We may have to use Lane if this goes much longer.

[astrojo]

He has thrown a bullpen session this Monday before the game.

The Link

[Golden Sombrero]

Pen has been rock solid tonight except for Lidge.  This whole team has floundered in extras--they've had numerous opportunities to seal the deal.  I wouldn't mind seeing Lane on the mound--but I suspect that's Garner's Emergency Shutdown option.

[Billy Zabka]

Will Borkowski have to play Left?

[astrojo]

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Will Borkowski have to play Left?

Backe?

[Golden Sombrero]

Can we clone Burke and have him playing every position?  He seems to be the only one who's even trying anymore.

ETA Borkowski is the MAN.  Now get him the W.  

[Billy Zabka]

Lane is swinging for the fences.  He doesn't want to pitch.

[Golden Sombrero]

How many LOBsters have there been?  The Polish Prince doesn't deserve this L.  Can they somehow score 3 in the bottom of the nth inning?

[mihoba]

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How many LOBsters have there been?  The Polish Prince doesn't deserve this L.  Can they somehow score 3 in the bottom of the nth inning?

They better, or their season is in the tank. Losing to the fucking Cubs, at home, in a game like this is a fucking shame.

[MRaup]

Jesus god, I've watched just about every Astro take at least 2 fat pitches down the middle in extras. Ugh.

[Golden Sombrero]

This is the sort of season that, even if they somehow do get into the playoffs, the entire team should be embarrassed.  Every time they look like they're about to turn it around they go and do something like this.  No consistency.

[mihoba]

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This is the sort of season that, even if they somehow do get into the playoffs, the entire team should be embarrassed.  Every time they look like they're about to turn it around they go and do something like this.  No consistency.

I'll wait and see how they respond tomorrow, but losing series' against the Pads and Cubs, before a long road trip, doesn't look good.

Garner was out managed tonight. He took his guns out of the lineup early. Oh well.

[MRaup]

Every time I watched Lane taking wild swings at fat pitches and missing, I couldn't help but think "they released Preston Wilson for *this*?"

[Golden Sombrero]

That makes the second 18 inning game the Stros have lost this season.  It's like they're trying to recreate the magic from Game 4 but can't quite figure out how.

[HurricaneDavid]

Lost in this game were 2 runners the Stros gave away - Huff getting greedy after his game-tying double in the 4th, and Palmeiro making the 3rd out trying to advance to 3rd after his go-ahead double in the 6th.

[astrojo]

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Every time I watched Lane taking wild swings at fat pitches and missing, I couldn't help but think "they released Preston Wilson for *this*?"

When I looked up and saw that BOTH Huff AND Scott were out of the linuep, with Berkman in such a funk this series, I said to myself, "Self, they expect THIS lineup to score a run?  Ain't gonna happen."  @##*%#@ LIDGE!

[MRaup]

Quote:
Lost in this game were 2 runners the Stros gave away - Huff getting greedy after his game-tying double in the 4th, and Palmeiro making the 3rd out trying to advance to 3rd after his go-ahead double in the 6th.

You can take Huff's double off the list. He was protecting Berkman, who was going to be out by about 20 feet on that play. Mansalino was flailing wildly, as he usually does, and Berkman was about 10 feet off 3rd when the ball got to the cutoff man. Huff made the smart play and ran across his field of vision, sacrificing himself to get the run across.

[mihoba]

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Lost in this game were 2 runners the Stros gave away - Huff getting greedy after his game-tying double in the 4th, and Palmeiro making the 3rd out trying to advance to 3rd after his go-ahead double in the 6th.

I think OP was just making sure the second run scored.

You're right though, too many missed opps.

[BudGirl]

There were 15 men left on base by the Astros.

I'm not sure why Lane is on this team anymore.  

Garner did not put his team in a position to win.  Burke and Borkowski did their best to try and win though.

Who was warming up in the pen in the 18th?  Some one ran out there, but I couldn't tell who it was.

[mihoba]

Quote:
There were 15 men left on base by the Astros.

I'm not sure why Lane is on this team anymore.  

Garner did not put his team in a position to win.  Burke and Borkowski did their best to try and win though.

Who was warming up in the pen in the 18th?  Some one ran out there, but I couldn't tell who it was.

Albers

[Duder]

It was Hirsh.  Albers is in AAA...

[BudGirl]

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There were 15 men left on base by the Astros.

I'm not sure why Lane is on this team anymore.  

Garner did not put his team in a position to win.  Burke and Borkowski did their best to try and win though.

Who was warming up in the pen in the 18th?  Some one ran out there, but I couldn't tell who it was.

