I Was Going to go with "No Shit, Sherlock!", but...

[Limey]

...this story actually deserves far more reverence than I am able to convey.  Jeff Bagwell is officially no longer an Astro.

It was Jeff's extraordinary performance in 1994 that literally forced me to pay attention to baseball.  We all became used to his absence in 2006, but the formal tie-cutting today is still a very sad day in the terms of my Astro-fandom.

Raise your glasses for Jeff Bagwell: probably the greatest Astro you've ever seen.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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...this story actually deserves far more reverence than I am able to convey.  Jeff Bagwell is officially no longer an Astro.

It was Jeff's extraordinary performance in 1994 that literally forced me to pay attention to baseball.  We all became used to his absence in 2006, but the formal tie-cutting today is still a very sad day in the terms of my Astro-fandom.

Raise your glasses for Jeff Bagwell: probably the greatest Astro you've ever seen.

Did I mention my second son's name is Robert?  I named my first son Joseph (after Jose Cruz).  Robert was used, in part, because of one Jeffrey Robert Bagwell.  My personal tip of the cap, just don't tell my wife.  She thinks I happen to like the name Robert for it's own sake.  
As for the article, sad but expected news.

[Taras Bulba]

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...this story actually deserves far more reverence than I am able to convey.  Jeff Bagwell is officially no longer an Astro.

It was Jeff's extraordinary performance in 1994 that literally forced me to pay attention to baseball.  We all became used to his absence in 2006, but the formal tie-cutting today is still a very sad day in the terms of my Astro-fandom.

Raise your glasses for Jeff Bagwell: probably the greatest Astro you've ever seen.

There's no "probably"--he was the best.  One helluva player who would have been a credit to any team in any era, but how fortunate for us that he was an Astro.

[CarolinaStro]

Cheers indeed.  Retire #5 on opening day in 07 and leave room for #7 in 08.  I was fan way before these two but they will always define Astro baseball.

[Limey]

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Cheers indeed.  Retire #5 on opening day in 07 and leave room for #7 in 08.  I was fan way before these two but they will always define Astro baseball.

Good news for you, Barca are beating Chelsea in the Champions League.

[CarolinaStro]

ARghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! Drogba scores....Unbelievable.  Barca is in bad shape so far this season.  Are you a Chelsea fan? or maybe United?

[CarolinaStro]

BTW, thanks for jinxing it for me.

[Limey]

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ARghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! Drogba scores....Unbelievable.  Barca is in bad shape so far this season.  Are you a Chelsea fan? or maybe United?

I don't think so.  Chelsea vs. Moan U would be like Yankees - Mets.

[mihoba]

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Cheers indeed.  Retire #5 on opening day in 07 and leave room for #7 in 08.  I was fan way before these two but they will always define Astro baseball.

Ditto.

I have a 10 year old cat named Bags.

[Alkie]

Man.  Remember when we traded Glenn Davis and we pretty much all said, "well, we'll never have a first basemen THAT good again."

[Alkie]

WOW.

In 1988, only one player in the NL had more than 30 HRs (I was looking up Glenn Davis' stats).  Strawberry had 37.

We're not talking ancient history here.  I vividly remember 1988.

Even stranger?  Not one Dominican or Puerto Rican player in the top ten in BA, runs, or HRs in 1988 in the NL.

[Bench]

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WOW.

In 1988, only one player in the NL had more than 30 HRs (I was looking up Glenn Davis' stats).  Strawberry had 37.

We're not talking ancient history here.  I vividly remember 1988.

Even stranger?  Not one Dominican or Puerto Rican player in the top ten in BA, runs, or HRs in 1988 in the NL.

So you're saying that the immigrants are bringing in the steroids? Well I never. I guess we should build that damn wall afterall.

[Trey]

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WOW.

In 1988, only one player in the NL had more than 30 HRs (I was looking up Glenn Davis' stats).  Strawberry had 37.

We're not talking ancient history here.  I vividly remember 1988.

Even stranger?  Not one Dominican or Puerto Rican player in the top ten in BA, runs, or HRs in 1988 in the NL.

