runner heads back to third, then Berkman launches the ball into the stands behind third base.

ValpoCory

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2007, 02:27:11 pm »
2-0 Cubbies, Bottom 4th.  Runner on 3rd, 1 out for the Cubs.  Zambrano up.

Edit: CBS Sportsline is fucked up right now.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 02:28:57 pm by ValpoCory »

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2007, 02:27:14 pm »
what the fuck was that

Your 2007 Astros.  Defensive marvels.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2007, 02:27:43 pm »
Bottom 4:

Floyd reaches on a single to CF.
DeRosa singles to LF.  Lee falls asleep, does not notice Floyd going to third.  The "defense" on this team disgusts me.
Jones flies to LF.  Floyd tags and scores, DeRosa tags and takes second ahead of the throw. 

Soto grounds to Lamb.  Lamb with the bad throw to Berkman, Soto safe at first.  Berkman tried to throw behind DeRosa at 3b, for reason known only to him and his pastor, and air mails it to the seats.  Soto to 3b, DeRosa home.  2-0 Cubs.

This is not Astros baseball, and I'm done with PBP in protest.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

MusicMan

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2007, 02:29:33 pm »
Do-Ray are right... a major league defense would have held them scoreless in this inning.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2007, 02:29:56 pm »
Bottom 4:

Floyd reaches on a single to CF.
DeRosa singles to LF.  Lee falls asleep, does not notice Floyd going to third.  The "defense" on this team disgusts me.
Jones flies to LF.  Floyd tags and scores, DeRosa tags and takes second ahead of the throw. 

Soto grounds to Lamb.  Lamb with the bad throw to Berkman, Soto safe at first.  Berkman tried to throw behind DeRosa at 3b, for reason known only to him and his pastor, and air mails it to the seats.  Soto to 3b, DeRosa home.  2-0 Cubs.

This is not Astros baseball, and I'm done with PBP in protest.

Disagree completely- this is astros baseball- circa 2007.  It will take a miracle of biblical proportions to win this game.

My freaking birthday and it's a lousy freaking day game with the good guys going against Zambrano- yeah me. What a waste.


mihoba

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2007, 02:31:43 pm »
Disagree completely- this is astros baseball- circa 2007.  It will take a miracle of biblical proportions to win this game.

My freaking birthday and it's a lousy freaking day game with the good guys going against Zambrano- yeah me. What a waste.



Happy Birthday, and quit whining. It's only 3-0 in the 4th inning.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2007, 02:32:21 pm »

This is not Astros baseball, and I'm done with PBP in protest.

Please continue.
''I just did an interview with someone I like more than you. I used a lot of big words on him. I don't have anything left for you.'' --Brad Ausmus

Well behaved women rarely make history.

ValpoCory

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2007, 02:32:29 pm »
Disagree completely- this is astros baseball- circa 2007.  It will take a miracle of biblical proportions to win this game.

My freaking birthday and it's a lousy freaking day game with the good guys going against Zambrano- yeah me. What a waste.



As soon as you saw Zambrano, you should have cut your losses and done something better with your Friday.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2007, 02:33:22 pm »
At least Pence made sure that Zambrano won't be taking another no-no deep into the game against us.

ValpoCory

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2007, 02:33:56 pm »
Should have qualified-- Offensively.

I wonder when the last time a team had more errors than hits in a game.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2007, 02:33:58 pm »
Please continue.

Soriano K swinging.
Theriot flies out to end the inning.

3 runs, 3 hits, 2 errors.  End 4, 3-0 Cubs.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2007, 02:34:06 pm »
Holy shit.  That was like JV girls softball shit right there.

Any elaboration on that?  I'm watching via Yahoo!
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2007, 02:34:42 pm »
Soriano K swinging.
Theriot flies out to end the inning.

3 runs, 3 hits, 2 errors.  End 4, 3-0 Cubs.

Thank you.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2007, 02:35:07 pm »
Any elaboration on that?  I'm watching via Yahoo!

Your new fangled phone doesn't have the game?  Throw that crap away.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2007, 02:35:33 pm »
At least Pence made sure that Zambrano won't be taking another no-no deep into the game against us.

