Author Topic: Copa Mundial 2010  (Read 89714 times)

Tralfaz

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Copa Mundial 2010
« on: June 10, 2010, 12:15:04 pm »
Happy World Cup Eve all.

It's hard not to think the final will come down to Brasil v Espania, but there are always suprises in store.  I like Uruguay over France tomorrow, as the French may have already surrendered.  Gotta go with my home boys over England Saturday, just because.  Holland are my dark horse with Ribbery, Robben and Snieder running riot on everyone.  Messi will
wilt without his Barcalona supporting cast, and hell Maradona is bat ass crazy.  Injuries to Drogba and Nani will weigh heavy on the Ivory Coast and Portugal.  The ball is a ball, quit yer cryin' keepers and I'll take the over on the number of super models in attendence to fawn over Ronaldo's abb's.

This monster will be covered like no other sporting event in history, can't wait!
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Limey

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 12:26:14 pm »
Here is an awesome "wall chart", which is a great interface for finding out who, what, where and when.
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Alkie

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2010, 12:33:36 pm »
Very cool.

Problem is, it's in English and I can only read in Spanish, Italian, or Portuguese when looking at American Soccer stuff.

CarolinaStro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 12:39:52 pm »
My favorite sporting event but just makes it that much more painful when my team exits.  Four years is a long wait for "maybe next time".  Hope the injuries and bad ref calls stay to a minimum (though that injury ship has sailed).  US fans don't dispair when/if they lose Saturday as getting to the knockout stages is the real objective.  Good luck to your country whoever they might be.

Viva Espana!  La Furia Roja !!!

CarolinaStro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2010, 12:50:34 pm »
Messi will wilt without his Barcalona supporting cast, and hell Maradona is bat ass crazy. 

Supposedly Maradona is going with three forwards and only three in front of the keeper...will be some wild games with them once the knockout rounds start.

Bet against Messi at your own risk.

Oh and fuck Ronaldo.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2010, 12:54:10 pm »
Here is an awesome "wall chart", which is a great interface for finding out who, what, where and when.

What are those in central time?  Are we 8 hrs back?

Limey

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2010, 01:01:02 pm »
What are those in central time?  Are we 8 hrs back?

Correct...ion

7 hours.  20:30 games kick off at 1:30pm CDT.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 01:09:36 pm by Limey »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2010, 01:36:11 pm »
Correct...ion

7 hours.  20:30 games kick off at 1:30pm CDT.

I looked it up too, and what I saw said South Africa is GMT+2 (I thought it was +1).  But an online clock showed them only 7 hours ahead...UK is 6...damn summer time!

Plus, it's fall there...who lives in such places?

chuck

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2010, 01:51:31 pm »
After careful consideration I think I am adopting Uruguay this time around.
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Tralfaz

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2010, 02:10:22 pm »
Bet against Messi at your own risk.

A fools bet for sure, but while he excels under the Barca system that is built to provide for him, I have yet to see it translate when he puts on an Argentina shirt.  Speaking of fools, I think it's absolutely shocking that Maradona has been given the reigns to this team.  
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CarolinaStro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2010, 02:26:25 pm »
A fools bet for sure, but while he excels under the Barca system that is built to provide for him, I have yet to see it translate when he puts on an Argentina shirt.  Speaking of fools, I think it's absolutely shocking that Maradona has been given the reigns to this team.  

When God himself works through you (or his hand anyways), I guess that qualifies you to be a futbol coach.

Messi may not have Xavi or Iniesta feeding him but he won't be going up against anyone like Inter, ManU, or Chelsea so it is all relative.  They are the type that may win it all or not even make it out of their group.

Limey

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 02:35:11 pm »
After careful consideration I think I am adopting Uruguay this time around.

They're in the Group of Death™, but the Cote d'Ivoire became a little less deadly when Drogba went down with elbow-knack.
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CarolinaStro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2010, 02:50:18 pm »
They're in the Group of Death™, but the Cote d'Ivoire became a little less deadly when Drogba went down with elbow-knack.

Someone has hit the pub a little early...unless France, Mexico, and South Africa are now scary.  To be fair, any Group of Death with North Korea regardless of Brazil, IC, and Portugal isnt much of G.o.D anyways.

Limey

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2010, 03:01:15 pm »
Someone has hit the pub a little early...unless France, Mexico, and South Africa are now scary.  To be fair, any Group of Death with North Korea regardless of Brazil, IC, and Portugal isnt much of G.o.D anyways.

IIRC, no host nation has ever failed to reach the round of 16.  That includes 2002 when both Japan and South Korea made it to the knockout stage.  Underestimate South Africa, and their home field advantage, at your peril.  France and Mexico are strong contenders for the second round too, so two teams are going to be disappointed.
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CarolinaStro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2010, 03:05:44 pm »
IIRC, no host nation has ever failed to reach the round of 16.  That includes 2002 when both Japan and South Korea made it to the knockout stage.  Underestimate South Africa, and their home field advantage, at your peril.  France and Mexico are strong contenders for the second round too, so two teams are going to be disappointed.
I dont disagree with any of that...I thought you misplaced Uruguay in with Ivory Coast's group.

Limey

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2010, 03:55:22 pm »
I dont disagree with any of that...I thought you misplaced Uruguay in with Ivory Coast's group.

I did.  I was just breezing by my own error.
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Rebel Jew

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2010, 11:12:00 pm »
Hey young world!  I'm waking up at 6:00 am Oakland time tomorrow, or 1213413412 GMT to travel to SF to watch the Mexico game.  In case I don't make it back and this ends up being my last post ever-- go 'stros, go life, built to spill there's nothing wrong with love.

Limey

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2010, 11:36:40 pm »
Hey young world!  I'm waking up at 6:00 am Oakland time tomorrow, or 1213413412 GMT to travel to SF to watch the Mexico game.  In case I don't make it back and this ends up being my last post ever-- go 'stros, go life, built to spill there's nothing wrong with love.

Salud.
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chuck

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2010, 12:48:42 am »
Hey young world!  I'm waking up at 6:00 am Oakland time tomorrow, or 1213413412 GMT to travel to SF to watch the Mexico game.  In case I don't make it back and this ends up being my last post ever-- go 'stros, go life, built to spill there's nothing wrong with love.

They don't have cable TV in Oakland? You're going to root vocally for South Africa in a Valencia Street bar? State funding cuts have not meant that BART suspends early service on Fridays?

So many questions.
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Lurch

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2010, 08:45:45 am »
ESPNs coverage is shit so far this morning.  Dropped/bad audio, dropped video feeds, playing the wrong clips, etc
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T. J.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2010, 08:50:50 am »
Has anybody (Limey) found a way to stream the matches on your iPhone?  Apparently ITV has a free app, but it appears to be available only in the UK.

Tralfaz

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2010, 09:28:07 am »
ANyone have an online link for this?
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Bench

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2010, 09:28:12 am »
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

Lurch

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2010, 09:44:10 am »
IIRC, no host nation has ever failed to reach the round of 16. 

Perhaps we just saw why
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Lurch

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2010, 10:17:01 am »
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
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Ty in Tampa

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2010, 10:17:05 am »
SA strikes first!
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Bench

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2010, 10:22:15 am »
SA strikes first!

No host nation has either (1) lost it's first game or (2) failed to make it out of the group.

Tough plowing for Alkie's gauchos.
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Ty in Tampa

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2010, 10:22:52 am »
Great save by the SA GK!
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Ty in Tampa

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2010, 10:41:22 am »
Mexico ties it!
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Alkie

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2010, 10:41:34 am »
Finally.

Bench

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2010, 10:46:01 am »
Mexico is 3-18-5 all time when allowing the first goal in a World Cup match.
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Lurch

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2010, 10:52:26 am »
He'll have nightmares about that miss at 89:20
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Alkie

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2010, 10:54:27 am »
There are about 12 reasons I hate this silly fucking sport.

Ties is at the top.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2010, 10:55:27 am »
This is an awesome match!  Rare for opening matches usually as most squads will play defensively and try to minimize mistakes.  These two squads are playing all out, the type of match that wins the hearts of neo-fans too!

Ty in Tampa

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2010, 10:55:57 am »
It's over. 1-1.
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Lurch

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2010, 10:56:53 am »
There are about 12 reasons I hate this silly fucking sport.

Ties is at the top.

Exactly.
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Noe

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2010, 10:57:20 am »
There are about 12 reasons I hate this silly fucking sport.

Ties is at the top.

This is different though, these two squads are not *playing* for a tie.  I didn't like the old college four corners strategy either, but I understood it at the end of the day.  But this time, this match, these two were not playing to tie, they were playing to win.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2010, 10:59:05 am »
It's over. 1-1.

Mexico is going to need a week to recover from running all around the pitch chasing these S. Afrikaners.  These guys were flying all around the pitch!

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2010, 11:02:20 am »
When does France-Uruguay start?  That's going to be a wild one as well.  What a tough group.
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Ty in Tampa

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2010, 11:03:33 am »
When does France-Uruguay start?  That's going to be a wild one as well.  What a tough group.

2PM EDT
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Alkie

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2010, 11:11:08 am »
This is different though, these two squads are not *playing* for a tie.  I didn't like the old college four corners strategy either, but I understood it at the end of the day.  But this time, this match, these two were not playing to tie, they were playing to win.

Ok, that's fine.  But this is the tournament.  The one they only hold every four years.   Play it out.   This isn't Little League.  There should be a winner and a loser.   Who are they protecting with this tie shit?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2010, 11:12:16 am »
Ok, that's fine.  But this is the tournament.  The one they only hold every four years.   Play it out.   This isn't Little League.  There should be a winner and a loser.   Who are they protecting with this tie shit?

Just a couple more games, Alkie.  Then there will be no more ties.
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Alkie

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2010, 11:15:09 am »
Just a couple more games, Alkie.  Then there will be no more ties.

I get that.  But again, there's all this buildup for this game.   Literally years.   And then..............tie?   No one won?

Go home?   You didn't win.  You didn't lose.   

How is this not like going on a hot date with a person who is really in to you and then agreeing, without sex, to never meet again?   

Tie?   We tied?  Sorry, folks, we weren't clever enough to write an ENDING to this movie.  Go home.

chuck

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2010, 11:16:18 am »
I get that.  But again, there's all this buildup for this game.   Literally years.   And then..............tie?   No one won?

Go home?   You didn't win.  You didn't lose.   

How is this not like going on a hot date with a person who is really in to you and then agreeing, without sex, to never meet again?   

Tie?   We tied?  Sorry, folks, we weren't clever enough to write an ENDING to this movie.  Go home.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2010, 11:19:30 am »
I get that.  But again, there's all this buildup for this game.   Literally years.   And then..............tie?   No one won?

Go home?   You didn't win.  You didn't lose.   

How is this not like going on a hot date with a person who is really in to you and then agreeing, without sex, to never meet again?   

Tie?   We tied?  Sorry, folks, we weren't clever enough to write an ENDING to this movie.  Go home.

Sounds like you need to release all that pent up frustration.  I know just the thing.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2010, 11:22:07 am »
Ok, that's fine.  But this is the tournament.  The one they only hold every four years.   Play it out.   This isn't Little League.  There should be a winner and a loser.   Who are they protecting with this tie shit?

Well, it's not like the NCAA tournament (win or go home).  It is a round robin first round and you advanced by points accumlated.  In a way, you are playing for something... points... in the first round.  You want to assure you're going to advance... then score points.  If you evaluate your group, you have to ask yourself "where will our points come from?".  If you don't think you can beat France, you have to think about playing for a tie (and making sure you use a counter-attack strategy and settle for the tie if you have to, but by no means allow France to score three points with a win).   If you think X amount of points will move you along to the next round, then you need to figure out where you will get at least one three point win.  For Mexico, it may have been against S. Africa and that is why I think they played to win and not to tie.  That a tie happened is not necessarily the thing to look at, it's how they played.  Now Mexico will have to find a win either against France or Uruguay.  Guess what, that is NOT going to be easy.  That makes the next two matches ones to really follow because if Mexico has to open it up (and not play counter-attack but full attack futbol) then goals are going to fall.

Zach, you've got to be excited for the possibilities here and not the fact that this ended in a tie.  Now in the next rounds where it's win or go home, then yeah... you betcha ties are not going to be strategic.  The irony here is that the last thing Mexico wanted was only one point out of this match.  The. Last. Thing.  South Africa is in the same boat, they need a win from Uruguay or France and now most pundits are saying France has a bullseye on it's back from all other teams.

Nice!

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2010, 11:22:12 am »

Alkie

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2010, 11:25:48 am »
If you don't think you can beat France, you have to think about playing for a tie (and making sure you use a counter-attack strategy and settle for the tie if you have to, but by no means allow France to score three points with a win).  

Yeah.  No.  I disagree with this.  If you don't think you can beat France, find a strategy to try to do it anyway.  Can't beat France?  Then you get to stop playing now.   Why should I be excited that proven inferior teams be allowed to move on?

I gotta be honest, this entire thread makes it sound like I'm a lot more invested in this than I am.   Frankly, once the WC ends, I stop thinking about soccer entirely for four more years, so I'll back out now, be happyish when one of my adopted teams wins (not ties), and let those of you that actually care about the sport enjoy it.

Limey

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2010, 11:27:09 am »
Just a couple more games, Alkie.  Then there will be no more ties.

Sooner than you think.  Most 3rd games in the group are win-or-go-home situations.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2010, 11:32:56 am »
I get that.  But again, there's all this buildup for this game.   Literally years.   And then..............tie?   No one won?

Go home?   You didn't win.  You didn't lose.   

How is this not like going on a hot date with a person who is really in to you and then agreeing, without sex, to never meet again?   

Tie?   We tied?  Sorry, folks, we weren't clever enough to write an ENDING to this movie.  Go home.

In the NCAA tournament for baseball, the regionals actually allow teams that *loss* to hang around and play some more and in some cases... even win from a "losers" bracket.  A "losers" bracket?  What?  See all tournaments have their idocyncracies.  In this World Cup tournament, it would be kind of lousy to prepare four years and then get sent home on Day 1.  It may not be everyone's cup of tea admittedly, but there is excitement in this if you look for it.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2010, 11:34:31 am »
Sooner than you think.  Most 3rd games in the group are win-or-go-home situations.

Eggszactly.  If Mexico cannot beat France, but only gets a tie, then they're in a win-or-go home situation against Uruguay because three points won't get you to the next round.  Not in this group.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2010, 11:42:49 am »
Yeah.  No.  I disagree with this.  If you don't think you can beat France, find a strategy to try to do it anyway.

Counter-attack is eggszactly the strategy to beat a team that may be superior to you.  You play your midfielders back instead of in an attack mode and if you draw in the other midfielders and are able to mount a "counter-attack" that develops quickly, you will catch them all *up* and you have a huge chance to win.  You're not trying to lose by any means at any time.  You settle for a tie but try for the win.  It's not that you purposely want a tie, you settle for it if you have to.  Big difference.

Quote
Can't beat France?  Then you get to stop playing now.   Why should I be excited that proven inferior teams be allowed to move on?

You can beat France, just like the USA Hockey team in 1980 beat the Russians (Should USA in 1980 not have been allowed in the tournament at all?).  But you have to employ the best strategy to do so.  If you push up and attack, a good squad like the French will exploit how hard you are pushing up and they have some good strikers and midfielders to make you rue the day you tried to do this.  Strategically, you want to minimize your mistakes by playing back and maximize your chances by counter-attacking.  What happened today with the S. Afrikaners is that they use a counter-attack strategy against the better Mexican side and it worked, almost for a win, but good enough for a tie.  The pressure applied at the end of the match by both sides told you just how much both wanted to win because the next two matches for each are not going to be easy.  Not impossible, just not easy.

Quote
I gotta be honest, this entire thread makes it sound like I'm a lot more invested in this than I am.   Frankly, once the WC ends, I stop thinking about soccer entirely for four more years, so I'll back out now, be happyish when one of my adopted teams wins (not ties), and let those of you that actually care about the sport enjoy it.

Gotcha.  I enjoy the sport and the outcome is conducive to excitement if you look at the entire picture of the tournament play.  This is now set up for some wild matches ahead.  Mexico should have won and that would have made the next two matches a defensive, play for the tie strategy.  Now all bets are off.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2010, 11:59:53 am »
Noe,

What does the Miracle on Ice have to do with this?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2010, 12:03:23 pm »
Noe,

What does the Miracle on Ice have to do with this?

Tournament, round robin, points to advance... inferior beats superior.  Fun!

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2010, 12:04:58 pm »
Fun!

Come on man its flipping soccer!

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2010, 12:07:15 pm »
Noe,

What does the Miracle on Ice have to do with this?

That we can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2010, 12:23:38 pm »
Yes.


You should be a lot less Windows and a lot more Mac about this.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2010, 12:45:18 pm »
And then..............tie?   No one won?


I like to think that everyone won.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2010, 01:10:43 pm »
Ha! Have you seen this new Dodge commercial with Gen. Washington charging the British in a Charger?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2010, 01:18:59 pm »
Ha! Have you seen this new Dodge commercial with Gen. Washington charging the British in a Charger?

Epic Fail.  Now I think I hate us too.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2010, 01:28:27 pm »
Epic Fail.  Now I think I hate us too.

Swing and a miss on the punchline, but it was funny up to that point. 

And, yes, grossly arrogant.  Hopefully only airing in the States (what's youtube?)
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #61 on: June 11, 2010, 01:34:06 pm »
That we can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

I'm far too disinterested in this topic to read through it in its entirety and see if I've been Cabrera'd, so let me just throw this out there: this isn't about Communist subversion, it's a Liberal plot to destroy America...
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2010, 01:44:35 pm »
Does every other country send its own announcers to cover games while the US just takes the British feed because, well, close enough?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2010, 01:48:22 pm »
Does every other country send its own announcers to cover games while the US just takes the British feed because, well, close enough?

Last time the announcers covered the game from a studio in Connecticut.  And the British announcer is the American announcer.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2010, 01:52:22 pm »
You should be a lot less Windows and a lot more Mac about this.

You'd think, wouldn't you.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #65 on: June 11, 2010, 02:19:00 pm »
A draw for South Africa against Mexico is a win for the host nation, imo.  That's Mexico easiest opponent, they needed a win as was apparent from their attacking game plan.  South Africa and their fans are very happy tonight. 

   
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #66 on: June 11, 2010, 02:35:16 pm »
Hey, it's Lurch on the front page of ESPN right now!

ETA: Here is a link, so that when it rotates off the front page you can still see it.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 02:37:13 pm by austro »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2010, 02:44:53 pm »
A draw for South Africa against Mexico is a win for the host nation, imo.  That's Mexico easiest opponent, they needed a win as was apparent from their attacking game plan.  South Africa and their fans are very happy tonight. 

   

I'm happy to see Mexico not get a win.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2010, 02:48:34 pm »
You should be a lot less Windows and a lot more Mac about this.

You mean less suggesting and more loving and pimping unconditionally? I see.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2010, 03:04:06 pm »
Hey, it's Lurch on the front page of ESPN right now!

ETA: Here is a link, so that when it rotates off the front page you can still see it.

I'm sure that guy is much more successful landing the ladies in spite of the unibrow than I ever was.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2010, 03:24:15 pm »
After careful consideration I think I am adopting Uruguay this time around.

No ground lost against the Frenchies. Alkie's favorite score, nil-nil.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2010, 03:25:45 pm »
And the even more pure, 0-0 tie in the France-Uruguay game.  Uruguay did a noble job fending off a furious French attack (sic) despite being one man down the final 10+ minutes of the match.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2010, 04:13:20 pm »
France and Uruguay owe me, and more importantly, my boss, two hours.

Dire shit.  And even though Forlan is a dead ringer for Randy West, he needs Randy's aim because he was way off target today.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2010, 04:48:05 pm »
I'm far too disinterested in this topic to read through it in its entirety and see if I've been Cabrera'd, so let me just throw this out there: this isn't about Communist subversion, it's a Liberal plot to destroy America...

