Ensberg's slide

[MusicMan]

Even if the man hadn't become a complete waste of a ballplayer; even if he knew how to swing the bat more than once a week; even if there were no other real third basemen in my entire system...

... that sliding into first shit last night was a DFA ofense in and of itself.

[JimR]

Even if the man hadn't become a complete waste of a ballplayer; even if he knew how to swing the bat more than once a week; even if there were no other real third basemen in my entire system...

... that sliding into first shit last night was a DFA ofense in and of itself.

not to me.

[Limey]

Even if the man hadn't become a complete waste of a ballplayer; even if he knew how to swing the bat more than once a week; even if there were no other real third basemen in my entire system...

... that sliding into first shit last night was a DFA ofense in and of itself.

I was gobsmacked.  If he stayed upright the throw might've hit him.  He also would've been moving faster.

What a dipshit!

[MusicMan]

He clears the path for the throw.
He gets there slower.
He is not avoiding a tag.

The slide into first has always been Exhibit A in "fake hustle" to me.

[JimR]

He clears the path for the throw.
He gets there slower.
He is not avoiding a tag.

The slide into first has always been Exhibit A in "fake hustle" to me.

not to me

[Limey]

not to me

Are you suggesting that sliding was better than running?

[Astroholic]

He clears the path for the throw.
He gets there slower.
He is not avoiding a tag.

The slide into first has always been Exhibit A in "fake hustle" to me.

I agree with everything except the 'fake hustle' part.

[JimR]

Are you suggesting that sliding was better than running?

i do not know. i did not have an angle sufficient to know if he could have blocked the throw. i very much disagree with the "fake hustle" part. i had lots of guys slide headfirst into bases and never tried to dissuade them from doing so. i never personally timed the two moves at first to see for myself which is faster.

[Limey]

i do not know. i did not have an angle sufficient to know if he could have blocked the throw. i very much disagree with the "fake hustle" part. i had lots of guys slide headfirst into bases and never tried to dissuade them from doing so. i never personally timed the two moves at first to see for myself which is faster.

I didn't think it was fake hustle, just badly misjudged hustle.  He was in the base path and the ball was only on the grass by about a foot.  If he'd stayed upright, I think the throw would've hit him because I don't remember Johnson having to stretch away from the base for it.

Ensberg had no idea what was happening behind him, but he could see that Johnson was staying on the bag.  He could see, therefore, that no tag was going to be made, so the slide was ill-advised to say the least.

[JimR]

I didn't think it was fake hustle, just badly misjudged hustle.  He was in the base path and the ball was only on the grass by about a foot.  If he'd stayed upright, I think the throw would've hit him because I don't remember Johnson having to stretch away from the base for it.

Ensberg had no idea what was happening behind him, but he could see that Johnson was staying on the bag.  He could see, therefore, that no tag was going to be made, so the slide was ill-advised to say the least.

maybe misguided hustle, as you say, but not false.

[mihoba]

I didn't think it was fake hustle, just badly misjudged hustle.  He was in the base path and the ball was only on the grass by about a foot.  If he'd stayed upright, I think the throw would've hit him because I don't remember Johnson having to stretch away from the base for it.

Ensberg had no idea what was happening behind him, but he could see that Johnson was staying on the bag.  He could see, therefore, that no tag was going to be made, so the slide was ill-advised to say the least.

I agree he took away any chance by sliding. Mo busted his ass down the line earlier in the game on a ground out, and he did so on the dink in question. Hustling is not his problem, his instincts in that game situation sucked. Completely boneheaded slide.

[Gizzmonic]

Isn't it true that you slow yourself down by diving into first?

If so, why would you ever do it unless there you were avoiding a tag?

Jim R has given us some valuable information already, but I'd like to hear from more baseball coaches.  What do you teach your players about sliding into first?

Even if the man hadn't become a complete waste of a ballplayer; even if he knew how to swing the bat more than once a week; even if there were no other real third basemen in my entire system...

... that sliding into first shit last night was a DFA ofense in and of itself.