See: victory, moral.

I can't even begin to describe my disgust at that inning.  Lamb's propensity for bad throws is well knwn, it's a physical flaw that will manifest from time to time.  The error charged to Berkman, and the two free bases that Lee gave up, are completely mental, and completely inexcusable from the two men who, theoretically, should be this team's leaders.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2007, 02:35:41 pm »
Any elaboration on that?  I'm watching via Yahoo!

Scroll up.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2007, 02:37:15 pm »
See: victory, moral.

I can't even begin to describe my disgust at that inning.  Lamb's propensity for bad throws is well knwn, it's a physical flaw that will manifest from time to time.  The error charged to Berkman, and the two free bases that Lee gave up, are completely mental, and completely inexcusable from the two men who, theoretically, should be this team's leaders.

this team's leader has a broken leg.  I don't think any other player stepped up while he's been recovering.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2007, 02:37:42 pm »
Your new fangled phone doesn't have the game?  Throw that crap away.

I hadn't thought about MLB TV on my iPhone, but if it's Flash it won't work...yet.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2007, 02:38:54 pm »
Top 5, 3-0 Cubs:

Loretta lines softly.
Lamb flies to Soriano, who cut in front of Jones.  Jones is clearly put out by Soriano's near-cluster.
Scott bounces to Zambrano, making the barehand play, 1-3.

Astros head back to the field with their hands on their ankles, 3-0.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #60 on: July 13, 2007, 02:39:35 pm »
I have come to the conclusion that the level of joy brought on by watching the 2007 Astros is somewhat akin to this.

warning per musicman:  virgin eyes do not click.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 02:43:23 pm by remy »

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2007, 02:40:07 pm »
this team's leader has a broken leg.  I don't think any other player stepped up while he's been recovering.

They were pulling this shit before AE went down.  Lee lollygags, Lamb is defensively challenged and Berkman is a chubby bundle of bad decisions.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2007, 02:40:29 pm »
Dude, give a warning, please!
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2007, 02:41:23 pm »
I have come to the conclusion that the level of joy brought on by watching the 2007 Astros is somewhat akin to this.

That took a moment to register.  Ugh.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #64 on: July 13, 2007, 02:41:31 pm »
They were pulling this shit before AE went down.  Lee lollygags, Lamb is defensively challenged and Berkman is a chubby bundle of bad decisions.

That's insulting to lollygaggers.  Lee has to be one of the five best hitters in the league, because that is ALL he brings to the table.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2007, 02:42:58 pm »
That's insulting to lollygaggers.  Lee has to be one of the five best hitters in the league, because that is ALL he brings to the table.

I think it is all he wants to bring to the table.  If all he wanted to do was hit he should not have signed with a NL team.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2007, 02:47:45 pm »
Bottom 5, 3-0 Cubs:

Lee K swinging
Ramirez flies to shallow LF

Do-Ray filling time by reciting Wrigley's dimensions.

Floyd grounds down the 1b line, Berkman's toss pulls Jennings off the bag.  Anyone surprised?  Charitably ruled a single.  Not sure how the scorer makes that call, since the ump was ready to signal out.
DeRosa bloops one to RF, Floyd to 3b.
Jones bounces to Berkman, who dives and gets the "blue star" to go with his multiple brown stars for the game.

End 5, 3-0 Cubs.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #67 on: July 13, 2007, 02:50:54 pm »
multiple brown stars for the game.



Those aren't stars.
Goin' for a bus ride.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2007, 02:56:05 pm »
Top 6, 3-0 Cubs:

Munson sneaks one up the middle for a single.
Jennings bunts into the force play at 2b, Jennings beats the rap at first.
Biggio flies to the CF track, Do-Ray call it one of the best hit balls of the day.
Pence K swinging on a 2-2 slider.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2007, 02:56:17 pm »
I have come to the conclusion that the level of joy brought on by watching the 2007 Astros is somewhat akin to this.

