Luke Scott loves Jesus

[WulawHorn]

I know this won't surprise anyone here.

He was on 610 this morning and in an eight minute interview he mentioned God 9 times.

I'm a christian, and I don't really have a problem with anyone speaking their mind on this subject- but I know many people don't want to hear it.

It actually wasn't bad like you hear some guys say- God wanted us to win this game...

It was more of him saying that his faith kept him strong and focussed and helped him to focus and keep his eyes on the prize as he jumped down between the minor's and major's, had to persevere through some career setbacks.

On a baseball note, he said that he has a reputation throughout his career as a streak hitter, but last year was his most consistent year ever.  Said he put on some wait in training excersizes and maintained/increased his flexibility.  Granato said that the ball is flying off his bat.  

It was like John was trying to get Luke to say something bad abort the Org not giving him a full time/ non platoon job in RF. Look did not take the bait and worked god into his answer again as to that question- saying he would deal with whatever his role was and look to God for support on his playing time. Talked about his gun piece and said everyone on the team ragged on him, but he likes target shooting/hunting with his dad and brother.

[JimR]

his religion is his personal business.

no point in any of us making it an issue.

[CarolinaStro]

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his religion is his personal business.

no point in any of us making it an issue.

Too bad the other Pope does not have similar thoughts on such issues.

[pravata]

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his religion is his personal business.

no point in any of us making it an issue.

Too bad the other Pope does not have similar thoughts on such issues.

I assume you mean the one with the big hat.  He can't hit a curve ball.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

If you hadn't noticed, the void is over...

[Golden Sombrero]

He's officially an Astro.

[WulawHorn]

Like I said- I don't have any problem with him saying anything he wants to- it's a free country.

I would argue, however, that by him talking about it to the media that takes it out of personal business and puts it in the public domain to be a topic of conversation.

Contrast this with a guy like Biggio, who is a devout catholic but you never hear him say anything about it. The only reason I know this is b/c Larry Dierker mentioned it in his book- that Bidge went to mass every single sunday, even on the road.

Really there isn't much to say on it as it relates to bidge.  There also isn't much to say on it as it relates to Luke, other than he brought it up a whole bunch of times in a relatively short interview.

Like I said though- It didn't seem as forced as some guys, nor knuckleheaded like Isaac Bruce of the Rams in SI a couple of years ago.

[MusicMan]

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his religion is his personal business.

no point in any of us making it an issue.

Too bad the other Pope does not have similar thoughts on such issues.

Did it perhaps escape your attention that it's very much part of the Pope's job description?

[drew corleone]

Luke has referenced his faith in a number of articles/interviews I've seen from him. It doesn't bother me at all.

It sure beats having a player slam a stripper's head into the stage and paper her with $1 bills.

[Bench]

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It sure beats having a player slam a stripper's head into the stage and paper her with $1 bills.

Especially when he wasn't even planning on letting her keep them!

[pravata]

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Luke has referenced his faith in a number of articles/interviews I've seen from him. It doesn't bother me at all.

It sure beats having a player slam a stripper's head into the stage and paper her with $1 bills.

In the past, these kinds of discussions have tended to skid off the road and make divets in Mr McGrimm's front lawn.   Luke Scott is the norm in the Astros clubhouse.

[toddthebod]

Some metaphysical questions:

When I was a kid and someone told you what religion they were, they would say, Catholic, or Baptist, or Epicopalian or Lutheran.  Today, you hear a lot of people simply say that they are Christian.  What does that mean?  Is saying that you are Christian mean that you are rejecting the dogma of various Christian sects, is it a return to the origins of Chrisitanity, or is it just shorthand way of saying that you are an evangelical Christian?

[homer]

Paging Spack...

[Holly]

Probably just simply not feeling the need to micro-categorize. If it's a sect, it's not Christian. The word you're looking for THERE is "denomination."

Anyhow.

[coop]

Luke seems like a great kid with a hard work ethic and grounded values.  

I could care less where he finds that foundation and the source for his drive...that's his business and how he wants to share it with the public is his as well.

In fact it's refreshing to hear someone that seems so down to earth as Luke.  He will be a great role model for many kids.

It's a shame that the media seems to chase down and sell the stories of all the freaks and jerks in sports.

The only thing that matters to me, and so it should, right now is going to be how performs between the lines come Opening Day and after.

[drew corleone]

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Luke has referenced his faith in a number of articles/interviews I've seen from him. It doesn't bother me at all.

