Author Topic: The Void  (Read 31088 times)

David in Jackson

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The Void
« on: October 30, 2006, 10:03:04 am »
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WulawHorn

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Re: The Void
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2006, 11:20:05 am »
I'm a longhorn fan and a texan hater, so I've got that going for me- this weekend was especially great as the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched. The Rockets I think will be really good this year- so if you like roundball at all that will be nice (not a big rockets fan but it's a diversion).

The problem with all these other sports, as opposed to baseball is that they are not on every night.  There is something totally and completely comforting, during the regular season, of knowing that there will be an astros game every night for you to watch.  I get depressed during the regular season when the stros have an off day. It gets really bad when they play a getaway day game (that I miss at work) and then have a day off (say a wed and thursday situation).  6 months now without is going to be tough.  Don't get the same juice from a once a week deal like football (which if you are a fan of the college variety is almost over already- shockingly enough).

Limey

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Re: The Void
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2006, 11:24:28 am »
Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.
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jwhudson

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Re: The Void
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2006, 11:25:32 am »
Hot stove and indoor putting

The Link

only 4 months to go - how boooooring.

Duke

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Re: The Void
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2006, 11:33:15 am »
Which we will be reminded of twice a season from now ON.

Limey

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Re: The Void
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2006, 11:35:24 am »
Quote:

Which we will be reminded of twice a season from now ON.



Maybe more.  Matt Leinart is doing pretty well too.
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MikeyBoy

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Re: The Void
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2006, 11:37:55 am »
Quote:

Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.





The Texans' 2006 draft lunacy, as you put it, was debatable prior to yesterday's Titans/Texans game. I'm not sure what Vince's 7/15 for 87 yards exposed, Carr out performed Vince and he (Carr) was benched for the whole second half.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2006, 11:41:53 am »
Quote:

a texan hater




How is anyone a Texan hater?  The franchise is what, five years old, and their biggest win (that I can think of) was beating the Cowboys in their first game.  Being a Texan hater is like being a Devil Ray hater or something.  What's the point?
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Duke

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Re: The Void
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2006, 11:54:26 am »
Outperformed???  The guy that lead his team to a W gets my vote for best performance.  Same thing for Colt v. Harrell Saturday.  Harrell passed for 500 yards but Texas won and Colt was named offensive player of the week.

Limey

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Re: The Void
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2006, 12:00:45 pm »
Quote:

The Texans' 2006 draft lunacy, as you put it, was debatable prior to yesterday's Titans/Texans game. I'm not sure what Vince's 7/15 for 87 yards exposed, Carr out performed Vince and he (Carr) was benched for the whole second half.



The fact that Carr's benching came against Young is just a cruel irony.  The fact remains that Carr isn't going to lead this team anywhere, and yet they passed on two highly rated QBs in the draft (and on a fabulous running back who could take some pressure off Carr).  Now, 7 games in, they bench the guy who was so good that you didn't need Young or Leinart.

Just think about it from a marketing standpoint: if you had to by a kid a Texans' jersey today, who's number would you opt for?
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MusicMan

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Re: The Void
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2006, 12:09:13 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.





Oh, not just the draft.

Vernand Morency, 3rd round pick - 101 yds rushing; traded for
Samkon Gado, UFA - did not play, inactive, coaches' decision.
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WulawHorn

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Re: The Void
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2006, 12:11:19 pm »
Outperformed-

one guy got benched for ineffectiveness and the other guy won the game.  You can talk about stats all you want but

A) Vince won the game

B) David Carr has way more weapons around him then Vince

and

C) The Texans lick balls.

I wanted to be a Texans fan, I really did, but they hired Capers and Casserly (which I was adamantly opposed to) they drafted a nancy boy californian from a piss poor school to be the face of their franchise- they passed on talent to take reaches- they took Dave Ragone in the third round (who I knew sucked b/c I watched him play 15 times in college- he was on every thursday night at louisville) when they could have had all sorts of better QB's (hell Chris Simms was a much better Left handed QB that went in the 3rd round the same year alone).

I had built up a case against them, and then last year they pass up DJ- who is the best college lb I'd seen since Lavar Arrington (unless you want to count the evil Roy Williams as a linebacker- who is the best college Defensive player I've ever seen) to take that fat piece of crap travis johnson who never made a play in his life and has a broken motor- I'd washed my hands of them.

Then, the confluence of events that led Vince to be a state hero and win the rose bowl, a local boy, who would unite the community, who would make the team relevant, who is everything that David Carr is not from a leadership standpoint, and they freaking pick a Defensive End from NC State that at his best will be a Homeless Man's Julius Peppers.

How could you not hate this franchise.

They had a golden opportunity and pissed down their legs.  I hope that they are a wretched failure, that cannot sell out any of their games, that goes 4-12 into perpetuity.  I can't root for enough bad things to happen. I now root against Bob McNair and his stable of horses. I want him to fail in every business endeavor he ever undertakes and end up mumbling to himself (Randolph- or Mortimer) what the hell happened to us as he's broke and destitute in the gutter. Then and only then could I ever consider rooting for that piece of shit, horrific, terrible franchise that mocks the entire city by using the name houston and the entire state by nicknaming themselves the texans (which was a horrifically stupid idea in the first place and my first inclination that this franchise was going to be a disaster.)

That's why I hate the texans.

MikeyBoy

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Re: The Void
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2006, 12:30:25 pm »
So, in short, you would not hate the Texans if they only drafted Longhorns?
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Limey

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Re: The Void
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2006, 12:43:43 pm »
Quote:

Oh, not just the draft.

Vernand Morency, 3rd round pick - 101 yds rushing; traded for
Samkon Gado, UFA - did not play, inactive, coaches' decision.




I don't have too much depth of knowledge of the roster, but (relating this back to baseball) the Astros' drafting philosophy has been to pick the most talented player available when it's their turn to pick.  The Texans have the added option of trading the pick.  They decided to do neither of these and overlook three likely superstars to reach down the draft.  This has been a consistent ploy of the Texans, which is why they have been, and will continue to be, perhaps the crappiest team in the NFL.

The Texans have used their first pick on defense in each of the last 5 drafts (IIRC), and they have perhaps the worst defense in the NFL.  Towards the end of last season, that fabulous stadium was half-empty.  The tickets are sold, but the people aren't showing up to buy beer, dogs, shirts, hats, foam fingers etc. etc. etc.  The exodus will occur earlier this year, if it hasn't started already.

The Texans are a disaster of a ffranchise.
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MRaup

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Re: The Void
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2006, 12:46:31 pm »
Quote:

So, in short, you would not hate the Texans if they only drafted Longhorns?




I think its more along the lines of he wouldn't hate the Texans if they actually made a smart personell descision once in a while.

And trying to say that Carr had a better game than Young is HILARIOUS.

How many turnovers did Vince have?

And in those final stats, lets not forget that he should've had another 30ish yards that the refs and replay somehow managed to completely both the call on.
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tophfar

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Re: The Void
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2006, 12:47:51 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.





vince is hardly tearing the league apart by any measure you wish to choose.  once he can throw the ball past 15 yards that doesnt cause the WR to stop and turn around to catch it, then maybe he might actually be of worth in the NFL.

and besides, considering it was only the fans clamoring for vince, who wasnt going to be drafted by the texans, mario williams or no,  i think this a bit of a reach.
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tophfar

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Re: The Void
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2006, 12:48:50 pm »
Quote:

Outperformed???  The guy that lead his team to a W gets my vote for best performance.  Same thing for Colt v. Harrell Saturday.  Harrell passed for 500 yards but Texas won and Colt was named offensive player of the week.




ok then you are an idiot.
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Limey

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Re: The Void
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 12:50:19 pm »
Quote:

vince is hardly tearing the league apart by any measure you wish to choose.  once he can throw the ball past 15 yards that doesnt cause the WR to stop and turn around to catch it, then maybe he might actually be of worth in the NFL.

and besides, considering it was only the fans clamoring for vince, who wasnt going to be drafted by the texans, mario williams or no,  i think this a bit of a reach.




The Texans passed on Young, AND Matt Leinart AND Reggie Bush.  It's not just Carr vs. Young.
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tophfar

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Re: The Void
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2006, 12:50:31 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

So, in short, you would not hate the Texans if they only drafted Longhorns?




And trying to say that Carr had a better game than Young is HILARIOUS.

How many turnovers did Vince have?





who had the better game, vince or rosenfels?

bunch of damn myopic longhorns who think vince shits gold.  he is shitting, but gold aint whats coming out.
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WulawHorn

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Re: The Void
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2006, 12:51:06 pm »
No- not at all the case.  I would have liked them to go almost any direction but Casserly, Capers and Carr.

DJ was a perfect fit there. If they would have passed on Dat Ngynn or the evil roy williams at a spot that made sense I would have been pissed.

Not picking Vince proved to me that they have no concept of fan replations (not picking the local boy, that is beloved by the entire Longhorn community state wide, and, probably more importantly the African American community in the city of Houston), nor do they have the ability to admit they made a mistake (re- David Carr).  This is collossally stupid. Then, they don't pick Reggie Bush (who I hate btw) compounds the stupidity.  If you wanna go ahead and say that Carr is the guy you have got, got, got to surround him with weapons. Instead, they pick a freaking defensive lineman who ammassed all of his sacks in the ACC against Wake Forest, Duke and the Appalachain school for the deaf and blind. Like I said- I hate Reggie. I never wanted him on any team I root for. I think he's overrated, and a cocky shithead to boot.  That pick, though, would have made sense in the surround Carr with talent idea.

I will say, the best decision the franchise has ever made was to pick Demecco Ryans in the 2nd round.  I loved that guy at Alabama, and he is a sure enough stud now. If they had DJ to play outside and Ryans inside they would be set at Linebacker for 10 years.  They couldn't draft DJ though b/c they wanted Travis, Shit for effort Johnson instead.

This has very little to do with drafting longhorns (other than the fact that not drafting Vince was monumentally stupid- but hell that ain't b/c he is a longhorn, even my veeeeery Aggie brother was bummed they didn't take him- it is b/c he is going to revolutionize the pro game).

Oh, as to who outplayed who- take a look at Tennessee's first TD. 3rd and long- vince felt pressure- stood tall in the pocket- pumpfaked, saw there was nothing there and took off like a flash- 2 seconds later he was in the end zone. Compare and Contrast to David Carr's two trips to the redzone- pick into quadruple coverage, and sack and fumble (no pocket awareness). That says nothing of the abysmal way he endeed the half, giving the texans momentum for the game.

Also- look at how vince responded with the lead.  Couple big scrambles to keep the drive alive and a perfect pass that would have iced the game but for the worst call I have ever seen by a referee that was 942 years old and clearly senile. The announcer's as well, with no stake in the game referred to it as attrocious and tasker said if he was a coach he would have been thrown out of the game.

So Please, please please go on believing that the Texans know what they are doing or that only unreasonable longhorns have a grudge against them. I'm sure Limey ain't a horn and he said it is a horrible deal all the way around.  But no- you are right.  Carr clearly outplayed Vincent, sure, you are right. You and David Carr's dad probably believe that.

MikeyBoy

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Re: The Void
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2006, 12:54:08 pm »
Quote:

The fact that Carr's benching came against Young is just a cruel irony.  The fact remains that Carr isn't going to lead this team anywhere, and yet they passed on two highly rated QBs in the draft (and on a fabulous running back who could take some pressure off Carr).  Now, 7 games in, they bench the guy who was so good that you didn't need Young or Leinart.

Just think about it from a marketing standpoint: if you had to by a kid a Texans' jersey today, who's number would you opt for?





Limey - I hear ya from a symbolic standpoint, my point is that from a football standpoint, singularly, Vince's performance yesterday in no way should be enough to validate one's (negative) opinion of the draft, unless you have a pre-existing emotional attachment to said player passed over. Besides, the 2006 draft class is shaping up to be the best one yet for the Texans, of course the previous clusterfucks make that achievement less substantial.
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mihoba

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Re: The Void
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2006, 01:02:08 pm »
Quote:

Besides, the 2006 draft class is shaping up to be the best one yet for the Texans, of course the previous clusterfucks make that achievement less substantial.




This is why I still have hope, Kubiak is running the show and can actually evaluate talent. Benching Carr was long overdue, IMO. This is going to take a few (more) years.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2006, 01:02:12 pm »
Quote:



The Texans have used their first pick on defense in each of the last 5 drafts (IIRC)





The Texans have only had 5 drafts, and the first rounds are:

2006 - Mario Williams, DE
2005 - Travis Johnson, DT
2004 - Dunta Robinson, CB and Jason Babin, DE
2003 - Andre Johnson, WR
2002 - David Carr, QB

Only the last 3 drafts have seen defense in the first round, and if you count Babin, the laft 4 first round picks are defense.

