Purpura: The way we're going is not acceptable

[homer]

General manager Tim Purpura had a closed-door meeting with Phil Garner and the coaching staff Wednesday morning at Miller Park. They discussed everything from the farm system to pitch selection and defensive alignments. After the meeting, Purpura didn't rule out any changes to one of the worst teams in baseball.

"Anything's possible at this stage," Purpura said. "I'm looking at any possible thing that we can do to make ourselves better, whether that's bringing guys up, whether that's moving guys out, whether that's making trades. The way we're going is obviously not acceptable. It's to the point. That's our job to try to make this club better. That's what we're going to try to do."

Garner didn't want to divulge much about the meeting.

"We exchanged ideas in an open forum," Garner said.

...

"We talked about a lot of things. Personnel but also defensive positioning and pitch selection and stuff like that, the things that those guys are adept at.

...

Pitching and defense go hand in hand."

http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2007/06/purpura_the_way.html

[Arky Vaughan]

http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2007/06/purpura_the_way.html

There's only so many ways to position the defensive assortment that the Astros have put out there. The reference to traffic cones a few days ago comes to mind.

[MusicMan]

"We exchanged ideas in an open forum," Garner said.

The next time my boss chew me out and criticizes my work, I'll refer to it this way.

[homer]

More (and better) from Footer:

"We're sorting through the possibilies," Purpura said. "I'm not going to stand around and watch us play this poorly. It's not right to the club, it's not right to the fans.

"But what you can do? I don't know. You look in the [Minor League] system, move some guys on, try to make some trades. We'll look at all of that and see what's possible."

"[Lidge is] a guy that we counted on in the seventh and eighth innings for the better part of two months," Purpura said. "He did his job tremendously and he worked himself back in the closer's role. [His absence] hurts us a lot, whether he's the ninth-inning guy or the seventh-or-eighth-inning guy. It's a loss."

"We'll play it as [Biggio] goes," Purpura said. "If he's contributing to the club, he'll play. If he's not, he won't -- at least, not as much. Everyone realizes we need to find out what Chris Burke can do at second base, what our options are in the future. [Biggio will] be in the mix, but I would think it won't be to the same extent.

"It'll be a transition. [Biggio] is a guy, too, that if he's on the bench and you need a pinch-hitter, he's a pretty good pinch-hitter to have."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070627&content_id=2052161&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[Limey]

Everyone realizes we need to find out what Chris Burke can do at second base

He's been in the bigs for 4 years.  If they don't know what he can do by now, then it's not just the players that they should be looking at!

[JaneDoe]

He's been in the bigs for 4 years.  If they don't know what he can do by now, then it's not just the players that they should be looking at!

I guess they think that once he is in his "natural position" at 2B, his stress level will decrease, the heavens will shine down on him and his batting average, OBP and slugging will increase by couple hundred points.

[MusicMan]

He has just over 100 games, and just over 500 innings total, at 2b.  I tend to believe that WYSIWYG for Burke, but it's not unreasonable to say you need to see him at 2b every day.

[JimR]

He has just over 100 games, and just over 500 innings total, at 2b.  I tend to believe that WYSIWYG for Burke, but it's not unreasonable to say you need to see him at 2b every day.

yes. that was the one thing on which i agreed with Burke when he went down. the thing is, he played very little at 2B in AAA. strange.

[Ron Brand]

Coach, do you think they were focusing on the experiment at CF for Burke, expecting that Pence would fail and get the media/fans to stop clamoring for bringing him along faster than they wanted to?

[JimR]

Coach, do you think they were focusing on the experiment at CF for Burke, expecting that Pence would fail and get the media/fans to stop clamoring for bringing him along faster than they wanted to?

no. i think that everyone in the org, including the folks at RR, thought that Pence needed at least half a season in AAA and that he would be a corner OF. he played as much RF as CF in RR. Bruntlett played CF.i think the MLB guys thought Burke was ready for a fulltime job and that he would do well. he had been a good LF and did fine taking over for Taveras last year.

[Phil_in_CS]

changes need to need to made?
gee, ya think?

as we've said here, option are pretty limited for now.   good options, any way

[rambo2]

They need to play Burke every day at 2nd and see how he does as a leadoff man.  They need to do this so they can make a decision about next year.  if Burke can't do it, they are going to have to find someone that can leadoff.

[Limey]

He has just over 100 games, and just over 500 innings total, at 2b.  I tend to believe that WYSIWYG for Burke, but it's not unreasonable to say you need to see him at 2b every day.