It sure beats having a player slam a stripper's head into the stage and paper her with $1 bills.

In the past, these kinds of discussions have tended to skid off the road and make divets in Mr McGrimm's front lawn.   Luke Scott is the norm in the Astros clubhouse.

Agreed.

[NeilT]

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Some metaphysical questions:

When I was a kid and someone told you what religion they were, they would say, Catholic, or Baptist, or Epicopalian or Lutheran.  Today, you hear a lot of people simply say that they are Christian.  What does that mean?  Is saying that you are Christian mean that you are rejecting the dogma of various Christian sects, is it a return to the origins of Chrisitanity, or is it just shorthand way of saying that you are an evangelical Christian?

I'd guess it means that the speaker fits somewhere in a spectrum between someone who is vaguely culturally Christian (but not practicing) to being Orthodox Christian (who never accepted the filioque) to being evangelical (whatever that means).  It probably means exactly what the speaker thinks it means, but isn't very helpful to anybody else.  You wouldn't know unless you asked more questions.

I'd guess that designating denomination had a lot more meaning when you were growing up in Houston, and probably hasn't meant as much in the Northeast for a long time.

[drew corleone]

[mack brown] He's a good kid from a good family. [/mack brown]

[toddthebod]

Sorry Holly.  The word "denomination" escaped me at the time and I've been reading way too many back issues of "Biblical Archeology" where everything is called a "sect."

[Bench]

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Some metaphysical questions:

When I was a kid and someone told you what religion they were, they would say, Catholic, or Baptist, or Epicopalian or Lutheran.  Today, you hear a lot of people simply say that they are Christian.  What does that mean?  Is saying that you are Christian mean that you are rejecting the dogma of various Christian sects, is it a return to the origins of Chrisitanity, or is it just shorthand way of saying that you are an evangelical Christian?

I'd guess it means that the speaker fits somewhere in a spectrum between someone who is vaguely culturally Christian (but not practicing) to being Orthodox Christian (who never accepted the filioque) to being evangelical (whatever that means).  It probably means exactly what the speaker thinks it means, but isn't very helpful to anybody else.  You wouldn't know unless you asked more questions.

I'd guess that designating denomination had a lot more meaning when you were growing up in Houston, and probably hasn't meant as much in the Northeast for a long time.

In my experience living in the Northeast Christianity was pretty much divvied up into the major denominations (Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, etc...) with the occasional Christian Scientists and what-have-yous thrown in. Whereas down here, driving around I see a lot more churches that don't readily identify with any of the traditional denominations with names like The Friendship Church and Cathedral in the Pines, etc. I never saw very many independant churches in New England. I always assumed that the churches that don't have "Catholic" or "Lutheran" or "Methodist" or "Episcoplian" on their signs were independent evangelical churches, of which the South has a great many more than the Northeast.

[NeilT]

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Some metaphysical questions:

When I was a kid and someone told you what religion they were, they would say, Catholic, or Baptist, or Epicopalian or Lutheran.  Today, you hear a lot of people simply say that they are Christian.  What does that mean?  Is saying that you are Christian mean that you are rejecting the dogma of various Christian sects, is it a return to the origins of Chrisitanity, or is it just shorthand way of saying that you are an evangelical Christian?

I'd guess it means that the speaker fits somewhere in a spectrum between someone who is vaguely culturally Christian (but not practicing) to being Orthodox Christian (who never accepted the filioque) to being evangelical (whatever that means).  It probably means exactly what the speaker thinks it means, but isn't very helpful to anybody else.  You wouldn't know unless you asked more questions.

I'd guess that designating denomination had a lot more meaning when you were growing up in Houston, and probably hasn't meant as much in the Northeast for a long time.

In my experience living in the Northeast Christianity was pretty much divvied up into the major denominations (Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, etc...) with the occasional Christian Scientists and what-have-yous thrown in. Whereas down here, driving around I see a lot more churches that don't readily identify with any of the traditional denominations with names like The Friendship Church and Cathedral in the Pines, etc. I never saw very many independant churches in New England. I always assumed that the churches that don't have "Catholic" or "Lutheran" or "Methodist" or "Episcoplian" on their signs were independent evangelical churches, of which the South has a great many more than the Northeast.

