NonBaseball: Military Recruitment Meeting

[CrawfordBoxes]

Hey guys I'm going into my Senior year of High Schoo, The Navy contacted me today and asked if I'd come in for a meeting tomorrow & I said sure. I have no intention of joining but he insisted that I at least see what they have to offer. I know going to Annapolis and getting an Ivy League education is very prestigious but as of right now that's not what I want to do. Has any one of you guys ever sat down and talked with a recruiter- If so what have the had to say? Or do any of you have experience in the Navy w/ college and stuff.

Thanks, Joe

[HudsonHawk]

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Hey guys I'm going into my Senior year of High Schoo, The Navy contacted me today and asked if I'd come in for a meeting tomorrow & I said sure. I have no intention of joining but he insisted that I at least see what they have to offer. I know going to Annapolis and getting an Ivy League education is very prestigious but as of right now that's not what I want to do. Has any one of you guys ever sat down and talked with a recruiter- If so what have the had to say? Or do any of you have experience in the Navy w/ college and stuff.

Thanks, Joe

A good friend of mine from HS went to the Academy at Annapolis (which is not in the Ivy League, by the way), and he loved it.  Is this what this is seriously about?  Going to the Academy?  Typically I don't think recruiters do that kind of thing.  You have to be appointed to the Academy by a Congressman.

[CrawfordBoxes]

Oh yeah I know, I'm not saying I would be going to Annapolis because it is hard to get in...and it is considered and Ivy League education.

[BizidyDizidy]

Just to add about annapolis (which I also doubt this is about) - one of my best friends go there, and while it is an amazing experience of it's own kind, it also causes you to miss out on what you might call a normal college experience. A number of midshipmen I have talked to have been regretful on that score. A nicer compromise might be an ROTC program somewhere.

[CJM]

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...and it is considered and Ivy League education.

What on earth would make you think that?  
 Link

[HudsonHawk]

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and it is considered and Ivy League education.

No it's not.  

Ivy League consists of:

Brown
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Penn
Princeton
Yale

The service academies are fine academic institutions, but they are not in the Ivy League.

[BizidyDizidy]

Maybe he means on par with the standard of the ivy league, althought that is probably a stretch as well for the service academies.

[HudsonHawk]

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Maybe he means on par with the standard of the ivy league, althought that is probably a stretch as well for the service academies.

I guess.  But the USNA is not Ivy League.  Ask ToddTheBod, he's an Ivy Leaguer...Penn, IIRC.

[BizidyDizidy]

I agree (as a decided non-Ivy Leaguer).

[Rebel Jew]

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Hey guys I'm going into my Senior year of High Schoo, The Navy contacted me today and asked if I'd come in for a meeting tomorrow & I said sure. I have no intention of joining but he insisted that I at least see what they have to offer. I know going to Annapolis and getting an Ivy League education is very prestigious but as of right now that's not what I want to do. Has any one of you guys ever sat down and talked with a recruiter- If so what have the had to say? Or do any of you have experience in the Navy w/ college and stuff.

Thanks, Joe

i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

[Rebel Jew]

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I agree (as a decided non-Ivy Leaguer).

but you go to stansbury, the hawwwwvuuuuhhhd of the west.

on a side note bizdiz:  do you ever eat at kirk's steakburgers (specifically the one in that yellow strip center off el camino real)?

[BizidyDizidy]

On occasion - they are probably among the best burgers around here, but I think that is probably just due to lack of solid competition.

(The shopping center is called Town and Country, btw).

[CrawfordBoxes]

Yeah, I had just heard it was considered an Ivy League Education...sorry about that, I was told wrong. Yeah I agree with most of you guys- I'm probably going to call him and tell him in the morning that I'm not interested.

Thanks for your input guys & Let's keep the winning ways going tomorrow in Chicago!

Joe

[EasTexAstro]

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i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

Just my opinion, but that was quite offensive.

[Uncle Charlie]

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Hey guys I'm going into my Senior year of High Schoo, The Navy contacted me today and asked if I'd come in for a meeting tomorrow & I said sure. I have no intention of joining but he insisted that I at least see what they have to offer. I know going to Annapolis and getting an Ivy League education is very prestigious but as of right now that's not what I want to do. Has any one of you guys ever sat down and talked with a recruiter- If so what have the had to say? Or do any of you have experience in the Navy w/ college and stuff.

Thanks, Joe

I was recruited by the Navy during my soph. year of college, where I was a Chem. Eng. major, to be a nuke engineer (taking care of the nuke cores on subs).  They offered to pay for my last 2 years of college and then nuke school, and of course a big bonus in exchange for some years of no privacy and long periods of time underwater with little to no communication with family.  They flew me out to San Diego and showed me a boomer (missle sub) and a fast attack (essentially a fighter) and a carrier.  It was all pretty cool, but it after touring it I just couldn't get past the lack of privacy and cramped space, especially on the fast attack.  I respected those who made the choice to join though.

Being in HS, my guess is that they are more interested in the enlistment route for you.  But keep in mind if you are interested, there are ways in AFTER you go to college.

[BizidyDizidy]

Don't worry, Browneye is gonna kick his ass soon enough.

[EasTexAstro]

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Yeah I agree with most of you guys- I'm probably going to call him and tell him in the morning that I'm not interested.

Thanks for your input guys & Let's keep the winning ways going tomorrow in Chicago!

Joe

Good luck to you in whatever you decide. If you are not interested, call him and let him know. As a recruiter, he has been rejected more than once and will not be offended, but it never hurts to give a proper call. It says more about you than the deceision and will be appreciated.

[strosrays]

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The service academies are fine academic institutions, but they are not in the Ivy League.

Yes, Lamar U. is kind of in the same boat, so to speak, as the Naval Academy.  A fine academic institution, but not considered the Ivy League, for some reason.  Water Hyacinth League, perhaps?

I don't know anyone who went to Annapolis, but one of my running buddies from HS did go to the Merchant Marine Academy right after graduation.  It's in Piney Point, MD, on a peninsula in Chesapeake Bay.  Beautiful campus, and not quite as strict as the navy, I gather.  The times I went up to visit, we would go into Baltimore and basically stay drunk for three days.  I woke up one time at 4 A.M. on the floor of someone we had met that night's house, and I didn't know where I was, but I thought I might be in Canada.

So that's always an option.  Seriously, though, my friend worked his way up through the hierarchy and ended up with his own vessel for awhile, a container ship, I think.  Then he "retired" at 40 and moved to Seattle and opened a marine salvage business, and hit it big.  He may not have years of service to his country to look back on, but I am sure that is partly assuaged by the view from his house, which overlooks Puget Sound or one of those bodies of water up there.

Remember, Merchant Marine Academy.  As far as distinguished grads, I think Otto Graham went there (Browns QB and NFL coach.)

[Rebel Jew]

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i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

Just my opinion, but that was quite offensive.

i don't know how to say it without sounding offensive, but i just think that for some random HS kid, especially now considering the many US foreign entanglements, a lengthy military commitment can unknowingly take away a lot of important years.  i hate to see kids choose such a commitment when they are too young or too inexperienced to fully understand what they're getting into.  i agree with UC, if you want to do it then do it after college when you have more of a sense of how you want your life to go.

[LonghornCDR]

Private message inbound.  I did Navy ROTC at Texas.  I loved it and I've been about 90% happy with my career thus far.  

That being said... don't believe a word the recruiters tell you!

[Rebel Jew]

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On occasion - they are probably among the best burgers around here, but I think that is probably just due to lack of solid competition.

(The shopping center is called Town and Country, btw).

i think they'd be the best even with solid competition (and there is if you factor in some of the burger joints in frisco).  there's a great picture on the wall in the dining room wall at that kirk's where it's this cartoon picture of the football coaches at whatever high school's around there, and beside one of the coaches (the classic kind of HS football coach with the classic HS football shorts and the whistle around his neck) is a caption that says "let's go, shittles!"  i'm not sure exactly what that means, but it makes me laugh every time i see it.

[EasTexAstro]

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i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

Just my opinion, but that was quite offensive.

i don't know how to say it without sounding offensive, but i just think that for some random HS kid, especially now considering the many US foreign entanglements, a lengthy military commitment can unknowingly take away a lot of important years.  i hate to see kids choose such a commitment when they are too young or too inexperienced to fully understand what they're getting into.  i agree with UC, if you want to do it then do it after college when you have more of a sense of how you want your life to go.

I wouldn't try to encourage a young person that I don't know in either direction. For some, the opportunities of serving their country and learning a skill, or getting an education, might be their best chance in life. Others might not have the dedication at this point in their life, or their current point of view, to that sort of commitment to help them or the millitary.

I have no problem with that and never will.

Some poeple really see the need and have the desire to help other people out and/or to serve. I don't have a problem with that.

I hate to see where someone trivializes the situation into trying to find a beer as a goal in life. As you said, there are many good people that have decided to serve. There are many good people who didn't. I hate to see anyone make light of either decision.

[LonghornCDR]

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i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

Just my opinion, but that was quite offensive.

i don't know how to say it without sounding offensive, but i just think that for some random HS kid, especially now considering the many US foreign entanglements, a lengthy military commitment can unknowingly take away a lot of important years.  i hate to see kids choose such a commitment when they are too young or too inexperienced to fully understand what they're getting into.  i agree with UC, if you want to do it then do it after college when you have more of a sense of how you want your life to go.

  In a nation of nearly 300 million, we have a military with an end-strength of less than 2 million (including reserves).  So if 99 out of a 100 kids listen to you, we'll still be more than OK.

[Rebel Jew]

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i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

Just my opinion, but that was quite offensive.

i don't know how to say it without sounding offensive, but i just think that for some random HS kid, especially now considering the many US foreign entanglements, a lengthy military commitment can unknowingly take away a lot of important years.  i hate to see kids choose such a commitment when they are too young or too inexperienced to fully understand what they're getting into.  i agree with UC, if you want to do it then do it after college when you have more of a sense of how you want your life to go.

I wouldn't try to encourage a young person that I don't know in either direction. For some, the opportunities of serving their country and learning a skill, or getting an education, might be their best chance in life. Others might not have the dedication at this point in their life, or their current point of view, to that sort of commitment to help them or the millitary.

I have no problem with that and never will.

Some poeple really see the need and have the desire to help other people out and/or to serve. I don't have a problem with that.

I hate to see where someone trivializes the situation into trying to find a beer as a goal in life. As you said, there are many good people that have decided to serve. There are many good people who didn't. I hate to see anyone make light of either decision.

i wasn't saying that finding a beer was necessarily a goal in life, only that it is an example of the kind of dumb rite-of-passage experience that i think teenagers should be dealing with right now.  i think that being thrust into combat in the middle east is more than a teenager should have to deal with.

[pravata]

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i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

Just my opinion, but that was quite offensive.

i don't know how to say it without sounding offensive, but i just think that for some random HS kid, especially now considering the many US foreign entanglements, a lengthy military commitment can unknowingly take away a lot of important years.  i hate to see kids choose such a commitment when they are too young or too inexperienced to fully understand what they're getting into.  i agree with UC, if you want to do it then do it after college when you have more of a sense of how you want your life to go.

I wouldn't try to encourage a young person that I don't know in either direction. For some, the opportunities of serving their country and learning a skill, or getting an education, might be their best chance in life. Others might not have the dedication at this point in their life, or their current point of view, to that sort of commitment to help them or the millitary.

I have no problem with that and never will.

Some poeple really see the need and have the desire to help other people out and/or to serve. I don't have a problem with that.

I hate to see where someone trivializes the situation into trying to find a beer as a goal in life. As you said, there are many good people that have decided to serve. There are many good people who didn't. I hate to see anyone make light of either decision.

Friend of mine, some time back, was about to go sign up for the Navy. The night before we were having a send off, and all of a sudden he smacks his head and says "Bullets! What the fuck was I thinking?"  Bottom line, there's likely to be bullets.

[Ty in Tampa]

1976 - Sure, go for it.

2006 - Eh, not so good.

[NeilT]

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Hey guys I'm going into my Senior year of High Schoo, The Navy contacted me today and asked if I'd come in for a meeting tomorrow & I said sure. I have no intention of joining but he insisted that I at least see what they have to offer. I know going to Annapolis and getting an Ivy League education is very prestigious but as of right now that's not what I want to do. Has any one of you guys ever sat down and talked with a recruiter- If so what have the had to say? Or do any of you have experience in the Navy w/ college and stuff.