[JimR]

Isn't it true that you slow yourself down by diving into first?

i do not know that this is true. i never tried to find out. perhaps i should have to be a good coach. headfirst slides are spur of the moment things, and i never had a problem with players doing it.

[T. J.]

i do not know. i did not have an angle sufficient to know if he could have blocked the throw. i very much disagree with the "fake hustle" part. i had lots of guys slide headfirst into bases and never tried to dissuade them from doing so. i never personally timed the two moves at first to see for myself which is faster.

You don't see sprinters diving across the line in a foot race, do you?

[JimR]

You don't see sprinters diving across the line in a foot race, do you?

yes, sometimes i have.

[Astroholic]

You don't see sprinters diving across the line in a foot race, do you?

You also don't see sand at the end of the race do you, or the sprinters wearing pants.

[MRaup]

Sliding headfirst, if done the right way, doesn't get you there any slower than running does. Take it from someone that utilized the head first slide a few times while playing real baseball, and then a few more times while playing softball with much less pleasant results... (Yeah, sliding head first in shorts = disaster)

[Astroholic]

Sliding headfirst, if done the right way, doesn't get you there any slower than running does. Take it from someone that utilized the head first slide a few times while playing real baseball, and then a few more times while playing softball with much less pleasant results... (Yeah, sliding head first in shorts = disaster)

And sliding head first in sprinter shorts/shirt on a track surface is stupid.

[Limey]

Sliding headfirst, if done the right way, doesn't get you there any slower than running does. Take it from someone that utilized the head first slide a few times while playing real baseball, and then a few more times while playing softball with much less pleasant results... (Yeah, sliding head first in shorts = disaster)

Irregardless of the speed, he's a major impediment to the throw if he stays erect.  No tag was coming because Johnson was still on the bag.  Bad choice to slide.

Of course, a better choice would've been to hit the ball further than the end of his penis.

[JimR]

Sliding headfirst, if done the right way, doesn't get you there any slower than running does. Take it from someone that utilized the head first slide a few times while playing real baseball, and then a few more times while playing softball with much less pleasant results... (Yeah, sliding head first in shorts = disaster)

i just never got into the tell players how to slide thing. the headfirst slide was fine by me ig guys wanted to do it, and i never got out the stopwatch at first to check out the "it is slower" criticism. most of my guys slid headfirst rarely at 1B but it happened.

[MusicMan]

Irregardless of the speed, he's a major impediment to the throw if he stays erect... Of course, a better choice would've been to hit the ball further than the end of his penis.

These types of segues are the stuff Double Super Secret Popes are made of.

[MRaup]

And sliding head first in sprinter shorts/shirt on a track surface is stupid.

I wouldn't know first hand, but that sounds correct.

[mihoba]

Sliding headfirst, if done the right way, doesn't get you there any slower than running does. Take it from someone that utilized the head first slide a few times while playing real baseball, and then a few more times while playing softball with much less pleasant results... (Yeah, sliding head first in shorts = disaster)

In my eyes, this isn't about whether or not sliding head first is slower, it's about how Mo cleared a path for the throw by sliding. The ball was right on the line, and if Mo stayed on the inside of the base path, the throw would have to go around him.

[MRaup]

Irregardless of the speed, he's a major impediment to the throw if he stays erect.  No tag was coming because Johnson was still on the bag.  Bad choice to slide.

Of course, a better choice would've been to hit the ball further than the end of his penis.

I agree. Sliding head first into 1st doesn't make a whole lot of sense in most cases anyway, unless the throw is wide of the bag.

MoBerg's slide was pretty pointless.

[T. J.]

Sliding headfirst, if done the right way, doesn't get you there any slower than running does. Take it from someone that utilized the head first slide a few times while playing real baseball, and then a few more times while playing softball with much less pleasant results... (Yeah, sliding head first in shorts = disaster)

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this.  The whole PURPOSE of a slide is to slow yourself down and stop at the bag.  Are you saying it wouldn't be faster (if allowed) to run through second base on a steal attempt? 