Albers

Did Hirsch get sent down?

I was so wishing Lane would make me eat some crow.

Good thing about the game.  They did open some concessions in the 16th inning.

[mihoba]

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It was Hirsh.  Albers is in AAA...

Right. My bad.

[guitarcec]

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It was Hirsh.  Albers is in AAA...

Right. My bad.

man...tough loss to take, even as a fan. i can't believe how it makes the team feel. how do you even begin to regroup after losses like that? it was, however, a pretty good microcosm of the season so far. a plethora (jefe, would you say i have a plethora) of opportunities, so little clutch hitting, lit up lidge, etc. so much hope, so little satisfaction.

[MikeyBoy]

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Every time I watched Lane taking wild swings at fat pitches and missing, I couldn't help but think "they released Preston Wilson for *this*?"

Amen. Lane's hips were running down the third base line before the pitcher even released the pitch.

[No? in Austin]

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Every time I watched Lane taking wild swings at fat pitches and missing, I couldn't help but think "they released Preston Wilson for *this*?"

Amen. Lane's hips were running down the third base line before the pitcher even released the pitch.

The hole in Lane's bat is being exploited severely this season and he hasn't been able to adjust.  Anything hard up and in, and the man is dead meat.  Why any pitcher would want to throw him anything other than fastballs up in the zone is beyond me... he will never touch a four seamer above the waist.

He needs some serious work on his swing or else he won't be back as a major league hitter.  All the pitchers know how to get him out now.

[Limey]

Quote:
Lost in this game were 2 runners the Stros gave away - Huff getting greedy after his game-tying double in the 4th, and Palmeiro making the 3rd out trying to advance to 3rd after his go-ahead double in the 6th.

There were so many runs to be had out there it was amazing.  The pitching let 'em down, Lidge (obviously) and Clemens, and you can't expect to score 7 runs...but they were there and then some.

[pravata]

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Lost in this game were 2 runners the Stros gave away - Huff getting greedy after his game-tying double in the 4th, and Palmeiro making the 3rd out trying to advance to 3rd after his go-ahead double in the 6th.

I think OP was just making sure the second run scored.

You're right though, too many missed opps.

Huff too.  JD commented and it looked the same to me too, that they could have had Berkman had they let the throw through.

[Taras Bulba]

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Every time I watched Lane taking wild swings at fat pitches and missing, I couldn't help but think "they released Preston Wilson for *this*?"

Amen. Lane's hips were running down the third base line before the pitcher even released the pitch.

The hole in Lane's bat is being exploited severely this season and he hasn't been able to adjust.  Anything hard up and in, and the man is dead meat.  Why any pitcher would want to throw him anything other than fastballs up in the zone is beyond me... he will never touch a four seamer above the waist.

He needs some serious work on his swing or else he won't be back as a major league hitter.  All the pitchers know how to get him out now.

I scratch my head watching Lane's swing.  He does not extend his arms--essentially swings around his trunk.  I don't recall seeing anyone real successful with that approach.

[MRaup]

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Quote:

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Lost in this game were 2 runners the Stros gave away - Huff getting greedy after his game-tying double in the 4th, and Palmeiro making the 3rd out trying to advance to 3rd after his go-ahead double in the 6th.

I think OP was just making sure the second run scored.

You're right though, too many missed opps.

Huff too.  JD commented and it looked the same to me too, that they could have had Berkman had they let the throw through.

I said that already... last night!

[Limey]

Quote:
I scratch my head watching Lane's swing.  He does not extend his arms--essentially swings around his trunk.  I don't recall seeing anyone real successful with that approach.

It was said in here recently, but I cannot remember by whom, that Lane looks like he's trying to hit himself with the bat.  It's the most perfect description of his swing you're ever likely to come across.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Garner did not put his team in a position to win.  Burke and Borkowski did their best to try and win though.

Garner didn't leave a small village in scoring position during extra innings. The Astros had constant traffic and did nothing with it. The Cubs finally got guys on base in the 18th and won the game.

[BudGirl]

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Garner did not put his team in a position to win.  Burke and Borkowski did their best to try and win though.

Garner didn't leave a small village in scoring position during extra innings. The Astros had constant traffic and did nothing with it. The Cubs finally got guys on base in the 18th and won the game.

Sorry, I forgot that Garner has no accountability to whether the team wins or loses.

[Limey]

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Sorry, I forgot that Garner has no accountability to whether the team wins or loses.

The old adage says that a manager cannot win a game, but he can lose one.  Last night Garner did nothing to lose the game, other than go to his closer in a 1-run game in the 9th.  The only thing Garner could be accused of doing wrong was not dumping Lidge a day earlier.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Sorry, I forgot that Garner has no accountability to whether the team wins or loses.