Limey

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Re: The Void
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2006, 01:03:19 pm »
Quote:

Limey - I hear ya from a symbolic standpoint, my point is that from a football standpoint, singularly, Vince's performance yesterday in no way should be enough to validate one's (negative) opinion of the draft, unless you have a pre-existing emotional attachment to said player passed over. Besides, the 2006 draft class is shaping up to be the best one yet for the Texans, of course the previous clusterfucks make that achievement less substantial.



My poo-pooing of the draft isn't because of anything Young has done.  It's because the Texans decided to stay with Carr (didn't they give him an extension?), only to  bench "their guy" 7 games into the season.

They should've realised long before now that they had the wrong man at QB.  They had a golden opportunity to go in another direction, thought long and hard about it (presumably), decided to "stay the course", and were dead wrong.
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MikeyBoy

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Re: The Void
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2006, 01:05:32 pm »
Quote:

So Please, please please go on believing that the Texans know what they are doing or that only unreasonable longhorns have a grudge against them. I'm sure Limey ain't a horn and he said it is a horrible deal all the way around.  But no- you are right.  Carr clearly outplayed Vincent, sure, you are right. You and David Carr's dad probably believe that.




I believe the Texans have been a horribly run franchise from day one, but I am willing to give the new regime time to turn it around. Also, I am far from being a Carr fan and was pleased with the decision to bench his ass, so if I have given the impression I support him, then I apologize.
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MikeyBoy

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Re: The Void
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2006, 01:07:20 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Limey - I hear ya from a symbolic standpoint, my point is that from a football standpoint, singularly, Vince's performance yesterday in no way should be enough to validate one's (negative) opinion of the draft, unless you have a pre-existing emotional attachment to said player passed over. Besides, the 2006 draft class is shaping up to be the best one yet for the Texans, of course the previous clusterfucks make that achievement less substantial.



My poo-pooing of the draft isn't because of anything Young has done.  It's because the Texans decided to stay with Carr (didn't they give him an extension?), only to  bench "their guy" 7 games into the season.

They should've realised long before now that they had the wrong man at QB.  They had a golden opportunity to go in another direction, thought long and hard about it (presumably), decided to "stay the course", and were dead wrong.




I agree, 100%
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MusicMan

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Re: The Void
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2006, 01:09:30 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

So, in short, you would not hate the Texans if they only drafted Longhorns?




And trying to say that Carr had a better game than Young is HILARIOUS.

How many turnovers did Vince have?





who had the better game, vince or rosenfels?

bunch of damn myopic longhorns who think vince shits gold.  he is shitting, but gold aint whats coming out.




Bunch of damn myopic longhorns who think that "Winning" is the objective of the game.

As a Texans fan, you can't really be blamed for losing sight of this objective.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2006, 01:11:47 pm »
Yeah, I think they drafted Mario Williams because he was easier to deal with than Reggie Bush's agent.  Choosing signability over talent.  Another hallmark of a crappy organization.

Quote:

Quote:

Limey - I hear ya from a symbolic standpoint, my point is that from a football standpoint, singularly, Vince's performance yesterday in no way should be enough to validate one's (negative) opinion of the draft, unless you have a pre-existing emotional attachment to said player passed over. Besides, the 2006 draft class is shaping up to be the best one yet for the Texans, of course the previous clusterfucks make that achievement less substantial.



My poo-pooing of the draft isn't because of anything Young has done.  It's because the Texans decided to stay with Carr (didn't they give him an extension?), only to  bench "their guy" 7 games into the season.

They should've realised long before now that they had the wrong man at QB.  They had a golden opportunity to go in another direction, thought long and hard about it (presumably), decided to "stay the course", and were dead wrong.


Grab another Coke and let's die

MusicMan

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Re: The Void
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2006, 01:14:18 pm »
Quote:

Yeah, I think they drafted Mario Williams because he was easier to deal with than Reggie Bush's agent.  Choosing signability over talent.  Another hallmark of a crappy organization.




The crap that they were "rated equal" on their board just shows how much they believe anyone in Houston will believe anything.

They went out and signed Anthony Weaver to play DE.  They knew that DD was hurt.  The passed on every FA RB out there.  All indicative that RB was going to me the man.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2006, 01:15:06 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

So, in short, you would not hate the Texans if they only drafted Longhorns?




And trying to say that Carr had a better game than Young is HILARIOUS.

How many turnovers did Vince have?





who had the better game, vince or rosenfels?

bunch of damn myopic longhorns who think vince shits gold.  he is shitting, but gold aint whats coming out.




Bunch of damn myopic longhorns who think that "Winning" is the objective of the game.

As a Texans fan, you can't really be blamed for losing sight of this objective.




oh im sorry, i guess i didnt realize that grossman had a good game against arizona that monday night.

and obviously outperformed leinart.

he sure as hell got a "W", so thats the only conclusion we are able to draw isnt it?
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WulawHorn

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Re: The Void
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2006, 01:16:03 pm »
Ankh-

the way the stat should read is that the texans last 5 first round picks were on defense.  A couple of years they had multiple first rounders after the andre Johnson pick.  As I don't really follow the franchise I don't know who they are, but they undoubtedly suck.  Babin or Peak or Buchanon in a trade or some such other scrub.

Vince is not about stats- he is about wins.  I'm not saying this in a derek jeter kinda way (where a guy is surrounded by a ton of other talent and gets credit for it) I'm saying it in the way that the Titans were 0-3 and had gotten buttfuckked up the ass by SD and lost to a horrible Miami team and a wretched NYJets team.  Vince takes over and they play the colts down to the wire, beat the Redskins and Beat the Texans.  That's what I mean by making his guys better.

I'm gonna say vince finishes over 500 in games he starts, as a rookie, with a putrid surrounding cast, and it's b/c he wills the team to greater. The guys buy into him, he's a leader of men. Hell, he even loosened Mack Brown and Greg Davis up, and men that were considered Catatonic in big games beat Michigan, OU, Ohio State and USC in a 12 month period.  Not only that- but he taught them how to relate to players and to loosen up and have fun with the whole deal.  Titans defensive players were begging the coaching staff (who doesn't really buy into VY yet) to play him.  The team has responded like the Texans never have.  If you switch David Carr and Vince Young the Texans win going away yesterday.  The texans would finish 500 and the town would go nuts for them. Also, their games would be seen by more than 10's of people limited to just the greater houston metro area.

Vince is going to go down as Michael Jordan in cleats.  It won't have anything to do with stats, it will be a will to win, raising everyone else's level and a competitiveness that won't take losing.

Picking Reggie Bush would have been a mistake but it at least would have made sense.  What they did, instead, was so damn stupid as to be indefensible, and piss off and alienate their fanbase.  I'm going to laugh my ass off as they play to 50k empty seats in November and December again, except when Vince comes to town to show them what they could have had.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2006, 01:16:30 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

So, in short, you would not hate the Texans if they only drafted Longhorns?




I think its more along the lines of he wouldn't hate the Texans if they actually made a smart personell descision once in a while.

And trying to say that Carr had a better game than Young is HILARIOUS.

How many turnovers did Vince have?

And in those final stats, lets not forget that he should've had another 30ish yards that the refs and replay somehow managed to completely both the call on.





Mark,
Okay, so my statement about Carr was inaccurate, I agree, but I just didn't see enough out of Vince to say THAT should be the Texans' QB.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2006, 01:19:38 pm »
Quote:

oh im sorry, i guess i didnt realize that grossman had a good game against arizona that monday night.

and obviously outperformed leinart.

he sure as hell got a "W", so thats the only conclusion we are able to draw isnt it?





Nice try.

You want to argue that David Carr wasn't the prime reason the Texans lost?  Go ahead.  I'm listening.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2006, 01:20:51 pm »
 indoor putting

That's a hell of a finishing hole. I went in 10-under and finished 3-over.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2006, 01:23:20 pm »
Am I the only one who is very satisfied with the Texan's draft?

I guess it is how you look at it.  I view the Texans as an expansion team in year one.  That is how Casserly/Capers left them.  

Therefore, the success of a draft for a team that needs everything should not be measured by whether Young is better than Carr, or Williams is better than Bush or Young.  The success should simply be measured by answering the question "Are most of the guys they drafted going to contribute down the line?"  The answer seems like a no-brainer yes.  Williams may or may not be all that, but I suspect he will be pretty decent.  Ryans is awesome.  The tight end pick in the 4th I believe looked great.  Lundy is effective.  Anderson looked pretty good as a returner yesterday.  The O-line guy that got hurt was starting and looking promising.  Winston is the only guy that hasn't worked out.

So, all in all, I say this was a damn good draft, despite the fact that Carr sucks.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2006, 01:25:15 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

oh im sorry, i guess i didnt realize that grossman had a good game against arizona that monday night.

and obviously outperformed leinart.

he sure as hell got a "W", so thats the only conclusion we are able to draw isnt it?





Nice try.

You want to argue that David Carr wasn't the prime reason the Texans lost?  Go ahead.  I'm listening.





I didnt create that syllogism, ya'll did.  I just applied it .

you want to argue that Vince was the primary reason that the Titans won?
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Re: The Void
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2006, 01:25:32 pm »
Tophar-  you really aren't getting it.

Rex Grossman happens to be a QB on a really, really, really good and talented team with an awesome defense. Vince took over a team that NOBODY considered talented in any way that gave up 40 points regularly. He has no real playmakers on offense but his threat to run the ball makes everybody else on offense better (he made Cedric Benson, not the other way around).  It's no coincidence that Travis Henry and Lendale White are now running through gaping holes as the defense has to account for Vince, when they couldn't do that with Kerry Collins back there.  Did you see the TD pass. How about that 20 yard run on the zone read keep. This opens up everything. Against the colts they went 80 yards out of the zone read to start the game with vince running for an 19 yard TD at the end. They then abandoned that concept inexplicably the rest of the game, but Indy was so worried about it that there were tons of lanes to run through.

No, saying Vince is responsible for the W's is not the same as giving Rex the credit for the AZ game.  Not by any means similar.

Sage played a good game. It was in mop up duty, so who knows. We will not see what he has to offer otherwise according to Kubiak who says DC is still the man.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2006, 01:26:56 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

oh im sorry, i guess i didnt realize that grossman had a good game against arizona that monday night.

and obviously outperformed leinart.

he sure as hell got a "W", so thats the only conclusion we are able to draw isnt it?





Nice try.

You want to argue that David Carr wasn't the prime reason the Texans lost?  Go ahead.  I'm listening.




I didnt create that syllogism, ya'll did.  I just applied it .

you want to argue that Vince was the primary reason that the Titans won?




2 TD, no turnovers, ran exactly the game plan his coaches scripted?

Yeah, I'll take that argument.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2006, 01:32:38 pm »
Yes- Vince was the reason the Titans won. He played mistake free football. He led the team.  He completely created both TD's on 3rd and longs by scrambling the first time and keeping himself alive in the pocket and running through 4 different reads on the TD pass.

He got no help from the Zebra's (horrible call when the Titans would have put the game away with 5 minutes left and win by two TD's) and little help from his receivers (drew Bennett made zero attempt to get that long ball down the sidelines in the first half that could have gone for 50).  He also inspires the team. I've always thought (maybe wrongly so) that this was overrated in baseball b/c it's a game of individual against individual 95% of the time, but in football that's not the case. Did you see him dancing around after the defensive play. Did you see the defenders and special teams guys celebrating with him on those TD's.  That's the kind of charisma that makes guys dig down deep and play harder in football. That was missing with Texas pre-vince and it damn sure was missing in Nashville as they were getting destroyed or losing to horrible teams pre-Vince.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2006, 01:44:30 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

vince is hardly tearing the league apart by any measure you wish to choose.  once he can throw the ball past 15 yards that doesnt cause the WR to stop and turn around to catch it, then maybe he might actually be of worth in the NFL.

and besides, considering it was only the fans clamoring for vince, who wasnt going to be drafted by the texans, mario williams or no,  i think this a bit of a reach.




The Texans passed on Young, AND Matt Leinart AND Reggie Bush.  It's not just Carr vs. Young.





Yeah, but Reggie Bush has a QB rating of 0.0 after yesterday's game, throwing a red zone interception to boot. There's no way you can consider that he would be an improvement over Carr.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2006, 01:47:15 pm »
Another leadership example and why people rally to Vince:

During the preseason, after the 2nd or so game, when he was 2nd or 3rd team and everybody thought he was going to sit most of the year the coaches handed out penalties for mistakes in the previous game.  They started out by making some undrafted free agent run wind sprints for a false start penalty.  Vince took off running with the guy, so it was just the two of them. Vince then ran every single sprint, with every single player singled out to run them. He said he wasn't going to make anyone face their screw ups by themselves, they were all in it together.  The undrafted free agent guy was incredulous that the #3 pick in the draft was running sprints with him for his penalties.  He said he would gladly run through a wall if Vince wanted him to.  You think David Carr ever did this?  Hell no.  This perfectly captures the VY experience. Those guys bought into him at that minute.  Lendale White gushes about Vince- says that he was on maybe the best team ever in college, with 2 heisman guys on the field and Vince was without a doubt the best guy on the field and they lost b/c of it.

