3rd Base Coaching

[ASTROCREEP]

OK, the CORRECT play would have been to allow the runner to round 3rd, then apply stop sign about 10 ft. from 3rd, RIGHT!?
Jim R.?


Anyway, a wins a win.

[Curly]

No outs, if he fields the ball cleanly there is a play at the plate.  No risking having 1 out with a double play hiding behind the bushes.

[ASTROCREEP]

No outs, if he fields the ball cleanly there is a play at the plate.  No risking having 1 out with a double play hiding behind the bushes.

Read my post again. Manzollino applied the stop sign before Loretta got to third. I THINK the correct coaching technique is apply the STOP SIGN AFTER the runner rounds third.

[TheWizard]

Read my post again. Manzollino applied the stop sign before Loretta got to third. I THINK the correct coaching technique is apply the STOP SIGN AFTER the runner rounds third.

I'm not sure there is a sign for run halfway then check back.. its go or stop.  There were no outs, woulda been a close play if it was fielded cleanly.  It would have been great baserunning on Loretta's part if he had done like you said.. ran halfway then stopped, but I'm not completely sure that is on Manzollino.

[Noe]

Read my post again. Manzollino applied the stop sign before Loretta got to third. I THINK the correct coaching technique is apply the STOP SIGN AFTER the runner rounds third.

Nope.  You apply the stop sign as soon as you see the outfielder field the ball and then look to see where  your runner is.  It's about the outfielder, not the runner first.

[ASTROCREEP]

Nope.  You apply the stop sign as soon as you see the outfielder field the ball and then look to see where  your runner is.  It's about the outfielder, not the runner first.

Manz appeared to apply the stop sign before the ball got to the fielder, assuming he would catch it clean. Bad assumption I think.

[JimR]

OK, the CORRECT play would have been to allow the runner to round 3rd, then apply stop sign about 10 ft. from 3rd, RIGHT!?
Jim R.?

it depends. if i was not sure if i was going to send him, i wanted him to round it hard and i would stop him down the line if i decided not to send him.

if i knew i was stopping him, i would stop him right away.

[Noe]

Manz appeared to apply the stop sign before the ball got to the fielder, assuming he would catch it clean. Bad assumption I think.

Not if there is no outs.  It is what you're supposed to do if you see the fielder getting to the ball cleanly and ready to throw.  With one out or two, you may go ahead and send him, but with no one out, you never put your runner in the position to be the first out by way of the basepaths.

[homer]

Manz appeared to apply the stop sign before the ball got to the fielder, assuming he would catch it clean. Bad assumption I think.

Bad assumption that a major league CF not named Burke would field a line drive cleanly? You're nuts.

[ASTROCREEP]

it depends. if i was not sure if i was going to send him, i wanted him to round it hard and i would stop him down the line if i decided not to send him.

if i knew i was stopping him, i would stop him right away.

That's what I remember from High School, maybe it's something the pros don't do, injury $ risk?

[ASTROCREEP]

Bad assumption that a major league CF not named Burke would field a line drive cleanly? You're nuts.

That dive in center was pretty pathetic tonight. But what else can you do, throw Lane out there, maybe slightly better D?

[Limey]

OK, the CORRECT play would have been to allow the runner to round 3rd, then apply stop sign about 10 ft. from 3rd, RIGHT!?
Jim R.?


Anyway, a wins a win.

That's basically how JD called it.  Said that, if Manz could do it over again, he'd get further down the line so he could wait for the pick up (or not, in this case) by the outfielder and make the call then.

It's possible that Manz just got a little lazy, and/or had the pre-conceived notion that he'd not send Loretta on a grounder because of the outs, unless it split the outfield.  Borchard reportedly has a plus arm, too.  Turns out what he really needed was a louder voice.

[Kent's Moustache]

Borchard reportedly has a plus arm, too.

Anyone who watched Stanford football in the 90s would be inclined to agree, I think.

[MikeyBoy]

No outs, bottom of the 9th, sharply hit ball to a fairly drawn in right fielder with a plus arm means the runner is getting the stop sign. If anything, Loretta could have been a little more aggressive with his turn instead of just stopping and looking at his shoes.