Man, I remember reading in SI after 1987 (When Dawson and a rookie McGwire each hit 49) that no one would ever hit 50.  The 49s were a fluke and no one would ever, ever, EVER hit 50, nevermind 60.  Damn, I wish I could find that article.

[EasTexAstro]

Thank you, Mr. Bagwell. Best.Astro.Ever.

[Alkie]

I'm not saying they brought the steroids, I'm saying Sammy Sosa clearly made it ok for teams to play steroid filled islanders.

I looked back year-by-year at homeruns and who was hitting them.  It was Sosa for 3 years as the only Dominican, then Oh Henry for a couple year joining him, then in 1998, flood gates opened and half the HR leaders were juiced islanders.  The other half were juiced mainlanders.

Clearly these folks didn't just discover roids and clearly everyone in baseball wasn't on roids as recently as the 80s.

So, thank you Sammy Sosa, for making the game ridiculous.

Raise the mound!  Get rid of the DH!  Kick out anyone who weighs more than 185 pounds!

[Lefty]

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Even stranger?  Not one Dominican or Puerto Rican player in the top ten in BA, runs, or HRs in 1988 in the NL.

And as a corrollary...there were 10 different african-americans in the top 10 in one or more of those categories.  There were 3 in 2006.

[Alkie]

So, these foreigners are taking our jobs and women AND our blacks?

I say we deport Limey.

[Limey]

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I say we deport Limey.

Bring friends.

[CarolinaStro]

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ARghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! Drogba scores....Unbelievable.  Barca is in bad shape so far this season.  Are you a Chelsea fan? or maybe United?

I don't think so.  Chelsea vs. Moan U would be like Yankees - Mets.

True enough.  Liverpool or Arsenal then?  or are you going to keep me guessing...

[austro]

If I remember correctly, Limey is a Crystal Palace fan.

[pravata]

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...this story actually deserves far more reverence than I am able to convey...

Considering who we're talking about, I don't think anyone could do better than what Purpura said, "We appreciate the way he has played the game."

[tophfar]

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If I remember correctly, Limey is a Crystal Palace fan.

aren't those like white castle burgers?

[tophfar]

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Raise your glasses for Jeff Bagwell: probably the greatest Astro you've ever seen.

His is the only autograph I've ever asked for, on a random chance meeting on day during the 2000 offseason.

[Limey]

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True enough.  Liverpool or Arsenal then?  or are you going to keep me guessing...

Crystal Palace in wonderful South London.

Edit:  Here's some action for ya.

[Fredia]

he is gone . we all knew that from last year, but the thought that there will never be a bidge to bags double play or bagwell bringing biggio home. is truly sad. the man was great played in a lot of pain took a lot of grief and tried his best to get back to the game. what kinda makes it not as sad as it could be at least he had the world series one time before riding off into the sunset

[Billy Zabka]

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Raise the mound!  Get rid of the DH!  Kick out anyone who weighs more than 185 pounds!

Will you make an exception to that rule for fat relief pitchers?

Who doesn't like fat relief pitchers?

[VirtualBob]

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ARghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! Drogba scores....Unbelievable.  Barca is in bad shape so far this season.  Are you a Chelsea fan? or maybe United?

I don't think so.  Chelsea vs. Moan U would be like Yankees - Mets.

Werder will get through, but I'll be cheering for Bayern Wednesday!

[BudGirl]

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True enough.  Liverpool or Arsenal then?  or are you going to keep me guessing...

Crystal Palace in wonderful South London.

Edit:  Here's some action for ya.

You know it is all about Chelsea.

Go Ballack Go.

[austro]

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Go Ballack Go.

I fear that when Ausmus retires BudGirl will abandon us for the team with the Chippendale athlete du jour...

[Limey]

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You know it is all about Chelsea.

Go Ballack Go.

"We're not trying to buy success," says Chelsea's summer signing Ballack, who is now the World's highest paid footballer at Pnds121,000 a week ($12mm a year).

[BudGirl]

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Go Ballack Go.

I fear that when Ausmus retires BudGirl will abandon us for the team with the Chippendale athlete du jour...

Not true.  

Ballack is Ausmus hot.