It will happen over and over again. Eventually, maybe this year, maybe next the coaching staff will buy in and Vince's numbers will look a lot better than they have now.

Mike Vick is kinda the same way.  Everyone wants to dog on his stats or say he can't throw but when Mike Vick plays the Falcons win (they went to a Conference title game) and when he doesn't they are a 6-10 type team.  When you have to account for that kind of playmaking it's easy to run, you keep the chains moving, the Defense is invigorated and everyone is better- stats be damned.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2006, 02:39:01 pm »
So, I guess the answer to the question is: Following the Texans.

I don't care much for the NFL, other than a casual following of the Saints.  Maybe I'll read a book.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2006, 02:58:59 pm »
Vince Young didn't do much yesterday.  I mean, the tennessee offense put up 14 points.  Went 2 of 10 on 3rd downs.  Punted 8 times.  Generated just 10 first downs.

All this against a shitty Texans defense.  At home.

That said, VY didn't make the BIG mistake, and made BIG plays on both TDs.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2006, 03:07:22 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.






Vince Young is the most overrated player to come out of college since Ryan Leaf.  He will not be an impact player in the NFL.  He will not last 5 seasons in the NFL.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2006, 03:08:55 pm »
Quote:


Just think about it from a marketing standpoint: if you had to by a kid a Texans' jersey today, who's number would you opt for?






That's the problem, too many people think of it from a marketing standpoint rather than a football standpoint.  The Texans 2006 draft was a HUGE success, if for no other reason than they resisted the temptation to draft Young.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2006, 03:12:01 pm »
Quote:


Not picking Vince proved to me that they have no concept of fan replations (not picking the local boy, that is beloved by the entire Longhorn community state wide,






The Longhorn community loved Major Applewhite too, that doesn't mean he was worth a shit.  Thank God the Texans have better sense than to try to appease the Longhorn community.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2006, 03:17:28 pm »
Quote:

indoor putting

That's a hell of a finishing hole. I went in 10-under and finished 3-over.





I deleted that damn game out of my computer two years ago, for fear I'd lose my job over it, and eventually end up homeless.

I think Bud Girl introduced it originally; I know she did that damn geography game, which is currently in the top five of things that may yet cause my unemployment.

And now I've got the putt-putt game again.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2006, 03:24:19 pm »
Quote:

The fact that Carr's benching came against Young is just a cruel irony.  The fact remains that Carr isn't going to lead this team anywhere, and yet they passed on two highly rated QBs in the draft (and on a fabulous running back who could take some pressure off Carr).  Now, 7 games in, they bench the guy who was so good that you didn't need Young or Leinart.

Just think about it from a marketing standpoint: if you had to by a kid a Texans' jersey today, who's number would you opt for?





The drafts have been horrible but I'll take Carr and Mario Williams over Vince Young.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2006, 03:28:02 pm »
Quote:

Vince Young is the most overrated player to come out of college since Ryan Leaf.  He will not be an impact player in the NFL.  He will not last 5 seasons in the NFL.



As I've said elsewhere in the thread, the Texans could also have gone for Leinart or, committed to Carr as they were, Bush.

Just avoiding Young doesn't make the draft a success.  And it will be less of a success when Williams is moved into the middle of the defensive line (as smrter people than me have told me will happen).
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Re: The Void
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2006, 03:36:18 pm »
Quote:

As I've said elsewhere in the thread, the Texans could also have gone for Leinart or, committed to Carr as they were, Bush.

Just avoiding Young doesn't make the draft a success.  And it will be less of a success when Williams is moved into the middle of the defensive line (as smrter people than me have told me will happen).





The Texans coming into the draft had areas they needed to improve more than quarterback.

The Texans draft looks like a success so far because they are getting production from a lot of their picks even past Mario Williams. Demeco Ryans, Owen Daniels, and Wali Lundy all look like very good picks at this point and they have a pair of offensive lineman who might help out in the future.

For all the early ridiculous talk about Mario Williams being a bust, Reggie Bush is averaging 3 yards a carry and has 1 touchdown (and even an interception).

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Re: The Void
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2006, 03:41:28 pm »
Quote:

For all the early ridiculous talk about Mario Williams being a bust, Reggie Bush is averaging 3 yards a carry and has 1 touchdown (and even an interception).



Which leaves Matt Leinart, who seems to be adapting to the NFL reasonably well.

Also, the knock on Williams isn't to do with what he's done in the league to date.  It's that he was never going to be mobile enough to play DE in the NFL, that he will bulk up and slow down as he spends more time in the league, and will inevitably end up as a middle lineman.  Probably sooner rather than later.

I don't know much, but I know that good DE's are much more sought after and harder to find than defensive linemen.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2006, 03:52:39 pm »
Quote:

Put your diversions, self-improvement plans, and drinking games here...




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Re: The Void
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2006, 03:53:38 pm »
Vince wins. Period.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2006, 03:57:49 pm »
Quote:

Shiner 97 Bohemian Black Lager. Pretty good. Still waiting for Dunkelweisen to reappear.



Bought a case of that at the weekend, but haven't tried it yet.  Looking forward to it...
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Re: The Void
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2006, 03:58:03 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

indoor putting

That's a hell of a finishing hole. I went in 10-under and finished 3-over.





I deleted that damn game out of my computer two years ago, for fear I'd lose my job over it, and eventually end up homeless.

I think Bud Girl introduced it originally; I know she did that damn geography game, which is currently in the top five of things that may yet cause my unemployment.

And now I've got the putt-putt game again.




I don't remember that game.  I've found a couple.  I also loved the geography one.  Do you still have that one?
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Re: The Void
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2006, 03:58:33 pm »
Quote:

Quote:


Just think about it from a marketing standpoint: if you had to by a kid a Texans' jersey today, who's number would you opt for?






That's the problem, too many people think of it from a marketing standpoint rather than a football standpoint.  The Texans 2006 draft was a HUGE success, if for no other reason than they resisted the temptation to draft Young.





Typo.  it should read, "if for no other reason than they drafted DeMeco Ryans".
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Re: The Void
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2006, 04:11:12 pm »
Quote:

Ankh-

the way the stat should read is that the texans last 5 first round picks were on defense.  A couple of years they had multiple first rounders after the andre Johnson pick.  As I don't really follow the franchise I don't know who they are, but they undoubtedly suck.  Babin or Peak or Buchanon in a trade or some such other scrub.





Remembering that this is The Void and we have nothing else to nitpick about:

The 2003 draft with Andre Johnson did not include multiple first rounders, but in retrospect wasn't a total clusterfuck.  The 2nd round was wasted on Joppru, but we had 3 picks in the third round for Peek, Wand, and Ragone - and at least Peek is decent. The 4th round got us Domanick Davis, who apparently won't get to play again.  The rest of the draft was wasted with the likes of Drew Henson.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2006, 04:22:03 pm »
I'm not sure which geography game we are talking about so try this listing

The Link

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Re: The Void
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2006, 04:22:19 pm »
Quote:

The rest of the draft was wasted with the likes of Drew Henson.



Since we're picking nits:

Henson was drafted in the 6th round.  Henson was traded for a 3rd round pick.  Not exactly a waste, it's one of the very few shrewd moves Cass made.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2006, 04:36:11 pm »
Quote:

Vince is going to go down as Michael Jordan in cleats.  It won't have anything to do with stats, it will be a will to win, raising everyone else's level and a competitiveness that won't take losing.




what was that about longhorn myopia?  holy crap.  i do believe jordan put up quite a few of those "measurable stats" since the day he stepped onto an NBA court.  offensively and defensively.

and not to mention jordan carried the stigma for many years in his early career about not being able to win in the playoffs, all flash no substance.

to call a guy who has a 60 QB rating through his rookie season the michael jordan of footbal....is just outstandingly blinded.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2006, 04:37:31 pm »
Quote:


2 TD, no turnovers, ran exactly the game plan his coaches scripted?

Yeah, I'll take that argument.





ok apparently the new measure of greatness is that he stood around and didnt fuck up what his coaches told him to do.

awesome.
Here are just a few of the key ingredients: dynamite, pole vaulting, laughing gas, choppers - can you see how incredible this is going to be?

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Re: The Void
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2006, 04:47:27 pm »
Quote:


For all the early ridiculous talk about Mario Williams being a bust, Reggie Bush is averaging 3 yards a carry and has 1 touchdown (and even an interception).





and that TD came on a punt return, and not even a rushing or receiving TD.

he's a "RB" that's been used a flanker/slot guy, wasnt he leading the NFC or some such in receptions a couple weeks ago?
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Re: The Void
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2006, 04:48:09 pm »
Quote:

Vince wins. Period.




Vince has made two starts in his career, against two of the worst teams in the league.  To paraphrase the Wolf...let's not start sucking each others' dicks just yet.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2006, 04:48:47 pm »
Quote:

indoor putting

That's a hell of a finishing hole. I went in 10-under and finished 3-over.





-11.

On 18, the key is to use the barrier to your benefit.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2006, 04:49:33 pm »
Quote:

Quote:


2 TD, no turnovers, ran exactly the game plan his coaches scripted?

Yeah, I'll take that argument.





ok apparently the new measure of greatness is that he stood around and didnt fuck up what his coaches told him to do.

awesome.




More than could be said for Carr on Sunday.  You asked which QB played better... there's your answer.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2006, 04:51:00 pm »
Quote:


what was that about longhorn myopia?  holy crap.  






I'm with you.  To basically proclaim Vince Young the greatest player in the history of football pretty much ruins what little credibility this guy had.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2006, 04:51:40 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


2 TD, no turnovers, ran exactly the game plan his coaches scripted?

Yeah, I'll take that argument.





ok apparently the new measure of greatness is that he stood around and didnt fuck up what his coaches told him to do.

awesome.




More than could be said for Carr on Sunday.  You asked which QB played better... there's your answer.




i also asked who played better, Vince or Rosenfels and that question, for some reason, just keeps getting ignored.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2006, 04:53:20 pm »
Quote:


i also asked who played better, Vince or Rosenfels and that question, for some reason, just keeps getting ignored.





Rosenfels isn't a Longhorn; therefore, he can't possibly be a "winner".
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Re: The Void
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2006, 04:53:37 pm »
I had  this bookmarked. I think it's the one.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2006, 04:55:19 pm »
I eventually got to -13 but 18 was always a crap shoot.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2006, 04:55:54 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.





Vince Young is the most overrated player to come out of college since Ryan Leaf.  He will not be an impact player in the NFL.  He will not last 5 seasons in the NFL.




Puh-leaze.  Most overrated?  Charles Rogers was drafted higher and is already out of the friggin' league.

And VY has already won as many games as Cryin' Ryan, so give that a rest.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2006, 05:01:20 pm »
Quote:


Puh-leaze.  Most overrated?  Charles Rogers was drafted higher and is already out of the friggin' league.





Rogers lasted 3 seasons.  We'll see about Young.

Quote:


And VY has already won as many games as Cryin' Ryan, so give that a rest.





Wow, there's a feather in his cap.  And if you'll notice, I said "since Ryan Leaf".
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Re: The Void
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2006, 05:14:38 pm »
NFL.  Unfortunately my team (the Bengals) are just doing OK of late--not as well as I would have hoped.  They're still in it, though, and next week's divisional matchip with the Ravens is huge.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2006, 05:15:49 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.





True, but maybe they'll be able to get Troy Smith next draft.  Although he is a bit short for a QB the guy has a cannon and is extremely accurate.  Plus he's mobile enough to survive behind this line.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2006, 05:22:13 pm »
I didn't think VY would be good at all in the NFL.  Well, I was wrong.  His stats aren't eye-popping but he has made his team very competitive.  Before he was starting they were one of the worst.  Now no one is going to confuse them with a SB contender but they come to play every week and will win some more ballgames before it's all said and done.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2006, 05:25:11 pm »
That's pretty good - now for a non NFL word game.  Happy Halloween everyone!  The Link

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Re: The Void
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2006, 05:30:30 pm »
Quote:

I didn't think VY would be good at all in the NFL.  Well, I was wrong.  His stats aren't eye-popping but he has made his team very competitive.  Before he was starting they were one of the worst.




They are still one of the worst.  Hanging on to squeak by the Texans' second string at home isn't exacttly a harbinger of Super Bowl glory.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2006, 05:41:30 pm »
I'm glad to see I've lost all credibility with you Hudson- a guy who thinks VY will go down as one of the greatest busts of all time.