[Mr. Happy]

No outs, if he fields the ball cleanly there is a play at the plate.  No risking having 1 out with a double play hiding behind the bushes.

Agreed. At the time, Mansolino was probably thinking about sending Biggio in Philly and having him be thrown out (even though he may have been safe). No reason to make the first out at third or at home, especially with a big bat coming up.

[Noe]

No reason to make the first out at third or at home, especially with a big bat coming up.

EGGSZACTLY!

[ASTROCREEP]

EGGSZACTLY!

OK, you guys aren't getting my original post. The correct play IS to hold the runner.

THE QUESTION is WHEN do you put up the stop sign. I think AFTER Loretta rounds 3rd, with Manz standing down the line a bit. If that would have happen, Manz should have recognized the miss-played ball Loretta scores, game over.

[Waldo]

I'm not sure there is a sign for run halfway then check back

In situations like this, the third base coach slightly cheats down the base line toward home so that he is in front of the runner when he rounds third.

[JimR]

OK, you guys aren't getting my original post. The correct play IS to hold the runner.

THE QUESTION is WHEN do you put up the stop sign. I think AFTER Loretta rounds 3rd, with Manz standing down the line a bit. If that would have happen, Manz should have recognized the miss-played ball Loretta scores, game over.

not necessarily. i saw the replay. the RF was in pretty close and has a good arm. if the 3rd base coach had already made up his mind to stop him for any of the many reasons stated, the correct play is to stop him immediately. ONLY if the coach is undecided does he have him come around 3rd hard.

[WulawHorn]

The summer league team I was with had a sign for what you described Jim- with the guy not having made up his mind yet- it was left hand up like stop sign, right hand windmilling like go sign- it meant that they wanted him to take a hard turn and see what happened- usually when they were flashing that sign they were also halfway down the line cheating.

[JimR]

it was left hand up like stop sign, right hand windmilling like go sign-

i would never do this.

[Noe]

THE QUESTION is WHEN do you put up the stop sign.

When you, as a thrid base coach, make up your mind what you want to do with the runner.  If that means before he reaches third, then so be it.  Again, the important thing to look for as a coach is where the outfielder is in terms of picking up the ball and being ready to fire home.  Then you pick up the runner.  If you see the outfielder is shallow, getting to the ball quickly and will probably come up firing, then by all means put the hands up as fast as you can.

[ASTROCREEP]

not necessarily. i saw the replay. the RF was in pretty close and has a good arm. if the 3rd base coach had already made up his mind to stop him for any of the many reasons stated, the correct play is to stop him immediately. ONLY if the coach is undecided does he have him come around 3rd hard.

Got it. BIG gun in Right, Loretta's not very fast. 0 outs.

Why not adopt the same approch, you do with batters who hit a routine grounder to SHORT, always run it out, because you never know when the fielder is going to bobble it, or throw it away.

Maybe Manz and Loretta take the aggressive turn around 3rd then guy with the cannon 1. bobbles the ball or 2. throws it to the back stop. Give yourself an opportunity to score on a botched play.

[Noe]

Why not adopt the same approch, you do with batters who hit a routine grounder to SHORT, always run it out, because you never know when the fielder is going to bobble it, or throw it away.

You don't score a run when hustling to first base, especially the *winning run*.  Big difference.

[JimR]

Got it. BIG gun in Right, Loretta's not very fast. 0 outs.

Why not adopt the same approch, you do with batters who hit a routine grounder to SHORT, always run it out, because you never know when the fielder is going to bobble it, or throw it away.

Maybe Manz and Loretta take the aggressive turn around 3rd then guy with the cannon 1. bobbles the ball or 2. throws it to the back stop. Give yourself an opportunity to score on a botched play.

ok. i officially give up.

[WulawHorn]

Jim- didn't say I liked the sign- just that is what they did. I asked the 3b coach what the heck he was doing (as I'd never seen the sign before) and he told me and I saw the logic in it, but wondered if it might lead to confusion.  Never actually did, but who knows, just thought it was interesting as they had a sign for what you were basically talking about, which I read as- "gimme a second- I'm not sure what I'm going to do".