You know I didn't say that. But they were 0-for-double figures with runners in scoring position in extra innings. A single wins the game, and nobody can come up with it for nine straight innings? That's not really within Garner's control.

[BudGirl]

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Sorry, I forgot that Garner has no accountability to whether the team wins or loses.

You know I didn't say that. But they were 0-for-double figures with runners in scoring position in extra innings. A single wins the game, and nobody can come up with it for nine straight innings? That's not really within Garner's control.

Nothing is in his control.  I understand what you are saying, I'm just sick of seeing Lane and Ensberg.  I don't think they can hit the ball.  But you know what, part of that is Purpura's fault.  He is giving Garner those players to manage.

[MusicMan]

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Sorry, I forgot that Garner has no accountability to whether the team wins or loses.

You know I didn't say that. But they were 0-for-double figures with runners in scoring position in extra innings. A single wins the game, and nobody can come up with it for nine straight innings? That's not really within Garner's control.

Nothing is in his control.  I understand what you are saying, I'm just sick of seeing Lane and Ensberg.  I don't think they can hit the ball.  But you know what, part of that is Purpura's fault.  He is giving Garner those players to manage.

There's more than enough blame to go around.  But I place the vast majority at the players' feet.

[BudGirl]

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Sorry, I forgot that Garner has no accountability to whether the team wins or loses.

You know I didn't say that. But they were 0-for-double figures with runners in scoring position in extra innings. A single wins the game, and nobody can come up with it for nine straight innings? That's not really within Garner's control.

 

Nothing is in his control.  I understand what you are saying, I'm just sick of seeing Lane and Ensberg.  I don't think they can hit the ball.  But you know what, part of that is Purpura's fault.  He is giving Garner those players to manage.

There's more than enough blame to go around.  But I place the vast majority at the players' feet.

I never said the players weren't to blame also.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Nothing is in his control.  I understand what you are saying, I'm just sick of seeing Lane and Ensberg.  I don't think they can hit the ball.  But you know what, part of that is Purpura's fault.  He is giving Garner those players to manage.

But last night, nobody got the hit with runners in scoring position in extra innings. And since they were out of players, who else was supposed to be in there?

He didn't start Lane or Ensberg. They weren't part of the problem until what should have been the end of the game.

[Alkie]

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But you know what, part of that is Purpura's fault.  He is giving Garner those players to manage.

This brings up something that I thought about this morning.  I very much hope Garner comes back to manage next year.  I wouldn't, however, miss Purpura.  I'm not saying he's a terrible GM; but I can say this: I miss Gerry.

[MusicMan]

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Quote:
But you know what, part of that is Purpura's fault.  He is giving Garner those players to manage.

This brings up something that I thought about this morning.  I very much hope Garner comes back to manage next year.  I wouldn't, however, miss Purpura.  I'm not saying he's a terrible GM; but I can say this: I miss Gerry.

I'll be interested to see what he does with this mess next year.

[littlevisigoth]

Being at the game, I don't really have a problem with any of the moves.  I think sometimes Phil's a little too conservative with catchers, keeping Munson in at first, which meant taking out Scott, but Lamb's already on the bench, Biggio's already on the bench, and Bruntlett's in Round Rock.  There's no other emergency catcher should one be needed.  I don't think the switches that brought Lane and Ensberg can be faulted, being that Phil was trying to take advantage of opportunities to put an end to the game much earlier.

I hope I don't sound too much like an apologist.  On that front, I'll go ahead and say he should have let Miller pitch the 8th with the two lefties starting off, then brought Wheeler in for the 9th.  Having Lidge pitch the 9th is about the only obviously objectionable move he made, and maybe part of that comes from above.  Finally he's taking a stand on Lidge.  No more in 1-run games (is kinda how I read "bullpen by committee").

[Alkie]

Purpura or Garner?

[MusicMan]

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Purpura or Garner?

Purpura.  We know what Garner can do with these particular players, which is to practice Zen meditation to avoid screaming, "What fucking lineup do you want?  I have TWO guys on the team that can hit the goddamn ball!!!"

[JGrave]

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But you know what, part of that is Purpura's fault.  He is giving Garner those players to manage.

This brings up something that I thought about this morning.  I very much hope Garner comes back to manage next year.  I wouldn't, however, miss Purpura.  I'm not saying he's a terrible GM; but I can say this: I miss Gerry.

I'll be interested to see what he does with this mess next year.

He inherited a pretty big payroll without a lot of wriggle room.