All he's done in his last three games as a starter is lose by one to the colts (when the titans fucked up the end game strategy and punted on 4th and 8 from their own 45 with no timeouts to get the ball back, and beat washington and the texans). That game was at Washington. Just one game earlier said Washington drilled H-town, in H-town, and Brunell set a record for completions in a game.  Then they beat the texans as well.  He took over a team that had been non-competitive for 2 or 3 years and is 2-2 as a starter in his first four games as an NFL QB. This was after he had one of the finest seasons any College QB has EVER had, becoming the first guy to pass for 3,000 and run for 1,000 in the same year, beat a salty OSU team at night, in the Shoe which nobody else had ever done, Throttled an OU team who had won 5 straight against the Longhorns, and then almost singlehandedly beat a USC team with 2 heisman winners in the same backfield that the national media, including ESPN, was calling perhaps the greatest team of all time (if not that then definately top 5).  Also, the Texas offense averaged Over 50 points per game- I could see how that could be considered overrated

He's not putting up great stats yet, but he will.  Bookmark this and we can talk about it for years to come, well after Mario Williams has proven himself to be a journeyman type DL.  

I actually agre with the sentiment that 06 will go down as the Texans best draft in franchise history (sort of).  I absolutely love Demico Ryans- as I posted earlier.  Winston looks bad so far but he's young and I think that was a good pick. The other tackle looked good until he got hurt- who knows.  The TE in the 4th looks like a keeper and Lundi in the 6th round should be servicable.  All that being said, none of that will be remembered if VY goes on to be an NFL Hall of Famer- which I can definately see happening.  I see the 06 draft as being opposite of the Johnson and Robinson Texans drafts- where they did well in the First round but bungled everything beyond that.  

I also mentioned that this pick would have been huge community wide, especially in the AA portion.  You do realize that after having duel MLK parades for a decade that the various groups finally unified when Vince agreed to be the grand marshal right?  Calls to the radio station were running like 5-1 in favor of Vince after the Rose Bowl.  He would have been a huge deal in H-town and all throughout texas.  They blew the pick from a PR standpoint. They blew the pick from an excitement standpoint, and they blew the pick from a football standpoint.  The average Texans game is seen by about 10% of the country.  They aren't seen in Dallas, San Antonio, Ausin or even a community as close to H-town as College Station

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Re: The Void
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2006, 05:54:18 pm »
Quote:


All he's done in his last three games as a starter is lose by one to the colts (when the titans fucked up the end game strategy and punted on 4th and 8 from their own 45 with no timeouts to get the ball back, and beat washington and the texans).






You're right.  That's all he's done, yet you've proclaimed him to be the Michael Jordan of the NFL.  

Quote:


Calls to the radio station were running like 5-1 in favor of Vince after the Rose Bowl.





Yeah, by the same idiots who want to know why Jeff Bagwell doesn't learn to throw lefthanded.  I don't place a lot of stock in what call-in radio idiots have to say, and I'm glad the Texans don't either.

Quote:


They blew the pick from an excitement standpoint, and they blew the pick from a football standpoint.





They may have blown it by not taking Bush or Leinart, but they sure as hell didn't by staying away from Young.  

[quote
The average Texans game is seen by about 10% of the country. They aren't seen in Dallas, San Antonio, Ausin or even a community as close to H-town as College Station





Is there a point in there, or are you just babbling on about how much you hate the Texans?
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Re: The Void
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2006, 05:54:21 pm »
Topher-

I admitted that Sage played a good game. I don't think you can compare him to VY as he came in down three TD's (or they were down three shortly after his pick- that was in no way his fault.)  Two entirely different scenario's.  Were I kubiak I would start him.  Kubiak says Carr is definately his starter. I guess he wasn't overly impressed?

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Re: The Void
« Reply #80 on: October 30, 2006, 05:59:22 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.




True, but maybe they'll be able to get Troy Smith next draft.  Although he is a bit short for a QB the guy has a cannon and is extremely accurate.  Plus he's mobile enough to survive behind this line.




I think it's the race to get Adrian Peterson rather than Troy Smith.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #81 on: October 30, 2006, 05:59:38 pm »
Quote:

Topher-

I admitted that Sage played a good game. I don't think you can compare him to VY as he came in down three TD's (or they were down three shortly after his pick- that was in no way his fault.)  Two entirely different scenario's.  Were I kubiak I would start him.  Kubiak says Carr is definately his starter. I guess he wasn't overly impressed?





I think Carr gets one more shot.  Then it's time for the sidelines.  I really think Mario is getting better and better.  He will continue to improve and will help the Texans win.  Also Demeco ryans was the steal of the draft.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #82 on: October 30, 2006, 06:01:11 pm »
Quote:

(the Bengals)



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Re: The Void
« Reply #83 on: October 30, 2006, 06:01:32 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.




True, but maybe they'll be able to get Troy Smith next draft.  Although he is a bit short for a QB the guy has a cannon and is extremely accurate.  Plus he's mobile enough to survive behind this line.




I think it's the race to get Adrian Peterson rather than Troy Smith.




I think Peterson will be off the board before the Texans pick.  I believe they'll be somewhere in the 8th-12th spot.  Unless they make a trade.  Quinn goes first as QB, so he'll be out of it too.  Who knows though.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #84 on: October 30, 2006, 06:02:10 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Topher-

I admitted that Sage played a good game. I don't think you can compare him to VY as he came in down three TD's (or they were down three shortly after his pick- that was in no way his fault.)  Two entirely different scenario's.  Were I kubiak I would start him.  Kubiak says Carr is definately his starter. I guess he wasn't overly impressed?





I think Carr gets one more shot.  Then it's time for the sidelines.  I really think Mario is getting better and better.  He will continue to improve and will help the Texans win.  Also Demeco ryans was the steal of the draft.





Well I hope Mario keeps getting better and better because the Jacksonville game I went to, he just did a lot of standing around, gently shoving the large man in front of him, and quitting as soon as the play moved away from him. When he recovered the fumble it was only because he was standing around and the ball rolled towards his feet.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #85 on: October 30, 2006, 06:06:32 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Topher-

I admitted that Sage played a good game. I don't think you can compare him to VY as he came in down three TD's (or they were down three shortly after his pick- that was in no way his fault.)  Two entirely different scenario's.  Were I kubiak I would start him.  Kubiak says Carr is definately his starter. I guess he wasn't overly impressed?





I think Carr gets one more shot.  Then it's time for the sidelines.  I really think Mario is getting better and better.  He will continue to improve and will help the Texans win.  Also Demeco ryans was the steal of the draft.




Well I hope Mario keeps getting better and better because the Jacksonville game I went to, he just did a lot of standing around, gently shoving the large man in front of him, and quitting as soon as the play moved away from him. When he recovered the fumble it was only because he was standing around and the ball rolled towards his feet.




And that's better than he was.  Worth the #1 draft pick?  No.  But he will prove his worth ere the sun sets.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #86 on: October 30, 2006, 06:07:54 pm »
Quote:

call-in radio idiots



Radiots?
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Re: The Void
« Reply #87 on: October 30, 2006, 06:07:59 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

the Tennessee Vince's beat the houston texans and david carr was benched.



And thusly, the lunacy of the Texans' 2006 draft was laid wide open and exposed for all to see.




True, but maybe they'll be able to get Troy Smith next draft.  Although he is a bit short for a QB the guy has a cannon and is extremely accurate.  Plus he's mobile enough to survive behind this line.




I think it's the race to get Adrian Peterson rather than Troy Smith.




I think Peterson will be off the board before the Texans pick.  I believe they'll be somewhere in the 8th-12th spot.  Unless they make a trade.  Quinn goes first as QB, so he'll be out of it too.   Who knows though.




Peterson should be the first pick of the draft. I was comparing it to the "Bush Bowl" against the 49ers.

Who knows? I guess that's why they play the games. Someone once said that they're no guarantees. But I would be impressed if the Texans ended up drafting later than tenth.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2006, 06:09:45 pm »
My point was not that the radio callers were right, my point was that the radio callers wanted Vince Young. Same with the 10% of the country that watches texans games- those points go to the texans blowing the pick from a fan/marketing/relevance perspective.

What is wrong with pointing out his record- isn't the point of football games to win football games?  I didn't say he's MJ in cleats right now- I said that when it's all said and done that is how I think he will be regarded.  

You've done nothing to rebut the talk of him being overrated coming out of college.  Nothing he has shown, thus far, makes the pick look like a waste.  He is coming along just fine, and has made the Titans a better franchise in just 4 games as a starter.  This is how I will fill the void.

Put the question another way- what exactly would Vince have to do to change your mind about him- or is that even possible for you to change your mind on the issue?  I'll change my mind and conced that the Texans made the right decision if they make it to the Super Bowl before the Titans do.  Hell, I'll settle for making the playoffs. Maybe even finishing .500.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #89 on: October 30, 2006, 06:12:42 pm »
The Texans need so much right now, they should just be taking the best player available, regardless of position.  Shit, their needs are endless: O-line, secondary, D-line, linebacker, running back, receiver, and of course, quarterback.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #90 on: October 30, 2006, 06:13:03 pm »
Quote:

And that's better than he was.  Worth the #1 draft pick?  No.  But he will prove his worth ere the sun sets.




It's not a question of Mario Williams vs. Vince Young. It's Mario Williams and David Carr vs. Vince Young. Mario Williams will improve this team in the long run more than Vince Young would have.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #91 on: October 30, 2006, 06:16:44 pm »
Oh- and if someone still wants to say that I'm just longhorn biased in the NFL I will say this:

I would have had evil Roy Williams as the first defensive player on my board, and I damn sure think Adrian Peterson is the best running back to come out of college in a Decade.  No way that guy shouldn't be the first RB taken, and he should be taken veeeeeeery high.  He is the prototypical NFL back.  He hits the hole in a hurry and he is strong as an ox.  That guy will be a great one, provided he doesn't get injured.  He runs a little to upright and takes too many hits for my taste (which could lead to injuries) but that would be my only concern on him.  Reggie Bush is a phenominally talented scat back type (think Eric Metcalf) who is not a prototypical NFL running back.  NO is usinig him in creative ways, but he's not a 20-25 carry NFL back.  I think his season is proving this out.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2006, 06:20:08 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

And that's better than he was.  Worth the #1 draft pick?  No.  But he will prove his worth ere the sun sets.




It's not a question of Mario Williams vs. Vince Young. It's Mario Williams and David Carr vs. Vince Young. Mario Williams will improve this team in the long run more than Vince Young would have.





No, it's a question of MW and Carr vs. VY and what you could have gotten for Carr.

I know Casserly blinded us to this, but some GMs can actually parlay failed players into productive assets.

(See: Buchanan, Patrick)
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Re: The Void
« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2006, 06:21:33 pm »
So you say, stubby- but I have my doubts.  Carr has now been benched 2 times in 7 games.  I'm saying, right now, the Texans are a better football team with Rosenfeld (probably). Losing Carr will be addition by subtraction.  Couple the salary cap waste the texans have set up and it is Young + Free agent vs Williams and Carr.  I like Young plus FA + whatever pick you could get for Carr were you to trade him.

Another point- Carr would fetch a 3rd rounder in trade, at the best.  #1 pick 4 short years ago.  The guy after him, Carson Palmer- would fetch a #1 overall.  The guy before him, Mike Vick, would also fetch an overall #1.  Neither guy is on the market, which also should tell you something.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2006, 06:21:48 pm »
You can't judge Bush by the way he's being used right now. The Saints have proven Deuce McAllister carrying the load. Give Reggie time.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #95 on: October 30, 2006, 06:23:12 pm »
Quote:

Topher-

I admitted that Sage played a good game. I don't think you can compare him to VY as he came in down three TD's (or they were down three shortly after his pick- that was in no way his fault.)  Two entirely different scenario's.  Were I kubiak I would start him.  Kubiak says Carr is definately his starter. I guess he wasn't overly impressed?





way to almost admit that he had a better game in one half than vince.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #96 on: October 30, 2006, 06:26:05 pm »
I think the Saints are doing a tremendous job of utilizing Bush- he just ain't a prototypical every down back in the NFL who would get 22 carries a game.  He isn't better than Deuce now, and I don't see him being better than Deuce in the future.  This isn't a huge knock, Duece is one heck of a RB.

Bush is a handy guy to have but not the re-incarnation of Gayle Sayers.  Eric Metcalf went to 3 or 4 pro-bowls.  This is not a bad thing comparing him to Metcalf.  That's just the type of guy he is, not Walter Payton, Gayle Sayers, LDT, Emmit Smith. He's more of a Barry Sanders type running back, only not as good.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #97 on: October 30, 2006, 06:28:01 pm »
You can't comparet the two Topher.  With Sage in the Titans were basically just running out the clock. They had their lead already.  They would have successfully run out the clock and won by 2 TD's if not for a horrific call that the announcer's decried as one of the worst they had ever seen. Instead the Titans won by one TD.  The game was over, for all intents and purposes, after the Sage pick (that was not his fault).

