winter meetings news?

[JimR]

c'mon somebody--do something!

[jaklewein]

Do they start today?  I thought they started tomorrow.

[JimR]

i think they are arriving today.

[drew corleone]

Maybe Purp can get the entire Colorado contingent drunk at the meet n' greet tonight, and convince them to give up Jennings for Moberg and Taylor B.

[jaklewein]

Report:  Astros interested in Twins RP Juan Rincon.  I wonder...if true, would this deal be to add depth to bullpen, or to allow for the potential trading of one of our current bullpen members?

I noticed that they might have a need at 3B with last year's starter slugging under .400.  Maybe Ensberg would be enough to land this guy.


The Link

[Bench]

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Report:  Astros interested in Twins RP Juan Rincon.  I wonder...if true, would this deal be to add depth to bullpen, or to allow for the potential trading of one of our current bullpen members?

I noticed that they might have a need at 3B with last year's starter slugging under .400.  Maybe Ensberg would be enough to land this guy.

Hopefully they'll throw in a  pharmacist to be named later.

[Uncle Charlie]

That suspension shouldn't be under-estimated when determining trade value.  2nd suspension is 50 games right?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I think I took a drink from Todd The Bod's glass because I had a crazy thought.  

If Minnesota operates under a restricted budget, compete in a division that has sent the last 2 AL teams in the world series, has 1 great starter, 1 injured but great when healthy starter, one of the best center fielders in the game, and 2 young stars (Morneau and Mauer).  What are the chances they trade Santana or Hunter for young pitching/fielding?  

Would anyone be surprised in Minnesota blew it up and started over using Hunter and Santana to accelerate the rebuilding process.  A trade for either of those players would dessimate a team's farm system but it might be viewed as worthwhile if that team were trying to win now instead of 3-5 yrs from now.  Okay, I'm stepping away from the keyboard now.

[Bench]

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That suspension shouldn't be under-estimated when determining trade value.  2nd suspension is 50 games right?

I think the suspension for a first violation is 50 games, second time gets you 100 games, and the third results in being banned from baseball.

[NeilT]

Teams don't pay salary during the suspension, right?

Bench, are you practicing in Beaumont?

[Uncle Charlie]

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That suspension shouldn't be under-estimated when determining trade value.  2nd suspension is 50 games right?

I think the suspension for a first violation is 50 games, second time gets you 100 games, and the third results in being banned from baseball.

You're right.  I was thinking of the initial policy from 2005.

It's also my understanding, through a quick google search, that the player does not get paid.

[Bench]

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Teams don't pay salary during the suspension, right?

Bench, are you practicing in Beaumont?

I suppose they don't.

I've sent you a PM.

[pravata]

Ringolsby rumor, "Cleveland would deal starter Jake Westbrook for closer Brad Lidge, but the Astros say they won't trade Lidge."  Link

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Ringolsby rumor, "Cleveland would deal starter Jake Westbrook for closer Brad Lidge, but the Astros say they won't trade Lidge."  Link

Okay, I'm no expert nor have I seen Westbrook actually pitch (so I'm committing the cardinal sin and evaluating him strictly on stats).  He seems like a solid innings eater, generates alot of ground balls (2.77 g/f ratio for his career), and gave up 15 hrs and 55 walks in 211 innings (Roy gave up 18 and 38 in comparison).  While I realize Lidge can be one of the few dominant closers in the game, when his mechanics aren't screwy, but isn't that deal almost a no brainer, assuming you can retain Westbrook for a few years?

[jaklewein]

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Ringolsby rumor, "Cleveland would deal starter Jake Westbrook for closer Brad Lidge, but the Astros say they won't trade Lidge."  Link

Okay, I'm no expert nor have I seen Westbrook actually pitch (so I'm committing the cardinal sin and evaluating him strictly on stats).  He seems like a solid innings eater, generates alot of ground balls (2.77 g/f ratio for his career), and gave up 15 hrs and 55 walks in 211 innings (Roy gave up 18 and 38 in comparison).  While I realize Lidge can be one of the few dominant closers in the game, when his mechanics aren't screwy, but isn't that deal almost a no brainer, assuming you can retain Westbrook for a few years?

Well, it looks as though he might be very close to the end in terms of club control.  The other negative is is low K/IP, not sure if that's a deterrent or not for Stros management.

[Froback]

Well two major issues stand out with Westbrook.

1) He reaches FA 1 year prior to Lidge
2) His Hits/IP have been going in the wrong direction at a rapid rate the last couple of years.

No thanks!

[Arky Vaughan]

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i think they are arriving today.

AM 610 quoted Purpura Monday morning saying that they're very interested in obtaining another starting pitcher and, while they'd like to have Pettitte back, they "can't pencil him in" and "can't wait on him forever." Not much news there, I guess, but it sounds like they're going to be aggressive on that front. McLane will be on the radio Tuesday morning.

[Burzmali]

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Well two major issues stand out with Westbrook.

1) He reaches FA 1 year prior to Lidge
2) His Hits/IP have been going in the wrong direction at a rapid rate the last couple of years.

No thanks!