Thanks, Joe

Is this a joke?  

To get into annapolis, or west point, or the air force academy,  you'll need great grades, tremendous test scores with aptitudes for mathematics and the sciences, some sort of reasonably succesful athletics, and demonstrated leadership.  Eagle scout doesn't hurt, either.  

One of my daughter's friends went to Annapolis last year.  Instead of starting in August, they start in June, and from what he told my wife it's hell.  I'd do it in a heart beat, if I weren't old and fat and lousy at adding 2+2.  

Really, seriously, if you are in high school, and they are talking to you about Annapolis, why don't you ask the recruiter if you can talk to a few midshipman about what it's like?  If Annapolis isn't in the deal (and that's not easy), there's much to be said for the military.  There's also much to be said for college fraternities.  I avoided both, but also survived.

[strosrays]

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i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

Just my opinion, but that was quite offensive.

i don't know how to say it without sounding offensive, but i just think that for some random HS kid, especially now considering the many US foreign entanglements, a lengthy military commitment can unknowingly take away a lot of important years.  i hate to see kids choose such a commitment when they are too young or too inexperienced to fully understand what they're getting into.  i agree with UC, if you want to do it then do it after college when you have more of a sense of how you want your life to go.

I wouldn't try to encourage a young person that I don't know in either direction. For some, the opportunities of serving their country and learning a skill, or getting an education, might be their best chance in life. Others might not have the dedication at this point in their life, or their current point of view, to that sort of commitment to help them or the millitary.

I have no problem with that and never will.

Some poeple really see the need and have the desire to help other people out and/or to serve. I don't have a problem with that.

I hate to see where someone trivializes the situation into trying to find a beer as a goal in life. As you said, there are many good people that have decided to serve. There are many good people who didn't. I hate to see anyone make light of either decision.

FWIW, I took JT's beer quote more or less the way he says he intended it; anyway, at 18, beer is pretty important.  

The only thing that bothers me is when enlisting is held out as purely an economic option, like deciding whether to go to business school or major in liberal arts.  Some of the recruitment ads play up this angle.  Of course, most people who enlist probably do so at least partly for the bonuses and free education and whatnot, especially if their other options coming out of HS for those things aren't very promising.

But I'll bet you don't have too many potential Ivy Leaguers telling their moms they want to join up so they can be an engineer, and be a man.  I don't particularly like the idea of the privileged class sending the middle and lower class kids off to fight wars, while their own are sheltered on an Ivy League campus somewhere.  But I believe statistically that is exactly the direction things are moving in.  

I have thought from time to time an obligatory two-year hitch for everyone who is able, between HS and college, might be a good thing for the country and the kid.  Not serving just in traditional military roles, but also public works, etc.  Of course, that's easy for me to say, now.

[Browneye]

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Hey guys I'm going into my Senior year of High Schoo, The Navy contacted me today and asked if I'd come in for a meeting tomorrow & I said sure. I have no intention of joining but he insisted that I at least see what they have to offer. I know going to Annapolis and getting an Ivy League education is very prestigious but as of right now that's not what I want to do. Has any one of you guys ever sat down and talked with a recruiter- If so what have the had to say? Or do any of you have experience in the Navy w/ college and stuff.

Thanks, Joe

STOP, STOP.... DO NOT LISTEN TO A RECRUITER. DO NOT LISTEN TO A RECRUITER. Neil is correct about Annapolis. Great school, the recruiter is bullshitting you. The military is a great way to go but, go to college first and go in as an officer. There are only so many jobs as an elisted man you  can use as a civilian. I think every kid today should serve  in the mil but you need to be smart or you will find yourself guarding an airplane in the freezing snow before you know it. If you are serious about this or you dont have the money for college, let me know and I can give you my number and walk you through this. I can also set you up with someone who will take care of you and help you keep from pumping shit out of airplanes in Greenland. Make sure you join for ALL the right reasons. #1 has to be because you want to serve your country. But remember, that recruiter can NOT get you into Annapolis. Man these recruiters are getting desperate, whats next, a trip to the fucking moon.

[HudsonHawk]

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I can also set you up with someone who will take care of you and help you keep from pumping shit out of airplanes in Greenland.  

I really want to go to Greenland.  That's pretty high on my list of places to go before I die.  Seriously.

[homer]

 

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The military is a great way to go but, go to college first and go in as an officer.

If you are not going to one of the service academies, this is probably the best advice you will ever receive concerning military service.

[Browneye]

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Don't worry, Browneye is gonna kick his ass soon enough.

Bizi D. Sorry I am late.

Mr. Trum...DUDE!!!! Are you fucking kidding me? I was chasing skirt and beer in Europe before I was old enough to drink. But, I would not encourage joining based on all the ladies and beer from all over the world, but if you are going to base it off of having a good time, well, there is no comparison. Life in the barracks is not what you would think, In fact they dont even call it that anymore. I lived in dorms and had a blast. I flew all over the world, I got to be on the field for a World Series standing next to Thome. Ive been on airforce one, been in a bar fight in Spain,ran away from hookers in Singapore, played rugby in Australia, got lost in the mountains in Germany,and Got drunk with the Russians in Bosnia when we had no idea what the other was saying.
But that isnt why I joined. I joined to serve my country and to make something out of a young broke Houston kid from Sharpstown. I think I made up for the missed frat life, and this kid should not decide one way or the other based on getting fucked up. But, dont worry, the military life is just as wild when you are single.

[Browneye]

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i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

Just my opinion, but that was quite offensive.

i don't know how to say it without sounding offensive, but i just think that for some random HS kid, especially now considering the many US foreign entanglements, a lengthy military commitment can unknowingly take away a lot of important years.  i hate to see kids choose such a commitment when they are too young or too inexperienced to fully understand what they're getting into.  i agree with UC, if you want to do it then do it after college when you have more of a sense of how you want your life to go.

I wouldn't try to encourage a young person that I don't know in either direction. For some, the opportunities of serving their country and learning a skill, or getting an education, might be their best chance in life. Others might not have the dedication at this point in their life, or their current point of view, to that sort of commitment to help them or the millitary.

I have no problem with that and never will.

Some poeple really see the need and have the desire to help other people out and/or to serve. I don't have a problem with that.

I hate to see where someone trivializes the situation into trying to find a beer as a goal in life. As you said, there are many good people that have decided to serve. There are many good people who didn't. I hate to see anyone make light of either decision.

i wasn't saying that finding a beer was necessarily a goal in life, only that it is an example of the kind of dumb rite-of-passage experience that i think teenagers should be dealing with right now.  i think that being thrust into combat in the middle east is more than a teenager should have to deal with.

so is watching your dad plunge to his death on 9/11 or watching nazis rape your mother, or your great uncle (my great uncle at 18) get killed when his ship got torpedoed by a Japanese sub. But if it wasnt for those KIDS, and kids like them, we wouldnt be enjoying our freedoms.

[Browneye]

Well said.

[Browneye]

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I can also set you up with someone who will take care of you and help you keep from pumping shit out of airplanes in Greenland.  

I really want to go to Greenland.  That's pretty high on my list of places to go before I die.  Seriously.

Bring a jacket. I would try Iceland, its much much better.

[CrawfordBoxes]

Yeah, thanks for all the insight guys. I never really thought much about serving and as of now that wasn't my intention I was just posting saying I got a call from a recruiter wanting me to have a meeting w/ me. He told me to bring my SS card and stuff and I just felt he was getting a little out of hand I mean I'll talk to you but I don't want to sign abunch of stuff when I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School. But my dream has always been to go to Texas because I'm a big longhorn fan & love the school. Thanks for all the help though guys.

[pravata]

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Yeah, thanks for all the insight guys. I never really thought much about serving and as of now that wasn't my intention I was just posting saying I got a call from a recruiter wanting me to have a meeting w/ me. He told me to bring my SS card and stuff and I just felt he was getting a little out of hand I mean I'll talk to you but I don't want to sign abunch of stuff when I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School. But my dream has always been to go to Texas because I'm a big longhorn fan & love the school. Thanks for all the help though guys.

OHHHH Maaaaaaaaaan. You might want to consider frequenting another baseball site.  If I could suggest, possible the Royals.  You're going to have more luck there from now on.

[JimR]

Joey, i think we've all come to expect this kind of stuff from you. let someone else win your freedom for you and protect you while you go get drunk.

this post was disgusting, and maybe so are you.

[HudsonHawk]

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Bring a jacket. I would try Iceland, its much much better.

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder.  I'm going for geology, not the beer.

[HudsonHawk]

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I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School.

If your GPA isn't perfect and you're not in the top one or two of your class, and class president, you probably wouldn't stand much of a chance.

[Browneye]

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Bring a jacket. I would try Iceland, its much much better.

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder.  I'm going for geology, not the beer.

I was not refering to the beer. I was refering to the weather. Those two countries should change names. Iceland is more green and more scenic the Greenland. Both places are incredible, and it sounds like you wont be disapointed.

[Browneye]

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I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School.

If your GPA isn't perfect and you're not in the top one or two of your class, and class president, you probably wouldn't stand much of a chance.

It also helps and is highly encouraged to have a letter of recommendation from a senator or congressman.

[HudsonHawk]

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I was not refering to the beer. I was refering to the weather. Those two countries should change names. Iceland is more green and more scenic the Greenland. Both places are incredible, and it sounds like you wont be disapointed.

Yeah, though I've never been to either, I've studied their histories a bit. As an undergrad, I double majored in geology and history and actually studied Viking history quite a bit. The history of the Vikings in Iceland and Greenland (and North America) is fascinating.

Interestingly, there was a show on the History Channel tonight about Vikings.

[Browneye]

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Quote:

I was not refering to the beer. I was refering to the weather. Those two countries should change names. Iceland is more green and more scenic the Greenland. Both places are incredible, and it sounds like you wont be disapointed.

Yeah, though I've never been to either, I've studied their histories a bit. As an undergrad, I double majored in geology and history and actually studied Viking history quite a bit. The history of the Vikings in Iceland and Greenland (and North America) is fascinating.

Interestingly, there was a show on the History Channel tonight about Vikings.

The people there are wonderfull

[HudsonHawk]

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It also helps and is highly encouraged to have a letter of recommendation from a senator or congressman.

It's required.  Only a Congressman or the Vice President can appoint you to a service academy.

[Browneye]

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It also helps and is highly encouraged to have a letter of recommendation from a senator or congressman.

It's required.  Only a Congressman or the Vice President can appoint you to a service academy.

I thought so, but I wasnt certain if that was still the case

[UpTooLate]

Quote:
Yeah, thanks for all the insight guys. I never really thought much about serving and as of now that wasn't my intention I was just posting saying I got a call from a recruiter wanting me to have a meeting w/ me. He told me to bring my SS card and stuff and I just felt he was getting a little out of hand I mean I'll talk to you but I don't want to sign abunch of stuff when I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing.

I think you have answered your own question.  ETA's advice is the best in this circumstance: call the recruiter and say thanks but no thanks.  He'll get over it.

I have huge respect for the people that join the services to serve our country.  I almost joined the Navy several times before, during and after college.  I kept thinking of all the civilian perks I would be missing if I did so and always talked myself out of it.  I regret that now, because regardless whether I liked it or hated it, I would have at least done it.

[HudsonHawk]

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It also helps and is highly encouraged to have a letter of recommendation from a senator or congressman.

It's required.  Only a Congressman or the Vice President can appoint you to a service academy.

I thought so, but I wasnt certain if that was still the case

Actually, I think that's not the case anymore, though I think it used to be.  The list of potential nominees now includes the President, the Secretary of the Navy, and Medal of Honor winners and their children.  The overwhelming majority are still by Congressmen though.  Each Congressman is allowed to have five students he/she has appointed at any given time.

[HudsonHawk]

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I regret that now, because regardless whether I liked it or hated it, I would have at least done it.

My dad always says something similar about his military service.  He says he'd never do it again, but wouldn't trade the experience for anything.  He was a paratrooper in the 101st Airborne.