My thought was that in the South, 20 years ago (or maybe 40 years ago), you were assumed to be Christian (and probably Protestant) and the question wasn't whether you were or weren't, but denomination (Assembly of God, Methodist, Church of Christ, Episcopalian).  In, say, New York, your Christianity wouldn't have been an automatic assumption, and the distinction between Assembly of God and Presbyterian wouldn't be as finely tuned in most listening audiences.  My first response to that question may be Methodist, or it may be Christian, depending on the audience.  Among Orthodox Christians, my saying I'm Christian might well be seen as presumptive so I'd give my denomination, or say I was Protestant.  Among a mixed-faith audience, saying I was Methodist might not have much meaning either, so I might well say I'm Protestant, or Christian.  Depending on my mood, but I probably wouldn't say I was Methodist.  It's just that 20 years ago, in the South, I wouldn't have expected a mixed-faith audience.

[Fredia]

like the southern baptist. they are baptist yes but take a much harder line on things than  other baptist demoninations. and as for Luke the force Scott speaking of his faith, i too would rathet hear this out of his mouth than roids, i am not that childs daddy, or if i dont get the millions i want i will take my marbles and go play elsewhere.

[Limey]

I don't have a problem with someone having faith and extolling that faith.  My problem is when God is credited for helping with a win, or a hit/putt/touchdown/goal etc. etc.  The intention behind that kind of statement is almost certainly innocent, but the inference is that the victorious won because they were more worthy in God's eyes than their opponent.  This is the height of arrogance, IMHO, and belittles both the sporting competition and God him/her/their self.

Bottom line:

God helped me get through the tough times and training and traveling and hard slog of the season...Ding!

God was on our side tonight...Bzzzzzzzzt!

[HurricaneDavid]

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My problem is when God is credited for helping with a win, or a hit/putt/touchdown/goal etc. etc.

The Image

[guitarcec]

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I don't have a problem with someone having faith and extolling that faith.  My problem is when God is credited for helping with a win, or a hit/putt/touchdown/goal etc. etc.  The intention behind that kind of statement is almost certainly innocent, but the inference is that the victorious won because they were more worthy in God's eyes than their opponent.  This is the height of arrogance, IMHO, and belittles both the sporting competition and God him/her/their self.

Bottom line:

God helped me get through the tough times and training and traveling and hard slog of the season...Ding!

God was on our side tonight...Bzzzzzzzzt!

this is a very good distiniction to make. i've always thought of it like this, but you put it to words perfectly! i find it very hard to believe that God cares who wins a baseball game, even if it's a big one! i would think the way a person handles himself and his status, and the way he treats others, would be a little higher up on God's list.

[ASTROCREEP]

Someones religion or lack of religion says absolutely NOTHING about their character.


LETS PLAY BALL!!!! Is it just me or does this seem like the longest offseason ever?

[Limey]

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Is it just me or does this seem like the longest offseason ever?

It's longer than usual for Astros' fans because there was no post season.  It's always this long for the Pyroots etc.

[strosrays]

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Luke Scott loves Jesus

At first glance, I thought this meant he loved JDjO, like prav.

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When I was a kid and someone told you what religion they were, they would say, Catholic, or Baptist, or Epicopalian or Lutheran.  Today, you hear a lot of people simply say that they are Christian.  What does that mean?  Is saying that you are Christian mean that you are rejecting the dogma of various Christian sects, is it a return to the origins of Chrisitanity, or is it just shorthand way of saying that you are an evangelical Christian?

I usually take it as the latter.  You know, "I'm a Christian.  (More Christian than you are, probably.)"

Actually, as someone already said, it probably means whatever the person who said it thinks it means.  Personally, I know all the mainline Protestant sects pretty well, but I've lost track of the various smaller denominations and splinter groups that have multiplied over the years.  So if it is not one of the 7 or 8 big Protestant churches, I would just as soon someone told me "Christian."  At least I know what that means. . . non-Catholic (in the way I most commonly hear it used), and non-Jew.  And nowadays, non-Muslim for sure.

Then there are guys like Zola Levitt.  I think he calls himself a messianic Jew.  What's a Christian to think?

[Limey]

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Then there are guys like Zola Levitt.  I think he calls himself a messianic Jew.  What's a Christian to think?

If you really want to blow your mind, consider that God in Islam is the same God in Christianity which is, of course, the same God in Judaism.  The differences are whether Jesus Christ was the Son of God, a prophet of God (but not as important as Mohamed) or a cool guy who may be the Son of God but who didn't meet the all tests for Messianic status.

Next week, there'll be a theological study of the infield fly rule.

[JimR]

please, God, make it stop!

[NeilT]

Done.

[strosrays]

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Done.

