Decent Article on Bagwell situation

[Froback]

When Justice isn't writing about his opinion he isn't a total hack.

The quotes are very interesting and gives good insight into the situation.  In case it wasn't already clear to everyone.

Also the date for the insurance decision is new to me, so that was also nice to know what the deadline was/is.

 Link

[ASTROCREEP]

Quote:
When Justice isn't writing about his opinion he isn't a total hack.

The quotes are very interesting and gives good insight into the situation.  In case it wasn't already clear to everyone.

Also the date for the insurance decision is new to me, so that was also nice to know what the deadline was/is.

 Link

It doesn't look good for a Bagwell return. January 11th
and he still can't make the throw from 1st to 3rd.

Should he go ahead and shut it down, and let the Astros
get the insurance?  

[Gulf Coast Playboy]

Quote:
Should he go ahead and shut it down, and let the Astros get the insurance?  

The article, and his direct quotes, could not have been more unequivocal that he will do no such thing.

[utastro]

Booooooo to the Astros.  I believe they owe Bagwell the opportunity to play.  He couldn't throw the ball in 2003 and 2004 either so why is it such a big deal now.  The only thing I can think of for why they want to clear salary is to make room for a possible return of the Rocket in May/June.  How much do you think 5 months of the Rocket would cost?  Maybe $15 million which just so happens to be what the insurance would pay Bagwell. If I had a choice between Rocket or Bagwell, I'd take Bagwell.

[LJ1]

About time someone gave us some details on the insurance policy.  I thought they had until after ST.  I don't see why Bagwell is hurt and angry.  Surely he understands they have to make a decision by the 31st.  Loyalty and appreciation for what he has meant to the organization only goes so far.  I think they showed the loyalty and appreciation last year by putting him on the WS roster.  I hate to see Bagwell's career end like this, but 17 million is 17 MILLION.  Bagwell showed loyalty to the Astros by staying with them and deferring money to help the team, but the buisiness side wanted the huge contract he signed.  Surely he can see the Astros have a buisiness side also.  

Curious what happens if they file for the insurance by the 31st.  Can he still continue to rehab, or do they have to release him completely.  I had thought they could DL him to see if he could come back, and if he could not play all year try and get reimbursed from the insurance company.  If he can't play and they file for the insurance, I hope Bagwell doesn't leave on bad terms with the Astros.  There is too much good history to have it end ugly.

[LJ1]

Quote:
If I had a choice between Rocket or Bagwell, I'd take Bagwell.

If he can make the plays on defense and hit about like he did in 2004, maybe.  But if he can't throw and can only pinch hit, then it is a no-brainer, give me Rocket.  

I think the Astros have been more than loyal to Bagwell and Biggio.  But I also want them to try and win.  I think Bagwell would agree.  He wouldn't want to just hang around if he can't play.  The problem is the 31st deadline.  I wish they could DL him until he COULD play and give him a chance.  But if there is a deadline, a decision has to be made by then.

[Texifornia]

Remember this, Bagwell gets payed either way. This is about his desire to play baseball and nothing else.

It would be good if the two parties and the insurance company could work a personal service deal into the thing. That way if Bagwell can't play, or can't play full-time he can stay with the club and the insurance company pay partial benefit to Drayton.

The insurance company pays something to eliminate the risk of paying a lot. Drayton covers some of his risk and keeps a franchise icon for future marketing/coaching/whatever and Bagwell gets the shot that he deserves.

[Cheo]

Great article indeed.....

First, I don't think his return hinders the chance of signing of Rocket in May. I highly doubt Pup & Dray are thinking "we can only sign Roger if Bags can't complete the comeback".

Secondly, IF (a big "if", i know) he can hit, then i'd love to have him in the lineup. Think of this potential batting order 3-7:

Berkman
Ensberg
Wilson
Bagwell
Lane

Help me out here, but how often does a 1st baseman "throw" a ball? How many 1st to 2nd or 3rd scenarios play out during a game?  Plus, he like Biggio, would be taken out in the 8th or 9th inning anyway.

Bring him on!  Good luck Bags!  Looking forward to seeing you on Opening Day!!!!

[OldBlevins]

I don't see any reason why the Astros can't file, based on his situation at that time, and then withdraw the claim if he improves enough to play, as long as they don't attempt to mislead the insurance company about the situation.  Not that they could, now that it's made it into OWA.

[Taras Bulba]

It's the 8th and 9th innings that I'd especially like to see Bagwell in the game and not on the bench.

[Cheo]

I'm with you too!  Who says we won't be a better team in 06?  Wilson and Bagwell in our lineup. Plus we'll have Berkman for a whole season...barring any flag football games. ;-D

IMHO - Roger is coming back.....

[HurricaneDavid]

I really hope this doesn't get ugly.  Also I wonder how the 1/31 deadline was set in the first place?

[Tralfaz]

Hey Drayton!  You signed off on Bagwell's inflated contract too.  I don't recall it stating he couldn't attempt to comeback from any unforseen injury so you could use his money to pay Roger Clemens.  Time to pay the piper.

[VirtualBob]

Quote:
Great article indeed.....

/snip/

Help me out here, but how often does a 1st baseman "throw" a ball? How many 1st to 2nd or 3rd scenarios play out during a game?
 

 If he can't make the throw, the situation will come up quite often ... anybody with any kind of speed will routinely go 1st to 3rd on a hit-and-run infield out ... oe maybe just a routine non-DP grounder to 3rd or short.

