Lidge

[Mr. Happy]

I've seen enough of Lidge with a game on the line. How many games has he singlehandedly cost us?

[pravata]

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I've seen enough of Lidge with a game on the line. How many games has he singlehandedly cost us?

Then you may want to find something else to watch,

"He made good pitches again and got ahead and got hurt deep in the count," Garner said. "He was throwing good, he was down [in the strike zone] tonight. I still think it's going to be OK, but we're getting too many people on base. He's going to be all right. We're going to continue to use him."

As for how many games, are we counting last night when, once again, the Astros couldnt score a run from 3d with 1 out?

[mihoba]

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I've seen enough of Lidge with a game on the line. How many games has he singlehandedly cost us?

Well gee Paul, Lidge has 4 losses and 5 blown saves, so you figure it out. (In two games, he registered both)

It's a  team game, singlehandedly does not enter the picture.

[homer]

 

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"He made good pitches again and got ahead and got hurt deep in the count,"

That has been the story all year for Lidge.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

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It's a  team game, singlehandedly does not enter the picture.

If you could magically convert his losses/blown saves into wins, the Astros are still barely above .500.

Does that mean he's still a viable closer? No.  But there's plenty of inconsistencey on this team, from starting pitching to bullpen, to (don't sell this one short) the hitters.

Add those things up, and you have a *losing* baseball team.  

Oh well.  At least the Cubs suck more.

[matadorph]

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 He's going to be all right. We're going to continue to use him."

 

If he throws like he did last night, Garner has no reason not to. I've been critical of Lidge but I don't agree that last night was his fault. He threw a lot of good pitches and made Bell, Hall, and Graffanino look completely overmatched.

The error on the sac bunt was embarrassing.

[pravata]

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 He's going to be all right. We're going to continue to use him."

 

If he throws like he did last night, Garner has no reason not to. I've been critical of Lidge but I don't agree that last night was his fault. He threw a lot of good pitches and made Bell, Hall, and Graffanino look completely overmatched.

The error on the sac bunt was embarrassing.

It was apparent what he was trying to do, off the mound he was trying to back hand the ball so he could turn and go to second.  You could see him turn his head to look. Tried to make the play that he hasn't made very often lately too quickly.

[CJM]

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 He's going to be all right. We're going to continue to use him."

 

If he throws like he did last night, Garner has no reason not to. I've been critical of Lidge but I don't agree that last night was his fault. He threw a lot of good pitches and made Bell, Hall, and Graffanino look completely overmatched.

The error on the sac bunt was embarrassing.

It was apparent what he was trying to do, off the mound he was trying to back hand the ball so he could turn and go to second.  You could see him turn his head to look. Tried to make the play that he hasn't made very often lately too quickly.

I see why he's called "The Baby Giraffe".

[Mr. Happy]

I agree. My frustration came through too harshly on the use of "singlehandedly." However, Lidge has allowed an earned run in 21 of 55 appearances. Those aren't playoff worthy closer numbers. Wagner has allowed an earned run in 9 out of 55 appearances. Isringhausen has allowed an earned run in 10 out of 50 appearances.

[mihoba]

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I agree. My frustration came through too harshly on the use of "singlehandedly." However, Lidge has allowed an earned run in 21 of 55 appearances. Those aren't playoff worthy closer numbers. Wagner has allowed an earned run in 9 out of 55 appearances. Isringhausen has allowed an earned run in 10 out of 50 appearances.

On that same note, Wheeler has allowed an earned run in 10 of his 55 appearances, with half of those 10 run-scoring apps going in the loss column, and two more as blown saves. He may be the better option, at least as far as consistancy goes. For the record, I was ready for the change much earlier. For whatever reason, Lidge just cannot get it done this year.

[The Third Man]

Since their great start in April the Astros have been one of the worst teams in baseball.  While it takes a lot of turds to make a proper cesspool, Lidge's performance this year has been exceptionally foul.  When Lidge was getting saves (albeit pretty shaky ones) early in the season the Astros were winning. Since he became the anti- Red Adair they have been losing. I know Lidge is not out there forcing Morgan Ensberg to change his batting stance seemingly with every pitch and watch a thousand called third strikes with runners on base. I know Lidge did not wave a shit encrusted rag over the line-up and put a 'can't hit Paris Hilton's weight' spell on them.  I know if you look close enough at the numbers you can find a bunch holes in the team that have nothing to do with him.

