Bagwell Retirement Announcement????

[Ryan in Houston]

790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

[pravata]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

How is this being "reported"?  Are they saying "sources with the Astros" or is Pallilo saying "it seems clear to me..." or "Judging from what Bagwell is quoted as saying..." or "I don't see how..." ?

[Ryan in Houston]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

How is this being "reported"?  Are they saying "sources with the Astros" or is Pallilo saying "it seems clear to me..." or "Judging from what Bagwell is quoted as saying..." or "I don't see how..." ?

They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

[Fredia]

i hope it is done with the dignity and respect bagwell deserves. and with no or as little as possible ill feelings on both sides. it hurts to watch bagwell as he is now

[HudsonHawk]

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They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

Which means exactly squat.

[Arky Vaughan]

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They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

Which means exactly squat.

Indeed, it's factual to say that an announcement regarding his retirement could have come as early as last season.  Or even earlier than that.

[pravata]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

How is this being "reported"?  Are they saying "sources with the Astros" or is Pallilo saying "it seems clear to me..." or "Judging from what Bagwell is quoted as saying..." or "I don't see how..." ?

They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

Actually, no.  That's not what they said.  I listened to Palillo from 5:30 to 6.  What he said was "I'm guessing..."  I'm guessing is not reporting. It is a chittering hyena babbling to fill an hour.

[Arky Vaughan]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

How is this being "reported"?  Are they saying "sources with the Astros" or is Pallilo saying "it seems clear to me..." or "Judging from what Bagwell is quoted as saying..." or "I don't see how..." ?

They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

Actually, no.  That's not what they said.  I listened to Palillo from 5:30 to 6.  What he said was "I'm guessing..."  I'm guessing is not reporting. It is a chittering hyena babbling to fill an hour.

What's worse is someone retelling such "guessing" as "reporting."

[pravata]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

How is this being "reported"?  Are they saying "sources with the Astros" or is Pallilo saying "it seems clear to me..." or "Judging from what Bagwell is quoted as saying..." or "I don't see how..." ?

They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

Actually, no.  That's not what they said.  I listened to Palillo from 5:30 to 6.  What he said was "I'm guessing..."  I'm guessing is not reporting. It is a chittering hyena babbling to fill an hour.

What's worse is someone retelling such "guessing" as "reporting."

I have no faith in most people's abilities to report what they see.  Nor to understand how to tell the difference from a legitimate report and opinion.  Or, even care that there is a differnce. We're idiots and we're getting stupider by the minute.  I see it every day.

As for the Bagwell situation; there is this sentiment that Bagwell deserves to decide on his own, that he has earned our respect and that we should not push him out.  I think this is almost entirely a pushback against Mclane.  Because, what I see in actuality is anything but respect.  There's a mob in the shadows whispering and wagering on when he'll fall.  That's not respect.  Again, I have no faith that a majority of people understand what that means.

[Ty in Tampa]

Welcome to the Interweb!

[homer]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

How is this being "reported"?  Are they saying "sources with the Astros" or is Pallilo saying "it seems clear to me..." or "Judging from what Bagwell is quoted as saying..." or "I don't see how..." ?

They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

Actually, no.  That's not what they said.  I listened to Palillo from 5:30 to 6.  What he said was "I'm guessing..."  I'm guessing is not reporting. It is a chittering hyena babbling to fill an hour.

What's worse is someone retelling such "guessing" as "reporting."

I have no faith in most people's abilities to report what they see.  Nor to understand how to tell the difference from a legitimate report and opinion.  Or, even care that there is a differnce. We're idiots and we're getting stupider by the minute.  I see it every day.

As for the Bagwell situation; there is this sentiment that Bagwell deserves to decide on his own, that he has earned our respect and that we should not push him out.  I think this is almost entirely a pushback against Mclane.  Because, what I see in actuality is anything but respect.  There's a mob in the shadows whispering and wagering on when he'll fall.  That's not respect.  Again, I have no faith that a majority of people understand what that means.

Who is the mob? People inside the organization?