I want to say that most of the time when this sign came up they ended up putting on the brakes- it was kinda the default to see if the OF was going to make a clean play, but they wanted to keep the guy running in case there was a bobble.

[MRaup]

Jim- didn't say I liked the sign- just that is what they did. I asked the 3b coach what the heck he was doing (as I'd never seen the sign before) and he told me and I saw the logic in it, but wondered if it might lead to confusion.  Never actually did, but who knows, just thought it was interesting as they had a sign for what you were basically talking about, which I read as- "gimme a second- I'm not sure what I'm going to do".

I want to say that most of the time when this sign came up they ended up putting on the brakes- it was kinda the default to see if the OF was going to make a clean play, but they wanted to keep the guy running in case there was a bobble.

I can speak from personal experience with the Coach. His method was to wait until the last second to decide on plays like that one.

You'd be chugging to third, and as you took your round of 3rd, he'd be about 1/3 of the way down the line toward home either flailing away or waving a pair of red flags screaming "THE BRIDGE IS OUT!" Ahnuld style.

Never any unsure signals.

Of course, the flailing backpedal sending people home can lead toward disaster for the basecoach too... Maybe if you ask nice, he'll tell you the story.

[austro]

Of course, the flailing backpedal sending people home can lead toward disaster for the basecoach too... Maybe if you ask nice, he'll tell you the story.

A Lasorda moment?

[JimR]

I can speak from personal experience with the Coach. His method was to wait until the last second to decide on plays like that one.

You'd be chugging to third, and as you took your round of 3rd, he'd be about 1/3 of the way down the line toward home either flailing away or waving a pair of red flags screaming "THE BRIDGE IS OUT!" Ahnuld style.

Never any unsure signals.

Of course, the flailing backpedal sending people home can lead toward disaster for the basecoach too... Maybe if you ask nice, he'll tell you the story.

you, sir, do dastardly deeds at times. how can i not tell it now?

we were playing Boerne at Wolff Stadium in SA in a third round playoff game. the score was 0-0, the game was tense and we finally had a chance to score. the ball was in the OF, and my runner was nearing third.  we worked on this in practice, and he did not slow down rounding third. i backpedaled down the line, waving him on as i was deciding what to do. just about the time i threw up the stop sign, i backpedaled into a sprinkler head depression and fell. Backwards. Hard. On my butt. i did a backwards roll with my feet hurtling over my head, my glasses went flying, and i wound up on my stomach facing my bemused runner who had stopped and returned to the bag to watch the catastophe unfold. i climbed to my feet hoping that no one had been filming that play. my "concerned" players had, as one, collapsed in laughter on the bench. leading the hilarity was none other than the 1B, Mark Raup. it was quite a Kodak moment, and the Boerne crowd gave Mark hell about me for the rest of the game.

this pratfall is mentioned in the last Dugout article i wrote. oh, we won the game 3-0.

[Limey]

Of course, the flailing backpedal sending people home can lead toward disaster for the basecoach too... Maybe if you ask nice, he'll tell you the story.

[Missing YouTube clip of LaSorda falling on his fat arse at the ASG]

[DVauthrin]

you, sir, do dastardly deeds at times. how can i not tell it now?

we were playing Boerne at Wolff Stadium in SA in a third round playoff game. the score was 0-0, the game was tense and we finally had a chance to score. the ball was in the OF, and my runner was nearing third.  we worked on this in practice, and he did not slow down rounding third. i backpedaled down the line, waving him on as i was deciding what to do. just about the time i threw up the stop sign, i backpedaled into a sprinkler head depression and fell. Backwards. Hard. On my butt. i did a backwards roll with my feet hurtling over my head, my glasses went flying, and i would up on my stomach facing my bemused runner who had stopped and returned to the bag to watch the catastophe unfold. i climbed to my feet hoping that no one had been filming that play. my "concerned" players had, as one, collapsed in laughter on the bench. leading the hilarity was none other than the 1B, Mark Raup. it was quite a Kodak moment, and the Boerne crowd gave Mark hell about me for the rest of the game.

this pratfall is mentioned in the last Dugout article i wrote. oh, we won the game 3-0.

Fine work mark, way to not let dad get off the hook easy.