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Re: The Void
« Reply #98 on: October 30, 2006, 06:28:25 pm »
Quote:


Put the question another way- what exactly would Vince have to do to change your mind about him- or is that even possible for you to change your mind on the issue?





Throw for more than 87 yards against a defense that gave up 22 straight receptions to Mark "i have no legs" Brunell?

Be able to hit a non stationary receiver?

Have you seen this man try to throw a ball downfield?  And by downfield I mean more than 15 yards.  It's painful.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #99 on: October 30, 2006, 06:29:09 pm »
Quote:

So you say, stubby- but I have my doubts.  Carr has now been benched 2 times in 7 games.  I'm saying, right now, the Texans are a better football team with Rosenfeld (probably). Losing Carr will be addition by subtraction.  Couple the salary cap waste the texans have set up and it is Young + Free agent vs Williams and Carr.  I like Young plus FA + whatever pick you could get for Carr were you to trade him.

Another point- Carr would fetch a 3rd rounder in trade, at the best.  #1 pick 4 short years ago.  The guy after him, Carson Palmer- would fetch a #1 overall.  The guy before him, Mike Vick, would also fetch an overall #1.  Neither guy is on the market, which also should tell you something.





The Texans are not a better team with Rosenfels. Carr played his first four years with literally no support. He had absolutely no offensive line, one receiver (who was hurt a lot) and no tight end target. He finally starts getting some pieces around him and he's had a good year. He has one bad game and all of a sudden he's worthless again.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #100 on: October 30, 2006, 06:34:49 pm »
Quote:


Be able to hit a non stationary receiver?





I've seen him hit his receivers repeatedly in stride.  I've seen some bad throws, but I've seen more drops.

Quote:

Have you seen this man try to throw a ball downfield?  And by downfield I mean more than 15 yards.  It's painful.




I watched him do it for 3 years.  He can do it quite well.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #101 on: October 30, 2006, 06:46:17 pm »
I gotta disagree with that Stubby.  I've tried my best to believe in Carr, but I ran out of patience yesterday.  He had a crappy second half against the cowboys, and IIRC, at least a few other fumbles earlier in the year of the Carr variety where he has no sense of the pressure, gets hit, and cough, there goes the football.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #102 on: October 30, 2006, 06:50:20 pm »
Quote:

You can't comparet the two Topher.  With Sage in the Titans were basically just running out the clock. They had their lead already.  They would have successfully run out the clock and won by 2 TD's if not for a horrific call that the announcer's decried as one of the worst they had ever seen. Instead the Titans won by one TD.  The game was over, for all intents and purposes, after the Sage pick (that was not his fault).




I suppose HH was right, Rosenfels just wasnt lucky enought to be a longhorn.

And the call wasnt that bad, I think we all can agree that announcers have a tendency towards hyperbole.  although i did think it was an *interception myself, the interpretation by the head referee was at least a logical one.  if bennett was bobbling the ball on that first step, then he didnt have possession for the requisite two feet in bounds.

although there are some in this thread who have been tending  to hyperbole already, so maybe those announcers would just fit right on in.

*edit: I meant reception here, not interception.  i thought bennett indeed caught that ball, but i am not the ref.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #103 on: October 30, 2006, 06:54:54 pm »
He hit Bennett in stride to ice the game.  Or it would have if not for the horrible calls. He made a nice throw to Bennett on a streak down the sideline who inexplicably made no attempt to catch the ball, that almost hit him in the foot. If he had made any adjustment (which every wr in the nfl has to do on every pass) it would have been an easy catch.

He misfired badly on one throw- on the run on third and long and pounded his chest taking total fault for it. It was a bad throw.  Like Music Man I've seen Vince make tons of deep throws, to hit guys in stride, in College.  He's made some in the pros so far. He hasn't been asked to do it a lot yet. The coaches don't fully trust him, YET.  This will come in time.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #104 on: October 30, 2006, 06:56:52 pm »
Quote:


Quote:

Have you seen this man try to throw a ball downfield?  And by downfield I mean more than 15 yards.  It's painful.




I watched him do it for 3 years.  He can do it quite well.





against the colts, WR/TE(i forget) down the seam, gets some space and vince lets it rip.  the WR/TE keeps running, the DB stops dead in his tracks.  about 10-12 yards down the field the WR/TE wonders why he's by himself and turns and looks back to see the football hit the DB square in the chest.  which of course he drops and the mighty VY is saved yet another interception.  By like 10-12 yards on a SEAM he underthrew it.

I've also seen him repeatedly underthrow WR's down the sideline, causing almost anything downfield to be a jumpball between WR's and DB's.

In the NFL so far, he most definitely has not.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #105 on: October 30, 2006, 07:02:48 pm »
I've said nothing bad about sage. I said that he played a fine game. I said that the texans would probably be better with him at the helm than with Carr.  He is what he is, a journeyman type guy in the NFL.  Lets see what he looks like if given the responsibility of starting the game, and if the other team gameplans around him before we truly annoint him as better.

It has nothing to do with being a longhorn or not a longhorn.
The only people I've heard who think Vince is a bust think so b/c they are brain damanged (merril hodge) or b/c they hate longhorns on general principles- aggies and the like. I would like for anyone, to point to something specific Vince has done to in anyway be considered a bust.  Through 4 games as a starter he has significantly raised the level of play of his team from jokedom- to .500.  He beat one crappy team (the texans) one ok team (the skins) played the best team in the NFL to within 1 point and got killed by the Cowboys in his FIRST NFL start ever.  How could that in any way be considered a bust.

Final point- you either have to give Vince credit for winning the game or blame David Carr completely- I can't see any middle ground. Either way it would seem like the Texans made the wrong choice.

HH- I really respect your baseball knowledge and think that you are one of the posters that make this site great. I really want to know what you think VY would have to do to not be a bust- your opinion at this moment is irrational.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #106 on: October 30, 2006, 07:08:30 pm »
this is the most ridiculous, Cougar High statement in history. i never figured you for a penis envy guy, but there you are.

he may not make it in the NFL--who fucking cares--but he was not overrated coming out of college. on that, the NFL coaches agree. i have seen a lot of Texas players, but he is in a class by himself in my lifetime. his improvement while at UT was immense and amazing, and there has not been a better leader/winner in my experience coaching and watching football.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #107 on: October 30, 2006, 07:08:57 pm »
Topher-

also agianst the Colts they went 80 yards on the ground to start the game, VY ran for a 20 yard TD, and the ground game was opened up by running the zone read- does this not count?  Does Vick's success on the ground not mitigate him being a shitty passer.  All I know is the Falcons win when Vick plays and they don't when he doesn't.  Same goes for VY so far.  This is what I mean when I say Vince can revolutionize the game.  College football is already sold.  Everyone is running the spread, having athletic guys at QB etc.  If Vince is successfull, and Vick is succesfull the NFL will follow suit to an extent, it is, afterall, a copy cat league.  

I'm not saying that every QB will be such a type (there are only so many of these special guys available after all) but the NFL will have a place for such special talents.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #108 on: October 30, 2006, 07:10:14 pm »
Quote:


Final point- you either have to give Vince credit for winning the game or blame David Carr completely- I can't see any middle ground.





and therein lies your problem.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #109 on: October 30, 2006, 07:12:28 pm »
Thanks for the input Jim- I know you've been a fan for a long time (no old joke there- sincerety) and what you've said jives with others I've spoken with on the subject.  

Better than Earl?  I can't imagine Earl being better- and that's heresy for many folks, but I've heard that alot, and nobody was more beloved then him as a horn.

HH- are you a Coog?  Is that where this is all coming from? I thought you were better than that.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #110 on: October 30, 2006, 07:13:37 pm »
Quote:

Quote:


Final point- you either have to give Vince credit for winning the game or blame David Carr completely- I can't see any middle ground.





and therein lies your problem.




I blame Andre Johnson for dropping that pass from Sage right into the hands of Pacman Jones. If he makes that reception, which he would 99 out of 100 times, it's a different ball game.

Hey, this assigning blame/credit thing can be fun. It really is a matter of one person being completely responsible for the outcome of a 60 minute complicated game involving numerous players on two different teams.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #111 on: October 30, 2006, 07:13:39 pm »
How then- did the Texans win if it wasn't Vince playing well and if Sage played so well if Carr didn't completely and totally shit the bed?  I'm not speaking in absolutes, or the course of a season- just this particular game.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #112 on: October 30, 2006, 07:14:15 pm »
Quote:

Topher-

also agianst the Colts they went 80 yards on the ground to start the game, VY ran for a 20 yard TD, and the ground game was opened up by running the zone read- does this not count?  Does Vick's success on the ground not mitigate him being a shitty passer.  





In all honesty, no it really doesnt in the end.  Look at all the run first, no pass QB's.  How many of them have made it and won Super Bowls?  All who have started that way, all end up as drop back passers, or out of the league.

Being a successful long term QB in the NFL precisely means being able to throw the ball.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #113 on: October 30, 2006, 07:15:20 pm »
Quote:

How then- did the Texans win if it wasn't Vince playing well and if Sage played so well if Carr didn't completely and totally shit the bed?  I'm not speaking in absolutes, or the course of a season- just this particular game.




Ha, beat you to the punch.

What's wrong with being a Coog? Why would you expect someone "to be better than that?"
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Re: The Void
« Reply #114 on: October 30, 2006, 07:15:59 pm »
Bench- they were already down 18 points- I can't see how that does it.  Plus, AJ made a couple of fabulous plays during the game- that guy is a freaking stud and doesn't wear the goat horns for this game, at all.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #115 on: October 30, 2006, 07:17:40 pm »
Quote:

Bench- they were already down 18 points- I can't see how that does it.  Plus, AJ made a couple of fabulous plays during the game- that guy is a freaking stud and doesn't wear the goat horns for this game, at all.




Sarcasm, apparantly, is totally lost on you when a longhorn is involved in a conversation.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #116 on: October 30, 2006, 07:17:42 pm »
Bench- by be better than that I didn't mean anything wrong with being a coog. I meant an otherwise intelligent person being irrational about VY just b/c he is a horn. That's what I mean by better than that (sorry if that wasn't clear).

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Re: The Void
« Reply #117 on: October 30, 2006, 07:18:01 pm »
Man, I've never heard of a Vince-Earl discussion.  Comparing Titans.  I love Vince and think awfully highly of him, but Earl was something I'll probably never see again in my lifetime.  Vince, maybe so.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #118 on: October 30, 2006, 07:20:30 pm »
Sorry- I usually don't have a problem determininig when someone is being sarcastic. I'd like to think I'm in the top 3% of determininig sarcastic comments on the internet.

I just don't see how one can argue with a straight face that:

1) VY doesn't deserve the credit for the win
2) Sage played great
3) David Carr wasn't at fault for the loss.

Not that game. No way.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #119 on: October 30, 2006, 07:25:05 pm »
We've had em sitting around tailgates and I've seen some on the message boards before. Obviously it's hard to compare accross era's and even harder with different positions, it's been more of a who was the bigger threat/gamebreaker/stud. I've actually heard some old timers say they'd take Vince over Earl when starting a team. I've never heard them pick anyone else over Earl. I can't imagine Ricky taking a backseat to anybody but they all say that he did. If that's the case I wish I would have gotten to see such a special player.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #120 on: October 30, 2006, 07:32:02 pm »
Quote:


I also mentioned that this pick would have been huge community wide, especially in the AA portion.  You do realize that after having duel MLK parades for a decade that the various groups finally unified when Vince agreed to be the grand marshal right?





Yeah, but they kept the failed QB David Carr because the liberal media is desirous of having a white quarterback do well.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #121 on: October 30, 2006, 07:36:29 pm »
Again- that point along with the others about how many markets see the texans games and what the callers on the sports shows say goes only to the point that they blew this pick from a marketing perspective. If you don't think uniting much of the AA community in H-town is a big deal in making your team marketable in H-town then I don't know what to tell you.

Vince has his own show on BET and it is getting better ratings then anything else on that channel, from what I've heard. Goes back to saying they blew the pick from a business perspective.

If you were being sarcastic then I appologize, and will drop my sarcasm meeter to no better than top 15%

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Re: The Void
« Reply #122 on: October 30, 2006, 07:49:04 pm »
Quote:

I can't imagine Ricky taking a backseat to anybody but they all say that he did. If that's the case I wish I would have gotten to see such a special player.




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Re: The Void
« Reply #123 on: October 30, 2006, 08:02:46 pm »
Quote:


Well I hope Mario keeps getting better and better because the Jacksonville game I went to, he just did a lot of standing around, gently shoving the large man in front of him, and quitting as soon as the play moved away from him. When he recovered the fumble it was only because he was standing around and the ball rolled towards his feet.






No, no, no, no.  Being in the right place at the right time despite how you play means "you're a winner".
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Re: The Void
« Reply #124 on: October 30, 2006, 08:21:39 pm »
Quote:

My point was not that the radio callers were right, my point was that the radio callers wanted Vince Young.