"So put that in your vuvuzela and blow"

I already hate the damn thing.  At least the England's barmy army bring a brass band!
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2010, 04:54:56 pm »
"So put that in your vuvuzela and blow"

I already hate the damn thing.  

No shit.  It's going to be a long month.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2010, 04:57:06 pm »
Swing and a miss on the punchline, but it was funny up to that point. 

And, yes, grossly arrogant.  Hopefully only airing in the States (what's youtube?)

For anyone that missed this ridiculousness.  Chrysler is aiming for that magic demographic of soccer-watching muscle car buyers.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2010, 05:02:02 pm »
For anyone that missed this ridiculousness.  Chrysler is aiming for that magic demographic of soccer-watching muscle car buyers.

The ad is made for the small but dedicated segment of the population that doesn't realize Stephen Colbert is satire.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #77 on: June 11, 2010, 07:09:21 pm »
No ground lost against the Frenchies. Alkie's favorite score, nil-nil.

I like soccer partly because I can really get into a nil-nil game and feel perfectly satisfied with the result.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #78 on: June 11, 2010, 08:18:38 pm »
I like soccer partly because I can really get into a nil-nil game and feel perfectly satisfied with the result.

I've watched nil-nil games that have been spectacular, and 4-3 games that have been total rubbish. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #79 on: June 11, 2010, 08:24:04 pm »
I've watched nil-nil baseball games that have been spectacular, and 4-3 baseball games that have been total rubbish. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2010, 08:57:19 pm »
Hey everybody.  I'm back and alive.  Though apparently you shouldn't yell "go beaners!" in a public place during a Mexico world cup match.  Who knew?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2010, 09:58:13 pm »
Hey everybody.  I'm back and alive.  Though apparently you shouldn't yell "go beaners!" in a public place during a Mexico world cup match.  Who knew?

Just assure anyone whose feathers get a little ruffled that you'll have plenty of work for them in your next video.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2010, 09:34:39 am »
Hey everybody.  I'm back and alive.  Though apparently you shouldn't yell "go beaners!" in a public place during a Mexico world cup match.  Who knew?

The "I <3 AZ" t-shirt probably didn't help.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2010, 10:45:31 am »
I'm sorry, no one else here has a problem with the three-letter abbreviation they use for the African nation of Nigeria?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2010, 11:02:12 am »
I'm sorry, no one else here has a problem with the three-letter abbreviation they use for the African nation of Nigeria?

Are "NIG" or "NGR" any better?  

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #85 on: June 12, 2010, 11:04:08 am »
I'm sorry, no one else here has a problem with the three-letter abbreviation they use for the African nation of Nigeria?

What do they use?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #86 on: June 12, 2010, 11:09:05 am »

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #87 on: June 12, 2010, 11:10:08 am »
I've discovered that if you're American and were planning to root for England, all you have to do is watch about 20 minutes of video of English soccer fans.   I'm about 90% cured.   I have this sinking feeling that by the match today, I'll find it near impossible to root for England.

Dammit.

I was really not planning to root for the Colonists.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #88 on: June 12, 2010, 11:10:14 am »
NGA

Why would I have a problem with that? 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #89 on: June 12, 2010, 11:11:14 am »
Are "NIG" or "NGR" any better?  

No, I thought about that.  There are few abbreviations that don't say the same thing, but really?   Why not NIA or NIR or NGI?

I mean, c'mon.   Someone in the truck has a say in this shit and decided NGA was a'ok?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #90 on: June 12, 2010, 11:15:07 am »
I mean, c'mon.   Someone in the truck has a say in this shit and decided NGA was a'ok?


Country abbreviations are determined by the United Nations and are maintained by the International Organization for Standardization.  "NGA" is not a creation of ESPN.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #91 on: June 12, 2010, 11:19:42 am »

Country abbreviations are determined by the United Nations and are maintained by the International Organization for Standardization.  "NGA" is not a creation of ESPN.

Is that right?   Then I take it back. 

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #92 on: June 12, 2010, 11:23:54 am »
http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/ctycodes.htm

Niger uses NER which leaves NIR open for Nigeria, but then NI and NR are taken for two letter abbreviations.  In any case, I would be amazed if anyone in Nigeria gave a shit.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #93 on: June 12, 2010, 11:26:40 am »
http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/ctycodes.htm

Niger uses NER which leaves NIR open for Nigeria, but then NI and NR are taken for two letter abbreviations.  In any case, I would be amazed if anyone in Nigeria gave a shit.

Oh I wasn't worried about how the Nigerians felt about it.   I couldn't imagine they gave a fuck what Americans thought.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #94 on: June 12, 2010, 01:35:36 pm »
Let me tell you something.

The USA?  Doesn't play soccer.   This is not our sport.  This is not our tournament.   Let the countries that give a shit have it.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #95 on: June 12, 2010, 01:46:55 pm »
What's up with the ugly florescent orange shoes?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #96 on: June 12, 2010, 01:52:11 pm »
What's up with the ugly florescent orange shoes?

You've not spent much time living in Europe or South America I see.

That color es muy guapo, gracias.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #97 on: June 12, 2010, 01:52:54 pm »
The US defense is completely disorganized. They're going to give up 4 goals today.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #98 on: June 12, 2010, 01:54:02 pm »
The US defense is completely disorganized. They're going to give up 4 goals today.

Minimum.   Should be 2-0 already.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #99 on: June 12, 2010, 01:57:20 pm »
Is South Africa under attack from a giant swarm of bees?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #100 on: June 12, 2010, 01:57:22 pm »
You've not spent much time living in Europe or South America I see.

That color es muy guapo, gracias.

So it's a fashion statement?  Egad.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #101 on: June 12, 2010, 01:58:26 pm »
Is South Africa under attack from a giant swarm of bees?

Reason #4 I hate this silly fucking sport.   And the Oakland Athletics.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #102 on: June 12, 2010, 01:58:46 pm »
Is South Africa under attack from a giant swarm of bees?


Yes...they are South Africanized bees.  They're not really killers, they're just annoying as hell.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #103 on: June 12, 2010, 02:00:13 pm »
Why is the US goalkeeper such a puss?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #104 on: June 12, 2010, 02:00:39 pm »
What are they doing to make that terrible noise?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #105 on: June 12, 2010, 02:01:11 pm »
Why is the US goalkeeper such a puss?

Why don't they stop the clock when there's a timeout on the field?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #106 on: June 12, 2010, 02:01:39 pm »
Why is the US goalkeeper such a puss?

It's part of this silly sport.   These are, almost without question, the best athletes on Earth, but when they get breathed on wrong, they have to pretend they've been injected with deadly poison.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #107 on: June 12, 2010, 02:01:41 pm »
What are they doing to make that terrible noise?


They passed out kazoos. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #108 on: June 12, 2010, 02:02:08 pm »
Why don't they stop the clock when there's a timeout on the field?

Then everyone would know how much time is left in the game
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #109 on: June 12, 2010, 02:02:42 pm »
Why don't they stop the clock when there's a timeout on the field?

Reason #2.

They're called timeclocks.  They've been around for decades and are relatively cheap.  I recommend FIFA look in to those.  It might cut down on the ridiculous, arbitrary "stoppage time" thing (reason #6).

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #110 on: June 12, 2010, 02:03:43 pm »
These are, almost without question, the best athletes on Earth

I don't know...I bet they have lousy hand/eye coordination.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #111 on: June 12, 2010, 02:03:48 pm »

They passed out kazoos. 

If you want to call those kazoos.  They're as long as my arm.   And everyone has one.

You seriously have to wonder who thought this was an awesome idea.   Why not C Battery Night?

HudsonHawk

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #112 on: June 12, 2010, 02:04:57 pm »
Reason #2.

They're called timeclocks.  They've been around for decades and are relatively cheap.  I recommend FIFA look in to those.  It might cut down on the ridiculous, arbitrary "stoppage time" thing (reason #6).

I'm beginning to think soccer is the dumbest sport ever invented. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #113 on: June 12, 2010, 02:06:16 pm »
If you want to call those kazoos.  They're as long as my arm. 

Mine's as long as your arm, but I don't call it "kazoo".
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #114 on: June 12, 2010, 02:07:01 pm »
I'm beginning to think soccer is the dumbest sport ever invented. 

Yeah, you watch enough of it (34 minutes) and you come to that conclusion.   

I had an Englishman explain it to me before.   The game itself is secondary.   The reason everyone gets in to it (the fans, I don't mean the players) is the country-wide tailgating party for each match.   It's about community and alcohol and sex and singing and shit.   Americans tailgate at football games, so we don't need soccer.   It made sense to me, especially since the game itself (soccer) is a fundamental nightmare.   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #115 on: June 12, 2010, 02:07:57 pm »
Mine's as long as your arm, but I don't call it "kazoo".

Half-yard Hudson, that's what they call him.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #116 on: June 12, 2010, 02:08:46 pm »
Half-yard Hudson, that's what they call him.

Piss him off and see how far he can run you down before getting winded?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #117 on: June 12, 2010, 02:10:56 pm »
Holy.
Fucking.
Shit.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #118 on: June 12, 2010, 02:12:43 pm »
Flipped back to the Astros game momentarily.  How did the US score?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #119 on: June 12, 2010, 02:13:03 pm »
Flipped back to the Astros game momentarily.  How did the US score?

You have to see it.


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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #120 on: June 12, 2010, 02:14:29 pm »
Flipped back to the Astros game momentarily.  How did the US score?

The US kicked the ball toward the goal and the English goalkeeper tried some "Ole shit" and it rolled right up his arm into the goal.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #121 on: June 12, 2010, 02:15:07 pm »
The US kicked the ball toward the goal and the English goalkeeper tried some "Ole shit" and it rolled right up his arm into the goal.

Let's be fair here.   USA didn't kick it toward the goal, they kicked it RIGHT AT THE KEEPER.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #122 on: June 12, 2010, 02:16:06 pm »
Let's be fair here.   USA didn't kick it toward the goal, they kicked it RIGHT AT THE KEEPER.

Is the goal keeper going to get shot when he gets back home?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #123 on: June 12, 2010, 02:16:41 pm »
Is the goal keeper going to get shot when he gets back home?

If he was South American, his entire family would already be dead.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #124 on: June 12, 2010, 02:16:47 pm »
He would in Colombia. In England he'll simply be shunned.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #125 on: June 12, 2010, 02:17:06 pm »
The US kicked the ball toward the goal and the English goalkeeper tried some "Ole shit" and it rolled right up his arm into the goal.

So it will be replayed on some ESPN affiliate upteen thousand times?  Maybe I can catch one.
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #126 on: June 12, 2010, 02:17:12 pm »
I didn't know Flea played soccer for England.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #127 on: June 12, 2010, 02:17:48 pm »
Are the goal keepers allowed to wear any gaudy uniform they'd like?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #128 on: June 12, 2010, 02:17:57 pm »
So it will be replayed on some ESPN affiliate upteen thousand times?  Maybe I can catch one.

It's really quite remarkable. You could watch a month of kids' league games and not see a screw-up as egregious.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #129 on: June 12, 2010, 02:18:01 pm »
I didn't know Flea played soccer for England.

One of their best players.

His wife aight.  Or used to be.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #130 on: June 12, 2010, 02:18:39 pm »
Are the goal keepers allowed to wear any gaudy uniform they'd like?

Oui.

Reason #7.   Uniforms?   Why should I know which team the keeper plays for?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #131 on: June 12, 2010, 02:19:50 pm »
Are the goal keepers allowed to wear any gaudy uniform they'd like?

I think it's supposed to be related to the team's color scheme, but it's supposed to be distinctive so that a) other players know he's the keeper (because he enjoys some protection) and b) the referee can easily identify that he's the fellow allowed to use his hands.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #132 on: June 12, 2010, 02:20:23 pm »
I think it's supposed to be related to the team's color scheme, but it's supposed to be distinctive so that a) other players know he's the keeper (because he enjoys some protection) and b) the referee can easily identify that he's the fellow allowed to use his hands.

Right.   USA.   Red, white, blue, and fluorescent orange.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #133 on: June 12, 2010, 02:20:25 pm »
It's really quite remarkable. You could watch a month of kids' league games and not see a screw-up as egregious.

oh.  WOW. 

just WOW.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #134 on: June 12, 2010, 02:21:13 pm »

austro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #135 on: June 12, 2010, 02:21:24 pm »
Right.   USA.   Red, white, blue, and fluorescent orange.

Matches the shoes.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #136 on: June 12, 2010, 02:22:03 pm »
See?

No shit.  How the FUCK did that happen?  Did he have a mini-stroke at that nanosecond?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #137 on: June 12, 2010, 02:23:16 pm »
No shit.  How the FUCK did that happen?  Did he have a mini-stroke at that nanosecond?

It's so bad, you almost have to count it as an own-goal on the keeper.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #138 on: June 12, 2010, 02:26:19 pm »
Fuck England. The queen is a whore.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #139 on: June 12, 2010, 02:27:51 pm »
The U.S. is fortunate to have only allowed 1 goal in the first half.    Their defense has given England way too many good scoring chances.    
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #140 on: June 12, 2010, 02:30:32 pm »
OK...who wants watermelon?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #141 on: June 12, 2010, 02:32:49 pm »
How long is halftime?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #142 on: June 12, 2010, 02:34:21 pm »
The U.S. is fortunate to have only allowed 1 goal in the first half.    Their defense has given England way too many good scoring chances.   

having a real goalkeeper seems to make a difference
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #143 on: June 12, 2010, 02:34:38 pm »
How long is halftime?

Considering no one knows how long the *halves* are, does it matter?

And where are the dancing girls?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #144 on: June 12, 2010, 02:36:45 pm »
having a real goalkeeper seems to make a difference


Gotta be the shoes, Money.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #145 on: June 12, 2010, 02:37:38 pm »
Considering no one knows how long the *halves* are, does it matter?

And where are the dancing girls?

I think it's interesting that over the course of one half of soccer, you've come to the exact same conclusion as I have regarding this sport.

Wait till this ends in a tie and, after 6 months of build up, no one gets to celebrate a goddamn thing.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #146 on: June 12, 2010, 02:39:16 pm »
Why is the USA guy still rolling around on the ground like he's been shot?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #147 on: June 12, 2010, 02:39:26 pm »
It would be legal to go deer hunting in that goalie's outfit.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #148 on: June 12, 2010, 02:40:16 pm »
Why is the USA guy still rolling around on the ground like he's been shot?

See above.

Quick-acting, deadly poison.   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #149 on: June 12, 2010, 02:43:09 pm »
It's clear that Onyewu isn't sufficiently recovered to play at this level. Can we get a real defender in there, please?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #150 on: June 12, 2010, 02:43:38 pm »
It's clear that Onyewu isn't sufficiently recovered to play at this level. Can we get a real defender in there, please?


Where's Mario Williams.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #151 on: June 12, 2010, 02:44:06 pm »
Ok, someone who likes this sport, explain offsides to me.

Why is a team penalized for getting someone wide open and hitting them with a perfect pass ahead/behind the defense?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #152 on: June 12, 2010, 02:44:40 pm »
Where's Mario Williams.

He'd be carded out of the game within 5 minutes. But those 5 minutes would be awesome.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #153 on: June 12, 2010, 02:45:03 pm »
All seriousness aside...is there a range of time a typical soccer game lasts?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #154 on: June 12, 2010, 02:46:09 pm »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #155 on: June 12, 2010, 02:46:10 pm »
All seriousness aside...is there a range of time a typical soccer game lasts?

90 minutes plus a completely arbitrary, rounded-to-a-madeup-minute additional set of minutes based on.....something.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #156 on: June 12, 2010, 02:46:25 pm »
Racist

Thank you.  Where the fuck have you been?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #157 on: June 12, 2010, 02:46:36 pm »
Ok, someone who likes this sport, explain offsides to me.

Why is a team penalized for getting someone wide open and hitting them with a perfect pass ahead/behind the defense?

Wait till you see the offsides trap D
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #158 on: June 12, 2010, 02:46:40 pm »
Ok, someone who likes this sport, explain offsides to me.

Offsides is when a player crosses the opponents blue line before the puck.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #159 on: June 12, 2010, 02:46:51 pm »
Ok, someone who likes this sport, explain offsides to me.

Why is a team penalized for getting someone wide open and hitting them with a perfect pass ahead/behind the defense?

If you're on the attacking half of the field, there must be two defenders (usually the keeper and somebody else) between you and the goal line when a pass is made to you. The point is to keep people from camping out in the box and cherry-picking. Same idea as blue-line offsides in hockey. The key point is that the decision is made when the pass is made, not when you receive the pass.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #160 on: June 12, 2010, 02:47:22 pm »
Ok, someone who likes this sport, explain offsides to me.

Why is a team penalized for getting someone wide open and hitting them with a perfect pass ahead/behind the defense?

This is the main argument I have with my husband (who loves soccer) all the time.  It's a stupid fucking rule.  If you want to control the zones of play, do something like hockey offsides.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #161 on: June 12, 2010, 02:47:40 pm »
Racist

Huh?  Seriously...it's hot as fuck here today...I just cut up a watermelon I've had in the fridge.  It's really good.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #162 on: June 12, 2010, 02:48:06 pm »
If you're on the attacking half of the field, there must be two defenders (usually the keeper and somebody else) between you and the goal line when a pass is made to you. The point is to keep people from camping out in the box and cherry-picking. Same idea as blue-line offsides in hockey. The key point is that the decision is made when the pass is made, not when you receive the pass.

Ok, but why?

If I decide to camp out in the box, I'm not playing defense.   Seems like there's risk/reward there that evens out.   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #163 on: June 12, 2010, 02:48:08 pm »
All seriousness aside...is there a range of time a typical soccer game lasts?

Infinity.  Cubed.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #164 on: June 12, 2010, 02:48:51 pm »
All seriousness aside...is there a range of time a typical soccer game lasts?

Two hours, wall time. Another 35 minutes or so if it goes to OT (which none of these early round games will, much to Alkie's disappointment).
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #165 on: June 12, 2010, 02:49:41 pm »
Here's how you fix soccer:
  • 5 players on each side (4 if someone doesnt show up)
  • field 1/10th the size
  • orange cones for sidelines and goal
  • no goalkeeper
  • max age: 6
  • chaos

Under these terms it is a fantastic sport.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #166 on: June 12, 2010, 02:50:04 pm »
No. 8 for USA is a real pussy.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #167 on: June 12, 2010, 02:50:37 pm »
Kick it at his hands!

austro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #168 on: June 12, 2010, 02:50:52 pm »
Ok, but why?

If I decide to camp out in the box, I'm not playing defense.   Seems like there's risk/reward there that evens out.   

Tradition? I don't know. I see your point about risk/reward, but I don't know the evolution of the current rule.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #169 on: June 12, 2010, 02:51:29 pm »
Here's how you fix soccer:
  • 5 players on each side (4 if someone doesnt show up)
  • field 1/10th the size
  • orange cones for sidelines and goal
  • no goalkeeper
  • max age: 6
  • chaos

Under these terms it is a fantastic sport.

Also, you could make the ball orange, allow players to dribble it with their hands instead of feet, and make the goals round and 10 feet in the air.   Plus, fouls would actually be called consistently (or more so anyway), the sidelines would actually mean something, and at the end of the game, one team would have more points than the other.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #170 on: June 12, 2010, 02:51:30 pm »
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2010, 02:52:32 pm »
No. 8 for USA is a real pussy.

He's from a trailer park in Nacogdoches.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #172 on: June 12, 2010, 02:54:56 pm »
Shit! Altidore has to finish that chance!
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #173 on: June 12, 2010, 02:55:28 pm »
This is actually more enjoyable than i expected
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #174 on: June 12, 2010, 02:56:01 pm »
This is actually more enjoyable than i expected

This thread?  Cause this game is boring as shit.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #175 on: June 12, 2010, 02:56:11 pm »
Tradition? I don't know. I see your point about risk/reward, but I don't know the evolution of the current rule.

I want to be clear, I don't understand it in hockey either.   Same thing.

