6 1/2

[Rebel Jew]

that's all this team is behind in the division right now.  six and one half games.  with the reds coming to town.

[Astroholic]

that's all this team is behind in the division right now.  six and one half games.

The division sucks.  I fully expect that the stros will be in this race until the last few days of the season.

[Mr. Happy]

The division sucks.  I fully expect that the stros will be in this race until the last few days of the season.

I don't throw in the towel until the math makes it impossible.

[Astroholic]

I don't throw in the towel until the math makes it impossible.

You contiue to suprise me with that shitty shinny attitude of yours.

[Noe]

The division sucks.  I fully expect that the stros will be in this race until the last few days of the season.

Last year, the St. Looie Jakes proved you can suck up until the last series of the year and still make the playoffs.  The Jakes literally were set to make history as the worse collapse in a division clinch since the Phillies.  They went from there to beat up the Dojers and then take the steMs by simply out-pitching them.

I won't really mind a suckitude of a division this year as last, because if Houston gets some pitching and the return of Berkman from the black hole he fell into, then they will have the same chance the Jakes did last year to win.  If Lidge, Wheeler and Qualls dominate the back end and Oswalt proves once again to be a down the stretch stud, all Houston will need is the aforementioned contributions to do just that.

[Astroholic]

Last year, the St. Looie Jakes proved you can suck up until the last series of the year and still make the playoffs.  The Jakes literally were set to make history as the worse collapse in a division clinch since the Phillies.  They went from there to beat up the Dojers and then take the steMs by simply out-pitching them.

I won't really mind a suckitude of a division this year as last, because if Houston gets some pitching and the return of Berkman from the black hole he fell into, then they will have the same chance the Jakes did last year to win.  If Lidge, Wheeler and Qualls dominate the back end and Oswalt proves once again to be a down the stretch stud, all Houston will need is the aforementioned contributions to do just that.

If the last three seasons proved anything, it is that you just can never give up on the stros until they make us go home.

[Noe]

If the last three seasons proved anything, it is that you just can never give up on the stros until they make us go home.

Nothing a return of Lance Berkman (one of the good guys they said would actually return... right?) and perhaps a #5 hitter (CF? RF?) acquire wouldn't fix.  I think they need one more starter myself, so that is a lot to get for the trading deadline.  It is as if Houston's need is to acquire a #3 hitter this deadline, someone like... say... oh.. Lance Berkman!  Yeah, that would totally rock!

[Astroholic]

Nothing a return of Lance Berkman (one of the good guys they said would actually return... right?) and perhaps a #5 acquire wouldn't fix.  I think they need one more starter myself, so that is a lot to get for the trading deadline.  It is as if Houston's need is to acquire a #3 hitter this deadline, someone like... say... oh.. Lance Berkman!  Yeah, that would totally rock!

The other starter could be, oh I don't know someone like the guy pitching tonight.  There is also this kid named Backe that could be a factor down the strech.

And who knows, maybe even Iceberg will heat up.

[homer]

Last year, the St. Looie Jakes proved you can suck up until the last series of the year and still make the playoffs.  The Jakes literally were set to make history as the worse collapse in a division clinch since the Phillies.  They went from there to beat up the Dojers and then take the steMs by simply out-pitching them.

The Jakes also had two 8 game losing streaks last year, and one 7 game losing streak.

[Froback]

The Jakes also had two 8 game losing streaks last year, and one 7 game losing streak.

I hope you don't mind, but I don't aspire to have the Astros be like the Jakes.

[MusicMan]

I hope you don't mind, but I don't aspire to have the Astros be like the Jakes.

Yeah, that world series win last year sucked for them.

[drew corleone]

If the last three seasons proved anything, it is that you just can never give up on the stros until they make us go home.

Just the last three? In 2003 they weren't eliminated from contention until the season's penultimate day.

[Astroholic]

Just the last three? In 2003 they weren't eliminated from contention until the season's penultimate day.

True. 