[pravata]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

How is this being "reported"?  Are they saying "sources with the Astros" or is Pallilo saying "it seems clear to me..." or "Judging from what Bagwell is quoted as saying..." or "I don't see how..." ?

They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

Actually, no.  That's not what they said.  I listened to Palillo from 5:30 to 6.  What he said was "I'm guessing..."  I'm guessing is not reporting. It is a chittering hyena babbling to fill an hour.

What's worse is someone retelling such "guessing" as "reporting."

I have no faith in most people's abilities to report what they see.  Nor to understand how to tell the difference from a legitimate report and opinion.  Or, even care that there is a differnce. We're idiots and we're getting stupider by the minute.  I see it every day.

As for the Bagwell situation; there is this sentiment that Bagwell deserves to decide on his own, that he has earned our respect and that we should not push him out.  I think this is almost entirely a pushback against Mclane.  Because, what I see in actuality is anything but respect.  There's a mob in the shadows whispering and wagering on when he'll fall.  That's not respect.  Again, I have no faith that a majority of people understand what that means.

Who is the mob? People inside the organization?

Do you have an example of "people inside the organization" speculating on when Bagwell wiil retire?

[Ryan in Houston]

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I have no faith in most people's abilities to report what they see.  Nor to understand how to tell the difference from a legitimate report and opinion.  Or, even care that there is a differnce. We're idiots and we're getting stupider by the minute.  I see it every day.
 

I mentioned a snippet that I heard on 790, if you want to get into semantics about "reporting" or "opinion" then that is all fine well and good, but it was the "news guy" and NOT Perillo.  you have entirely too much time on your hands

[pravata]

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I have no faith in most people's abilities to report what they see.  Nor to understand how to tell the difference from a legitimate report and opinion.  Or, even care that there is a differnce. We're idiots and we're getting stupider by the minute.  I see it every day.
 

I mentioned a snippet that I heard on 790, if you want to get into semantics about "reporting" or "opinion" then that is all fine well and good, but it was the "news guy" and NOT Perillo.  you have entirely too much time on your hands

I'm not sure what that last comment means.  Are you not visiing this site for information about the Astros?  Do you not care that that information is accurate? If not, then whatever time you're spending reading any of this is wasted.  As for the "news guy", I didn't hear him, why, when Palillo was asked the direct question, did he say "I guess..."?  Does Delotti (I'm spelling that wrong) have information no one else has?  No, he doesn't.

[homer]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

How is this being "reported"?  Are they saying "sources with the Astros" or is Pallilo saying "it seems clear to me..." or "Judging from what Bagwell is quoted as saying..." or "I don't see how..." ?

They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

Actually, no.  That's not what they said.  I listened to Palillo from 5:30 to 6.  What he said was "I'm guessing..."  I'm guessing is not reporting. It is a chittering hyena babbling to fill an hour.

What's worse is someone retelling such "guessing" as "reporting."

I have no faith in most people's abilities to report what they see.  Nor to understand how to tell the difference from a legitimate report and opinion.  Or, even care that there is a differnce. We're idiots and we're getting stupider by the minute.  I see it every day.

As for the Bagwell situation; there is this sentiment that Bagwell deserves to decide on his own, that he has earned our respect and that we should not push him out.  I think this is almost entirely a pushback against Mclane.  Because, what I see in actuality is anything but respect.  There's a mob in the shadows whispering and wagering on when he'll fall.  That's not respect.  Again, I have no faith that a majority of people understand what that means.

Who is the mob? People inside the organization?

Do you have an example of "people inside the organization" speculating on when Bagwell wiil retire?

I am trying to understand your comment. The mob is the media? The casual fan? The organization?

[pravata]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

How is this being "reported"?  Are they saying "sources with the Astros" or is Pallilo saying "it seems clear to me..." or "Judging from what Bagwell is quoted as saying..." or "I don't see how..." ?

They are saying, an announcement regarding Bagwell's status, in which he will likely say that he can no longer play, can be expected as early as next week....

Actually, no.  That's not what they said.  I listened to Palillo from 5:30 to 6.  What he said was "I'm guessing..."  I'm guessing is not reporting. It is a chittering hyena babbling to fill an hour.

