Rogers Ego or Draytons frugality

[Navin R Johnson]

(for those who havent heard, Rogers agents just came out to announce Roger wont make a decision until late January, at the earliest!)

What is causing the hold up on Clemens signing?    I mean, everyone with a pulse knows Roger is going to sign with us at some point, so what the heck is going on?   Is it that Roger wants like 25-30 million, and Drayton is balking?  

Or is Rogers Astrodomed sized ego just milking the drama for all it is worth?

[otterj]

Good old fashioned greed.

[JimR]

what great guys Roger and the Agent Brothers are.

[Craig]

Here's an article about it ...

The Link

This quote in particular really pissed me off:

?There?s no animosity. It?s just been a magical two years. As I said to the Astros, I don?t think we owe each other anything other than thanks,? Hendricks said. ?His timetable is not the same as theirs.?

His timetable is not the same as the Astros'? Yeah, thanks Roger, we'll just build our team from Feb. 1-15. I mean, if that's OK with you. Arrogant fucking prick.

[JimR]

always has been, always will be. all about Roger all the time.

[Cheo]

partial ego, partial team make-up....

how many games last year did the offense get blanked when he kicked the mound? 8-9 times?  he wants them to get a hitter or two before making his "one more year" speech.

i doubt his non-committal will do anything. "IF" there were any truth to backe being tossed as trade bait for a bat, it won't be dangled until roger signs... Grrrrrrr.....

this will probably be a quiet winter meeting for us.....

[jaklewein]

 His timetable is not the same as the Astros'? Yeah, thanks Roger, we'll just build our team from Feb. 1-15. I mean, if that's OK with you. Arrogant fucking prick.

Ah, fuck'm.  Does his decision really matter as much as everyone is letting on?  I can't help but think the Astros need to keep Backe anyways.  Pettitte's always gonna be an elbow tweak away from being nothing more than a cheer leader...same can be said of Clemens given last season's health problems and age.  Backe keeps being the player ear-marked in every rumored deal -- I don't think we can afford to let'm go.

I'm guessing the real questions are:

1)  Will McLain allow a payroll increase to take on a big time hitter like Dunn or Abreu if Clemens were to eventually sign?  If no, then we pick up a table-scrap of a bat and call it a day....if yes, then...

2)  Can Pup actually get that bat without giving up Backe, ala using some combo of Zeke, Wandy, Burke, Lane and/or prospects?

[jwhudson]

Pup has to let Roger go now, and concentrate on what else is out there.  Roger, if you still want to play, call us in July or August.

[Reuben]

I'm sure he figures "Sure, I've already got way more money than I need, but Drayton's got way WAY more than he needs." Jesus H., even Michael Jordan wasn't this indecisive about retiring.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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His timetable is not the same as the Astros'? Yeah, thanks Roger, we'll just build our team from Feb. 1-15. I mean, if that's OK with you. Arrogant fucking prick.

Ah, fuck'm.  Does his decision really matter as much as everyone is letting on?  I can't help but think the Astros need to keep Backe anyways.  Pettitte's always gonna be an elbow tweak away from being nothing more than a cheer leader...same can be said of Clemens given last season's health problems and age.  Backe keeps being the player ear-marked in every rumored deal -- I don't think we can afford to let'm go.

I'm guessing the real questions are:

1)  Will McLain allow a payroll increase to take on a big time hitter like Dunn or Abreu if Clemens were to eventually sign?  If no, then we pick up a table-scrap of a bat and call it a day....if yes, then...

2)  Can Pup actually get that bat without giving up Backe, ala using some combo of Zeke, Wandy, Burke, Lane and/or prospects?

I disagree on Backe.  Don't get me wrong, I love the hometown kid, his enthusiasm, his pension for delivering in big games, and all the other stuff.  I even realize his stats betray how good a pitcher I think he is and will be.  However, I also don't think he'll ever be an ace type pitcher or anything more than a good middle rotation starter.  On the other hand, he's highly sought after and is at his peak trade value.  

Qualls is a great, young bullpen arm and has the potential to be a great setup-man or good closer, IMO.  However, Houston has Wheeler and Lidge filling both setup and closer roles.  

If those two can be packaged for a proven bat like Abreu, I think it's a no-brainer.  It's just my opinion, for whatever it's worth, but Abreu is an awesome stick and would definitely improve the team's offense.  