     I still think there is a correlation between his struggles and that of the rest of the team. That kind of uncertainty with the closer has a corrosive effect on the rest of the team. It's like having an alcoholic parent..you never know when they will be out in the middle of the street yelling at traffic and soiling themselves, or when they will be reasonably normal. Lidge is that guy right now. He may bring home the groceries and be clean shaven every now and then. When things go smoothly you can fool yourselves that it's like old times. But we all know that this just isn't going to last. Next time instead of groceries he might bring home his new best friends he met at the bar, pee on the couch and steal money out of your piggy bank. Just say no to Lidge for the rest of '06.

[CJM]

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Since their great start in April the Astros have been one of the worst teams in baseball.  While it takes a lot of turds to make a proper cesspool, Lidge's performance this year has been exceptionally foul.  When Lidge was getting saves (albeit pretty shaky ones) early in the season the Astros were winning. Since he became the anti- Red Adair they have been losing. I know Lidge is not out there forcing Morgan Ensberg to change his batting stance seemingly with every pitch and watch a thousand called third strikes with runners on base. I know Lidge did not wave a shit encrusted rag over the line-up and put a 'can't hit Paris Hilton's weight' spell on them.  I know if you look close enough at the numbers you can find a bunch holes in the team that have nothing to do with him.

     I still think there is a correlation between his struggles and that of the rest of the team. That kind of uncertainty with the closer has a corrosive effect on the rest of the team. It's like having an alcoholic parent..you never know when they will be out in the middle of the street yelling at traffic and soiling themselves, or when they will be reasonably normal. Lidge is that guy right now. He may bring home the groceries and be clean shaven every now and then. When things go smoothly you can fool yourselves that it's like old times. But we all know that this just isn't going to last. Next time instead of groceries he might bring home his new best friends he met at the bar, pee on the couch and steal money out of your piggy bank. Just say no to Lidge for the rest of '06.

It's all Lidge's fault.  Ok.

[Dobro]

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It's all Lidge's fault.  Ok.

Fuck you.  You idiot.  Did you even read the post?

[pravata]

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It's all Lidge's fault.  Ok.

Fuck you.  You idiot.  Did you even read the post?

The "corrosive effect" phrase is particularly hilarious. Is the point that Lidge was the reason they only could scrape up 2 runs vs Tomo Ohka?  There's a number of erasure phrases in those 2 paragraphs, hard to tell.

[The Third Man]

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It's all Lidge's fault.  Ok.

Fuck you.  You idiot.  Did you even read the post?

The "corrosive effect" phrase is particularly hilarious. Is the point that Lidge was the reason they only could scrape up 2 runs vs Tomo Ohka?  There's a number of erasure phrases in those 2 paragraphs, hard to tell.  

"A number of erasure phrases?" Like Andy Bell? My phrases are more like Billy Squire..short, ridiculous and forgotten. Anyway, I am glad that "corrosive effect" amused you, Generalisimo. I thought I put enough qualifiers to appease a charging rhino, but I guess not. Brad Lidge is not the sole cause of the Astros sucking this year, anymore than he was the reason they have been a playoff team the last two years. But, having a closer with an ERA over 5.00 is bad. Having a closer with an ERA on this Astros team is particularly bad. *I believe* that having a closer who has been very dependable turn into the Human Torch on a team without a lot of room for error in the best of times has had a corrosive effect on the team.

[Rebel Jew]

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having a closer with an ERA over 5.00 is bad. Having a closer with an ERA on this Astros team is particularly bad.

wait a minute, i thought having a closer with an ERA over 5.00 is good.  shows what i know.

[The Third Man]

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having a closer with an ERA over 5.00 is bad. Having a closer with an ERA on this Astros team is particularly bad.

wait a minute, i thought having a closer with an ERA over 5.00 is good.  shows what i know.

You had to edit that weak shit? Come on, Joey! You're better than that!