[BudGirl]

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You know it is all about Chelsea.

Go Ballack Go.

"We're not trying to buy success," says Chelsea's summer signing Ballack, who is now the World's highest paid footballer at Pnds121,000 a week ($12mm a year).

So.

[Ty in Tampa]

After I got Ryan's autograph in '88 when I first got here to Florida, the next one was Bagwell, on his rookie card. Gracious and professional, I will miss his influence on this team I love.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I've been basking in my delusions for so long, possibly in denial. Even with a season of compensation past, the reality is suddenly harsh and unwelcome. So it's true? He's really done? Never to play again? Well, damn the world.

Not to make this an all-time-greatest-best-player-in-the-history-of-the-franchise debate, and God love Biggio, but Bagwell was the best while they were both playing, and Biggio was at his best too.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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I've been basking in my delusions for so long, possibly in denial. Even with a season of compensation past, the reality is suddenly harsh and unwelcome. So it's true? He's really done? Never to play again? Well, damn the world.

Not to make this an all-time-greatest-best-player-in-the-history-of-the-franchise debate, and God love Biggio, but Bagwell was the best while they were both playing, and Biggio was at his best too.

They were both great in different ways.  The only parallel between the two, and therefore fair comparison, is they helped set the standards at their positions for along time.  

Bagwell hit homeruns, sure, but he was a disciplined hitter who ran the bases exceptionally well and provided outstanding defense and awareness that every team had to take notice of when hitting.  Whether it was his ability to defend against the bunt, dig the short hop, or even turn the occasional DP.  Offensively, he wasn't going to be cheated at the plate nor when he was on the basepath.  He wouldn't steal alot of bases but when he did, he was going to do it successfully and he was going to take the extra base (more often than not) because he hustled and you didn't have to doubt that he could go 1st to 3rd when appropriate.  

Biggio, while nowhere near what he used to be, was the perfect player to have in front of Bagwell.  He got on base by sheer grit (in other words, HBP), hit, or walk.  And when he hit, he was no punch and judy hitter, he made solid contact and hustled down the line.  Defensively, he may not have been the best at his positions (Catcher, 2B, or OF) but you could never doubt his work ethic.  And, I would argue he was one of the best 2B's in the league for a fair amount of time, preceding the knee injury.  The end result, after 18 yrs in the league, is a guy passing historic names in categories where a player is lucky to be among the top 25-50 players ever in a single category.  Biggio is finding himself among the best ever in multiple categories.  That's a special career

I'm happy to have had the chance to watch both players play at their peak.  In my opinion both will be the bench mark for future Astros.  As much as I enjoy Berkman's hitting and overall goofy personality, he can't fill either Biggio or Bagwell's shoes.  Not that he should try but you get the idea.  This year is going to be a fun ride, as Biggio marches toward 3000 hits.  I hope the Astros remain competitive but if it turns into another .500 season, instead of clamoring for Biggio to be benched for a younger player who's not half the player Biggio was in his prime, I'll live with that knowing that some sacrifice had to be made to keep Biggio in an Astros uniform for a historic moment.

[The Spleen]

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Go Ballack Go.

I keep thinking there should be an "s" in there somewhere...

[Arky Vaughan]

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Raise your glasses for Jeff Bagwell: probably the greatest Astro you've ever seen.

One word: ballplayer.

[Nate in IA]

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Raise your glasses for Jeff Bagwell: probably the greatest Astro you've ever seen.

Hear, hear!  We all knew this day was coming and it certainly is sad to see it here.  I hope we see him in a coach's role with the Astros soon.

[HurricaneDavid]

So how does this work as far as HOF eligibility?  I'm guessing he can't use 2006 towards the waiting period since he was on the DL... but has there ever even been a HOFer who sat out their entire last year?

[CarolinaStro]

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So how does this work as far as HOF eligibility?  I'm guessing he can't use 2006 towards the waiting period since he was on the DL... but has there ever even been a HOFer who sat out their entire last year?

Actually it is based on the last game you played in, so 2006 does counts towards his wait.  So I guess 2011, we can have a party.