Your point was not taking Young was a mistake because the radiots thought they should have.  My point was the radiots are morons.


Quote:


What is wrong with pointing out his record- isn't the point of football games to win football games?






Nothing is wrong with pointing out his record, though I have a problem with pointing to "his" beating the worst team in the NFL, and subsequently pronouncing him the greatest player in football history.

Quote:


You've done nothing to rebut the talk of him being overrated coming out of college.





Yes I have.  I've rebutted it.

Quote:


  Nothing he has shown, thus far, makes the pick look like a waste.






Except the way he's played.  Young has not played good, despite "his" victories over that gridiron juggernaught taht is the Houston Texans.


Quote:

 He is coming along just fine, and has made the Titans a better franchise in just 4 games as a starter.  




That is your opinion.

Quote:


Put the question another way- what exactly would Vince have to do to change your mind about him- or is that even possible for you to change your mind on the issue?






He has to have long-term success in the NFL.  Four games isn't long-term.  To bring Ryan Leaf back into the discussion, Leaf was the first rookie QB since John Elway to win his first two games as an NFL starter.  That didn't exactly punch his ticket to Canton.  

Quote:


I'll change my mind and conced that the Texans made the right decision if they make it to the Super Bowl before the Titans do.  Hell, I'll settle for making the playoffs. Maybe even finishing .500.






Well, if that's what it takes that's what it takes.  But that's pretty dumb.  By your logic, Tony Eason led the Patriots to a Super Bowl before John Elway led the Broncos; therefore, taking Elway ahead of Eason was a mistake.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #125 on: October 30, 2006, 08:29:12 pm »
You can play the worst team in the nfl line all you want, but I would damn sure take the Texans other 10 over the titans other 10.

So Vince needs to have years of prolonged success in the NFL not to be considered a spectacular bust along the lines of Ryan Lief. That's asking for a whole hell of a lot.  I think he's going to be a hall of famer some day.  I might be wrong.  He doesn't have to be Elway re-incarneted not to be a bust- that's for damn sure.

He's never lost anywhere he's been at in his entire life.  Madison was a joke before he got there and he took them to the state semis.  Texas couldn't win the big game according to everyone.  Can't say that after VY.

He didn't just beat the texans, he also beat the skins.  Played the Colts tough etc.  He will win and win big.  The texans won't. Thats what makes their pick a waste.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #126 on: October 30, 2006, 08:30:04 pm »
Quote:

this is the most ridiculous, Cougar High statement in history. i never figured you for a penis envy guy, but there you are.





Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you don't believe every Longhorn is the Second Coming, then you're obviously jealous.  If you're not a Longhorn yourself, it's a character flaw.  If thinking that helps you sleep at night...

Quote:


he may not make it in the NFL--who fucking cares--but he was not overrated coming out of college.





He was a tremendous college player.  He will not be a good NFL player.  On that, he is overrated.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #127 on: October 30, 2006, 08:34:42 pm »
Quote:


HH- are you a Coog?





Yes I am.  How is that relevant?


Quote:

 Is that where this is all coming from?




Good God, you cannot possibly be serious.  Believe it or not, the world does not shit green every night praying they have the mental strength to not kill themselves because they didn't go to UT.

Quote:


I thought you were better than that.





I am.  Way better.  Which is why it's so offensive that you have the audacity to question my character simply because I didn't go to UT.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #128 on: October 30, 2006, 08:37:38 pm »
Quote:

Bench- by be better than that I didn't mean anything wrong with being a coog. I meant an otherwise intelligent person being irrational about VY just b/c he is a horn. That's what I mean by better than that (sorry if that wasn't clear).





The only person being irrational about VY just because he is a Longhorn is you.  Any other rational person can see that he has a long ways to go before proclaiming him the Micahael Jordan of the NFL.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #129 on: October 30, 2006, 08:43:08 pm »
Quote:


So Vince needs to have years of prolonged success in the NFL not to be considered a spectacular bust along the lines of Ryan Lief. That's asking for a whole hell of a lot.





Well, if that's what you ask of him.  I only ask that he have years of prolonged success to proclaim him the Michael Jordan of the NFL.

Quote:


He doesn't have to be Elway re-incarneted not to be a bust- that's for damn sure.





No one said he did.  No one even remotely suggested that.

Quote:


He's never lost anywhere he's been at in his entire life.





Neither had Ryan Leaf.


Quote:


He didn't just beat the texans, he also beat the skins.





And you think that's a huge accomplishment?

Also, why do you keep insisting that "he" beat these teams.  I think his teammates would be highly offended by that.
 

Quote:

He will win and win big.  The texans won't. Thats what makes their pick a waste.





That is your opinion.  We will see.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #130 on: October 30, 2006, 09:33:05 pm »
It's funny to see a hard core 'Stros fan calling a Longhorn fan myopic.  

Vince will be a great pro player.  I was at the last 2 Rose Bowls.  When he gets comfortable with the offense, he'll dominate.  Took 2 years in college.  Look out next year.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #131 on: October 30, 2006, 10:00:29 pm »
Do you realize what you people are doing?  This is 7 pages of football discussion.   Football.     Ok, ok, I know the cards won the series, but can't you discuss the Victorian novel or something?  The Thirteenth Tale is terrific.  Anything but football.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #132 on: October 30, 2006, 10:03:55 pm »
Those of you guys debating Mario and Bush need a dose of reality instead of ESPN's hype. Mario has quietly put together 3.5 sacks in the last 4 games. He's not tearing apart the league by any means, but he hasn't been terrible. He's consistently put some pressure on opposing quarterbacks. Reggie, on the other hand, is a running back averaging below 3 yards per carry with no offensive touchdowns. Yes, he's a decent receiver catching the ball out of the backfield - so is Kevin Faulk. What's supposed to distinguish Bush from the average, run of the mill pass catching third down back is his ability to make explosive plays in the running game on top of it - and he's nowhere close to that right now. He hasn't even been mediocre... he's been bad.

Am I saying I expect this to continue forever? No. But if you're going to blast the Texans, blast them over the quarterback situation. Blasting them over not taking Bush looks pretty silly right now. (And no, don't tell me anything about New Orleans' record. Replacing the biggest joke in the league - Aaron Brooks - with a Pro Bowl QB in Drew Brees has a lot to do with that. So does getting an All Pro RB in Deuce McAllister back from a season-ending injury. So does having 8 home games instead of 16 road games. So does a tremendously improved defense. etc., etc., etc.)

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Re: The Void
« Reply #133 on: October 30, 2006, 10:30:09 pm »
If you were a fan of the 2 champion years of the Houston Rockets, then you will be a fan of this team.  Outside of Bonzi Wells, there are a bunch of good guys on the team, and if Yao can stay healty this team is a contender.  The Rockets are still the only team out of the big three to win this city a World Title.

Go Rockets, you are only hope  

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Re: The Void
« Reply #134 on: October 30, 2006, 11:14:32 pm »
Oh my God. When do pitchers and catchers report??
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Re: The Void
« Reply #135 on: October 31, 2006, 10:16:00 am »
Quote:

Quote:

I can't imagine Ricky taking a backseat to anybody but they all say that he did. If that's the case I wish I would have gotten to see such a special player.




 Just a sample of the Tyler Rose





I remember when he was a freshman fullback in the wishbone.

But my most vivid memory of Earl was  this  game. He pounded the Fish for 3 quarters, then broke away for a long TD jaunt, outrunning everyone on the D. For a man of his size and strength, that was absolutely incredible. His thighs were bigger than my waist (at the time, pre-Shiner)
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Re: The Void
« Reply #136 on: October 31, 2006, 10:32:21 am »
Quote:

In all honesty, no it really doesnt in the end.  Look at all the run first, no pass QB's.  How many of them have made it and won Super Bowls?  All who have started that way, all end up as drop back passers, or out of the league.

Being a successful long term QB in the NFL precisely means being able to throw the ball.





I agree with this 100%. You can name several that were going to set the NFL on fire. Randall Cunningham, Kordell Stewart, Michael Vick. IMO it has to do with health. A running QB tends to have his clock cleaned sooner or later. Of course, with the new pansy rules, that might change.

I've mentioned this before, but I prefer the strong D, three yards and a cloud of dust style over all others. But, it never hurts to have a deep threat, also. The Mad Bomber would be my QB. Hand off 40 times a game and throw 6 bombs. Love it.

Vince Young had an incredible college career. Things will even out in the NFL, and his talent will be less noticeable.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #137 on: October 31, 2006, 10:41:56 am »
Quote:

Do you realize what you people are doing?  This is 7 pages of football discussion.   Football.     Ok, ok, I know the cards won the series, but can't you discuss the Victorian novel or something?  The Thirteenth Tale is terrific.  Anything but football.





Oh you're just jealeous because you're not a Longhorn.

If you want to talk about something other than football, let's talk about the new guitar I'm going to get next July for my 40th birthday.  What should I get?  Spare no expense.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #138 on: October 31, 2006, 10:49:00 am »
I'm having trouble with any comparison of Earl and Vince, other that they were both Longhorns. While Young is an extremely talented athelete who took the Horns to the Nat'l Championship, Earl is an iconic legend who dominated at both the college and professional level in a way I don't think Vince is capable of.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #139 on: October 31, 2006, 10:58:37 am »
Quote:

 What should I get?  Spare no expense.




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Re: The Void
« Reply #140 on: October 31, 2006, 11:08:59 am »
Quote:

Quote:

 What should I get?  Spare no expense.




The Link






OK, let me re-phrase....spare no expense on a production guitar that would not require me to sell my house in order to buy it.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #141 on: October 31, 2006, 11:19:16 am »
Quote:

Quote:

Do you realize what you people are doing?  This is 7 pages of football discussion.   Football.     Ok, ok, I know the cards won the series, but can't you discuss the Victorian novel or something?  The Thirteenth Tale is terrific.  Anything but football.





Oh you're just jealeous because you're not a Longhorn.

If you want to talk about something other than football, let's talk about the new guitar I'm going to get next July for my 40th birthday.  What should I get?  Spare no expense.




You do realize Neil went to UT, right?
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Re: The Void
« Reply #142 on: October 31, 2006, 11:20:20 am »
Quote:


You do realize Neil went to UT, right?






He did?  I thought he went to like Tech or something.  Shows what I know.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #143 on: October 31, 2006, 11:22:54 am »
Quote:

Quote:


You do realize Neil went to UT, right?






He did?  I thought he went to like Tech or something.  Shows what I know.





You're thinking of Jim.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #144 on: October 31, 2006, 11:25:03 am »
Quote:

Quote:


You do realize Neil went to UT, right?






He did?  I thought he went to like Tech or something.  Shows what I know.





Unless I'm mistaken, he did his undergrad at UT then got his JD from UH.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #145 on: October 31, 2006, 11:36:42 am »
Gotta go with you on this one, Ty. Someone comparing Earl And Vince never saw Earl.

Vince was a great college player. I really enojoyed watching him and rooting for him. He might be able to have a good long career in the NFL, but I am of the belief he will have to change his game to fit the NFL, rather than thinking the NFL will be transformed by Young. He has done fine so far, but he has a long way to go to be considered special.

 Earl was one of the greatest RBs ever, and one of the greatest players ever.

Start a franchise with the rookie Earl Campbell or the rookie Vince Young? Earl. Every. Time.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #146 on: October 31, 2006, 11:46:48 am »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


You do realize Neil went to UT, right?






He did?  I thought he went to like Tech or something.  Shows what I know.




You're thinking of Jim.




No, Jim went to UT.  I know that for a fact.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #147 on: October 31, 2006, 11:48:53 am »
Quote:


Earl was one of the greatest RBs ever, and one of the greatest players ever.

Start a franchise with the rookie Earl Campbell or the rookie Vince Young? Earl. Every. Time.





That brings back many, many good memories. The run I described in my previous post, head-butting All-Pro LB Isiah Robertson of the Rams, and getting stuck by the Assassin Jack Tatum of the Raiders but still twisting into the end zone for the score. Earl was the best.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #148 on: October 31, 2006, 11:52:25 am »
HH, BD is just here for his monthly Jim-related slam post.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #149 on: October 31, 2006, 11:59:46 am »
I like Jim plenty, but he is a Tech alum.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #150 on: October 31, 2006, 12:01:50 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


You do realize Neil went to UT, right?






He did?  I thought he went to like Tech or something.  Shows what I know.




You're thinking of Jim.




No, Jim went to UT.  I know that for a fact.




I think that was an attempt to poke fun at Jim.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #151 on: October 31, 2006, 12:03:16 pm »
Quote:

I like Jim plenty, but he is a Tech alum.




Yes, Jim did get his JD from Tech.  

But at least admit you are trying to start shit with Jim.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #152 on: October 31, 2006, 12:21:10 pm »
Quote:

I like Jim plenty, but he is a Tech alum.