[CJM]

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It's all Lidge's fault.  Ok.

Fuck you.  You idiot.  Did you even read the post?

Take your medication when you are supposed to and you'll feel much better.

[pravata]

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It's all Lidge's fault.  Ok.

Fuck you.  You idiot.  Did you even read the post?

The "corrosive effect" phrase is particularly hilarious. Is the point that Lidge was the reason they only could scrape up 2 runs vs Tomo Ohka?  There's a number of erasure phrases in those 2 paragraphs, hard to tell.  

"A number of erasure phrases?" Like Andy Bell? My phrases are more like Billy Squire..short, ridiculous and forgotten. Anyway, I am glad that "corrosive effect" amused you, Generalisimo. I thought I put enough qualifiers to appease a charging rhino, but I guess not. Brad Lidge is not the sole cause of the Astros sucking this year, anymore than he was the reason they have been a playoff team the last two years. But, having a closer with an ERA over 5.00 is bad. Having a closer with an ERA on this Astros team is particularly bad. *I believe* that having a closer who has been very dependable turn into the Human Torch on a team without a lot of room for error in the best of times has had a corrosive effect on the team.

It's hard to tell especially as you're evoking the magical "I believe", which apparently, you believe gives you immunity from being a dumbass, but all your erasure phrases seem to be putting you in danger of disappearing up your own ass.

We thought we'd seen every variety of pissing, moaning, whining and that particular tone of post that sounds exactly like a 3 year old girl crying her lungs out in the middle of the Wal-Mart, about Lidge.  

But you, in your genius, ephemeral as you seem to believe it, have found something new.  Brad Lidge is now responsible, through some sort of cry baby acid rain, evaporating from the tears of candy ass fans, and eventually precipitating onto the 8 in the field, has eroded the Astros ability to hit the ball?  He's responsible for 21 straight shut out innings and the failure to score runs off of Tomo Okha and Dave Bush? Is that what you're trying to say?

[CJM]

Fuckin' Brad Lidge, he must've walked by Huff in the dugout and gave him one of those "Dead Like Me" brushes on the arm.

[The Third Man]

Pravata, with all due respect, I don't come to your job and knock the dick out of your mouth.  My opinions don't give me immunity from being wrong (or being a dumbass) any more than the cocks you take up your ass gives you immunity from having rectal cancer. The fact that you spent *any time at all* anklebiting my opinions and being such a fucking douche in the process does make me wonder what happened to you in life. You're such a *sensitive* little prick. All of this vitriol over baseball opinions? I don't understand people like you. I resort to evoking the magical "shut the fuck up" and "get a fucking life" and bid you adieu.

[pravata]

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Pravata, with all due respect, I don't come to your job and knock the dick out of your mouth.  My opinions don't give me immunity from being wrong (or being a dumbass) any more than the cocks you take up your ass gives you immunity from having rectal cancer. The fact that you spent *any time at all* anklebiting my opinions and being such a fucking douche in the process does make me wonder what happened to you in life. You're such a *sensitive* little prick. All of this vitriol over baseball opinions? I don't understand people like you. I resort to evoking the magical "shut the fuck up" and "get a fucking life" and bid you adieu.

Are you this big of a candy ass every time someone calls you on your bullshit?  Lidge has nothing to do with anything except the way he pitches.  The rest of this act you seem to have honed at MySpace. It will get you nothing but banned here.

[The Third Man]

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Pravata, with all due respect, I don't come to your job and knock the dick out of your mouth.  My opinions don't give me immunity from being wrong (or being a dumbass) any more than the cocks you take up your ass gives you immunity from having rectal cancer. The fact that you spent *any time at all* anklebiting my opinions and being such a fucking douche in the process does make me wonder what happened to you in life. You're such a *sensitive* little prick. All of this vitriol over baseball opinions? I don't understand people like you. I resort to evoking the magical "shut the fuck up" and "get a fucking life" and bid you adieu.

Are you this big of a candy ass every time someone calls you on your bullshit?  Lidge has nothing to do with anything except the way he pitches.  The rest of this act you seem to have honed at MySpace. It will get you nothing but banned here.  

