Line Up

[Limey]

We talked a lot yesterday about how the Astros have problems getting a team on the field that can hit and fill all the defensive positions.  Then, last night, Garner comes up with a doozy.

I reiterate my position from Limey Time:  this club needs a serious overhaul of playing personnel because all of Gar's options right now have a sting in the tail.

[Taras Bulba]

We talked a lot yesterday about how the Astros have problems getting a team on the field that can hit and fill all the defensive positions.  Then, last night, Garner comes up with a doozy.

I reiterate my position from Limey Time:  this club needs a serious overhaul of playing personnel because all of Gar's options right now have a sting in the tail.

I'm not sure that Purpura would disagree with you--but what return would the club get for Ensberg/Lane/Burke,etc.?

[pravata]

I'm not sure that Purpura would disagree with you--but what return would the club get for Ensberg/Lane/Burke,etc.?

What you need and what you get are sometimes two different things. 

[BudGirl]

What you need and what you get are sometimes two different things. 

Sometimes?  More like usually.

I'm beginning to not like Purpura so much.  I think he holds on to players to long.  Burke should have been traded after the 2005 playoffs.  The talk of 3,000 was already in the air and Burke and the Astros should have parted ways at that time.

Ensberg is the one that bothers me.  I am beginning to wonder if a change of scenery will even help him. 

And sometimes you just have to cut your line and move on.  (Easy for me to say since it isn't my money.)

[Mr. Happy]

We talked a lot yesterday about how the Astros have problems getting a team on the field that can hit and fill all the defensive positions.  Then, last night, Garner comes up with a doozy.

I reiterate my position from Limey Time:  this club needs a serious overhaul of playing personnel because all of Gar's options right now have a sting in the tail.

That was a doozy of a lineup that "garnered" exactly six hits, the same number as the two previous nights if memory serves me correctly. I'm of the opinion that it is time to cut bait with MoBerg and Lame. In light of our plight at the plate, I'm also beginning to wonder whether OP is a luxury that we can't afford to have right now, especially given that he's not producing.

[BudGirl]

That was a doozy of a lineup that "garnered" exactly six hits, the same number as the two previous nights if memory serves me correctly. I'm of the opinion that it is time to cut bait with MoBerg and Lame. In light of our plight at the plate, I'm also beginning to wonder whether OP is a luxury that we can't afford to have right now, especially given that he's not producing.

OP is not the problem.

[homer]

That was a doozy of a lineup that "garnered" exactly six hits, the same number as the two previous nights if memory serves me correctly. I'm of the opinion that it is time to cut bait with MoBerg and Lame. In light of our plight at the plate, I'm also beginning to wonder whether OP is a luxury that we can't afford to have right now, especially given that he's not producing.

Who do you suggest as the LH contact hitter off the bench? Or, are you not a slave to such strategery?

[Mr. Happy]

OP is not the problem.

I didn't mean to imply that he is the problem, because he isn't. He's taking space on the roster though, and he has limited use. Maybe its just that there are so many other problems in the other 24.

[Mr. Happy]

Who do you suggest as the LH contact hitter off the bench? Or, are you not a slave to such strategery?

Both excellent questions, as you generally produce. I don't know the answer to either one. As I stated in my previous post, maybe we're just having so many problems in other spots that I'm just frantically searching for answers to our anemic offense.

[BudGirl]

Both excellent questions, as you generally produce. I don't know the answer to either one. As I stated in my previous post, maybe we're just having so many problems in other spots that I'm just frantically searching for answers to our anemic offense.

The problem is what Noe posted the other day.  It is the same problem it has been for a couple of seasons now.

[Limey]

I'm not sure that Purpura would disagree with you--but what return would the club get for Ensberg/Lane/Burke,etc.?

That's why I speculated that a blockbuster trade may be in order.  The Astros have solid locks in a few positions and a bunch of players that don't fit in the remainder.  The Astros also have to get rid of a bunch of shit that no one wants.  Therefore, the only way I can see to make an immediate improvement to the club is to package the shit with quality (real or perceived) that the Astros enjoy in abundance and ship it off for a similar package from someone else.

I'm speaking of something like the San Diego trade of a decade ago, which brought some shit but set the Astros up for a decent late-90's run.

[Curly]

The problem is what Noe posted the other day.  It is the same problem it has been for a couple of seasons now.

 What, that the #8 hitter isn't producing at the plate?

[BudGirl]

That's why I speculated that a blockbuster trade may be in order.  The Astros have solid locks in a few positions and a bunch of players that don't fit in the remainder.  The Astros also have to get rid of a bunch of shit that no one wants.  Therefore, the only way I can see to make an immediate improvement to the club is to package the shit with quality (real or perceived) that the Astros enjoy in abundance and ship it off for a similar package from someone else.

I'm speaking of something like the San Diego trade of a decade ago, which brought some shit but set the Astros up for a decent late-90's run.

You are talking duct tape deals.  After all, isn't this similar to trading operation shutdown to you?

[BudGirl]

 What, that the #8 hitter isn't producing at the plate?

Don't leave out the 7 and 9 hitters.

[JimR]

That's why I speculated that a blockbuster trade may be in order.  The Astros have solid locks in a few positions and a bunch of players that don't fit in the remainder.  The Astros also have to get rid of a bunch of shit that no one wants.  Therefore, the only way I can see to make an immediate improvement to the club is to package the shit with quality (real or perceived) that the Astros enjoy in abundance and ship it off for a similar package from someone else.

I'm speaking of something like the San Diego trade of a decade ago, which brought some shit but set the Astros up for a decent late-90's run.

Mark and i were saying last night that if Purpura has a plan for improving this team, he'd better get on with it.

[JaneDoe]

Mark and i were saying last night that if Purpura has a plan for improving this team, he'd better get on with it.

Do you think he has one?  Seems to me he just thinks it will "all fall into place".

Maybe he is just waiting for the tombstone.

[Alkie]

I've been saying for years that Purpura has yet to do anything to impress me.  It's never been a "run this moron off!" type feeling.  I don't think he's Cam Bonifay or Chuck LaMmmaaarr. 

But I don't think he does anything particularily well.  His trades, his persistance with some really mediocre players, even his FA signings. 

If Drayton let Purpura go at the end of this season, I wouldn't be the least bit upset.  As long as he's not replaced with Rick Adelman.

I miss Hun.  A lot.

[MusicMan]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Brad Lidge is the best hope for reloading this team via trade.  I love the guy, but multiple shutdown relievers is a luxury not affordable for a team with no offense and no offensive prospects.

[Alkie]

Do you think he has one?  Seems to me he just thinks it will "all fall into place".

I genuinely get this idea as well.  Hunsicker was very pro-active and made a lot of tremendous moves.  Some was luck, but I think a lot of it was skill.

While some of the best trades may be the ones you don't make, I don't think the Astros are a better team now than they were when Purpura took over.  Look at where Hun took the team. 

