Author Topic: Pitching vs. Offense (Read 3629 times)

Alkie · « **on:** October 17, 2006, 11:06:41 am »

2005 WS Champs - Chicago White Sox
9th in AL runs/game, 1st in AL pitching (of 14 teams)

2004 WS Champs - Boston Red Sox
1st in AL runs/game, 3rd in AL pitching (of 14 teams)

2003 WS Champs - Florida Marlins
8th in NL runs/game, 7th in NL pitching (of 16 teams)

2002 WS Champs - Anaheim Angels
4th in AL runs/game, 2nd in AL pitching (of 14 teams)

2001 WS Champs - Arizona Dbacks
3rd in NL runs/game, 2nd in NL pitching (of 16 teams)

2000 WS Champs - NY Yankees
6th in AL runs/game, 6th in AL pitching (of 14 teams)

1999 WS Champs - NY Yankees
3rd in AL runs/game, 2nd in AL pitching (of 14 teams)

1998 WS Champs - NY Yankees
1st in AL runs/game, 1st in AL pitching (of 14 teams)

1997 WS Champs - Florida Marlins
8th in NL runs/game, 4th in NL pitching (of 14 teams)

1996 WS Champs - NY Yankees
9th in AL runs/game, 5th in AL pitching (of 14 teams)

1995 WS Champs - Atlanta Braves
9th in NL runs/game, 1st in NL pitching (of 14 teams)

This year's Detroit Tigers
5th in AL runs/game, 1st in AL pitching

So, 4 of the last 11 teams to win the World Series, did so coming in the bottom half of runs/game in their league. Not ONE team has done that with pitching. Only the '04 Red Sox managed to win a World Series with a higher ranked offense than pitching staff (and remember, the Red Sox pitchers gave up 32 runs in the first three games of that ALCS; otherwise, they wouldn't have had to dig out of that 3-0 hole).

Average runs/game position: 6th
Average pitching position: 3rd

The Astros last year came in 2nd in NL pitching and 12th in NL runs/game. So yes, I will conceded that we do need to improve on offense, but I don't think getting two big-bat-defensive-joke players with high salaries is the answer.

Perhaps we compromise. Go after Zito OR Schmidt, sign Lee OR Soriano, and bite the fucking bullet and trade Pence/Hirsh, Lidge, or someone else of value for a solid #2 pitcher.

Sign Huff. Sign Andy.

Outlawscotty · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:15:18 am »

see: Rangers, Texas

Froback · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:48:49 am »

I agree that adding pitching should be a good thing.

But I look at Zito and Schmidt and see major issues in signing them.

Zito wants to play in NY or California.
Schmidt has basically campaigned for Seattle to sign him. And barring that, will go to the highest bidder. But then I said he would be my #1 target this offseason. And I said it like 2 months ago or so.

I think Lee is a better option than Soriano, more because I think he is easier to get and will cost less. I think Soriano the better player overall though (IF he would be willing to play OF).

And IF the Astros manage to land 1 of those 2 pitchers and 1 of those 2 hitters. Roger will probably come back much like he did last year (for a 2nd half run).

So getting those two and Andy, would then give you an end of the year rotation of:
Roy
Schmidt/Zito
Pettitte
Clemens
Hirsh

I think that would kick the crap out of any other staff.

I still think we have little chance in signing either of Schmidt or Zito, but I like that train of thought. Because I think we have very little chance of signing them or prying Willis from FLA (who is the first trade option I would pursue), That is why I have been pushing for signing Lee and trading for Wells from Tor.

Not that I think adding offense is the best thing for the Astros, I just think it is the best thing of those they are likely to be able to pull off.

Give me pitching over hitting, but give me improvement anywhere over nothing too.

jaklewein · « **Reply #3 on:** October 17, 2006, 12:02:41 pm »

I like the basic idea of pitching over hitting, but don't like Schmidt...he's a big injury risk IMO...always banged up.

jaklewein · « **Reply #4 on:** October 17, 2006, 12:07:46 pm »

Quote:

I like the basic idea of pitching over hitting, but don't like Schmidt...he's a big injury risk IMO...always banged up.

Scratch that...Schmidt's been over 200 innings almost every year of his career since becoming an established starter. I don't know where I got the injury-tag from? Maybe he's one of those guys that you hear is hurt all the time...but pitches through it.

jbm · « **Reply #5 on:** October 17, 2006, 01:15:58 pm »

I totally with your premise that it is basically about pitching, but I gotta disagree that big name free agents are the way to get pitching. Sure, Clemens and Pettitte counter my claim, but other than 2005-2006 Astros, I can't think of many good staffs built around a lot of big name pitching free agents. Could be wrong on this though.

Since any half-ass free agent pitcher is at such a premium these days, it seems like you are much better off financially either trading for established arms, trading for prospect arms, or just focusing your player development on arms. The Astros do a good job on the third option, but they should explore the trade routes more IMO.

CarolinaStro · « **Reply #7 on:** October 17, 2006, 02:12:06 pm »

Obviously, several different paths could be taken this offseason. One thing is for certain Purpura will not be able to stand pat so I guess we will all find out how good he is versus the Beane's and Gillick's of the world. This offense will not improve enough from internal sources and if Andy and Clemens stay away then the rotation gets very iffy in a hurry. The good news is we have plenty of young arms (to play or deal) and some dollars to spend. Purp should be enjoying this...

schlumburger04 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2006, 04:02:53 pm »

wow so pitching wins championships? thanks for the newsflash

but what you and several others here fail to realize is that none of those teams are at the bottom of the barrel in hitting. they have atleast capable offenses, something we wouldnt have if we go with the lineups ive seen you post.

also, tell us how the team with the 2nd best era in the NL did this year

Froback · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2006, 06:15:05 pm »

If it were me, go for one of Schmidt, Zito and Willis.

Probably in that order because FA signing is easier than working a trade.

If you make this your #1 priority to get one of them then you have a potential rotation of:

Oswalt
Pettitte (I think he re-signs)
one of the 3 above
Clemens (I think he comes back for 1/2 season like last year)
Hirsh

And replacing Clemens will be Buchholz/Albers/etc. Someone internal.

If you can make getting one of those a priority to the point of you WILL get one no matter what, then you can have also:

Priority #2 get a hitter. Shoot for Lee, Soriano and Wells.
Again in that order due to availability. If you trade for Willis, you likely are out on getting Wells since two big trades is likely to be impossible with the Astros farm system.

If you had a top tier pitcher like one of those 3 and a solid to top tier bat like one of those 3, I think Houston will have had an extraordinary off-season.

I am just not sure they can afford all that Salary adds, but then, it isn't my money I am playing with!!!

Author Topic: Pitching vs. Offense (Read 3629 times)

pravata