I also have my suspicions that Clemens wants to see what kind of team he's going to pitch for before committing to Houston.  The guy is 43, a guaranteed HoF, and worth every cent they pay him.  No offense to JimR, as I see nothing to disprove his reports that Roger has a big ego and is selfish, but I think Clemens has also earned the right to be a world class prick, if he chooses.  

I have a hard time faulting Clemens for having second thoughts about committing to a team that has serious flaws on offense and is likely to comeback with the same team.  He gave it all he had last season.  I think the statement his agent made was fair, if not the full truth, and Houston should move forward with the understanding Clemens is done.  Adjust your budget to allow for a possible return but don't depend on it.  If Houston isn't happy with the negotiating power Clemens has they can only blame themselves as they are the ones who made it public how important he is to their offseason planning.

Last season was an incredible experience for many life long Astros fans.  With that success, I think it's safe to assume many fans are going to want more of the same.  As Roger is the most prominent member of the pitching staff, if not the team, that puts alot of pressure on him to deliver that success.  I don't see how it's fair to put all those expectations on one guy and expect him to shoulder the load if the team doesn't have a better than fair chance at repeating that succesess.

edited to add...
in response to the subject line, quasi question.  Is BOTH an acceptable answer?

[Tralfaz]

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1)  Will McLain allow a payroll increase to take on a big time hitter like Dunn or Abreu if Clemens were to eventually sign?  If no, then we pick up a table-scrap of a bat and call it a day....if yes, then...

Listening to The Ticket on line yesterday. Norm Hitzgez was going on about one of the big changes financially in todays baseball world is that this year, due to the new MLB revenue sharing plan, every team has recieved as additional 15 million dollars to play with.    I am  mainly curious if any one else is aware of this.  Yeah, I know Norm is a boob, blah, blah.  But is this true, and if so where is Drayton putting this (Rocket piggybank fund?)and why is it not reflected in the Astros projected budget?

[ASTROCREEP]

"If I have to make a decision today, it would be to retire"...

Screw him retire then. Then in May when he finally decides he made a mistake and wants to play. Then the Astros can sign him?

But by then the Astros would have signed either Abreu, Dunn or Nomar, and the "Wallet" will be closed.

[MusicMan]

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Norm Hitzgez was going on about one of the big changes financially in todays baseball world is that this year, due to the new MLB revenue sharing plan, every team has recieved as additional 15 million dollars to play with.  

The $15M consists of approx. $2M from the XM deal, $11M expected from selling the Nats, and $2M broadcasting increases (IIRC).

[jaklewein]

 As Roger is the most prominent member of the pitching staff, if not the team, that puts alot of pressure on him to deliver that success. I don't see how it's fair to put all those expectations on one guy and expect him to shoulder the load if the team doesn't have a better than fair chance at repeating that succesess.

They played as a team all year, and in the end were good enough to make it to the WS.  If Roger's just looking at the '06 offense, and not the entire team then he can go fuck himself.

[Limey]

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But is this true, and if so where is Drayton putting this (Rocket piggybank fund?)and why is it not reflected in the Astros projected budget?

A bunch of existing players (not including the Racket) are due pay rises this year.  Notably, Pettitte and Bagwell get big jumps (IIRC).

[WulawHorn]

I really would like for the Astros not to offer Rocket arbitration.  If this is about the money, which I think that it is, he his gonna be really surprised to see nobody else out there meeting his asking price, plus all of the bullshit provisions in his contract.

Let him sign again in May if it looks like the astros need him, or let him go fuck himself.  This entire tact is bullshit.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure we will offer arbitration, I'm equally sure he will sign somewhere around 20 million and promptly break down.  I'm as pessimistic about this astros season as I have been about one in oh, forever.  

Note, this isn't a whining post, b/c I have every faith in the organization to straighten things out long term. I just see 2006 being the transition year where they have to clear out bad contracts and write money off that many thought 2005 would be.  

Hope I'm wrong, but I have high hopes for 07, and think it will be interesting to see how that plays out as I think it'll be a radically different kind of team.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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As Roger is the most prominent member of the pitching staff, if not the team, that puts alot of pressure on him to deliver that success. I don't see how it's fair to put all those expectations on one guy and expect him to shoulder the load if the team doesn't have a better than fair chance at repeating that succesess.

They played as a team all year, and in the end were good enough to make it to the WS.  If Roger's just looking at the '06 offense, and not the entire team then he can go fuck himself.

Never said anything about their success not being a team accomplishment.  However, the odds of the same players doing the same things they did the season before are low.  And my impression is he's telling Astros mgmt to put together a team excluding him from the plan.  If he changes his mind, he'll let them know as they are his one and only  choice should he choose to play.  In other words, he's not going to go fuck himself!  