I get the feeling Purpura is still out of his league a bit.  He really really really wants to believe that Lane and Scott and Burke and the rest of "his guys" are quality MLB players.  He seems to like the idea of "it'll all come together soon.....just WATCH."  But it doesn't.

Does anyone have a quick list of player moves at the ML level (not just daily shit, but actual trades/signings) under Purpura?

[Alkie]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Brad Lidge is the best hope for reloading this team via trade.  I love the guy, but multiple shutdown relievers is a luxury not affordable for a team with no offense and no offensive prospects.

TOTALLY agree.  If Lidge IS back (and it sure looks like it) and he's not going to be closing and he has a current ERA of 1.xx?  I say trade the man with Lane/Scott/Burke for a serious fucking RF/CF bat.

[JimR]

I've been saying for years that Purpura has yet to do anything to impress me.  It's never been a "run this moron off!" type feeling.  I don't think he's Cam Bonifay or Chuck LaMmmaaarr. 

But I don't think he does anything particularily well.  His trades, his persistance with some really mediocre players, even his FA signings. 

If Drayton let Purpura go at the end of this season, I wouldn't be the least bit upset.  As long as he's not replaced with Rick Adelman.

I miss Hun.  A lot.

ok, so now you have said it again.

[Alkie]

ok, so now you have said it again.

If this is about Jennings, you better just get over it and/or get used to it.  This post was just barely about the Jennings trade (which sucked and will continue to suck and was a bad move and I'm comfortable with that).  It's more about the fact that Purpura doesn't seem to do a whole lot to make the club better.

How many chances does Lane REALLY need?  What the hell is Chris Burke doing in RR?   Why was Woody Williams given a 2 year deal?  These make no fucking sense.  Hell, disregard the Jennings trade entirely!  Tell me you think Purpura has been an above average GM.

[MusicMan]

Does anyone have a quick list of player moves at the ML level (not just daily shit, but actual trades/signings) under Purpura?

FA's:
Brian Moehler
Rick White
Mark Loretta
Carlos Lee
Woody Williams
Trever Miller
Preston Wilson
Russ Springer

Trades:
Jennings/Asencio for Hirsh/Buchholz/Taveras
Huff for Talbot/Zobrist
Quintero for Redding

[BudGirl]

If this is about Jennings, you better just get over it and/or get used to it.  This post was just barely about the Jennings trade (which sucked and will continue to suck and was a bad move and I'm comfortable with that).  It's more about the fact that Purpura doesn't seem to do a whole lot to make the club better.

How many chances does Lane REALLY need?  What the hell is Chris Burke doing in RR?   Why was Woody Williams given a 2 year deal?  These make no fucking sense.  Hell, disregard the Jennings trade entirely!  Tell me you think Purpura has been an above average GM.

Just curious, who do you think is an above average GM?  Because I have no idea.

[MusicMan]

Just curious, who do you think is an above average GM?  Because I have no idea.

Ryan (Twins)
Scheurholz (Braves)
Beinfest (Marlins)
Beane (Oakland)
Dombrowski (Tigers)

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm still waiting for Purpura to make a trade or signing that actually impresses me.  With all due respect for Carlos Lee. It seems to me that Tim Purpura perfrom his duties in a rather perfunctory manner. I'm not saying he's bad, I'm saying I'm still waiting. The best that I can say is he hasn't fucked up.

[Limey]

FA's:
Brian Moehler
Rick White
Mark Loretta
Carlos Lee
Woody Williams
Trever Miller
Preston Wilson
Russ Springer

Trades:
Jennings/Asencio for Hirsh/Buchholz/Taveras
Huff for Talbot/Zobrist
Quintero for Redding

Solid list of FA signings.  No one expected Wilson to suck as an Astros and then turn around and win the WS with the Jakes!  Trades look ok too, with Alkie's feelings on Jennings noted.

What we'll never know is if there's any trades he didn't make and should've, or FAs that slipped through his fingers.

[strosrays]

The time to start rebuilding or reloading or making over the team was a couple of years ago, right after the World Series, when Bags was winding it down and long-time mainstays like Biggio, Ausmus, etc., were beginning to show serious signs of wear and tear.  I don't think Purpura is 100% at fault on this.  Some of his possible motivations for not being more ruthless about it would be understandable in his position - he may have been hesitant to change too much, too soon after Hunsicker's departure, partly out of not wanting to mess with a successful team, partly for fear of creating the impression he was clearing out Hunsicker's players to remake the team in his image.  It couldn't have helped him that the owner was a sentimentalist like Drayton, either.  That sort of thing is a plus when one considers McLane kept Biggio and Bagwell around for all their productive years instead of letting them get away as free agents.  But it cuts both ways, and his devotion to Biggio for instance doesn't look so great now, strictly from a baseball point of view.

By now, a post Biggio-Bagwell letdown seems to be setting in.  I only hope the floundering about is relatively brief; right now this kind of feels like the late 1980s.

[Jacksonian]

Solid list of FA signings.  No one expected Wilson to suck as an Astros and then turn around and win the WS with the Jakes!  Trades look ok too, with Alkie's feelings on Jennings noted.

What we'll never know is if there's any trades he didn't make and should've, or FAs that slipped through his fingers.

What were the details of the Moyer/Winn machinations?

[JackAstro]

What were the details of the Moyer/Winn machinations?

Moyer blew that one up, right? Would've been good.

[Limey]

By now, a post Biggio-Bagwell letdown seems to be setting in.  I only hope the floundering about is relatively brief; right now this kind of feels like the late 1980s.

The next opportunity to re-tool will be the trade deadline.  That's the time when it might be possible to deal away the non-core talent and raid someone's farm system.  Anyone not called Biggio, Berkman, Everett or Oswalt (ETA:  Oops...Lee) should be dangled.  If there's nothing doing, then pull 'em back and look to re-tool via trade and FA signings in the offseason.

I'm not saying that this season's a bust.  The NL Central is just whacky enough to keep this misfiring Astros team in it well into September.  But there needs to be a plan to fix 2B, 3B, CF (with all due respect to PENCE!!), RF, C (going forward post-Ausmus) and the 1, 2, 5, 6 & 7 spots in the batting order.

[Noe]

Just curious, who do you think is an above average GM?  Because I have no idea.

Terry Ryan is perhaps the best.  Shureholz in Atlanta gets plenty of deserved credit.  Dumbrowski just consistently takes mediocre teams and makes them a winner.  Those would be my top three... in that order.  All three rely on pitching to make the team a winner and not necessarily the checkbook and a bought and paid for superstar lineup.

[Duman]

Terry Ryan is perhaps the best.  Shureholz in Atlanta gets plenty of deserved credit.  Dumbrowski just consistently takes mediocre teams and makes them a winner.  Those would be my top three... in that order.  All three rely on pitching to make the team a winner and not necessarily the checkbook and a bought and paid for superstar lineup.

They also use a lot of home grown talent. Something the Astros don't have a whole lot of now.  {In my best Clark typing} Maybe we should trade GM's instead of trading players.