[MusicMan]

If you see the throw going high, I think it makes sense.

Of course, I have little-league-at-best experience, so I'm just hypothesizing.  (Or concluding?  Dammit, so confusing.)

[JimR]

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this.  The whole PURPOSE of a slide is to slow yourself down and stop at the bag.  Are you saying it wouldn't be faster (if allowed) to run through second base on a steal attempt? 

who gives a shit what you "buy?"

when you play, slide feetfirst every time. i won't give a shit about that either.

[MRaup]

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this.  The whole PURPOSE of a slide is to slow yourself down and stop at the bag.  Are you saying it wouldn't be faster (if allowed) to run through second base on a steal attempt? 

It depends on how you slide...

I usually employed the kamakazi slide, which involved launching myself forward using all my momentum and ending up laying pretty much on the base when drag stopped me.

Launching yourself early and sliding to a halt with just your hand on the base probably is slower.

[T. J.]

It depends on how you slide...

I usually employed the kamakazi slide, which involved launching myself forward using all my momentum and ending up laying pretty much on the base when drag stopped me.

Launching yourself early and sliding to a halt with just your hand on the base probably is slower.

We need to get those Mythbusters guys onto this.

[Astroholic]

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this.  The whole PURPOSE of a slide is to slow yourself down and stop at the bag.  Are you saying it wouldn't be faster (if allowed) to run through second base on a steal attempt? 

I am not saying it is faster or slower, I am saying you analogy to a sprinter was not a good one.  In this case it was the wrong play. 

[MRaup]

We need to get those Mythbusters guys onto this.

Think about it this way...

Would it be faster to take all your momentum and throw yourself forward at something, or to run and try and stop when you get to it?

[homer]

Think about it this way...

Would it be faster to take all your momentum and throw yourself forward at something, or to run and try and stop when you get to it?

Its first base. He doesn't have to stop.

[T. J.]

Think about it this way...

Would it be faster to take all your momentum and throw yourself forward at something, or to run and try and stop when you get to it?

But you don't have to stop at first base.  That's the point.  You can keep accelerating (or maintain speed) through the bag.

[MRaup]

Its first base. He doesn't have to stop.

Anyone arguing about sliding head first into first is retarded.

Running through the bag is a no doubter unless you're trying to avoid a tag at first instead of the force.

I'm talking more general sliding head first.

[MRaup]

I agree. Sliding head first into 1st doesn't make a whole lot of sense in most cases anyway, unless the throw is wide of the bag.

MoBerg's slide was pretty pointless.

TJ, read this.

I'm talking about other places than first. Moberg sliding head first into first was dumb.

Already said it.

[JGrave]

I am not saying it is faster or slower, I am saying you analogy to a sprinter was not a good one.  In this case it was the wrong play. 

I think it is a good analogy.  I don't see how a headfirst slide is faster.  You have to slow your momentum to begin the slide.  And, as you're in the middle of the slide, you slow down.  

Sliding headfirst at any other base is just fine but when given the opportunity to run through the bag, I do not understand how any ballplayer would think sliding would be a quicker way of getting to the bag.  

[homer]

Anyone arguing about sliding head first into first is retarded.

Running through the bag is a no doubter unless you're trying to avoid a tag at first instead of the force.

I'm talking more general sliding head first.

Then what the fuck are we talking about? Ensberg was sliding head first into first base.

[T. J.]

TJ, read this.

I'm talking about other places than first. Moberg sliding head first into first was dumb.

Already said it.

Gotcha. 

[MRaup]

Then what the fuck are we talking about? Ensberg was sliding head first into first base.

General head first sliding.

How anyone thinks sliding head first into first makes sense when its a force place is completely beyond me.

[Astroholic]

But you don't have to stop at first base.  That's the point.  You can keep accelerating (or maintain speed) through the bag.

This was your reply above:
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this.  The whole PURPOSE of a slide is to slow yourself down and stop at the bag.  Are you saying it wouldn't be faster (if allowed) to run through second base on a steal attempt?