[Rebel Jew]

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Joey, i think we've all come to expect this kind of stuff from you. let someone else win your freedom for you and protect you while you go get drunk.

this post was disgusting, and maybe so are you.

oh jim, give me a break.  why does every conversation about the military have to get back to the old "if it wasn't for them, you'd be eating sauerkraut and wearing lederhosen" type of argument?

why is it good for some seventeen year-old kid to get manipulated into signing his life over to an army recruiter at a shopping mall?  how much traveling the world and having fun is that kid going to do while his country is embroiled in a protracted war in the middle east?

[tophfar]

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how much traveling the world and having fun is that kid going to do while his country is embroiled in a protracted war in the middle east?

i'm thinking you should rethink your perceptions of what joining the armed forces actually entails.

this might alleviate some of your confusion.

[NeilT]

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I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School.

If your GPA isn't perfect and you're not in the top one or two of your class, and class president, you probably wouldn't stand much of a chance.

I'm not sure your academics are too different from our family friend, but he really, really wanted to go to Annapolis.  From my wife's talk with him last fall, I'm not sure he really, really wanted to stay at Annapolis.  That's probably some college freshmanness and some shock at how physically rigorous the naval academy turned out to be.  

Texas is great, by the way.  Many of us survived it.  If you are interested in Annapolis, though, and you're not career, it will be a real plus for future jobs.  My firm, for instance, ranks military service and the academies at the top of the list for employment.  Harvard and Stanford are great--they tell us you're smart.  The academies tell us you're smart, know how to deal with people, and have character.  I doubt that we're unique in that.

[Limey]

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I have huge respect for the people that join the services to serve our country.  I almost joined the Navy several times before, during and after college.  I kept thinking of all the civilian perks I would be missing if I did so and always talked myself out of it.  I regret that now, because regardless whether I liked it or hated it, I would have at least done it.

Late in my high school education I was getting fast-tracked by the RAF to flight school.  Trouble is, by that age my enthusiasm for joining the military had waned.  Partly because of my inate disrespect for authority, and partly because very few make it to fast jets and I didn't want to spend my career flying cargo planes full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong.

I am torn about that decision to this day.  I am very happy in life right now, so that makes it easier to dismiss such regrets.  But I definitely missed out on seeing action in the Falklands War and Gulf War #1.  On the flip side, I definitely avoided seeing action in the Falklands War and Gulf War #1.

[Limey]

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i'm thinking you should rethink your perceptions of what joining the armed forces actually entails.

this might alleviate some of your confusion.

I think the issue with many people (over 60% of the population per latest opinion polls) is that the current war is huge mistake.  Doesn't lessen the honor of those serving in it, but it will give pause to many who would otherwise sign up.

Military service is honorable, but this conflict is less and less so by the day.  And if you sign up now, you will see this conflict first hand.

[davek]

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i know there's a lot of fine people in the military, and that the military can offer many things, but in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can.  enjoy your fun years; don't waste them in some third world country halfway across the globe.  i say blow off this navy guy, and work on more important things-- like finding somebody of age to buy beer for you and your friends.  just my opinion.

Just my opinion, but that was quite offensive.

I wholeheartedly agree...

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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i'm thinking you should rethink your perceptions of what joining the armed forces actually entails.

this might alleviate some of your confusion.

I think the issue with many people (over 60% of the population per latest opinion polls) is that the current war is huge mistake.  Doesn't lessen the honor of those serving in it, but it will give pause to many who would otherwise sign up.

Military service is honorable, but this conflict is less and less so by the day.  And if you sign up now, you will see this conflict first hand.

While recognizing the accuracy of your first statement, I have friends in Iraq, both as military personnel as well as private contractor.  All would strongly disagree with your assessment of the "honor" of the conflict in Iraq.  The stories they tell me are life changing and make me regret my immaturity (also "authority issues") I had at that age.    I respect your right to this opinion.  However, what I see of this generation of people enlisting and serving, gives me hope that we won't have the same high percentage of "me-first" individuals, as I currently encounter in my generation (and I'm only 32).

[Trey]

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I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School.

If your GPA isn't perfect and you're not in the top one or two of your class, and class president, you probably wouldn't stand much of a chance.

Also, if you're planning to start this "fall" (this month, probably) and you don't have an appointment, you probably aren't going to get one unless someone drops out.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I could never make the commitment. I wasn't aware of the long term benefit of anything at age 17. Some people already know what they want to do with the rest of their lives at 17/18, I didn't have a clue. Military service might have helped me figure that out. At least better than how I spent the 5 or 6 ensuing years--flunking out of college and a few menial jobs. I can't say I regret not having served but I feel as though I missed out on something beneficial, valuable, worthy, and honorable.

[strosrays]

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CrawfordBoxes said:
Yeah, thanks for all the insight guys. I never really thought much about serving and as of now that wasn't my intention I was just posting saying I got a call from a recruiter wanting me to have a meeting w/ me. He told me to bring my SS card and stuff and I just felt he was getting a little out of hand I mean I'll talk to you but I don't want to sign abunch of stuff when I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School. But my dream has always been to go to Texas because I'm a big longhorn fan & love the school. Thanks for all the help though guys.

Does this mean you are in the top 3% of your class?  If so, my advice would be to keep that little tidbit to yourself.

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HudsonHawk said:
Yeah, though I've never been to either, I've studied their histories a bit. As an undergrad, I double majored in geology and history and actually studied Viking history quite a bit. The history of the Vikings in Iceland and Greenland (and North America) is fascinating.

I was once assigned the poetic (Elder) part of the Edda in a world lit class.  Going in I was none too enthusiastic about it, but I actually enjoyed the stories quite a bit.

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Browneye said:
The people there are wonderfull

For most people, the reference point is Bjork and not much else.

[hostros7]

I have to agree with you on this one.  You can slapdick your way through an ivy smoking and taking yoga classes if you are so inclined, but service academies you really have to do on the up and up if you are going to make it through.  Not to say I would personally want that experience, but those who make it through, generally, deserve the accolades and some respect.

If you were to ask my advice though on the absolute BEST way to proceed if you are a younger person contemplating the military and are very talented, it would be not to go to a service academy.  My advice would be to go to an ivy league school and then do your best to get into the officer training program during one of your summers.  

That being said, 4.3 gpa and top 100 at Pearland alone isn't going to get you into any service academy or ivy league school by itself.  You would need that, some athletics, leadership positions in several different types of activities, community service, and upper 90s percentile in test scores...probably just to be considered.  

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I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School.

If your GPA isn't perfect and you're not in the top one or two of your class, and class president, you probably wouldn't stand much of a chance.

I'm not sure your academics are too different from our family friend, but he really, really wanted to go to Annapolis.  From my wife's talk with him last fall, I'm not sure he really, really wanted to stay at Annapolis.  That's probably some college freshmanness and some shock at how physically rigorous the naval academy turned out to be.  

Texas is great, by the way.  Many of us survived it.  If you are interested in Annapolis, though, and you're not career, it will be a real plus for future jobs.  My firm, for instance, ranks military service and the academies at the top of the list for employment.  Harvard and Stanford are great--they tell us you're smart.  The academies tell us you're smart, know how to deal with people, and have character.  I doubt that we're unique in that.

[Limey]

Quote:
While recognizing the accuracy of your first statement, I have friends in Iraq, both as military personnel as well as private contractor.  All would strongly disagree with your assessment of the "honor" of the conflict in Iraq.  The stories they tell me are life changing and make me regret my immaturity (also "authority issues") I had at that age.    I respect your right to this opinion.  However, what I see of this generation of people enlisting and serving, gives me hope that we won't have the same high percentage of "me-first" individuals, as I currently encounter in my generation (and I'm only 32).

Just to clarify, I am in no way impugning the honor of those serving.  I am referring to the questionable judgement/intentions (IMHO) of those who put them there.  The true conflict was in Afganistan, which was never finished due to the asset-stripping for the Iraq invasion, and is now slipping away.  Oh, and Osama bin Laden continues to roam free, in case we'd all forgotten who started this whole thing.

Anyone wonder why the focus shifted?  Here's a clue:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." ? George W. Bush, Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." ? George W. Bush, March 13, 2002 (exactly 6 months later)

[WulawHorn]

I wholeheartedly agree wtih the earlier post about everyone should have to serve a compulsory year or two in the military/public works etc between high school and college.

I certainly know it would have benefited me.  I went to UT on full ride, national merit scholarship, and after my first semester I needed to make a 3.8 to keep my sholly.  If I didn't I already had the army papers ready to go, as I figured if I was immature enough to piss away a full ride I shouldn't be in college (I wasn't in any academic trouble and wouldn't have had to leave- but I would have proven myself an idiot).
I survived on the dot and never lost my scholly.  

In law school I interned in the JAG corps one summer and really enjoyed parts of it and really hated other parts.  I left with a tremendous amount of respect for those that make it their life.  I probably would have but I was more or less engaged to a classmate that wanted nothing to do with the military, so I chose her over the military.  I sometimes regret both times I almost went into the army but ultimately didn't.  I have all manner of respect for those guys that serve.  One of my buddies from law school has been deployed over there three times.  The wankers around here that want to say that what we are doing over there is meaningless- that's certainly not what he tells us.

Now granted, there is bitching and the like about how things are being run and done etc. but that isn't anything different than any war (or peace really) that we have ever had in this country.  People in the military like to bitch about their job- just like us civilians.  By and large they understand and respect the mission over there though.  He does say that the Iraqi's are like a bunch of freaking children with their hands out and worries that they just don't get it, but I think that's to be expected.  He is advancing along nicely and I'm proud to know him.

Had another one of my friends that went to law school as a captain in the marine corps.  You could tell he missed it everyday.  He never wanted to leave the service but he couldn't respect his Commander in Chief (clinton at the time) so he did the honorable thing and worked his ass off till his term was over and then did not re-up.  He said almost every person he knew at his same level did something simiilar.  He loved it and encouraged me to go JAG, said it would have been the best thing I ever did with my life.

I spoke with some people who I knew when I was in internship that did go on to the jag and they were turning them into soldiers as quickly as possible- not just lawyers.  That seems a little scary, but I'm sure I would have learned something from it.  The idea that you have the responsibility for people's life and death in your hand is unfathonable to me.  Some of the stories of courage, heroism and sacrifice that have come out of this war make me cry.  I think there are all sorts of things that a young person can do that is more "fun" then serving in the military but I can't think of many that would be more "rewarding"

They are better men then me in many ways and I salute them.

[Jacksonian]

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While recognizing the accuracy of your first statement, I have friends in Iraq, both as military personnel as well as private contractor.  All would strongly disagree with your assessment of the "honor" of the conflict in Iraq.  The stories they tell me are life changing and make me regret my immaturity (also "authority issues") I had at that age.    I respect your right to this opinion.  However, what I see of this generation of people enlisting and serving, gives me hope that we won't have the same high percentage of "me-first" individuals, as I currently encounter in my generation (and I'm only 32).

Just to clarify, I am in no way impugning the honor of those serving.  I am referring to the questionable judgement/intentions (IMHO) of those who put them there.  The true conflict was in Afganistan, which was never finished due to the asset-stripping for the Iraq invasion, and is now slipping away.  Oh, and Osama bin Laden continues to roam free, in case we'd all forgotten who started this whole thing.

Anyone wonder why the focus shifted?  Here's a clue:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." ? George W. Bush, Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." ? George W. Bush, March 13, 2002 (exactly 6 months later)

Let's not take another thread down this path, again.

[ASTROCREEP]

Quote:
I could never make the commitment. I wasn't aware of the long term benefit of anything at age 17. Some people already know what they want to do with the rest of their lives at 17/18, I didn't have a clue. Military service might have helped me figure that out. At least better than how I spent the 5 or 6 ensuing years--flunking out of college and a few menial jobs. I can't say I regret not having served but I feel as though I missed out on something beneficial, valuable, worthy, and honorable.

And then again you could have enlisted and got shot in the head. The point is you had the option.

Go Stros!

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Quote:
While recognizing the accuracy of your first statement, I have friends in Iraq, both as military personnel as well as private contractor.  All would strongly disagree with your assessment of the "honor" of the conflict in Iraq.  The stories they tell me are life changing and make me regret my immaturity (also "authority issues") I had at that age.    I respect your right to this opinion.  However, what I see of this generation of people enlisting and serving, gives me hope that we won't have the same high percentage of "me-first" individuals, as I currently encounter in my generation (and I'm only 32).