[strosrays]

Terry Ryan is perhaps the best.  Shureholz in Atlanta gets plenty of deserved credit.  Dumbrowski just consistently takes mediocre teams and makes them a winner.  Those would be my top three... in that order.  All three rely on pitching to make the team a winner and not necessarily the checkbook and a bought and paid for superstar lineup.

Billy Beane.

If you don't know that by now, then you inbreds just suck.

[Noe]

Billy Beane.

If you don't know that by now, then you inbreds just suck.

Not top three to me though.  Maybe top five.  Ryan is heads above what Beane does it isn't even close.  But Ryan works in Minnesota, where no one notices his work year in and year out.  Beane is a self-promoter who will make you notice his work, even if you're not that impressed as you would be if you look at what Ryan does consistently.

[Alkie]

Solid list of FA signings.  No one expected Wilson to suck as an Astros and then turn around and win the WS with the Jakes!  Trades look ok too, with Alkie's feelings on Jennings noted.

What we'll never know is if there's any trades he didn't make and should've, or FAs that slipped through his fingers.

Agree re: FA signings.  For the most part, I think that list is very good.  I actually liked the P Wilson signing; that's not Purp's fault it didn't pan out. 

Still, I think what it comes down to is this: when I thought about the job Hun did at any point in time, I felt damn proud to have a GM as fucking genius as that guy was.  I never get that feeling with Purpura.  I feel like he does a perfectly adequate job.  And that's about it.

[pravata]

What were the details of the Moyer/Winn machinations?

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=27526.msg27526#msg27526

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=29410.msg29410#msg29410

[Astroholic]

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=27526.msg27526#msg27526

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=29410.msg29410#msg29410

Thanks, I just got pissed off all over again.  Would love to have Winn on the team.

[davek]

What the hell is Chris Burke doing in RR?   

Hitting .200 the last time I looked...

[JimR]

Hitting .200 the last time I looked...

.160 starting the game last night but got a couple of hits. made his 3rd start at 2B. Ransom was in LF.

[pravata]

Thanks, I just got pissed off all over again.  Would love to have Winn on the team.

Winn was having a so-so year in Seattle, he blew up when he got to the Giants.  Tacking on an extra year for an aged projected swing man in a trade that sent then pencian darling Burke and Nieve out of town was a little more than the novice GM was willing to chance.

[kevinG]

This year is the first year I've had serious doubts about Purp as a lasting GM... the team simply is not that good. Unlike the last few years, where "falling into place" was Purp's legitimate option, this team has neither the pitching nor the offense to make serious noise.

Too many subpar players getting playing time. Lane and Burke simply aren't panning out, and despite myself being the biggest Ensberg booster around, he hasn't cut it this year, and Lamb isn't the answer there.

And frankly, the stros have a lot of tradeable assets. Lidge, for obvious reasons... packaged with some combination of Lane/Burke/MoBerg might be able to bring some real talent.

[JimR]

Winn was having a so-so year in Seattle, he blew up when he got to the Giants.  Tacking on an extra year for an aged projected swing man in a trade that sent then pencian darling Burke and Nieve out of town was a little more than the novice GM was willing to chance.

who also asked for a Clemens family clause

[The Spleen]

I'm not sure how this team is going to improve significantly in the short term or, more importantly, avoid a run of losing seasons in the future:

-There's not exactly a glut of talent at the major league level. It's essentially three giants surrounded by midgets. Most of the value here is concentrated in those All-Stars, Berkman, Oswalt and Lee. They're the key to any future improvement, either as leaders and anchors for a rebuilding team... or as the focus for blockbuster deals that would restock the organization with young talent. Are these guys really untouchable? Would trading a superstar do more harm than good, underming the confidence of teammates and fans and leaving us stuck with pennies on the dollar? Yeah, I know about the no-trade clauses... but if my worst fears about the state of this team by the end of the decade come to pass... there will be many a night when they snap awake at 4 AM from feverish dreams filled with swarming crustaceans, screaming, "I SIGNED WHAAAAAT!!?! WHY! WHY, GOD, WHYYY!!"
Also... any serious mishap involving players of this caliber would sting even for the Yankees, but it would be an absolute catastrophe for this team. All of the Big Three have their issues. Oswalt is a pitcher. Pitchers get hurt. It's what they do. More specifically, he has stated publicly that he has no interest in a long career and may retire early. Concerns about Berkman's... and especially Lee's... weight, presumed lack of conditioning and vulnerability to injury and premature aging have been raised in a number of places. And now we have Lance's very mysterious and very scary affliction this year...
Assuming they do all stay around, happy, healthy and untraded... who will be the supporting cast? Before last season, we would have been talking about a Big Four... but despite encouraging signs this year, Brad Lidge's protracted slump has decreased his potential value as part of a future core or as part of a major trade. A number of second and third tier players... Ensberg, Lane, Burke... have also seen both their on-field and market values decline substantially.

-There isn't much left in the minor leagues, either. Most of the quality talent they do have is in the form of pitching and at the lower levels... which suggests a high attrition rate. Their one really promising offensive prospect, Pence(!), is already in play. There's not much that could provide immediate help at the major league level or fuel an impact trade.

-So this leaves... free agency? That's always a high risk proposition. McLane's reputation as a tightwad is grossly overrated, but his resources are still limited... especially when the solution would require not just one or two big names but the acquisition of as many as a half dozen players. Even if the money is right, Houston is not exactly a prestige destination... unless you're into ranching apparently. And that vaunted clubhouse culture of professionalism and high standards we've heard so many players rave about? Gone with the passing of Bagwell and Biggio and the overall high turnover of the past few years... I mean, have you watched these guys try to run the bases, throw to the right base, hit with men on base or do, well... pretty much anything involving balls and bases?
There are also the persistent rumors that Drayton may be interested in selling the team. If he's no longer just one big signing or one clutch performance away from winning a ring... if he's years of rebuilding away... will he stick it out? Losing young prospects or established stars is bad enough... but what about losing the guy who, numerous warts and all, is the best owner this franchise has ever had? Are we ready for the Tilman Fertitta Era? Who knows, maybe he could liven things up by dumping non-hackers like Ensberg into a huge tank full of voracious sea creatures, Bond villain style. I'm sure the PPV proceeds from bloodsports at the LOBsterDrome would exceed any value they would return in trades...

I could go on... but I really need some quality time with a fresh box of X-acto blades and the new Jimmy Eat World CD...

[JackAstro]

I could go on... but I really need some quality time with a fresh box of X-acto blades and the new Jimmy Eat World CD...

That was a hell of a circuitous route to get to emo and cutting.

[strosrays]

That was a hell of a circuitous route to get to emo and cutting.

I recently came across a list of current terms used by kids to categorize themselves and their classmates, and decided to try and compare and find equivalents to the ones in use during my schoolboy days.  Most of the categories we had -- jocks, brains, stoners, goat ropers, narcs -- had rough equivalents today.  A lot of the current specific categories like Goths and Riot Grrrls would've just fallen under Stoners in the old days.  Stoners was a pretty broad category, and to tell the truth probably encompassed 60-70% of my graduating class.