Nice try, heathen.

And it's "Jah", mon.

[geezerdonk]

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Next week, there'll be a theological study of the infield fly rule.

Followed closely by a discussion of the infidel fly rule.

[toddthebod]

 

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or a cool guy who may be the Son of God but who didn't meet the all tests for Messianic status.
 

Within Judaism, there are a bunch of different views about Jesus.  There are people who say that Jesus never existed historically.  There are others who say that Jesus was basically an early "reformed rabbi" in the sense that he sought to change existing religous practices, including the laws of keeping kosher -- not that he ever claimed to be the messiah.  Then there are others who say that he claimed to be the messiah but did not meet the tests in Judaism for messianic status.  I don't believe that you are going to find a lot of practicing Jews who would take the view that Jesus was the "son of god" except in the most broad sense that we are all children of god.

[Taras Bulba]

We're covering old ground here.  Jesus got rung up by Pilate.  After three days, he was gone from the dugout.

[Limey]

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or a cool guy who may be the Son of God but who didn't meet the all tests for Messianic status.
 

Within Judaism, there are a bunch of different views about Jesus.  There are people who say that Jesus never existed historically.  There are others who say that Jesus was basically an early "reformed rabbi" in the sense that he sought to change existing religous practices, including the laws of keeping kosher -- not that he ever claimed to be the messiah.  Then there are others who say that he claimed to be the messiah but did not meet the tests in Judaism for messianic status.  I don't believe that you are going to find a lot of practicing Jews who would take the view that Jesus was the "son of god" except in the most broad sense that we are all children of god.

Cool.  Thanks for the correction.  I'm Church of England which is really a faith-optional kind of religion.

[Limey]

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We're covering old ground here.  Jesus got rung up by Pilate.  After three days, he was gone from the dugout.

Are you saying that Jesus is like Bobby Valentine?

[Duder]

While on the subject of Scott, according to Alyson Footer's mailbag, Scott has bulked up considerably. The Link   Last Question

[Taras Bulba]

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While on the subject of Scott, according to Alyson Footer's mailbag, Scott has bulked up considerably. The Link   Last Question

Cabrera is a pharisee.

[TheWizard]

Who cares if he mentions God in his interviews?  If he is a religious man, good for him.. if not, ok then.

Unrelated note, anyone catch that piece (think it was on ESPN.com) on Luke Scott and how he carries a concealed weapon.  I thought it was such a silly article, and was trying to make him out to be this renegade cowboy from Texas.  I've also noticed he mentions God several times during interviews, so I don't see anything wrong with it... might offset the thought he is a pistol-waving maniac.. haha.

[pravata]

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...It was more of him saying that his faith kept him strong and focussed and helped him to focus ...

Ensberg's word for the day is accountable.  "It?s a very strong Christian team so there?s actually quite a bit of accountability. It?s been great. Adam Everett, who?s one of my closest friends, and I talk a lot ? not only about baseball or about life but also keep ourselves accountable. I think that?s something very, very important. There?s always somebody there in the locker room and somebody there after the game to make sure that you?re walking in the right ways. That?s really been a huge blessing. It would be a lot more difficult if there wasn?t that accountability."
The Link

[toddthebod]

I wonder how Hunter Pence is going to fit on this team.  He wouldn't appear to be part of the same mold.

[Jacksonian]

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I wonder how Hunter Pence is going to fit on this team.  He wouldn't appear to be part of the same mold.

And some learn the hard way.  The Link

[pravata]

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I wonder how Hunter Pence is going to fit on this team.  He wouldn't appear to be part of the same mold.

Berkman doesn't necessarily view tolerance positively.

"In society, there's a victim mentality, there's kind of an anything goes, wishy-washy, if-it-feels-good-do-it mentality," he says. "I think it's very dangerous. To me, the buzz word in America is 'tolerance.' You have to tolerate anything."

"And even if you don't agree with it, it's all about tolerance. And I don't think that's any way to live. Real men are defined by strong values."
The Link

[Taras Bulba]

It reminds that these are all fairly young men who don't see a lot of gray at this stage of their lives.  Like other entertainers, it sometimes helps to turn down the volume a little while they are on their soapbox.

[homer]

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I wonder how Hunter Pence is going to fit on this team.  He wouldn't appear to be part of the same mold.