I'm just saying his refusal to cow to the Astros "needs" (refer back to Limey's signature about shitting and wanting) and commit to return when he may not feel he has a fair chance at making the playoffs is being unfairly criticized.  I don't think it's unreasonable for a player of his stature to ask that commitment from a team before he commits himself.  The WC race was awfully close the past 2 yrs.  And Houston has a long way to go before they can theoretically challenge St Louis' domination of the division (and yeah, I think winning the division with a double digit lead is domination).

All I hope for, as a fan, is that Houston puts together a roster that can compete for the division title.  After that, all bets are off because anything can happen in the playoffs.  I just get the sense that Roger is not just hoping.  He's demanding they make moves that show a commitment to giving the team a competitive chance or else he isn't coming back.  Self-centered?  Yeah, pretty much.  Ego driven?  Probably.  Unreasonable?  Relative to who he is and what he can do for a team, I'd say no or it's at least debatable.

[Limey]

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I really would like for the Astros not to offer Rocket arbitration.  If this is about the money, which I think that it is, he his gonna be really surprised to see nobody else out there meeting his asking price, plus all of the bullshit provisions in his contract.

If the Astros offer arbitration, it boxes everyone in and begins a series of deadlines.  This may be a good thing, but it could force Rajah to decline arbitration, which makes him dead to the Astros.  If the Astros are serious about getting him back (and given his revenue generating properties - apart from anything else - why wouldn't they?) offering arbitration could be the worst thing they could do.

[NeilT]

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I really would like for the Astros not to offer Rocket arbitration.  If this is about the money, which I think that it is, he his gonna be really surprised to see nobody else out there meeting his asking price, plus all of the bullshit provisions in his contract.

 

I can't imagine other teams not meeting his asking price in a heartbeat.  Why do you think they wouldn't?

[Fredia]

kinda a side note but on the same subject. management has to look at rocket as more than a salary. he was a big draw at the boxoffice so to speak. have to keep the fans happy and the tickets being sold. (and no i am not sugguesting he is the only reason astros tix are sold but you have do admit he does have a impact)would be kinda funny in an off sort of way if he keeps the astros hanging till the last day then decides to retire. question all those spasims he had last year .. how much will that affect next season?

[MusicMan]

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I really would like for the Astros not to offer Rocket arbitration.  If this is about the money, which I think that it is, he his gonna be really surprised to see nobody else out there meeting his asking price, plus all of the bullshit provisions in his contract.

If the Astros offer arbitration, it boxes everyone in and begins a series of deadlines.  This may be a good thing, but it could force Rajah to decline arbitration, which makes him dead to the Astros.  If the Astros are serious about getting him back (and given his revenue generating properties - apart from anything else - why wouldn't they?) offering arbitration could be the worst thing they could do.

If the Astros don't offer arbitration, the deadlines are much earlier.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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I really would like for the Astros not to offer Rocket arbitration.  If this is about the money, which I think that it is, he his gonna be really surprised to see nobody else out there meeting his asking price, plus all of the bullshit provisions in his contract.

If the Astros offer arbitration, it boxes everyone in and begins a series of deadlines.  This may be a good thing, but it could force Rajah to decline arbitration, which makes him dead to the Astros.  If the Astros are serious about getting him back (and given his revenue generating properties - apart from anything else - why wouldn't they?) offering arbitration could be the worst thing they could do.

If the Astros don't offer arbitration, the deadlines are much earlier.

It almost guarantees Houston WILL offer arbitration, just to keep the door open.  Although the deadline Clemens and company set is outside the January deadline.  There were other comments in the article that makes me wonder if Clemens isn't fishing for a delayed start to his season.  I could be misreading the comments but this is the quote that caught my attention:

 "A player could sit out a period of time, come back and play for that club," Purpura said. "Nothing prohibits that. But obviously a player wants to put in a full season. Typically, a club wants him to put in a full season. But we're into creativity here. We'll see where we go."

[WulawHorn]

I don't think that many clubs would be willing to pay 20 million dollars for a part time pitcher who is 43 years old and broke down physically the last two seasons but hey, what the fuck do I know.

Especially when said player is not interested in showing up anytime but when he pitches.

Houston has made this deal and it has worked out ok for them, but really, how big is this market.