But anyway, the one term I had trouble with was Emo Kids or Emos, because I had no idea what it meant.  So I asked 47 different 12-16 year olds the definition of "Emo Kid", and got 46 distinctly different answers (my 14-year-old son and one of my nieces gave essentially the same definition.)  Which means I still have no idea what an Emo Kid is.  But he's probably a Stoner, too.

[Astroholic]

I recently came across a list of current terms used by kids to categorize themselves and their classmates, and decided to try and compare and find equivalents to the ones in use during my schoolboy days.  Most of the categories we had -- jocks, brains, stoners, goat ropers, narcs -- had rough equivalents today.  A lot of the current specific categories like Goths and Riot Grrrls would've just fallen under Stoners in the old days.  Stoners was a pretty broad category, and to tell the truth probably encompassed 60-70% of my graduating class.

But anyway, the one term I had trouble with was Emo Kids or Emos, because I had no idea what it meant.  So I asked 47 different 12-16 year olds the definition of "Emo Kid", and got 46 distinctly different answers (my 14-year-old son and one of my nieces gave essentially the same definition.)  Which means I still have no idea what an Emo Kid is.  But he's probably a Stoner, too.

I am still trying to get used to Pwned.  My girl is 7.5.  I here a few words that she brings home.  Usually use wiki or something to that effect to figure out what she is trying to say.  Our parents did not have the WWW to figure out what we were saying.

[JackAstro]

I recently came across a list of current terms used by kids to categorize themselves and their classmates, and decided to try and compare and find equivalents to the ones in use during my schoolboy days.  Most of the categories we had -- jocks, brains, stoners, goat ropers, narcs -- had rough equivalents today.  A lot of the current specific categories like Goths and Riot Grrrls would've just fallen under Stoners in the old days.  Stoners was a pretty broad category, and to tell the truth probably encompassed 60-70% of my graduating class.

But anyway, the one term I had trouble with was Emo Kids or Emos, because I had no idea what it meant.  So I asked 47 different 12-16 year olds the definition of "Emo Kid", and got 46 distinctly different answers (my 14-year-old son and one of my nieces gave essentially the same definition.)  Which means I still have no idea what an Emo Kid is.  But he's probably a Stoner, too.

Was there a category that was synonymous with mopey and melodramatic? 10 or so years ago, an emo kid was usually a college-aged guy who rode a bike, wore dark t-shirts and had musical tastes evolving from punk, hardcore and/or indie. Emo was a subgenre of music, that's pretty much it. At this point, I have absolutely no understanding of what's evolved. If you want a fantastically uninformed, nearly Reefer Madness style news account, check this out.

[Astroholic]

Was there a category that was synonymous with mopey and melodramatic? 10 or so years ago, an emo kid was usually a college-aged guy who rode a bike, wore dark t-shirts and had musical tastes evolving from punk, hardcore and/or indie. Emo was a subgenre of music, that's pretty much it. At this point, I have absolutely no understanding of what's evolved. If you want a fantastically uninformed, nearly Reefer Madness style news account, check this out.

Thats some fucked up shit. 

[MusicMan]

Thats some fucked up shit. 

And after the last few games, we know fucked up shit when we see it.

[Phil_in_CS]

Was there a category that was synonymous with mopey and melodramatic? 10 or so years ago, an emo kid was usually a college-aged guy who rode a bike, wore dark t-shirts and had musical tastes evolving from punk, hardcore and/or indie. Emo was a subgenre of music, that's pretty much it. At this point, I have absolutely no understanding of what's evolved. If you want a fantastically uninformed, nearly Reefer Madness style news account, check this out.

This one is better

[Ty in Tampa]

Emos would have been brains straddling stoners. My nephew is/was emo in high school and the best I can describe him as is 'affected.'

[Astroholic]

This one is better

Give me a fucking break.  That shit aint flying in my house.

[JackAstro]

This one is better

That's awesome.

[JackAstro]

Give me a fucking break.  That shit aint flying in my house.

It's a joke.

[Astroholic]

It's a joke.

Are you sure?  I guess that basketball hoop in her lip is a joke as well?

[tophfar]

Which means I still have no idea what an Emo Kid is.  But he's probably a Stoner, too.

yup.  just a very self-absorbed, melodramatic, depressed one. 

I am still trying to get used to Pwned.

i dont get what there was to get used to?

[tophfar]

Are you sure?  I guess that basketball hoop in her lip is a joke as well?

yes

but then, its from wiki, so obviously it doesnt know what it's talking about.

[JackAstro]

Are you sure?  I guess that basketball hoop in her lip is a joke as well?

Pretty sure. The "gothtard" line is priceless.

[Noe]

It's a joke.

"Thanks Bobby... maybe I'll do that... or maybe I'll just take a long swin in formaldehyde with a squid... *boo-hoo*"

Wow!

[Astroholic]

yes

but then, its from wiki, so obviously it doesnt know what it's talking about.

Cool, unfortunatly I am sure there really are some Phucked up ones out there just like that one.

Also, I have to get use to my kids saying Pwned, that's all.

[Bench]

Emos would have been brains straddling stoners. My nephew is/was emo in high school and the best I can describe him as is 'affected.'

Is that better or worse than "disaffected"?

[Ty in Tampa]

Worse. Whiney.

[pravata]

Worse. Whiney.

But not as bad as infected.

[ASTROCREEP]

Solid list of FA signings.  No one expected Wilson to suck as an Astros and then turn around and win the WS with the Jakes!  Trades look ok too, with Alkie's feelings on Jennings noted.

What we'll never know is if there's any trades he didn't make and should've, or FAs that slipped through his fingers.

Brian Moehler
Rick White
Mark Loretta
Carlos Lee
Woody Williams

Trades:
Jennings/Asencio for Hirsh/Buchholz/Taveras

This was the FIRST year PUP actually tried to improve the club.

[MusicMan]

This was the FIRST offseason that "PUP" didn't have a team that was in GAme 7 of the previous year's NLCS.

[ASTROCREEP]

This was the FIRST offseason that "PUP" didn't have a team that was in GAme 7 of the previous year's NLCS.

That's a bullshit reason NOT to try and improve the team. The team was CLEARLY missing something in the World Series and the NLCS the year before.

[homer]

This was the FIRST offseason that "PUP" didn't have a team that was in GAme 7 of the previous year's NLCS.

2nd year.

[Limey]

yup.  just a very self-absorbed, melodramatic, depressed one. 

A Smith?

[BudGirl]

This was the FIRST offseason that "PUP" didn't have a team that was in GAme 7 of the previous year's NLCS.

Does that really matter?  Shouldn't a GM always try to improve the team?

[JackAstro]

Does that really matter?  Shouldn't a GM always try to improve the team?

What in the hell are you guys talking about? Is Purpura an emo kid? I'm so lost...

[BudGirl]

What in the hell are you guys talking about? Is Purpura an emo kid? I'm so lost...

What the hell is emo??

[Bench]

What the hell is emo??

Like the kangaroo, it cannot walk backwards.

