Author Topic: Oswalt Money For Lee? (Read 3735 times)

Alkie · « **on:** November 23, 2006, 10:43:13 am »

Chronicle reporting 5 years for $73m the new offer to Lee.

No thanks.

Even if he did go for it (why would he??), we're talking about a player that almost no one cared about until the trade deadline this year.

It's just Carlos Lee. We're not talking about a legit superstar here.

ETA: Take a look at his stats. He's Jeff Kent at the plate. I'm certainly not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying you wouldn't give Jeff Kent $15m per season at any point in his career.

jaklewein · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2006, 10:53:37 am »

Quote:

Chronicle reporting 5 years for $73m the new offer to Lee.

No thanks.

Even if he did go for it (why would he??), we're talking about a player that almost no one cared about until the trade deadline this year.

It's just Carlos Lee. We're not talking about a legit superstar here.

I couldn't agree with you more. Give me Huff, give me Woody...then let's talk trade and hope that Pettitte decides to return.

Fredia · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2006, 11:08:45 am »

this kinda reminds me of all the crazes that have happened over the years. take when the cabbage patch dolls first came out .. people where lining up and fighting tooth and nail to buy them and we wont even mention the furby innocedent. they where just normal average dolls and toys.. nothing magic.. but at the time it is what everyone had to have.. but anyhow it seems like if you are not in line to throw away cash on any one who sorta has a name you are not doing all you can to field a team. maybe sanity will prevail and go the way of the cabbage patch dolls \ like i saw the other day at walmart at greatly reduced prices.

JimR · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2006, 12:06:29 pm »

i have no opinion on the terms. that is the Tribune's "play with someone else's money" strategy causing the craziness.

i disagree with "it's just Carlos Lee." IF he is in shape, his bat will help immensely.

I'm Richies Dad · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2006, 12:11:32 am »

That's a BIG if, sorry I couldn't resist.

Michael N · « **Reply #7 on:** November 24, 2006, 12:44:08 am »

Not just "no thanks". If Purpura actually inks Carlos Lee at those terms, he's out of his fucking mind. This FA market is out of control and there's no reason for Houston to get sucked into the frenzy.

It seems far more prudent at this point to identify and work hard a trade or two to upgrade the OF and, perhaps, bring in another starter.

Michael N · « **Reply #9 on:** November 24, 2006, 01:52:31 am »

The economically savvy Drayton McLane established what he thinks two of the very best players at their respective positions in all of MLB are worth within the last 20 months. Lance Berkman was given $85 million over 6 years and Roy Oswalt was given $73 million over 5 years. The latter contract, which is less than three months old, mirrors what is reported in the Chron as being the latest offer to Lee. Does anyone honestly believe Carlos Lee has the same worth to the Astros in any measure as Roy Oswalt?

Suggesting we don't have a crystal ball as to the future of the FA market is silly. Of course we don't know for sure what will happen tomorrow much less two years from now. What we do know, though, is by any objective standard Carlos Lee is not as valuable a performer as Roy Oswalt or Lance Berkman. Paying established, lesser players as much or more money than other established players flat-out does not make sense.

Finally, falling prey to the winds of the FA market is what teams led by the likes of Peter Angelos do and is uncharacteristic of Drayton McLane. While I may have my odd beefs with what he does, there's no questioning McLane has been a fine steward of this franchise.

Alkie · « **Reply #12 on:** November 24, 2006, 04:13:44 pm »

While I agree with you entirely, I don't think it's McLane's understanding that is the problem. The problem is: who the hell are we going to get to pitch?

Schmidt? Zito? Andyroger?

Alkie · « **Reply #14 on:** November 24, 2006, 04:17:59 pm »

Oh sure, sameysamey. My point is: fine, we got Lee. Everyone got their wish. NOW what?

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #15 on:** November 24, 2006, 04:20:43 pm »

They've got position players firm at five places:

C Ausmus
1B Berkman
2B Biggio
3B
SS Everett
LF Lee
CF
RF

So figure out who they've got to play those three open positions. Seems like the only question there is whether they pass on Huff now that they've spend a bundle on Lee.

Purpura turns to pitching next whicn, per usual, is partially dependent on drama. Purpura went ahead and solved the part of the equation that he knew wasn't dependent on Pettitte and Clemens, i.e., the offense.

Michael N · « **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2006, 05:32:04 pm »

"How do you know what's an apples to apples comparison?"

Excuse me but just how do you think "value" is determined if not primarily by comparison with other members of the same profession? There's no real difference with any other commodity.

"How do you know that the market hasn't permanently inflated since the Oswalt signing and that this inflation is not out of whack, but instead representative of the future? If baseline FA salaries have permanently increased, say, 15% in the last 4 months, then your argument becomes less strong."

What has happened economically in the last 3 months to justify a 15% increase in player values?

I've made my opinion pretty clear. Based on current roster player salaries and the performance of those players, the contract for Carlos Lee is out of whack.

"All I'm saying is that you're assuming too much. At the very least, McLane is offering Lee an amount of money that is disproportionately close to Oswalt and Berkman."

Close to Oswalt and Berkman? He's now signed Lee to a contract that has GREATER value.

Zan, you are correct that I am making assumptions. However, I've made them based on verifiable data. Trust me, though. I hope like hell I'm wrong about Carlos Lee. I'd like nothing more than to be pilloried here after he wins 2 or 3 NL MVP awards and the Astros romp to a couple of championships. My gut tells me it isn't going to happen and we're more likely to rue the day Houston is paying Carlos Lee $15+ million a year 3 years from now.

Michael N · « **Reply #19 on:** November 25, 2006, 01:17:47 am »

Current market conditions indicate that if you are lucky enough to get a new PS3 at retail you can sell the thing for triple what you paid for it on EBay. Some may say cost x 3 is a good Christmas buy. I wouldn't. Just because it is the going rate does not make it a "good buy".

Also, since when does an opinion need to be positively verifiable? It's an opinion, fercryinoutloud. In this case, my opinion is based on verifiable history of Astro contracts, Astro payroll and Drayton McLane's ownership of the franchise. Does this make it fact? Of course not.

Yes, some GMs and owners may have different views of how to run ball clubs than I. Some are very good at their jobs, others are not. Some manage payrolls and personnel very well, others do not. C'est la vie. My fear, though, is that in this case Purpura and McLane, who have been excellent stewards of the franchise, are venturing into the dark side and as a fan I'm more than a little freaked out by it.

So, in answer to your question, yes, I think Purp and McLane are out of their fucking minds with this deal. I hope like hell I am wrong and you and the rest of OWA beat me bloody over the years if Lee proves worthy of the deal. It will also give me no pleasure if my assessment proves correct over time.

I now have a question for you. Since when does anyone in the TZ need to exercise humility?

Unless he/she is a newbie, of course...

Author Topic: Oswalt Money For Lee? (Read 3735 times)

No? in Austin