Astros sign Lee

[Savage]

6 years, $100mm according to ESPN   link

[Alkie]

Alright, I hope all you "offense first!" people are happy.

6 years and $100m for Carlos Lee is absolutely insane.  IN sane.  

Great.  Now we're a team that will lose 8-6 instead of 8-4.  

Now that you all got your wish.....who the fuck is going to pitch for us?

[Burzmali]

Quote:
Alright, I hope all you "offense first!" people are happy.

6 years and $100m for Carlos Lee is absolutely insane.  IN sane.  

Great.  Now we're a team that will lose 8-6 instead of 8-4.  

Now that you all got your wish.....who the fuck is going to pitch for us?

Adding Lee makes resigning Pettitte and Clemens easier, imo.

[Alkie]

Explain how.

[johnstros]

anyone know of a site to find contracts for the astros?

[Alkie]

And more to the point, what is our 07 payroll right now?

[Greg D]

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anyone know of a site to find contracts for the astros?

The Link

[Burzmali]

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Explain how.

At this point in their careers, it seems like the primary motivation for coming back to play would be winning a championship. Signing a good hitter like Lee will probably improve the Astros' ability to provide run support to the pitchers. Especially in Clemens case, the team has struggled (or it has appeared that way) to score runs when he is on the mound. With an improved offense, Pettitte and Clemens might consider the Astros in a better position to reach the postseason.

[Alkie]

If Clemens cared about "winning" instead of "money" he'd have signed with the Yanks or RedSox this June.  

It's never about playing for a winner.  It's about money.  Sometimes its about your wife not leaving you.

[Russ99]

I'm thrilled the Astros got Lee. Sure the price is steep, but they cleared Bagwell's contract so it's sort of a wash.

Here's a link for Astros payroll - they say just over 100M for last year, I;m not sure who's still on the roster so do the math.

Linky

[Savage]

I'm very torn about this.  On the one hand, this is an absolutely ridiculous amount of money for how valuabe Lee is.  On the other hand, it's in-line with the market, the Astros clearly need another impact bat, and I don't see how they get one without paying a high price (through ridiculous salary and/or loss of prospects via trade).  Fucking Tribune.

[Alkie]

It's only a wash IF we replace Pettitte and Clemens.

This team, right now, ain't going to the playoffs.

FACT.

[Russ99]

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Fucking Tribune.

Amen, brother. But we can all laugh when the scrubs fall flat on their face next season.

[johnstros]

14.5 for berkman, if lee is getting 90 per year, that is not right. if espn says 100 million, that is unbelievable.

[Russ99]

Is it set in stone that Clemens and/or Pettite won't be back?? Remember, the new labor contract eliminates those Dec/Jan/May 1st  arb/contract deadlines.

I wouldn't mind singings of  Pettite, Peavy and Williams for next year. I guess we'll see. If Drayton spent that kind of cash on Lee, I can't see the Astros not shoring up the pitching staff. It's early.

[Alkie]

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But we can all laugh when the scrubs fall flat on their face next season.

Dude.  You realize we're WORSE than the Cubs right now, right?  We both have one established top-of-the-rotation starter, a bunch of kids, and some good bats.  

Only, the Cubs have a BETTER lineup.

I wouldn't knock the Cubs just yet.  

I'll believe Pettitte-and-Clemens when the contracts have been signed.

[Russ99]

No biggie. The Cubs have the same problems as the Astros. They have Zambrano, an chronically injured Prior, sophomore Rich Hill and kids/scrubs on the mound. They just vastly overpayed for a career year from a utilty infielder and for a all-star slugger who wants to bat leadoff and has rarely played CF.

Don't believe the hype. If the Astros can get a few of their own or other pitchers signed, and figure out what to do with the 3B situation, there's a great chance that they'll be better the Cubs.

Granted the Cubs have a slightly better bullpen, but that's quibbling. Games are won and lost starting in the spring, not in November.

[Burzmali]

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If Clemens cared about "winning" instead of "money" he'd have signed with the Yanks or RedSox this June.  

It's never about playing for a winner.  It's about money.  Sometimes its about your wife not leaving you.

I don't think he cares about winning *instead* of money, just that I doubt he comes back if he doesn't think the Astros can make the playoffs.

[homer]

chronicle says 6 at 90 mill.

[johnstros]

we'll all know the magic number at 3:00.  press conference...

[homer]

4cst

i think its gonna be 6 at 85.

[CarolinaStro]

Quote:
Alright, I hope all you "offense first!" people are happy.

6 years and $100m for Carlos Lee is absolutely insane.  IN sane.  

Great.  Now we're a team that will lose 8-6 instead of 8-4.  