What makes you say that?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

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I don't have a problem with someone having faith and extolling that faith.  My problem is when God is credited for helping with a win, or a hit/putt/touchdown/goal etc. etc.  The intention behind that kind of statement is almost certainly innocent, but the inference is that the victorious won because they were more worthy in God's eyes than their opponent.  This is the height of arrogance, IMHO, and belittles both the sporting competition and God him/her/their self.

Bottom line:

God helped me get through the tough times and training and traveling and hard slog of the season...Ding!

God was on our side tonight...Bzzzzzzzzt!

Just once I'd like to see a ballplayer come out and say, "I just want to thank my lord and savior Satan." That would be pretty funny. People would flip. Could he backtrack out of it and say he was just kidding to get a rise, or would he be doomed?

[UpTooLate]

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It reminds that these are all fairly young men who don't see a lot of gray at this stage of their lives.  Like other entertainers, it sometimes helps to turn down the volume a little while they are on their soapbox.

As Noe would say: Eggszactly!! (or however the hell he spells it)

It is all fine and good that these guys have Christian values.  There are certainly worse things they could be.  But I do grow tired of hearing about it.  Maybe it's just me.

[Limey]

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Just once I'd like to see a ballplayer come out and say, "I just want to thank my lord and savior Satan." That would be pretty funny. People would flip. Could he backtrack out of it and say he was just kidding to get a rise, or would he be doomed?

He'd be doomed; just marginally faster than if he thanked Allah.

[Holly]

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I'm Church of England which is really a faith-optional kind of religion.

Much more like a hobby, isn't it? Do you have shoulder muscles?

[Holly]

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It reminds that these are all fairly young men who don't see a lot of gray at this stage of their lives.  Like other entertainers, it sometimes helps to turn down the volume a little while they are on their soapbox.

As Noe would say: Eggszactly!! (or however the hell he spells it)

It is all fine and good that these guys have Christian values.  There are certainly worse things they could be.  But I do grow tired of hearing about it.  Maybe it's just me.

You grow tired of it, others take heart. Different strokes.

[pravata]

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I don't have a problem with someone having faith and extolling that faith.  My problem is when God is credited for helping with a win, or a hit/putt/touchdown/goal etc. etc.  The intention behind that kind of statement is almost certainly innocent, but the inference is that the victorious won because they were more worthy in God's eyes than their opponent.  This is the height of arrogance, IMHO, and belittles both the sporting competition and God him/her/their self.

Bottom line:

God helped me get through the tough times and training and traveling and hard slog of the season...Ding!

God was on our side tonight...Bzzzzzzzzt!

Just once I'd like to see a ballplayer come out and say, "I just want to thank my lord and savior Satan." That would be pretty funny. People would flip. Could he backtrack out of it and say he was just kidding to get a rise, or would he be doomed?

"To see someone with that kind of personality (Jeff Kent) is entertaining," Bagwell said. "It shows you the different type of people who can come together for the same thing ? which is to win baseball games."
The Link

Jeff Kent isn't Satan.  But if Jeff Kent was around, Satan should keep his head on a swivel.

[MusicMan]

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I wonder how Hunter Pence is going to fit on this team.  He wouldn't appear to be part of the same mold.

And some learn the hard way.  The Link

If only there were a player he could talk to - not some srub, but a HOF-level player - about learning lessons from a DUI in your youth.

[Limey]

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Who cares if he mentions God in his interviews?  If he is a religious man, good for him.. if not, ok then.

It's not about anyone's faith, or even talking about it in public (or private).  It's about certain people of faith who claim that they believe that God was "on their side".  This presumes that those on the other side are not pious enough to be worthy God's help, which is the height of arrogance, IMHO.  And last time I looked, arrogance (or a synonym thereof) is one of the deadly sins...

[Ty in Tampa]

Why this thread hasn't been blasted into the ether is beyond me.

[WulawHorn]

Like I said- and maybe didn't convey accurately enough, I have no problem with Luke's interview. I share his faith.  I have no problem with him talking about it.

I even said he did it in the right way, talking about how it helps systematically with his values and the like. This is, imho, the proper role of speaking about faith in a daily venture. I try to put my faith in God and his promises to take care of me every day into my life at work.

I agree completely with limey- I hate it when players talk about how god wanted them to win.  I've never thought- Oh- I got this particular deal over a competitor b/c God likes me more than them, and I deserve it. It irks me a bit when ballplayers do this.  Luke wasn't doing that and seems to have his faith in a proper perspective.  He just talks about it alot- at every interview opportunity seemingly. I have no problem with that, as long as he doesn't go out and say that God made him hit that HR b/c the inference is he loves Luke Scott more then the pitcher.