Do you think he's going to hit better playing at 2B than he was when playing the outfield?

[Mr. Happy]

When the GM goes on a roadie and has a closed door session with the coaches, that is serious and it usually means that heads may fall soon. Is Scrap Iron in trouble?

[Phil_in_CS]

When the GM goes on a roadie and has a closed door session with the coaches, that is serious and it usually means that heads may fall soon. Is Scrap Iron in trouble?

Might be time for the annual sacrifice of the hitting and pitching coaches.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Might be time for the annual sacrifice of the hitting and pitching coaches.

And that helped?  Why not fire the athletic trainer.  Maybe that will send the message across to the PLAYERS!  Yeah, fire the trainer!

[Phil_in_CS]

And that helped?  Why not fire the athletic trainer.  Maybe that will send the message across to the PLAYERS!  Yeah, fire the trainer!

I didn't say it helped. It just seems to be an annual ritual.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

When the GM goes on a roadie and has a closed door session with the coaches, that is serious and it usually means that heads may fall soon. Is Scrap Iron in trouble?

Purpura is in trouble. And shit rolls in one direction.

[kevwun]

It will be a shame if Garner takes the fall for this.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I didn't say it helped. It just seems to be an annual ritual.

Sorry, not trying to start a fight with you.  My humor tends to be more dry than I realize. 

I had the same question last night after reading Purpura's comments.  I hope they don't made a scapegoat move and really address the roster or starting lineup where they see fit.  The problems are on the field, not in the dugout, front office, or training room.  I come from an industry where identifying and acting on root cause is critical to success, in both resolving the problem as well as performing self assessments after the fact.  Nothing pisses me off worse than someone identifying the root cause and then acting on something that is, at best, tangentially related.  Fix the problem source, not the environment surrounding the source. 

[Fredia]

sometimes this year its almost like they play muscial chairs before making out the line up. there has to be some explaniation for  the many strange and werid line ups. the astros should take notice.. on the radio this morning they called them lowly.. this is just not acceptable

[Limey]

Sorry, not trying to start a fight with you.  My humor tends to be more dry than I realize. 

I had the same question last night after reading Purpura's comments.  I hope they don't made a scapegoat move and really address the roster or starting lineup where they see fit.  The problems are on the field, not in the dugout, front office, or training room.  I come from an industry where identifying and acting on root cause is critical to success, in both resolving the problem as well as performing self assessments after the fact.  Nothing pisses me off worse than someone identifying the root cause and then acting on something that is, at best, tangentially related.  Fix the problem source, not the environment surrounding the source. 

Right.  Fire Milo!!!!

[pravata]

Might be time for the annual sacrifice of the hitting and pitching coaches.

They just hired the pitching coach.  That would be a panic move.  So, likely, they fire the pitching coach.

[JGrave]

They just hired the pitching coach.  That would be a panic move.  So, likely, they fire the pitching coach.

I don't see them firing Berry either. 

I don't think they'll fire Garner but I do think he'll be on a pretty short leash.  I'm not advocating but I agree with whoever it was that said when the GM goes on the road for a closed door meeting the day they are scheduled to come home means some heads could roll. 

[Taras Bulba]

Why do you think Garner will be on a "short leash?"

[Gizzmonic]

Because....his moustache sorta makes him look like a bulldog?

Why do you think Garner will be on a "short leash?"

[JGrave]

Why do you think Garner will be on a "short leash?"

I'm not saying he deserves it nor am I advocating it but I do think they are looking to make some reactionary move to prove that they are trying to do something for the fans to better the team.  It's just a gut feeling I have. 

[Phil_in_CS]

Right.  Fire Milo!!!!

That's a good idea in and of itself. Won't increase the winning, but will make the games easier to listen to.

[Jacksonian]

He's been in the bigs for 4 years.  If they don't know what he can do by now, then it's not just the players that they should be looking at!

I think his problems to start the year caught them very off guard.  The rationale up to that point and perhaps even now is that when Burke is given a regular full-time job at one position he can hit well.  They'll point to the second half of 05 when he was essentially given LF, and his last full season at AAA when he had a career year at NO.  I believe that they believe that if he's given 2b full-time his bat will be acceptable only now that belief is tinged with a little doubt thanks to his flop at the plate to start this year.