Just to clarify, I am in no way impugning the honor of those serving.  I am referring to the questionable judgement/intentions (IMHO) of those who put them there.  The true conflict was in Afganistan, which was never finished due to the asset-stripping for the Iraq invasion, and is now slipping away.  Oh, and Osama bin Laden continues to roam free, in case we'd all forgotten who started this whole thing.

Anyone wonder why the focus shifted?  Here's a clue:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." ? George W. Bush, Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." ? George W. Bush, March 13, 2002 (exactly 6 months later)

Limey,
I'm honestly not challenging your opinion here.  I simply recognize it as an opinion.  Well founded?  Probably.  IMO, this administration is guilty of using PR tactics to sell their strategy and then ignoring the questions challenging their  PR approach when the resulting statements prove false or unsubstantiated (I recognize tihs and I'm considered a Bush supporter by my friends).  That doesn't dismiss or negate the positive impact the people, that I know personally, see and feel as a result of their actions in Iraq.  Politics aside, how will history judge  this "moment in time"?  I haven't a clue.  We will all have to wait and see.  And we are officially off topic.  

For CB, if you aren't sure military services is what you want to do, go to college, even if you have to choose UT (Gig'em).  Experience everything you can, even if your interest is only a passing interest.  You'll figure out the rest along the way.  Anyone who tells you they had it, or have it, all figured out at 18 (if ever) is, in all likelihood, full of shit.  There are some who do, or will (at least for themselves), but they are the exception and by no means the standard to which we should all aspire.  

UT?  THat reminds me of when I was in your shoes, a mere 14 yrs ago.  A good friend of mine said to me "You are too intelligent to go to Texas A&M!".  I had to disagree, respectfully!  And I thoroughly enjoyed my time there.

[Limey]

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Let's not take another thread down this path, again.

Okey doke.

[Jacksonian]

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For CB, if you aren't sure military services is what you want to do, go to college, even if you have to choose UT (Gig'em).  Experience everything you can, even if your interest is only a passing interest.  You'll figure out the rest along the way.  Anyone who tells you they had it, or have it, all figured out at 18 (if ever) is, in all likelihood, full of shit.  There are some who do, or will (at least for themselves), but they are the exception and by no means the standard to which we should all aspire.  

~60% of college students change their major at least once.  And, many that don't wish they had.

[Jacksonian]

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Let's not take another thread down this path, again.

Okey doke.

On the other hand, The Link is an available domain.

[MusicMan]

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why does every conversation about the military have to get back to the old "if it wasn't for them, you'd be eating sauerkraut and wearing lederhosen" type of argument?

This tells me you have very little clue as to the nature of the armed forces and history.

[JimR]

and Joey does not care what happened in 1944. ancient history to him. get him another beer. he's not drunk yet.

Brokaw had the "Greatest Generation" idea exactly right. no subsequent generation would have done what they did. thank God they were there.

[pravata]

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why does every conversation about the military have to get back to the old "if it wasn't for them, you'd be eating sauerkraut and wearing lederhosen" type of argument?

This tells me you have very little clue as to the nature of the armed forces and history.

Sauerkraut, and you'd be lucky to get it, yes.  Dim sum? not likely.  Dolma? No.

[HudsonHawk]

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and Joey does not care what happened in 1944. ancient history to him. get him another beer. he's not drunk yet.

Brokaw had the "Greatest Generation" idea exactly right. no subsequent generation would have done what they did. thank God they were there.

I was dating this girl who's dad was in WWII, actually was a German POW for a while.  Anyway, we were dating when the movie Saving Private Ryan came out, and we went to see it with her dad.  Coming out of the theater, a yound slacker looking kid, shaggy hair, looked like a skate punk, came up to him and asked if he'd served in "that war".  When her dad said yes, the kid stuck his hand out and said "thank you".  The Greatest Generation indeed.  I know my gereration could not have done what they did.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Let's not take another thread down this path, again.

Okey doke.

Same here..

[MusicMan]

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and Joey does not care what happened in 1944. ancient history to him. get him another beer. he's not drunk yet.

Brokaw had the "Greatest Generation" idea exactly right. no subsequent generation would have done what they did. thank God they were there.

I was dating this girl who's dad was in WWII, actually was a German POW for a while.  Anyway, we were dating when the movie Saving Private Ryan came out, and we went to see it with her dad.  Coming out of the theater, a yound slacker looking kid, shaggy hair, looked like a skate punk, came up to him and asked if he'd served in "that war".  When her dad said yes, the kid stuck his hand out and said "thank you".  The Greatest Generation indeed.  I know my gereration could not have done what they did.

I actually didn't think of Saving Private Ryan as a particularly great movie, but I think it served a powerful purpose in making people understand just how hellish that war was.

[HudsonHawk]

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and Joey does not care what happened in 1944. ancient history to him. get him another beer. he's not drunk yet.

Brokaw had the "Greatest Generation" idea exactly right. no subsequent generation would have done what they did. thank God they were there.

I was dating this girl who's dad was in WWII, actually was a German POW for a while.  Anyway, we were dating when the movie Saving Private Ryan came out, and we went to see it with her dad.  Coming out of the theater, a yound slacker looking kid, shaggy hair, looked like a skate punk, came up to him and asked if he'd served in "that war".  When her dad said yes, the kid stuck his hand out and said "thank you".  The Greatest Generation indeed.  I know my gereration could not have done what they did.

I actually didn't think of Saving Private Ryan as a particularly great movie, but I think it served a powerful purpose in making people understand just how hellish that war was.

Exactly.  The movie was OK, but some of the scenes were incredibly emotional.  I think many people had no idea what it was like and were completly shocked out how bloody, violent, and just how much hell war is.

[No? in Austin]

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Interestingly, there was a show on the History Channel tonight about Vikings.

Josh Bernstein's show on the History channel is outstanding (to me).  Nice show last night on Eric the Red and his son, Leif the Lucky.

[HudsonHawk]

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Interestingly, there was a show on the History Channel tonight about Vikings.

Josh Bernstein's show on the History channel is outstanding (to me).  Nice show last night on Eric the Red and his son, Leif the Lucky.

It was good, but too much time in Greenland and not enough talking about the Vikings in North America, which is what I thought the show was going to be about.  No mention of their encounters with the natives and such.  At any rate, I like that show too.  Lot's of cool stuff.  I want Josh Bernstein's job.

[Limey]

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I know my gereration could not have done what they did.

I disagree.  I think they would have, had they been faced with the same threat.  Ordinary people are capable of extraordinary things when needs be.

[No? in Austin]

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Exactly.  The movie was OK, but some of the scenes were incredibly emotional.  I think many people had no idea what it was like and were completly shocked out how bloody, violent, and just how much hell war is.

Band of Brothers, although not a movie but a series, was equal if not greater in impact to me.  Took away all the Audie Murphy scenes out of my head for good.

[HudsonHawk]

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Exactly.  The movie was OK, but some of the scenes were incredibly emotional.  I think many people had no idea what it was like and were completly shocked out how bloody, violent, and just how much hell war is.

Band of Brothers, although not a movie but a series, was equal if not greater in impact to me.  Took away all the Audie Murphy scenes out of my head for good.

Band of Brothers is outstanding.  I have the DVD's.  My dad came over to the house on Sunday and borrowed them.  We got talking about the whole deal and his old army days.  He was in the 101st, but not until the 1950's (has great Little Rock High School and Bay of Pigs stories).  But he served with a few guys who jumped on D-Day.  My great uncle also was in the 506th of the 101st, and jumped on D-Day.  He got his leg shot off in Holland during Operation Market Garden, and spent the rest of the war in a hospital.  He didn't talk about his war days much.

[jasonact]

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It was good, but too much time in Greenland and not enough talking about the Vikings in North America, which is what I thought the show was going to be about.

This may be splitting hairs, but Greenland was in North America last time I looked.

[toddthebod]

I didn't go to the service academies, but I think there is a recognition that the education at the academies is of very high quality and on par with other top schools.  Of course, I also believe that Ivy League is overvalued and that one can get as good an education at many other schools -- it depends on the individual student and his/her interest in learning and taking difficult courses.  (The real value of an Ivy League education is the diploma, which opens some doors, particularly in the East Coast.)

[HudsonHawk]

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It was good, but too much time in Greenland and not enough talking about the Vikings in North America, which is what I thought the show was going to be about.

This may be splitting hairs, but Greenland was in North America last time I looked.

Greenland is an island.  I meant specifically the North American mainland.

[BizidyDizidy]

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It was good, but too much time in Greenland and not enough talking about the Vikings in North America, which is what I thought the show was going to be about.

This may be splitting hairs, but Greenland was in North America last time I looked.

Greenland is an island.  I meant specifically the North American mainland.

Aww, the crawfishing move of a classic Greenland troll.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Exactly.  The movie was OK, but some of the scenes were incredibly emotional.  I think many people had no idea what it was like and were completly shocked out how bloody, violent, and just how much hell war is.

Band of Brothers, although not a movie but a series, was equal if not greater in impact to me.  Took away all the Audie Murphy scenes out of my head for good.

Band of Brothers is outstanding.  I have the DVD's.  My dad came over to the house on Sunday and borrowed them.  We got talking about the whole deal and his old army days.  He was in the 101st, but not until the 1950's (has great Little Rock High School and Bay of Pigs stories).  But he served with a few guys who jumped on D-Day.  My great uncle also was in the 506th of the 101st, and jumped on D-Day.  He got his leg shot off in Holland during Operation Market Garden, and spent the rest of the war in a hospital.  He didn't talk about his war days much.

I also have the DVD set.  It's an amazing story.  

I had 2 uncles who fought in WWII.  One died in the South Pacific.  The other fought in Europe and was wounded during the "Battle of the Bulge".  Getting details from this uncle was impossible, with the most ever offered that he was wounded in the second wave of the "Battle of the Bulge" and later he was assigned to photographing evidence of concentration camps.

[HudsonHawk]

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I had 2 uncles who fought in WWII.  One died in the South Pacific.  The other fought in Europe and was wounded during the "Battle of the Bulge".  Getting details from this uncle was impossible, with the most ever offered that he was wounded in the second wave of the "Battle of the Bulge" and later he was assigned to photographing evidence of concentration camps.

It's interesting how people feel differently about discussing it.  My GF's (at the time) father loved to talk about his war days, even about being shot down and being a POW.  Had his Purple Heart license plates and attended every reunion they had.  My uncle, on the other hand would never even show his Bronze Star or Purple Heart.  You'd ask him a question and he's simply say "I don't talk about that".

[Rebel Jew]

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and Joey does not care what happened in 1944. ancient history to him. get him another beer. he's not drunk yet.

Brokaw had the "Greatest Generation" idea exactly right. no subsequent generation would have done what they did. thank God they were there.

jim, an entire generation of my family was wiped out in eastern europe.  wiped off the face of the fucking planet.  the senior generation of my family is still, in their 80's, deeply scarred and deeply affected by the family they lost at the nazi death camps.  the sacrifice of those who fought in that war was as great as any, and i can only hope that i would show the same courage if called into the same situation.

however, those sacrifices do not, in my opinion, justify or even relate to a high school kid in 2006 going off to fight in iraq or iran or whatever's next.

my first cousin worked at world trade center tower 2 on 9/11, and he lost many friends.  my stepbrother is currently stationed in iraq, partially as a path to citizenship (he carries columbian citizenship even though his mother his american and lives in houston).  what is any of this worth?  to prove your courage?  to prove your maturity?  am i any less of an american because i went to college instead of joining the military?  am i any less of an american because i think america's foreign policy is heading in a horrible direction, and hope that unsuspecting high school kids not be sucked in to it?  why is it good that a young man's courage and sacrifice be wasted on an unjust war?

[WulawHorn]

Jim- good post on the greatest generation- I agree wholeheartedly.
I used to always try to remember to call my grandpa on 12/7 and thank him for what he did for the world (he joined up right after pearl harbor)

A cynic might point out though that it's not surprising you respect the greatest generation so much- most men are very proud of their grandkids.

[astro pete]

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why is it good that a young man's courage and sacrifice be wasted on an unjust war?