There are different types of slides.  Slides into second are the slow down slides because you have to stop at the base.  Slides into first (momentum slides as Mark Points out) are different, in that you don't have to necessarily stop at the bag.  I still don't know or care what is the fastest way to the bag, I do know that it was the wrong play in this case.  I also know I am done with this 'discussion'.

[Jacksonian]

General head first sliding.

How anyone thinks sliding head first into first makes sense when its a force place is completely beyond me.

The Astros forbid it of all their minor leaguers and will immediately remove from a game any player doing so.

[MRaup]

This was your reply above:
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this.  The whole PURPOSE of a slide is to slow yourself down and stop at the bag.  Are you saying it wouldn't be faster (if allowed) to run through second base on a steal attempt?

There are different types of slides.  Slides into second are the slow down slides because you have to stop at the base.  Slides into first (momentum slides as Mark Points out) are different, in that you don't have to necessarily stop at the bag.  I still don't know or care what is the fastest way to the bag, I do know that it was the wrong play in this case.  I also know I am done with this 'discussion'.

There was some severe dead horse beating going on without anyone really realizing it.

I can say, from my personal experience, when sliding head first in to whatever base I was sliding in to, I felt like I could get there just as fast crash and burning into the base as I could running and stopping at it. My slides were more charging as fast as I could then getting low and launching myself forward mid-stride. Think Eric Byrnes?

Granted, I wasn't paticularly swift at any point in my baseball playing career, but I certainly could manage my momentum to make me move faster when leaning/launching myself forward.
Or at least thought I could.

[Astroholic]

The Astros forbid it of all their minor leaguers and will immediately remove from a game any player doing so.

That is the C. Hernandez rule right?

[toddthebod]

Not to say that the Mets organization are full of geniuses, but I remember reading a couple of years ago that they worked with their minor league players so that no one would slide headfirst into first base.  I think that they believed that it was slower.  They also thought that it resulted in injuries and so wanted to discourage the practice.

[Jacksonian]

That is the C. Hernandez rule right?

Ha. Nope.  Head first slide is what I was referring to.  Increased injury risk and generally bad habit are 2 of the biggest rationales.

[MRaup]

Ha. Nope.  Head first slide is what I was referring to.  Increased injury risk and generally bad habit are 2 of the biggest rationales.

If nothing else, it leads to some embarrassing to explain strawberries in odd locations.

[Astroholic]

There was some severe dead horse beating going on without anyone really realizing it.

I can say, from my personal experience, when sliding head first in to whatever base I was sliding in to, I felt like I could get there just as fast crash and burning into the base as I could running and stopping at it. My slides were more charging as fast as I could then getting low and launching myself forward mid-stride. Think Eric Byrnes?

Granted, I wasn't paticularly swift at any point in my baseball playing career, but I certainly could manage my momentum to make me move faster when leaning/launching myself forward.
Or at least thought I could.

BTW, Mark I forgot to tell you that Speck Downtown Houston did not have your Natural Bohemian.

[MRaup]

BTW, Mark I forgot to tell you that Speck Downtown Houston did not have your Natural Bohemian.

Oh well. My buddy Scotty will just have to drink Shiner Product I suppose.

[Astroholic]

Oh well. My buddy Scotty will just have to drink Shiner Product I suppose.

could be worse...alot worse.

[MRaup]

could be worse...alot worse.

Check the batteries on your sarcas-o-meter...

[Astroholic]

Check the batteries on your sarcas-o-meter...

Oh, I used those batteries in my....oh nevermind.

[Jacksonian]

BTW, Mark I forgot to tell you that Speck Downtown Houston did not have your Natural Bohemian.

When I first read this I thought Mark was looking for unshaven Houston hookers.

[Astroholic]

When I first read this I thought Mark was looking for unshaven Houston hookers.

callem what you will.

[MRaup]

When I first read this I thought Mark was looking for unshaven Houston hookers.

I'm not NOT looking or unshaven Houston hookers!