Also, from Purp's statements, there isn't much in the minors right now to reasonably callup.  McLemore would be fine.  The rest of the RR pitchers haven't exactly been lighting it up.  I suppose they could recall Albers.  Patton is better than AA, but he'd get torched by mlb hitters.  He hasn't been consistent this year, but his stuff is good enough to get AA hitters out.  His lack of consistency would get exploited by mlb hitters.  Unless, he goes PENCE!!! and suddenly figures things out.  IOW, if Purp is going to make changes to the 25-man to improve the club this year it'll come via trade.

[Randy Watson]

I say fire Stretch Suba since the bullpen has sucked

Seriously, the Astros need to consider trading away a few commodities for prospects.  Jennings, Lamb, Loretta, and maybe a couple others should be on the block right now.

[Jacksonian]

Seriously, the Astros need to consider trading away a few commodities for prospects.  Jennings, Lamb, Loretta, and maybe a couple others should be on the block right now.

After first reading this thread yesterday, and seeing Purp mention trades, I did a little looking around.  I went with Jennings, Lamb, and Loretta to see if there might be a fit with contending ballclubs.  I got through the AL and couldn't find a fit for Loretta.  I did find what I thought might be a fit for Jennings and Lamb on both Cleveland and Minnesota.  Jennings might fit with Detroit, maybe.  I didn't see a fit with Boston and LAA.  Maybe Lamb at LAA but that didn't seem as strong at Cleveland and Minnesota.  I don't know though how those teams see Jennings and Lamb.  I didn't get through the NL, but I'd bet there would be a fit with at least Jennings and Lamb on all the contenders and perhaps Loretta with several or many.

[kevwun]

Barzilla has been ok this year.  There's nothing to lose giving him a shot in the bullpen..  If nothing else it will be nice to see a different face jerking around to watch a game winner leave the park.

[Arky Vaughan]

I think his problems to start the year caught them very off guard.  The rationale up to that point and perhaps even now is that when Burke is given a regular full-time job at one position he can hit well.  They'll point to the second half of 05 when he was essentially given LF, and his last full season at AAA when he had a career year at NO.  I believe that they believe that if he's given 2b full-time his bat will be acceptable only now that belief is tinged with a little doubt thanks to his flop at the plate to start this year.

Also, from Purp's statements, there isn't much in the minors right now to reasonably callup.  McLemore would be fine.  The rest of the RR pitchers haven't exactly been lighting it up.  I suppose they could recall Albers.  Patton is better than AA, but he'd get torched by mlb hitters.  He hasn't been consistent this year, but his stuff is good enough to get AA hitters out.  His lack of consistency would get exploited by mlb hitters.  Unless, he goes PENCE!!! and suddenly figures things out.  IOW, if Purp is going to make changes to the 25-man to improve the club this year it'll come via trade.

Neither Burke nor Scott has performed the way they expected based on how they did when they got consistent playing time last year. Aside from Berkman, those are the biggest liabilities in the offense this year.

[Froback]

After first reading this thread yesterday, and seeing Purp mention trades, I did a little looking around.  I went with Jennings, Lamb, and Loretta to see if there might be a fit with contending ballclubs.  I got through the AL and couldn't find a fit for Loretta.  I did find what I thought might be a fit for Jennings and Lamb on both Cleveland and Minnesota.  Jennings might fit with Detroit, maybe.  I didn't see a fit with Boston and LAA.  Maybe Lamb at LAA but that didn't seem as strong at Cleveland and Minnesota.  I don't know though how those teams see Jennings and Lamb.  I didn't get through the NL, but I'd bet there would be a fit with at least Jennings and Lamb on all the contenders and perhaps Loretta with several or many.

I did some brief glancing previously as well, which is why I believe they have little to offer and what they do, would ammount to getting minor leaguers not people to really help the ML ballclub.  Stangers things have happend, but that is how it looks to me at this time.

[Limey]

Neither Burke nor Scott has performed the way they expected based on how they did when they got consistent playing time last year. Aside from Berkman, those are the biggest liabilities in the offense this year.

Lane too, but he's gone.

[Noe]

After first reading this thread yesterday, and seeing Purp mention trades, I did a little looking around.  I went with Jennings, Lamb, and Loretta to see if there might be a fit with contending ballclubs.  I got through the AL and couldn't find a fit for Loretta.  I did find what I thought might be a fit for Jennings and Lamb on both Cleveland and Minnesota.  Jennings might fit with Detroit, maybe.  I didn't see a fit with Boston and LAA.  Maybe Lamb at LAA but that didn't seem as strong at Cleveland and Minnesota.  I don't know though how those teams see Jennings and Lamb.  I didn't get through the NL, but I'd bet there would be a fit with at least Jennings and Lamb on all the contenders and perhaps Loretta with several or many.