I mean, look, in basketball, if I decide to stay in the defensive back court and cherry pick, my team is at a massive disadvantage on defense.   The risk is we get scored on easy.   The reward is...the other team fucks up and now WE get the easy score.   

Why is it a bad thing to have a 1 on 1 situation in soccer?   Those so far appear to be the exciting points in the game.   Then someone blows a whistle, a Brazilian holds up a neon flag, I wonder what the fuck happened, and once again I go from being almost thrilled to bored.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #176 on: June 12, 2010, 02:56:42 pm »
Shit! Altidore has to finish that chance!

Poop in his hand.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #177 on: June 12, 2010, 02:56:49 pm »
This thread?  Cause this game is boring as shit.

nobodys making you watch, are they?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #178 on: June 12, 2010, 02:56:54 pm »
I was just told that this is a really fascinating game because its not just being played with physiology, but psychology as well.  So there's that
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #179 on: June 12, 2010, 02:58:44 pm »
nobodys making you watch, are they?

I feel like I have to.  All the hype and everything.  The good thing is, here in another 20 minutes, my team will either have won or lost, and it won't be three hours for no reason.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #180 on: June 12, 2010, 02:59:39 pm »
I was just told that this is a really fascinating game because its not just being played with physiology, but psychology as well.  So there's that


While this is obviously a very physical game, I can't see where it's really a thinking man's game. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #181 on: June 12, 2010, 03:00:13 pm »
Ok, going back to this from the other day...

When this ends 1-1, chuck and Noe are going to feel completely satisfied with this match. 

I want, very badly, to believe that I would too.   But I won't.   I'll feel totally cheated.   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #182 on: June 12, 2010, 03:00:41 pm »
I feel like I have to.  All the hype and everything.  The good thing is, here in another 20 minutes, my team will either have won or lost, and it won't be three hours for no reason.

Really.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #183 on: June 12, 2010, 03:01:12 pm »
Really.

Yes.  It's the same reason I feel compelled to watch ice dancing in the Olympics.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #184 on: June 12, 2010, 03:02:03 pm »
Yes.  It's the same reason I feel compelled to watch ice dancing in the Olympics.

Sorry.  I wasn't asking "really?" I was agreeing with your point.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #185 on: June 12, 2010, 03:03:07 pm »
Yes.  It's the same reason I feel compelled to watch ice dancing in the Olympics.

Not the chicks in the skimpy outfits?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #186 on: June 12, 2010, 03:03:47 pm »
Ok, going back to this from the other day...

When this ends 1-1, chuck and Noe are going to feel completely satisfied with this match. 

I want, very badly, to believe that I would too.   But I won't.   I'll feel totally cheated.   

You know when I feel cheated?  Shootouts.  Let's play an entire game, plus overtime, then have a freethrow contest.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #187 on: June 12, 2010, 03:04:11 pm »
Not the chicks in the skimpy outfits?


Well, there's that too.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #188 on: June 12, 2010, 03:04:16 pm »
Yes.  It's the same reason I feel compelled to watch ice dancing in the Olympics.

Nip slip?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #189 on: June 12, 2010, 03:05:03 pm »
While this is obviously a very physical game, I can't see where it's really a thinking man's game. 

That, ultimately, is what turns me off to this sport.  It's about being a fantastic athlete and being in the right place at the right time.

I get that there are plays and strategy to an extent, but there are so many variables and the lack of protecting the ball carrier make it almost meaningless.   If I'm allowed to reach in and/or grab the guy without penalty, it's just a matter of being in the right place when the ball almost by accident is a fortunate place.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #190 on: June 12, 2010, 03:05:09 pm »

Well, there's that too.

Whew!  I was worried there for a bit.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #191 on: June 12, 2010, 03:05:30 pm »
You know when I feel cheated?  Shootouts.  Let's play an entire game, plus overtime, then have a freethrow contest.

The problem there is it's really two different games.  And shootout is the better of the two
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #192 on: June 12, 2010, 03:05:32 pm »
You know when I feel cheated?  Shootouts.  Let's play an entire game, plus overtime, then have a freethrow contest.

Totally agree.

And yet, I'd rather see a shootout than a fucking tie.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #193 on: June 12, 2010, 03:05:41 pm »
Couple of nice plays by the goalie, there.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #194 on: June 12, 2010, 03:06:03 pm »
It's clear that Onyewu isn't sufficiently recovered to play at this level. Can we get a real defender in there, please?

Seriously.. how have been there no subs for the US yet?  I'd sub out findley as well.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #195 on: June 12, 2010, 03:06:37 pm »
Seriously.. how have been there no subs for the US yet?  I'd sub out findley as well.

You get what you asked for...
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #196 on: June 12, 2010, 03:07:40 pm »
US need a miracle to hold on to a point here.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #197 on: June 12, 2010, 03:07:59 pm »
The guy in the yellow shirt is almost always open.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #198 on: June 12, 2010, 03:08:09 pm »
US need a miracle

That, sir, happened in the first half.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #199 on: June 12, 2010, 03:08:25 pm »
US need a miracle to hold on to a point here.

They need a goal to win the game.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #200 on: June 12, 2010, 03:08:40 pm »
The guy in the yellow shirt is almost always open.

He plays for both teams.

Actually, that would almost kick ass.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #201 on: June 12, 2010, 03:08:51 pm »
Seriously, at this point if you were in the stadium, how could you continue to blow that fucking horn?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #202 on: June 12, 2010, 03:09:49 pm »
He plays for both teams.

Actually, that would almost kick ass.

All-time QB. Fantastic.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #203 on: June 12, 2010, 03:09:53 pm »
They need a goal to win the game.

No, HH.  Don't you see?  A tie is a win because of that thing.   We all get trophies.   We all get pizza party.   We all get to go home to our families.   Except Green; whose family is long dead.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #204 on: June 12, 2010, 03:10:20 pm »
Seriously, at this point if you were in the stadium, how could you continue to blow that fucking horn?

Go drinking with Limey some night.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #205 on: June 12, 2010, 03:12:24 pm »
I'm rooting for England and I'd much rather USA score (than nothing) just so this fucking thing doesn't end in a tie.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #206 on: June 12, 2010, 03:13:38 pm »
How come England is allowed to have twice as many players on the field as USA?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #207 on: June 12, 2010, 03:14:27 pm »
So if there are 15 seconds to go in the game and I'm up 1, and the ball goes out of bounds, I can just hold the fucking thing (out of bounds) until the clock runs out.   How is this cool with you people?   Why doesn't the ball have to be put in play?   ARGH.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #208 on: June 12, 2010, 03:14:36 pm »
Flea complains a lot.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #209 on: June 12, 2010, 03:15:05 pm »
How come England is allowed to have twice as many players on the field as USA?

Three of the players in white are fans that are allowed to use their hands but not their feet.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #210 on: June 12, 2010, 03:15:27 pm »
Flea complains a lot.

We should get him an account here on SnS so he can join this thread.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #211 on: June 12, 2010, 03:16:22 pm »
We should get him an account here on SnS so he can join this thread.

He's the Roy Oswalt of the old country.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #212 on: June 12, 2010, 03:17:25 pm »
He's the Roy Oswalt of the old country.

Rooney already plays for the Yankees.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #213 on: June 12, 2010, 03:19:19 pm »
Everyone!

10!
9!
8!
7!
6!
5!
4!
3!
2!
1!
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #214 on: June 12, 2010, 03:20:20 pm »
Seriously, how hard would it be to have a clock that counts DOWN from 90:00 with a man that stops the goddamn thing during dead balls so we don't have this ridiculous fucking arbitrary stoppage time shit?   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #215 on: June 12, 2010, 03:21:51 pm »
No shit...how do you know when to pull the goalie?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #216 on: June 12, 2010, 03:22:14 pm »
I didn't think I could hate this sport more, but thanks to this grossly overhyped game, congrats. 

Soccer fucking sucks.   If I lived in a country that cared about it, I'd get in to it to be part of the tailgating aspect of it, but this sport it totally unsatisfying.   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #217 on: June 12, 2010, 03:24:05 pm »
Kiss yer sister.  ugh.

Draw.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #218 on: June 12, 2010, 03:24:12 pm »
Well that was fucking pointless.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #219 on: June 12, 2010, 03:25:21 pm »
Well that was fucking pointless.

Real fucking question:  not that it's likely, but of course, it's possible...if all the teams in a group tie every game...how do they pick the "winners" of the group?   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #220 on: June 12, 2010, 03:26:12 pm »
Real fucking question:  not that it's likely, but of course, it's possible...if all the teams in a group tie every game...how do they pick the "winners" of the group?   


I'm sure it's pretty fucking random, like who's girlfriends have the biggest tits.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #221 on: June 12, 2010, 03:26:31 pm »
Real fucking question:  not that it's likely, but of course, it's possible...if all the teams in a group tie every game...how do they pick the "winners" of the group?   

Shootout
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #222 on: June 12, 2010, 03:28:30 pm »
I want to be clear, I don't understand it in hockey either.   Same thing.

I mean, look, in basketball, if I decide to stay in the defensive back court and cherry pick, my team is at a massive disadvantage on defense.   The risk is we get scored on easy.   The reward is...the other team fucks up and now WE get the easy score.   

Why is it a bad thing to have a 1 on 1 situation in soccer?   Those so far appear to be the exciting points in the game.   Then someone blows a whistle, a Brazilian holds up a neon flag, I wonder what the fuck happened, and once again I go from being almost thrilled to bored.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #223 on: June 12, 2010, 03:29:39 pm »
If they allowed a player to sit inside a basketball goal, there wouldn't be much scoring.


Not the same thing.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #224 on: June 12, 2010, 03:29:55 pm »
If they allowed a player to sit inside a basketball goal, there wouldn't be much scoring.



If the goal were 24 feet in diameter there would be.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #225 on: June 12, 2010, 03:35:27 pm »
Plus, fouls would actually be called consistently

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #226 on: June 12, 2010, 03:46:11 pm »
Real fucking question:  not that it's likely, but of course, it's possible...if all the teams in a group tie every game...how do they pick the "winners" of the group?   

I believe that the first tie-breaker is goal differential (goals scored in all 3 games - goals allowed in all 3 games), followed by goals scored, followed by goals allowed. I have no idea what follows that, or what would happen if each and every game in the group ended in, for example, a 1-1 tie. At that point it probably devolves to HH's criterion.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #227 on: June 12, 2010, 03:46:38 pm »
AHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, I got a laugh out of that too. Has he actually been watching the finals this year?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #228 on: June 12, 2010, 04:06:07 pm »
Yeah, I got a laugh out of that too. Has he actually been watching the finals this year?

I said MORE SO.

And the NBA doesn't count as basketball.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #229 on: June 12, 2010, 04:07:26 pm »
I believe that the first tie-breaker is goal differential (goals scored in all 3 games - goals allowed in all 3 games), followed by goals scored, followed by goals allowed. I have no idea what follows that, or what would happen if each and every game in the group ended in, for example, a 1-1 tie. At that point it probably devolves to HH's criterion.

So the point is there is absolutely the chance that all 4 teams could end in a 4 way, unbreakable tie. 

This sport fucking sucks.   I'm sorry, I get this is wildly American of me, and that is disappointing, but this sport is fucking stupid.   It's poorly executed.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #230 on: June 12, 2010, 04:38:10 pm »
Yeah, I got a laugh out of that too. Has he actually been watching the finals this year?

Apparently he quit watching the NBA about twelve years ago. Or at least I did.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #231 on: June 12, 2010, 04:42:09 pm »
Apparently he quit watching the NBA about twelve years ago. Or at least I did.

13 years ago.   I'll watch the Spurs in the playoffs pretty regularly, but try as I might to give a fuck about Celtics/Lakers XVIII; I can't get past a quarter before I lose total interest.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #232 on: June 12, 2010, 05:57:18 pm »
Ok, going back to this from the other day...

When this ends 1-1, chuck and Noe are going to feel completely satisfied with this match. 

I want, very badly, to believe that I would too.   But I won't.   I'll feel totally cheated.   

Seeing as how the Amer-kans are supposed to be vastly superior to Slovenia and Algeria, a tie with England is huge.  Had they not tied, then one of either Slovenia or Algeria would have a great chance to jump the group with 3 points.  That is three very huge three points for those squads and had USA been sitting at zero points today, then it would be very bad for their chances, albeit not impossible.

Honestly, why do you watch?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #233 on: June 12, 2010, 06:02:07 pm »
This is the main argument I have with my husband (who loves soccer) all the time.  It's a stupid fucking rule.  If you want to control the zones of play, do something like hockey offsides.

The rule is simple, the *ball* not the players must be ahead in the field of play.  It would be like asking why in the NFL you're not allowed to just have on guy sitting in the end Zone running around before a play is run or why forward laterals are *NOT* allowed.  The rules aren't dumb (honestly, raise your hand if you think a forward lateral is dumb rule), the rules are just strange to all of you because it isn't the game you like to watch.  

I taught a Frenchman how to watch baseball two years ago in one night.  He thanked me because he said all his American baseball loving fans could never convince him the game was worth his time nor something they could explain enough for him to have any sort of interest.  It took me one night and simple explanations about how the strategy of the game is involved.  He was so interested that before the night was over he would tell me "He's going to... eh... bunt?  Right?"  He was excited because he understood the strategy.  Until you understand the underlying strategy of a game, you'll never be a fan per se or at least understand.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 06:15:11 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #234 on: June 12, 2010, 06:11:46 pm »
So if there are 15 seconds to go in the game and I'm up 1, and the ball goes out of bounds, I can just hold the fucking thing (out of bounds) until the clock runs out.   How is this cool with you people?   Why doesn't the ball have to be put in play?   ARGH.

There is no clock in baseball... imagine that!  But seriously, the only official timekeeper is the ref, no one else matters.  He blows his whistle, the people in the stadium can only guess if the stadium clock started when he blew his whistle.  So that being the case, there is no wild waving of his arm telling someone in the press box to stop or start a clock and no controversy about time left on a clock, et. al., like you have in the NFL or NBA.  You run around for the 90 minutes you get to play that keeps running.  That is it.  That is all the time you get to make a play.  If, however, the ref decides that a player is actually stalling, he can stop his watch.  He will then tell his fellow sideline refs how much stoppage time is left in the game.  Basically, what the stadium clock is showing subtracted from his *official* clock.

One thing that has been unique about futbol is that with no stoppage in the clock (or commercial timeouts), the action is non-stop.  So guess what, most nations do not sell commercial time like we know it here in America.   Basically you don't call timeout because it's time for that Budweiser commercial we all love.  (Next time one of you complains about the Ford Truck commercials on an Astros broadcast, remember this).  So companies who want commercial time during the game buy segments of the match.  Basically, the next 10 minutes of play are brought to you by....

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #235 on: June 12, 2010, 06:12:14 pm »
This thread is hilarious.  It's like Glenn Beck producing an episode of MST3K. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #236 on: June 12, 2010, 06:23:37 pm »
Seeing as how the Amer-kans are supposed to be vastly superior to Slovenia and Algeria, a tie with England is huge.  Had they not tied, then one of either Slovenia or Algeria would have a great chance to jump the group with 3 points.  That is three very huge three points for those squads and had USA been sitting at zero points today, then it would be very bad for their chances, albeit not impossible.

No, I get all that.   I understand the importance of the single point in order to move on to the next round.  We're talking about two different things.   You're talking about (understandably) the point of the first round, as a whole; which of course is to just be one of the two teams in your group with the most "points."   I'm not arguing the importance of the single point.  I'm saying this match today, by itself, happened.   It was a game that had no winner.   

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Honestly, why do you watch?

Because at its core, I think the World Cup is a super fucking cool idea.  I wish every sport did this.   It's a giant World War without guns.  The best of every country comes together for a massive All Star Tournament to decide which country has the biggest penises and therefore gets to have sex with the better looking women.   I think that's great.   But it's like this every four years.   I spend the month leading up to World Cup getting somewhat excited.......and then the games start.   Sometimes I stay interested, but most of the time it's just cross country with a ball.   Again, and I can't stress this enough, if I lived in a place where the people around me treated soccer as religion, I'd almost certainly be balls out huge into it.   I think if I lived in Mexico or spent half my year in Panama, I'd be playing a kazoo as long as HH's arm right now and telling my friends about how amazing it was that USA got out of the England match with a valuable point.   But I live in America, where soccer is the 8th most popular sport (behind shit like tennis and golf).   

Oh, and my wife for some reason is oddly very excited about the Cup, so what am I going to do?   Frankly, if there's a sporting event on, we generally have it on the TV (for Pedro's sake, I'm watching OU play UVA in college baseball right now for some reason) and usually find a reason to pick a team/player/whatever.

I think what also hurts me as a "fan" of soccer is that I know zero of the players.  I know some names, but I know fuckall about the sport (which I think is clear from my posts).   I've noticed that most soccer fans have their clubs of course, but it's a very personality driven sport.   People that don't live in a city with a club will follow a player instead of a team.   Since I don't have any of that, to me, it's just a very disorganized sport with incredibly relaxed and illogical rules (why is the ball out of bounds sometimes but not other times?  Why bother having the white line?) and there's just too much luck for me to wrap my brain around.   Honestly, like a lot of people who hate soccer but are familiar-enough with it, I like the concept of shootouts a hell of a lot more than the game part; just because I can see the point of it.

Player X is trying to beat Player Y at a very specific thing.   Offense vs defense.   It's a score or it isn't.   At the end, the team with the offensive players that scored more (or the defensive player who allowed less) wins.   I get that.   I find that satisfying as a competition.

What I watched today was not satisfying at all from a single-event stand point.   If I just wanted to watch some really really good athletes not win or lose, why are we bothering to have them play against another team?   Why don't we just watch them practice and give them a point?

Look, I'm not trying to convince a single person to hate soccer.  I appreciate soccer in that it's cheap, easy to get in to as kids, and clearly I'm the person who is wrong if 99% of the rest of the world gets it.  I'm totally on board with that.   Trust me, I would love to get soccer.   I just don't.   I get tennis.   I get golf.   I even get (but am bored by) hockey.   I just don't get soccer. 

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #237 on: June 12, 2010, 06:29:37 pm »
There is no clock in baseball... imagine that!

Not even close to the same thing.  If there two outs in the bottom of the ninth and we're winning, I can't just decide to not pitch to the last batter.   I can't just decide the game ends because I don't feel like playing anymore and I'm winning.

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But seriously, the only official timekeeper is the ref, no one else matters.  He blows his whistle, the people in the stadium can only guess if the stadium clock started when he blew his whistle. 

Yeah, then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.   Maybe that's what bugs the shit out of me about soccer; it's faith based.   I like knowing how much time is left.   

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One thing that has been unique about futbol is that with no stoppage in the clock (or commercial timeouts), the action is non-stop.

No.  No, it isn't.  That's exactly the problem.   The action stops CONSTANTLY.   People go down with fake injuries.  The ball goes out of bounds.   There are cards being handed out.  The action stops all....the...time.   But the clock keeps going.  It's maddening.   Why is the clock going while the play is absolutely, without question, stopped?   The ball is being held by an official; it's not in action.

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So guess what, most nations do not sell commercial time like we know it here in America.

No, instead there are commercials duct taped to every surface in the stadium.   Just because the ads aren't packaged as 30 second moving pictures doesn't mean they're not there.

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Basically you don't call timeout because it's time for that Budweiser commercial we all love.  (Next time one of you complains about the Ford Truck commercials on an Astros broadcast, remember this).  So companies who want commercial time during the game buy segments of the match.  Basically, the next 10 minutes of play are brought to you by....

I admit, I like the lack of commercials, but c'mon, Noe.   That's a happy accident.   When they invented soccer, I'm pretty sure they didn't have American television commercials in mind when they decided the clock would never stop.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #238 on: June 12, 2010, 06:33:03 pm »
 If I lived in a country that cared about it, I'd get in to it to be part of the tailgating aspect of it, but this sport it totally unsatisfying.   

yeah cause wearing stupid hats and bouncing up and down with a moron's grin and a flag hanging from your shoulder seems like tons of fun

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #239 on: June 12, 2010, 06:36:35 pm »
There is no clock in baseball... imagine that!  But seriously, the only official timekeeper is the ref, no one else matters.