If you believe in the whole DIPS argument, pitchers don't really have much control over hits allowed. The main things to look at are strikeouts, walks, home runs allowed, and extra base hits allowed.

That said, I think Westbrook would be a solid starter. Doesn't strike out too many guys, but he also doesn't walk too many, and doens't give up homers. Factor in the move from the AL to the NL, and I think he would be a solid acquisition. If Pettitte and Clemens come back, the rotation would be stacked. If they don't, Westbrook provides a proven arm.

[Arky Vaughan]

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If you believe in the whole DIPS argument, pitchers don't really have much control over hits allowed. The main things to look at are strikeouts, walks, home runs allowed, and extra base hits allowed.

This is an overstatement. The argument is that pitchers don't have much control over the number of balls in play that are turned into outs.

[Burzmali]

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If you believe in the whole DIPS argument, pitchers don't really have much control over hits allowed. The main things to look at are strikeouts, walks, home runs allowed, and extra base hits allowed.

This is an overstatement. The argument is that pitchers don't have much control over the number of balls in play that are turned into outs.

Fair enough. Would you make the trade?

[hostros7]

Padilla has been inked by the Rangeers

 3 yr / $34 mm

Yeah, um, Schmidt probably won't be signing for 3 / $45 MM as previously speculated by some in here.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Fair enough. Would you make the trade?

I don't have the information or expertise to judge where Lidge and Westbrook are right now in terms of physical and mental make-up, trade value, contract demands, etc. Based merely on the statistics, I note the following:

1. Westbrook is an innings-eater. He's posted three straight seasons of 200+ innings.

2. He's a good-sized guy at 6'3" and 200 pounds, and, at 29, hasn't had any pitching-related injuries since 2002.

3. Those three seasons, his ERAs have stayed under 4.50 in the DH league pitching for a team in a hitter's park.

4. His strikeouts per inning are toward the bottom of pitchers throwing that many innings. His component ERAs have been OK.

5. He appears to be a very good No. 4, not a bad No. 3.

What that means in terms of what the Astros are looking to get for Lidge, I'm not sure. It could also be that Purpura has his sights set on something else at the Winter Meetings.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Latest from ESPN's Winter Meeting coverage:  

"The Astros remain interested in Aubrey Huff. But he appears to be a player who could be indirectly affected by Andy Pettitte. If Pettitte signs for large dollars, the Astros would have to move a salary to sign someone like Huff. The Dodgers are also believed to have interest in Huff as an outfielder if they don't sign Luis Gonzalez."

 Meetings coverage

Not that this update is surprising but I sure hope Andy makes up his damn mind soon.

[BUWebguy]

On Baseball Prospectus, Will Carroll reports:

 

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It seems that Pettitte's decision is between the Yankees and retirement, not another team, with much of the talk focused on the reasons why Pettitte left New York in the first place.

I e-mailed him and asked, "Are you saying Houston is out of the running?" He responded, "Yes."

[Froback]

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On Baseball Prospectus, Will Carroll reports:

 

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It seems that Pettitte's decision is between the Yankees and retirement, not another team, with much of the talk focused on the reasons why Pettitte left New York in the first place.

I e-mailed him and asked, "Are you saying Houston is out of the running?" He responded, "Yes."

Didn't we just recently have a long discussion on how BP hates the Astros?  I doubt almost everything that comes from them.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Didn't we just recently have a long discussion on how BP hates the Astros?  I doubt almost everything that comes from them.

I think there's a difference between their analysis and them just making up stuff because they hate the Astros.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Quote:
On Baseball Prospectus, Will Carroll reports:

 

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It seems that Pettitte's decision is between the Yankees and retirement, not another team, with much of the talk focused on the reasons why Pettitte left New York in the first place.

I e-mailed him and asked, "Are you saying Houston is out of the running?" He responded, "Yes."

I think we've been thru that "conclusion"  already.

Started last night, built up some steam, and now instead of idle speculation, it's fact.  It might happen, don't get me wrong, but all signs point to it not being a done deal.  And if Pettitte doesn't recognize that he barely got thru 6 innings a start, on average, in the NL and it's only going to get tougher in the AL, well, that's on him.  I'd love to see him back in Houston but I won't be pissed.  Dissappointed I think sums it up.

[BUWebguy]

Yeah, I've followed all that. The BP rumor/speculation struck me as different -- not saying the Yankees had him locked up, but saying that Pettitte wasn't even considering the Astros anymore, that it was NY or retirement.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:
On Baseball Prospectus, Will Carroll reports:

 

Quote:
It seems that Pettitte's decision is between the Yankees and retirement, not another team, with much of the talk focused on the reasons why Pettitte left New York in the first place.

I e-mailed him and asked, "Are you saying Houston is out of the running?" He responded, "Yes."

I think we've been thru that "conclusion"  already.

Started last night, built up some steam, and now instead of idle speculation, it's fact.  It might happen, don't get me wrong, but all signs point to it not being a done deal.  And if Pettitte doesn't recognize that he barely got thru 6 innings a start, on average, in the NL and it's only going to get tougher in the AL, well, that's on him.  I'd love to see him back in Houston but I won't be pissed.  Dissappointed I think sums it up.