[Jacksonian]

What in the hell are you guys talking about? Is Purpura an emo kid? I'm so lost...

Almost.  Purpura is an emo character to be introduced in the next season of 24 who will try to destroy NY by blowing himself up while standing next to Robinson Cano on second base of Yankee Stadium.

Lost is a whole different show dude.

[ASTROCREEP]

What the hell is emo??

My Chemical Romance

[Astroholic]

Almost.  Purpura is an emo character to be introduced in the next season of 24 who will try to destroy NY by blowing himself up while standing next to Robinson Cano on second base of Yankee Stadium.

Lost is a whole different show dude.

Laughing out load again.  Yall are gonna get me fired.

[MusicMan]

2nd year.

Negative.  Purp took over Nov 2004, coming of the first NLCS.  His first two offseasons (2004-5 and 2005-6) were off the back-to-back NLCS runs.  The 2006-7 offeason was his first time to come off a year they hadn't made the playoffs.

[MusicMan]

That's a bullshit reason NOT to try and improve the team. The team was CLEARLY missing something in the World Series and the NLCS the year before.

What whining bullshit.  When you're using the phrase "in the World Series and the NLCS the year before", you probably figure you have a pretty good team put together, no?

[Ty in Tampa]

My Chemical Romance

Sunny Day Real Estate
Jimmy Eat World
Dashboard Confessional
Death Cab for Cutie
etc.

[pravata]

Does that really matter?  Shouldn't a GM always try to improve the team?

Even if it's wrong?  Unreliable offense has been the main problem for the Astros since 1999.  By any measure, White, Loretta, and Lee are major additions.

[jaklewein]

TOTALLY agree.  If Lidge IS back (and it sure looks like it) and he's not going to be closing and he has a current ERA of 1.xx?  I say trade the man with Lane/Scott/Burke for a serious fucking RF/CF bat.

This team is not playing well, obviously, but that doesn't mean it can't be turned around either.  I'm ok with trading Lidge due to his service time...but not until we know for a fact that this team is out of the playoff hunt.  Strong pitching is the only way for this team to get back to winning games on a regular basis.  Trading Lidge doesn't lend to that scenario.  I say you keep Lidge till the deadline and hope the guys we have come around.  If they don't, then you trade him...but for prospects.

ETA:  Geez guys, I'm sorry.  I tried to finally take a few minutes away from my job and post something and find out that I'd only read page one of five in this thread.  I think work is turning my brain into mush....I sincerely apologize for this post as I'm sure Cabrera's name should be mentioned any minute now.

[BudGirl]

Even if it's wrong?  Unreliable offense has been the main problem for the Astros since 1999.  By any measure, White, Loretta, and Lee are major additions.

I believe every team has a position that can be improved.  I believe it is wrong if a GM doesn't try and improve it.

[Noe]

Even if it's wrong?  Unreliable offense has been the main problem for the Astros since 1999.  By any measure, White, Loretta, and Lee are major additions.

Yeah careful with those calls for trades there Mr. Joe Average Fan.  You got the local media so hyped about it last year that they started making shit up and stuff about Oswalt being traded for a Met's Build-a-Bear or sumptin.

[pravata]

I believe every team has a position that can be improved.  I believe it is wrong if a GM doesn't try and improve it.

You don't think that, given the resources available, and in his judgement, he has? 

[Noe]

I believe every team has a position that can be improved.  I believe it is wrong if a GM doesn't try and improve it.

Three ways to improve a team:

1. Trade.
2. Let the young guys play.
3. Sign a free agent.

Fans get shortsighted sometimes and measure a GM by his ability to do Items #1 and #3 only.

[davek]

Lost is a whole different show dude.

"Lost" is the saga of the rise and fall of MoBerg...

[pravata]

Three ways to improve a team:

1. Trade.
2. Let the young guys play.
3. Sign a free agent.

Fans get shortsighted sometimes and measure a GM by his ability to do Items #1 and #3 only.

Talk about shortsighted.  Didnt Purpura commit early to playing Luke Scott in right this season?  Wasnt Scott pencing just 2 seasons ago?  How quickly we forget.

[Noe]

Talk about shortsighted.  Didnt Purpura commit early to playing Luke Scott in right this season?  Wasnt Scott pencing just 2 seasons ago?  How quickly we forget.

We have short attention spans... oh look over there... shinny things!  Woo-hoo!!! Ahum... what were we talking about?

[BudGirl]

You don't think that, given the resources available, and in his judgement, he has? 

I know we assume he has.  I assume he has made all the efforts he can to improve the team.  I don't know.  I don't sit outside his office.  Do you? 

[MusicMan]

Ahum... what were we talking about?

To recap:
Lost - but not tonight's season finale
24
Robinson Emo
Rosie O'Donnell causing priapism
Tim Purpura's failures to improve the best teams in Astro history, without even referencing the extent to which the team's offseasons were held hostage

What am I missing?

[Noe]

I know we assume he has.  I assume he has made all the efforts he can to improve the team.  I don't know.  I don't sit outside his office.  Do you? 

Start with what you do actually know and go from there.

[Noe]

To recap:
Lost - but not tonight's season finale
24
Robinson Emo
Rosie O'Donnell causing priapism
Tim Purpura's failures to improve the best teams in Astro history, without even referencing the extent to which the team's offseasons were held hostage

What am I missing?

Any mention of rub girls yet?  That is a sure sign a thread has run it's course.

[pravata]

I know we assume he has.  I assume he has made all the efforts he can to improve the team.  I don't know.  I don't sit outside his office.  Do you? 

Don't be ridiculous. Garner answered a dumb ass post game question a couple days ago by saying "because I wanted to lose".  Are you saying that's Purpura's attitude?

[Phil_in_CS]

But not as bad as infected.

most are that, too

[BudGirl]

Start with what you do actually know and go from there.

My apologies for questioning the team.  Purpura is the bomb.  I'll never wonder about him again.

Have a good evening.

[JimR]

That's a bullshit reason NOT to try and improve the team. The team was CLEARLY missing something in the World Series and the NLCS the year before.

no, this is bullshit.

[BudGirl]

Don't be ridiculous. Garner answered a dumb ass post game question a couple days ago by saying "because I wanted to lose".  Are you saying that's Purpura's attitude?

Are you guys just being assholes for the hell of it?  I think Purpura has an attachment to his farm team that is not healthy for the team.  I can and will think it no matter what you guys tell me. 

I never said Purpura wanted to lose.  Stop being ridiculous.  Stop trying to make my opinion into something it's not.

I'm sure Noe will "sigh" as his response to this.

[JimR]

  I can and will think it no matter what you guys tell me. 

this pretty much sums it up.

[homer]

Negative.  Purp took over Nov 2004, coming of the first NLCS.  His first two offseasons (2004-5 and 2005-6) were off the back-to-back NLCS runs.  The 2006-7 offeason was his first time to come off a year they hadn't made the playoffs.

There was no game 7 of the 2005 NLCS. Picking nits because I am bored.