[Trey]

True. 

Yeah, but they were leading up until the last week or so IIRC.

[homer]

Yeah, but they were leading up until the last week or so IIRC.

Code: [Select]

155 Sun, Sep 21 box HOU @STL  L   4-6       84-71    1  up 0.5  3:07 S Hitchcock  J Robertson   41,397 --
156 Mon, Sep 22 box HOU  SFG  L   3-6       84-72    1    Tied  3:09 J Nathan     B Wagner      36,372 ---
157 Tue, Sep 23 box HOU  SFG  L   3-10      84-73    2     1.0  2:39 J Schmidt    W Miller      36,390 ----
158 Wed, Sep 24 box HOU  SFG  W   2-1       85-73    2     1.0  2:08 R Oswalt     S Ponson      31,525 +
159 Thu, Sep 25 box HOU  MIL  W   6-1       86-73    1    Tied  2:35 T Redding    D Davis       27,934 ++
160 Fri, Sep 26 box HOU  MIL  L   5-12      86-74    2     0.5  3:34 D Burba      J Robertson   37,259 -
161 Sat, Sep 27 box HOU  MIL  L   2-5       86-75    2     2.0  2:29 W Obermuelle R Villone     38,627 --
162 Sun, Sep 28 box HOU  MIL  W   8-5       87-75    2     1.0  2:32 R Stone      L Martinez    37,977 +

4 game skid between the Cards and the Gints...

[Astroholic]

Code: [Select]

155 Sun, Sep 21 box HOU @STL  L   4-6       84-71    1  up 0.5  3:07 S Hitchcock  J Robertson   41,397 --
156 Mon, Sep 22 box HOU  SFG  L   3-6       84-72    1    Tied  3:09 J Nathan     B Wagner      36,372 ---
157 Tue, Sep 23 box HOU  SFG  L   3-10      84-73    2     1.0  2:39 J Schmidt    W Miller      36,390 ----
158 Wed, Sep 24 box HOU  SFG  W   2-1       85-73    2     1.0  2:08 R Oswalt     S Ponson      31,525 +
159 Thu, Sep 25 box HOU  MIL  W   6-1       86-73    1    Tied  2:35 T Redding    D Davis       27,934 ++
160 Fri, Sep 26 box HOU  MIL  L   5-12      86-74    2     0.5  3:34 D Burba      J Robertson   37,259 -
161 Sat, Sep 27 box HOU  MIL  L   2-5       86-75    2     2.0  2:29 W Obermuelle R Villone     38,627 --
162 Sun, Sep 28 box HOU  MIL  W   8-5       87-75    2     1.0  2:32 R Stone      L Martinez    37,977 +

4 game skid between the Cards and the Gints...

Thanks for the reminder.

[TheWizard]

Backe could be a lift.  Even though our pitching hasn't been bad, to play captain obvious here - Woody seems to be more of a #4 starter at this point in his career.  I'm not sure if I'm expecting WAY too much out of Backe when/if he returns, especially considering his minor setback, but it can't hurt to dream.

[Limey]

Backe could be a lift.  Even though our pitching hasn't been bad, to play captain obvious here - Woody seems to be more of a #4 starter at this point in his career.  I'm not sure if I'm expecting WAY too much out of Backe when/if he returns, especially considering his minor setback, but it can't hurt to dream.

He'd be a valuable pinch hitting option.

[MusicMan]

He'd be a valuable right field option.

FIFY

[Noe]

Backe could be a lift.  Even though our pitching hasn't been bad, to play captain obvious here - Woody seems to be more of a #4 starter at this point in his career.  I'm not sure if I'm expecting WAY too much out of Backe when/if he returns, especially considering his minor setback, but it can't hurt to dream.

Iffin' I were playing manager for the team (and I'm not, but bear with me here), I'd rearrange my rotation as perhaps the following:

Oswalt
(new pitcher)
Jennings
Wandy/Backe
Woody

The reason for a readjust is that I would want to maximize the amount of times Woody is facing off with the other team's lower rung rotation guys.  Means the possiblity for more runs scored on his behalf and the use of the bullpen to preserve a high scoring win.