But there *is* a clock in soccer.  It's just that the length of the game is different every game.  That's dumb.  

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 He blows his whistle, the people in the stadium can only guess if the stadium clock started when he blew his whistle

Then how do the players and coaches know how much time is left?

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One thing that has been unique about futbol is that with no stoppage in the clock (or commercial timeouts), the action is non-stop.

Well, let's not get carried away.  The "action" isn't non-stop, the clock just runs non-stop.  That doesn't mean there's anything to yell about happening on the field.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #240 on: June 12, 2010, 06:39:58 pm »
yeah cause wearing stupid hats and bouncing up and down with a moron's grin and a flag hanging from your shoulder seems like tons of fun

I don't know, man, I like tailgating.

One of the very few things we looked forward to our last year in El Paso was Saturdays during football season.   We got season tix with my dad and uncle and spent the entire day (UTEP always plays at night) getting drunk, eating, singing, etc.   It was a blast and a great way to spend the day.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #241 on: June 12, 2010, 06:42:52 pm »
But there *is* a clock in soccer.  It's just that the length of the game is different every game.  That's dumb.  

Then how do the players and coaches know how much time is left?

Well, let's not get carried away.  The "action" isn't non-stop, the clock just runs non-stop.  That doesn't mean there's anything to yell about happening on the field.

I gotta say, the one I thing I do really like about soccer compared to our major sports is the time-keeping system.  We get so time-obsessed that we end up nit-picking hundreths of a second and stupid shit like that, and of course the last 2 minutes of any football or basketball game is really like 7 hours.  Plus our time systems lead to the TV networks micromanaging things, which has led to the often excrutiating chore of watching an NFL or college basketball game especially.  I like the idea of just letting the clock run and that being that.  Injury time doesn't make that much sense, but again, it's cool that the last 3 minutes of a game really are 3 minutes, and not 777.64 hours.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #242 on: June 12, 2010, 06:44:41 pm »
I wanted to be clear about this:  I'm glad chuck and Noe get this sport and are satisfied with the 1-1 tie.  I mean that.   I can appreciate that it's my own ignorance and not something else.   I can sleep at night knowing that I could learn to love this sport if I understood it.

I'm sure once we move outside the country, we'll be face painting, kazoo blowing, flag waving hooligans.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #243 on: June 12, 2010, 06:45:17 pm »
I don't know, man, I like tailgating.

One of the very few things we looked forward to our last year in El Paso was Saturdays during football season.   We got season tix with my dad and uncle and spent the entire day (UTEP always plays at night) getting drunk, eating, singing, etc.   It was a blast and a great way to spend the day.

I love tailgating too, who doesn't?  I'm just responding to your suggestion that you want to get roped up in tailgating the way the world cup does it, with the stupid hats and the like.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #244 on: June 12, 2010, 06:45:51 pm »
it's cool that the last 3 minutes of a game really are 3 minutes, and not 777.64 hours.

But is it?  Shouldn't the end of the competition be the most exciting? 

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #245 on: June 12, 2010, 06:46:42 pm »
I love tailgating too, who doesn't?  I'm just responding to your suggestion that you want to get roped up in tailgating the way the world cup does it, with the stupid hats and the like.

Well, I mean look, if I really wanted to, I'd have gone down to East Village today and done it.   

I'm just saying if I lived in a place where it was part of what you do the day your team plays in the WC, I'd be all over it.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #246 on: June 12, 2010, 06:52:33 pm »
But is it?  Shouldn't the end of the competition be the most exciting? 

the end of soccer games are exciting.  i like the crazy desperation that goes on, knowing that you only have a certain amount of time and that's it and you have to somehow kick the ball across the field in a hurry.  i think it's dumb the way the nfl does it, and even dumber the way ncaa football does it, where the clock stops all the damn time.  and then with basketball and all the fouling to stop the clock, just give it a rest and accept that in sports one team has to win and one team has to lose.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #247 on: June 12, 2010, 07:36:46 pm »
The rule is simple, the *ball* not the players must be ahead in the field of play.  It would be like asking why in the NFL you're not allowed to just have on guy sitting in the end Zone running around before a play is run or why forward laterals are *NOT* allowed.  The rules aren't dumb (honestly, raise your hand if you think a forward lateral is dumb rule), the rules are just strange to all of you because it isn't the game you like to watch.  

I taught a Frenchman how to watch baseball two years ago in one night.  He thanked me because he said all his American baseball loving fans could never convince him the game was worth his time nor something they could explain enough for him to have any sort of interest.  It took me one night and simple explanations about how the strategy of the game is involved.  He was so interested that before the night was over he would tell me "He's going to... eh... bunt?  Right?"  He was excited because he understood the strategy.  Until you understand the underlying strategy of a game, you'll never be a fan per se or at least understand.

I understand the rule and I understand and agree with the need to have some form of offsides, but I think the way soccer defines offsides is fucking stupid.  As Alkie pointed out, the rule basically says "if the defender is slow and you get ahead of him, that's not allowed" which is why that's an actual strategy some teams / players employ.  I also think the offsides is left to a lot of judgment (why there's so much kvetching about whether or not something is offsides).  I much prefer something like hockey's definition of offsides which says the puck must enter the zone before the offensive player but is not dependent in any way on the behavior of the defenders. 

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #248 on: June 12, 2010, 08:02:48 pm »
the end of soccer games are exciting.  i like the crazy desperation that goes on, knowing that you only have a certain amount of time and that's it and you have to somehow kick the ball across the field in a hurry.  i think it's dumb the way the nfl does it, and even dumber the way ncaa football does it, where the clock stops all the damn time.  and then with basketball and all the fouling to stop the clock, just give it a rest and accept that in sports one team has to win and one team has to lose.

The most irritating thing in sports is the time-out to psych-out the opposing team's kicker on a last minute field goal.  Especially after the offensive team just called a time-out to set-up the kick.  Hate that.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #249 on: June 12, 2010, 08:51:55 pm »
the end of soccer games are exciting.  i like the crazy desperation that goes on, knowing that you only have a certain amount of time and that's it and you have to somehow kick the ball across the field in a hurry.  i think it's dumb the way the nfl does it, and even dumber the way ncaa football does it, where the clock stops all the damn time.  and then with basketball and all the fouling to stop the clock, just give it a rest and accept that in sports one team has to win and one team has to lose.

I totally agree.  I love the fact that time is just time, and it ends when it ends.  American sports have such a precision obsession, as though a hundredth of a second is something that actually exists in the real world, that can be isolated and prepared for and a specific play is drawn up for this for this one concrete and identified microsecond that will start as soon as a ball is inbounded or snapped.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #250 on: June 12, 2010, 08:54:57 pm »
I much prefer something like hockey's definition of offsides which says the puck must enter the zone before the offensive player but is not dependent in any way on the behavior of the defenders.  

They're pretty much the same rule, only the "offsides line" is employed by both teams as a strategy in soccer.  A forward can still be faster than the defender, which happens a lot.  Just prove your speed from the same area after the ball is kicked.

Soccer is a fantastically simple sport with very few rules.  I'm continually amazed at the folks that just "don't understand" it, or find it somehow illogical.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 09:00:50 pm by Bench »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #251 on: June 12, 2010, 10:20:03 pm »
They're pretty much the same rule, only the "offsides line" is employed by both teams as a strategy in soccer.  A forward can still be faster than the defender, which happens a lot.  Just prove your speed from the same area after the ball is kicked.

Soccer is a fantastically simple sport with very few rules.  I'm continually amazed at the folks that just "don't understand" it, or find it somehow illogical.

true, it is very simple.  but soccer players and fans do seem particularly rule-obsessed, despite the relative lack of rules they have.  aside from the obvious attempts at manipulating the rules through flopping and stuff like that, you see players completely stop what they're doing and point any time a rule is broken in the slightest, whether the ref calls it or not.

yesterday while i was watching the france-uruguay game, some irish dude went off on me for a long time about how ireland got jobbed in their game against france to qualify for the world cup.  later when i went home i looked it up to see what he was so upset about, and there's apparently this big controversy where the french player had a really really obvious handball that directly led to a last-minute goal and the ref inexplicably missed it.  and it was totally obvious and the ref did miss it, but what really killed me about the play was that all the irish players, INCLUDING THE GOALIE, just completely stopped once the french dude had the handball and did nothing while the other french dude ACTUALLY SCORED THE GOAL.

you see stuff like this a lot in soccer.  usa did it nonstop today on those offsides calls, where the defenders just let a guy set up behind them, basically strategize to do so, and basically just count on the ref calling it.  at some point common sense needs to set in and you have to just say to yourself, "okay, this may be technically against the rules, but i'm not going to let a guy from the other team get a free shot on my goal."
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 10:24:23 pm by Joey Trum »

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #252 on: June 12, 2010, 10:29:17 pm »
But I live in America, where soccer is the 8th most popular sport (behind shit like tennis and golf).

No you don't, you live in New York City. Next time the Tri plays take the train down to Sunset Park or some other similar nabe.

And before you give up on the whole thing wait until a couple of really good teams play each other. England is pretty good but they were terrible today and the US plays like a bunch of 8 year olds. Wait until you get a Holland versus Brazil sort of matchup and I think you'll be able to see very clearly what the game is all about.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #253 on: June 12, 2010, 10:35:44 pm »
They're pretty much the same rule, only the "offsides line" is employed by both teams as a strategy in soccer.  A forward can still be faster than the defender, which happens a lot.  Just prove your speed from the same area after the ball is kicked.

Soccer is a fantastically simple sport with very few rules.  I'm continually amazed at the folks that just "don't understand" it, or find it somehow illogical.

No, they're not the same rule.  I can have a breakaway in hockey and it's all about me being faster / better than the other athlete.  In soccer, I have to time when I can be a better athlete because the line isn't some objective standard but dependent on the defender.  As a sports fan, I think that's stupid.  What I find amazing is this view that somehow an objection to something in soccer is just b/c people "don't understand".  I understand completely (I've been woken up early by British roommates / husband on Saturdays for the last 15 years to watch the EPL), but I think it's a stupid fucking concept.  I can also never get comfortable with the general pussyness of soccer players.  They're DYING on the pitch until some trainer runs out with the "magic spray" and then all is right with the world.  

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #254 on: June 12, 2010, 10:48:31 pm »
And before you give up on the whole thing wait until a couple of really good teams play each other. England is pretty good but they were terrible today and the US plays like a bunch of 8 year olds. Wait until you get a Holland versus Brazil sort of matchup and I think you'll be able to see very clearly what the game is all about.

I never said I was giving up on it.   We'll get up again tomorrow and piss away another 8 hours watching it again.

Once we get to knockout rounds and no more ties, plus we get rid of a lot of the super el crappo teams, I'll feel a lot better about what I'm watching.


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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #255 on: June 13, 2010, 07:08:19 am »
 It was a game that had no winner.   

Watching my English wife in the room and her family/friends back in Manchester having a party (on skype), there may not have been a winner but trust me there definitely was a loser in this match.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #256 on: June 13, 2010, 07:30:36 am »
Watching my English wife in the room and her family/friends back in Manchester having a party (on skype), there may not have been a winner but trust me there definitely was a loser in this match.

All the people that spent 6 months waiting for it?

ETA:   Whatever.  I get it.  You get it.   England should have won, tied, so they lost.  USA should have lost, tied, so they won.   You guys are satisfied, I'm not.   This really is getting boring.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 07:55:09 am by Alkie »

CarolinaStro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #257 on: June 13, 2010, 08:09:30 am »
All the people that spent 6 months waiting for it?

No doubt that they took it worse than we would have it the US loss, but this will be mostly forgotten in couple of weeks if they still finish top of group.

To be fair, the six months or even the four years part of it isn't really accurate for the avid soccer fan as the club seasons just finished up a few weeks ago.  Nobody is really sitting around waiting just for their national team but rather watching Real Madrid, ManU, Liverpool, Inter, etc... play out their league as well as the champions league (or other tourney).  That is the problem with only watching soccer every four years in the World Cup...you rightfully dont get how Slovenia vs Algeria is the "beautiful game".  Watching Holland, Brazil, or Spain play each other in the knockout stages might help change your perception but in the end probably not.  Anyways...try to make it through the knockout stages...enjoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #258 on: June 13, 2010, 09:15:46 am »
Anyways...try to make it through the knockout stages...enjoy

Having "knockout" stages where there are no winners is part of the problem. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #259 on: June 13, 2010, 09:24:09 am »
Having "knockout" stages where there are no winners is part of the problem.  

There was a typo there (should have been "make it through to the knockout stages"). The "knockout stage" is the final sixteen, where there are no ties; you play until you get a winner. Unfortunately, that may involve the dreaded penalty kick shoot-out.

Speaking of the shoot-out, UIL has changed the way they do it in high school, and perhaps it has changed elsewhere, too. Now, instead of ordinary penalty kicks, the offensive player starts out with the ball about 30 yards away from the goal, and has five seconds to get a shot off. The goalkeeper can (and usually does) leave the line as soon as the whistle blows. It's much more like the hockey penalty shot scenario, and it leads to some interesting plays. They're much less automatic than the usual penalty kick (which often winds up being less automatic than you would think it should be).
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 10:01:20 am by austro »
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CarolinaStro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #260 on: June 13, 2010, 09:46:38 am »
Having "knockout" stages where there are no winners is part of the problem. 

no one is going to argue that penalty kicks is shit way to end a match but such is life in tournament futbol...College football OT isnt any better...starting from your opponents 20 yard line isnt real football either...both are exicting sometimes but doesnt really prove who is the better team

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #261 on: June 13, 2010, 09:58:15 am »
no one is going to argue that penalty kicks is shit way to end a match but such is life in tournament futbol

I'd argue that.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #262 on: June 13, 2010, 10:16:59 am »
But is it?  Shouldn't the end of the competition be the most exciting? 

But excitement to you means outcome and not the actual play (which I fully understand).  You are used to one set of fans leaving the stadium saying "Man, if we only had scored that man from third and second in the ninth, we would have won this game or tied."  Or "Man, it's great how we did not allow them to scored those two runs from second and third in the ninth to secure the win!"  It creates excitement in you to know that while they have two men on, your closer was able to shut the door.  You leave with a *sense* of closure, because you are used to closure being either win or lose. 

I get it.

But why must your need supercede what is a games rules that ties can and will happen and that you, as a fan, start to understand that during tournament play (this is even pretty much standard for season long tournaments up to and including the Premiere League), your team can prepare to face a vastly superior team with a tatic to secure a point moreso than a win.  If so, you watch and see how they strategically play to secure said point.  At some point, you have to secure your wins, and that is basically when you get to the win or go home stages of tournament play. 

It is just different, not worse or better.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #263 on: June 13, 2010, 10:29:18 am »
This Serbia-Ghana game is not one of the beautiful nil-nil endeavors.
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Noe

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #264 on: June 13, 2010, 10:31:54 am »
I understand the rule and I understand and agree with the need to have some form of offsides, but I think the way soccer defines offsides is fucking stupid.  As Alkie pointed out, the rule basically says "if the defender is slow and you get ahead of him, that's not allowed" which is why that's an actual strategy some teams / players employ.  I also think the offsides is left to a lot of judgment (why there's so much kvetching about whether or not something is offsides).  I much prefer something like hockey's definition of offsides which says the puck must enter the zone before the offensive player but is not dependent in any way on the behavior of the defenders. 

No, it's not the defender, it is your forwards can not camp out behind the defense waiting for the ball to catch them.  It's the other way around, *YOU* must catch up to the ball.  One of the beautiful things of watching futbol is how an attack is mounted.  It is exactly like watching the nuances of a the trap play the Steelers run for pretty much two decades now.  If you can accept strategic attack strategies in the NFL, you can definitely accept strategic attack strategies in futbol.  Why this *HAS* to be different in futbol is beyond me.  You have to watch how the backline starts an attack (think of it as a "play" like in the NFL), where does the midfield run to create space, is the attack down the left side or right side or is the middle exposed.  The midfield then usually looks for space to send the ball (not the player, hence the offsides).  Then it is a defender trying to protect *space*.  Usually a coach will decide if his defense will mark *space* or mark a man.  It's rare to have defenders each mark a man, they are responsible for *space* on the pitch, but occasionally, as you saw yesterday, you will spare one man to mark a player (in this case it was Rooney).  By playing space, the forward knows when and where to run into space because it is the midfielders job to place the ball into the space for a the forward to *run on* to the ball.

If a player is offsides, it is because he has decided *not to wait* for the ball and thus the defense has nothing, zero, zilch, nada to do with it.  It is your own forward deciding to negate the play.  Just like in the NFL, an offensive lineman cannot decide to start a play before everyone else, you will get flagged for a *false start*.  Imagine someone watching the NFL for the very first time.

How would you explain a *false start*.  Now map that back how you cannot or will not accept the concept of *offsides* in futbol.  Same difference, however one is not more acceptable than the other.  They are both necessary for the respective games to create a fairness and really to allow defenses a chance to play against a mounting offensive attack.  

It's probably not anyone's cup of tea to watch a game that relies on defensive strategies as much as futbol does (unlike the NFL that relies on offensive strategies), but that is the way the game is played. The onus in futbol is for the offense to mount an attack, not just run down the pitch and camp waiting for the ball.  The entire beauty of futbol is to watch an attack being mounted against the defense.  That is why Brazil has been one of the greatest squads like forever.  They play the game with a style and grace that marvels the fans.  The way they create *space* is brilliant.  The Italians were also known for a strategy that was nicknamed "all attack, all defend" (similar to the Phoenix Suns strategy of run, run, run all the time).

If you watch with understanding, you watch as a fan.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #265 on: June 13, 2010, 10:33:06 am »
I never said I was giving up on it.   We'll get up again tomorrow and piss away another 8 hours watching it again.

Once we get to knockout rounds and no more ties, plus we get rid of a lot of the super el crappo teams, I'll feel a lot better about what I'm watching.



Well, the el crappo teams are still here, but the last two group games for England and USA are "must win".  If either team ties (or loses) against the group minnows, they're going home.   
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #266 on: June 13, 2010, 10:33:40 am »
Watching my English wife in the room and her family/friends back in Manchester having a party (on skype), there may not have been a winner but trust me there definitely was a loser in this match.

Right.  Different, not worse or better.  There is always a loser of sorts, even in a tie.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #267 on: June 13, 2010, 10:34:11 am »
I totally agree.  I love the fact that time is just time, and it ends when it ends.  American sports have such a precision obsession, as though a hundredth of a second is something that actually exists in the real world, that can be isolated and prepared for and a specific play is drawn up for this for this one concrete and identified microsecond that will start as soon as a ball is inbounded or snapped.

I wish I could say things in as simple and concise ways as you guys.

Agreed!

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #268 on: June 13, 2010, 10:34:18 am »
Right, because again, we're talking about two different things.

I'm not sure why this isn't clear in my posts:  I get the point thing and the greater sense thing.   I get how important the game point was in order to move on to the next round. 

I'm not talking about or arguing or misunderstanding that.

I'm saying that the single event that took place yesterday ended in a tie.   I don't like ties in American football, I dislike them just as much if not more in American soccer.

My problem is that my team, your team, anyone's team, could conceivably go 0-0-3 in the first round and move on to the next round having  not won a single thing yet.   A tie is only worth a point because soccer accepts it that way.   A tie has no intrinsic value.   I just disagree with the idea that we're rewarding a non-win.   Obviously someone agrees with me since the next-round-forward gets rid of ties (correct?).   So if it's good enough for the last 4 rounds, why isn't it good enough for the first round?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #269 on: June 13, 2010, 10:40:22 am »
Right, because again, we're talking about two different things.

I'm not sure why this isn't clear in my posts:  I get the point thing and the greater sense thing.   I get how important the game point was in order to move on to the next round. 

I'm not talking about or arguing or misunderstanding that.