Now that you all got your wish.....who the fuck is going to pitch for us?

What a weird feeling this one is.  From a baseball perspective, this was a must have because option B just wasn't there.  Any trade for a major RBI guy would have raped our bullpen or future rotation.  Economically, this one is scary but only if the Grocer makes it so.  Maybe this market correction bullshit is true.

[HPFRic]

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Dude.  You realize we're WORSE than the Cubs right now, right?  We both have one established top-of-the-rotation starter, a bunch of kids, and some good bats.

hey, alkie, here's an actual FACT - making declarative statements about the upcoming baseball season in november is asinine. the offseason's not even a month old yet. good god.

lee's a terrific hitter.

[CarolinaStro]

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It's only a wash IF we replace Pettitte and Clemens.

This team, right now, ain't going to the playoffs.

FACT.

One would have to believe this deal is part of AP and maybe Roger being Stros in 07.  If AP ends up retired or in the NE, then this deal is organizational suicide.

[ValpoCory]

Is Carlos Lee the first offensive free agent to sign a contract with the Astros for more than 2 gauranteed years, i.e. longer than Jeff Kent's contract?

[Michael N]

While I agree that it's way too early to bemoan our chances, this signing could be problematic.

Carlos Lee is a damn fine hitter. The problem is that there are two parts to the game in the National League and that other part, which involves a glove, is not such a special part of Mr. Lee's game. Houston also just tied up a crap-load of money in this guy, money that might have been used to shore up the rotation.

[CarolinaStro]

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Houston also just tied up a crap-load of money in this guy, money that might have been used to shore up the rotation.

I don't see it as a either/or situation.  The Lee domino had to fall first.  I would expect to see AP and either Williams or Kip Wells to be Stros by Xmas (with Clemens to be like this year).  The Grocer has made the decision to sustain a higher payroll otherwise the Lee signing by itself is fruitless.  With RoyO and Lance in their primes and AP/RC still strong, they are taking their chances while the window is still open.

[homer]

6 year 100 mill. no trade for first 4 years, and last two years the team and carlos will decide on possible teams to trade to.

[juliogotay]

I'm glad he did not get a complete "no trade".

[Michael N]

You're right. It's not an either/or situation and I should have said that money could be used in other ways, not limited to the rotation.

I don't understand the Carlos Lee Domino Theory. While it's admittedly easier to throw money at FAs than it is to swing player trades, it's still possible to do the latter. At any rate, Purp and Uncle Drayton have begun the renovation with a seriously major purchase and I hope the budget can handle the inevitable unknowns and cost over-runs that come with such undertakings.

[Savage]

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While it's admittedly easier to throw money at FAs than it is to swing player trades, it's still possible to do the latter.  

But the trade market is not immune to the price increases of the FA market.  I don't love the amount of money being spent here, but I struggle to see a really viable alternative.  Given that there's not much left in the FA market, the prices for available bats from trades are going to go up as well.  And for players that aren't necessarily a better fit (see Ramirez, Manny).

[ASTROCREEP]

Pettitte comes back, they sign Woody. Hopefully add a bullpen arm.

What's the problem? If this signing is the only thing they do AND no Pettitte, Clemens or Woody, then problem.


I just found out about Woody. Pettitte's got to come back.

[Michael N]

Are you really suggesting that the Astros had no other viable alternative than signing Carlos Lee?

[CarolinaStro]

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You're right. It's not an either/or situation and I should have said that money could be used in other ways, not limited to the rotation.

I don't understand the Carlos Lee Domino Theory. While it's admittedly easier to throw money at FAs than it is to swing player trades, it's still possible to do the latter. At any rate, Purp and Uncle Drayton have begun the renovation with a seriously major purchase and I hope the budget can handle the inevitable unknowns and cost over-runs that come with such undertakings.

I just meant that I believe that the resolution of the offensive shortcomings of the club are directly linked to the future liklihood of the AP/RC signings.  I also thought that the shortcoming would be resolved via trade before the FA period began.  However, it appears that the trade market was equally unreal (in terms of player cost) to the FA market.

[Michael N]

Gotcha.

I'm not sure the trade market has become as bullish as the FA market but at least I now understand where you were coming from.

Thanks.

[Savage]

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Are you really suggesting that the Astros had no other viable alternative than signing Carlos Lee?

No - there always other options.  I just think there weren't a lot given the craziness of the FA market and that the trade market doesn't have any magic solutions either.  And so while i think the amount of money relative to where we've signed people in the past is crazy, i also think that the astros had a clear hole to be filled and that there weren't any obvious "cheap" ways to fill that need.