This right here may be your problem.  Courage and sacrifice wasted?

[JimR]

your family history makes your attitude even more inexplicable to me. i'm glad you are in the generation you are in. i doubt you would have had the courage your ancestors had. unfortunately, you are not an aberration; you are typical.

fuck your "unjust war," joey. have another beer, and let others serve their country. you are above it all, secure and smug in your moral ivory tower.

[MusicMan]

Joey - given your background, and given what your family faces - what would have happened if, in 1941, everyone were saying:

 

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 in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can

If you disagree with the current deployment of the military, then I would suggest directing your energies toward changing the occupants of the executive and legislative branches, rather than encouraging the military to be weakened.

[tophfar]

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 in this particular day and age we live in, i'd advise any young person to stay as far the hell away from the military as you can

If you disagree with the current deployment of the military, then I would suggest directing your energies toward changing the occupants of the executive and legislative branches, rather than encouraging the military to be weakened.

because its just an excuse.  he already has preconcieved notions that anything the military does is harmful and wasteful and irrelevant.  it wouldnt matter the state of the world, nor the time the question was asked, he would find some other excuses.

[strosrays]

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I had 2 uncles who fought in WWII.  One died in the South Pacific.  The other fought in Europe and was wounded during the "Battle of the Bulge".  Getting details from this uncle was impossible, with the most ever offered that he was wounded in the second wave of the "Battle of the Bulge" and later he was assigned to photographing evidence of concentration camps.

It's interesting how people feel differently about discussing it.  My GF's (at the time) father loved to talk about his war days, even about being shot down and being a POW.  Had his Purple Heart license plates and attended every reunion they had.  My uncle, on the other hand would never even show his Bronze Star or Purple Heart.  You'd ask him a question and he's simply say "I don't talk about that".

Although his war was Korea, I have an uncle the same way,  won't discuss it at all.  Part of that is probably some psychological defense, but I always get the impression he considers not burdening others with his psychic scars, whatever they may be, a point of honor.

The problem with generalizing about a whole generation is you have to include all of it -- the guys who went and fought the war, and the civilians who supported them at home (like my dear old little grandmother, makes a mean cobbler, full-time housewife who went to work for three years in a munitions plant during WW II), as well as the ones who thought segregating the military and setting up the internment camps on the West Coast was a good idea, and later led the communist witch hunts.

A better question might be, Would my grandfather's generation, had they grown up in the same diversified cultural meilieu today's generation has, as happily and cohesively gone off to Iraq as they did to Europe and the Pacific in the 1940's?

[JimR]

i do not think my father's generation "happily" went off to war. they did so willingly, however, and most of them volunteered. they saved this country by their sacrifices, and i do not think my generation or the generations that followed had the dedication or the courage to make a similar sacrifice.

[No? in Austin]

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I also have the DVD set.  It's an amazing story.  

I had 2 uncles who fought in WWII.  One died in the South Pacific.  The other fought in Europe and was wounded during the "Battle of the Bulge".  Getting details from this uncle was impossible, with the most ever offered that he was wounded in the second wave of the "Battle of the Bulge" and later he was assigned to photographing evidence of concentration camps.

The Battle of the Bulge is a critical historical time during the march of the Allies towards Germany.  Had the German army been able to split the allied forces down the middle and repelled them away from the victory that was at hand, the war would've lasted at least another two to three years if not more.

"Nuts!"

Best line to come out of that battle.  And one that captured the attitude and determination of those involved to get this thing done and defeat the Nazi army.  Band of Brothers does an excellent job of re-telling the events surrounding this battle.  The movie "Battle of the Bulge" is good, but does the Audie Murphy route of re-telling the event.  As does the movie "Patton".  For my money, Band of Brothers does a wonderful job of weaving a story amongst the reality of the fateful D-Day to the march to Germany.

[astrox]

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Anyone wonder why the focus shifted?  Here's a clue:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." ? George W. Bush, Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." ? George W. Bush, March 13, 2002 (exactly 6 months later)

Could you provide a link for those, please?

[Rebel Jew]

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your family history makes your attitude even more inexplicable to me. i'm glad you are in the generation you are in. i doubt you would have had the courage your ancestors had. unfortunately, you are not an aberration; you are typical.

fuck your "unjust war," joey. have another beer, and let others serve their country. you are above it all, secure and smug in your moral ivory tower.

you don't think the justness of the war is a factor in whether high school kids should consider fighting in it?  how would you feel if you risked your life, risked your youth, sacrificed everything for a foreign policy blunder.  ww2 vets fought the very face of evil in the nazis.  you're telling me that a "pre-emptive war" is the same thing?

[Zan]

What's up with high school GPA's? There's too many too far over a 4.0 to be taken seriously.

[MusicMan]

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your family history makes your attitude even more inexplicable to me. i'm glad you are in the generation you are in. i doubt you would have had the courage your ancestors had. unfortunately, you are not an aberration; you are typical.

fuck your "unjust war," joey. have another beer, and let others serve their country. you are above it all, secure and smug in your moral ivory tower.

you don't think the justness of the war is a factor in whether high school kids should consider fighting in it?  how would you feel if you risked your life, risked your youth, sacrificed everything for a foreign policy blunder.  ww2 vets fought the very face of evil in the nazis.  you're telling me that a "pre-emptive war" is the same thing?

Enlisted men don't decide what war to fight - they do the fighting.

Again, direct your frustrations where they belong.

[Phil_in_CS]

Risks are common for boys that age... my nephew was sent to Iraq about 10 months after showing up for basic. His company (communications tech stuff) didn't have a person killed the year they were there.

They get back to Germany, get a week of light duty to decompress a bit, they they all get a two week leave. During the two week leave, 1 kid was killed in a fight with some gang kids he knew from high school and 3 others were killed in separate alcohol related accidents.

I'm proud of him for signing up; he knew when he joined the army he'd get sent there shortly. He is doing a job for his country, and they've done him well by teaching him discipline and purpose.

[EasTexAstro]

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your family history makes your attitude even more inexplicable to me. i'm glad you are in the generation you are in. i doubt you would have had the courage your ancestors had. unfortunately, you are not an aberration; you are typical.

fuck your "unjust war," joey. have another beer, and let others serve their country. you are above it all, secure and smug in your moral ivory tower.

you don't think the justness of the war is a factor in whether high school kids should consider fighting in it?  how would you feel if you risked your life, risked your youth, sacrificed everything for a foreign policy blunder.  ww2 vets fought the very face of evil in the nazis.  you're telling me that a "pre-emptive war" is the same thing?

Not to mention crazy stuff like natural disaster response. Got to quit doing stuff like that.

Look, I took offense to what was posted earlier. I do have strong feelings about a lot of stuff related to this topic and would very much like to see many of the opinions of the people of this board, but...

I like this board for the diversions and then avoidance of most of the political. I know it creeps in on occasion, but self-restraint is usually enough to keep too many jabs from being thrown. I tried to keep it vanilla, but I shouldn't have spoken up as much as I did. I just wanted to point out there is good and bad associated with both sides of the choice - serving or not serving - and without knowing the reasons behind the choices, I am not sure anyone should try to make a rash judgement from a couple of less than thoughtful remarks.

I do think that if anyone has any doubt whatsoever about serving, they should stay away. It is a huge commitment that needs a firm resolve and a lot of thought.

[JimR]

who are you to decide what is a "foreign policy blunder" or to refuse to serve because you consider the war "unjust?" you think the Nazis are evil because their atrocities touched your family. Hussein did nothing to the Trums so fighting him is "unjust." tell that to the millions who died at his hands. how are they different from the Jews Hitler killed?

run to Canada, you smug, self-righteous spoiled brat. let others keep you safe and serve their country for you. let us know when you find a cause worthy of your service. we'll be waiting a long, long time.

[jasonact]

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Anyone wonder why the focus shifted?  Here's a clue:

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." ? George W. Bush, Sept. 13, 2001

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." ? George W. Bush, March 13, 2002 (exactly 6 months later)

Could you provide a link for those, please?

 Here's one.
 Here's another one.
 And another.

I tried looking in newspaper websites, but I don't have access to most archives going back to 2002. Most are subscription-only access. But I, for one, remember hearing both statements with my own ears.

[NeilT]

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What's up with high school GPA's? There's too many too far over a 4.0 to be taken seriously.

Actually, this is something I know something about.

In some Houston high schools, normal classes are graded on a 4.0 scale.  Honors classes are graded on a 5.0 scale.  A kid who takes all honors classes (AP and IB, I think), but nothing else, and makes all As, will have a higher grade point than a kid who takes other classes. A kid who goes to a middle school that offers honors high school classes may come into a high school with honors credit for a class, while a kid who went to a different middle school won't.  There's no way for the second kid to ever catch up.  At most high schools, the difference between a valedictorian and a salutetorian maybe in the range of 1000ths of a grade point, and among the top 20 or so may be in the 100ths.  I

The whole reason for it, of course, makes sense if you think about it, though it means that a lot of the kids in the top of the class are forced to take all honors and minimal extracurriculars.  When my wife graduated from Lamar, though, on a 4 point system, she was number one in her class, along with 19 other people.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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I had 2 uncles who fought in WWII.  One died in the South Pacific.  The other fought in Europe and was wounded during the "Battle of the Bulge".  Getting details from this uncle was impossible, with the most ever offered that he was wounded in the second wave of the "Battle of the Bulge" and later he was assigned to photographing evidence of concentration camps.

It's interesting how people feel differently about discussing it.  My GF's (at the time) father loved to talk about his war days, even about being shot down and being a POW.  Had his Purple Heart license plates and attended every reunion they had.  My uncle, on the other hand would never even show his Bronze Star or Purple Heart.  You'd ask him a question and he's simply say "I don't talk about that".

Although his war was Korea, I have an uncle the same way,  won't discuss it at all.  Part of that is probably some psychological defense, but I always get the impression he considers not burdening others with his psychic scars, whatever they may be, a point of honor.

I think for my uncle, his reservations about discussing it stemmed from the feelings of those who lost loved ones as well as not wanting to glorify himself knowing alot of his peers never came home.  To this day, my mother, to whom this uncle was a second father, cannot watch any program about WWII as her oldest brother was the one who died in the South Pacific.  The repercussions of this loss was compounded by the fact that in my mother's family, which typified the generation to my understanding, only 5 of 7 children survived childhood and another died very young, in the war.  

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The problem with generalizing about a whole generation is you have to include all of it -- the guys who went and fought the war, and the civilians who supported them at home (like my dear old little grandmother, makes a mean cobbler, full-time housewife who went to work for three years in a munitions plant during WW II), as well as the ones who thought segregating the military and setting up the internment camps on the West Coast was a good idea, and later led the communist witch hunts.

I disagree.  When the actions and results are weighted and measured, the contributions of this generation far outweigh the negatives.  

My greatest frustration with my generation is that they expect, no demand, that all solutions be perfect, with no failure, no sacrifice, and absolutely no acceptance of personal loss.  

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A better question might be, Would my grandfather's generation, had they grown up in the same diversified cultural meilieu today's generation has, as happily and cohesively gone off to Iraq as they did to Europe and the Pacific in the 1940's?

From the WWII vets I've spoken to (an old neighbor, Old Ag,  class of '42) said, yes, they would have gone.  No one was happy about it then (they weren't stupid you know) but they went.  They didn't run to Canada.  They didn't refuse to take up arms.  They did what they were asked and did whatever they could to come home alive and bring as many friends back at the same time.

Meanwhile, I have professional peers who complain about how the work we do is not really what they want to do and do a piss-poor job because of it.  They accept the fat pay-check, regardless, but only because they have to pay for the pimp'd out rides and apartments where rent cost more than my house payment.  And god help you if you offer any constructive criticism on doing more work or improving the quality of their work.  They are more likely to do less as a result.

[Limey]

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This right here may be your problem.  Courage and sacrifice wasted?

It is if the bravest and the best are thrown willy-nilly into harm's way (see War, The Great).

[Limey]

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Could you provide a link for those, please?

Both are available in the text of Bush speeches post on the White House website.  Just search by the date.

Alternatively, just paste the quotes into Google, and it'll give you the links to the official texts.