Oh, shit, Pravata, I knew you were a bit unstable, but I didn't think you would be such a pussy as to ban me because your little feelings got hurt. The only way you "called me on my bullshit" was by creating an argument I never made and responding to that.  By the way, you go to "candy ass" as your out pitch as about as effectively as Brad Lidge's 2006 slider. Work up some new material in between your therapy sessions.

[pravata]

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Pravata, with all due respect, I don't come to your job and knock the dick out of your mouth.  My opinions don't give me immunity from being wrong (or being a dumbass) any more than the cocks you take up your ass gives you immunity from having rectal cancer. The fact that you spent *any time at all* anklebiting my opinions and being such a fucking douche in the process does make me wonder what happened to you in life. You're such a *sensitive* little prick. All of this vitriol over baseball opinions? I don't understand people like you. I resort to evoking the magical "shut the fuck up" and "get a fucking life" and bid you adieu.

Are you this big of a candy ass every time someone calls you on your bullshit?  Lidge has nothing to do with anything except the way he pitches.  The rest of this act you seem to have honed at MySpace. It will get you nothing but banned here.  

Oh, shit, Pravata, I knew you were a bit unstable, but I didn't think you would be such a pussy as to ban me because your little feelings got hurt. The only way you "called me on my bullshit" was by creating an argument I never made and responding to that.  By the way, you go to "candy ass" as your out pitch as about as effectively as Brad Lidge's 2006 slider. Work up some new material in between your therapy sessions.

What does "corrosive effect" mean? And I'll jump a couple posts ahead and ask you to explain exactly how that affects the way the Astros are hitting.

[The Third Man]

Man, I wanted to keep the insults flying, but I've run out of ways to call you a cocksucker. Give me time.

I'll answer your question. When I say "corrosive effect" I mean a corrosive effect on the team's confidence. They are gripping harder than last year. If some Astros like Oswalt and Clemens have complained about the lack of hitting, I think Lidge's struggles have to be inside the heads of the other players, too. Do we know the extent of this? Of course not. Can you say that Lidge is the sole cause that is fucking up the rest of the team. No. I just don't think you can deny *some* link between his struggles and that of the team in other areas. If there was a snowball effect during the runs during the last two years where people like Jason Lane were really productive hitters, I think there can be a...shitball..effect when key people start having problems, too. Lidge's blown saves in key series' certainly have prevented the team from building up any kind of momentum. I think people in team sports are influenced by what is going on with other players, good and bad.

[stubbyc]

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It's all Lidge's fault.  Ok.

Fuck you.  You idiot.  Did you even read the post?

The "corrosive effect" phrase is particularly hilarious. Is the point that Lidge was the reason they only could scrape up 2 runs vs Tomo Ohka?  There's a number of erasure phrases in those 2 paragraphs, hard to tell.  

"A number of erasure phrases?" Like Andy Bell? My phrases are more like Billy Squire..short, ridiculous and forgotten. Anyway, I am glad that "corrosive effect" amused you, Generalisimo. I thought I put enough qualifiers to appease a charging rhino, but I guess not. Brad Lidge is not the sole cause of the Astros sucking this year, anymore than he was the reason they have been a playoff team the last two years. But, having a closer with an ERA over 5.00 is bad. Having a closer with an ERA on this Astros team is particularly bad. *I believe* that having a closer who has been very dependable turn into the Human Torch on a team without a lot of room for error in the best of times has had a corrosive effect on the team.

While I disagree with your general premise I'd warn you to just ignore CJM. He spends all his time trying to impress the popes.

[ybbodeus]

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It's all Lidge's fault.  Ok.

Fuck you.  You idiot.  Did you even read the post?

Take your medication when you are supposed to and you'll feel much better.

Speaking from personal experimental research, you ain't EVEN lying on that one.

As for Brad's consistently having good stuff, wasn't that the constant phrase that accompanied a Chris Holt or Tim Redding appearance.....and loss?  The latter for sure, but it seemed to follow the bad luck kid, Holt, too.

Are those names as verbotten here as the names Steele and Beall at the Baylor board, rhyming withstanding?

[pravata]

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Man, I wanted to keep the insults flying, but I've run out of ways to call you a cocksucker. Give me time.