A man walks into a cantina in Spain.  He's perusing the menu when there's a sudden uproar from the kitchen.  The entire kitchen and waitstaff, it seems, bursts through the flapping doors in a loud parade of shouts and trumpets, with the chef at the head.  He is holding aloft a silver serving tray.  The chef leads the parade to a table where a man sits expectantly.  The chef places the platter in front of the man and, with a giant flourish, removes the lid.  On the plate is a bed of rice with a halo of vegetables, but in the middle are two, large, egg-shaped masses of flesh and gristle.

"What is that?" asks our man when he can get a waiter's attention.

"Senior!  That is the especiale!" explains the waiter with great pride.  "It is the testicles of the bull from today's bull fight!"

"I would like to try that," says our man enthusiastically.  But alas it is not to be.  There is only one especiale per day.  Our man vows to get here early tomorrow and order the intriguing dish.

The next day comes and our man is back in the cantina, bright and early.  He orders the especiale, and is pleased to be told that it is still available for him.  His excitement grows as he waits for his order.

At last!  The kitchen doors burst open and out pours the parade.  The chef is at the front, as he makes his way over to our man's table.  Silver platter held high above his head.  As the chef arrives, he elegantly swings the platter down and in front of our man.  With a grin, he whisks away the lid to reveal...two rather sorry looking, small, pasty grey ovals with some nasty looking flesh hanging off them.

As if reading our man's mind, the chef looks at him and shrugs.

"Senior, sometimes the bull wins."
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2007, 02:58:59 pm »
in case I ever go nuts, someone remind me there are better vacations than trying to outrun fighting bulls.

cheap air fair or not.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #71 on: July 13, 2007, 03:00:48 pm »
in case I ever go nuts, someone remind me there are better vacations than trying to outrun fighting bulls.

cheap air fair or not.

This may be more your speed.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #72 on: July 13, 2007, 03:01:47 pm »
This may be more your speed.

I've seen that one before. That does look like fun.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #73 on: July 13, 2007, 03:03:52 pm »
Bottom 6, 3-0 Cubs:

Soto K
Zambrano singles, Pence cuts it off to prevent the double
Soriano doubles to the LF corner, Zambrano to 3b

Jennings to 102 pitches, Garner goes to the pen.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #74 on: July 13, 2007, 03:04:13 pm »
Fucking Zambrano:  2-3, 1 RBI, 6 IP, 0 ER
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2007, 03:05:18 pm »
Qualls in, getting some work before his suspension kicks in.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #76 on: July 13, 2007, 03:05:36 pm »
This may be more your speed.

I've done that.  When my siblings and I were much younger we used to get in "discussions" with one another and throw tomatoes.  Pain in the ass to clean off a bifold door before the parents got home.  I don't know if anyone ever won.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2007, 03:10:44 pm »
What's going on?  Yahoo! has posted a smiling photo of Qualls as the pitcher, but not moved for about 10 mins!
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2007, 03:12:17 pm »
I've done that.  When my siblings and I were much younger we used to get in "discussions" with one another and throw tomatoes.  Pain in the ass to clean off a bifold door before the parents got home.  I don't know if anyone ever won.

'winning' isn't as important as 'pasting the other guy' in that sort of competition.


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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2007, 03:13:39 pm »
What's going on?  Yahoo! has posted a smiling photo of Qualls as the pitcher, but not moved for about 10 mins!

Ground out and 2 walks to load the bases with 2 out for Floyd.
Goin' for a bus ride.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2007, 03:15:52 pm »
Theriot hits one off the mound, Loretta barehands and gets his man at 1b.  Runners hold.
Lee walks.
Ramirez walks, bringing in the run.  Jennings is likely to kill every man in the clubhouse today.
Floyd flies to CF.

1 run, 2 hits, 3 LOB

End 6, Cubs 4-0.

Close the book on Jennings: 5.1 IP, 10 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 7 K, 1 BB
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2007, 03:17:23 pm »
'winning' isn't as important as 'pasting the other guy' in that sort of competition.



Winning and pasting can be one and the same.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2007, 03:17:49 pm »
This is brutal stuff.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2007, 03:22:55 pm »
Time to trade Jennings for some prospects?