[Limey]

I'm not NOT looking or unshaven Houston hookers!

The bushier the better...right?

[HudsonHawk]

He clears the path for the throw.
He gets there slower.
He is not avoiding a tag.

The slide into first has always been Exhibit A in "fake hustle" to me.

I don't think it's fake hustle, but it's a given fact that it's faster to run through the bag.  One of the purposes of sliding is to slow you down.  As for clearing a path, if he's running in the basepath and the ball hits him, he's out anyway.  The only reason to slide at 1B is to avoid a tag.  Perhaps he thought he was going to be tagged.

[Limey]

As for clearing a path, if he's running in the basepath and the ball hits him, he's out anyway.

Woah!  This is a one-eighty from what I understood.  I thought he was ok in the path, where he has to run or he's out anyway, and it's up to the defense to make a play around him.

[MRaup]

Woah!  This is a one-eighty from what I understood.  I thought he was ok in the path, where he has to run or he's out anyway, and it's up to the defense to make a play around him.

You have to be on the outside of the foul line to not be called out for interference.

[Bench]

Woah!  This is a one-eighty from what I understood.  I thought he was ok in the path, where he has to run or he's out anyway, and it's up to the defense to make a play around him.

Yeah. If he's in the fair territory portion of the basepath, he would be out. If he is in the foul territory portion of the basepath, he would be safe.

[Limey]

Yeah. If he's in the fair territory portion of the basepath, he would be out. If he is in the foul territory portion of the basepath, he would be safe.

Rule 7.08(b), 7.09(L). If a thrown ball hits a runner while running the bases, the runner is not out unless the umpire judges that the runner intentionally interfered, obstructed, hindered or confused the defense attempting to make a play.

[JimR]

I don't think it's fake hustle, but it's a given fact that it's faster to run through the bag.  One of the purposes of sliding is to slow you down.  As for clearing a path, if he's running in the basepath and the ball hits him, he's out anyway.  The only reason to slide at 1B is to avoid a tag.  Perhaps he thought he was going to be tagged.

if he is inside the running box/lane, he is not out. he is if he is outside that box, which they are when they run slightly inside the foul line.

not a given fact to me. i never checked it with a stopwatch.

[HudsonHawk]

if he is inside the running box/lane, he is not out. he is if he is outside that box, which they are when they run slightly inside the foul line.

Right.  If he's inside the baseline and interferes with the throw, he's out.  Of course, last night, the play wasn't really all that close anyway. 

not a given fact to me. i never checked it with a stopwatch.

I have.  Or have been a part of stopwatch tests anyway.  It's always faster to run than to slide.  As for sliding in general, I never cared for a headfirst slide, as I always thought it was more dangerous, but that could be just me.  No opinion on whether head first or feet first is faster.

[JimR]

Right.  If he's inside the baseline and interferes with the throw, he's out.  Of course, last night, the play wasn't really all that close anyway. 


I have.  Or have been a part of stopwatch tests anyway.  It's always faster to run than to slide.  As for sliding in general, I never cared for a headfirst slide, as I always thought it was more dangerous, but that could be just me.  No opinion on whether head first or feet first is faster.

i was coached as a pitcher to hit the guy square in the back if he was running inside the baseline. i did it a couple of times, but you always take the chance that the umpire is not paying attention or does not know the rule.

[HudsonHawk]

And sliding head first in sprinter shorts/shirt on a track surface is stupid.

Sprinters are not analagous anyway, as the finish line extends vertically.  The base does not.  Not only do you have to reach the verticle plane of a base, you have to reach that spot on the ground.  It's a question of whether it's quicker to reach out and touch a spot on the ground with your foot or to bend down and touch the same spot with your hand.

[pravata]

Right.  If he's inside the baseline and interferes with the throw, he's out.  Of course, last night, the play wasn't really all that close anyway. 


I have.  Or have been a part of stopwatch tests anyway.  It's always faster to run than to slide.  As for sliding in general, I never cared for a headfirst slide, as I always thought it was more dangerous, but that could be just me.  No opinion on whether head first or feet first is faster.