I'll answer your question. When I say "corrosive effect" I mean a corrosive effect on the team's confidence. They are gripping harder than last year. If some Astros like Oswalt and Clemens have complained about the lack of hitting, I think Lidge's struggles have to be inside the heads of the other players, too. Do we know the extent of this? Of course not. Can you say that Lidge is the sole cause that is fucking up the rest of the team. No. I just don't think you can deny *some* link between his struggles and that of the team in other areas. If there was a snowball effect during the runs during the last two years where people like Jason Lane were really productive hitters, I think there can be a...shitball..effect when key people start having problems, too. Lidge's blown saves in key series' certainly have prevented the team from building up any kind of momentum. I think people in team sports are influenced by what is going on with other players, good and bad.

It seems obvious from your weak attempts at baseball commentary that you are the most comfortable when expressing your just beneath the surface scatalogical and homosexual fantasies, however, the idea that Lidge's struggles have affected the hitters is absurd.  Your comments don't even stand up to a passing glance at logic, much less explain what's going on with the Astros.

The Astros were one of the worst offensive teams last year.  Starting in June 06, they once again are that team.  How was Lidge responsible for that?  Did the Lidge effect begin in June, was it due to him being affected by Albert Pujols and psychically affecting the hitters?  How is Lidge responsible for Lane's obvious inability to adjust to the way he's being pitched?  How has it affected Ensberg's bat speed?  If Lidge's blown saves have such an effect, why is Mike Lamb hitting much better this year than last?  Why don't the other players consult Willy Taveras who seems to have found the antidote to Lidge's "corrosive effect"?  Why are Luke Scott and Lance Berkman seemingly immune to the Lidge effect?  Will Preston Wilson ever recover?

[Craig]

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It seems obvious from your weak attempts at baseball commentary that you are the most comfortable when expressing your just beneath the surface scatalogical and homosexual fantasies

Your honor, at this time I would like to invoke my Fifth Amendment rights ... oh wait, you weren't talking about me.

[pravata]

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It seems obvious from your weak attempts at baseball commentary that you are the most comfortable when expressing your just beneath the surface scatalogical and homosexual fantasies

Your honor, at this time I would like to invoke my Fifth Amendment rights ... oh wait, you weren't talking about me.

You wish, keep trying, someday, maybe, you'll be that dumb.

[Arky Vaughan]

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I'll answer your question. When I say "corrosive effect" I mean a corrosive effect on the team's confidence. They are gripping harder than last year. If some Astros like Oswalt and Clemens have complained about the lack of hitting, I think Lidge's struggles have to be inside the heads of the other players, too. Do we know the extent of this? Of course not. Can you say that Lidge is the sole cause that is fucking up the rest of the team. No. I just don't think you can deny *some* link between his struggles and that of the team in other areas. If there was a snowball effect during the runs during the last two years where people like Jason Lane were really productive hitters, I think there can be a...shitball..effect when key people start having problems, too. Lidge's blown saves in key series' certainly have prevented the team from building up any kind of momentum. I think people in team sports are influenced by what is going on with other players, good and bad.

I don't buy this. First, I haven't seen the numbers to suggest that the correlative effect is really there and, second, even if the numbers showed a correlation, you'd have to make the case that this is also causation. I understand that you're not saying that Lidge is the cause of all the Astros' problems, but I think you're overstating that his poor performance is even partially to blame for the way the rest of the individuals on the team are playing. The Astros are a team with a thin margin of error that has been exceeded by a number of players not living up to expectations -- Lidge, Ensberg, Lane, Taveras, Pettitte, the back of the rotation, assorted others in the bullpen. There's nothing improbable that this could happen. It doesn't have to be explained even in part by something like Lidge getting other guys down. It's just something that happened.

And I don't think you're helping your argument by eroding the level of discourse here even further.

[Savage]

It's all Gallo's fault.

[utastro]

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It's all Gallo's fault.

I second that.