Just saying..

[Astroholic]

Iffin' I were playing manager for the team (and I'm not, but bear with me here), I'd rearrange my rotation as perhaps the following:

Oswalt
(new pitcher)
Jennings
Wandy/Backe
Woody

The reason for a readjust is that I would want to maximize the amount of times Woody is facing off with the other team's lower rung rotation guys.  Means the possiblity for more runs scored on his behalf and the use of the bullpen to preserve a high scoring win.

Just saying..

I hear ya, but who and what would this (new pitcher) guy cost?  A number 2 ain't cheap.

[Noe]

I hear ya, but who and what would this (new pitcher) guy cost?  A number 2 ain't cheap.

Absolutely.  Depends on the type of #2 they would want to acquire.  A guy who is in his walk year cost less than a guy who is tradeable but still under contract.  Dontrelle Willis fits the mold of what I'd look for, but admit I don't know what the contract status is for Mr. Willis and what the Fish would want to acquire for him.  Remember that the market is also dictated by what *other* teams are looking for.  If everyone is looking for a #2, then the cost skyrockets upward.

Remember that you can always get lucky and find a great addition to your rotation in the minors as well.  It is not far fetched to think lightning in a bottle could happen with a solid young arm coming up.

[MusicMan]

Troy Patton?

[Astroholic]

Absolutely.  Depends on the type of #2 they would want to acquire.  A guy who is in his walk year cost less than a guy who is tradeable but still under contract.  Dontrelle Willis fits the mold of what I'd look for, but admit I don't know what the contract status is for Mr. Willis and what the Fish would want to acquire for him.  Remember that the market is also dictated by what *other* teams are looking for.  If everyone is looking for a #2, then the cost skyrockets upward.

Remember that you can always get lucky and find a great addition to your rotation in the minors as well.  It is not far fetched to think lightning in a bottle could happen with a solid young arm coming up.

Patton?  How is his year going?  I would personally like to get D-Train, but I wonder what that might cost?  Do we have any 'talent' the fish would concider?  Iceberg and Lame don't have any value.  Would they be interested in Burke.  What about Lidge?  What would it take?



Sorry to repeat MM, I type too slow.

[Noe]

Troy Patton?

*Ding, Ding, Ding*  (*maybe even Juan Guiterrez even*)

[Noe]

Patton?  How is his year going?  I would personally like to get D-Train, but I wonder what that might cost?  Do we have any 'talent' the fish would concider?  Iceberg and Lame don't have any value.  Would they be interested in Burke.  What about Lidge?  What would it take?



Sorry to repeat MM, I type too slow.

The year that Randy Johnson was available, I had no idea that Houston was even in the mix.  The Cleveland Indians and New York Yankees were said to be the teams where he'd wind up.  Steinbrenner had put it out to his men that they were to do everything in their power to block the Indians from acquiring the Yankee-killer.  So that made the Indians tentative to make a trade knowing that they would have to rape their minor league system to get Johnson.  So Houston stepped in and at the very last second (right before the clock struck midnight), dealt away their best shortstop and pitching prospect (both AAA) and a PTBNL (Jon Halama, a serviceable #5 pitcher).

My guess is that a market like that of Unit in 98 for a Dontrelle Willis will mean a similar payout for anyone who wants him.   Meaning two top prospects and PTBNL.  Methinks Pence is out of the question, so is Burke (he is not necessary given they have Uggla).  So I would think Lane (PTBNL or equivilent), Patton and maybe Manzella or another pitcher (Guiterrez or Albers).  That is a very high price to pay.  In 1998 it made sense since the team was an ACE away from being the best team in baseball.

Now?  I dunno.