If Scott were healthy, he'd be a good target for most contending clubs.  A solid left handed bat who plays outfield!

[MusicMan]

After first reading this thread yesterday, and seeing Purp mention trades, I did a little looking around.  I went with Jennings, Lamb, and Loretta to see if there might be a fit with contending ballclubs.  I got through the AL and couldn't find a fit for Loretta.  I did find what I thought might be a fit for Jennings and Lamb on both Cleveland and Minnesota.  Jennings might fit with Detroit, maybe.  I didn't see a fit with Boston and LAA.  Maybe Lamb at LAA but that didn't seem as strong at Cleveland and Minnesota.  I don't know though how those teams see Jennings and Lamb.  I didn't get through the NL, but I'd bet there would be a fit with at least Jennings and Lamb on all the contenders and perhaps Loretta with several or many.

Boston might take a look at Loretta if the Lugo suckfest continues.

The steM might really, really like to have Loretta.  (Enough to give up the almighty Lastings Milledge?  No.)

Padres could play him at either 2b or 3b.  Lamb would be a good fit there too.

[Jacksonian]

Barzilla has been ok this year.  There's nothing to lose giving him a shot in the bullpen..  If nothing else it will be nice to see a different face jerking around to watch a game winner leave the park.

The 40-man is full.  A player would have to come it to add Barzilla.  That may not be a big deal, but Purp would have to decide if the risk of losing a player by putting him on waivers is worth adding Barzilla to the 25-man roster.  IMO, they'd move McLemore back up before making changes to the 40-man.

[Jacksonian]

Neither Burke nor Scott has performed the way they expected based on how they did when they got consistent playing time last year. Aside from Berkman, those are the biggest liabilities in the offense this year.

Burke's spot isn't a liability.  He'd only be a liability if his spot on the roster were continuing to hit poorly.  He was replaced by Pence, an offensive upgrade.  Scott's production has been up and down.  But, to me, Berkman first then Biggio's fall off far soon than I'd expected then Ensberg.

[Jacksonian]

Boston might take a look at Loretta if the Lugo suckfest continues.

I was thinking Epstein would go with a superior defender at the expense of a good bat if they dropped Lugo rather than the other way around since he did that in 04.

[MusicMan]

This much I know - Buehrle's decision to stay in ChiTown has to raise Jennings' value.

[Jacksonian]

If Scott were healthy, he'd be a good target for most contending clubs.  A solid left handed bat who plays outfield!

He may still be a good target.  If Purp can't get a fair deal for anyone before late July, he won't make a deal.  By then Scott may be healthy and producing and a target.

[jbm]

After first reading this thread yesterday, and seeing Purp mention trades, I did a little looking around.  I went with Jennings, Lamb, and Loretta to see if there might be a fit with contending ballclubs.  I got through the AL and couldn't find a fit for Loretta.  I did find what I thought might be a fit for Jennings and Lamb on both Cleveland and Minnesota.  Jennings might fit with Detroit, maybe.  I didn't see a fit with Boston and LAA.  Maybe Lamb at LAA but that didn't seem as strong at Cleveland and Minnesota.  I don't know though how those teams see Jennings and Lamb.  I didn't get through the NL, but I'd bet there would be a fit with at least Jennings and Lamb on all the contenders and perhaps Loretta with several or many.

 

How long was your list of contenders?  With the wildcard, it seems like a lot more teams are buyers these days.

[Jacksonian]

 

How long was your list of contenders?  With the wildcard, it seems like a lot more teams are buyers these days.

As it sits right now it looks very much like the wildcard is coming out of the central.  I didn't have a lot of time so I went with that assumption.

[homer]

The 40-man is full.  A player would have to come it to add Barzilla.  That may not be a big deal, but Purp would have to decide if the risk of losing a player by putting him on waivers is worth adding Barzilla to the 25-man roster.  IMO, they'd move McLemore back up before making changes to the 40-man.

Backe could go to the 60 day DL.

Lane could come off.

Nieve could go to the 60 as well. Why isn't he on the DL now?

[Jacksonian]

Backe could go to the 60 day DL.

Lane could come off.

Nieve could go to the 60 as well. Why isn't he on the DL now?