I would always pop off the bag sliding feet first.  Hands first I could grab the bag.  Never had a jammed finger or got stepped on.  Just don't ask me about trying to stiff arm on a cut back inside the tackle.

[HudsonHawk]

i was coached as a pitcher to hit the guy square in the back if he was running inside the baseline. i did it a couple of times, but you always take the chance that the umpire is not paying attention or does not know the rule.

I think the catcher last night was far enough away from the line that Ensberg wasn't in the way.  But as a catcher, I was always taught on a bounced third strike for example, to take several steps inside the line to get a better angle.

[MRaup]

I think the catcher last night was far enough away from the line that Ensberg wasn't in the way.  But as a catcher, I was always taught on a bounced third strike for example, to take several steps inside the line to get a better angle.

Some coach always told our catchers to take a few steps in whichever direction the ball was from the fine before making the throw.

[JimR]

I think the catcher last night was far enough away from the line that Ensberg wasn't in the way.  But as a catcher, I was always taught on a bounced third strike for example, to take several steps inside the line to get a better angle.

yes, i coached mine to do that too. the pitcher/catcher hitting the runner deliberately is something that should be done only if there is not time to make a normal play.

[Taras Bulba]

I think the catcher last night was far enough away from the line that Ensberg wasn't in the way.  But as a catcher, I was always taught on a bounced third strike for example, to take several steps inside the line to get a better angle.

Watching Ausmus do that is impressive.  Effortless.

[JimR]

Some coach always told our catchers to take a few steps in whichever direction the ball was from the fine before making the throw.

right, and the 1B adjusts his position at the bag to make the throw either "inside" or "outside." i suppose y'all yelled that to each other, too.

[pravata]

Watching Ausmus do that is impressive.  Effortless.

A's catcher was nervous

The A's got some splendid defensive work, starting with Suzuki's slick play on Morgan Ensberg's dribbler down the first-base line with the bases loaded in the 10th; he had to jump out fast, pick up the ball and fire to first without hesitation. Suzuki made a similar play the following inning on Chris Burke.

"They were both tough and I was kind of nervous,'' said Suzuki, who was called up Sunday. "Especially the first one, the bases were loaded and I didn't want to mess up.''
Link

[MRaup]

right, and the 1B adjusts his position at the bag to make the throw either "inside" or "outside." i suppose y'all yelled that to each other, too.

Yup.

[HudsonHawk]

right, and the 1B adjusts his position at the bag to make the throw either "inside" or "outside." i suppose y'all yelled that to each other, too.

Oh yeah.  You wanted to throw either inside or outside, depending on which side of the line the catcher was on.  You don't want to throw *across* the line.  I helps when your catcher and 1B man both have a clue.

[JimR]

Yup.

ah, inside baseball at no extra charge. of course, we're probably boring a few folks.

[mihoba]

A's catcher was nervous

The A's got some splendid defensive work, starting with Suzuki's slick play on Morgan Ensberg's dribbler down the first-base line with the bases loaded in the 10th; he had to jump out fast, pick up the ball and fire to first without hesitation. Suzuki made a similar play the following inning on Chris Burke.

"They were both tough and I was kind of nervous,'' said Suzuki, who was called up Sunday. "Especially the first one, the bases were loaded and I didn't want to mess up.''
Link

Suzuki was making his ML defensive debut in that inning as mentioned in the recap. Make him work for it Mo, don't slide and make it an easy throw.

[HudsonHawk]

A's catcher was nervous

The A's got some splendid defensive work, starting with Suzuki's slick play on Morgan Ensberg's dribbler down the first-base line with the bases loaded in the 10th; he had to jump out fast, pick up the ball and fire to first without hesitation. Suzuki made a similar play the following inning on Chris Burke.

"They were both tough and I was kind of nervous,'' said Suzuki, who was called up Sunday. "Especially the first one, the bases were loaded and I didn't want to mess up.''
Link

I'm sure he didn't want to screw it up, but that's a routine play for a catcher.  You practice that all the time.