I'm saying that the single event that took place yesterday ended in a tie.   I don't like ties in American football, I dislike them just as much if not more in American soccer.

My problem is that my team, your team, anyone's team, could conceivably go 0-0-3 in the first round and move on to the next round having  not won a single thing yet.   A tie is only worth a point because soccer accepts it that way.   A tie has no intrinsic value.   I just disagree with the idea that we're rewarding a non-win.   Obviously someone agrees with me since the next-round-forward gets rid of ties (correct?).   So if it's good enough for the last 4 rounds, why isn't it good enough for the first round?

Try to be more zen in your definition of "win."  Similarly, I think it could be argued that a tie has no extrinsic value, but only intrinsic.  In your 0-0-3 scenario, two teams will go through on goal differential (or whichever tie breaker applies in this unlikely world of yours), thus "winning" the group.  The pool play is to set up the knockout stages, they're different beasts.
 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #270 on: June 13, 2010, 10:42:47 am »
Try to be more zen in your definition of "win."  Similarly, I think it could be argued that a tie has no extrinsic value, but only intrinsic.  In your 0-0-3 scenario, two teams will go through on goal differential (or whichever tie breaker applies in this unlikely world of yours), thus "winning" the group.  The pool play is to set up the knockout stages, they're different beasts.

Yeah, I'm done.  I totally get it and at this point I'm just proving what a moron I look like.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #271 on: June 13, 2010, 10:46:51 am »
Right, because again, we're talking about two different things.

I'm not sure why this isn't clear in my posts:  I get the point thing and the greater sense thing.   I get how important the game point was in order to move on to the next round. 

I'm not talking about or arguing or misunderstanding that.

I'm saying that the single event that took place yesterday ended in a tie.   I don't like ties in American football, I dislike them just as much if not more in American soccer.

My problem is that my team, your team, anyone's team, could conceivably go 0-0-3 in the first round and move on to the next round having  not won a single thing yet.   A tie is only worth a point because soccer accepts it that way.   A tie has no intrinsic value.   I just disagree with the idea that we're rewarding a non-win.   Obviously someone agrees with me since the next-round-forward gets rid of ties (correct?).   So if it's good enough for the last 4 rounds, why isn't it good enough for the first round?

You are the one that doesn't understand that a tie is not a bad outcome because you keep arguing it was *bad*.  It is strategic for tournament play, similar to how a manager in a college baseball tournament would not say that being in the loser brackets is *bad*. You can't see it singularily in tournament play.  We keep telling you that so you'll understand why yesterday there was an awful lot of beauty in the play.  Seeing defenders mark Rooney, seeing his frustration.  Watching Tim Howard fend off attacks, seeing even Green make a spectacular play against Altidore to keep the *TIE* in place (or give his team a chance to win by them mounting an attack).  If at the end of 90 minutes, both squads have given their all and come off the pitch with a tie, it is because they played to a draw in terms of play on the pitch that day.

Often in American sports you'll hear a pundit say "It's too bad there has to be a loser in this game, both teams are playing brilliantly and one team is going to give their fans the joy of victory while the other is going to give their fans the agony of defeat".  You are conditions to think this way for a single match.  Hockey, I think, is the only N. American sport that allows ties for season long play that results in points.  It is the system, not the players or teams that drives strategy.  For futbol fans, it is clearly understood that a single match has it's beauty in the play and not altogether in a win or lose outcome.

That will come soon enough (eventually, you need a winner and a loser in tournament play, just like in Hockey).

BudGirl

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #272 on: June 13, 2010, 10:47:29 am »
This Serbia-Ghana game is not one of the beautiful nil-nil endeavors.

Yeah, that changed.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #273 on: June 13, 2010, 10:48:38 am »
For futbol fans, it is clearly understood that a single match has it's beauty in the play and not altogether in a win or lose outcome.

I get it.  I'm done pretending to be obtuse.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #274 on: June 13, 2010, 10:51:47 am »
Yeah, that changed.

Good for Ghana, especially being the first African team to win a WC cup game in Africa, but the "beautiful" part didn't change.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #275 on: June 13, 2010, 10:53:58 am »
Good for Ghana, especially being the first African team to win a WC cup game in Africa, but the "beautiful" part didn't change.

At least someone won. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #276 on: June 13, 2010, 10:59:37 am »
 Hockey, I think, is the only N. American sport that allows ties for season long play that results in points.

Not any more.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #277 on: June 13, 2010, 11:00:53 am »
Anyone know what % of penalty kicks are made?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #278 on: June 13, 2010, 11:04:55 am »
You are the one that doesn't understand that a tie is not a bad outcome because you keep arguing it was *bad*.  It is strategic for tournament play, similar to how a manager in a college baseball tournament would not say that being in the loser brackets is *bad*. You can't see it singularily in tournament play.  We keep telling you that so you'll understand why yesterday there was an awful lot of beauty in the play.  Seeing defenders mark Rooney, seeing his frustration.  Watching Tim Howard fend off attacks, seeing even Green make a spectacular play against Altidore to keep the *TIE* in place (or give his team a chance to win by them mounting an attack).  If at the end of 90 minutes, both squads have given their all and come off the pitch with a tie, it is because they played to a draw in terms of play on the pitch that day.

Often in American sports you'll hear a pundit say "It's too bad there has to be a loser in this game, both teams are playing brilliantly and one team is going to give their fans the joy of victory while the other is going to give their fans the agony of defeat".  You are conditions to think this way for a single match.  Hockey, I think, is the only N. American sport that allows ties for season long play that results in points.  It is the system, not the players or teams that drives strategy.  For futbol fans, it is clearly understood that a single match has it's beauty in the play and not altogether in a win or lose outcome.

That will come soon enough (eventually, you need a winner and a loser in tournament play, just like in Hockey).

But Alkie has a good point.  Obviously someone agrees ties aren't a great way to resolve things because they do away with them in the later rounds, even going with something as trivial as penalty kicks.  By your logic, if even in the championship two teams play their hearts out, go back and forth all game, shouldn't they just call it a tie and both go home satisfied at a good match, both as champions?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #279 on: June 13, 2010, 11:09:30 am »
But Alkie has a good point.  Obviously someone agrees ties aren't a great way to resolve things because they do away with them in the later rounds, even going with something as trivial as penalty kicks.  By your logic, if even in the championship two teams play their hearts out, go back and forth all game, shouldn't they just call it a tie and both go home satisfied at a good match, both as champions?

It's just the difference between the group stage and the knockout rounds.  They have different goals.  The group stage separates the wheat from the chaff, the knockout stage is designed to propel one team forward each game.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #280 on: June 13, 2010, 11:11:45 am »
Anyone know what % of penalty kicks are made?

roughly 75% is the number I have always heard

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #281 on: June 13, 2010, 11:18:30 am »
Often in American sports you'll hear a pundit say "It's too bad there has to be a loser in this game, both teams are playing brilliantly and one team is going to give their fans the joy of victory while the other is going to give their fans the agony of defeat".

That's the very essence of athletic competition. It's *why* you play the game. I understand the strategy aspect. I understand why you might want to play for a tie in a tournament, given the rules for advancement to the next round. But I just disagree with the general philosophy that a tie is a perfectly acceptable outcome of a sporting event.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #282 on: June 13, 2010, 11:22:22 am »
It's just the difference between the group stage and the knockout rounds.  They have different goals.  The group stage separates the wheat from the chaff, the knockout stage is designed to propel one team forward each game.

That's not what Noe's saying.  He's saying that ties are okay because sometimes two teams just play their hearts out and if they draw under that circumstance then the winner is the fan.  I think Alkie's point, if I may interpret, is that if England really considers it a 'soft loss' to tie with the US, and the US a 'soft victory' to tie with England, then why not decide it in a real way that cuts through that ambiguity.  Or at least do it like hockey, where each time gets a point for tieing at the end of regulation, but the winner of overtime gets the full win.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #283 on: June 13, 2010, 11:25:19 am »
It's just the difference between the group stage and the knockout rounds.  They have different goals.  The group stage separates the wheat from the chaff, the knockout stage is designed to propel one team forward each game.

So Slovenia are the wheat and England and USA are the chaff?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #284 on: June 13, 2010, 11:27:34 am »
That's not what Noe's saying.  He's saying that ties are okay because sometimes two teams just play their hearts out and if they draw under that circumstance then the winner is the fan.  I think Alkie's point, if I may interpret, is that if England really considers it a 'soft loss' to tie with the US, and the US a 'soft victory' to tie with England, then why not decide it in a real way that cuts through that ambiguity.  Or at least do it like hockey, where each time gets a point for tieing at the end of regulation, but the winner of overtime gets the full win.

Well, I can't speak for Noe (nor would I want to for the risk of carpal-tunnel), but my point is that ties are part of the group stage because the group stage is a more general inquiry than single-elimination knockout play.  In knockout play you need an immediate absolute victor, in the group stage you just want to be able to determine which two teams are the best out of the four after all four play three games.  Introducing the random/arbitrary element of penalty kicks in the group stage distorts the entire purpose of having a group stage.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #285 on: June 13, 2010, 11:28:22 am »
So Slovenia are the wheat and England and USA are the chaff?

If at the end of three games that's what the scoreboard says, then so be it.  If the US or England can't beat Algeria, then they belong with the chaff.  But let's let them play the games, HH.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #286 on: June 13, 2010, 11:35:05 am »
Well, I can't speak for Noe (nor would I want to for the risk of carpal-tunnel), but my point is that ties are part of the group stage because the group stage is a more general inquiry than single-elimination knockout play.  In knockout play you need an immediate absolute victor, in the group stage you just want to be able to determine which two teams are the best out of the four after all four play three games.  Introducing the random/arbitrary element of penalty kicks in the group stage distorts the entire purpose of having a group stage.

I get that, and honestly I don't completely disagree with it.  But at the same time, Alkie was right on about yesterday's game.  It was way more than a mere general inquiry to those two teams, and maybe that shouldn't have been the case, but it was.  If I'm England and their fans today, I'm probably thinking that I have the better team and played the better game but 'lost' because of a total fluke goal and a hot US goalie.  What's wrong with going another 30-45 minutes to validate the outcome?  Again, if it's really a big deal then give each team a point for tying after 90, and give the other team the full 3 if they win in extra time.

matadorph

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #287 on: June 13, 2010, 11:39:06 am »
Introducing the random/arbitrary element of penalty kicks in the group stage distorts the entire purpose of having a group stage.

So don't use penalty kicks. Soccer fans love to endlessly point out how many miles soccer players run on average in a given match and how it's the most athletically demanding sport (bullshit), but if that's the case then make those uberathletes play until a real goddamn goal is scored. No ties, no penalty kicks, sudden death OT.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #288 on: June 13, 2010, 11:39:48 am »
 What's wrong with going another 30-45 minutes to validate the outcome?  Again, if it's really a big deal then give each team a point for tying after 90, and give the other team the full 3 if they win in extra time.

I don't have the problem with extra-time that I do with penalty kicks in the group stage.

Though I would argue that only three points can be awarded in a game, and in your scenario each team should get one point for going to extra time and the eventual victor earns the other available point.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #289 on: June 13, 2010, 11:44:38 am »
So don't use penalty kicks. Soccer fans love to endlessly point out how many miles soccer players run on average in a given match and how it's the most athletically demanding sport (bullshit), but if that's the case then make those uberathletes play until a real goddamn goal is scored. No ties, no penalty kicks, sudden death OT.

In the knockout stage they play 30 minutes of extra time, only going on to penalties if the match is still tied after the extra time.

The argument that I always hear against indefinite sudden death extra time is that the players get more tired, play uglier, and a goal becomes less likely while the risk of injury increases.  I don't know how much of that I buy. 

Frankly, I've always argued that they should replace penalty kicks with alternating corner kicks, which is something that involves each entire team and bears some semblance to the actual sport.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #290 on: June 13, 2010, 11:57:59 am »
If at the end of three games that's what the scoreboard says, then so be it.  If the US or England can't beat Algeria, then they belong with the chaff.  But let's let them play the games, HH.

So do they all play each other in the preliminary rounds?  If so, I'm not getting how it's "do or die" for USA or England.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #291 on: June 13, 2010, 12:04:36 pm »
Frankly, I've always argued that they should replace penalty kicks with alternating corner kicks, which is something that involves each entire team and bears some semblance to the actual sport.

that could get pretty painful.  seems like the success rate of corner kicks is far south of kevin cash's batting average.

what about making extra time like 9 on 9 or something like that, similar to the way hockey does it.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #292 on: June 13, 2010, 12:05:17 pm »
So do they all play each other in the preliminary rounds?  If so, I'm not getting how it's "do or die" for USA or England.

Yes.  It's a round robin.  Each team plays the other three.  At the end of the round robin, the top two advance to the knockout stage.

I'm not sure where you got the "do or die" thing from.  Even with a loss, either team would still advance by beating Slovenia and Algeria.  Both England and the US are expected to top the group and move on.  This game was a chance for one team to gain the pole position on finishing with the top seed, which matches it against a second seed from a different group in the first round of knockout play. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #293 on: June 13, 2010, 12:06:11 pm »
that could get pretty painful.  seems like the success rate of corner kicks is far south of kevin cash's batting average.

what about making extra time like 9 on 9 or something like that, similar to the way hockey does it.

Pretty much anything would be better than penalty kicks.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #294 on: June 13, 2010, 12:08:47 pm »
I'm not sure where you got the "do or die" thing from.

Well, that's what I've been hearing and reading.  That USA and England are behind the proverbial 8 ball because they tied and Slovenia won.  Which is why I guess I assumed that there wasn't the opportunity for each team to play each other.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #295 on: June 13, 2010, 12:13:11 pm »
Well, that's what I've been hearing and reading.  That USA and England are behind the proverbial 8 ball because they tied and Slovenia won.  Which is why I guess I assumed that there wasn't the opportunity for each team to play each other.

Where have you seen that?  It makes no sense.

Nevertheless, if either England or the US loses to Slovenia, they're pretty much fucked.  I guess you could argue that if Slovenia merely ties their games against both England and the US (merely "not losing") they are assured of advancing with 5 points, where the most points the US or England could get is 4 points with a win against Algeria.  So in the sense that Slovenia needs to "not lose" while England and the US now need to "win," Slovenia has the upper hand.  But that's purely theoretical.  Playing to "not lose" doesn't really work very well.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #296 on: June 13, 2010, 12:16:37 pm »
Where have you seen that?  It makes no sense.

Well, this was one place:

http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=111033.260

I assumed Limey knew what he was talking about, but I guess not.


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I guess you could argue that if Slovenia merely ties their games against both England and the US (merely "not losing") they are assured of advancing with 5 points, where the most points the US or England could get is 4 points with a win against Algeria.

If USA and England tie Slovenia and beat Algeria, they all have 5 points, do they not?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #297 on: June 13, 2010, 12:18:06 pm »

If USA and England tie Slovenia and beat Algeria, they all have 5 points, do they not?

Uh... yeah.  I'm not much with the math on a Sunday.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #298 on: June 13, 2010, 12:20:13 pm »
Well, this was one place:

http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=111033.260

I assumed Limey knew what he was talking about, but I guess not.


Limey said "but the last two group games for England and USA are "must win"."  That would be the remaining games in the round robin.   
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #299 on: June 13, 2010, 12:21:33 pm »
Limey said "but the last two group games for England and USA are "must win"."  That would be the remaining games in the round robin.  

Right.  He said they're "must win".  You say they're not.  My calculator says they're not, as long as they both get to play Slovenia and Algeria.  
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #300 on: June 13, 2010, 12:28:03 pm »
Right.  He said they're "must win".  You say they're not.  My calculator says they're not, as long as they both get to play Slovenia and Algeria.  

I'll let Limey debate his semantics with you, but if either team loses to Slovenia, they're pretty much fucked.  That's certainly a must win.  Assuming that the other team beats Algeria, which is an assumption one has to make given that Algeria is the weakest squad of the group, then either team's match against Algeria is a must win.

If one of England or the US fails to win its next two matches, that team will likely be left holding its hat at the end of the group stage.

I was saying the US-England match wasn't a "must win."  Limey is talking about the other two games.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #301 on: June 13, 2010, 12:30:55 pm »
Right.  He said they're "must win".  You say they're not.  My calculator says they're not, as long as they both get to play Slovenia and Algeria.  

Well, and again, my real problem with this current system is that there is an actual statistically possible outcome where you have an unbreakable 4-way tie.   That shouldn't be.

If every game had to go until there was a winner and loser, in a 4 team bracket over 3-games-each, it would be virtually impossible to not have reasonable tiebreaks (if even necessary) to choose the two teams that move on. 

And I watched Ghana and their fans after the last match.   You can't tell me a win isn't significantly more satisfying to those people today than a 0-0 tie would have been just because they understand the "bigger picture."


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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #302 on: June 13, 2010, 12:33:39 pm »
I'll let Limey debate his semantics with you, but if either team loses to Slovenia, they're pretty much fucked.  That's certainly a must win.  Assuming that the other team beats Algeria, which is an assumption one has to make given that Algeria is the weakest squad of the group, then either team's match against Algeria is a must win.

If one of England or the US fails to win its next two matches, that team will likely be left holding its hat at the end of the group stage.

I was saying the US-England match wasn't a "must win."  Limey is talking about the other two games.


England and USA could *both* lose to Slovenia and one of them advance.  Both could tie Slovenia and either one or even both advance.  One can lose to Slovenia while the other one ties Slovenia and the team that lost to them could avance.  There are lots of scenarios which don't involve beating Slovenia to advance.  Neither game is a "must win" at this point for either England or USA

Quote
I was saying the US-England match wasn't a "must win."  Limey is talking about the other two games.

I was saying I'm hearing it's now "do or die" for the USA and England.  I don't see that, if they both get to play the same two teams.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #303 on: June 13, 2010, 12:35:01 pm »
in real sports news, hafner just destroyed a low and inside strasburg fastball.  washington-cleveland on their way to a 1-1 tie

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #304 on: June 13, 2010, 12:36:04 pm »
Well, and again, my real problem with this current system is that there is an actual statistically possible outcome where you have an unbreakable 4-way tie.   That shouldn't be.

You'll love this.  The tie-breakers are (1) goal differential (2) total goals scored (3) head to head points against the team(s) you're tied with (4) head to head goal differential against the team(s) you're tied with (5) head to head goals scored against the team(s) you're tied with, and (5) RANDOM DRAW
 
And I watched Ghana and their fans after the last match.   You can't tell me a win isn't significantly more satisfying to those people today than a 0-0 tie would have been just because they understand the "bigger picture."

Yes, a win is better than a tie.  FIFA agrees with you by awarding a team that wins 3 points, while a team that ties only gets 1 point, and a team that loses gets 0 points. Way to crack the code, Alkie.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #305 on: June 13, 2010, 12:51:44 pm »
You'll love this.  The tie-breakers are (1) goal differential (2) total goals scored (3) head to head points against the team(s) you're tied with (4) head to head goal differential against the team(s) you're tied with (5) head to head goals scored against the team(s) you're tied with, and (5) RANDOM DRAW

You're right.   My brain just exploded.
 
Quote
Yes, a win is better than a tie.  FIFA agrees with you by awarding a team that wins 3 points, while a team that ties only gets 1 point, and a team that loses gets 0 points. Way to crack the code, Alkie.

Oh, I didn't realize we were going from a discussion to being actual dicks to each other.  I can play that game, too.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #306 on: June 13, 2010, 12:54:42 pm »
Oh, I didn't realize we were going from a discussion to being actual dicks to each other.  I can play that game, too.

Well, surely nobody ever advanced the argument that a win is not better than a tie.

Or, without the double negatives, surely everybody agrees that a win is better than a tie. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #307 on: June 13, 2010, 12:56:33 pm »
So if USA and England both tie their next two games with equal total goals scored, and they are tied for the #2 spot.....it goes to a random draw for the chance to move on?

If that's actually true, everything Noe and chuck have said is out the window.   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #308 on: June 13, 2010, 12:57:41 pm »
Well, surely nobody ever advanced the argument that a win is not better than a tie.