Jim got his JD from Tech, but he did his undergrad at UT and very much considers himself a Longhorn.  Go play in traffic.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #153 on: October 31, 2006, 01:28:05 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Do you realize what you people are doing?  This is 7 pages of football discussion.   Football.     Ok, ok, I know the cards won the series, but can't you discuss the Victorian novel or something?  The Thirteenth Tale is terrific.  Anything but football.





Oh you're just jealeous because you're not a Longhorn.

If you want to talk about something other than football, let's talk about the new guitar I'm going to get next July for my 40th birthday.  What should I get?  Spare no expense.




Was so.

I'm assuming a steel string acoustic.  Get a Martin D-28 or Gibson J-45 (I think that's right) built the year you were born.  If I were buying new, the Martin OM herringbones are real nice, and fun to play.  Taylor makes good guitars, and make a nice orchestra model.  If I could get any new guitar, I'd buy a Collings.

Check Gruhn Guitars in Nashville for vintage guitars, and I think Rockin Robin sells Martins, Collings and Taylor.  I like Gibsons, too, and always wanted one of the big Gibson Jumbos.
"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley

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Re: The Void
« Reply #154 on: October 31, 2006, 01:56:02 pm »
Quote:


I'm assuming a steel string acoustic.  Get a Martin D-28 or Gibson J-45 (I think that's right) built the year you were born.  If I were buying new, the Martin OM herringbones are real nice, and fun to play.  Taylor makes good guitars, and make a nice orchestra model.  If I could get any new guitar, I'd buy a Collings.

Check Gruhn Guitars in Nashville for vintage guitars, and I think Rockin Robin sells Martins, Collings and Taylor.  I like Gibsons, too, and always wanted one of the big Gibson Jumbos.






I was thinking about an acoustic, but now I think I'm going with an electric.  To be honest, I absolutely LOVE my Seagull acoustic, it sounds fantastic and it's a joy to play. I'm considering either a Paul Reed Smith Custom 24, or a Les Paul.  I've always thought Gibsons were way overpriced, but the Les Paul is nice and I like that sound.  The PRS are sweet too, but they are more expensive, and I've been told to expect 10-12 months to get what you want, unless you just happen to find one off the rack somewhere.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #155 on: October 31, 2006, 02:48:40 pm »
I'm at a loss then.  Here's what I know:

I got a Gibson SG in high school and never played it worth a damn, so I've never gone back to electrics.  Everybody played Les Pauls or telecasters or stratocasters, or were the Beatles or Tom Petty.  I'm too old for Paul Reed Smiths.  What about Rickenbacker?  Cool, timeless guitars that are just a wee bit peculiar.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #156 on: October 31, 2006, 03:01:40 pm »
Quote:

I'm too old for Paul Reed Smiths.  





B'ah...Carlos Santana's a big PRS guy, and he's older than you.  You're not that old.  You're not as old as Jim, though his first intrument was a lute.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #157 on: October 31, 2006, 03:17:20 pm »
Quote:

I agree with this 100%. You can name several that were going to set the NFL on fire. Randall Cunningham, Kordell Stewart, Michael Vick. IMO it has to do with health. A running QB tends to have his clock cleaned sooner or later. Of course, with the new pansy rules, that might change.

I've mentioned this before, but I prefer the strong D, three yards and a cloud of dust style over all others. But, it never hurts to have a deep threat, also. The Mad Bomber would be my QB. Hand off 40 times a game and throw 6 bombs. Love it.





This goes waaay back, but the first true run-first QB in the NFL I can remember was Bobby Douglass of the Bears (via Kansas, I think.)  He was left-handed, too, IIRC.  Not that it mattered -- Douglass was a big guy (for his time) and fast, and for awhile he really screwed up NFL defensive game plans, normally fashioned with the classic drop-back passer in mind.  One year he ran for nearly 1,000 yards (in a 14-game season), which no QB had ever come close to doing.

But the defenses adjusted pretty quickly and, when forced to throw, Douglass couldn't hit the broad side of a barn; and the Bears never won shit with him at the helm.

When Stabler first came into the league, he was thought of as a running QB, too.  He turned into a classic drop back passer, of course (especially after his knees bagan to go bad on him), but I always thought being a runner in his early years helped Stabler, because unlike some QBs, he never had "nervous" feet in the pocket.  He was very calm -- I assumed having been knocked around pretty good in his scrambling days, he wasn't as worried about getting hit as some guys.  My classic memory of Stabler in his prime (in Oakland) was him standing in the pocket forever, and then as his protection finally began to break down, still standing there, never acting jittery or moving his feet, calmly scanning downfield like a guy on the curb looking down the street for his bus, waiting for Branch or Biletnikoff or someone to break into the open.  Defensive guys would be flying past him on both sides, but he'd stand there flat-footed.  I don't think I've ever seen any other QB who just didn't give a fuck like that.

My favorite QB from that era was Roman Gabriel, though.  Classic dropback passer, threw the bomb early and often, but he was huge, and down near the goal line he would aften call his own number, and plow into the endzone over the tops of linebackers, DTs, whatever.

Anyway, I agree with your favorite offensive style.  Remember, too, it was a two-back offense -- your big gun might carry it 20-25 times a game, but the guy who blocked for him usually got 10-12 carries, too.  Guys like Walt Garrison or Larry Csonka would've been H-backs or something nowadays.  And, Lamonica and those guys threw (and completed) all those bombs at a time the rules allowed a DB to basically mug the wide receiver, beginning at the line of scrimmage, and all the way down the field.

There were many reasons for it, but I can date the beginning of my disaffection with the NFL precisely to when the West Coast offense first became predominant in the league..

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Re: The Void
« Reply #158 on: October 31, 2006, 03:21:06 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

I'm too old for Paul Reed Smiths.  





B'ah...Carlos Santana's a big PRS guy, and he's older than you.  You're not that old.  You're not as old as Jim, though his first intrument was a lute.





PRS's website says it's only 20 years old.  I've got socks in my sock drawer older than that. I'm not sure what Santana originally played, but I would've guessed some kind of Gibson.

I was googling around, and the Santana PRS model apparently comes with a thick neck, like a classical guitar.  I'd kinda like it, but most wouldn't.  They are cool looking.

Jim's first instrument was two rocks.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #159 on: October 31, 2006, 03:25:18 pm »
I have a '73 Les Paul "Deluxe" that I bought in some pawnshop in Houston as a present to myself when I graduated lawschool  I still can't play it very well, but I love the looks I get from the high school kids who work at Sam Ash when I bring my guitar in for whatever reason.
Boom!

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Re: The Void
« Reply #160 on: October 31, 2006, 03:27:12 pm »
Quote:

I'm not sure what Santana originally played, but I would've guessed some kind of Gibson.






I know Santana played a Gibson SG at Woodstock, and he also played Les Pauls a lot.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #161 on: October 31, 2006, 03:34:44 pm »
So what kind of amp?
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Re: The Void
« Reply #162 on: October 31, 2006, 04:04:17 pm »
Quote:

And, Lamonica and those guys threw (and completed) all those bombs at a time the rules allowed a DB to basically mug the wide receiver, beginning at the line of scrimmage, and all the way down the field.




You sure is wasn't just the 'stickum' yellow crap plastered all over everything? Once you bumped a player, you were attached, haha.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #163 on: October 31, 2006, 04:54:56 pm »
Stros- thanks for your thoughts on old school football- interesting.

I hope that the west coast offense has about run its course in the NFL. The Rams didn't use it at all when they were the greatest show on turf- ran stuff that is spread like.  The Falcons and Titans are both running some zone read- I think this can work very well with the right guys at QB and the right type of running back.  Detroit spreada the field through the run and shoot with success with Barry Sanders.  Oilers Run and Shoot is also spread like, and they also ran the ball successfully- but neither with a mobile QB which would add a whole nother dimension to that offense, and be like what you are seeing in college. The NFL is a copy cat league. That's how we ended up with 28 teams running a west coast offense. I hope that it's going out of vogue and we see some creativity.  Indy doesn't run the west coast and they've been the best offense in the league for near a decade.  We shall see.

I liked the old Raider offense with a load at TB and verticle passing game down the field.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #164 on: October 31, 2006, 06:18:59 pm »
Quote:

So what kind of amp?




The kind that goes to 11.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #165 on: October 31, 2006, 06:24:32 pm »
"Well, it's one louder, isn't it?"
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Re: The Void
« Reply #166 on: October 31, 2006, 06:29:18 pm »
That's what I thought as soon as I asked.  

The Link

I'm not sure that it's true, but the entry says that Marshall makes face plates that go to 11 for all its amps.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #167 on: October 31, 2006, 07:21:17 pm »
You guys are probably the ones I should ask for advice.  I have, for years, threatened my daughters that I'm going to buy a guitar and learn how to play.  (Just like playing baseball, how hard could it be?)  So, if I were to get half-way serious about an electric guitar, what kind of setup would you recommend?
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Re: The Void
« Reply #168 on: October 31, 2006, 08:40:50 pm »
Quote:

So, if I were to get half-way serious about an electric guitar, what kind of setup would you recommend?




an accoustic?
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Re: The Void
« Reply #169 on: October 31, 2006, 10:23:15 pm »
Quote:

You guys are probably the ones I should ask for advice.  I have, for years, threatened my daughters that I'm going to buy a guitar and learn how to play.  (Just like playing baseball, how hard could it be?)  So, if I were to get half-way serious about an electric guitar, what kind of setup would you recommend?





Well, not that I'm EVH or anything, but I guess it would depend on where you're at now.  If you're completely green, really just starting out, I would recommend not going overboard.  There are a lot of good beginning electric guitars on the market.  You could certainly get something for $200 or so.  I have an Ibanez GSA60 that I keep at the office to practice with, that I bought for $179.  I pair that with a little Fender "Frontman" 15W amp (about $75) that even has a headphone jack so you don't rattle the neighbors.  It's not the greatest sounding guitar in the world, but it holds it tune, and it's very "playable".  Most of the major guitar manufacturers have an economy brand that they market; Gibson has the Epiphone brand, Fender the Squire brand, for example, and you can get some good beginner guitars for a reasonable price.  Find one that's comfortable to sit down and play.  There are guitars out there that look cool, but aren't comfortable.  If you don't like holding it, then you're not gonna want to practice, and then you won't get any better.  And this may sound silly, but find a guitar that has easy to see fret markers (the little dots or bars on the neck).  It's frustrating as hell when you're starting out and can't see where you're at on the neck.  

As for buying the guitar, you can get good deals online at stores like Musician's Friend, but then you're getting it sight unseen.  At a music store, you can talk to people about what you're looking for.  Most of the guys who work in music stores get excited just to talk about guitars with anyone, and they're usually really helpful.  The other thing you get at a store is the guitar is usually "set up" already.  If there are adjustments you want made, they usually have a guitar tech there that can do them for you.  

Get an electronic tuner.  This day and age, there is just no excuse for being out of tune.  

Finally, if you really want to learn, find a good teacher and take some lessons.  They'll point you in the right direction, correct/prevent some bad habits, and are just a good resource.  Oh, and practice.  

Now, if you're already a seasoned axeslinger, ignore everything I just said, for you probably know more than I do.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #170 on: October 31, 2006, 10:27:27 pm »
Quote:

Shiner 97 Bohemian Black Lager. Pretty good.



Agreed.  Starts off light but has a heavy beer's finish.  Not a good session beer, but if you're having just one...
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Re: The Void
« Reply #171 on: October 31, 2006, 10:51:26 pm »
Quote:


Finally, if you really want to learn, find a good teacher and take some lessons.  They'll point you in the right direction, correct/prevent some bad habits, and are just a good resource.  Oh, and practice.  

Now, if you're already a seasoned axeslinger, ignore everything I just said, for you probably know more than I do.




Thanks for the advice.  I am as green as they come.  The smart play is probably to get some lessons first, and then see where things go.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #172 on: October 31, 2006, 11:31:16 pm »
Here's the deal (I think), there's so much good music out there written for guitar, and so many good guitars, from cheap to unimaginatively expensive, you can't go wrong==as long as you know what kind of music you want to play and match that to the guitar.  Most people don't really want an electric, they want an acoustic because what they want to do is have as couple of beers and sing a couple of songs while treating the guitar like a drum--which is a great way to treat a guitar.  HH's Seagull is a great acoustic at a great price.  Every rock song you know has that acoustic drumbeat at its background, even if it's played on an electric guitar.  You can get some lessons, or you can learn some chords and do it yourself, but either way it's in the music you choose, and more likely than not an acoustic is the place to start.  Once you get there, you can decide whether it's time to move to an electric .  

Now I will tell one of my three great guitar buying stories.

We were in Spain, and I had been to the Rameriz shop in Madrid and had looked up the guy who made my guitar.  Then we took the overnight train to Granada.