[Limey]

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Actually it is based on the last game you played in, so 2006 does counts towards his wait.  So I guess 2011, we can have a party.

I'm not certain that the toe-rags in the BBWA will vote him in first ballot.  They should, but there's too many fuckwits in there who will discount his numbers because of MMPUS, forgetting that he played the vast majority of his career with the Dome as his home park.  I also have little faith that his "intangibles" will be considered either, such as his prescient baserunning, laser-sharp baseball instincts and superb defense.

The Chronicle published the stats of the HoF first basemen vs. Bagwell.  While there are obviously players with better statistics than Bagwell in that esteemed list, there was not one who could best 2,300 hits and 1,500 runs and 1,500 RBI and 400 homers and 200 stolen bases.  Not one; not even Gehrig.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Actually it is based on the last game you played in, so 2006 does counts towards his wait.  So I guess 2011, we can have a party.

I'm not certain that the toe-rags in the BBWA will vote him in first ballot.  They should, but there's too many fuckwits in there who will discount his numbers because of MMPUS, forgetting that he played the vast majority of his career with the Dome as his home park.  I also have little faith that his "intangibles" will be considered either, such as his prescient baserunning, laser-sharp baseball instincts and superb defense.

The Chronicle published the stats of the HoF first basemen vs. Bagwell.  While there are obviously players with better statistics than Bagwell in that esteemed list, there was not one who could best 2,300 hits and 1,500 runs and 1,500 RBI and 400 homers and 200 stolen bases.  Not one; not even Gehrig.

There is the off-chance that a national sports writer from the north east (in other words, Peter Gammons) will take it upon himself to champion Bagwell's cause.  Who knows.  I'm not going to worry or even think about his HOF odds until 2011.  It's not worth the frustration.  It also wouldn't hurt if the local writers, and I use that term loosely, would actually support his cause when his name shows up on the ballot.  But I don't want to set the bar too high for them.

[Limey]

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There is the off-chance that a national sports writer from the north east (in other words, Peter Gammons) will take it upon himself to champion Bagwell's cause.  Who knows.  I'm not going to worry or even think about his HOF odds until 2011.  It's not worth the frustration.  It also wouldn't hurt if the local writers, and I use that term loosely, would actually support his cause when his name shows up on the ballot.  But I don't want to set the bar too high for them.

Don't bet on it.  A couple of years ago, Gammons was discussing Frank Thomas' HoF chances.  No doubt first-balloter as far as Petey was concerned.  The obvious follow up question, given the spooky similarity between the two players (including birthday), was asked: What about Jeff Bagwell?  Hasn't done enough yet, was Gammons' answer.

Ummm...huh?

[tophfar]

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Don't bet on it.  A couple of years ago, Gammons was discussing Frank Thomas' HoF chances.  No doubt first-balloter as far as Petey was concerned.  The obvious follow up question, given the spooky similarity between the two players (including birthday), was asked: What about Jeff Bagwell?  Hasn't done enough yet, was Gammons' answer.

Ummm...huh?

the worst part of it is, thomas's comeback with the A's this year might actually cement this stupidity in alot of people's minds.

[Limey]

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the worst part of it is, thomas's comeback with the A's this year might actually cement this stupidity in alot of people's minds.

...and also conveniently ignores the fact that Thomas played more than half his games as DH.  Not wanting to poo-poo Thomas, just pointing out that he should be compared to other DHs while Bagwell should be compared to first basemen.

Edit:  Just to take one more lash at that deceased equine: even with his extra, resurgent season, Thomas still cannot trump that combination of stats accumulated by Bagwell.  And he never will (unless he's going to steal 170 bases next season).

[Arky Vaughan]

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The Chronicle published the stats of the HoF first basemen vs. Bagwell.  While there are obviously players with better statistics than Bagwell in that esteemed list, there was not one who could best 2,300 hits and 1,500 runs and 1,500 RBI and 400 homers and 200 stolen bases.  Not one; not even Gehrig.

Most first basemen aren't known for stealing bases.

[Limey]

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Most first basemen aren't known for stealing bases.

Exactly.

See also a historical perspective on how he relates to everyone, not just 1Bers.