[The Third Man]

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I'll answer your question. When I say "corrosive effect" I mean a corrosive effect on the team's confidence. They are gripping harder than last year. If some Astros like Oswalt and Clemens have complained about the lack of hitting, I think Lidge's struggles have to be inside the heads of the other players, too. Do we know the extent of this? Of course not. Can you say that Lidge is the sole cause that is fucking up the rest of the team. No. I just don't think you can deny *some* link between his struggles and that of the team in other areas. If there was a snowball effect during the runs during the last two years where people like Jason Lane were really productive hitters, I think there can be a...shitball..effect when key people start having problems, too. Lidge's blown saves in key series' certainly have prevented the team from building up any kind of momentum. I think people in team sports are influenced by what is going on with other players, good and bad.

I don't buy this. First, I haven't seen the numbers to suggest that the correlative effect is really there and, second, even if the numbers showed a correlation, you'd have to make the case that this is also causation. I understand that you're not saying that Lidge is the cause of all the Astros' problems, but I think you're overstating that his poor performance is even partially to blame for the way the rest of the individuals on the team are playing. The Astros are a team with a thin margin of error that has been exceeded by a number of players not living up to expectations -- Lidge, Ensberg, Lane, Taveras, Pettitte, the back of the rotation, assorted others in the bullpen. There's nothing improbable that this could happen. It doesn't have to be explained even in part by something like Lidge getting other guys down. It's just something that happened.

And I don't think you're helping your argument by eroding the level of discourse here even further.

Duly noted.

[The Third Man]

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Man, I wanted to keep the insults flying, but I've run out of ways to call you a cocksucker. Give me time.

I'll answer your question. When I say "corrosive effect" I mean a corrosive effect on the team's confidence. They are gripping harder than last year. If some Astros like Oswalt and Clemens have complained about the lack of hitting, I think Lidge's struggles have to be inside the heads of the other players, too. Do we know the extent of this? Of course not. Can you say that Lidge is the sole cause that is fucking up the rest of the team. No. I just don't think you can deny *some* link between his struggles and that of the team in other areas. If there was a snowball effect during the runs during the last two years where people like Jason Lane were really productive hitters, I think there can be a...shitball..effect when key people start having problems, too. Lidge's blown saves in key series' certainly have prevented the team from building up any kind of momentum. I think people in team sports are influenced by what is going on with other players, good and bad.

It seems obvious from your weak attempts at baseball commentary that you are the most comfortable when expressing your just beneath the surface scatalogical and homosexual fantasies, however, the idea that Lidge's struggles have affected the hitters is absurd.  Your comments don't even stand up to a passing glance at logic, much less explain what's going on with the Astros.

The Astros were one of the worst offensive teams last year.  Starting in June 06, they once again are that team.  How was Lidge responsible for that?  Did the Lidge effect begin in June, was it due to him being affected by Albert Pujols and psychically affecting the hitters?  How is Lidge responsible for Lane's obvious inability to adjust to the way he's being pitched?  How has it affected Ensberg's bat speed?  If Lidge's blown saves have such an effect, why is Mike Lamb hitting much better this year than last?  Why don't the other players consult Willy Taveras who seems to have found the antidote to Lidge's "corrosive effect"?  Why are Luke Scott and Lance Berkman seemingly immune to the Lidge effect?  Will Preston Wilson ever recover?

You say I am a latent homosexual with a scat fetish like it's a *bad* thing. Incidentally, now I understand why you have 13,000 posts around here. It's not the anklebiting, or batting down straw man arguments like King Kong swatting at planes on top of the Empire State Building, it's the sound baseball analysis you offer. Have the Sporting News and the ghost of Branch Rickey contacted you about your valuable insights into Googling Phil Garner quotes? It's amazing you could deign to fit me into your busy schedule by responding so regularly to my bullshit.

Arky Vaughn managed to counter my argument without being a total, gaping vagina about it, so thanks for that. I don't for a moment think I have some special, or even  average insight into baseball and I don't expect to have my ideas treated with respect just because I say them. I don't expect anything, in fact. Pravata, if your panties are in such a twist that you have to repsond to a message that wasn't addressed to you, then go for it. If you keep going to Defcom Asshole then I will respond in kind.

[pravata]

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Man, I wanted to keep the insults flying, but I've run out of ways to call you a cocksucker. Give me time.