In Granada, when you come down the mountain from the Alhambra, there's a street of guitar makers.  Each shop is maybe 12' by 20', and in that space the luthier has a big work bench and some forms and he stands there building guitars.  When you come through the door there are maybe 15 guitars hanging on racks, 10 of which are Flamencos, and 5 of which are classicals.  There is always a picture of Tarrega who wrote the Recuerdos de Alhambra hanging on the wall.  The guy builds the classicals because they sell, but what he loves are the Flamencos, and one night I walked by a shop and looked through a window and saw the luthier and his wife and a friend playing--the wife was standing and clapping while the friend sang.  So for one day I ran off Kris and the kids and went from guitar shop to guitar shop looking at guitars.

Now the thing was, the shops were so small that only one guitarist could play at a time, and the guy in front of me, going the same route shop to shop, was Japanese.  I played classical--the one song I can always remember and always like to play in shops because it uses the whole guital is the Villa Lobos Choros 1--but the Japanese guy was playing Flamenco and honest to God, he was good, like you expect some 25 year-old whack Japanese kid who thinks he's Spanish to be.   He was really good.  So I'd walk into a shop, wait for the kid to finish, and just be stunned at how good he was.  He and I travelled the shops, me following him, for an afternoon.

Then Kris and I spent two days more in Granada, and took a train to Sevilla.  We stayed in the Jewish quarter of Sevilla, and to get to our hotel the cab dropped us off at an alleyway and we had to walk a block because the  street was too narrow for cars.  We took off and walked maybe a mile or so to the Cathedral--Sevilla may be the most beautiful city on earth, I think, with bullfights just like baseball.  We toured the Cathedral, then got lost going back through the Jewish quarter.  We were going down this random street, and my kids pointed out a guitar shop.

The Japanese kid was there, 150 miles and 3 days from where we started.  He looked up at me and yelled the only words I can remember us exchanging:  I bought one! And then he held up the guitar and just grinned.  I have liked that guitar more than any guitar I ever bought.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #173 on: November 01, 2006, 12:07:23 am »
Quote:

Gotta go with you on this one, Ty. Someone comparing Earl And Vince never saw Earl.

Vince was a great college player. I really enojoyed watching him and rooting for him. He might be able to have a good long career in the NFL, but I am of the belief he will have to change his game to fit the NFL, rather than thinking the NFL will be transformed by Young. He has done fine so far, but he has a long way to go to be considered special.

 Earl was one of the greatest RBs ever, and one of the greatest players ever.

Start a franchise with the rookie Earl Campbell or the rookie Vince Young? Earl. Every. Time.






Soooo...  I take it you guys are too young to remember  Woo Woo Worster?

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Re: The Void
« Reply #174 on: November 01, 2006, 12:37:31 pm »
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But my most vivid memory of Earl was  this  game. He pounded the Fish for 3 quarters, then broke away for a long TD jaunt, outrunning everyone on the D. For a man of his size and strength, that was absolutely incredible. His thighs were bigger than my waist (at the time, pre-Shiner)





Yeah, that game was great. My fondest memory was 1979 Thanksgiving Day in Dallas.  

Houston Oilers 30, Dallas Cowboys 24
Campbell, ran for 195 yards and two touchdowns. Including a 61-yard TD run. My sister and I were lone Oiler fans in an end-zone surrounded by evil Cowboy fans. And every Cowboy fan in that stadium wished they had Mr. Campbell. Tony who?

Of course that time he bulldozed Isiah Washington was great too. He was the most punishing running back ever. He'd fuck guys up. And if you didn't come hard, Earl had the greatest stiff arm in the business. He'd shuck-off a weak tackle like grandma shoo's flys. He could run over a defensive end and out-run a defensive back. He was an under-rated reciever who was deadly with a screen pass. He was the reason they outlawed tear away jerseys. They had been around a few years but with Earl it put the defense at too much of a disadvantage. He was great. I bet he could shit hot links if he wanted.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #175 on: November 01, 2006, 12:57:11 pm »
Damn good story.  You can't get this kind of stuff at most baseball boards.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #176 on: November 01, 2006, 01:37:40 pm »
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You guys are probably the ones I should ask for advice.  I have, for years, threatened my daughters that I'm going to buy a guitar and learn how to play.  (Just like playing baseball, how hard could it be?)  So, if I were to get half-way serious about an electric guitar, what kind of setup would you recommend?




How much money do you want to commit? I would recommend an accoustic electric for an adult beginner. A good one is going to cost you around $500 new, and then you still need an amp. I've been collecting electric guitars for a while but never much of a player, just think they're cool.

After watching Monte Montgomery play the shit out of his guitar, I was inspired recently to buy this and love it. Very playable and sounds good. I've practiced as much in the 3 months since I got it as I had in the previous 10 years. Sounds good amped or not.

Hudson, you should really look into Gretsch. The  Falcon is the coolest.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #177 on: November 01, 2006, 02:56:19 pm »
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Hudson, you should really look into Gretsch. The  Falcon is the coolest.






Gretsch makes some nice instruments, but I've already decided, I'm going with a solid-body electric.  Unless, of course, I change my mind, in which case I'm going with  THIS
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Re: The Void
« Reply #178 on: November 01, 2006, 03:10:30 pm »
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Then Kris and I spent two days more in Granada, and took a train to Sevilla.  We stayed in the Jewish quarter of Sevilla, and to get to our hotel the cab dropped us off at an alleyway and we had to walk a block because the  street was too narrow for cars.  We took off and walked maybe a mile or so to the Cathedral--Sevilla may be the most beautiful city on earth, I think, with bullfights just like baseball.  We toured the Cathedral, then got lost going back through the Jewish quarter.  We were going down this random street, and my kids pointed out a guitar shop.

The Japanese kid was there, 150 miles and 3 days from where we started.  He looked up at me and yelled the only words I can remember us exchanging:  I bought one! And then he held up the guitar and just grinned.  I have liked that guitar more than any guitar I ever bought.






When you guys were wandering around Andalusia, were you able to hear any saetas?  It is considered a form of flamenco music, but I believe it had separate origins originally.

Just very haunting music.  I saw it described once, by an Andalusian, as "a happy, mournful song that makes our hearts beat and brings tears to our eyes."  Something like that.  The saetas have also been called 'flamenco prayers.'

If I was going to take the trouble to learn how to play flamenco, I'd try to learn to play some of those.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #179 on: November 01, 2006, 05:10:33 pm »
Pretty cool story but I am probably biased since my mother is from the Andulusia region and a flamenco dancer.  And ditto on Sevilla...

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Re: The Void
« Reply #180 on: November 01, 2006, 05:42:00 pm »
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How much money do you want to commit? I would recommend an accoustic electric for an adult beginner. A good one is going to cost you around $500 new, and then you still need an amp. I've been collecting electric guitars for a while but never much of a player, just think they're cool.

After watching Monte Montgomery play the shit out of his guitar, I was inspired recently to buy this and love it. Very playable and sounds good. I've practiced as much in the 3 months since I got it as I had in the previous 10 years. Sounds good amped or not.




$500 is probably the upper end of what I'd be willing to spend on what is, after all, a bit of an experiment.  I think I need to wander around some of the local stores and just start to get familiar with what's out there.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #181 on: November 01, 2006, 06:36:28 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

How much money do you want to commit? I would recommend an accoustic electric for an adult beginner. A good one is going to cost you around $500 new, and then you still need an amp. I've been collecting electric guitars for a while but never much of a player, just think they're cool.

After watching Monte Montgomery play the shit out of his guitar, I was inspired recently to buy this and love it. Very playable and sounds good. I've practiced as much in the 3 months since I got it as I had in the previous 10 years. Sounds good amped or not.




$500 is probably the upper end of what I'd be willing to spend on what is, after all, a bit of an experiment.  I think I need to wander around some of the local stores and just start to get familiar with what's out there.






And don't let these guys talk you into an acoustic, if you really wanna shred.  True, if you just want to sit around the pool and pick some Jimmy Buffett tunes, an acoustic is probably more handy.  But if that acoustic just won't get loud enough for you, go for it man.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #182 on: November 01, 2006, 06:40:34 pm »
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And don't let these guys talk you into an acoustic, if you really wanna shred.  True, if you just want to sit around the pool and pick some Jimmy Buffett tunes, an acoustic is probably more handy.  But if that acoustic just won't get loud enough for you, go for it man.



Just make sure that - before you go to the store - you've learned the "May I help you?" riff.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #183 on: November 01, 2006, 07:04:28 pm »
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And don't let these guys talk you into an acoustic, if you really wanna shred.  True, if you just want to sit around the pool and pick some Jimmy Buffett tunes, an acoustic is probably more handy.  But if that acoustic just won't get loud enough for you, go for it man.




this is the truth, it all depends on how you want to play.  I'm not going to lie, I love playing the acoustic for the ladies.  works every time.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #184 on: November 01, 2006, 08:01:44 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Then Kris and I spent two days more in Granada, and took a train to Sevilla.  We stayed in the Jewish quarter of Sevilla, and to get to our hotel the cab dropped us off at an alleyway and we had to walk a block because the  street was too narrow for cars.  We took off and walked maybe a mile or so to the Cathedral--Sevilla may be the most beautiful city on earth, I think, with bullfights just like baseball.  We toured the Cathedral, then got lost going back through the Jewish quarter.  We were going down this random street, and my kids pointed out a guitar shop.

The Japanese kid was there, 150 miles and 3 days from where we started.  He looked up at me and yelled the only words I can remember us exchanging:  I bought one! And then he held up the guitar and just grinned.  I have liked that guitar more than any guitar I ever bought.






When you guys were wandering around Andalusia, were you able to hear any saetas?  It is considered a form of flamenco music, but I believe it had separate origins originally.

Just very haunting music.  I saw it described once, by an Andalusian, as "a happy, mournful song that makes our hearts beat and brings tears to our eyes."  Something like that.  The saetas have also been called 'flamenco prayers.'

If I was going to take the trouble to learn how to play flamenco, I'd try to learn to play some of those.




I don't know, I don't play flamenco, and I don't know a whole lot about it except this:  In Andalusia, flamenco is a lot more popular than I would have ever imagined.  It's like country in Texas.  Like I said, the Luthiers made classical guitars because they sell, they cared about the flamencos.

We went to see a Flamenco show in Sevilla, but I gather that is to Flamenco as a strip bar is to sex.  It was interesting, and they were good, but it's ultimately a show for the tourists.  I suspect the closest I've come to actual honest to god Flamenco was through the shop window at the guitar makers in Granada, and from the Japanese guy.  

Cool place, Spain.  Great ham.  Friendly people.  Somebody called me a Tejano, which is still pretty amusing for the disconnect.
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Re: The Void
« Reply #185 on: November 01, 2006, 09:55:26 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

And don't let these guys talk you into an acoustic, if you really wanna shred.  True, if you just want to sit around the pool and pick some Jimmy Buffett tunes, an acoustic is probably more handy.  But if that acoustic just won't get loud enough for you, go for it man.




this is the truth, it all depends on how you want to play.  I'm not going to lie, I love playing the acoustic for the ladies.  works every time.






The boy ain't lyin.  A little Matchbox 20, 3 Doors Down, or Train will charm the pants right off of them.  If they're 40ish, like my old lady, a little Bon Jovi should do the trick.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: The Void
« Reply #186 on: November 01, 2006, 10:04:05 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

When you guys were wandering around Andalusia, were you able to hear any saetas?  It is considered a form of flamenco music, but I believe it had separate origins originally.

Just very haunting music.  I saw it described once, by an Andalusian, as "a happy, mournful song that makes our hearts beat and brings tears to our eyes."  Something like that.  The saetas have also been called 'flamenco prayers.'

If I was going to take the trouble to learn how to play flamenco, I'd try to learn to play some of those.





I don't know, I don't play flamenco, and I don't know a whole lot about it except this:  In Andalusia, flamenco is a lot more popular than I would have ever imagined.  It's like country in Texas.  Like I said, the Luthiers made classical guitars because they sell, they cared about the flamencos.

We went to see a Flamenco show in Sevilla, but I gather that is to Flamenco as a strip bar is to sex.  It was interesting, and they were good, but it's ultimately a show for the tourists.  I suspect the closest I've come to actual honest to god Flamenco was through the shop window at the guitar makers in Granada, and from the Japanese guy.  





I found the whole quote at Wikipedia:

?When on occasions such as the present, the Christian world still congregates under church domes, and lifts its thoughts to God, amongst clouds of incense and mystical rhythms; the people who have generosity flowing through their veins and the sun imprisoned within their eyes, rush out into the streets. And as they follow the parades, they intone, without music or artistry, the saeta, that pleasant, mournful song that makes our hearts beat and brings tears to our eyes.?


That about sums it up, and it captures what I remember about Andalusia pretty well, too.  From what I gathered, you'd have to spend months there to just begin to understand the thought process regarding life and living, which is quite different from what we tend to think of in a 'normal' Western lifestyle.