"caught stealing, pitcher to shortstop"

[ValpoCory]

What the hell is wrong with the Astros base runners recently?  Bagwell is rolling over in his proverbial baserunning grave.

Last night:
Top 3rd: Houston
- L. Berkman walked
- L. Berkman caught stealing, pitcher to shortstop

Mix in a pick off on Sunday
Bottom 6th: Houston
- C. Burke singled to left
- C. Burke picked off at first, pitcher to first

And on Saturday twice,
  Bottom 6th: Houston
- C. Lee singled to center
- C. Lee caught stealing, pitcher to first to shortstop

 Bottom 7th: Houston
- M. Loretta walked
- M. Loretta caught stealing, pitcher to first to second


The catcher never touched the ball on any of these.

[Gizzmonic]

I don't remember the Astros getting picked off this much, ever.  Here's one for the trivia/research gurus.  What season holds the record for most Astros picked off?

That would be tough to find out, wouldn't it, since pickoffs count as a caught stealing?

What the hell is wrong with the Astros base runners recently?  Bagwell is rolling over in his proverbial baserunning grave.

Last night:
Top 3rd: Houston
- L. Berkman walked
- L. Berkman caught stealing, pitcher to shortstop

Mix in a pick off on Sunday
Bottom 6th: Houston
- C. Burke singled to left
- C. Burke picked off at first, pitcher to first

And on Saturday twice,
  Bottom 6th: Houston
- C. Lee singled to center
- C. Lee caught stealing, pitcher to first to shortstop

 Bottom 7th: Houston
- M. Loretta walked
- M. Loretta caught stealing, pitcher to first to second


The catcher never touched the ball on any of these.

[Bench]

I don't remember the Astros getting picked off this much, ever.  Here's one for the trivia/research gurus.  What season holds the record for most Astros picked off?

That would be tough to find out, wouldn't it, since pickoffs count as a caught stealing?

I'm going to go with the easy answer: Glenn "Feets don't fail me now" Barker.

[Limey]

Lee "caught stealing" on Saturday doesn't even come close to describing how out he was.

[Houston]

That would be tough to find out, wouldn't it, since pickoffs count as a caught stealing?

A pickoff only count as caught stealing if the runner tries to advance to the next base. If he's picked off just diving back into the base, it's not a CS.

[ValpoCory]

A pickoff only count as caught stealing if the runner tries to advance to the next base.

And according to that line score, in that case, it's not a pickoff at all.  It's either a pick off or a caught stealing, depending on whether the runner goes for next base.

[Houston]

And according to that line score, in that case, it's not a pickoff at all.  It's either a pick off or a caught stealing, depending on whether the runner goes for next base.

If you're scoring (or even if you're alone), you'd have to make a special notation for a pickoff. It's sort of like a fielder's indifference. A scorebook doesn't have a place to make that.

[mihoba]

If you're scoring (or even if you're alone), you'd have to make a special notation for a pickoff. It's sort of like a fielder's indifference. A scorebook doesn't have a place to make that.

The runner gets a caught stealing, however the pitcher gets credit for a pickoff IIRC, or at least an assist.

[Houston]

The runner gets a caught stealing, however the pitcher gets credit for a pickoff IIRC, or at least an assist.

The pitcher gets an assist and the 1B gets the put-out (if the pickoff happens at first).

Here's the rule... the runners has to attempt to advance to the next base to be charged with a caught stealing. http://www.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

[Randy Watson]

I can't remember a team being as bad on the base paths as the Stros this year.  And it's not all due to lack of speed.  Bad decisions by players and the fact that Mansolino is the worst third base coach I have ever seen in my life.

[Noe]

I can't remember a team being as bad on the base paths as the Stros this year.  And it's not all due to lack of speed.  Bad decisions by players and the fact that Mansolino is the worst third base coach I have ever seen in my life.