[MusicMan]

There was no game 7 of the 2005 NLCS. Picking nits because I am bored.

Damn.  You're right.

[The Spleen]

I didn't know from emo either.
This baseball season has been very educational...

[homer]

To recap:
Lost - but not tonight's season finale

This show is getting pretty fucking out of hand too.

[MusicMan]

This show is getting pretty fucking out of hand too.

See the "Robinson Cano" thread for the Lost discussion.

[pravata]

Are you guys just being assholes for the hell of it?  I think Purpura has an attachment to his farm team that is not healthy for the team.  I can and will think it no matter what you guys tell me. 

I never said Purpura wanted to lose.  Stop being ridiculous.  Stop trying to make my opinion into something it's not.

I'm sure Noe will "sigh" as his response to this.

You know good and well that all I know is what I read.  What was the sitting outside his door crack?  What's the question?  You've read the debates in 2005 when Purpura didn't trade what he had.  You are well aware of the choices and compromises that lead to Ensberg, Lane, Scott, Everett, Jennings, Williams, and yes Ausmus, being on the team.  Has everything turned out great?  No.  But questioning the result doesnt get anyone anywhere.  The process that got the Astros where they are today is not wrong.  Except maybe philosophically the thing with Burke. 

[homer]

See the "Robinson Cano" thread for the Lost discussion.

Yeah, just read it. Should have thought to look there first.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

How's this for a good Emo stlye band name: Toenail in My Sandwich? or maybe: Bucket Full of Chainsaws? no?!?! How about: Razorblade Blood Dust?!?!? Aw fuck it who wants to be in an Emo band anyway... it was cool before it became all the rage.

[MusicMan]

How's this for a good Emo stlye band name: Toenail in My Sandwich? or maybe: Bucket Full of Chainsaws? no?!?! How about: Razorblade Blood Dust?!?!? Aw fuck it who wants to be in an Emo band anyway... it was cool before it became all the rage.

Ensberg in My Lineup.

[pravata]

That's a bullshit reason NOT to try and improve the team. The team was CLEARLY missing something in the World Series and the NLCS the year before.

Right Carlos Lee.  He went and got him.  This season what they are clearly missing is Lance Berkman.  Blame that one on Purpura.

[homer]

Ensberg in My Lineup.

Peepers in my Central Garden

[homer]

Right Carlos Lee.  He went and got him.  This season what they are clearly missing is Lance Berkman.  Blame that one on Purpura.

The Astros were also missing Morgan Ensberg... and still are.

[pravata]

The Astros were also missing Morgan Ensberg.

If Berkman was Berkman, Ensberg would just be another lemur.

[homer]

If Berkman was Berkman, Ensberg would just be another lemur.

Disagree. The missing piece of 2005 might have been Lee, but that was in concert with Berkman, MVPesque Ensberg, Lane with 25 HRs, Bidge with 25HRs and a pitching staff that was unbelievable.

Berkman needs to be Berkman, but there also needs to be help at 3B and/or RF.

[matadorph]

Disagree. The missing piece of 2005 might have been Lee, but that was in concert with Berkman, MVPesque Ensberg, Lane with 25 HRs, Bidge with 25HRs and a pitching staff that was unbelievable.

Berkman needs to be Berkman, but there also needs to be help at 3B and/or RF.

Ding fuckin Ding.

Sadly, until Berkman gets his shit together and either a Scott, Lane, or Ensberg channels the past, the Chron blogs and Houston sports talk radio will increasingly screech about the seven and eight hitters in the lineup and the lefty pinch-hitting, 25th man as reasons to endlessly bash Phil Garner.

[Limey]

I didn't know from emo either.
This baseball season has been very educational...

It's power pop.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[matadorph]

It's power pop.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Not always. There is no power to Conor Oberst's whining.

[Limey]

Not always. There is no power to Conor Oberst's whining.

It's not everyone's cup of tea.

[matadorph]

I'll take Fugazi and Bad Brains over that Jimmy Eat World/Dashboard Confessional/Bright Eyes cotton candy crap. I can't fucking stand Conor Oberst.

[Ty in Tampa]

It's not everyone's cup of tea.

Neither are macs.

[Noe]

My apologies for questioning the team.  Purpura is the bomb.  I'll never wonder about him again.

Have a good evening.

I don't understand.  What is the problem?

[Noe]

Are you guys just being assholes for the hell of it?  I think Purpura has an attachment to his farm team that is not healthy for the team.  I can and will think it no matter what you guys tell me. 

I never said Purpura wanted to lose.  Stop being ridiculous.  Stop trying to make my opinion into something it's not.

I'm sure Noe will "sigh" as his response to this.

No, I am just at a loss as to why you think anyone is picking on you.  I thought you were getting your question answered.

[Noe]

You know good and well that all I know is what I read.  What was the sitting outside his door crack?  What's the question?  You've read the debates in 2005 when Purpura didn't trade what he had.  You are well aware of the choices and compromises that lead to Ensberg, Lane, Scott, Everett, Jennings, Williams, and yes Ausmus, being on the team.  Has everything turned out great?  No.  But questioning the result doesnt get anyone anywhere.  The process that got the Astros where they are today is not wrong.  Except maybe philosophically the thing with Burke. 

In essence, start with what you know and go from there.  How is that being a smartass?

[ASTROCREEP]

Right Carlos Lee.  He went and got him.  This season what they are clearly missing is Lance Berkman.  Blame that one on Purpura.

I meant the year after the World Series. This season they atleast tried to improve the team. I keep hearing about how great Pup was at player development, well keep him doing what he's good at. If we don't have anyone good enough at AAA to replace Lane, then player development is in great need of some help.

[ASTROCREEP]

I don't understand.  What is the problem?

The idea that if you make it to the WS, you should stand pat. That's a problem to me.

[pravata]

I meant the year after the World Series. This season they atleast tried to improve the team. I keep hearing about how great Pup was at player development, well keep him doing what he's good at. If we don't have anyone good enough at AAA to replace Lane, then player development is in great need of some help.

They thought Wilson was going to help, they thought Ensberg's problem was that he was hurt.  Then, I think people discount how big a deal Huff was.  Lots of teams were after him.   The problem, I suppose was in the judgement not the effort.  As for Purpura's player development, it was concentrated in the pitching. 

[MikeyBoy]

They thought Wilson was going to help, they thought Ensberg's problem was that he was hurt.  Then, I think people discount how big a deal Huff was.  Lots of teams were after him.   The problem, I suppose was in the judgement not the effort.  As for Purpura's player development, it was concentrated in the pitching. 

Lane went for .305/.354/.536 after the All-Star break in 2005. So, I don't think replacing Lane was at the top of the Astros list, either. Also, despite the "sweep", the Astros had the best record in all of baseball from June 1st to the end of the season. The idea that The Count sat on his thumbs due to ineptness, is ridiculous.

[chuck]

Ensberg in My Lineup.

I see the dust in the catchers mitt, like, explode? And I think about all the strikes that he just, you know, watched, that could have been, like, hits? And I just start crying and crying and can't stop?