Also- though Roger puts AIS his revenue generation is vastly overstated.  Fact- almost all the high dollar, premium seats are sold out for next season, and will be with or without roger.  That means the additional seats sold in walk up are generally the least expensive ones in the house.   Rocket only drew an additional 2,500 or so per start over our non rocket attendance.  Figure 15 starts makes an extra 40,000 fans at the gate.  They are buying the cheaper tickets anyway- figure 25 a head to the grocer and that's a million extra bucks.  Now tell me again why we are gonna pay this guy 20,000,000 if it doesn't make good baseball sense- b/c he's a draw?  I just don't see that and figure the draw amount hasa been overrated for quite some time.

Anyone looking at this rationally cannot say that his salary pays for itself for non-baseball reasons.  

Fans come out and support a team that wins, not a team with names on it.  Spend the 20 million to go fix other areas of the team and tell Clemens to shove it up his ass waiting for a decision till mid february.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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I don't think that many clubs would be willing to pay 20 million dollars for a part time pitcher who is 43 years old and broke down physically the last two seasons but hey, what the fuck do I know.

Especially when said player is not interested in showing up anytime but when he pitches.

Houston has made this deal and it has worked out ok for them, but really, how big is this market.

Also- though Roger puts AIS his revenue generation is vastly overstated.  Fact- almost all the high dollar, premium seats are sold out for next season, and will be with or without roger.  That means the additional seats sold in walk up are generally the least expensive ones in the house.   Rocket only drew an additional 2,500 or so per start over our non rocket attendance.  Figure 15 starts makes an extra 40,000 fans at the gate.  They are buying the cheaper tickets anyway- figure 25 a head to the grocer and that's a million extra bucks.  Now tell me again why we are gonna pay this guy 20,000,000 if it doesn't make good baseball sense- b/c he's a draw?  I just don't see that and figure the draw amount hasa been overrated for quite some time.

Anyone looking at this rationally cannot say that his salary pays for itself for non-baseball reasons.  

Fans come out and support a team that wins, not a team with names on it.  Spend the 20 million to go fix other areas of the team and tell Clemens to shove it up his ass waiting for a decision till mid february.

Great, you just named ticket sales.  What about apparel, advertisement (impacted by ratings), and the other revenue streams associated with professional sports?  You are oversimplifying the discussion.  I agree fans come out and support winning teams but fans also come out to see great players.  And that sets aside the fact that Clemens contributes to the "winning" you pointed to as the sole driving factor for bringing in fans.  

I am amazed at the fans who are now trying to minimize Clemens' contribution to the past 2 seasons.  He's 43, broke down late in the season, and can't possibly continue to produce at the samel level. Yeah, hit the rode Clemens, we don't want you anyhow... sound like a bunch of pissy pre-pubescent boys.  Who wouldn't love it if every Texas born player gave Houston a hometown/home state discount or made their personal decisions on what the fans want?  But it's really not reasonable to expect it.

[jaklewein]

 All I hope for, as a fan, is that Houston puts together a roster that can compete for the division title. After that, all bets are off because anything can happen in the playoffs. I just get the sense that Roger is not just hoping. He's demanding they make moves that show a commitment to giving the team a competitive chance or else he isn't coming back. Self-centered? Yeah, pretty much. Ego driven? Probably. Unreasonable? Relative to who he is and what he can do for a team, I'd say no or it's at least debatable.

That's what most people speculated last year...that he was waiting to see if Stros management would sign Beltran first...but then when the Astros didn't, he still came back....for the money and ego boost.  I don't think for a minute that he's waiting for more offense...he's waiting for more money and more Rajah, Rajah, Rajah chants after he re-signs.  Hell, for all we know...Rajah's reindeer games could be the one hurdle keeping Pup from making a deal for the offense you're saying he craves.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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All I hope for, as a fan, is that Houston puts together a roster that can compete for the division title. After that, all bets are off because anything can happen in the playoffs. I just get the sense that Roger is not just hoping. He's demanding they make moves that show a commitment to giving the team a competitive chance or else he isn't coming back. Self-centered? Yeah, pretty much. Ego driven? Probably. Unreasonable? Relative to who he is and what he can do for a team, I'd say no or it's at least debatable.

That's what most people speculated last year...that he was waiting to see if Stros management would sign Beltran first...but then when the Astros didn't, he still came back....for the money and ego boost.  I don't think for a minute that he's waiting for more offense...he's waiting for more money and more Rajah, Rajah, Rajah chants after he re-signs.  Hell, for all we know...Rajah's reindeer games could be the one hurdle keeping Pup from making a deal for the offense you're saying he craves.