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2007, 03:23:42 pm »
This is brutal stuff.

Should have added to my last post about a shitty b-day present from the astros...

Every time we face Z I feel like it's going to take a miracle for the good guys to win.


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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2007, 03:25:41 pm »
Time to trade Jennings for some prospects?

I bet if Purp deals anyone it will be on the deadline.

BTW, what is the deadline time?
Goin' for a bus ride.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2007, 03:27:55 pm »
I bet Purp doesn't make a trade.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2007, 03:29:01 pm »
Top 7, 4-0 Cubs:

Berkman K looking on a makeup call, he really swung on the previous "check".
Lee singles
Loretta reaches
Lamb crushes one to LF, but Soriano is there at the wall
Scott walks to load the bases

Pinella out to pul Zambrano
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2007, 03:29:56 pm »
Time to trade Jennings for some prospects?

If I were to ever hear one of these clowns from the Chron blogs make the stupid, "Why not just trade him for Taveras and Hirsh, heh, heh" joke, I would punch him in the face.  Fact!
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2007, 03:30:28 pm »
Marmol on to pitch.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2007, 03:31:01 pm »
Munson hits one well to deep RCF, Jones makes the catch, leaving the bases loaded.

Jim Belushi to sing "Take Me Out".
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #91 on: July 13, 2007, 03:31:11 pm »
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #92 on: July 13, 2007, 03:31:35 pm »
Munson hits one well to deep RCF, Jones makes the catch, leaving the bases loaded.

Jim Belushi to sing "Take Me Out".

is the wind blowing in?
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #93 on: July 13, 2007, 03:33:02 pm »
Blowing in at 12 mph.  On another day, Biggio, Lamb, and Munson would have all reached the seats.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #94 on: July 13, 2007, 03:33:10 pm »
is the wind blowing in?

They said yes- 12 miles an hour earlier in the gz...

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #95 on: July 13, 2007, 03:33:33 pm »
I don't know what Jennings would bring, but you can sometimes get lucky with pitchers at the deadline.

on a side note, I just IM'd Joey Trum's juarez story to a guy down the hall. I heard the "AHH!! OH GOD!" all the way down here.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #96 on: July 13, 2007, 03:34:13 pm »
I wonder how many of you freaks nominated that for POTWA.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #97 on: July 13, 2007, 03:34:21 pm »
Blowing in at 12 mph.  On another day, Biggio, Lamb, and Munson would have all reached the seats.

typical 2007 Astros luck
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #98 on: July 13, 2007, 03:35:45 pm »
I bet if Purp deals anyone it will be on the deadline.

BTW, what is the deadline time?

Last day of July, or so I believe.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #99 on: July 13, 2007, 03:38:27 pm »
Last day of July, or so I believe.

11 PM CT on the 31st?  The Astros are in Bravoland that day.
Goin' for a bus ride.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #100 on: July 13, 2007, 03:40:18 pm »
Bottom 7, 4-0 Cubs:

Lidge in, Qualls out.

DeRosa K swinging
Jones K looking
Soto reaches on Loretta's E6 - thrown into the stands - Berkman hit ny the runner, appears to be OK
Marmol bounces 6-3

End 7, 4-0 Cubs
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #101 on: July 13, 2007, 03:40:42 pm »
11 PM CT on the 31st?  The Astros are in Bravoland that day.

I believe it's now 3 or 4 PM.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #102 on: July 13, 2007, 03:42:20 pm »
If I were to ever hear one of these clowns from the Chron blogs make the stupid, "Why not just trade him for Taveras and Hirsh, heh, heh" joke, I would punch him in the face.  Fact!

JdJO in his in-game blog went on a mild rant on the Astros defense.  He blamed Phil Garner for this.  Okay, I don't know why, but he did:

The Astros' defense was laughable as the Cubs took a 3-0 lead in the bottom of the fourth. For two years, they have lacked fundamentals and appeared undisciplined, and that is inexcusable. That reflects on the manager, whether Garner admits it or not. These aren't kids doing stupid things. These are veterans, and somebody must be accountable.