[LJ1]

Quote:
Hey Drayton!  You signed off on Bagwell's inflated contract too.  I don't recall it stating he couldn't attempt to comeback from any unforseen injury so you could use his money to pay Roger Clemens.  Time to pay the piper.

I don't think Drayton would have any problem with paying the contract if he could play.  The reason you have an insurance policy is in case a career ending injury happens (such as Bagwell's).  I believe Drayton and Purpura would love to pay him and have him on the team if he can play, but if he can't, use the insurance policy that Drayton payed for.  That is why the Astros took out the policy in the first place.  

Hopefully, as was stated earlier, they can file the claim and continue to let him try to work himself back to playing shape.  I don't want to see him rolling the ball to second base because he can't throw it.  And I don't want to see runs score because he can't relay a cut-off throw.  There is no room on a 25 man roster for someone that can only pinch hit.

[shortstop]

Quote:

Help me out here, but how often does a 1st baseman "throw" a ball? How many 1st to 2nd or 3rd scenarios play out during a game?  

If you have to hide a poor arm, 1B is the place to do it. You can usually get away with it, but if it's too weak, you can be taken advantage of in ugly ways, especially if the other teams know how bad his arm is. (By now everyone in baseball knows it's real bad.)

Your first  baseman is usually the cut-off man for almost all throws to home plate from CF and RF. (How were the Astros doing this before Bagwell went on the DL? Was he taking them or did the Astros do something different?)

On a DP ball hit to 1B, Bagwell would have to get enough on a throw so that Everett can make a pivot and get the ball back in time to get the batter at 1B. From what I understand about the situation, that might be a problem. Actually, anytime there is a grounder hit in the infield with men on base and less than 2 out could result in the runners taking an extra base.

Speedy runners on 1B could take huge leads and be primed to go to 2B if there is a pick off attempt if his arm were bad enough.

These are just a few of the ways that we could be taken advantage of IF his arm remains as bad as I am hearing and reading about. I'm sure a creative manager could come up with more. So, while it's true that you don't need a good arm to play 1B, you still need to be able to throw well enough to get a major league base runner out. Other than P and C, a 1B touches the ball more than any other player on the field. The bottom line is Bags would really have to have close to a career year at the plate to make up for the runs that could be stolen from us.

I think the world of Bagwell and truly hope that his throwing imporoves enough to give him the opportunity to play this year.

[Reuben]

Quote:
I don't see any reason why the Astros can't file, based on his situation at that time, and then withdraw the claim if he improves enough to play, as long as they don't attempt to mislead the insurance company about the situation.  Not that they could, now that it's made it into OWA.

Yes, it seems like there's a lot undefined here, and I wonder how important that Jan. 31 deadline really is. Consider this quote from the article:
 

Quote:
"We're trying to get some objective information," (Purpura) said. "A healthy Jeff Bagwell is what we want. If he can't be a full-time player, we have to figure out if we can collect on the insurance or not."

If Bagwell steps onto the field at spring training, the Astros may not be able to collect on the policy.
 

Sounds like there's considerable gray area there with the policy. It might be sort of like withdrawing from a college class: By X date, you can get 100% of tuition refunded, another 10 days, it goes down to 85%, etc. And correct me if I'm wrong, here, but hasn't Purp made comments elsewhere that they basically won't know anything until ST starts? Which would imply he's OK with waiting and seeing.

[Tralfaz]

Quote:
There is no room on a 25 man roster for someone that can only pinch hit.

 

That's a debatable point.  Especially if his name is Jeff Bagwell and you are the Houston Astros.  It was a good enough scenario for the World Series roster.  Now, I am unclear as to whether he has stated if he can only pinch hit, he's done.

[Cheo]

Quote:

Quote:
There is no room on a 25 man roster for someone that can only pinch hit.

 

That's a debatable point.  Especially if his name is Jeff Bagwell and you are the Houston Astros.  It was a good enough scenario for the World Series roster.  Now, I am unclear as to whether he has stated if he can only pinch hit, he's done.

Definitely from a business standpoint you're looking for Bags to end it since he'll never measure up to his contract.  

Good luck Bags. Hope that shoulder heals/strengthens in the next 4 months....

[Phil_in_CS]

Quote:
Your first  baseman is usually the cut-off man for almost all throws to home plate from CF and RF. (How were the Astros doing this before Bagwell went on the DL? Was he taking them or did the Astros do something different?)

They worked this a lot in ST last year; they did a rotation with SS covering 2nd and 2nd getting out for the cut off.
Worked OK.

[shortstop]

Quote:

Quote:
Your first  baseman is usually the cut-off man for almost all throws to home plate from CF and RF. (How were the Astros doing this before Bagwell went on the DL? Was he taking them or did the Astros do something different?)

They worked this a lot in ST last year; they did a rotation with SS covering 2nd and 2nd getting out for the cut off.
Worked OK.

Yikes ....

I don't think I like the thought of Biggio making that throw either. Can anyone think of a team with two worse arms on the right side of the infield???

[jwhudson]

This is pretty interesting stuff.  Does anyone have any information on how this video view of hitting and thowing motions works in a clinical setting?  The Link Sunday's article.

This is the first time I have heard that he has thrown a ball since last year.  If you are throwing for research purposes do you go all out, or just soft toss?

Questions but no real answers.

[Arky Vaughan]

Quote:
Now, I am unclear as to whether he has stated if he can only pinch hit, he's done.

I think he's said that if he can't play the field, he's not playing at ll.