Nieve's on the minor league DL.  I'm not sure the DL rules for 40-man roster players who are not on the 25-man when they got injured.

Backe could, very true.

I did say it may not be a big deal.  They likely wouldn't lose Lane and a couple of others, Ascensio comes to mind.

[Noe]

He may still be a good target.  If Purp can't get a fair deal for anyone before late July, he won't make a deal.  By then Scott may be healthy and producing and a target.

Detroit wanted Scott this offseason and made some serious inquiry about him.  Purpura didn't budge because he wanted insurance in case Lane went south (plus he had already traded away Tavares, so he wasn't going to ship out yet another starting outfielder).

I think Scott could be moved and then Houston would clear the way to move Pence to right and maybe insert a CF into the mix for 2008.  In the interim, if you're trading guys away, you bring back Lane for the remainder of the season, stick him in right or centerfield and see if he can turn it around once and for all.  What you may get in a Scott trade may justify that move, but if not, then you don't move Scott at all.

[MusicMan]

Interesting - Detroit has an uberstud CF prospect named Cameron Maybin.  They've been (understandably) unwilling to move him, but now that Granderson is having his breakout season, they might reconsider.

Scott wouldn't get it done.  Scott+Qualls+low-minors arm?  Maybe.

[Froback]

Interesting - Detroit has an uberstud CF prospect named Cameron Maybin.  They've been (understandably) unwilling to move him, but now that Granderson is having his breakout season, they might reconsider.

Scott wouldn't get it done.  Scott+Qualls+low-minors arm?  Maybe.

Depending on the low-minos arm in question, I would do that deal.

[MusicMan]

Depending on the low-minos arm in question, I would do that deal.

I'd do it in a New York minute.  I'm not conviced Dombrowski would, though.

[Jacksonian]

Detroit wanted Scott this offseason and made some serious inquiry about him.  Purpura didn't budge because he wanted insurance in case Lane went south (plus he had already traded away Tavares, so he wasn't going to ship out yet another starting outfielder).

I think Scott could be moved and then Houston would clear the way to move Pence to right and maybe insert a CF into the mix for 2008.  In the interim, if you're trading guys away, you bring back Lane for the remainder of the season, stick him in right or centerfield and see if he can turn it around once and for all.  What you may get in a Scott trade may justify that move, but if not, then you don't move Scott at all.

Much of what he does, IMO, will depend on whether they push to contend for the central this year or attempt to reload for next.  I won't go further because that would involve what I'd do and that isn't important.  The next 30 days will be very entertaining.

[Jacksonian]

Interesting - Detroit has an uberstud CF prospect named Cameron Maybin.  They've been (understandably) unwilling to move him, but now that Granderson is having his breakout season, they might reconsider.

Scott wouldn't get it done.  Scott+Qualls+low-minors arm?  Maybe.

The unanswerable question is how badly would/do they want Scott now?

[Noe]

Interesting - Detroit has an uberstud CF prospect named Cameron Maybin.  They've been (understandably) unwilling to move him, but now that Granderson is having his breakout season, they might reconsider.

Scott wouldn't get it done.  Scott+Qualls+low-minors arm?  Maybe.

Now we're talking!  Sounds very plausible to me!

[Arky Vaughan]

Detroit wanted Scott this offseason and made some serious inquiry about him.  Purpura didn't budge because he wanted insurance in case Lane went south (plus he had already traded away Tavares, so he wasn't going to ship out yet another starting outfielder).

I think Scott could be moved and then Houston would clear the way to move Pence to right and maybe insert a CF into the mix for 2008.  In the interim, if you're trading guys away, you bring back Lane for the remainder of the season, stick him in right or centerfield and see if he can turn it around once and for all.  What you may get in a Scott trade may justify that move, but if not, then you don't move Scott at all.

This may be a ridiculous question, but if Pence's skills in center field are limited, and he doesn't have the arm to play right field, and Lee is signed for the foreseeable future in left field, what might the Astros be able to get for a 24-year-old hair-on-fire rookie with six years of abitration eligibility remaining? Could they flip him for similarly young and promising players at positions where they might have a better fit?

Or am I way off base here?

[MusicMan]

I don't think you're off base, but I do think you're looking at a PR nightmare.

I personally think you can live with him in CF if you have a plus-plus arm in RF to keep runners honest.  But that's just my half-assed projection of his development as a CF.