What's worse is someone retelling such "guessing" as "reporting."

I have no faith in most people's abilities to report what they see.  Nor to understand how to tell the difference from a legitimate report and opinion.  Or, even care that there is a differnce. We're idiots and we're getting stupider by the minute.  I see it every day.

As for the Bagwell situation; there is this sentiment that Bagwell deserves to decide on his own, that he has earned our respect and that we should not push him out.  I think this is almost entirely a pushback against Mclane.  Because, what I see in actuality is anything but respect.  There's a mob in the shadows whispering and wagering on when he'll fall.  That's not respect.  Again, I have no faith that a majority of people understand what that means.

Who is the mob? People inside the organization?

Do you have an example of "people inside the organization" speculating on when Bagwell wiil retire?

I am trying to understand your comment. The mob is the media? The casual fan? The organization?

News media, for the most part.  Callers to sports radio.  Idle speculators on the web.  The Astros have been very careful not to say anything about a timetable.

[homer]

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Who is the mob? People inside the organization?

Do you have an example of "people inside the organization" speculating on when Bagwell wiil retire?

I am trying to understand your comment. The mob is the media? The casual fan? The organization?



News media, for the most part.  Callers to sports radio.  Idle speculators on the web.  The Astros have been very careful not to say anything about a timetable.



Maybe, but I think that is related to the common person's insatiable thirst for controversy... and the media's never ending pursuit of supplying the controversy. Respect (or more to the point, disrespect) doesn't even factor in because I don't think the casual fan or media really care that much.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

While I don't want to speak for Pravata, I think what he's trying to say is there is a pervasive issue that instead of focusing on factual information we  say "Fuck facts" and move straight to talk about what we/they think, feel, or think they feel on whatever subject is at hand.  Sometimes it's harmless.  Sometimes it's not.  And in this particular instance with Bagwell, in no way, shape, or form does respect for Bagwell as a person or professional athlete factor into those discussions.  

Further, this issue expands beyond sports and even sports media.  However, I don't think he's elaborating on that aspect as this is an Astros/Baseball specific website.

[Limey]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

Bagwell won't retire.  If he does, he will forfeit his salary for 2006 and the Astros will have no claim to make.  There's no reason to do that when he can be put on the shelf and the insurance company pays his 2006 salary.

Any announcement about his health would not be previewed a week in advance.

This smacks of overreaching jock-sniffers with too much (air)time on their hands and not enough content to fill it.

[pravata]

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Who is the mob? People inside the organization?

Do you have an example of "people inside the organization" speculating on when Bagwell wiil retire?

I am trying to understand your comment. The mob is the media? The casual fan? The organization?

News media, for the most part.  Callers to sports radio.  Idle speculators on the web.  The Astros have been very careful not to say anything about a timetable.



Maybe, but I think that is related to the common person's insatiable thirst for controversy... and the media's never ending pursuit of supplying the controversy. Respect (or more to the point, disrespect) doesn't even factor in because I don't think the casual fan or media really care that much.



About respect?  I think you're right about that.

[pravata]

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While I don't want to speak for Pravata, I think what he's trying to say is there is a pervasive issue that instead of focusing on factual information we  say "Fuck facts" and move straight to talk about what we/they think, feel, or think they feel on whatever subject is at hand.  Sometimes it's harmless.  Sometimes it's not.  And in this particular instance with Bagwell, in no way, shape, or form does respect for Bagwell as a person or professional athlete factor into those discussions.  

Further, this issue expands beyond sports and even sports media.  However, I don't think he's elaborating on that aspect as this is an Astros/Baseball specific website.

Considering the word of the year was "truthiness" I don't think I have to go far for examples.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

Bagwell won't retire.  If he does, he will forfeit his salary for 2006 and the Astros will have no claim to make.  There's no reason to do that when he can be put on the shelf and the insurance company pays his 2006 salary.

Any announcement about his health would not be previewed a week in advance.

This smacks of overreaching jock-sniffers with too much (air)time on their hands and not enough content to fill it.