I don't think we are far off, opinion wise.  All I'm saying is Roger, whether he's motivated my ego or greed, does not want the budget process to apply to his signing.  The only differenc is, I'm not knocking him for it.  If he's got the clout to pull it off, more power to him.  It would be a beautiful thing if he were more humble, in that regard, but that doesn't appear to be the case.  

Keep in mind, while he got the dollars last year, he played 2004 for what guy like Milton et al are getting.  How does that compute with the assertion all he's after is money?  There are too many assumptions in this discussion.  Let's wait it out and see....Either way, I'm trying not to jump to conclusions.  

For example, I know the stated objective is a payroll in the 80-85 mil range.  However, it's not beyond feasibility that Houston could absorb more salary this year knowing several of the high-dollar contracts drop off the books next year.  That would be nice and awfully generous of McLane, IMO.  However, the other scenario, and more probably IMO, is if they can't land some talent without sacrificing the future, they'll play it safe again, and test the FA market next season when they will have less money committed.

[WulawHorn]

I know I only took into account Ticket (and concessions in getting to $25 bucks a head) not other revenue streams, BUT, the astros are going to sell jerseys, get tv rights/ radio rites and advertising based upon their overall record, not based upon who is on the team.

Do you really think that the astros wouldn't sell any Abreu jersey's if he's here and that makes them as good a team as otherwise.  Lets see, for $20,000,000.00 the astros could pay Manny Ramirez- would they sell any of those jerseys?  

I would posit that a Manny Ramirez would be a better bet to win games for the astros then a soon to be 44 year old roger clemens would for 20 million.

I'm not whining like a pre pubescent boy- I'm just saying that the Astros don't owe Roger Clemens a damn thing- he pitched for us for 2 years and was very well paid for doing so.  His 13.5 million dollar average, plus personal service contract, placed him in the top 5 of all pitchers getting paid- he pitched like a top 5 pitcher, call it a wash.

Ballclubs deciding to pay a player for past contributions is stupid- it ain't like Roger pitched here for much of his career that we even would owe him loyalty if such a concept existed.

He's a hired gun (and has been his whole career) that wants to set records with every contract.  His talent is such that he has deserved those record contracts in the past, but giving him $20,000,000.00 this off season is a losing money propositions, both on the financial ledger and the field of play.

[lc_db]

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...I'm just saying that the Astros don't owe Roger Clemens a damn thing...

Amen.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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I know I only took into account Ticket (and concessions in getting to $25 bucks a head) not other revenue streams, BUT, the astros are going to sell jerseys, get tv rights/ radio rites and advertising based upon their overall record, not based upon who is on the team.

Do you really think that the astros wouldn't sell any Abreu jersey's if he's here and that makes them as good a team as otherwise.  Lets see, for $20,000,000.00 the astros could pay Manny Ramirez- would they sell any of those jerseys?  

I would posit that a Manny Ramirez would be a better bet to win games for the astros then a soon to be 44 year old roger clemens would for 20 million.

I'm not whining like a pre pubescent boy- I'm just saying that the Astros don't owe Roger Clemens a damn thing- he pitched for us for 2 years and was very well paid for doing so.  His 13.5 million dollar average, plus personal service contract, placed him in the top 5 of all pitchers getting paid- he pitched like a top 5 pitcher, call it a wash.

Ballclubs deciding to pay a player for past contributions is stupid- it ain't like Roger pitched here for much of his career that we even would owe him loyalty if such a concept existed.

He's a hired gun (and has been his whole career) that wants to set records with every contract.  His talent is such that he has deserved those record contracts in the past, but giving him $20,000,000.00 this off season is a losing money propositions, both on the financial ledger and the field of play.

Well, I can't disagree with any of that.  The one caveat I'd add though is that in order to get Abreu or Ramirez, the Astros would have to send an awful lot of talent the other way.  Roger is penalty free in that regard.

Apparently I wasn't making myself clear on the dollar amount.  20mil is a ridiculous number, without question.  Will he hold up over the entire season?  Probably not but he's still been damn good.  

All I'm saying is before we know the facts, personally, I'm going refrain from villifying Clemens over perceived or anticipated demands or insults.

[WulawHorn]

Manny Ramirez was placed on irrevocable waivers last year, meaning any team that put in the claim could have him if they were willing to pay his salary.  I'm not convinced you would have to pay that much talent wise if you didn't send a bad contract back...

[NeilT]

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...I'm just saying that the Astros don't owe Roger Clemens a damn thing...