[pravata]

Lane went for .305/.354/.536 after the All-Star break in 2005. So, I don't think replacing Lane was at the top of the Astros list, either. Also, despite the "sweep", the Astros had the best record in all of baseball from June 1st to the end of the season. The idea that The Count sat on his thumbs due to ineptness, is ridiculous.

Also, he tried trading for Tejada before and during the season.  Also tried to trade for Lee.

[utastro]

Also, he tried trading for Tejada before and during the season.  Also tried to trade for Lee.

We could've had Tejada if we had only traded Roy to the steM via the Orioles.  What was Purp thinking?

[pravata]

We could've had Tejada if we had only traded Roy to the steM via the Orioles.  What was Purp thinking?

Rangers.  That's what called it off.  The Grocer didn't want Oswalt flipped to the Rangers.  Because, then Roy would have been their all star selection.

[homer]

Rangers.  That's what called it off.  The Grocer didn't want Oswalt flipped to the Rangers.  Because, then Roy would have been their all star selection.

Fans would have been mad at Drayton for sending Roy to the Rangers. Like he did Nolan.

[JimR]

The idea that if you make it to the WS, you should stand pat. That's a problem to me.

and you're a problem to most folks here.

try AstrosDaily. they will welcome your whiny bitching there.

[ASTROCREEP]

and you're a problem to most folks here.

try AstrosDaily. they will welcome your whiny bitching there.

I know making comments like that make you feel good about yourself, but really how does wanting your team to continue to improve itself whiney? I didn't see you call BudGirl a whiny bitch. Because you may have to actually face her in person?

At this point, I might like to see the Astros get younger, and have a plan for '09

That would suck for Carlos but better long term for the Astros.

[pravata]

...might like to see the Astros get younger, and have a plan for '09

The flaw in this statement is that they have a plan for 07.  What team have you been watching?  When's the last time the Astros gave a season over to "development"?  And younger?  How exactly would you suggest that happen?

[Noe]

The flaw in this statement is that they have a plan for 07.  What team have you been watching?  When's the last time the Astros gave a season over to "development"?  And younger?  How exactly would you suggest that happen?

They do have a plan, but I guess it's not as evident to those who follow plans by other organizations in terms of success or lack thereof.  It's like rating a manager because of the failed execution of the players.  Worse way to judge if the manager is good or not.  Judge him by the thought process and then if the players execute, all is well.  If not, the problem is the player, not the plan.

[ASTROCREEP]

The flaw in this statement is that they have a plan for 07.  What team have you been watching?  When's the last time the Astros gave a season over to "development"?  And younger?  How exactly would you suggest that happen?

What is their plan for '07?

Maybe the Astros SHOULD give a season over to development?

I don't know trade Lidge, Jennings, Burke for some AAAA guys???

[pravata]

What is their plan for '07?

Maybe the Astros SHOULD give a season over to development?

I don't know trade Lidge, Jennings, Burke for some AAAA guys???

Acquire Lee for offense and to give Berkman protection.  Expect Scott and Ensberg to hit the ball.  No reason to think they weren't going to.  Trust that Burke can continue to play center and hit at least as well as he did last season.  At least give him a chance to play regularly.  Trade for some pitchers who would throw innings.  Garland was preferable, they got Jennings.  Keep the bullpen together, which means they aren't trading Lidge.   Expect WRodriguez and one other young pitcher to step up.  Don't count on or wait for Pettitte or Clemens.  Allow Craig Biggio to chase 3000 hits as an Astro.  That was the plan.  You may not agree with it, or even understand, doesnt mean it wasnt thought out.  Plans could change at the trading deadline, but don't expect Mclane to allow them to give up.  "Should"?  Why?  Because you want it?  You really haven't been paying attention to Drayton Mclane's team. 

[ASTROCREEP]

Acquire Lee for offense and to give Berkman protection.  Expect Scott and Ensberg to hit the ball.  No reason to think they weren't going to.  Trust that Burke can continue to play center and hit at least as well as he did last season.  At least give him a chance to play regularly.  Trade for some pitchers who would throw innings.  Garland was preferable, they got Jennings.  Keep the bullpen together, which means they aren't trading Lidge.   Expect WRodriguez and one other young pitcher to step up.  Don't count on or wait for Pettitte or Clemens.  Allow Craig Biggio to chase 3000 hits as an Astro.  That was the plan.  You may not agree with it, or even understand, doesnt mean it wasnt thought out.  Plans could change at the trading deadline, but don't expect Mclane to allow them to give up.  "Should"?  Why?  Because you want it?  You really haven't been paying attention to Drayton Mclane's team. 

When I replied to you I was thinking '07 was next year. Sorry you had to type all that. I understand the 07 plan, I kind of liked it. Except for the CF cituation. But maybe they should have focused more on the farm. (although they still can win this year)

The real problem I had was the year after the WS, your got Andy coming back, with a good chance of Clemens, that was the year to go for it. I remember being told maybe PUP has long term plans, and I remember thinking OK I can live with that. Now it is '07. Where is that farm system PUP was preserving???

[davek]

I know making comments like that make you feel good about yourself, but really how does wanting your team to continue to improve itself whiney? I didn't see you call BudGirl a whiny bitch. Because you may have to actually face her in person?

You see, it's like this...

"wanting your team to continue to improve itself " doesn't make you whiney... Whining about 'your' team is what makes you whiney...

Capeesh?  (Sorry Noé)

Now if you think Jim doesn't call BudGirl names is because he's afraid to face her in person then we'll just have to mark it down as yet another thing you just don't understand... We're talking about a guy who would go after a TRex with a Louisville Slugger if he was hungry enough...

But don't get too hard on yourself... There's lots of other whiney butts running around in the TZ... Clarks has got nothing on a bunch of them... Proof positive that umpty odd hundred posts don't automatically confer expert status...

[pravata]

When I replied to you I was thinking '07 was next year. Sorry you had to type all that. I understand the 07 plan, I kind of liked it. Except for the CF cituation. But maybe they should have focused more on the farm. (although they still can win this year)

The real problem I had was the year after the WS, your got Andy coming back, with a good chance of Clemens, that was the year to go for it. I remember being told maybe PUP has long term plans, and I remember thinking OK I can live with that. Now it is '07. Where is that farm system PUP was preserving???

The big thing they tried for in 06 was Tejada.  Purpura's inexperience may have tripped him up there, not knowing the Orioles are idiots.  Also, Carlos Lee was a deadline attempt.  The trade for Huff, although he wasnt the spark they expected, was a coup for Purpura.  The Astros haven't had many minor league position players pan out in recent years.  One factor is that Hunsicker kept trading everyone for his win now deals.  Buck is doing well, but I can't think of any Astros position players from those deals that have gone on to be really good.  Luke Scott, Jason Lane, Chris Burke, even Morgan Ensberg have all at one time been fan darlings.  They're all superstars before they start.   I don't think people are paying enough attention to the success of Wandy Rodriguez, Chris Sampson, and Chad Qualls.  Brad Lidge is a miracle of patience for the Astros farm system.