[Noe]

Much of what he does, IMO, will depend on whether they push to contend for the central this year or attempt to reload for next.  I won't go further because that would involve what I'd do and that isn't important.  The next 30 days will be very entertaining.

Yup, very true.  However, since the framework for this discussion was who was a tradeable commodity and it is widely known that Detroit covetted Scott this offseason (and offered Houston Marcus Thames at the time to try and convince Purpura that he would lose nothing in his insurance for Lane), it maybe can have legs to stand up again.  Purpura has often said that he will revisit trade talks made in the offseason to see where the other team might stand.  I like what MM said about Scott+reliever (Qualls) for a prospect CF.

Works for me!  But what do I know?  Nothing, that's what!

[Foghorn]

Much of what he does, IMO, will depend on whether they push to contend for the central this year or attempt to reload for next.  I won't go further because that would involve what I'd do and that isn't important.  The next 30 days will be very entertaining.

You gotta reload.  The worst thing to do is to stay in no man's land and get nothing for Lamb, Loretta and Jennings.  This is/was a winnable division.  The bully turning to shit and the bad offensive first half of Berkman/Scott/Ensberg/Everett has killed this season.

But there are playoff teams that could use guys like Lamb and Loretta and Jennings.  The Hun consistantly made under the radar trades that worked out well for the Astros (Hudek for C4, ? for Wheeler, Ginter for Loretta and so forth).  Time for Purp to do the same.

[jbm]

This may be a ridiculous question, but if Pence's skills in center field are limited, and he doesn't have the arm to play right field, and Lee is signed for the foreseeable future in left field, what might the Astros be able to get for a 24-year-old hair-on-fire rookie with six years of abitration eligibility remaining? Could they flip him for similarly young and promising players at positions where they might have a better fit?

Or am I way off base here?

I haven't followed Lee's career much at all; has he ever played first?   It would open up an option for Pence in left.  

[Jacksonian]

Yup, very true.  However, since the framework for this discussion was who was a tradeable commodity and it is widely known that Detroit covetted Scott this offseason (and offered Houston Marcus Thames at the time to try and convince Purpura that he would lose nothing in his insurance for Lane), it maybe can have legs to stand up again.  Purpura has often said that he will revisit trade talks made in the offseason to see where the other team might stand.  I like what MM said about Scott+reliever (Qualls) for a prospect CF.

Works for me!  But what do I know?  Nothing, that's what!

Was their interest in Scott before or after their acquisition of Sheffield?

[Jacksonian]

You gotta reload.  

It ain't me.  It's Drayton.

The Astros have a number of players they might interest of teams if the intent is to bail on this season.

And, the deals for Hudek and Wheeler were blind ass luck.

[Noe]

This may be a ridiculous question, but if Pence's skills in center field are limited, and he doesn't have the arm to play right field, and Lee is signed for the foreseeable future in left field, what might the Astros be able to get for a 24-year-old hair-on-fire rookie with six years of abitration eligibility remaining? Could they flip him for similarly young and promising players at positions where they might have a better fit?

Or am I way off base here?

I wouldn't.  Guys who can hit in the majors and are young are guys you never get rid of.  You find a position for them.  1st base if he's just not going to cut it as an outfielder or RF/LF if you can make other moves in the future, like trade C. Lee because you have a viable candidate in the AL that wants a bat in a bad way and you can replace Lee's bat in the lineup.

Things happen that change the landscape of what your team ultimately becomes, but you can pretty much dictate who your foundational guys are: Oswalt, Berkman, Pence, Lidge (yes, I said it) and maybe Patton in the near future.  That would be my list.  C. Lee would be on the list but written in pencil.

[Arky Vaughan]

I haven't followed Lee's career much at all; has he ever played first?   It would open up an option for Pence in left.  

If that were the case, you could just put Pence at first. But are you proposing moving Berkman to right, knee and all?

[Arky Vaughan]

I wouldn't.  Guys who can hit in the majors and are young are guys you never get rid of.  You find a position for them.  1st base if he's just not going to cut it as an outfielder or RF/LF if you can make other moves in the future, like trade C. Lee because you have a viable candidate in the AL that wants a bat in a bad way and you can replace Lee's bat in the lineup.

Things happen that change the landscape of what your team ultimately becomes, but you can pretty much dictate who your foundational guys are: Oswalt, Berkman, Pence, Lidge (yes, I said it) and maybe Patton in the near future.  That would be my list.  C. Lee would be on the list but written in pencil.