[NeilT]

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who are you to decide what is a "foreign policy blunder" or to refuse to serve because you consider the war "unjust?" you think the Nazis are evil because their atrocities touched your family. Hussein did nothing to the Trums so fighting him is "unjust." tell that to the millions who died at his hands. how are they different from the Jews Hitler killed?

run to Canada, you smug, self-righteous spoiled brat. let others keep you safe and serve their country for you. let us know when you find a cause worthy of your service. we'll be waiting a long, long time.

Or Mexico.  The Link

[BizidyDizidy]

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What's up with high school GPA's? There's too many too far over a 4.0 to be taken seriously.

Actually, this is something I know something about.

In some Houston high schools, normal classes are graded on a 4.0 scale.  Honors classes are graded on a 5.0 scale.  A kid who takes all honors classes (AP and IB, I think), but nothing else, and makes all As, will have a higher grade point than a kid who takes other classes. A kid who goes to a middle school that offers honors high school classes may come into a high school with honors credit for a class, while a kid who went to a different middle school won't.  There's no way for the second kid to ever catch up.  At most high schools, the difference between a valedictorian and a salutetorian maybe in the range of 1000ths of a grade point, and among the top 20 or so may be in the 100ths.  I

The whole reason for it, of course, makes sense if you think about it, though it means that a lot of the kids in the top of the class are forced to take all honors and minimal extracurriculars.  When my wife graduated from Lamar, though, on a 4 point system, she was number one in her class, along with 19 other people.

I believe that at the Woodlands High they used 4 for regular track, 5 for Honors, and 6 for AP. It's worth noting that colleges don't use these GPAs but calculate their own instead, so it really only matters for class rank and sounding impressive.

[Rebel Jew]

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who are you to decide what is a "foreign policy blunder" or to refuse to serve because you consider the war "unjust?" you think the Nazis are evil because their atrocities touched your family. Hussein did nothing to the Trums so fighting him is "unjust." tell that to the millions who died at his hands. how are they different from the Jews Hitler killed?

run to Canada, you smug, self-righteous spoiled brat. let others keep you safe and serve their country for you. let us know when you find a cause worthy of your service. we'll be waiting a long, long time.

you have your opinions, jim, and i have mine.  i do not think it is the responsibility of the united states to be an international police agency.  why aren't we fighting a war in sudan right now?  why didn't we fight one in rwanda?  why aren't we fighting one in the democratic republic of the congo?

yes, none of my relatives were killed by hussein.  so why should my stepbrother have to go fight there?  iraq (and nazi germany for that matter) got to the point it did by blindly following its government without question.  healthy skepticism is a necessary right in this country.

[MusicMan]

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yes, none of my relatives were killed by hussein.  so why should my stepbrother have to go fight there?

Because he enlisted with the full knowledge that when you join the armed forces, you are volunteering to go into harm's way.  He didn't join a country club.

[NeilT]

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What's up with high school GPA's? There's too many too far over a 4.0 to be taken seriously.

Actually, this is something I know something about.

In some Houston high schools, normal classes are graded on a 4.0 scale.  Honors classes are graded on a 5.0 scale.  A kid who takes all honors classes (AP and IB, I think), but nothing else, and makes all As, will have a higher grade point than a kid who takes other classes. A kid who goes to a middle school that offers honors high school classes may come into a high school with honors credit for a class, while a kid who went to a different middle school won't.  There's no way for the second kid to ever catch up.  At most high schools, the difference between a valedictorian and a salutetorian maybe in the range of 1000ths of a grade point, and among the top 20 or so may be in the 100ths.  I

The whole reason for it, of course, makes sense if you think about it, though it means that a lot of the kids in the top of the class are forced to take all honors and minimal extracurriculars.  When my wife graduated from Lamar, though, on a 4 point system, she was number one in her class, along with 19 other people.

I believe that at the Woodlands High they used 4 for regular track, 5 for Honors, and 6 for AP. It's worth noting that colleges don't use these GPAs but calculate their own instead, so it really only matters for class rank and sounding impressive.

I think Texas, for instance, takes the class rankings as calculated in figuring the top 10%.

[HudsonHawk]

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What's up with high school GPA's? There's too many too far over a 4.0 to be taken seriously.

They are not on a 4.0 scale anymore, that's all.  It's like the SAT.  A score of 1300 doesn't impress nowadays, but 20 years go, it got you into Harvard.

[BizidyDizidy]

A score of 1300 these days is especially poor, because they added another section (out of 2400).

Before that, a score of 1300 was still pretty strong - within the 25-75 percentile of the naval academy, for example (and to get this thread back on topic)

[MusicMan]

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What's up with high school GPA's? There's too many too far over a 4.0 to be taken seriously.

They are not on a 4.0 scale anymore, that's all.  It's like the SAT.  A score of 1300 doesn't impress nowadays, but 20 years go, it got you into Harvard.

Not 15 years ago, I can tell you that much.

[chuck]

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who are you to decide what is a "foreign policy blunder" or to refuse to serve because you consider the war "unjust?" you think the Nazis are evil because their atrocities touched your family. Hussein did nothing to the Trums so fighting him is "unjust." tell that to the millions who died at his hands. how are they different from the Jews Hitler killed?

Attempting to compare the Nazis with Saddam Hussein is beyond ludicrous.

And if anyone still truly believes that the unilateral invasion was retaliation for Saddam's various pogroms, well, that is a display of astounding naivete.

[MusicMan]

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Attempting to compare the Nazis with Saddam Hussein is beyond ludicrous.
 

Ask the Kurds how ludicrous it is.

[HudsonHawk]

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Not 15 years ago, I can tell you that much.

I think they started the different grading process about then.  When I took the SAT in 1983, the national average was 700.  A score of 1000 got you automatic admission to any state school and a 1200 got you in basically anywhere.  Then they started to score it differently and the average jumped to like 1200 with scores of 1500 everywhere.  Same test, different grading system, so the numbers mean different things.

[HudsonHawk]

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A score of 1300 these days is especially poor, because they added another section (out of 2400).

Yeah, it's totally different now, but that's only been in the last year or two, right?

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Before that, a score of 1300 was still pretty strong - within the 25-75 percentile of the naval academy, for example (and to get this thread back on topic)

25 years ago, a score of 1300 was nearly unheard of.  Our valedictorian, Naval Academy appointee only scored like 1100.  One guy from our class went to Harvard (graduated like 4th in the class), and his score was well below 1300.

[MusicMan]

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Not 15 years ago, I can tell you that much.

I think they started the different grading process about then.  When I took the SAT in 1983, the national average was 700.  A score of 1000 got you automatic admission to any state school and a 1200 got you in basically anywhere.  Then they started to score it differently and the average jumped to like 1200 with scores of 1500 everywhere.  Same test, different grading system, so the numbers mean different things.

It changed in  1994 , two years after I took it.

I can tell you, though, that when you receive a letter stating that "we feel you are fully qualified, but are seeking a more diverse admissions class"... it affects your thinking for a while.

[pravata]

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Attempting to compare the Nazis with Saddam Hussein is beyond ludicrous.
 

Ask the Kurds how ludicrous it is.

George H.W. would be more qualified to explain that one.

[MusicMan]

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Attempting to compare the Nazis with Saddam Hussein is beyond ludicrous.
 

Ask the Kurds how ludicrous it is.

George H.W. would be more qualified to explain that one.

Don't get me started on the number of things for which 41 was more qualified.

[Señor Stan]

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Hey guys I'm going into my Senior year of High Schoo, The Navy contacted me today and asked if I'd come in for a meeting tomorrow & I said sure. I have no intention of joining but he insisted that I at least see what they have to offer. I know going to Annapolis and getting an Ivy League education is very prestigious but as of right now that's not what I want to do. Has any one of you guys ever sat down and talked with a recruiter- If so what have the had to say? Or do any of you have experience in the Navy w/ college and stuff.

Thanks, Joe

I haven't been around for a while and just caught this thread.  I went to Annapolis back in the late 80s early 90s.  If you have any specific questions about the experience send me a PM or reply in this thread.  I'd be glad to help you in any way I can.

Most of the information that has been given is pretty accurate.  

You need a nomination from a Congressman (U.S. not State).  They have a limited amount of Serivce Academy spots that they can have at any one time.  It used to be five.  Your best chance is to try your local representative rather than a Senator.  You are competing with less people that way.

Plebe year is tough.  Really tough.  Expect to take anywhere from 18-21 hours per semester not including required extra curricular activities.

innursting facts...

-You only rate sitting on the first 3 inches of your chair.
-All meals are eaten square.  
-You only get three chews and a swallow when eating.
-You have to "chop" (running with your knees parallel to the deck and your elbows in at your side) anywhere you go in Bancroft hall. (the dorm)
-You have to square every corner and shout either "Go Navy Sir, or Beat Army Sir".

-You have five basic responses...
1) the correct answer
2) "Yes, Sir" or "No Sir"
3) "Aye Aye Sir"
4) "I'll find out sir"
5) or "No excuse sir"
never offer any excuses or explanations or you will be labeled a "sea lawyer." (no offense to any of the regular lawyers around here"

Never under any circumstances bet your ass on anything.  If you lose, you have to keep and "Ass Log" to document whenever you sit down.  You have to request permission to use your ass from the person that owns it.  

There are about a million and a half more things.  Let me know if you want to hear some of them.

[HudsonHawk]

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You need a nomination from a Congressman (U.S. not State).  

There is no such thing as a "State Congressman".  Didn't they teach you that?  I think I own your ass for a week now.

[Limey]

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George H.W. would be more qualified to explain that one.

The argument by members of the current administration that Hussein needed to go because he gassed his own people is revisionism of the highest order.

[pravata]

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Attempting to compare the Nazis with Saddam Hussein is beyond ludicrous.
 

Ask the Kurds how ludicrous it is.

George H.W. would be more qualified to explain that one.

Don't get me started on the number of things for which 41 was more qualified.

He and his advisors got that a US army in Baghdad would be a huge mistake.  They still get it.  However, after Gulf 1, they encouraged the Kurds to revolt, same like Czecholovakia in 68.  But, heck, Hussein was gassing Kurds way before that.

[jasonact]

Has anyone seen Spack lately? I sure could use that sunuvabitch.

[Limey]

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Has anyone seen Spack lately? I sure could use that sunuvabitch.

Actually, what we really need is a frikkin' Astros game!

[Jacksonian]

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What's up with high school GPA's? There's too many too far over a 4.0 to be taken seriously.

Actually, this is something I know something about.

In some Houston high schools, normal classes are graded on a 4.0 scale.  Honors classes are graded on a 5.0 scale.  A kid who takes all honors classes (AP and IB, I think), but nothing else, and makes all As, will have a higher grade point than a kid who takes other classes. A kid who goes to a middle school that offers honors high school classes may come into a high school with honors credit for a class, while a kid who went to a different middle school won't.  There's no way for the second kid to ever catch up.  At most high schools, the difference between a valedictorian and a salutetorian maybe in the range of 1000ths of a grade point, and among the top 20 or so may be in the 100ths.  I

The whole reason for it, of course, makes sense if you think about it, though it means that a lot of the kids in the top of the class are forced to take all honors and minimal extracurriculars.  When my wife graduated from Lamar, though, on a 4 point system, she was number one in her class, along with 19 other people.

I believe that at the Woodlands High they used 4 for regular track, 5 for Honors, and 6 for AP. It's worth noting that colleges don't use these GPAs but calculate their own instead, so it really only matters for class rank and sounding impressive.

I think Texas, for instance, takes the class rankings as calculated in figuring the top 10%.

That's what it is.  The top 10% of the graduating class by gpa.

Universities do use the high school gpa but weight it with respect to a number of things including quality of the school.

[MusicMan]

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Has anyone seen Spack lately? I sure could use that sunuvabitch.

Actually, what we really need is a frikkin' Astros game!

Damn Cubs can't even play proper daytime baseball anymore...

[HudsonHawk]

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Universities do use the high school gpa but weight it with respect to a number of things including quality of the school.

Perhaps it's just me, but class ranking always seemed to me like a lousy way of determining college worthiness.  I guess I knew too many people who ranked ahead of me but were morons.

[MusicMan]

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Universities do use the high school gpa but weight it with respect to a number of things including quality of the school.