[JimR]

Oh yeah.  You wanted to throw either inside or outside, depending on which side of the line the catcher was on.  You don't want to throw *across* the line.  I helps when your catcher and 1B man both have a clue.

our guys yelled "inside" or "outside" to each other so they would be on the same page.

the 1B was supposed to follow the catcher's path to the ball and then set up on the correct side of the line.

[davek]

ah, inside baseball at no extra charge. of course, we're probably boring a few folks.

Fundamentals will always bore some folks...  But even in the TalkZone I'll wager there were some that didn't know you have to run outside the baseline to first...

[Limey]

Fundamentals will always bore some folks...  But even in the TalkZone I'll wager there were some that didn't know you have to run outside the baseline to first...

I suspect that baseline and basepath are often thought of as being one and the same.  Which they're not.

Bonus geekery:
(1) You can be called out for interference if hit by a thrown ball even if you are in the running path.
(2) You can be called safe if hit by a thrown ball even if you are out of the running path.
It all comes down to intent...

Double Bonus Geekery:
There has to be a throw for there to be interference.  If you zig-zig up the line, flailing your arms and legs wildly, and the fielder doesn't throw, there's no interference.  Remember this next time you see Biggio take one of his parabolic routes from the plate to 1st.

[Rammer33]

Sliding into first is slower and should rarely if ever be done however it can help to sell a call (although that is a weak reason to do it)

[Noe]

I suspect that baseline and basepath are often thought of as being one and the same.  Which they're not.

Bonus geekery:
(1) You can be called out for interference if hit by a thrown ball even if you are in the running path.
(2) You can be called safe if hit by a thrown ball even if you are out of the running path.

Charlie Williams, one time umpire fired for incompetence and for being just an outright asshole too, was infamous for calling a runner out if the ball hit them on a throw.  Didn't matter where the runner was going, first, second, third, home... didn't matter.  Didn't matter if you ran on the baseline or basepath to said bases, if the ball hit you... Ol' Charlie would call you out and then if you questioned him, he would toss you out.

Worse umpire I've ever seen work a game, not matter where he umpired.  But the calls on runners was always an adventure with Williams.  So now we have Angel Hernandez to take his place, although I suspect Angel at least knows not to call a runner out just because a thrown ball hit him.

I think.  I hope so.

[JimR]

Sliding into first is slower and should rarely if ever be done however it can help to sell a call (although that is a weak reason to do it)

did someone ask you something? did you notice the discussion had moved well past this?

slide feetfirst in all your games. that's fine with me. ok to slide headfirst, too.

[austro]

So here's a semi-related question: how common is it for people to be able to slide on either side, i.e., right foot first or left foot first? I could only slide on my left side (leading with my right foot). No matter how much I tried, I was a total disaster trying to slide on the opposite side. Imagine Carlos Lee taking a divot the other night trying to field that looper.  I hated facing the throw from the catcher, but I couldn't make it work the other way.

[JimR]

So here's a semi-related question: how common is it for people to be able to slide on either side, i.e., right foot first or left foot first? I could only slide on my left side (leading with my right foot). No matter how much I tried, I was a total disaster trying to slide on the opposite side. Imagine Carlos Lee taking a divot the other night trying to field that looper.  I hated facing the throw from the catcher, but I couldn't make it work the other way.

i never could slide on both. dunno what the norm is.

[Limey]

So here's a semi-related question: how common is it for people to be able to slide on either side, i.e., right foot first or left foot first? I could only slide on my left side (leading with my right foot). No matter how much I tried, I was a total disaster trying to slide on the opposite side. Imagine Carlos Lee taking a divot the other night trying to field that looper.  I hated facing the throw from the catcher, but I couldn't make it work the other way.

Dunno about base-sliding, but I could slide tackle either way when playing soccer.  I was better when sliding on the left side and tackling with the right (i.e. I would more often than not keep the ball); the other way around was more of a hack at the ball to knock it away.