[Astroholic]

The year that Randy Johnson was available, I had no idea that Houston was even in the mix.  The Cleveland Indians and New York Yankees were said to be the teams where he'd wind up.  Steinbrenner had put it out to his men that they were to do everything in their power to block the Indians from acquiring the Yankee-killer.  So that made the Indians tentative to make a trade knowing that they would have to rape their minor league system to get Johnson.  So Houston stepped in and at the very last second (right before the clock struck midnight), dealt away their best shortstop and pitching prospect (both AAA) and a PTBNL (Jon Halama, a serviceable #5 pitcher).

My guess is that a market like that of Unit in 98 for a Dontrelle Willis will mean a similar payout for anyone who wants him.   Meaning two top prospects and PTBNL.  Methinks Pence is out of the question, so is Burke (he is not necessary given they have Uggla).  So I would think Lane (PTBNL or equivilent), Patton and maybe Manzella or another pitcher (Guiterrez or Albers).  That is a very high price to pay.  In 1998 it made sense since the team was an ACE away from being the best team in baseball.

Now?  I dunno.

That seems like a very steep price unless you can get Dontrelle to agree to a multi yr contract as part of the move.  It also appears that Dw is Draytons' type of player and get this he is Black!!!!!

[MusicMan]

The year that Randy Johnson was available, I had no idea that Houston was even in the mix.  The Cleveland Indians and New York Yankees were said to be the teams where he'd wind up.  Steinbrenner had put it out to his men that they were to do everything in their power to block the Indians from acquiring the Yankee-killer.  So that made the Indians tentative to make a trade knowing that they would have to rape their minor league system to get Johnson.  So Houston stepped in and at the very last second (right before the clock struck midnight), dealt away their best shortstop and pitching prospect (both AAA) and a PTBNL (Jon Halama, a serviceable #5 pitcher).

Aaahh... back when BBTN was still watchable.  That was a very cool night, hearing the initial reports that the Astros were jumping into the mix, Gammons providing updates about every 2 minutes as to who had made the latest offer... good times.

[JimR]

The year that Randy Johnson was available, I had no idea that Houston was even in the mix.  The Cleveland Indians and New York Yankees were said to be the teams where he'd wind up.  Steinbrenner had put it out to his men that they were to do everything in their power to block the Indians from acquiring the Yankee-killer.  So that made the Indians tentative to make a trade knowing that they would have to rape their minor league system to get Johnson.  So Houston stepped in and at the very last second (right before the clock struck midnight), dealt away their best shortstop and pitching prospect (both AAA) and a PTBNL (Jon Halama, a serviceable #5 pitcher).

My guess is that a market like that of Unit in 98 for a Dontrelle Willis will mean a similar payout for anyone who wants him.   Meaning two top prospects and PTBNL.  Methinks Pence is out of the question, so is Burke (he is not necessary given they have Uggla).  So I would think Lane (PTBNL or equivilent), Patton and maybe Manzella or another pitcher (Guiterrez or Albers).  That is a very high price to pay.  In 1998 it made sense since the team was an ACE away from being the best team in baseball.

Now?  I dunno.

i really, really doubt that Patton is available.

[Noe]

That seems like a very steep price unless you can get Dontrelle to agree to a multi yr contract as part of the move.  It also appears that Dw is Draytons' type of player and get this he is Black!!!!!

Plus he's a very good hitter.  Left handed and he can park a baseball at MMPUS easily.

[The Spleen]

Troy Patton?

...and probably two other prospects of that caliber.
Do the Astros even have two other prospects of that caliber?

[Astroholic]

...and probably two other prospects of that caliber.
Do the Astros even have two other prospects of that caliber?

Burke is probably close.

[MusicMan]

I would not do this for Dontrelle.  He's been giving up HR at an alarming rate the last year and a half.  You might just get a left handed, funky Woody Williams.

[MusicMan]

Burke is probably close.

You're a funny, funny guy.

[Astroholic]

You're a funny, funny guy.

Just thinking that he has value and has performed at the major league level, as much as a AA pitcher, don't know.  Okay it was a stretch.