[Alkie]

I'm not saying Purpura has me jumping up and down, screaming "you MORON!" or anything, I just don't think he's good enough to be steering a team with a $100m+ payroll.  Let him practice somewhere else first.  

I want Gerry back.  Who else wants to buy the team with me?

[pravata]

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Quote:

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But you know what, part of that is Purpura's fault.  He is giving Garner those players to manage.

This brings up something that I thought about this morning.  I very much hope Garner comes back to manage next year.  I wouldn't, however, miss Purpura.  I'm not saying he's a terrible GM; but I can say this: I miss Gerry.

I'll be interested to see what he does with this mess next year.

He inherited a pretty big payroll without a lot of wriggle room.

We're going there?  They haven't spent enough?

[MusicMan]

I've got $2.  I'm in.

[BudGirl]

Quote:
Being at the game, I don't really have a problem with any of the moves.  I think sometimes Phil's a little too conservative with catchers, keeping Munson in at first, which meant taking out Scott, but Lamb's already on the bench, Biggio's already on the bench, and Bruntlett's in Round Rock.  There's no other emergency catcher should one be needed.  I don't think the switches that brought Lane and Ensberg can be faulted, being that Phil was trying to take advantage of opportunities to put an end to the game much earlier.

I hope I don't sound too much like an apologist.  On that front, I'll go ahead and say he should have let Miller pitch the 8th with the two lefties starting off, then brought Wheeler in for the 9th.  Having Lidge pitch the 9th is about the only obviously objectionable move he made, and maybe part of that comes from above.  Finally he's taking a stand on Lidge.  No more in 1-run games (is kinda how I read "bullpen by committee").

Qualls pitched the 7th, so you wanted him in the 8th?  Miller cleaned up what Lidge left in the 9th.

[Alkie]

Quote:
I've got $2.  I'm in.

If everyone here put in $2, we could afford to rent out the SpeedPitch for the night.  That's almost like buying the team.

We can do this, folks!

[JGrave]

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Quote:

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But you know what, part of that is Purpura's fault.  He is giving Garner those players to manage.

This brings up something that I thought about this morning.  I very much hope Garner comes back to manage next year.  I wouldn't, however, miss Purpura.  I'm not saying he's a terrible GM; but I can say this: I miss Gerry.

I'll be interested to see what he does with this mess next year.

He inherited a pretty big payroll without a lot of wriggle room.

We're going there?  They haven't spent enough?

No.  They've spent plenty but when he inherited the team, the payroll was high and there wasn't a whole lot of moves he could've made anyway.

[littlevisigoth]

Quote:

Quote:
Being at the game, I don't really have a problem with any of the moves.  I think sometimes Phil's a little too conservative with catchers, keeping Munson in at first, which meant taking out Scott, but Lamb's already on the bench, Biggio's already on the bench, and Bruntlett's in Round Rock.  There's no other emergency catcher should one be needed.  I don't think the switches that brought Lane and Ensberg can be faulted, being that Phil was trying to take advantage of opportunities to put an end to the game much earlier.

I hope I don't sound too much like an apologist.  On that front, I'll go ahead and say he should have let Miller pitch the 8th with the two lefties starting off, then brought Wheeler in for the 9th.  Having Lidge pitch the 9th is about the only obviously objectionable move he made, and maybe part of that comes from above.  Finally he's taking a stand on Lidge.  No more in 1-run games (is kinda how I read "bullpen by committee").

Qualls pitched the 7th, so you wanted him in the 8th?  Miller cleaned up what Lidge left in the 9th.

i was mistaken, Wheeler only faced one lefty in the 8th... Mabry.  Still, though, Miller could have been the one to pitch the 8th, allowing Wheeler to pitch the 9th.

[mihoba]

Quote:
That's not really within Garner's control.

True, but it IS in his control what players he leaves out there. He took out Scott and Huff early, playing for the one inning win. Didn't happen.

Was Garner pressing today or what? Bringing the infield in in the first (and second) innings at home was strange for him I thought.

[Golden Sombrero]

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Sorry, I forgot that Garner has no accountability to whether the team wins or loses.

The old adage says that a manager cannot win a game, but he can lose one.  Last night Garner did nothing to lose the game, other than go to his closer in a 1-run game in the 9th.  The only thing Garner could be accused of doing wrong was not dumping Lidge a day earlier.

Garner did take out Luke and the Huff as part of double switches.  I understand what he was doing there, but taking a lot of oomph out  of your lineup does come back to haunt you.

[ybbodeus]

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Miller cleaned up what Lidge left in the 9th.

Betcha never thought you'd read THAT here...