It may also be philosophically what Garner preaches... although I have no way of knowing.  Sometimes managers will only have one sign: Don't go!  Some will also want to control when the running should happen, so they have multiple green light signs and a runner cannot do anything beyond what the manager will allow.  I suspect Garner is the type of manager who allows his players to run at thier own risk.

A philosophy that perhaps needs to be rethought given how badly they do that!

[Limey]

Sometimes managers will only have one sign: Don't go!

Dierker had only one sign:  "Wake me up for the 7th".

[MusicMan]

I can't remember a team being as bad on the base paths as the Stros this year.  And it's not all due to lack of speed.  Bad decisions by players and the fact that Mansolino is the worst third base coach I have ever seen in my life.

Mansolino has nothing on Dale Sveum when he was with the Red Sox.

[SeanBergmanRules]

Garner needs to make them play by little league coach pitch rules.  You can't leave the bag until the ball has been pitched.  Burke and Pence are the only people on this team that should ever try to steal a base.  Of course, given our horrific baserunning, we're still better at stealing bases than the Jakes (the only team in MLB we can say that about).

[JimR]

pickoffs are generally not a concern to someone who steals bases. it will happen. it is a concern only with those who are not stealing but still get picked off.

[Noe]

Garner needs to make them play by little league coach pitch rules.  You can't leave the bag until the ball has been pitched.  Burke and Pence are the only people on this team that should ever try to steal a base.  Of course, given our horrific baserunning, we're still better at stealing bases than the Jakes (the only team in MLB we can say that about).

And Bruntlett too.

[MusicMan]

Garner needs to make them play by little league coach pitch rules.  You can't leave the bag until the ball has been pitched.  Burke and Pence are the only people on this team that should ever try to steal a base.  Of course, given our horrific baserunning, we're still better at stealing bases than the Jakes (the only team in MLB we can say that about).

Lee's history has shown that he should be in this group.

Despite what everything we've seen has shown us.

[JimR]

Garner needs to make them play by little league coach pitch rules.  You can't leave the bag until the ball has been pitched.  Burke and Pence are the only people on this team that should ever try to steal a base.  Of course, given our horrific baserunning, we're still better at stealing bases than the Jakes (the only team in MLB we can say that about).

this is total nonsense. this team needs to start runners more, not less. 90 feet is as far as they go. they have to get 3 hits to score a run, and that is ridiculous.

[SeanBergmanRules]

Lee's history has shown that he should be in this group.

Despite what everything we've seen has shown us.

I thought about including him, but so far, every time he starts to move I hear the Benny Hill theme in the background.

[Gleek]

this is total nonsense. this team needs to start runners more, not less. 90 feet is as far as they go. they have to get 3 hits to score a run, and that is ridiculous.

I agree with this, i'd like to see more action on the 'paths out of those who can (burke, pence, brunt...ect.)  Its time to put more pressure on opposing defenses.

Comon Gar lets get some runners in motion!

[Gleek]

I thought about including him, but so far, every time he starts to move I hear the Benny Hill theme in the background.

I guess we should include Lee, didn't he steal something like nineteen bases last year?  He drags that tire kinda fast.

Anyway, i gotta ask, what is that thing? (your avatar) it looks like a giant, four-legged, booger colored dildo.

[Phil_in_CS]

pickoffs are generally not a concern to someone who steals bases. it will happen. it is a concern only with those who are not stealing but still get picked off.

ex: Lee, Berkman.

[JimR]

ex: Lee, Berkman.

Lee steals bases.

[Duke]

Lee steals bases.

So does Berkman. 

The base running doesn't bother me as much as the shoddy fielding.  Quite an adventure last night. I guess it don't matter so much if you stake the team to a 4 run lead and then go 3 and a third scoreless.

[JimR]

So does Berkman. 

no.

[JackAstro]

So does Berkman.

Berkman steals half as many bases per season as Lee over his career. Lee is successful 74% of the time, Berkman comes in at a robust 61%.