[Noe]

I would not do this for Dontrelle.  He's been giving up HR at an alarming rate the last year and a half.  You might just get a left handed, funky Woody Williams.

Well then, his price may be lower then.  Which I think would be a good thing if Wallace could do something with him to keep him motivated and such.  Might be someone Purpura should pick up the phone about.  Plus this keeps Patton off the table.

[Astroholic]

Well then, his price may be lower then.  Which I think would be a good thing if Wallace could do something with him to keep him motivated and such.  Might be someone Purpura should pick up the phone about.

I would.

[Noe]

i really, really doubt that Patton is available.

I'm actually hopefully either Patton or Guiterrez progress nicely enough to really come up in late June, early July to make everything moot.  It is how, ironically, Dontrelle Willis made his debut into the majors.

[Astroholic]

I'm actually hopefully either Patton or Guiterrez progress nicely enough to really come up in late June, early July to make everything moot.  It is how, ironically, Dontrelle Willis made his debut into the majors.

That would be nice.  I was hoping Albers got hot and performed well.  Patton/Guiterrez would be nice, but they could also fail.  I would still call Florida if I was Purp and see how much it would cost me.

[Noe]

That would be nice.  I was hoping Albers got hot and performed well.  Patton/Guiterrez would be nice, but they could also fail.  I would still call Florida if I was Purp and see how much it would cost me.

Right, work those phones.  Purpura said on Sunday that he is *already* talking to several GMs about what they consider to be their own surplus and also what Houston is willing to talk about at this time.  I don't think, even if they are still struggling, that McLane will want to hear anything resembling a "rebuild" strategy this season.  He'll want to know from Purpura if there are certain players available that would be considered missing pieces.  For instance, some have said that Miguel Tejada would consider moving to third base if he were headed to Anaheim, who actually have a higher need for offense than the Astros, even though they are playing better baseball.  So I'm sure McLane will want to know from Smith and Purpura what, in their considered opinion, would be the holes that need plugging in and what can they do to get it done.

If the answer is to give Patton or Guiterrez a chance to pitch in the majors and solidify the rotation, then that is what he expects to hear from them.  If the answer is we need to trade for a #2, he's going to want names and what the cost is.  So it is what Purpura is doing now to evaluate the team as far as needs and aslo as far as viable solutions to present to McLane.

There is no idea to rebuild for the future as far as I can tell... only reload for the second half.

[Jacksonian]

I'm actually hopefully either Patton or Guiterrez progress nicely enough to really come up in late June, early July to make everything moot.  It is how, ironically, Dontrelle Willis made his debut into the majors.

Patton's been a bit inconsistent and not overly sharp to this point.  Gutierrez has been sharper overall.

[Noe]

Patton's been a bit inconsistent and not overly sharp to this point.  Gutierrez has been sharper overall.

Yup, Juan Guiterrez has been really good in AAA.  No run support, but that has made him a much better pitcher because he has to keep his team close in order to give them a chance to win.  He might be a sleeper to keep in mind in the next month or so.

[JimR]

Right, work those phones.  Purpura said on Sunday that he is *already* talking to several GMs about what they consider to be their own surplus and also what Houston is willing to talk about at this time.  I don't think, even if they are still struggling, that McLane will want to hear anything resembling a "rebuild" strategy this season.  He'll want to know from Purpura if there are certain players available that would be considered missing pieces.  For instance, some have said that Miguel Tejada would consider moving to third base if he were headed to Anaheim, who actually have a higher need for offense than the Astros, even though they are playing better baseball.  So I'm sure McLane will want to know from Smith and Purpura what, in their considered opinion, would be the holes that need plugging in and what can they do to get it done.

If the answer is to give Patton or Guiterrez a chance to pitch in the majors and solidify the rotation, then that is what he expects to hear from them.  If the answer is we need to trade for a #2, he's going to want names and what the cost is.  So it is what Purpura is doing now to evaluate the team as far as needs and aslo as far as viable solutions to present to McLane.