I'll answer your question. When I say "corrosive effect" I mean a corrosive effect on the team's confidence. They are gripping harder than last year. If some Astros like Oswalt and Clemens have complained about the lack of hitting, I think Lidge's struggles have to be inside the heads of the other players, too. Do we know the extent of this? Of course not. Can you say that Lidge is the sole cause that is fucking up the rest of the team. No. I just don't think you can deny *some* link between his struggles and that of the team in other areas. If there was a snowball effect during the runs during the last two years where people like Jason Lane were really productive hitters, I think there can be a...shitball..effect when key people start having problems, too. Lidge's blown saves in key series' certainly have prevented the team from building up any kind of momentum. I think people in team sports are influenced by what is going on with other players, good and bad.

It seems obvious from your weak attempts at baseball commentary that you are the most comfortable when expressing your just beneath the surface scatalogical and homosexual fantasies, however, the idea that Lidge's struggles have affected the hitters is absurd.  Your comments don't even stand up to a passing glance at logic, much less explain what's going on with the Astros.

The Astros were one of the worst offensive teams last year.  Starting in June 06, they once again are that team.  How was Lidge responsible for that?  Did the Lidge effect begin in June, was it due to him being affected by Albert Pujols and psychically affecting the hitters?  How is Lidge responsible for Lane's obvious inability to adjust to the way he's being pitched?  How has it affected Ensberg's bat speed?  If Lidge's blown saves have such an effect, why is Mike Lamb hitting much better this year than last?  Why don't the other players consult Willy Taveras who seems to have found the antidote to Lidge's "corrosive effect"?  Why are Luke Scott and Lance Berkman seemingly immune to the Lidge effect?  Will Preston Wilson ever recover?

You say I am a latent homosexual with a scat fetish like it's a *bad* thing. Incidentally, now I understand why you have 13,000 posts around here. It's not the anklebiting, or batting down straw man arguments like King Kong swatting at planes on top of the Empire State Building, it's the sound baseball analysis you offer. Have the Sporting News and the ghost of Branch Rickey contacted you about your valuable insights into Googling Phil Garner quotes? It's amazing you could deign to fit me into your busy schedule by responding so regularly to my bullshit.

Arky Vaughn managed to counter my argument without being a total, gaping vagina about it, so thanks for that. I don't for a moment think I have some special, or even  average insight into baseball and I don't expect to have my ideas treated with respect just because I say them. I don't expect anything, in fact. Pravata, if your panties are in such a twist that you have to repsond to a message that wasn't addressed to you, then go for it. If you keep going to Defcom Asshole then I will respond in kind.

And now you're on "Ignore".  Check it out, you're invited to put my posts on ignore as well

[Limey]

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I don't buy this. First, I haven't seen the numbers to suggest that the correlative effect is really there and, second, even if the numbers showed a correlation, you'd have to make the case that this is also causation. I understand that you're not saying that Lidge is the cause of all the Astros' problems, but I think you're overstating that his poor performance is even partially to blame for the way the rest of the individuals on the team are playing. The Astros are a team with a thin margin of error that has been exceeded by a number of players not living up to expectations -- Lidge, Ensberg, Lane, Taveras, Pettitte, the back of the rotation, assorted others in the bullpen. There's nothing improbable that this could happen. It doesn't have to be explained even in part by something like Lidge getting other guys down. It's just something that happened.

And I don't think you're helping your argument by eroding the level of discourse here even further.

I we're plucking theories out of the miasma, then one could suggest that the lack of offense is corroding Lidge's performance.  The lack of run-scoring makes his job harder, and the knowledge that they ain't coming back from even a tie in the late innings, has him pressing, over-throwing, and getting lit up.

I'm not saying that this is true, but it's as valid as the argument the other way.

[pravata]

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I don't buy this. First, I haven't seen the numbers to suggest that the correlative effect is really there and, second, even if the numbers showed a correlation, you'd have to make the case that this is also causation. I understand that you're not saying that Lidge is the cause of all the Astros' problems, but I think you're overstating that his poor performance is even partially to blame for the way the rest of the individuals on the team are playing. The Astros are a team with a thin margin of error that has been exceeded by a number of players not living up to expectations -- Lidge, Ensberg, Lane, Taveras, Pettitte, the back of the rotation, assorted others in the bullpen. There's nothing improbable that this could happen. It doesn't have to be explained even in part by something like Lidge getting other guys down. It's just something that happened.