I wonder whether Lidge, regardless of whether he stays recovered, becomes expendable as he approaches free agency. I guess they signed Wagner to a free-agent deal and traded him before it ended. They could do the same with Lidge.

If you move Pence (or Lee) to first, should Berkman go into the outfield?

[Noe]

Was their interest in Scott before or after their acquisition of Sheffield?

After as I understood.  They felt Thames pretty much was redundant with Sheffield on-board.  They didn't feel they had the right mix of lefty hitters, especially that could play outfield defense.  If Sheff were a DH, Luke would play left.  If Sheff played left, Luke would be a late inning replacement with lefty bat power to boot.

Who know what they are thinking now, but I bet Purpura revisited their interest just to find out.

[Noe]

I wonder whether Lidge, regardless of whether he stays recovered, becomes expendable as he approaches free agency. I guess they signed Wagner to a free-agent deal and traded him before it ended. They could do the same with Lidge.

If you move Pence (or Lee) to first, should Berkman go into the outfield?

I'd try Pence in right for a while before anything else (I thought I said this already?).  And I would try to trade C. Lee to the AL and get back some pitching if I could much later, like next season or the one after that.  But you're asking me isolated questions here.  I would trade Scott right now to Detroit along with Qualls (and insert Matt Albers in the pen for the short term) and get Maybin.  Use Lane as a CF or RF if you don't want to move Pence.  That would allow them to finish off this season looking at kids for a good long while.

Next season (meaning you start in the offseason), you look long and hard at your configuration for the long haul.  You look at trades for guys like C. Lee if possible, if not, then you move on with Plan B or whatev.  Tim Purpura doesn't need me to give him my whack opinions any way, but he's not without options at all here.

[Jacksonian]

After as I understood.  They felt Thames pretty much was redundant with Sheffield on-board.  They didn't feel they had the right mix of lefty hitters, especially that could play outfield defense.  If Sheff were a DH, Luke would play left.  If Sheff played left, Luke would be a late inning replacement with lefty bat power to boot.

Who know what they are thinking now, but I bet Purpura revisited their interest just to find out.

I don't see why Purp would be interested in Thames.

Scott might be a bit of an upgrade over Monroe in left for them so there may be some interest.  If so then it comes down to the art of the deal IF Purp is willing to deal Scott.

[pravata]

I'd try Pence in right for a while before anything else (I thought I said this already?).  And I would try to trade C. Lee to the AL and get back some pitching if I could much later, like next season or the one after that.  But you're asking me isolated questions here.  I would trade Scott right now to Detroit along with Qualls (and insert Matt Albers in the pen for the short term) and get Maybin.  Use Lane as a CF or RF if you don't want to move Pence.  That would allow them to finish off this season looking at kids for a good long while.

Next season (meaning you start in the offseason), you look long and hard at your configuration for the long haul.  You look at trades for guys like C. Lee if possible, if not, then you move on with Plan B or whatev.

Trade Lee?  You think he's seen enough of Houston?  He turned down SF.  He's got a no trade for 4 years.  He's doing exactly what Mclane wants him to; the Caballitos are his wildest dream.  No, try plan B.

[Jacksonian]

I'd try Pence in right for a while before anything else (I thought I said this already?).  And I would try to trade C. Lee to the AL and get back some pitching if I could much later, like next season or the one after that.  But you're asking me isolated questions here.  I would trade Scott right now to Detroit along with Qualls (and insert Matt Albers in the pen for the short term) and get Maybin.  Use Lane as a CF or RF if you don't want to move Pence.  That would allow them to finish off this season looking at kids for a good long while.

Next season (meaning you start in the offseason), you look long and hard at your configuration for the long haul.  You look at trades for guys like C. Lee if possible, if not, then you move on with Plan B or whatev.  Tim Purpura doesn't need me to give him my whack opinions any way, but he's not without options at all here.

All of this, everything, is completely dependent on whether or not Drayton insists on trying to win this year.  I have not read or heard a statement from him recently addressing it.

[Noe]

Trade Lee?  You think he's seen enough of Houston?  He turned down SF.  He's got a no trade for 4 years.  He's doing exactly what Mclane wants him to; the Caballitos are his wildest dream.  No, try plan B.

Well, truth be told, I don't say "trade Lee!" as if it doesn't have it's limitations.  Many things would have to happen for that to come true, on both sides.  But suffice it to say, Joaquin is right when he says: junebero!  (meaning that many things can happen between now and then... whatever the "then" may mean).