There is no idea to rebuild for the future as far as I can tell... only reload for the second half.

i hope this level of discussion is going on.

[Astroholic]

i hope this level of discussion is going on.

Me too.  I hope Purp is capable of having these discussions on a level playing field (to me the Jury is still out). I miss the Gerry!

[MusicMan]

i hope this level of discussion is going on.

If it is not, then Purpura should go.

[Noe]

i hope this level of discussion is going on.

What I've been able to piece together from information I've been told.  They're not panicking because of this latest swoon.  Berkman is a mystery right now, but suffice it to say, they can't replace him.  Well they can, but what they expect is to replace this mere shell of Berkman with the real thing... soon.  That will clear up the offense picture quickly for them.  If they need another hitter (or a solid bench player to allow Loretta or Lamb a starter's job if necessary), then they'll know once Lance is Lance again.

What I think they also want to explore is what to do to shore up the rotation because they're pretty confident with the bullpen (which they do not want to break up, contrary to beliefs from Fox Sports whack thinking and speculation on Saturday).  One more solid rotation guy puts Woody in the right slot and also allows Wandy to relax a little more.

[Astroholic]

What I've been able to piece together from information I've been told.  They're not panicking because of this latest swoon.  Berkman is a mystery right now, but suffice it to say, they can't replace him.  Well they can, but what they expect is to replace this mere shell of Berkman with the real thing... soon.  That will clear up the offense picture quickly for them.  If they need another hitter (or a solid bench player to allow Loretta or Lamb a starter's job if necessary), then they'll know once Lance is Lance again.

What I think they also want to explore is what to do to shore up the rotation because they're pretty confident with the bullpen (which they do not want to break up, contrary to beliefs from Fox Sports whack thinking and speculation on Saturday).  One more solid rotation guy puts Woody in the right slot and also allows Wandy to relax a little more.

And I noticed you don't have Sampson in your rotation.  I would rather he pitched every fifth than Woody/Wandy at this point.

[Jacksonian]

What I've been able to piece together from information I've been told.  They're not panicking because of this latest swoon.  Berkman is a mystery right now, but suffice it to say, they can't replace him.  Well they can, but what they expect is to replace this mere shell of Berkman with the real thing... soon.  That will clear up the offense picture quickly for them.  If they need another hitter (or a solid bench player to allow Loretta or Lamb a starter's job if necessary), then they'll know once Lance is Lance again.

What I think they also want to explore is what to do to shore up the rotation because they're pretty confident with the bullpen (which they do not want to break up, contrary to beliefs from Fox Sports whack thinking and speculation on Saturday).  One more solid rotation guy puts Woody in the right slot and also allows Wandy to relax a little more.

I hope they're looking for a leadoff hitter.

[Noe]

And I noticed you don't have Sampson in your rotation.  I would rather he pitched every fifth than Woody/Wandy at this point.

I was going to move Sampson to long reliever, but you're right, he's a much better option now than Wandy or Backe for sure.  What was I thinking?!?!  Any way, he was my Wandy and Woody insurance.  Oh, and Moehler would get released of course.

[Fredia]

Iffin' I were playing manager for the team (and I'm not, but bear with me here), I'd rearrange my rotation as perhaps the following:

Oswalt
(new pitcher)
Jennings
Wandy/Backe
Woody

The reason for a readjust is that I would want to maximize the amount of times Woody is facing off with the other team's lower rung rotation guys.  Means the possiblity for more runs scored on his behalf and the use of the bullpen to preserve a high scoring win.

Just saying..

and who might the new pitcher be. do you have a secret link to the bb gods?

[JimR]

and who might the new pitcher be. do you have a secret link to the bb gods?

go back and read the thread. there are clues there...like names.

[Noe]

and who might the new pitcher be. do you have a secret link to the bb gods?

Nope.  But I know Alkie and that's the next best thing!