Perhaps it's just me, but class ranking always seemed to me like a lousy way of determining college worthiness.  I guess I knew too many people who ranked ahead of me but were morons.

What do you expect from the Texas Legislature?

[tophfar]

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Has anyone seen Spack lately? I sure could use that sunuvabitch.

Actually, what we really need is a frikkin' Astros game!

indeed.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Yeah, thanks for all the insight guys. I never really thought much about serving and as of now that wasn't my intention I was just posting saying I got a call from a recruiter wanting me to have a meeting w/ me. He told me to bring my SS card and stuff and I just felt he was getting a little out of hand I mean I'll talk to you but I don't want to sign abunch of stuff when I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School. But my dream has always been to go to Texas because I'm a big longhorn fan & love the school. Thanks for all the help though guys.

If you really have a 4.3 GPA and are in the top 50 out of a class of 1000, why are you here asking whether to enlist as a serviceman? Why would you assume that a recruiter could get you into Annapolis? And why would you believe the Naval Academy is in the Ivy League?

I find it extremely hard to believe that a junior going into his senior year with the kind of academic credentials you purport to have really knows that little about where you want to go to college, much less questioning whether to go to college at all.

No offense, but I call bullshit.

Next you'll tell us you got a 1614 on the SAT.

[Señor Stan]

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You need a nomination from a Congressman (U.S. not State).  

There is no such thing as a "State Congressman".  Didn't they teach you that?  I think I own your ass for a week now.

You are correct sir!  

That is precisely why you NEVER bet your ass on anything.  It sucks to have to request permission to use you ass to take a dump.

Foghorn should have considered this before putting ol' Lefty on the line.

[HudsonHawk]

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Yeah, thanks for all the insight guys. I never really thought much about serving and as of now that wasn't my intention I was just posting saying I got a call from a recruiter wanting me to have a meeting w/ me. He told me to bring my SS card and stuff and I just felt he was getting a little out of hand I mean I'll talk to you but I don't want to sign abunch of stuff when I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School. But my dream has always been to go to Texas because I'm a big longhorn fan & love the school. Thanks for all the help though guys.

If you really have a 4.3 GPA and are in the top 50 out of a class of 1000, why are you here asking whether to enlist as a serviceman? Why would you assume that a recruiter could get you into Annapolis? And why would you believe the Naval Academy is in the Ivy League?

I find it extremely hard to believe that a junior going into his senior year with the kind of academic credentials you purport to have really knows that little about where you want to go to college, much less questioning whether to go to college at all.

No offense, but I call bullshit.

Out of curiosity Arky, where did you do your undergrad?

[NeilT]

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Yeah, thanks for all the insight guys. I never really thought much about serving and as of now that wasn't my intention I was just posting saying I got a call from a recruiter wanting me to have a meeting w/ me. He told me to bring my SS card and stuff and I just felt he was getting a little out of hand I mean I'll talk to you but I don't want to sign abunch of stuff when I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School. But my dream has always been to go to Texas because I'm a big longhorn fan & love the school. Thanks for all the help though guys.

If you really have a 4.3 GPA and are in the top 50 out of a class of 1000, why are you here asking whether to enlist as a serviceman? Why would you assume that a recruiter could get you into Annapolis? And why would you believe the Naval Academy is in the Ivy League?

I find it extremely hard to believe that a junior going into his senior year with the kind of academic credentials you purport to have really knows that little about where you want to go to college, much less questioning whether to go to college at all.

No offense, but I call bullshit.

Next you'll tell us you got a 1614 on the SAT.

Haven't been around teenagers much lately, have you.  If they were  really smart they would rule the universe.

[chuck]

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Attempting to compare the Nazis with Saddam Hussein is beyond ludicrous.
 

Ask the Kurds how ludicrous it is.

You know perfectly well that wars are fought for economic reasons exclusively.

Look, I can't say I'm sanguine about Saddam's treatment of ethnic and religious minorities within Iraq, but if you want to put a stop to that you put together an international coalition (much like HW's boys did) and get on with it. The fact that most of the people who are feverish to give the Iraqis their "freedom" have no idea who Robert Mugabe is provides further (and unnecesary) amplification of how hollow the human rights angle is.

It's almost irrelevant to point out that the United States was a primary military ally to Saddam for the better part of a decade.

[ASTROCREEP]

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...healthy skepticism is a necessary right in this country.

This is a key point here. Unfortunately we cannot blindly assume any political leader (Donkey or Elephant) is making good sound policy decisions for their country and NOT making decisions for personal or party gain.

[MusicMan]

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Attempting to compare the Nazis with Saddam Hussein is beyond ludicrous.
 

Ask the Kurds how ludicrous it is.

You know perfectly well that wars are fought for economic reasons exclusively.

I think that's a gross oversimplification.  Exhibit A: India and Pakistan.

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Look, I can't say I'm sanguine about Saddam's treatment of ethnic and religious minorities within Iraq, but if you want to put a stop to that you put together an international coalition (much like HW's boys did) and get on with it. The fact that most of the people who are feverish to give the Iraqis their "freedom" have no idea who Robert Mugabe is provides further (and unnecesary) amplification of how hollow the human rights angle is.

It's almost irrelevant to point out that the United States was a primary military ally to Saddam for the better part of a decade.

Taking issue with the means (which I do) is far different than taking issue with the goal.  The goal of removing Saddam from power was, in my estimation, a worthy goal, but was executed in a fashion that would be comical had it not cost thousands of lives.

[HudsonHawk]

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Haven't been around teenagers much lately, have you.  If they were  really smart they would rule the universe.

Youth is wasted on the young.

[Arky Vaughan]

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I am torn about that decision to this day.  I am very happy in life right now, so that makes it easier to dismiss such regrets.  But I definitely missed out on seeing action in the Falklands War and Gulf War #1.  On the flip side, I definitely avoided seeing action in the Falklands War and Gulf War #1.

You don't look old enough to have fought in the Falklands, for what it's worth.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Yeah, thanks for all the insight guys. I never really thought much about serving and as of now that wasn't my intention I was just posting saying I got a call from a recruiter wanting me to have a meeting w/ me. He told me to bring my SS card and stuff and I just felt he was getting a little out of hand I mean I'll talk to you but I don't want to sign abunch of stuff when I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing. I feel like I do have the grades to get into Annapolis if I wanted to but I don't. I'm currently holding onto a 4.3+ GPA and am in the top 50 of my class of over 1000 at Pearland High School. But my dream has always been to go to Texas because I'm a big longhorn fan & love the school. Thanks for all the help though guys.

If you really have a 4.3 GPA and are in the top 50 out of a class of 1000, why are you here asking whether to enlist as a serviceman? Why would you assume that a recruiter could get you into Annapolis? And why would you believe the Naval Academy is in the Ivy League?

I find it extremely hard to believe that a junior going into his senior year with the kind of academic credentials you purport to have really knows that little about where you want to go to college, much less questioning whether to go to college at all.

No offense, but I call bullshit.

Out of curiosity Arky, where did you do your undergrad?

A little ol' school in Austin, Texas.

[HudsonHawk]

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You don't look old enough to have fought in the Falklands, for what it's worth.

That's because the sun never shines in England.  Everyone looks like they're 12 years old still.

[HudsonHawk]

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A little ol' school in Austin, Texas.

That's what I though.  I get you and Todd's schools mixed up sometimes though.  You're both eastern rumpled shirts.

[MusicMan]

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You don't look old enough to have fought in the Falklands, for what it's worth.

That's because the sun never shines in England.  Everyone looks like they're 12 years old still.

Including their teeth.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Haven't been around teenagers much lately, have you.  If they were  really smart they would rule the universe.

True about teenagers -- but if I recall correctly, most of the overachievers, by the summer of their junior year, knew a thing or two about what kind of colleges they've got a shot at.

Maybe Crawford Boxes does have the credentials he posted, but I'd think he'd already have his sights set on UT or somewhere even better if he's top 5%.

Nor am I saying that somebody shouldn't choose to enlist even if college is an option. But I agree with Browneye: if you've got the numbers to go to a good school, get an education, do ROTC, graduate and get your commission, serve your country, and you should have plenty of options and a bright future ahead of you.

The military needs officers as well as enlisted men.

[astro pete]

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 Then they started to score it differently and the average jumped to like 1200

The national average was just over 1000 before the new scale last year.

[Limey]

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You don't look old enough to have fought in the Falklands, for what it's worth.

Actually, you're right (my bad).  Was a couple of years shy, but had some fellow (older) corps members serve.  Was 17 when the Falklands was happening but 26 for Gulf War #1.

[Limey]

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That's because the sun never shines in England.  Everyone looks like they're 12 years old still.

Actually, we're all wrinkly from the rain.

[Arky Vaughan]

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i'm thinking you should rethink your perceptions of what joining the armed forces actually entails.

this might alleviate some of your confusion.

I think the issue with many people (over 60% of the population per latest opinion polls) is that the current war is huge mistake.  Doesn't lessen the honor of those serving in it, but it will give pause to many who would otherwise sign up.

Military service is honorable, but this conflict is less and less so by the day.  And if you sign up now, you will see this conflict first hand.

From the reports I've seen, the vast majority of the troops over there believe in what they're doing. And the personnel I've known who've come back from Iraq were proud not only that they served their country, but were proud of where they served and what they did there.

You and the short-attention-span respondents to polls might think their sacrifice in vain. They do not.

[Limey]

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The military needs officers as well as enlisted men.

I have read that the recruiting shortfalls are even worse in the officer ranks than for the enlisted ranks.

[Arky Vaughan]

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You don't look old enough to have fought in the Falklands, for what it's worth.

Actually, you're right (my bad).  Was a couple of years shy, but had some fellow (older) corps members serve.  Was 17 when the Falklands was happening but 26 for Gulf War #1.

I wasn't questioning the veracity of what you said. I was just surprised by your youthful good looks. NTTATWT.

[Arky Vaughan]

The Link

"The morale, fighting effectiveness, and confidence of U.S. combat forces continue to be simply awe-inspiring. In every sensing session and interaction - I probed for weakness and found courage, belief in the mission, enormous confidence in their sergeants and company grade officers, an understanding of the larger mission, a commitment to creating an effective Iraqi Army and Police, unabashed patriotism, and a sense of humor. All of these soldiers, NCOs and young officers were volunteers for combat. Many were on their second combat tour - several were on the third or fourth combat tour. Many had re-enlisted to stay with their unit on its return to a second Iraq deployment. Many planned to re-enlist regardless of how long the war went on."

[Limey]

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From the reports I've seen, the vast majority of the troops over there believe in what they're doing. And the personnel I've known who've come back from Iraq were proud not only that they served their country, but were proud of where they served and what they did there.

You and the short-attention-span respondents to polls might think their sacrifice in vain. They do not.

Here's a poll which shows that 90% of troops in Iraq believe that they are there to avenge the 9/11 attacks.  It also reports that the troops are split 58/42 over the clarity of the mission there.

The link

What's never in doubt is that the troops are 100% there for each other and have no quit in them.  Recommended viewing on this subject is the HBO documentary "Baghdad ER", although I don't recommend watching it in high-def.

[Limey]

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I wasn't questioning the veracity of what you said. I was just surprised by your youthful good looks. NTTATWT.

Being constanttly pickled is great for the skin, bad for the memory.

[pravata]

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...might think their sacrifice in vain. They do not.

Never what the argument was about.  Furthermore, the armed forces are not in charge of the reasons.

[Arky Vaughan]

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...might think their sacrifice in vain. They do not.

Never what the argument was about.  Furthermore, the armed forces are not in charge of the reasons.

You don't really want to have the argument again, do you?

[pravata]

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...might think their sacrifice in vain. They do not.

Never what the argument was about.  Furthermore, the armed forces are not in charge of the reasons.

You don't really want to have the argument again, do you?

You brought it up.

[Holly]

Strategic sheep purposes? (Got a flag?)

[Arky Vaughan]

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...might think their sacrifice in vain. They do not.

Never what the argument was about.  Furthermore, the armed forces are not in charge of the reasons.

You don't really want to have the argument again, do you?

You brought it up.

Yes, I was the only one to mention it. Nobody else posted anything else about it. Sorry. I'm so unreliable.

Good thing you're here to keep me in my place. Thanks.