As long as it's not the Cardinals. (And also the Astros pick up another 2.  And Clemens comes back at the Break.  And Chris Sampson is lights out in the 5th and 6th. And Brad Lidge returns to form.  THEN I'll be happy.) Haven't we concluded in the past that Will Carroll is entirely made of phlegm?  Was he drinking next to Tom Verducci?

[WulawHorn]

I've said it befofe and I'll say it again:  If either of the rackitte boys go back to pitching in the AL East they are FOOLS.  I don't think either of them are fools.  Their days of pitching in that league and that division successfully are a memory.  They'll get bludgeoned (comparitively speaking). It makes no sense whatsover for either of them to pitch anywhere other than H-town.

[JimR]

he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

[pravata]

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he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

So, the mystery is solved.  These stories do come from "Somewhere", Randy and Alan Hendricks' colon.

[Arky Vaughan]

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he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

Just to make the Wallet open a little further.

[No? in Austin]

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he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

Just to make the Wallet open a little further.

Don't the media guys know that they work for the players agents during the winter meetings?  Is this shocking news to them that they provide a valuable (and gullible) service to super agents like Boras and the Racket Bros?

[MusicMan]

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he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

So, how does Randy's quote look in that context?

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"But as you know, a lot of times there are rumors that fuel stories that fuel more stories."

[Froback]

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he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

That actually isn't too surprising.  I often think that these "sources" have to be agents or people associated with the agent, because what team would like to have their offers broadcasted to the media... it kindof is counter productive until after the deal is made or lost.

But it does work wonders for the Agent's comission total.

[No? in Austin]

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he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

That actually isn't too surprising.  I often think that these "sources" have to be agents or people associated with the agent, because what team would like to have their offers broadcasted to the media... it kindof is counter productive until after the deal is made or lost.

But it does work wonders for the Agent's comission total.

Shoot!  No one does this better than Scott Boras.  He can have media guys reporting that Team X is offering $$$ for the  sake of Team Y to read.  No one checks with Team X, they just report it.

And then Team Y ups their offer.

And then later, when the player signs for more money, reporters get word from Team X that they weren't even aware  that the player existed much less that they were bidding for his services.

(see: Brown, Kevin... the first 100 million dollar man in the MLB)

[pravata]

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he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

Just to make the Wallet open a little further.

Don't the media guys know that they work for the players agents during the winter meetings?  Is this shocking news to them that they provide a valuable (and gullible) service to super agents like Boras and the Racket Bros?

Justice, "Uncle Drayton can refuse to play, but his ballclub is sky-diving toward third place"  Does Richard get a commission or just pom poms and a flouncy skirt?

[DVauthrin]

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he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

Just to make the Wallet open a little further.

Don't the media guys know that they work for the players agents during the winter meetings?  Is this shocking news to them that they provide a valuable (and gullible) service to super agents like Boras and the Racket Bros?

Justice, "Uncle Drayton can refuse to play, but his ballclub is sky-diving toward third place"  Does Richard get a commission or just pom poms and a flouncy skirt?

This is what happens when you get shut out of a clubhouse for spreading false trade rumors and making the team have to defend your idiocy.   All that's left after that is writing with conjecture.

[pravata]

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he is 1000% wrong.

and, at least one good source has told me that the origin of Verducci's story was none other than the Hendricks brothers.

Just to make the Wallet open a little further.

Don't the media guys know that they work for the players agents during the winter meetings?  Is this shocking news to them that they provide a valuable (and gullible) service to super agents like Boras and the Racket Bros?

Justice, "Uncle Drayton can refuse to play, but his ballclub is sky-diving toward third place"  Does Richard get a commission or just pom poms and a flouncy skirt?

This is what happens when you get shut out of a clubhouse for spreading false trade rumors and making the team have to defend your idiocy.   All that's left after that is writing with conjecture.

I have it on good authority, (his own) that he cracks wise with Brad Ausmus, lounges in Phil Garner's office sharing menudo brought in by Jose de JO, and takes late night calls from Uncle Drayton himself. Oh, he's well connected, says he, possibly to Polly Prissy Pants.

[CarolinaStro]

Braves deal LaRoche for bully help:

The Pirates have agreed to surrender Mike Gonzalez for Adam LaRoche, but a trade is on hold because the Braves aren't sure Gonzalez is healthy.

No serious damage was detected in Gonzalez's elbow after he was placed on the DL in late August, but that he never returned to pitch apparently has raised some red flags with the Braves. Perhaps something will get done if the Braves get a look at his medical records. Should a trade take place, the Braves would use Gonzalez to set up Bob Wickman and the Pirates would insert Salomon Torres into the closer's role.
Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

[CarolinaStro]

More Bravo news...Horacio Rameriz for Rafael Soriano

 link

[jaklewein]

Quote:
More Bravo news...Horacio Rameriz for Rafael Soriano

 link  

I would guess the Braves must be pleased as punch about this deal.  I haven't really seen Soriano pitch, but all reports I've read say he's solid.  I have seen Rameriz pitch plenty and he's rather average...plus, I've heard on more than one occasion that he's a bad apple.