[ASTROCREEP]

You see, it's like this...

"wanting your team to continue to improve itself " doesn't make you whiney... Whining about 'your' team is what makes you whiney...

Capeesh?  (Sorry Noé)

Now if you think Jim doesn't call BudGirl names is because he's afraid to face her in person then we'll just have to mark it down as yet another thing you just don't understand... We're talking about a guy who would go after a TRex with a Louisville Slugger if he was hungry enough...

But don't get too hard on yourself... There's lots of other whiney butts running around in the TZ... Clarks has got nothing on a bunch of them... Proof positive that umpty odd hundred posts don't automatically confer expert status...

so if I would have said your "favorite" team (which to me is implied), then it is not whiney? Still don't know where the whine is?

Budgirl said basically said the same thing I did, admittedly in a nicer way. I said bullshit, ooooooo

[BudGirl]

so if I would have said your "favorite" team (which to me is implied), then it is not whiney? Still don't know where the whine is?

Budgirl said basically said the same thing I did, admittedly in a nicer way. I said bullshit, ooooooo

Do me a favor, and leave me out of your discussion.

[Randy Watson]

One factor is that Hunsicker kept trading everyone for his win now deals.  Buck is doing well, but I can't think of any Astros position players from those deals that have gone on to be really good. 

Carlos Guillen has been a very good player. 

[ASTROCREEP]

The big thing they tried for in 06 was Tejada.  Purpura's inexperience may have tripped him up there, not knowing the Orioles are idiots.  Also, Carlos Lee was a deadline attempt.  The trade for Huff, although he wasnt the spark they expected, was a coup for Purpura.  The Astros haven't had many minor league position players pan out in recent years.  One factor is that Hunsicker kept trading everyone for his win now deals.  Buck is doing well, but I can't think of any Astros position players from those deals that have gone on to be really good.  Luke Scott, Jason Lane, Chris Burke, even Morgan Ensberg have all at one time been fan darlings.  They're all superstars before they start.   I don't think people are paying enough attention to the success of Wandy Rodriguez, Chris Sampson, and Chad Qualls.  Brad Lidge is a miracle of patience for the Astros farm system.

Yeah, I can see how Hunsicker did deplete the farm, but it did get us in the WS. NOW Uncle Drayton just might have to understand that if he wants the WS exposure again they have to re-build a little.

[ASTROCREEP]

Do me a favor, and leave me out of your discussion.

sure, I was waiting for that. Didn't expect you to jump in with me.

You avatar makes me uncomfortable.

[BudGirl]

sure, I was waiting for that. Didn't expect you to jump in with me.

You avatar makes me uncomfortable.

I had my discussion yesterday, today is a new day.

And as I have said before I don't care what anyone else thinks of my avatar, especially with threads like the Cano one.

[pravata]

Yeah, I can see how Hunsicker did deplete the farm, but it did get us in the WS. NOW Uncle Drayton just might have to understand that if he wants the WS exposure again they have to re-build a little.

Lee?  Jennings pitched around 200 innings in every season he didnt break a finger.  Trading for him implied a committment to signing him as an FA. They're not trading Burke, they're not trading Lidge.  Both of those players are young.  They gave Scott and Ensberg a chance.  They believed in Wandy Rodriguez and Chris Sampson, and they are solid citizens in the rotation.  And they've brought up Pence.  In spite of plans to go slower with him.  What exactly do you suggest they should have done differently?  Trade Scott after what he did last season?  Trade Lidge, in spite of the belief, well supported now, that he could again be an effective reliever?  Trade Lane, for what?  They tried trading Ensberg, no takers.   I really dont see anything specific in your complaint.

[MusicMan]

You avatar makes me uncomfortable.

For some reason, coming from you, this makes me laugh out loud.

[T. J.]

You avatar makes me uncomfortable.

Feeling a little tingly?

[ASTROCREEP]

Lee?  Jennings pitched around 200 innings in every season he didnt break a finger.  Trading for him implied a committment to signing him as an FA. They're not trading Burke, they're not trading Lidge.  Both of those players are young.  They gave Scott and Ensberg a chance.  They believed in Wandy Rodriguez and Chris Sampson, and they are solid citizens in the rotation.  And they've brought up Pence.  In spite of plans to go slower with him.  What exactly do you suggest they should have done differently?  Trade Scott after what he did last season?  Trade Lidge, in spite of the belief, well supported now, that he could again be an effective reliever?  Trade Lane, for what?  They tried trading Ensberg, no takers.   I really dont see anything specific in your complaint.

Do you really want to keep going with this?  '06, they only added Wilson, ok fine Wilson was practilly camping out on Pups door step.
They really had a chance to make another run, was Wilson the BEST THEY COULD DO???

The point of my original post in this thread was...   don't rest on your lorels. (what the fuck is lorel, and how do you spell it)

[ASTROCREEP]

Feeling a little tingly?

I keep trying not to look, but Brad is a hansome man.

[pravata]

Do you really want to keep going with this?  '06, they only added Wilson, ok fine Wilson was practilly camping out on Pups door step.
They really had a chance to make another run, was Wilson the BEST THEY COULD DO???

The real complaint is don't rest on your lorels. (what the fuck is lorel, and how do you spell it)

Laurels.  And no, I dont want to continue because you're not paying attention.  You are, in fact, whining.  Signing Preston Wilson was widely recognized as an excellent move by the Astros.  And they tried to trade for Tejada and also Lee.  It didn't get done, but not because the Astros didn't want it done.   They were able to trade for Huff and they got Clemens to pitch for another half season, they brought up Luke Scott.  So, no, Preston Wilson was not the best nor the only thing they could do. 

[ASTROCREEP]

Laurels.  And no, I dont want to continue because you're not paying attention.  You are, in fact, whining.  Signing Preston Wilson was widely recognized as an excellent move by the Astros.  And they tried to trade for Tejada and also Lee.  It didn't get done, but not because the Astros didn't want it done.   They were able to trade for Huff and they got Clemens to pitch for another half season, they brought up Luke Scott.  So, no, Preston Wilson was not the best nor the only thing they could do. 

Then we both agree, the correct thing to do for '06 was to atleast TRY to improve the team? Right?

You say Pup did try. Fine I can believe that.

[pravata]

Then we both agree, the correct thing to do for '06 was to atleast TRY to improve the team? Right?

You say Pup did try. Fine I can believe that.

Was THAT really what you needed convincing of?  Fuck.  rehashing Garner's dismissive "because I wanted to lose" is all that deserves. 

[Ty in Tampa]

And as I have said before I don't care what anyone else thinks of my avatar, especially with threads like the Cano one.

I like your avatar. Now, the one with the guy kicking around in the surf, not so much.

[VirtualBob]

We're talking about a guy (Jim R) who would go after a TRex with a Louisville Slugger if he was hungry enough...

I'm thinking that if Jim finds a TRex with a Louisville Slugger, he should try to find out whether he can play 3B.