Or, without the double negatives, surely everybody agrees that a win is better than a tie. 

Yes, but you intentionally pretended that I was talking about "FIFA" when you knew fully fucking well that I was talking about the teams and, more importantly, the fans of that country to make it sound like I'm too fucking stupid to understand the 0-1-3 point system.   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #309 on: June 13, 2010, 12:58:55 pm »
So if USA and England both tie their next two games with equal total goals scored, and they are tied for the #2 spot.....it goes to a random draw for the chance to move on?

Yes.  Therein lies Limey's "must win."

If that's actually true, everything Noe and chuck have said is out the window.   

In my opinion, they were talking about an individual game, not an entire round robin, but I'll let them explain themselves.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #310 on: June 13, 2010, 01:01:35 pm »
Yes, but you intentionally pretended that I was talking about "FIFA" when you knew fully fucking well that I was talking about the teams and, more importantly, the fans of that country to make it sound like I'm too fucking stupid to understand the 0-1-3 point system.   

It wasn't intentional.  Basically, your point seems to be that the fans and teams greatly prefer a win over a tie, which is the same point.  Obviously, that's true.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #311 on: June 13, 2010, 01:04:53 pm »
It wasn't intentional.  Basically, your point seems to be that the fans and teams greatly prefer a win over a tie, which is the same point.  Obviously, that's true.

i think his point is more that fans and teams have been pussywhipped into thinking that a tie is pretty much as good as a win.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #312 on: June 13, 2010, 01:06:39 pm »
i think his point is more that fans and teams have been pussywhipped into thinking that a tie is pretty much as good as a win.

Oh.  My bad. 

A tie can be good, but a win is absolutely better.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #313 on: June 13, 2010, 01:08:33 pm »
Yes.  Therein lies Limey's "must win."

Something I can completely agree with.  All the games should be "must wins."   It's like a tournament and shit.

Quote
In my opinion, they were talking about an individual game, not an entire round robin, but I'll let them explain themselves.

Oh, NOW we're talking about the single event.   How convenient.

This really is, quite possibly, the stupidest non-politics thread here ever.   HH and I are arguing that the point of any single competition is to have a winner and a loser.   You, chuck, Noe and whoever else (I've lost track) are suggesting that we're somehow missing the point of a round robin tournament where ties are granted points; as if maybe our science/math based advanced degrees have failed us or that we're just rednecks (which is possible).   While I am genuinely embarrassed that my feelings on this matter make me uncharacteristically small-minded and Merikun, it's just a matter of philosophies and none of us are likely to budge.   HH and I completely get that the point of the first round is simply "to move on" and not to "win 3 games."   We understand the rules (in that regard).   We like rules.   I'm for regulation.   Our problem isn't that there are rules, it's that we think the rules are silly because they have possible non-answer outcomes.   That the biggest sporting event on the face of the earth could conceivably end in a 4-way tie that would be decided by random draw for advancement doesn't jive for me (and I assume HH).

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #314 on: June 13, 2010, 01:10:16 pm »
i think his point is more that fans and teams have been pussywhipped into thinking that a tie is pretty much as good as a win.

YES.

EXACTLY.

The NY Post headline today is, I shit you not:

USA WINS 1-1!!!

I get that it's (somewhat) tongue in cheek, but that's exactly the sentiment.   USA didn't win.  Not even kind of.   They tied.   We have no right to celebrate a win.   We didn't win.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #315 on: June 13, 2010, 01:22:18 pm »
YES.

EXACTLY.

The NY Post headline today is, I shit you not:

USA WINS 1-1!!!

I get that it's (somewhat) tongue in cheek, but that's exactly the sentiment.   USA didn't win.  Not even kind of.   They tied.   We have no right to celebrate a win.   We didn't win.

Not losing ground to the presumptive group favorite in the first game of the round robin is a net positive for the US.  I know you appreciate this, which is why I'm perplexed at your rejection of celebrating getting a point against England.

ETA:  And in no way am I defending an asinine NY Post headline. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #316 on: June 13, 2010, 01:27:33 pm »
If that's actually true, everything Noe and chuck have said is out the window.

The only thing I have said (that I know of) is that I don't mind ties. The anti-draw wing of the SNS party does not bother or threaten me in any way and as far as I know I have not tried in earnest to convince anyone to abandon their position on the matter.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #317 on: June 13, 2010, 01:28:07 pm »
Not losing ground to the presumptive group favorite in the first game of the round robin is a net positive for the US.  I know you appreciate this, which is why I'm perplexed at your rejection of celebrating getting a point against England.

I totally agree with the idea that Americans should be glad they got 1 point instead of 0 points, but they didn't win yesterday's match.   They won a game-point.   Not the match.   And treating it as a win strikes me as...wrong.


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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #318 on: June 13, 2010, 01:30:01 pm »
The only thing I have said (that I know of) is that I don't mind ties. The anti-draw wing of the SNS party does not bother or threaten me in any way and as far as I know I have not tried in earnest to convince anyone to abandon their position on the matter.

Cool.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #319 on: June 13, 2010, 01:31:54 pm »
I totally agree with the idea that Americans should be glad they got 1 point instead of 0 points, but they didn't win yesterday's match.   They won a game-point.   Not the match.   And treating it as a win strikes me as...wrong.



Not a win, but certainly a good thing that puts the U.S. in a position to compete for the top slot in the group.  That's all I've said.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #320 on: June 13, 2010, 01:39:10 pm »
Not a win, but certainly a good thing that puts the U.S. in a position to compete for the top slot in the group.  That's all I've said.

And no one has argued that the US shouldn't be happy with the point they got in this World Cup.  This whole discussion is about why some of us find it hard to get interested in soccer.  The fact that a 0-0 tie is perfectly acceptable is the single biggest obstacle to my personally appreciating it as a sport.  I think Alkie feels the same way. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #321 on: June 13, 2010, 01:43:33 pm »
The Germans are putting on a clinic right now.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #322 on: June 13, 2010, 01:54:43 pm »
The Germans are putting on a clinic right now.

Should be 4-0.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #323 on: June 13, 2010, 01:54:55 pm »
And no one has argued that the US shouldn't be happy with the point they got in this World Cup.  This whole discussion is about why some of us find it hard to get interested in soccer.  The fact that a 0-0 tie is perfectly acceptable is the single biggest obstacle to my personally appreciating it as a sport.  I think Alkie feels the same way. 

Aye.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #324 on: June 13, 2010, 01:59:47 pm »
Should be 4-0.

They're just absurdly organized (shocker for Germans, I know).  Everybody is always where they are supposed to be, everybody always knows where everyone else is.  No great superstars, but always a whole-greater-than-the-sum-of-the-parts quality tournament team.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #325 on: June 13, 2010, 02:01:06 pm »
They're just absurdly organized (shocker for Germans, I know).  Everybody is always where they are supposed to be, everybody always knows where everyone else is.  No great superstars, but always a whole-greater-than-the-sum-of-the-parts quality tournament team.

6-0.   Easily the most one sided match so far.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #326 on: June 13, 2010, 02:16:00 pm »
Just think of the group stage as a double-elimination tournament.

All I know is that if I was at a game, a number of people would be shitting vuvuzelas tonight.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #327 on: June 13, 2010, 02:26:48 pm »
All I know is that if I was at a game, a number of people would be shitting vuvuzelas tonight.

Finally, something everyone can agree on.   

I can just see some asshole with an IQ of 40 finding one in a Kay-Bee in Joberg and thinking "you know what would kick ass?   80,000 of these.  At.  Once."   And that person, unfortunately, is also in charge of promotions for the World Cup.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #328 on: June 13, 2010, 02:42:33 pm »
Well, THAT ain't gonna help Australia.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #329 on: June 13, 2010, 02:44:01 pm »
Well, THAT ain't gonna help Australia.

OK...so the Aussie guy gets ejected...why doesn't he get replaced?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #330 on: June 13, 2010, 02:46:58 pm »
OK...so the Aussie guy gets ejected...why doesn't he get replaced?

Moral of the story - don't get ejected.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #331 on: June 13, 2010, 02:47:11 pm »
OK...so the Aussie guy gets ejected...why doesn't he get replaced?

Actually, I'll say this is one thing about soccer I really do like.  If a dude gets thrown out, he shouldn't just be replaced.   Obviously, it wouldn't work in, say, baseball.  But for this specific sport/concept, I like it.   

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #332 on: June 13, 2010, 02:49:13 pm »
Actually, I'll say this is one thing about soccer I really do like.  If a dude gets thrown out, he shouldn't just be replaced.   Obviously, it wouldn't work in, say, baseball.  But for this specific sport/concept, I like it.   

I had no idea that was the rule.  That blows, especially when it's over something as ticky tack as that little love pat that got this guy tossed.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #333 on: June 13, 2010, 02:50:39 pm »
And another thing...they should make these guys tuck their shirts in. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #334 on: June 13, 2010, 02:52:49 pm »
And another thing...they should make these guys tuck their shirts in. 

You kids get off my lawn!
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #335 on: June 13, 2010, 02:53:59 pm »
Slaughter.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #336 on: June 13, 2010, 02:56:48 pm »
Say, you know who I wish I had taken in my pool now?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #337 on: June 13, 2010, 02:57:42 pm »
You kids get off my lawn!

And these guys who slide around, banging their chests, acting like they just saved the world when they score...they'd get dotted right between the shoulder blades next time up.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #338 on: June 13, 2010, 02:57:43 pm »
This enough scoring for y'all?
Y todo lo que sube baja
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #339 on: June 13, 2010, 02:58:58 pm »
And these guys who slide around, banging their chests, acting like they just saved the world when they score...they'd get dotted right between the shoulder blades next time up.

Yeah, and so would the guy doing cartwheels in the end zone, so what? It's a different game.
Y todo lo que sube baja
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #340 on: June 13, 2010, 02:58:58 pm »
This enough scoring for y'all?

It's easy enought to score on Australia...then you make them play a man down?  How is this fair?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #341 on: June 13, 2010, 02:59:59 pm »
Yeah, and so would the guy doing cartwheels in the end zone, so what? It's a different game.

I don't like all that end zone dancing crap either.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #342 on: June 13, 2010, 03:03:21 pm »
This enough scoring for y'all?

Are you kidding?  This sucks.   Where is the 1-1 match from yesterday?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #343 on: June 13, 2010, 03:04:02 pm »
Are you kidding?  This sucks.   Where is the 1-1 match from yesterday?

Is it just me, or do the Australians just stand around a lot.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #344 on: June 13, 2010, 03:13:34 pm »
Is it just me, or do the Australians just stand around a lot.

Dude, this match has been over for an hour.   They're just hanging out and waiting to go back to the hotel so they can celebrate the 0-4 loss (win) with their fans.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #345 on: June 13, 2010, 03:16:44 pm »
Dude, this match has been over for an hour.   They're just hanging out and waiting to go back to the hotel so they can celebrate the 0-4 loss (win) with their fans.

There's not much to take away from this evisceration other than the fact that they don't have to play Germany again.  Serbia and Ghana ain't pushovers either.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #346 on: June 13, 2010, 03:17:57 pm »
There's not much to take away from this evisceration other than the fact that they don't have to play Germany again.  Serbia and Ghana ain't pushovers either.

This AUS team I'm watching right now isn't going to beat either the Serbia or Ghana teams I watched this morning.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #347 on: June 13, 2010, 03:20:37 pm »
There's not much to take away from this evisceration other than the fact that they don't have to play Germany again.  Serbia and Ghana ain't pushovers either.

Especially with Cahill missing the next game.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #348 on: June 13, 2010, 03:21:45 pm »
This AUS team I'm watching right now isn't going to beat either the Serbia or Ghana teams I watched this morning.

And without Cahill (red card) they are really up shit's creek against Ghana.

HH:  A red card means you're ejected from that game and also have to sit out the next game, though the excluded player's position in the lineup is filled by someone else.  Two yellow cards in the group stage means you sit out the next game in the group stage.  The slate is wiped clean when knockouts begin, but two yellow cards over the course of the knockout stage by a player means they have to sit out the next game as well.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 03:24:29 pm by Bench »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #349 on: June 13, 2010, 03:25:56 pm »
And without Cahill (red card) they are really up shit's creek against Ghana.

HH:  A red card means you're ejected from that game and also have to sit out the next game, though the excluded player's position in the lineup is filled by someone else.  Two yellow cards in the group stage means you sit out the next game in the group stage.  The slate is wiped clean when knockouts begin, but two yellow cards over the course of the knockout stage by a player means they have to sit out the next game as well.

I think that's yellows in consecutive games, isn't it? If I get yellows in games 1 and 3, I don't think that means I have to sit game 4.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #350 on: June 13, 2010, 03:27:32 pm »
HH:  A red card means you're ejected from that game and also have to sit out the next game, though the excluded player's position in the lineup is filled by someone else.

Apparently not.  Either that or they royally fucked up today.  Australia was forced to play with only 10 guys. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #351 on: June 13, 2010, 03:28:39 pm »
I think that's yellows in consecutive games, isn't it? If I get yellows in games 1 and 3, I don't think that means I have to sit game 4.

I think it's total, but I'm not 100%.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #352 on: June 13, 2010, 03:29:17 pm »
Apparently not.  Either that or they royally fucked up today.  Australia was forced to play with only 10 guys. 

For the rest of that game, yes.  But next game, while Cahill is not allowed to play, the Australians can field 11 guys.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #353 on: June 13, 2010, 03:30:32 pm »
For the rest of that game, yes.  But next game, while Cahill is not allowed to play, the Australians can field 11 guys.

Well of course.  You're not forced to start the same 11 players every game, are you?  The coach can change the starting lineup from game to game, can he not?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #354 on: June 13, 2010, 03:31:57 pm »
I had no idea that was the rule.  That blows, especially when it's over something as ticky tack as that little love pat that got this guy tossed.

Cahill is a chippy little fuck.  If in was the referee, I'd yellow card him in the tunnel before the game, so he'd be off for his first, inevitable, injury-risking hatchet job.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #355 on: June 13, 2010, 03:32:07 pm »
Actually, I'll say this is one thing about soccer I really do like.  If a dude gets thrown out, he shouldn't just be replaced.   Obviously, it wouldn't work in, say, baseball.  But for this specific sport/concept, I like it.  

I also like how you're limited to two substitutions total, regardless of injuries.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 03:35:26 pm by Bench »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #356 on: June 13, 2010, 03:34:28 pm »
Well of course.  You're not forced to start the same 11 players every game, are you?  The coach can change the starting lineup from game to game, can he not?

Right.  A red card to a player means the team has to finish that game with 10 players and the red-carded player is not allowed to play in the next game.  However, the team is not forced to start the next game with only 10 players.
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austro

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #357 on: June 13, 2010, 03:34:36 pm »
I also like how you're limited to substitutions total, regardless of injuries.

That'll really get HH going.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #358 on: June 13, 2010, 03:34:54 pm »
Cahill is a chippy little fuck.  If in was the referee, I'd yellow card him in the tunnel before the game, so he'd be off for his first, inevitable, injury-risking hatchet job.

Yeah, but come on...what he did today?  My wife hits me harder than that.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #359 on: June 13, 2010, 03:36:04 pm »
Right.  A red card to a player means the team has to finish that game with 10 players and the red-carded player is not allowed to play in the next game.  However, the team is not forced to start the next game with only 10 players.

I guess I'm confused as to why you feel the need to mention that, and why you stated it as "replacing" his position.  I feel like I'm missing something.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #360 on: June 13, 2010, 03:37:18 pm »
That'll really get HH going.

Actually, I'm ok with that. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #361 on: June 13, 2010, 03:37:43 pm »
I guess I'm confused as to why you feel the need to mention that, and why you stated it as "replacing" his position.  I feel like I'm missing something.

In the game from which he gets ejected, he cannot be replaced by another player.  In the next game, while he can't play in it, his position in the starting lineup can be replaced by another player.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #362 on: June 13, 2010, 03:38:40 pm »
I guess I'm confused as to why you feel the need to mention that, and why you stated it as "replacing" his position.  I feel like I'm missing something.

You're short-handed for the game in which the red card occurs, but not for the next (at least, not until somebody else gets a red card in that game). But the red-carded player cannot play in the next game.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #363 on: June 13, 2010, 03:39:02 pm »
In the game from which he gets ejected, he cannot be replaced another player.  In the next game, while he can't play in it, his position in the starting lineup can be replaced by another player.

Can his position not be replaced even if he doesn't get a red card?  Can the coach simply not replace his position in the lineup because he sucks?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #364 on: June 13, 2010, 03:39:45 pm »
Can his position not be replaced even if he doesn't get a red card?  Can the coach simply not replace his position in the lineup because he sucks?

Each team is allowed two substitutions per game.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #365 on: June 13, 2010, 03:43:09 pm »
I think it's total, but I'm not 100%.

Your are correct: Total.

Two yellows in one game = a red.
Two yellows total in group stage = suspension (ineligible for next game).
Record expunged for knockout stage, but "earned" suspensions enforced.  
Two yellows total in knockout stage = suspension (ineligible for next game), even the if it's the final (see Gazza, Crying).    
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 03:51:43 pm by Limey »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #366 on: June 13, 2010, 03:43:12 pm »
Each team is allowed two substitutions per game.

Which means that if, after you've used your substitutions (I thought it was 3, but whatever), somebody gets injured sufficiently that they can't continue, you play a man down. That's the consequence that I figured would upset HH, but I guess I was wrong.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #367 on: June 13, 2010, 03:43:33 pm »
Each team is allowed two substitutions per game.

But can they not start different 11 guys from game to game?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #368 on: June 13, 2010, 03:45:12 pm »
But they can they not start different 11 guys from game to game?

Absolutely. You can start whomever you want for the next game (except for players serving suspensions for red cards, obviously).
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #369 on: June 13, 2010, 03:48:22 pm »
Which means that if, after you've used your substitutions (I thought it was 3, but whatever), somebody gets injured sufficiently that they can't continue, you play a man down. That's the consequence that I figured would upset HH, but I guess I was wrong.

Why would it upset me?  It's the same thing in baseball.  You're allowed certain number of subs and after that, you play shorthanded.  It's just that in baseball that number is 16.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #370 on: June 13, 2010, 03:49:42 pm »
Yeah, but come on...what he did today?  My wife hits me harder than that.

Soccer is a "non-contact" sport the same way that basketball is.  You're not allowed to take anyone else's space, and you definitely can't come through a player from behind.  It's illegal, and incredibly dangerous.  FIFA, for once doing something good, has ordered refs to punish such challenges very harshly.  The players know this, Cahill is just too stupid to stop himself doing it anyway. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #371 on: June 13, 2010, 03:50:08 pm »
Why would it upset me?  It's the same thing in baseball.  You're allowed certain number of subs and after that, you play shorthanded.  It's just that in baseball that number is 16.

Why isn't it 25?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #372 on: June 13, 2010, 03:52:19 pm »
Why isn't it 25?

Because only 25 players are available to play in any game.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #373 on: June 13, 2010, 03:52:26 pm »
and you definitely can't come through a player from behind.  It's illegal, and incredibly dangerous. 

And yet you still try to convince us that soccer isn't gay..(NTTAWWT)
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #374 on: June 13, 2010, 03:52:52 pm »
Because only 25 players are available to play in any game.

Unless it's September...
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #375 on: June 13, 2010, 03:54:08 pm »
Unless it's September...

True.  After Sept. 1st, you're allowed 31 substitutions per game.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #376 on: June 13, 2010, 03:56:38 pm »
Because only 25 players are available to play in any game.

Oh.  Gotcha.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #377 on: June 13, 2010, 03:59:44 pm »
But can they not start different 11 guys from game to game?

Each team has a squad of 23 players.  From that squad, for each game they name a starting 11, plus 6 (IIRC) subs, of which three can be used.    They can change the players/subs for each game as much as they want, within the 23 man squad.  If you lose a player to injury, you can't replace him on the squad, you just operate with a 22 man squad.  Suspended players are merely dropped off the squad for one game, and reinstated for the next (if there is one).