Berkman had a great thought on this when he was in studio on 610 this winter.  He talked about how he was all ready to credit God for the HR and getting the stros to the WS, until Pujols bomb ended the game.  Pujols then gave all the credit to God (presumable God likes him more than lidge?)  

Anyway, Berkman said that it reinforced to him that God is bigger than Lance, and doesn't need Lance to further his agenda.  It sounded like Lance had a good head on his shoulder about things, and it sounded like Lance learned something from it.

That is all.

[Holly]

I'm guessing either it's naptime at the retirement center or else we're just being watched, carefully.

[Limey]

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Like I said- and maybe didn't convey accurately enough, I have no problem with Luke's interview. I share his faith.  I have no problem with him talking about it.

I even said he did it in the right way, talking about how it helps systematically with his values and the like. This is, imho, the proper role of speaking about faith in a daily venture. I try to put my faith in God and his promises to take care of me every day into my life at work.

I agree completely with limey- I hate it when players talk about how god wanted them to win.  I've never thought- Oh- I got this particular deal over a competitor b/c God likes me more than them, and I deserve it. It irks me a bit when ballplayers do this.  Luke wasn't doing that and seems to have his faith in a proper perspective.  He just talks about it alot- at every interview opportunity seemingly. I have no problem with that, as long as he doesn't go out and say that God made him hit that HR b/c the inference is he loves Luke Scott more then the pitcher.

Berkman had a great thought on this when he was in studio on 610 this winter.  He talked about how he was all ready to credit God for the HR and getting the stros to the WS, until Pujols bomb ended the game.  Pujols then gave all the credit to God (presumable God likes him more than lidge?)  

Anyway, Berkman said that it reinforced to him that God is bigger than Lance, and doesn't need Lance to further his agenda.  It sounded like Lance had a good head on his shoulder about things, and it sounded like Lance learned something from it.

That is all.

Exactly.  Anyone can talk about whatever they want (I tend to ramble on about beer and soccer a lot, which I'm sure irritates many).  But there needs to be some perspective, such as Luke and Lance display, instead of the illogical blathering that people get away with because it's about God.

Even giving thanks for a homer or scoring a run doesn't bother me, as giving thanks is a common component of many religions, such as saying grace and giving thanks for being able to put food on your family.  Although I admit that I think pointing to the heavens after reaching 1B on an infield bleeder is a little silly...

[pravata]

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Why this thread hasn't been blasted into the ether is beyond me.

Possibly Spack is testing just how far this topic can go without somebody acting like an idiot.  Relegion is central to what keeps these guys together.  Like cocaine was for the 1979 Pirates.

[Bench]

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Who cares if he mentions God in his interviews?  If he is a religious man, good for him.. if not, ok then.

It's not about anyone's faith, or even talking about it in public (or private).  It's about certain people of faith who claim that they believe that God was "on their side".  This presumes that those on the other side are not pious enough to be worthy God's help, which is the height of arrogance, IMHO.  And last time I looked, arrogance (or a synonym thereof) is one of the deadly sins...

I agree with that, but where people publically invoking their religion really bothers me is when politicians do it. Political figures in this country should operate in a religious vaccuum, but instead they have to publically make a demonstration of their faith in order to be taken seriously. That always sticks in my craw.

[Limey]

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I agree with that, but where people publically invoking their religion really bothers me is when politicians do it. Political figures in this country should operate in a religious vaccuum, but instead they have to publically make a demonstration of their faith in order to be taken seriously. That always sticks in my craw.

I think that espousing one's religious beliefs in politics is a form of disclosure to the voters, and that's a good thing.  Using it to claim a moral high ground over an opponent, is the same type of arrogance discussed above.

Using your own personal religious beliefs to, for example, veto legislation that could lead to cures for many terrible diseases and which is supported by the majority of the population, the majority of the House and the majority of the Senate, is religious dictatorship.

I've now started my stopwatch...

[austro]

NOW I sense a few stirrings in Spack's corner...

[mihoba]

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But I do grow tired of hearing about it.  Maybe it's just me.

No, I assure you it's not.

[Spack McGrimm]

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Why this thread hasn't been blasted into the ether is beyond me.

Possibly Spack is testing just how far this topic can go without somebody acting like an idiot.  Relegion is central to what keeps these guys together.  Like cocaine was for the 1979 Pirates.

Smart man.  But I hate politicians!  All of them.