And I don't think you're helping your argument by eroding the level of discourse here even further.

I we're plucking theories out of the miasma, then one could suggest that the lack of offense is corroding Lidge's performance.  The lack of run-scoring makes his job harder, and the knowledge that they ain't coming back from even a tie in the late innings, has him pressing, over-throwing, and getting lit up.

I'm not saying that this is true, but it's as valid as the argument the other way.

In fact a number of pitchers have said that knowing they're not going to get many runs changes the way they pitch.  But it's not because of any one guy.

[Arky Vaughan]

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I'm not saying that this is true, but it's as valid as the argument the other way.

The beauty of it is that it can neither be conclusively confirmed nor conclusively denied. It's both indefensible and unassailable.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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I'm not saying that this is true, but it's as valid as the argument the other way.

The beauty of it is that it can neither be conclusively confirmed nor conclusively denied. It's both indefensible and unassailable.

And for that matter, does this type of bullshit, whiner excuse work in any environment?  Be it baseball or any other sport, let alone in the non-athletic/professional world, this type of excuse making would get you pigeon-holed or, better yet, fired.  Maybe it's me and the current situation I'm in, with a group of some 40 people, earning 80k or more, telling me and 3 lines of mgmt that their job is just too hard but offer no suggestions on how to improve the situation.  Oddly enough, as predicted, this defense can neither be assailed, at least not easily, nor defended.  It's the "I feel, therefore it is" defense strategy.

[No? in Austin]

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While I disagree with your general premise I'd warn you to just ignore CJM. He spends all his time trying to impress the popes.

You need to be just a tad bit less paranoid.  We provide the "ignore" feature for all to use just to avoid such paranoid dellusions.

I suggest you use the feature to avoid reading post from those you think are out to get you... your life would be much more safer that way.

If not, then I guess you can continue to post *only* paranoid messages on this forum.  We can all choose to ignore you as well.

[stubbyc]

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While I disagree with your general premise I'd warn you to just ignore CJM. He spends all his time trying to impress the popes.

You need to be just a tad bit less paranoid.  We provide the "ignore" feature for all to use just to avoid such paranoid dellusions.

I suggest you use the feature to avoid reading post from those you think are out to get you... your life would be much more safer that way.

If not, then I guess you can continue to post *only* paranoid messages on this forum.  We can all choose to ignore you as well.

I don't think anyone's out to get me. Don't worry. CJM's posting style mirrors several people who post or have posted here. Just my opinion.

[Limey]

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I don't think anyone's out to get me.

You think...?

[MusicMan]

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I don't think anyone's out to get me.

You think...?

Even paranoids have enemies.

[No? in Austin]

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I don't think anyone's out to get me.

Could've fooled me!

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Don't worry. CJM's posting style mirrors several people who post or have posted here. Just my opinion.

Spoken like a true paranoid!  Dude, just put everyone on ignore and you'll be fine.  Just fine!

[CJM]

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While I disagree with your general premise I'd warn you to just ignore CJM. He spends all his time trying to impress the popes.

You need to be just a tad bit less paranoid.  We provide the "ignore" feature for all to use just to avoid such paranoid dellusions.

I suggest you use the feature to avoid reading post from those you think are out to get you... your life would be much more safer that way.

If not, then I guess you can continue to post *only* paranoid messages on this forum.  We can all choose to ignore you as well.

I don't think anyone's out to get me. Don't worry. CJM's posting style mirrors several people who post or have posted here. Just my opinion.

I have style?  Cool, thanks.

[HudsonHawk]

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I have style?  Cool, thanks.

You have *A* style, not that you have style.  Pravata has a style too, but certainly no style.  I mean good grief, have you seen the way that man dresses?

[pravata]

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I have style?  Cool, thanks.

You have *A* style, not that you have style.  Pravata has a style too, but certainly no style.  I mean good grief, have you seen the way that man dresses?

I have a style? Is that better than a plan?