Pence now leads NL

[rambo2]

We have a new leader in the NL after the games today.

Pence .342
Holliday .341

[Astroholic]

We have a new leader in the NL after the games today.

Pence .342
Holliday .341

BFD.  It is early July for Christ's sakes.

[Mr. Happy]

BFD.  It is early July for Christ's sakes.

No, you don't understand. It's PENCE!!!

[rambo2]

BFD.  It is early July for Christ's sakes.

It is the All-star break and it has been fun watching Pence play.  Have the Astros ever had the leading hitter at the break?

[Andyzipp]

It is the All-star break and it has been fun watching Pence play.  Have the Astros ever had the leading hitter at the break?

Y'know what?  I doubt anyone knows, or cares to remember because it's COMPLETELY INCONSEQUENTIAL to anything. 

Having said that, Bagwell probably was pretty close in 1994.

[Fredia]

Y'know what?  I doubt anyone knows, or cares to remember because it's COMPLETELY INCONSEQUENTIAL to anything. 

Having said that, Bagwell probably was pretty close in 1994.

its fun to watch him because he does not seem full of himself. from dinging himself in the head to making and missing major catches...to the constant chatter in the dugout.hope this wideyed wonder will continue  ..i bet i can guarenttee there is not another like him in all of mb

[Waldo]

Having said that, Bagwell probably was pretty close in 1994.

Wasn't Lance hitting north of .360 at the break a few years back?

Come to think of it, that may be the same year Helton was flirting with .400 for a while.

[Houston]

I seem to remember Art Howe leading the league at the break (1980?) and not being selected for the All-Star game.

[JimR]

We have a new leader in the NL after the games today.

Pence .342
Holliday .341

may i add my BFD to the multitude? take a look at the Astros' W-L record. that is the only stat that matters.

[Arky Vaughan]

Having said that, Bagwell probably was pretty close in 1994.

Third, behind Tony Gwynn and Hal Morris:

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1994/DL07101994.htm

[Arky Vaughan]

I seem to remember Art Howe leading the league at the break (1980?) and not being selected for the All-Star game.

Ray Knight was third at .317 in 1982 and second at .336 in 1983.

Derek Bell was third at .336 in 1998.

[Limey]

Third, behind Tony Gwynn and Hal Morris...

...who where nowhere to be seen in either the SLG%, Runs or RBI top 4s.  An amazing season t'was.

[MusicMan]

take a look at the Astros' W-L record. that is the only stat that matters.

Which is why you'll see more and more people grasping for straws like this.

[Arky Vaughan]

may i add my BFD to the multitude? take a look at the Astros' W-L record. that is the only stat that matters.

3,000 hits was pretty cool.

[Rammer33]

I don’t know if it’s a “BFD” but it’s a pretty nice accomplishment and it will be an even bigger one if he holds on and finishes the year like this …

Obviously the teams record is more important but that’s no reason to ignore or belittle a good individual performance …  It may not be the biggest fucking deal in the world and it would be an even bigger fucking deal after a full season but it is worth noting and I for one would rather be happy for Pence than get caught up in the bullshit negativity on here that seems to surround his success … 

[Andyzipp]

So leading the league at some arbitrary date is now an accomplishment?

[JimR]

I don’t know if it’s a “BFD” but it’s a pretty nice accomplishment and it will be an even bigger one if he holds on and finishes the year like this …

Obviously the teams record is more important but that’s no reason to ignore or belittle a good individual performance …  It may not be the biggest fucking deal in the world and it would be an even bigger fucking deal after a full season but it is worth noting and I for one would rather be happy for Pence than get caught up in the bullshit negativity on here that seems to surround his success … 

BFD to you, too.

[Rammer33]

So leading the league at some arbitrary date is now an accomplishment?

no, but performing at a high level for half a season is ... and performing at a high level for a full season will be an even bigger accomplishment ... this post on May 4th is not a BFD but it becomes progressively noteworthy as the season moves on ... its not about a random stat on a random date - its about a great performance through the first half of a season ... it shouldn’t take the stat to make one notice but if it does who cares - He’s done a good job thus far … and I'll leave it at that ...

I didn't make this original post but I think half a season is worth noting ... this doesn't mean we need to hang a fucking banner next to biggio's 3000 nor does it mean we need to belittle it for whatever reason ... I'd prefer to be happy for the kid and say good job, the same way most did when luke scott finished half a season with a similar performance last year ...

[At Ease]

So leading the league at some arbitrary date is now an accomplishment?

Yeah, outperforming the rest of the NL BA-wise over half a season is impressive.

Particularly given all of the supposed limitations Pence carried with him, that we were regularly warned about.

[Mr. Happy]

Yeah, outperforming the rest of the NL BA-wise over half a season is impressive.

Particularly given all of the supposed limitations Pence carried with him, that we were regularly warned about.

Can't we just say that he's had a solid half season at the plate and leave it at that. I like the kid's spirit. He's ugly in lots of things that he does but he is a competitor. Coach is correct, though. W's and L's-the only stat that even PENCE!!! would say really matters.

[Limey]

no, but performing at a high level for half a season is ...

Ausmus typically has one good half, one bad half, every year.  Yet he is constantly slammed for having no stick.  Why does everyone overlook the good half and just point as those annoying, full season numbers?

[Arky Vaughan]

Ausmus typically has one good half, one bad half, every year.  Yet he is constantly slammed for having no stick.  Why does everyone overlook the good half and just point as those annoying, full season numbers?