Two years?  Really? Okay, then he goes on to ask this:

Who do you blame for the Astros playing with such poor fundamentals?

One reader (Cecil) responds as this way:

You can't blame Garner. Everyone has been screaming for offense. Loretta and Lamb give you more offense than Everette and Ensberg, but Loretta at short and Lamb at third is a disaster. Loretta can play second OK. Lamb blows easy plays even at first. I hope those of you who love to bash Everette (you know who you are) are enjoying what you are now getting. It makes me cry.

You know, I bet the thing about "everyone" and "You know who you are" statements gets lost for JdJO.  He won't notice that this includes the media.  But then again, you can't fire fans, media or even the 25 guys on the team.  You can, however, fire the manager and that seems to be what the local media guys are now starting to whisper about.

Give them two weeks and if the Astros offense is doing well, they'll just write that the Astros should *not* re-insert Everett into the shortstop position.  Watch.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #103 on: July 13, 2007, 03:43:18 pm »
I believe it's now 3 or 4 PM.

So, I got my lazy ass to mlb.com.  3CT on the 31st.  The Astros are off on the 30th and have a night game in ATL on the 31st.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2007, 03:45:24 pm by Jacksonian »
Goin' for a bus ride.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #104 on: July 13, 2007, 03:45:22 pm »
11 PM CT on the 31st?  The Astros are in Bravoland that day.

Braves 2 1/2 behind the suddenly struggling steMs as we speak

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #105 on: July 13, 2007, 03:46:38 pm »
Shitty game, but I guess it should have been completely expected vs. Zambrano.  What the Astros need to do is just keep winning series, and that's still possible in this one.  But if they don't win just about every series between now and the 31st, the dealing will happen.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #106 on: July 13, 2007, 03:47:39 pm »
Top 8, 4-0 Cubs:

Palmeiro PH for Lidge, K swinging
Biggio grounds 6-3
Pence made an out that I missed... inning over.

I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #107 on: July 13, 2007, 03:49:10 pm »
Shitty game, but I guess it should have been completely expected vs. Zambrano.  What the Astros need to do is just keep winning series, and that's still possible in this one.  But if they don't win just about every series between now and the 31st, the dealing will happen.

Yes on the Zambrano versus the offense part.  No on the Astros defense shooting themselves on the foot.  You sometimes feel you lost a game and the other team really didn't beat you... you beat yourself.  It is somewhere in-between today, Zambrano made strides the Astros didn't win, but the Astros themselves insured it.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #108 on: July 13, 2007, 03:49:39 pm »
Top 8, 4-0 Cubs:

Palmeiro PH for Lidge, K swinging
Biggio grounds 6-3
Pence made an out that I missed... inning over.



6-3 GO

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #109 on: July 13, 2007, 03:52:19 pm »
Yes on the Zambrano versus the offense part.  No on the Astros defense shooting themselves on the foot.  You sometimes feel you lost a game and the other team really didn't beat you... you beat yourself.  It is somewhere in-between today, Zambrano made strides the Astros didn't win, but the Astros themselves insured it.

I'd be a lot more pissed about the errors if we had a run or 2 on the board, but with the goose egg up there it doesn't really matter much.*

*Not that I condone horribly shitty, amateurish defense

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #110 on: July 13, 2007, 03:53:58 pm »
Shitty game, but I guess it should have been completely expected vs. Zambrano.  What the Astros need to do is just keep winning series, and that's still possible in this one.  But if they don't win just about every series between now and the 31st, the dealing will happen.