In game, a red-carded player is gone, but the coach can sub one of the other players, if he wants to get a particular position covered.  The most obvious example is if the goalie is sent off.  The coach can sub one of the outfield players with the spare goalie. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #378 on: June 13, 2010, 04:00:26 pm »
It's illegal, and incredibly dangerous.

It's "incredibly dangerous" the same way sex with Lucy Lawless is "incredibly dangerous".
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #379 on: June 13, 2010, 04:01:51 pm »
In game, a red-carded player is gone, but the coach can sub one of the other players, if he wants to get a particular position covered.  The most obvious example is if the goalie is sent off.  The coach can sub one of the outfield players with the spare goalie. 

Which reminds me...are only certain guys allowed to play in goal?  Or can anyone be designated the goalkeeper?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #380 on: June 13, 2010, 04:03:39 pm »
Which reminds me...are only certain guys allowed to play in goal?  Or can anyone be designated the goalkeeper?

Just as long as you have a garish color-clashing uniform that fits you.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #381 on: June 13, 2010, 04:05:15 pm »
Which reminds me...are only certain guys allowed to play in goal?  Or can anyone be designated the goalkeeper?

Anybody can be designated to be the goalkeeper, the same way anybody can be put behind the plate at catcher. But you probably won't like the results of putting a random person back there, the same way you'll probably not like the results of playing a random person at catcher.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #382 on: June 13, 2010, 04:07:41 pm »
Anybody can be designated to be the goalkeeper, the same way anybody can be put behind the plate at catcher. But you probably won't like the results of putting a random person back there, the same way you'll probably not like the results of playing a random person at catcher.

But if you had to, you could put anyone in goal, right?

Do you ever "pull" the goalie in soccer like you do in hockey (not that you'd know how much time is left in the game)?

The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #383 on: June 13, 2010, 04:10:11 pm »
It's "incredibly dangerous" the same way sex with Lucy Lawless is "incredibly dangerous".

Because she's a well armed man?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #384 on: June 13, 2010, 04:11:34 pm »
But if you had to, you could put anyone in goal, right?

Yes, you could. Like Bench said, though, they have to change jerseys so that they're easily distinguished from the other players.

Quote
Do you ever "pull" the goalie in soccer like you do in hockey (not that you'd know how much time is left in the game)?

I don't think I've seen a goalie "pulled", but sometimes goalies will come up and participate in the offense. There used to be a little Mexican keeper who played for the LA Galaxy who did this routinely (I'm embarrassed that I can't remember his name right now).
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #385 on: June 13, 2010, 04:12:23 pm »
Which reminds me...are only certain guys allowed to play in goal?  Or can anyone be designated the goalkeeper?

Anyone can play goalie, the ref just needs to know who it is.  In the old days, before subs were allowed (or when only one sub was available), an outfield player would go in the goal if the goalie was injured or ejected.  That player would put on the green jersey (they all used to wear green back then) and make a complete hash of things for the remainder of the game.

In 1956, Bert Trautmann played more than half of the FA Cup final with a broken neck, because there was no replacement keeper.  T'was a man's game back then.   
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #386 on: June 13, 2010, 04:14:42 pm »

Do you ever "pull" the goalie in soccer like you do in hockey (not that you'd know how much time is left in the game)?


Yeah.  The US did it a few world cups ago to disastrous failure.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #387 on: June 13, 2010, 04:15:58 pm »
I don't think I've seen a goalie "pulled", but sometimes goalies will come up and participate in the offense. There used to be a little Mexican keeper who played for the LA Galaxy who did this routinely (I'm embarrassed that I can't remember his name right now).


Yeah, this is what I mean.  Obviously there is not free substitution like in hockey.  I was just wondering if the goalie ever ran up and participated in the offense trying to get a man advantage on the attack.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #388 on: June 13, 2010, 04:18:37 pm »
But if you had to, you could put anyone in goal, right?

Do you ever "pull" the goalie in soccer like you do in hockey (not that you'd know how much time is left in the game)?



No, because subs are precious and may have already been used up by then.  But a goalie will leave the net empty and try do do some damage in the outfield if losing a must win game and it's late.  I'm sure we'll see this a few times in the tournament.  It's usually when the trailing team has a set piece of some description at the opponent's end - the goalie will run up and act as an additional attacker.  They typically suck at everything except goalkeeping, through, so the results are usually poor but occasionally hilarious.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #389 on: June 13, 2010, 04:18:51 pm »

Yeah, this is what I mean.  Obviously there is not free substitution like in hockey.  I was just wondering if the goalie ever ran up and participated in the offense trying to get a man advantage on the attack.

On desperation corner kicks it happens.  The goalie can go anywhere he wants, he just can't use his hands outside of the 18 yard box.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #390 on: June 13, 2010, 04:35:36 pm »
Anyone can play goalie, the ref just needs to know who it is.  In the old days, before subs were allowed (or when only one sub was available), an outfield player would go in the goal if the goalie was injured or ejected.  That player would put on the green jersey (they all used to wear green back then) and make a complete hash of things for the remainder of the game.

In 1956, Bert Trautmann played more than half of the FA Cup final with a broken neck, because there was no replacement keeper.  T'was a man's game back then.   

Is this right?  There was a story about the N Koreans trying to put a "striker" on the team as a "goalie" and they were told no go
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #391 on: June 13, 2010, 04:39:55 pm »
Is this right?  There was a story about the N Koreans trying to put a "striker" on the team as a "goalie" and they were told no go

There may be rules about roster composition that require somebody listed as a "goalie" to have appeared in X number of games as a goalie (and I believe that each team is allowed to carry 3 goalies on their WC roster). But once the game is underway, any player can move to goal.

And I have no idea why the North Koreans would try to do that, but they ARE the fucking crazy Norh Koreans, so I'm not going to try to figure it out.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #394 on: June 13, 2010, 05:26:45 pm »
There may be rules about roster composition that require somebody listed as a "goalie" to have appeared in X number of games as a goalie (and I believe that each team is allowed to carry 3 goalies on their WC roster). But once the game is underway, any player can move to goal.

And I have no idea why the North Koreans would try to do that, but they ARE the fucking crazy Norh Koreans, so I'm not going to try to figure it out.

Probably trying to get around the goalie maximum.  Either that, or he was carrying the WMDs.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 05:36:39 pm by Limey »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #395 on: June 13, 2010, 07:11:13 pm »

Yeah, this is what I mean.  Obviously there is not free substitution like in hockey.  I was just wondering if the goalie ever ran up and participated in the offense trying to get a man advantage on the attack.

Comparing substitutions in soccer to line changes in hockey seems to be stretching things.  Also, hockey also is the only game I can think of that makes personnel changes with play continuing.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #397 on: June 14, 2010, 11:34:55 am »
You don't like loud vulvas?

Sounds like France is threatening to surrender to them.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 11:38:22 am by Tralfaz »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #398 on: June 14, 2010, 12:54:45 pm »
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #399 on: June 14, 2010, 01:31:06 pm »
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #400 on: June 14, 2010, 01:38:23 pm »
That's actually quite good.

I liked the way they were careful to have little Lego Gerrard take his shot off the outside of his foot.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #401 on: June 14, 2010, 01:42:30 pm »
This is fucking nuts.

England Coach Capello will be consulting the team's psychologist (yes, you read that right) before deciding whether to play or drop Robert Green as goalie for the next match.  The team's psychologist (pausing again to let that settle on the brain) will evaluate Green's mental state, as well as that of his defenders.

I suggest locking them all in a room, blast them with vuvuzelas, and don't let them out until someone grows a pair.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #402 on: June 14, 2010, 01:58:08 pm »
This is fucking nuts.

England Coach Capello will be consulting the team's psychologist (yes, you read that right) before deciding whether to play or drop Robert Green as goalie for the next match.  The team's psychologist (pausing again to let that settle on the brain) will evaluate Green's mental state, as well as that of his defenders.

I suggest locking them all in a room, blast them with vuvuzelas, and don't let them out until someone grows a pair.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #403 on: June 14, 2010, 02:00:48 pm »
This is fucking nuts.

England Coach Capello will be consulting the team's psychologist (yes, you read that right) before deciding whether to play or drop Robert Green as goalie for the next match.  The team's psychologist (pausing again to let that settle on the brain) will evaluate Green's mental state, as well as that of his defenders.

I suggest locking them all in a room, blast them with vuvuzelas, and don't let them out until someone grows a pair.

For the first time, I am thinking that the USA can win the group and avoid Germany.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #404 on: June 14, 2010, 02:06:45 pm »
For the first time, I am thinking that the USA can win the group and avoid Germany.

Perhaps they should let the USA and England team up against Germany.  It'll be like old times.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #405 on: June 14, 2010, 02:08:24 pm »
Perhaps they should let the USA and England team up against Germany.  It'll be like old times.

France forfeits?

ETA: Japan did get an unexpected opening win...
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #406 on: June 14, 2010, 02:14:04 pm »
France forfeits?

Not so much forfeits, but gets completely overrun and is pretty much useless in the second half.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #407 on: June 14, 2010, 02:14:38 pm »
Wow.

I don't know which is cooler; Paraguay looking at an upset, or Italy dramaqueening a possible first match loss to Paraguay.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #408 on: June 14, 2010, 02:19:43 pm »

ETA: Japan did get an unexpected opening win...

Nobody saw that coming.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #409 on: June 14, 2010, 03:24:02 pm »
Not so much forfeits, but gets completely overrun and is pretty much useless in the second half.

forfeits, then plays for both sides.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #410 on: June 14, 2010, 03:30:43 pm »
For the first time, I am thinking that the USA can win the group and avoid Germany.

1) If both England and USA beat both Slovenia and Algeria, both go to the Round of 16, but #1 and #2 will come down to the tie-breakers enumerated earlier in this thread.  The last of which is a coin flip.

2) If either England or USA loses to Slovenia, then that team will go home, the other will win the group.  Slovenia goes through in the #2 slot.

3) If both England and USA lose to Slovenia, then Slovenia wins the group.  The tie-breakers will decide which of England and USA is the runner-up and which goes home.

4) If either England or USA loses to Algeria, they should seriously consider giving up the game.

5) Whoever plays Germany is going to get smoked.  Easily the best team I've seen so far.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #411 on: June 14, 2010, 04:04:42 pm »
BTW, referring to the above post, I should qualify that the "lose(s) to" phrase should really be "fails to beat".  At this point, a tie being as good (or as bad) as a defeat.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 04:06:38 pm by Limey »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #412 on: June 14, 2010, 04:18:00 pm »
France forfeits?

ETA: Japan did get an unexpected opening win...

So I should be looking for some team to drop the bomb on Japan in the game that eliminates them from the World Cup... Got it!

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #413 on: June 14, 2010, 05:04:30 pm »
From the dashed hopes department:  FIFA won't ban vuvuzelas.

Bugger.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #414 on: June 14, 2010, 05:44:09 pm »
BTW, referring to the above post, I should qualify that the "lose(s) to" phrase should really be "fails to beat".  At this point, a tie being as good (or as bad) as a defeat.

Yeah, but what if (all assuming England and US beat Algeria):

1.  England beats Slovenia, and USA ties Slovenia
2.  USA beats Slovenia, England ties Slovenia
3.  both England and USA tie Slovenia

I guess all depend on how badly England and US beat Algeria, but if all beat Algeria 1-0 you have a clusterfuck that will be settled by BS.  I bet then teams would wish they could have settled it on the field.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #415 on: June 14, 2010, 06:18:15 pm »
I bet then teams would wish they could have settled it on the field.


They have that opportunity, and it's their own fault if they fail to take it.  If you win all three of your group matches, you win the group and avoid all possibility of being in a coin-flip situation (actually, I think they draw lots).  That's why the USA coming back and earning a tie against England was so important: it prevents England from running the table (undeserved as it might have been) and keeps alive the possibility of the USA (or Slovenia) getting into the Round of 16 and avoiding Germany.

Actually, because of the tie, even Algeria are still in with a chance...on paper.

Now both England and USA have to go out and score as many goals as possible against the Slovenia and Algeria to stack the stats for the tie-breaks.  In this endeavour, it's advantage USA as you get to play Algeria last, meaning that you'll have a good idea of what you have to do against them.  BUT, you have to play Slovenia next, and they will have their tails up and be looking to defend their leadership position.

Everyone (not you, Alkie), still think ties are boring?

Of course, for the 1994 World Cup, England dicked around in qualifying, and had to beat tiny San Marino's part-timers by 7 goals in order to make the finals.  San Marino - Europe's worst team - proceeded to score the World Cup's faster ever goal.  England won 7-1, and missed the finals that time around.  Those were the finals held in the summer of 1994 in the United States.  In the spring of 1994, Limey moved to the United States.  Grrrrrrr.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #416 on: June 14, 2010, 07:00:45 pm »
Everyone (not you, Alkie), still think ties are boring?

I guess I missed the "ah-ha!" that would have led anyone to change their mind.  Is it about the game, or is it about tiebreaker rules in a tourney? Because the game ending in a tie sucked.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #417 on: June 14, 2010, 07:37:53 pm »
Everyone (not you, Alkie), still think ties are boring?

I just wanted a point of fact here:  I never said 1-1 was boring.  I said it was unsatisfying.   The match was fine (as far as soccer goes).

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #418 on: June 14, 2010, 08:20:37 pm »
I just wanted a point of fact here:  I never said 1-1 was boring.  I said it was unsatisfying.   The match was fine (as far as soccer goes).

Right.  I never said ties were boring, I said they were pointless and an obstacle to my becoming a fan of the sport.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #419 on: June 14, 2010, 10:01:19 pm »
My apologies. 

However, I'm hoping that I have at least made it more clear that the tie in group play adds to the overall intrigue, rather than diminish it, even if the individual result may be unsatisfactory. 

Losing isn't very satisfactory either.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #420 on: June 14, 2010, 10:11:51 pm »
This is fucking nuts.

England Coach Capello will be consulting the team's psychologist (yes, you read that right) before deciding whether to play or drop Robert Green as goalie for the next match.  The team's psychologist (pausing again to let that settle on the brain) will evaluate Green's mental state, as well as that of his defenders.

I suggest locking them all in a room, blast them with vuvuzelas, and don't let them out until someone grows a pair.

Honest question:  Is the whole notion of the British Stiff Upper Lip a complete fabrication or merely something of the past?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #421 on: June 14, 2010, 10:51:15 pm »
Losing isn't very satisfactory either.

Yeah, this one I disagree with.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #422 on: June 15, 2010, 12:10:15 am »
Losing isn't very satisfactory either.

It's better than a tie.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #423 on: June 15, 2010, 11:13:27 am »
I had forgotten how much I hate Cristiano Ronaldo, thankfully, he was diving all over the pitch today, in order to remind me of his complete douchebaggery.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #424 on: June 15, 2010, 11:22:14 am »
I had forgotten how much I hate Cristiano Ronaldo, thankfully, he was diving all over the pitch today, in order to remind me of his complete douchebaggery.

No.  No.  No!  You don't understand!

He's moving so fast that he's on the verge of being out of control the whole time, so the even the slightest whiff of contact will send him tumbling.  At least, that's what his current manager will say; every other manager says he's a diving cheat.

I hate him.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #425 on: June 15, 2010, 03:21:02 pm »
It's better than a tie.

I think North Korea losing only 2-1 to Brazil will be satisfactory for them, and very unsatisfactory for Brazil.

It's a funny ol' game.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #426 on: June 15, 2010, 08:52:44 pm »
I think North Korea losing only 2-1 to Brazil will be satisfactory for them, and very unsatisfactory for Brazil.

It's a funny ol' game.

The ridiculous showboating by Brazil late in that game almost had me rooting for North Korea, which is insane.  They were just playing around when they got up 2-0 like it was a scrimmage, everybody fooling around on these 1 and 2 man attacks trying to pad their stats.  Then the Koreans scored and the Brazilians were still showboating, and the Koreans actually had a couple of chances to tie it as a result.   Their best chance was with a minute or so left, on a break after the Brazilians had 6 guys up on a scoring attack.  6 guys attacking with a minute left when you're only up 1 goal in the world cup!  The Koreans might have had the goal too, but their main striker on their late chances was some dude the announcers were making fun of because he always shoots as soon as he gets the ball.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #427 on: June 15, 2010, 09:14:29 pm »
The ridiculous showboating by Brazil late in that game almost had me rooting for North Korea, which is insane. 

Supposedly the 100 NK fans were hired actors from China. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #428 on: June 16, 2010, 08:23:58 am »
Question.  In the Round of Sixteen, can two countries from the same region play each other?  There's a good chance that 2A v 1B will be Argentina v Uruguay.  If they can't face each other, who would be moved?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #429 on: June 16, 2010, 08:50:40 am »
The ridiculous showboating by Brazil late in that game almost had me rooting for North Korea, which is insane.  They were just playing around when they got up 2-0 like it was a scrimmage, everybody fooling around on these 1 and 2 man attacks trying to pad their stats.  Then the Koreans scored and the Brazilians were still showboating, and the Koreans actually had a couple of chances to tie it as a result.   Their best chance was with a minute or so left, on a break after the Brazilians had 6 guys up on a scoring attack.  6 guys attacking with a minute left when you're only up 1 goal in the world cup!  The Koreans might have had the goal too, but their main striker on their late chances was some dude the announcers were making fun of because he always shoots as soon as he gets the ball.

To be fair to the Brazilians, the "showboating" of which you speak is their natural style.  They seem to be just fucking around - what England's Coach Capello likes to call "resting with the ball" - but they are also moving the defense around, trying to work an opening and waiting for an opportunity at which point they strike like a cobra*.

* This was in the 1970 World Cup Final vs. 4-time World Champion Italy.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 09:05:06 am by Limey »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #430 on: June 16, 2010, 08:53:24 am »
Question.  In the Round of Sixteen, can two countries from the same region play each other?  There's a good chance that 2A v 1B will be Argentina v Uruguay.  If they can't face each other, who would be moved?



The bracket is fixed from the moment they draw the groups, and anyone can play anyone depending on how that goes for them.  Certain teams are seeded in the group draw, but that's pretty much it as far as engineering the match-ups goes.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #431 on: June 16, 2010, 09:02:22 am »
Supposedly the 100 NK fans were hired actors from China. 

I read that they re-edit the games that are shown domestically so that NK wins.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #432 on: June 16, 2010, 09:08:44 am »
Supposedly the 100 NK fans were hired actors from China. 

...and these 36 orange-clad hotties (SFW) were part of an "ambush advertising" stunt by a dutch brewery.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #433 on: June 16, 2010, 09:38:25 am »
...and these 36 orange-clad hotties (SFW) were part of an "ambush advertising" stunt by a dutch brewery.

So blowing on horns is okay but hot women in orange are verboten?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #434 on: June 16, 2010, 09:45:42 am »
Is it just me, or has Spain played the entire first half in Switzerland's penalty area without scoring a goal?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #435 on: June 16, 2010, 09:55:58 am »
Is it just me, or has Spain played the entire first half in Switzerland's penalty area without scoring a goal?

As Seth Meyers tweeted, "Thus far Swiss defense playing like regular cheese."
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #436 on: June 16, 2010, 10:09:02 am »
Is it just me, or has Spain played the entire first half in Switzerland's penalty area without scoring a goal?

68% of the possession, in a sport where 55% is notable dominance.

Spain's record since winning Euro 2008:  25W-1L-0D, scoring 75 goals in the process.  During WC 2010 qualifying, Switzerland lost to Luxembourg...at home.

From the Guardian's PBP:  "Half time: Spain 0-0 Switzerland.  Permission to weep for the future of football?"
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #437 on: June 16, 2010, 10:10:42 am »
Aaaaaaand right on cue, the Swiss take the cheese lead.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #438 on: June 16, 2010, 10:12:04 am »
Aaaaaaand right on cue, the Swiss take the cheese lead.