And if he even hints at taking issue with a specific person's specific comments, they'll label him pissy, surley, abbrassive, and even bitter that he knows they are right....  again, fuck facts, let's go with how I feel about the issue.

[pravata]

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790 has been reporting that an announcement could come as soon as next week that Bagwell is done.

thoughts?

Bagwell won't retire.  If he does, he will forfeit his salary for 2006 and the Astros will have no claim to make.  There's no reason to do that when he can be put on the shelf and the insurance company pays his 2006 salary.

Any announcement about his health would not be previewed a week in advance.

This smacks of overreaching jock-sniffers with too much (air)time on their hands and not enough content to fill it.

And if he even hints at taking issue with a specific person's specific comments, they'll label him pissy, surley, abbrassive, and even bitter that he knows they are right....  again, fuck facts, let's go with how I feel about the issue.

Yes, all of the above.  I don't mind being disagreeable when I consider the opinions I'm replying to disagreeable.

[Limey]

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While I don't want to speak for Pravata, I think what he's trying to say is there is a pervasive issue that instead of focusing on factual information we  say "Fuck facts" and move straight to talk about what we/they think, feel, or think they feel on whatever subject is at hand.  Sometimes it's harmless.  Sometimes it's not.  And in this particular instance with Bagwell, in no way, shape, or form does respect for Bagwell as a person or professional athlete factor into those discussions.

It's almost entirely harmless.  It's as valid as us flaming each other over who we think should be the 25th man on the roster.  Unless the reporter has an actual fact to report, he's not a reporter, he's a pundit.

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Further, this issue expands beyond sports and even sports media. However, I don't think he's elaborating on that aspect as this is an Astros/Baseball specific website.

Most of what purports to be news these days is actually punditry.  Gutless, airheaded punditry.  And car chases.

[No? in Austin]

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While I don't want to speak for Pravata, I think what he's trying to say is there is a pervasive issue that instead of focusing on factual information we  say "Fuck facts" and move straight to talk about what we/they think, feel, or think they feel on whatever subject is at hand.  Sometimes it's harmless.  Sometimes it's not.  And in this particular instance with Bagwell, in no way, shape, or form does respect for Bagwell as a person or professional athlete factor into those discussions.  

Further, this issue expands beyond sports and even sports media.  However, I don't think he's elaborating on that aspect as this is an Astros/Baseball specific website.

Well said!

[Limey]

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Well said!

Shortest post by Noe.  Ever.

[MikeyBoy]

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Considering the word of the year was "truthiness" I don't think I have to go far for examples.

Truthiness is the perfect word. Ryan obviously wanted to hear that an announcement was coming in the next seven days, because that's not what was fucking said. I was listening around the same time as pravata and Delotti? was connecting dots saying camp breaks in seven days, so a  possible  Bagwell decision could  possibly  be announced. Total. Speculation.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Most of what purports to be news these days is actually punditry.  Gutless, airheaded punditry.  And car chases.

Yep, but I have to admit, I like a good car chase!!

[homer]

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Who is the mob? People inside the organization?

Do you have an example of "people inside the organization" speculating on when Bagwell wiil retire?

I am trying to understand your comment. The mob is the media? The casual fan? The organization?

News media, for the most part.  Callers to sports radio.  Idle speculators on the web.  The Astros have been very careful not to say anything about a timetable.

Maybe, but I think that is related to the common person's insatiable thirst for controversy... and the media's never ending pursuit of supplying the controversy. Respect (or more to the point, disrespect) doesn't even factor in because I don't think the casual fan or media really care that much.



About respect?  I think you're right about that.



No, about the whole thing. The casual fan doesn't care about facts, the respect, Jeff Bagwell as a human being, whether he will play or not, what that means to the team... any of it. The media only cares to the point that it gives them something to write or talk about.

You point out that the Astros have been careful to not give a timetable and in my opinion seem to have approached the whole situation in a very professional manner. The controversy is completely contrived.

[pravata]

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Considering the word of the year was "truthiness" I don't think I have to go far for examples.