3 at the Cubs
3 at the Nats
3 at the Roots
3 vs the Dodgers
4 vs the Pads
30th off day
31st at ATL

I'm guessing 7-9 post-ASB record on the 30th.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #111 on: July 13, 2007, 03:54:08 pm »
I'd be a lot more pissed about the errors if we had a run or 2 on the board, but with the goose egg up there it doesn't really matter much.*

*Not that I condone horribly shitty, amateurish defense

It's a lot easier to come back from a 1-0 deficit than a 4-0 deficit.  Just saying.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #112 on: July 13, 2007, 03:54:41 pm »
6-0, and I do see your point.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #113 on: July 13, 2007, 03:55:26 pm »
I've pretty much fallen asleep / started doing actual work, but I think Lee just hit a 2-run double off Albers.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #114 on: July 13, 2007, 03:55:53 pm »
This is not the best time for Albers to lose it.  He can quickly change the thinking from the Astros about trades if he just proves he has the capacity to do this job.  He's not competing today.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #115 on: July 13, 2007, 03:57:26 pm »
This is not the best time for Albers to lose it.  He can quickly change the thinking from the Astros about trades if he just proves he has the capacity to do this job.  He's not competing today.

doesn't sound like the Astros did much competing today as a team.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #116 on: July 13, 2007, 03:59:50 pm »
Chalk up another E6.

This may be the worst game of the year.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #117 on: July 13, 2007, 04:00:00 pm »
typical 2007 Astros luck

The Cubs have the advantage of being able to hit it directly at infielders, and still score.  That's tough to overcome.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #118 on: July 13, 2007, 04:00:34 pm »
This is not the best time for Albers to lose it.  He can quickly change the thinking from the Astros about trades if he just proves he has the capacity to do this job.  He's not competing today.

IMO, Albers has been expendable since 2006.  I would not complain if Purp were able to swing a deal for a good young 3b using Albers as a centerpiece to the deal.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #119 on: July 13, 2007, 04:00:44 pm »
Loretta's a fucking disaster at shortstop.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #120 on: July 13, 2007, 04:01:41 pm »
Fucking A. I had no idea this was a day game. I am an idiot. Did I miss the series preview?

And also, what the hell I am going to do tonight? I was all set to finally watch a ballgame.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #121 on: July 13, 2007, 04:02:17 pm »
IMO, Albers has been expendable since 2006.  I would not complain if Purp were able to swing a deal for a good young 3b using Albers as a centerpiece to the deal.

Yes, and I would not complain if he could consume the Brewers and Cubs with fire from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his ass.  But I don't think that's likely either.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #122 on: July 13, 2007, 04:04:01 pm »
And also, what the hell I am going to do tonight?

My advice to you, is to start drinking heavily.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #123 on: July 13, 2007, 04:05:00 pm »
Fucking A. I had no idea this was a day game. I am an idiot. Did I miss the series preview?

And also, what the hell I am going to do tonight? I was all set to finally watch a ballgame.

Replay tonight at 7:30.  I may find something else to do.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #124 on: July 13, 2007, 04:05:33 pm »
You couldn't pay me to watch a replay of this shit.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #125 on: July 13, 2007, 04:07:21 pm »
My advice to you, is to start drinking heavily.

Advice taken. Beer is opened, and bottle of whiskey is being eyed greedily.

Maybe I'll be drunk enough by 7:30 to watch what seems to be an awful game.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #126 on: July 13, 2007, 04:08:06 pm »
Carlos with the infield single to even the "H" column up with the "E" column.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #127 on: July 13, 2007, 04:10:01 pm »
My advice to you, is to start drinking heavily.

Pay attention to him, Bench....he's in pre-med.
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #128 on: July 13, 2007, 04:12:59 pm »
Loretta dinks a single for the moral victory of the "0-5-4" line for the day.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #129 on: July 13, 2007, 04:13:59 pm »
Scott K's swinging.

Final score: Cubs 6, Astros 0.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #130 on: July 13, 2007, 04:23:04 pm »
Loretta's a fucking disaster at shortstop.

stubby's predictable post. as predictable as the swallows....
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #131 on: July 13, 2007, 04:24:44 pm »
"...and the wind.....cries, 'Fairies!' "
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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #132 on: July 13, 2007, 04:32:17 pm »
Replay tonight at 7:30.

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #133 on: July 13, 2007, 07:14:18 pm »
stubby's predictable post. as predictable as the swallows....

Who's stalking whom?

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Re: Astros @ sbuC - 7/13/07
« Reply #134 on: July 13, 2007, 10:21:39 pm »
Often wrong, but never in doubt.