[strosrays]

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i do not think my father's generation "happily" went off to war. they did so willingly, however, and most of them volunteered. they saved this country by their sacrifices, and i do not think my generation or the generations that followed had the dedication or the courage to make a similar sacrifice.

Yeah, happily was probably not the best choice of words.  Willingly works.

"Courage", however one defines it, doesn't exist in a vacuum, any more than a "generation" does.  Just as this generation is defined by the cultural influences it has grown up with, so were the "greatest" generation.  I don't know if even the next generation after the WWII guys can be compared to them -- one of the greatest cultural shifts in the history of the country occurred just after the WWII vets returned home.  And now we're two or three more generations on.  There is no comparison by now, it is apples and oranges.

There are certain core values that should be in place regardless of the cultural environment, and I believe they are the same values today as they were 50 or 100 or 1000 years ago, and I am quite sure they are as abundant today as then.  

I am very dubious about proclaiming any one arbitrary demographic "greater", because it's just an opinion, for one thing; and the idea itself is hugely influenced by who is in charge of the dominant cultural message-mongering at the time (Brokaw and his fellow baby boomers, children of the WWII generation, now feeling their oats and facing their own mortality and suddenly realizing how "great" their parents were) and the construction of the theory (presented as fact) involves fairly gross generalizations every step of the way.  One could as easily say Washington's generation, or Lincoln's, or Daniel fucking Boone's was the greatest.  Without what any of those guys did, this discussion wouldn't be happening.

[CrawfordBoxes]

Man I sparked one hell of a debate.

[NeilT]

Going all the way back to the beginning of this thread, I talked to a law student last week.  Don't remember what law school, but he's working for us this summer.  I asked him where he went as an undergraduate.

"Vassar," he said.

"Vassar," I said, "isn't that predominately a women's college?"

"It's better than it used to be," he said, "it's about 45% male."

"How Vassar," I said.

"It was small, and really beautiful, and I got to play baseball."

"Baseball?" I said, "at Vassar?"

"Really lousy baseball," he said, "but I had a great time."

I thought this kid was absolutely brilliant.

[NeilT]

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Man I sparked one hell of a debate.

Lucky you didn't ask about beer.

[November 11]

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"Really lousy baseball," he said, "but I had a great time."

 Vassar Baseball

[chuck]

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The goal of removing Saddam from power was, in my estimation, a worthy goal...

Why? Because he was mean to the Kurds or because he was selling his oil for Euros? The human rights angle, while leaned on heavily in selling the invasion to the public, has no bearing on why the invasion happened. Surely this should be obvious to anyone who has half been paying attention. You will not see the US or the international community rush off to topple the next in a long list of tinhorn dictators who are busy exterminating some segment of their population or another.

US participation against the Axis was completely necessary because an agressive and unfriendly power was dangerously close to reaching economic hegemony (if not outright control) over Europe. Comparisons with the invasion of Iraq are meaningless.

Oh, and I would charactarize the India-Pakistan conflict as a border dispute (rife with religious overtones) designed to pander to each respective side's ill-informed, kneejerk, religious, flag-waving base (sound familiar?) in order to assist each side in maintaining a consolodation of support and power. It all comes back to the $.

[Limey]

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Why? Because he was mean to the Kurds or because he was selling his oil for Euros?

The protection of the PetroDollar is one of the many, many nuances missed in this whole thing.  Furriners are bailing on the $ because the economy is so bad and the US is a significant credit risk; if they didn't need $s to buy oil...hoooweee.

[Browneye]

When I logged on I was really hoping this had ended last night, I feared this would lead into another WMD argument. Please No.

A couple of quick thoughts as I read through this:

For you Band of Brothers fans.... Richard Winters health is not well. From what I know, it doesnt look good.

Mr. Trum.... I think Jim has said it all, but I will add some. You are clearly a me me me guy. Not everyone believes this is an unjust war, that is your oppinion. Your family sacrifices are clearly not your own and you are in no position to say those things. There is more to serving your country than missing the drinking years, and you have no idea the meaning of sacrifice. I can respect the fact that you dont believe in the cause, most people on this site dont, but dont insult Gregory Saunders or Rodrick Solomons memory buy talking about missing your good years wasted in the service.

Limey.... The RAF is the best trained and most intelligent Air Force I every got to serve with. It says a lot that they tried to recruit you. A very tough group.

To the guy who is thinking about the Navy.... Dude...Aim High!

[HudsonHawk]

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Limey.... The RAF is the best trained and most intelligent Air Force I every got to serve with. It says a lot that they tried to recruit you.
 

That they were having a down year?

[NeilT]

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"Really lousy baseball," he said, "but I had a great time."

 Vassar Baseball

That's great.  What I can't figure out is how Vassar got nicknamed the Brewers.  Brewers?

[Browneye]

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Limey.... The RAF is the best trained and most intelligent Air Force I every got to serve with. It says a lot that they tried to recruit you.
 

That they were having a down year?

rock bottom, bankrupt, just need a heart beat

[Limey]

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Limey.... The RAF is the best trained and most intelligent Air Force I every got to serve with. It says a lot that they tried to recruit you.
 

That they were having a down year?

rock bottom, bankrupt, just need a heart beat

Heartbeat optional.

[EasTexAstro]

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Limey.... The RAF is the best trained and most intelligent Air Force I every got to serve with. It says a lot that they tried to recruit you.
 

That they were having a down year?

rock bottom, bankrupt, just need a heart beat

Heartbeat optional.

"He's got a real pretty mouth on him, don't he?"

[No? in Austin]

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"Really lousy baseball," he said, "but I had a great time."

 Vassar Baseball

That's great.  What I can't figure out is how Vassar got nicknamed the Brewers.  Brewers?

Burley Vassar was the guy who jumped the Great Bill Spiers.  He was a Brewers fan.

(Psss.... hold the IM's folks, I know his name is not really Vassar)

[pravata]

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...might think their sacrifice in vain. They do not.

Never what the argument was about.  Furthermore, the armed forces are not in charge of the reasons.

You don't really want to have the argument again, do you?

You brought it up.

Yes, I was the only one to mention it. Nobody else posted anything else about it. Sorry. I'm so unreliable.

Good thing you're here to keep me in my place. Thanks.

God you're a pussy.

[chuck]

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Why? Because he was mean to the Kurds or because he was selling his oil for Euros?

The protection of the PetroDollar is one of the many, many nuances missed in this whole thing.  Furriners are bailing on the $ because the economy is so bad and the US is a significant credit risk; if they didn't need $s to buy oil...hoooweee.

I see the Petro Dollar angle as less of a nuance and more of a  giant, flashing sign outside a seedy hotel window. Sooner than later you Limeys will get on board the Euro-train, and oil-producing nations will figure out that they should be trading in Euros (does anyone seriously believe that the US administration dislikes Chavez because he visits Cuba? Hellooooo?). And then we'll all have a first-hand look at how the US economy reacts to Argentina-style inflation.

If U do not hedge with Euros then U a FOO.

[Arky Vaughan]

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God you're a pussy.

That the best you can do?

Sorry, but I won't take the bait.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Why? Because he was mean to the Kurds or because he was selling his oil for Euros?

The protection of the PetroDollar is one of the many, many nuances missed in this whole thing.  Furriners are bailing on the $ because the economy is so bad and the US is a significant credit risk; if they didn't need $s to buy oil...hoooweee.

I see the Petro Dollar angle as less of a nuance and more of a  giant, flashing sign outside a seedy hotel window. Sooner than later you Limeys will get on board the Euro-train, and oil-producing nations will figure out that they should be trading in Euros (does anyone seriously believe that the US administration dislikes Chavez because he visits Cuba? Hellooooo?). And then we'll all have a first-hand look at how the US economy reacts to Argentina-style inflation.

If U do not hedge with Euros then U a FOO.

So, Chuck, have you sold all your possessions and invested in Euros yet?

[Nate in IA]

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If U do not hedge with Euros then U a FOO.

So, Chuck, have you sold all your possessions and invested in Euros yet?

Since when does "hedge" mean "sell all your possessions"?

[Arky Vaughan]

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If U do not hedge with Euros then U a FOO.

So, Chuck, have you sold all your possessions and invested in Euros yet?

Since when does "hedge" mean "sell all your possessions"?

Hey, why stop at hedge when the dollar's done for and Euros are the wave of the future?

[Nate in IA]

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If U do not hedge with Euros then U a FOO.

So, Chuck, have you sold all your possessions and invested in Euros yet?

Since when does "hedge" mean "sell all your possessions"?

Hey, why stop at hedge when the dollar's done for and Euros are the wave of the future?

You're welcome to do that if you wish...

[Arky Vaughan]

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If U do not hedge with Euros then U a FOO.

So, Chuck, have you sold all your possessions and invested in Euros yet?

Since when does "hedge" mean "sell all your possessions"?

Hey, why stop at hedge when the dollar's done for and Euros are the wave of the future?

You're welcome to do that if you wish...

I'm not the one predicting Argentina-style inflation for the United States.

Have they exceeded the bandwidth limits at DailyKos and MoveOn.org so that all the kooky ideas get floated here today?

[Nate in IA]

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If U do not hedge with Euros then U a FOO.

So, Chuck, have you sold all your possessions and invested in Euros yet?

Since when does "hedge" mean "sell all your possessions"?

Hey, why stop at hedge when the dollar's done for and Euros are the wave of the future?

You're welcome to do that if you wish...

I'm not the one predicting Argentina-style inflation for the United States.

Have they exceeded the bandwidth limits at DailyKos and MoveOn.org so that all the kooky ideas get floated here today?

Doesn't have to be Argentina-style... the Fed's job is to inflate the currency.  It'll be a slow death.  And these aren't kooky ideas but rather well-documented ideas.  It's going to be a big shock to people when the US can no longer prop up the dollar by having it be the only currency in which oil is traded.  Hedging that day is a wise choice, not one to be ridiculed.  Gold, Euros, Candian Dollars, whatever.  Oh, and you can't pay taxes in Euros (at least not yet).

[chuck]

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Have they exceeded the bandwidth limits at DailyKos and MoveOn.org so that all the kooky ideas get floated here today?

This is a neat trick: take an idea that makes a dogmatist nervous and associate it with a group of people that the dogmatist in question considers to be on the far-out fringe, assuming that your association somehow diminishes credibility. It's an intellectually bankrupt position which is neatly resonant with fiscally bankrupt policies currently followed by your heroes in Washington. But it works, too, with some people, and I begrudgingly approve of the effort.

Listen, do yourself a favor and at least recognize the economic precipice this country is balanced on. The Petro Dollar issue is real whether you want to be an ostrich about it or not. And we haven't even broached the Chinese pinning the yuan to the dollar. I have no desire to see the dollar lose any more value. I like to travel and I like to buy foreign goods.

But people need to quit the chanting and flag waving for a moment and take a sober look at the results and implications of many of this country's economic and foreign policy decisions over the last few decades. This country had a pretty exceptional century, and it would be nice to have another.

[otterj]

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Have they exceeded the bandwidth limits at DailyKos and MoveOn.org so that all the kooky ideas get floated here today?

This is a neat trick: take an idea that makes a dogmatist nervous and associate it with a group of people that the dogmatist in question considers to be on the far-out fringe, assuming that your association somehow diminishes credibility. It's an intellectually bankrupt position which is neatly resonant with fiscally bankrupt policies currently followed by your heroes in Washington. But it works, too, with some people, and I begrudgingly approve of the effort.

Listen, do yourself a favor and at least recognize the economic precipice this country is balanced on. The Petro Dollar issue is real whether you want to be an ostrich about it or not. And we haven't even broached the Chinese pinning the yuan to the dollar. I have no desire to see the dollar lose any more value. I like to travel and I like to buy foreign goods.

But people need to quit the chanting and flag waving for a moment and take a sober look at the results and implications of many of this country's economic and foreign policy decisions over the last few decades. This country had a pretty exceptional century, and it would be nice to have another.

Word.

(i agree good sir)

[NeilT]

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God you're a pussy.

That the best you can do?

Sorry, but I won't take the bait.

I think the village idiot just called you the Grand Canyon.

[Spack McGrimm]

This shit is done.  You can all spooge your rhetoric on each other elsewhere, fuckwads.