It boils down to this for me: Hunter Pence does not have to be a CF to play for the Houston Astros.  Period.

[pravata]

Well, truth be told, I don't say "trade Lee!" as if it doesn't have it's limitations.  Many things would have to happen for that to come true, on both sides.  But suffice it to say, Joaquin is right when he says: junebero!  (meaning that many things can happen between now and then... whatever the "then" may mean).

It boils down to this for me: Hunter Pence does not have to be a CF to play for the Houston Astros.  Period.

Hopefully not at all.  But I think that Lee, Oswalt, Berkman, are the immovables.

[SeanBergmanRules]

Trade Lee?  You think he's seen enough of Houston?  He turned down SF.  He's got a no trade for 4 years.  He's doing exactly what Mclane wants him to; the Caballitos are his wildest dream.  No, try plan B.

I also believe that the majority of AL teams that would be interested in Lee have state income taxes, to a varying degree.  Lee could forfeit anywhere from a few hundred thousand to a million dollars a year if he was traded.

[JimR]

Hopefully not at all.  But I think that Lee, Oswalt, Berkman, are the immovables.

the Astros aren't trading Lee.

[Fredia]

the Astros aren't trading Lee.

has he been in the leagues long enough to have a no trade or has to agree to trade clause?

[Limey]

Hopefully not at all.  But I think that Lee, Oswalt, Berkman, are the immovables.

I think that's unfair on Oswalt, but I agree that Berkman and Lee are almost immobile.

[Limey]

has he been in the leagues long enough to have a no trade or has to agree to trade clause?

Believe he's now a veteran in the midst of a long term contract.  That means he can opt out of it at the end of any season in which he's traded.

ETA:  he also has a full no-trade clause, which he'd have to waive.

[MusicMan]

Believe he's now a veteran in the midst of a long term contract.  That means he can opt out of it at the end of any season in which he's traded.

ETA:  he also has a full no-trade clause, which he'd have to waive.

Only the no-trade clause is effective.  The last CBA took out the opt-out provision.

[Arky Vaughan]

Believe he's now a veteran in the midst of a long term contract.  That means he can opt out of it at the end of any season in which he's traded.

ETA:  he also has a full no-trade clause, which he'd have to waive.

He's also signed for umpty-million dollars, so the number of takers might be limited.

I agree with Jim. He's staying put.

[jbm]

He's also signed for umpty-million dollars, so the number of takers might be limited.

I agree with Jim. He's staying put.

So with Berkman and Lee having no-trade clauses, and the likelihood that Pence will not be traded, TP doesn't have a lot of options.  If he doesn't want Berkman permanently in right, the options are even fewer.  If Lee can't play right, then Pence is in center or right. 

TP's left with making the most out of two options:  Pence in center and someone in right or Pence in right and someone in center.

[Taras Bulba]

So with Berkman and Lee having no-trade clauses, and the likelihood that Pence will not be traded, TP doesn't have a lot of options.  If he doesn't want Berkman permanently in right, the options are even fewer.  If Lee can't play right, then Pence is in center or right. 

TP's left with making the most out of two options:  Pence in center and someone in right or Pence in right and someone in center.

I am almost always surprised at what GMs actually do when they pull the trigger.  It's likely that whatever trade and resulting lineup alignment that follows won't be the one that anyone saw coming.

[pravata]

has he been in the leagues long enough to have a no trade or has to agree to trade clause?

Lee has negotiated a 4 year no trade clause.  So the 5th year with the Astros, when he becomes a 5/10 player, he can be traded to anyone the Astros can pawn him off on.

[Noe]

So with Berkman and Lee having no-trade clauses, and the likelihood that Pence will not be traded, TP doesn't have a lot of options.  If he doesn't want Berkman permanently in right, the options are even fewer.  If Lee can't play right, then Pence is in center or right. 

TP's left with making the most out of two options:  Pence in center and someone in right or Pence in right and someone in center.

Nothing is impossible, but most certainly things can be more one-sided when you have limitations.  I'm not saying they *are* going to trade Lee tomorrow or the next day or the next year or the year after that.  I'm saying that a good GM will weigh his options and figure out the creative way to make things work.  Pence is not going to get traded under a scenario of he is odd man out is my main point and that seems to be lost in all this.

Leave it to me to muddy the waters.

[MusicMan]

Leave it to me to muddy the waters.

Peeing in the pool wasn't enough?