Truthiness is the perfect word. Ryan obviously wanted to hear that an announcement was coming in the next seven days, because that's not what was fucking said. I was listening around the same time as pravata and Delotti? was connecting dots saying camp breaks in seven days, so a  possible  Bagwell decision could  possibly  be announced. Total. Speculation.

Thanks for the cleanup.  Nicely done.

[MusicMan]

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Well said!

Shortest post by Noe.  Ever.

No kidding... when the OWA version of Trivial Pursuit is released, this will replace the "What is the shortest verse in the Bible?" question.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

 This  could be a factor in why possibly there will be a statement about Bagwell's possible retirement!  Turns out going lefty isn't a choice after all.  Go figure!

edited to add:  Non-BB link...

[Limey]

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Yep, but I have to admit, I like a good car chase!!

Who doesn't?  That's why Spike TV and TBS exist.  They shouldn't be on the evening news - nor should apartment fires in Clear Lake.  OK, maybe on the Houston 24 news channel.  But when NBC, CBS or ABC have a 30 minute news broadcast, it should have content more important than "shit that happened today in places you may have driven by recently".  They shouldn't be going live to Gessner and 59, they should be going live to Bagdad, Washington, Afghanistan...

Click on the Reuters "Top Stories" link on Google or suchlike, and you'll see a raft of newsworthy items.  None of these get top billing on your local, network affiliate, news broadcast and many get no mention at all.  Channel 2 regularly gets through an entire news broadcast without once mentioning Iraq.  It's the most important issue facing the nation today, and it should be reported on every day.

Cheney complains that we're not seeing the good news from Iraq.  This is true.  We're not seeing all the bad news either.  We should be seeing everything.

[MusicMan]

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They shouldn't be going live to Gessner and 59, they should be going live to Bagdad, Washington, Afghanistan...

Perhaps we could get national media outlets to accomplish this before we work on sending Dominique Sachse to the Holy Land for the latest Palestinian political infighting?

[Golden Sombrero]

Local news is trash.  You know what you're getting--a bunch of feel-good stories, build-up to the weather, skeletal sports coverage, and a brief summary of stories you already heard throughout the day.

[Limey]

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Perhaps we could get national media outlets to accomplish this before we work on sending Dominique Sachse to the Holy Land for the latest Palestinian political infighting?

That would be nice.  Of course, Channel 2 should be able to tap into NBC's news network and leave Dominique wher she belongs - parading that enormous pair of milk jugs around Houston.

[Ryan in Houston]

Alright, I have a follow up question:

if Bagwell comes in and says, "Hey, I can't play anymore, it is too painful"  the Astros will probably DL him and try to recoup the policy, right?

I am guess this insurance thing will drag out through the summer if this is the scenario that plays out...

[Limey]

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Alright, I have a follow up question:

if Bagwell comes in and says, "Hey, I can't play anymore, it is too painful"  the Astros will probably DL him and try to recoup the policy, right?

I am guess this insurance thing will drag out through the summer if this is the scenario that plays out...

I don't know the details of the policy, but no insurance policy will pay if there's no loss.  If Jeff retires, the Astros have no loss so there's no payout.  If Jeff doesn't retire, but is deemed unable to play, the insurance reimburses the Astros for his salary.

The $17mm question is whether the policy is an all or nothing deal.  If anyone knows that, we'll have a much better idea of what could happen with Bags.

[Ryan in Houston]

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I don't know the details of the policy, but no insurance policy will pay if there's no loss.  If Jeff retires, the Astros have no loss so there's no payout.  If Jeff doesn't retire, but is deemed unable to play, the insurance reimburses the Astros for his salary.

The $17mm question is whether the policy is an all or nothing deal.  If anyone knows that, we'll have a much better idea of what could happen with Bags.

alright, well I understand if Bags says "hey, I can't play anymore, I RETIRE" then he is essentially walking away from $17M.

but, as I see it, he is trying to play, but it appears he is physically unable to perform...thus, the policy (or claim on the policy) kicks in.

[Limey]

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alright, well I understand if Bags says "hey, I can't play anymore, I RETIRE" then he is essentially walking away from $17M.

but, as I see it, he is trying to play, but it appears he is physically unable to perform...thus, the policy (or claim on the policy) kicks in.