[Noe]

So here's a semi-related question: how common is it for people to be able to slide on either side, i.e., right foot first or left foot first? I could only slide on my left side (leading with my right foot). No matter how much I tried, I was a total disaster trying to slide on the opposite side. Imagine Carlos Lee taking a divot the other night trying to field that looper.  I hated facing the throw from the catcher, but I couldn't make it work the other way.

Not uncommon at all, but most people have a preference.  It is how you tuck the other leg (to form a figure 4) that is important and sliding directly into the bag so you can easily touch it and pop up effectively.  The hook slide and other variations of sliding, including head first are unique but primarily (IMHO) for avoiding tags.  By in large, sliding to stop your momentum from overshooting a bag, use the pop-up slide (figure 4 slide) and be happy with the results if you do it right.

[HudsonHawk]

So here's a semi-related question: how common is it for people to be able to slide on either side, i.e., right foot first or left foot first? I could only slide on my left side (leading with my right foot). No matter how much I tried, I was a total disaster trying to slide on the opposite side. Imagine Carlos Lee taking a divot the other night trying to field that looper.  I hated facing the throw from the catcher, but I couldn't make it work the other way.

When you say which "side", I assume you mean which foot leads.  You don't slide on your side, you slide on your ass.  I think most competent major leaguers can lead with either.  It's something you practice.  I used to be able to lead with either foot on a straight slide, though I never could execute a hook slide any way other than leading with my left leg, right foot grabbing the base.  I suppose that may be an advantage of a head first slide, people are usually much more dextrous with their arms and hands than they are with their legs and feet.

[mihoba]

So here's a semi-related question: how common is it for people to be able to slide on either side, i.e., right foot first or left foot first? I could only slide on my left side (leading with my right foot). No matter how much I tried, I was a total disaster trying to slide on the opposite side. Imagine Carlos Lee taking a divot the other night trying to field that looper.  I hated facing the throw from the catcher, but I couldn't make it work the other way.

Same here. I have a permanent strawberry just below my knee on my left leg from sliding so damn much over the years. I never even considered trying the other way. Occasionally, if the throw/tag dictated it, I would avoid the tag with a headfirst slide, even pulling back one hand and reaching with the other. NTTAWWT. I've had many collisions with the catcher, too. If he's blocking the plate, it will be a train wreck.

Proper sliding is an art.

[Curly]

It depends on how you slide...

I usually employed the kamakazi slide, which involved launching myself forward using all my momentum and ending up laying pretty much on the base when drag stopped me.

Launching yourself early and sliding to a halt with just your hand on the base probably is slower.

  Most people call this technique "tripping over your own feet"

[Curly]

Without reading the multiple pages as I'm heading to the Exrpess game...did anyone see if Cheo was telling him to get down or run through?  I'll check back later.

[Rammer33]

did someone ask you something? did you notice the discussion had moved well past this?

actually I hadn't ... posted before i realized there were multiple pages ...  

[JimR]

actually I hadn't ... posted before i realized there were multiple pages ...  

everyone agreed that my Coaches Association card should be confiscated b/c i allowed my players to slide headfirst if they wanted. i'm looking for it.

[Rammer33]

everyone agreed that my Coaches Association card should be confiscated b/c i allowed my players to slide headfirst if they wanted. i'm looking for it.

never had a problem with someone diving into first because - 1) it rarely happened and 2) usually meant the kid was busting his tail down the line ...  plus I always thought it was a tougher call for some umps to make particularly those that rely on the sound of the stomp of the bag ... its not a good "reason to do it" but its a reason enough for me not to mind it ...

[JimR]

never had a problem with someone diving into first because - 1) it rarely happened and 2) usually meant the kid was busting his tail down the line ...  plus I always thought it was a tougher call for some umps to make particularly those that rely on the sound of the stomp of the bag ... its not a good "reason to do it" but its a reason enough for me not to mind it ...

me, too. it is an aggressive play, even if misguided. if my kids wanted to slide that way at any base, i let them. i did encourage them to run through first, however.