When was the last time Ausmus or any other Astro was leading the league in batting average at the All-Star break? Pence doesn't deserve an award or even a cookie, and it doesn't make up for the sub-.500 record, but I hope he keeps it up and continues to contribute to the improvement of the team.

[Andyzipp]

Yeah, outperforming the rest of the NL BA-wise over half a season is impressive.

Particularly given all of the supposed limitations Pence carried with him, that we were regularly warned about.

But if he falls off the table the second half, and finished the 2007 season at .270 or so, do you really care what he did at the 55% mark of the season? If the midway point is such a big deal, does it matter that he wasn't eligible at the half way mark?

[Rammer33]

if at the end of the season we look back and say "you know what as good of a first half as Pence was having, he was as bad as anyone in the second," then, I guarantee you folks will criticize … I know I will  … however with pence sometimes it seems this massive slump is assumed or dare I say hoped for (perhaps to validate a preexisting opinion – but that’s another bag of worms - I thought he’d struggle significantly more than he has but I am glad I was wrong) …

we’ll see if he keeps it up given last seasons hot/cold performance … but you can only praise a player for what he’s done in context and given it’s the first half of a rookie season: good job ... of course - the obvious - its only been the first half of a seasons so some of the enthusiasm should be tempered … however, I don’t think his performance thus far is worth blowing off with a who cares or big fucking deal … as a long time lurker back to the AC days it seems a little inconsistent with how the praise and criticism of other players has flowed on this board … for now I just assume say good job thus far on a very good performance … no more no less and move on

[JimR]

if at the end of the season we look back and say "you know what as good of a first half as Pence was having, he was as bad as anyone in the second," then, I guarantee you folks will criticize … I know I will  … however with pence sometimes it seems this massive slump is assumed or dare I say hoped for (perhaps to validate a preexisting opinion – but that’s another bag of worms - I thought he’d struggle significantly more than he has but I am glad I was wrong) …

we’ll see if he keeps it up given last seasons hot/cold performance … but you can only praise a player for what he’s done in context and given it’s the first half of a rookie season: good job ... of course - the obvious - its only been the first half of a seasons so some of the enthusiasm should be tempered … however, I don’t think his performance thus far is worth blowing off with a who cares or big fucking deal … as a long time lurker back to the AC days it seems a little inconsistent with how the praise and criticism of other players has flowed on this board … for now I just assume say good job thus far on a very good performance … no more no less and move on

of course, he has done well. as to the "preexisting opinion," i hope you include the RR Express folks along with the opinions of TZers that phrase includes.

you cannot conclude anything from a half season except that he is unconscious right now. good for him. only time will tell how good he turns out to be, and i'll still say, for me, individual stats are BFD if the team is not successful.

[Rammer33]

of course, he has done well. as to the "preexisting opinion," i hope you include the RR Express folks along with the opinions of TZers that phrase includes.

you cannot conclude anything from a half season except that he is unconscious right now. good for him. only time will tell how good he turns out to be, and i'll still say, for me, individual stats are BFD if the team is not successful.

of course - although I haven’t spoken with many involved with RR (or corpus) specifically on pence ...

overall I agree with you – it is only a half season and to extrapolate anything is kind of pointless if not outright misleading ... but I do appreciate individual stats when they reflect good performances and often in seasons like this where the games get progressively less meaningful its one of the things baseball has that keeps the games more interesting (subplots) something the other sports fall short in (IMO buts that’s neither here nor there) … I don’t value stats that have little meaning as it relates to winning or are the product of some kind of numerical oddity … 

[JimR]

of course - although I haven’t spoken with many involved with RR (or corpus) specifically on pence ...

overall I agree with you – it is only a half season and to extrapolate anything is kind of pointless if not outright misleading ... but I do appreciate individual stats when they reflect good performances and often in seasons like this where the games get progressively less meaningful its one of the things baseball has that keeps the games more interesting (subplots) something the other sports fall short in (IMO buts that’s neither here nor there) … I don’t value stats that have little meaning as it relates to winning or are the product of some kind of numerical oddity … 

i, like everyone else, enjoy seeing Pence hit one off the wall. i am happy for him that things are going so well. his success, however, must be viewed in the context of the game and season, imo. when the game is over and the team has lost, i do not say or think: "well, at least Pence was 3-4 and still has the league lead." that sort of stuff does not even register.

[Limey]

i, like everyone else, enjoy seeing Pence hit one off the wall. i am happy for him that things are going so well. his success, however, must be viewed in the context of the game and season, imo. when the game is over and the team has lost, i do not say or think: "well, at least Pence was 3-4 and still has the league lead." that sort of stuff does not even register.

I've been getting a serious case of deja vu looking at the headlines for Bonds.  "Bonds homers in Giants loss" is the familiar message.  Just exchange Bonds for Sosa and Giants for Cubs.

Pence's hitting is helping the team immensely.  I'm happy for him but I prefer wins.

[WulawHorn]

i, like everyone else, enjoy seeing Pence hit one off the wall. i am happy for him that things are going so well. his success, however, must be viewed in the context of the game and season, imo. when the game is over and the team has lost, i do not say or think: "well, at least Pence was 3-4 and still has the league lead." that sort of stuff does not even register.

Then you are obviously not a Pirate fan (witness their BA watch last year).

10 years in the cellar will do that for you.

[Noe]

Pence's hitting is helping the team immensely.  I'm happy for him but I prefer wins.

I perfer wins too.  Richard Hidalgo in 2000 was a huge surprise and his September that year is one for the books.  Kid was a monster and was rewarded with a huge mega contract that follow off-season.

And he was never the same again.

That said, good for Pence, nice going on the non-award of leading of the NL in batting in July of 2007.