Bingo.  And even if Bagwell and the Astros admit that he can't play, the insurers still might not pay if their doctors disagree.  Ain't it grand?

[utastro]

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I don't know the details of the policy, but no insurance policy will pay if there's no loss.  If Jeff retires, the Astros have no loss so there's no payout.  If Jeff doesn't retire, but is deemed unable to play, the insurance reimburses the Astros for his salary.

The $17mm question is whether the policy is an all or nothing deal.  If anyone knows that, we'll have a much better idea of what could happen with Bags.

alright, well I understand if Bags says "hey, I can't play anymore, I RETIRE" then he is essentially walking away from $17M.

but, as I see it, he is trying to play, but it appears he is physically unable to perform...thus, the policy (or claim on the policy) kicks in.

He's walking away from $24 million.  Don't forget about the measly $7 million option in 2007.  I thought I read somewhere that the insurance would cover a portion of that as well.

[ColdDomeFoam]

Baggy should hang 'em up...it's unfortunate the way the whole thing has blown up in the media but his retirement would be the best thing for the team. He will always be one of my favorite 'stros but we need his proposed money to land somebody else with big pop.

[astro pete]

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He's walking away from $24 million.  Don't forget about the measly $7 million option in 2007.  I thought I read somewhere that the insurance would cover a portion of that as well.

He's not walking away from anything.  He's paid no matter what.

[HurricaneDavid]

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He will always be one of my favorite 'stros but we need his proposed money to land somebody else with big pop.

What exactly is "proposed money," and what does it have to do with the Bagwell situation?

[Andyzipp]

I think the "If he retires part" is where he'd be walking away.

If Bagwell retires, the Astros have no obligation to pay him the remainder of his contract.

I assume Axelrod and the Astros will work out a settlement before it gets to that point.

[pravata]

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He will always be one of my favorite 'stros but we need his proposed money to land somebody else with big pop.

What exactly is "proposed money," and what does it have to do with the Bagwell situation?

And, who is available with "big pop" and where would they play?

[Phil_in_CS]

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alright, well I understand if Bags says "hey, I can't play anymore, I RETIRE" then he is essentially walking away from $17M.

but, as I see it, he is trying to play, but it appears he is physically unable to perform...thus, the policy (or claim on the policy) kicks in.

Its worth noting too that his long term contract was end loaded, meaning he deferred a bunch of money from when he was in his prime to the end of his career. The idea being he gave the astros a break early so they could sign other people, and would take his money later, after they were a winner, had a larger attendance, etc.

All that has come to pass, too. The money he's due this year was in large part earned years ago. Every one knew when he signed the contract he was unlikely to be able to justify a $17M paycheck the final year.

[homer]

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He will always be one of my favorite 'stros but we need his proposed money to land somebody else with big pop.

What exactly is "proposed money," and what does it have to do with the Bagwell situation?

And, who is available with "big pop" and where would they play?

I read that Mark Guerra is available for about $1400, and he can play rover. He has to miss every other Saturday though... something about picking up *trash on the highway.

* Not Anna Benson

[Gizzmonic]

HOF

[SoonerJim]

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HOF

Yep, greatest NL 1B ever. Probably third all-time. Gehrig, Foxx, Bagwell, seems about right.

[Reuben]

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HOF

Yep, greatest NL 1B ever. Probably third all-time. Gehrig, Foxx, Bagwell, seems about right.

I think "HOF" might've been in response to Homer's post, but nevertheless, you make a good point- given the likelihood that McGwire was on steroids, there really isn't a clear challenger to Bagwell for #3 all-time. It's a shame more baseball media members don't seem to realize this.

[Rebel Jew]

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HOF

Yep, greatest NL 1B ever. Probably third all-time. Gehrig, Foxx, Bagwell, seems about right.

I think "HOF" might've been in response to Homer's post, but nevertheless, you make a good point- given the likelihood that McGwire was on steroids, there really isn't a clear challenger to Bagwell for #3 all-time. It's a shame more baseball media members don't seem to realize this.