One goal on 2 shots (one of which was a free kick)?  That's Swiss efficiency!
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #439 on: June 16, 2010, 10:12:50 am »
Aaaaaaand right on cue, the Swiss take the cheese lead.
That was pretty awesome little exchange too... If keep gave up his body on that one, like US goalie did, he might have some broken ribs, but the Swiss would not have scored.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #440 on: June 16, 2010, 10:14:23 am »
That was pretty awesome little exchange too... If keep gave up his body on that one, like US goalie did, he might have some broken ribs, but the Swiss would not have scored.

More from the Guardian's (highly recommended) PBP:  "In a daft way Spain are lucky to just have conceded a goal, because both Casillas and Pique could have given away a penalty and been sent off during that attack."
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #441 on: June 16, 2010, 10:15:17 am »
One goal on 2 shots Two shots one goal (one of which was a free kick)?  That's Swiss efficiency!

FIFY
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #442 on: June 16, 2010, 10:21:12 am »
More from the Guardian's (highly recommended) PBP:  "In a daft way Spain are lucky to just have conceded a goal, because both Casillas and Pique could have given away a penalty and been sent off during that attack."

Video of the goal is available on ESPN's gamecast.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #443 on: June 16, 2010, 10:21:57 am »
FIFY

Spain has 30 touches in the attacking penalty area, while Switzerland has only 5.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #444 on: June 16, 2010, 10:27:24 am »
Why the fuck did 21 guys just stand around while that shot came off the crossbar?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #445 on: June 16, 2010, 10:31:22 am »
And now Switzerland hits the post.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #446 on: June 16, 2010, 10:34:31 am »
To be fair to the Brazilians, the "showboating" of which you speak is their natural style.  They seem to be just fucking around - what England's Coach Capello likes to call "resting with the ball" - but they are also moving the defense around, trying to work an opening and waiting for an opportunity at which point they strike like a cobra*.

* This was in the 1970 World Cup Final vs. 4-time World Champion Italy.

I get that part of it.  What bugged me was how, after they got 2 goals up, it seemed like everybody on their team was suddenly only interested in getting a goal for themselves so they wouldn't be left out of the party.  The earlier precision of their strikes was out the window in favor of just 1 or 2 guys trying to go against the entire Korean defense on their own.  It truly almost cost them a tie, as the Koreans had 3 genuine chances after their goal, all as a result of this singleminded attempt to pad individual stats.  I mean, on Brazil's second to last posession, in like the 92nd minute, they had 6 guys up to the penalty area.  Korea got the ball back after a sloppy 1 on 5 strike, got the ball back the other way and quickly had a great chance to score.  Unfortunately the guy who ended up with the ball was the Korean guy who literally takes a shot as soon as he touches the ball no matter where he is.

And yeah, the part about the North Koreans hiring actors to be their fans was pretty hilarious.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #447 on: June 16, 2010, 10:45:30 am »
Thanks for the Gaurdian link Limey.  Good commentary.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #448 on: June 16, 2010, 10:52:58 am »
Aaaaaand... fin.  Swiss win 1-0.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #449 on: June 16, 2010, 10:52:58 am »
Wow!!
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #450 on: June 16, 2010, 10:53:56 am »
Arizona just lost to Santa Clara in the first round.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #451 on: June 16, 2010, 10:58:30 am »
Thanks for the Gaurdian link Limey.  Good commentary.

You're welcome.  Tune in for every match to read classic commentary such as "Ramos zips dangerously into the box from the right and then toebungs fecklessly wide of the near post".

Also, your typo of "Gaurdian" is apropos, as the print version used to be famous for typos itself.  So much so that's its nickname is the "Grauniad", after the (false) urban legend that that's how they once printed their own name.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #452 on: June 16, 2010, 11:00:51 am »
Aaaaaand... fin.  Swiss win 1-0.

The last, crumbling pillars of my bracket have just been kicked out from under it.  Brazil vs Spain in the Ro16 is a real possibility when I had that as the final (with Spain winning).
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #453 on: June 16, 2010, 11:02:45 am »
WHOA!  The suprise's in this tourney are the freaking best! 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #454 on: June 16, 2010, 03:48:57 pm »
WHOA!  The suprise's in this tourney are the freaking best! 

I'm feeling sorry for the hosts right now.  Uruguay merited the win, but the ejection of the SA keeper and the ensuing penalty were both harsh to say the least.  I felt the whole time that SA were getting the rough end of the ref., but there was nothing really egregious (like that obvious thought-foul on Robert "Super Hands" Green) that impacted the result.

Good news is that, now, Mexico and France are in a true Thunderdome scenario.  I'm clearly neutral in that one so, all I'll say is: Viva México!   
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #455 on: June 16, 2010, 04:10:03 pm »
Good news is that, now, Mexico and France are in a true Thunderdome scenario.  I'm clearly neutral in that one so, all I'll say is: Viva México!   

That'll be a great one. 

The second game of group stage is where all the moving and shaking happens.  Teams have to be more aggressive now that the landscape is starting to take form, so I think we'll see more goals and less ties.  This tournament quickly heats up after the feeling-it-out phase of the first game.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #456 on: June 16, 2010, 04:50:48 pm »
I'm feeling sorry for the hosts right now.  Uruguay merited the win, but the ejection of the SA keeper and the ensuing penalty were both harsh to say the least.  I felt the whole time that SA were getting the rough end of the ref., but there was nothing really egregious (like that obvious thought-foul on Robert "Super Hands" Green) that impacted the result.

Good news is that, now, Mexico and France are in a true Thunderdome scenario.  I'm clearly neutral in that one so, all I'll say is: Viva México!   

I'm rooting for France b/c Alkie is rooting for Mexico.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #457 on: June 16, 2010, 04:54:27 pm »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #458 on: June 16, 2010, 05:42:47 pm »
But Alkie has a good point.  Obviously someone agrees ties aren't a great way to resolve things because they do away with them in the later rounds, even going with something as trivial as penalty kicks.  By your logic, if even in the championship two teams play their hearts out, go back and forth all game, shouldn't they just call it a tie and both go home satisfied at a good match, both as champions?

I don't understand, did my logic say "this round" in anything I posted?  If it did not, then let me crystal clear: the context of a tie is "this round", a round-robin affair where "points" are the goals for teams wanting to move on.  If you play your best and it ends in a tie, you're awarded a point.  A point is good, not great, but it is way better than no points.  Because you accumulate points throughout the 3 game round-robin, you start to see where the points you're getting will help you advance.  England and USA should beat Algeria, just like Slovenia did.  If they don't, then they don't deserve to move on.  Slovenia has already taken care of the three points they knew they could get in this group round robin play.  The worse thing that could happen to them is they lose to both USA and England, because they will only have the three point cumulative.  The USA and England can count the one point acquired plus the 3 points they should get when they win over Algeria, that is four points total.  With a win over Slovenia for each, then it jumps to seven points each with the goal differential playing a part of where each will be seeded next.  If, on the other hand, both USA and England tie with Slovenia, you will end up with a three teams at five points each.  The goal differential will determine who goes on and who goes home.  Last year, in the Confederation Gold Cup (in South Africa), the US was facing a similar fate in their last match in the round-robin.  They needed to win against Egypt and they needed the team above them in the points standings to lose.  But that would only assure a tie with the team above them, so they knew not only that they needed to win the last match, but they needed to win by three goals to advance.  It was exciting to watch that match as the USA did exactly that, scored a victory but they also knocked in three goals (my favorite being the Michael Bradley goal, set up beautifully by the midfield play of both Bradley and Donovan).  So I know everyone expects wins and loses in single games, but this is tournament play and the first round is all about points and goal differential. 

The context of "this round" is all you need to know to understand my logic.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #459 on: June 16, 2010, 05:46:45 pm »
That's not what Noe's saying.  He's saying that ties are okay because sometimes two teams just play their hearts out and if they draw under that circumstance then the winner is the fan.  I think Alkie's point, if I may interpret, is that if England really considers it a 'soft loss' to tie with the US, and the US a 'soft victory' to tie with England, then why not decide it in a real way that cuts through that ambiguity.  Or at least do it like hockey, where each time gets a point for tieing at the end of regulation, but the winner of overtime gets the full win.

Wow, you didn't read a thing I said at all.  How can you bold face lie about what I said?  It's not that hard to read my post, is it?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #460 on: June 16, 2010, 05:51:41 pm »
So if USA and England both tie their next two games with equal total goals scored, and they are tied for the #2 spot.....it goes to a random draw for the chance to move on?

If that's actually true, everything Noe and chuck have said is out the window.  

If England and USA do not beat Algeria, then I don't care what system you use, both of them should be sent home.  It's like the Pittsburgh Steelers losing a real game to a junior college team.  If that happens, the Steelers should just be totally ashame of themselves.  Why are you worried about losing or a tie with Algeria?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 06:04:45 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #461 on: June 16, 2010, 05:57:11 pm »
Something I can completely agree with.  All the games should be "must wins."   It's like a tournament and shit.

Oh, NOW we're talking about the single event.   How convenient.

This really is, quite possibly, the stupidest non-politics thread here ever.   HH and I are arguing that the point of any single competition is to have a winner and a loser.   You, chuck, Noe and whoever else (I've lost track) are suggesting that we're somehow missing the point of a round robin tournament where ties are granted points; as if maybe our science/math based advanced degrees have failed us or that we're just rednecks (which is possible).   While I am genuinely embarrassed that my feelings on this matter make me uncharacteristically small-minded and Merikun, it's just a matter of philosophies and none of us are likely to budge.   HH and I completely get that the point of the first round is simply "to move on" and not to "win 3 games."   We understand the rules (in that regard).   We like rules.   I'm for regulation.   Our problem isn't that there are rules, it's that we think the rules are silly because they have possible non-answer outcomes.   That the biggest sporting event on the face of the earth could conceivably end in a 4-way tie that would be decided by random draw for advancement doesn't jive for me (and I assume HH).

Define winner and loser to me.  If the Houston Texans win the last game of the season in 2009, they won... correct?  But they had to sit around and wait to see if the Bengals won a game over the Jets in order for them to realize a playoff berth.  The Jets won, the Texans, while *winners* of the last game (the single competition), did not take that and hoist it as a great accomplishment... instead they bemoaned the fact the Bengals laid down and did not play their best against the Jets.  They, in essence, decided that the greater picture is the fact that they did *NOT* make it to the playoffs, regardless of the single winning moment.  I can celebrate battles won with the best of them, but winning the war is always the goal of a team... is it not?

BTW - if England and the USA (and Slovenia) allowed Algeria to tie them in a four way, then they all deserve to have FIFA do a draw to see who advances.  That is the height of laying down if Algeria were involved in a four way tie with those squads.  I'd welcome a random draw at that point just to add shame to the humiliation that all the other three teams brought on to themselves.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 06:00:30 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #462 on: June 17, 2010, 08:57:03 am »
So...5 goals in 2 games for Argentina and none for Messi?  The worlds greatest player is obviously not playing yet, right?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #463 on: June 17, 2010, 09:16:16 am »
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #464 on: June 17, 2010, 09:39:28 am »
Soccer does not mess around.  The threat of a red card is what allows a game to be better controlled by a single ref than an NBA game is with 3.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #465 on: June 17, 2010, 10:33:04 am »
So...5 goals in 2 games for Argentina and none for Messi?  The worlds greatest player is obviously not playing yet, right?

He's been at the center of most of the goals. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #466 on: June 17, 2010, 11:08:54 am »
Soccer does not mess around.  The threat of a red card is what allows a game to be better controlled by a single ref than an NBA game is with 3.

Howard Webb should've red-carded the Spanish goalie for the physical assault on the Swiss striker just before the goal.  It annoys me when refs decide to let automatic ejections slide because a goal was scored.  Anywhere else on the field, the perpetrator of a foul like that gets his marching orders.

Yes, I am aware that Webb is the English representative in the officiating ranks.  Last WC, Englishman Graham Poll let an Italian (IIRC) stay on the field after his 2nd yellow, and only red-carded him after his third yellow.  Officiating this time around has been much better so far, and reasonably consistnet, Howard Webb notwithstanding.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #467 on: June 17, 2010, 11:30:23 am »
So if USA and England both tie their next two games with equal total goals scored, and they are tied for the #2 spot.....it goes to a random draw for the chance to move on?

If that's actually true, everything Noe and chuck have said is out the window.   

Americans and soccer.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #468 on: June 17, 2010, 11:56:17 am »
Americans and soccer.

Did you build that?   It's pretty much dead on.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #469 on: June 17, 2010, 12:22:23 pm »
Did you build that?   It's pretty much dead on.

Not me.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #470 on: June 17, 2010, 12:30:53 pm »
WC humour.  Just received this via email:

Quote
Friday 18th of June, don't miss it! A war between two nations, England and
Algeria! One of them a fanatical Muslim country, where bombers and
terrorists are born and trained, where tough sharia law is being implemented
and white Christians are outcasts and live in fear. The other is a shithole
in North Africa.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #471 on: June 17, 2010, 12:51:15 pm »
The nutshell for France - Mexico, from the Guardian's fabulous minute-by-minute commentary:

Quote
Diego Forlan drove Uruguay top of this group last night with their emphatic win over hosts South Africa, which means defeat for either of these two sides [France and Mexico] would leave them in all sorts of bother, leaving them three points off the pace with one match to play and relying on other results, goal difference, other teams not conspiring against them by colluding and all the usual last-round-of-the-group-stage shenanigans.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #472 on: June 17, 2010, 01:14:29 pm »
Ok, explain the rankings to me.   USA appears to be 14th.  But who ranked them there?    If you go team by team, it seems pretty obvious that USA would be expected to lose to a number of teams below them and aren't the 14th best team in the world.

I mean, I just watched a piece about how if the US doesn't win tomorrow, there's genuine concern about being Algeria.  I mean, really?    How is USA 14th?  Who put them there and does that actually mean anything?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #473 on: June 17, 2010, 01:15:47 pm »
Ok, explain the rankings to me.   USA appears to be 14th.  But who ranked them there?    If you go team by team, it seems pretty obvious that USA would be expected to lose to a number of teams below them and aren't the 14th best team in the world.

I mean, I just watched a piece about how if the US doesn't win tomorrow, there's genuine concern about being Algeria.  I mean, really?    How is USA 14th?  Who put them there and does that actually mean anything?

ESPN has one set of rankings, FIFA another, and Limey another still.  Fortunately, the tiebreakers will now include the computer rankings as one-third of the formula. 
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #474 on: June 17, 2010, 01:22:10 pm »
So they are, in fact, completely made-the-fuck up.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #475 on: June 17, 2010, 01:25:15 pm »
So they are, in fact, completely made-the-fuck up.

If they weren't, they'd be standings.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #476 on: June 17, 2010, 01:48:07 pm »
WC humour.  Just received this via email:

Now that's funny.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #477 on: June 17, 2010, 02:03:02 pm »
Ok, someone splains me this...

How is it that real live Mexicans are made of rubber and steel...go on, try to injure one on the job; it can't be done.  I've seen it.

But the Mexicans that play professional sports are little fucking girls made of glass and styrofoam.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #478 on: June 17, 2010, 02:18:23 pm »
Ok, someone splains me this...

How is it that real live Mexicans are made of rubber and steel...go on, try to injure one on the job; it can't be done.  I've seen it.

But the Mexicans that play professional sports are little fucking girls made of glass and styrofoam.

And France is the one making them act like little girls.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #479 on: June 17, 2010, 02:19:08 pm »
Ok, someone splains me this...

How is it that real live Mexicans are made of rubber and steel...go on, try to injure one on the job; it can't be done.  I've seen it.

But the Mexicans that play professional sports are little fucking girls made of glass and styrofoam.

Pretty sure wearing blue jeans and long sleeve shirts while putting shingles on a roof in August has something to do with it.  Fucking baked in toughness.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #480 on: June 17, 2010, 02:20:57 pm »
Pretty sure wearing blue jeans and long sleeve shirts while putting shingles on a roof in August has something to do with it.  Fucking baked in toughness.

Racist.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #481 on: June 17, 2010, 02:51:21 pm »
Offsides doesn't count if you're Mexican apparently.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #482 on: June 17, 2010, 02:57:32 pm »
Offsides doesn't count if you're Mexican apparently.

There's a racist border joke here.  Alkie?
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #483 on: June 17, 2010, 02:59:48 pm »
Offsides doesn't count if you're Mexican apparently.

He looked even with defender when the ball was struck.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #484 on: June 17, 2010, 03:00:08 pm »
There's a racist border joke here.  Alkie?

Why you picking on the dude from Mexico?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #485 on: June 17, 2010, 03:09:21 pm »
2-0 Mexico.

Bye, bye, Frenchies.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #486 on: June 17, 2010, 03:19:26 pm »
2-0 Mexico.

Bye, bye, Frenchies.

It would have been fun to have the Irish there.  What a waste of a cheat.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #487 on: June 17, 2010, 03:20:02 pm »
VIVA EL TRI!   

Don't worry, the rest of you rooting for USA can root with me next week when your team is gone from the tourney.

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #488 on: June 17, 2010, 03:25:11 pm »
He looked even with defender when the ball was struck.

More even than Greece's winning goal.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #489 on: June 17, 2010, 03:37:37 pm »
VIVA EL TRI!   

Don't worry, the rest of you rooting for USA can root with me next week when your team is gone from the tourney.

When you start rooting for the Yankees in the playoffs, I will deliver the mercy killing.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #490 on: June 17, 2010, 03:43:33 pm »
When you start rooting for the Yankees in the playoffs, I will deliver the mercy killing.

That, I can promise you, will never fucking happen.

Last year, I thought "oh what the hell, I live here now."   It lasted, no shit, until the starting lineups.  I can't do it.

Limey

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #491 on: June 17, 2010, 03:48:52 pm »
Offsides doesn't count if you're Mexican apparently.

...when playing France, who are only there by virtue of Henri's blatant-as-fuck handball against Ireland.

Actually, the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacking player.  Freezeframe shows him fractionally offside, but (IMH, NBAF(M), O) the assistant made the right call because in real time there would've been shitloads of doubt.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #492 on: June 17, 2010, 03:58:30 pm »
It would have been fun to have the Irish there.  What a waste of a cheat.

It was classic when the English commentator ...um...commented, before Mexico's penalty, that if it went in France would be deep in the trenches.  Pretty much everyone in ear shot said "Well that'd be a fucking first!"
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #493 on: June 18, 2010, 08:13:20 am »
Serbia still up 1-0 over the Krauts.  Krauts apparently screwed by weak red card.  Can't tell since I'm at work (and wouldn't really know if I were watching the game).  

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #494 on: June 18, 2010, 08:21:30 am »
Serbia takes it. I didn't see the red card but it better have been deserved. Germany over 50 minutes down a man.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #495 on: June 18, 2010, 08:36:15 am »
Serbia takes it. I didn't see the red card but it better have been deserved. Germany over 50 minutes down a man.

It wasn't. It was Klose's second yellow of the first half (the last of six total awarded in that half), and it was nothing more than a little love-tap on the ankle. The referee set the bar way too low for those cards. I think that Lahm also got one, which means that he gets to sit out the next game, too.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #496 on: June 18, 2010, 08:36:50 am »
It was on his second yellow.  Referee was pulling yellow cards when he probably should have been calling fouls.  However, he had done so several times prior to that foul and had called it both ways prior to that foul.  Was he quick on the draw? Probably.  Was it unfair to the German side? No, definitely not.  Both teams should have realized by then that the referee was quick with the yellow card and adjusted their play accordingly. I knew when he committed the foul that a card would come out just by observing how he was calling the game.  

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #497 on: June 18, 2010, 09:07:02 am »
Can't get the ESPN feed online -- anybody have another link for this morning's futbol?  Thx.
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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #498 on: June 18, 2010, 09:15:17 am »
That goal was surprising because, I mean, USA is 14th in the world.   

How bad is England?

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Re: Copa Mundial 2010
« Reply #499 on: June 18, 2010, 09:15:41 am »
Slovenia up 1 on a typical fubar by USA defense.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.