I don't think baseball media members ever considered Ronald much more than a slugger-- these are the types who love to shit on modern ballplayers, and love to praise the past or praise modern players who remind them of the past.  sure, while the clown brothers carnival was going on the media was all caught up in the ass showing, but ever since there has been little that has risen above cynicism.

[Reuben]

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HOF

Yep, greatest NL 1B ever. Probably third all-time. Gehrig, Foxx, Bagwell, seems about right.

I think "HOF" might've been in response to Homer's post, but nevertheless, you make a good point- given the likelihood that McGwire was on steroids, there really isn't a clear challenger to Bagwell for #3 all-time. It's a shame more baseball media members don't seem to realize this.

I don't think baseball media members ever considered Ronald much more than a slugger-- these are the types who love to shit on modern ballplayers, and love to praise the past or praise modern players who remind them of the past.  sure, while the clown brothers carnival was going on the media was all caught up in the ass showing, but ever since there has been little that has risen above cynicism.

I didn't mean so much media perception of McGwire vs. Bagwell, rather Bagwell's HOF/career merits. The simple fact that people don't think he's an automatic HOF. Part of the anti-Moneyball backlash (by those who think Moneyball=OBP), perhaps? That said, I am pretty certain he will be voted in when the time comes.

[mihoba]

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I didn't mean so much media perception of McGwire vs. Bagwell, rather Bagwell's HOF/career merits. The simple fact that people don't think he's an automatic HOF. Part of the anti-Moneyball backlash (by those who think Moneyball=OBP), perhaps? That said, I am pretty certain he will be voted in when the time comes.

Well... Stargell, Cepeda, and even Tony Perez made it. Bagwell should be a shoe in. If not, they need another way to vote.

[CrawfordBoxes]

Yeah he deserves to get in. His numbers resemble a hall of fame resume. The worst thing would be if somehow Frank Thomas got in and they ommitted Bags!

[SoonerJim]

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Yeah he deserves to get in. His numbers resemble a hall of fame resume. The worst thing would be if somehow Frank Thomas got in and they ommitted Bags!

That will never happen in this universe. Bagwell certainly outranks Sisler, Terry, McCovey, and other pretenders to the all-time greatest NL 1B. McGwire was in the AL until 1997. If Bagwell played in NY, they'd name offspring after him. Jeff Bloomberg, Jeff Steinbrenner, Jeff Philbin, Jeff Giuliani- you get the idea.

[mihoba]

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Bagwell certainly outranks Sisler, Terry, McCovey, and other pretenders to the all-time greatest NL 1B.

Expecially Gorgeous George, since he played primarily in the AL with the old St Louis Browns.

His main competition for the NL's best comes from the 1800's, Cap Anson. Different era, but I would still vote for Bagwell.

[doran's mullet]

Well, if the retirement talk is true, at least we have this.  

"Jeff Bagwell appears to have this invisible stool underneath his rear end."
~~ Tim McCarver, observing Baggy hit

[Reuben]

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Well, if the retirement talk is true, at least we have this.  

"Jeff Bagwell appears to have this invisible stool underneath his rear end."
~~ Tim McCarver, observing Baggy hit

"Tim McCarver appears to be an idiot and a jackass."
-- Me, observing Tim McCarver broadcast.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Bagwell certainly outranks Sisler, Terry, McCovey, and other pretenders to the all-time greatest NL 1B.

Expecially Gorgeous George, since he played primarily in the AL with the old St Louis Browns.

His main competition for the NL's best comes from the 1800's, Cap Anson. Different era, but I would still vote for Bagwell.

Not Cap Anson. Dan Brouthers was the best first baseman of the 19th century.

[mihoba]

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Not Cap Anson. Dan Brouthers was the best first baseman of the 19th century.

Anson had the higher career numbers, including 3000+ hits, but Brouthers had the 'peak' value. Let's ask Jim R who he liked to watch best.

[Lefty]

In related news, JDJO is reporting in the chron that the Astros insurance claim has been rejected.  Litigation will surely follow.

[Waldo]

ESPN link