Amen.

So what does Roger owe the Astros?

[WulawHorn]

Nothing...

However, I guess I'm in the minority of Astros fans on this, but I would say that the free agent process is akin to a job interview.  Have too outrageous a list of demands (be it money- paid time off- start date) and you price yourself out of the job.

I think Roger wanting till february and drastically altering our ability to put together a team is too outrageous  a job demand, and as such, were I the stros, I would refuse arbitration.

[astro pete]

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...I'm just saying that the Astros don't owe Roger Clemens a damn thing...

Amen.

Likewise, Clemens doesn't owe the Astros a damn thing.  What is wrong with Clemens waiting to make a decision?  Drayton should do just what Roger said: go out and build the team as if he weren't coming back.  The Astros waited on Beltran a year ago and it cost them dearly.  Don't make the same mistake twice.  I recognize that the majority here thinks Clemens is holding out now to cash in later.  Of course, if Drayton goes out and adds an Abreu-like contract, it will be difficult for Clemens to demand as much as he did last year.  If he does and Drayton can't pay him, oh well.  On the other hand, who's to say that Clemens won't take less?  He has, after all, done exactly that in the past.

[NeilT]

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Nothing...

However, I guess I'm in the minority of Astros fans on this, but I would say that the free agent process is akin to a job interview.  Have too outrageous a list of demands (be it money- paid time off- start date) and you price yourself out of the job.

I think Roger wanting till february and drastically altering our ability to put together a team is too outrageous  a job demand, and as such, were I the stros, I would refuse arbitration.

If what Roger's doing is too outrageous, then the Astros will walk away.  If it's not, they won't.  From your notion, neither side owes the other anything, so both sides are free to act as outrageously as they're inclined to.  Apparently the Astros want Roger, and I can't blame them. He's likely to pitch very well, if the last 2 years are any indication.  I wouldn't bet against him, anyway.  Who else do the Astros have a good shot at who's likely to do more for the team?

Why aren't you annoyed with Ausmus for going out and shopping himself?  He hasn't said when he's going to decide, and he's out pushing his price up.

[Froback]

I might be wrong, but if you offer him arbitration you have to offer him a certain percentage raise at least.... I might be wrong, but I thought that was true.

I have already done a rough crunch of numbers.  IF the Astros' offer arbitration and IF Clemens signs, and assuming he signs for something like $20 Mil (although I have heard 22 thrown out).  The Astros payroll will go over $100 Mil for 06.  I don't think this is something Drayton wants to do, given that even with Clemens this team is not sure to even make the playoffs again, let along win it all.

I think a better move would be to trade for more offensive help and hope the pitching you replace him with isn't terrible.  Let's face it, Clemens was awesome in his games last year but he did only win 13 games... now with more offense, and 30+ starts could Zeke/Wandy pick up those wins?  Eventually you have to either use them or trade them for someone you will use, right?

[WulawHorn]

Brad isn't running around shining the spotlight on himself for ego gratification.

[astro pete]

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I might be wrong, but if you offer him arbitration you have to offer him a certain percentage raise at least.... I might be wrong, but I thought that was true.

That may be the case if it goes to arbitration.  I don't think that's true, however, if he signs as a free agent.

[NeilT]

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Brad isn't running around shining the spotlight on himself for ego gratification.

What Clemens does is news--just think what things would be like if Clemens were a real free agent.  Clemens has talked to the press. Why do you think that's for ego gratification?

I could be wrong, but the press probably isn't after Ausmus so much.

[Froback]

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I might be wrong, but if you offer him arbitration you have to offer him a certain percentage raise at least.... I might be wrong, but I thought that was true.

That may be the case if it goes to arbitration.  I don't think that's true, however, if he signs as a free agent.

If they don't offer him arbitration they cannot sign him until after May 1st.  If they offer and he rejects it, and they don't sign him by some early Jan deadline, they cannot sign him until May 1st.  If the Astros offer arbitration and he accepts, why would he sign any deal for less than what he can get minimum in arbitration?  If the Astros offer arbitration and he accepts but then announces a "retirement" he cannot sign until June 1st.  Which might work for him since he wore down at the end of last season, but if he is going to get ready for this world cup thingy, seems odd to get in shape only to take a break again... I have heard that it is hard to restart it, which is why they didn't do this cup thing in Nov.

[astro pete]

Quote:

If they don't offer him arbitration they cannot sign him until after May 1st.  If they offer and he rejects it, and they don't sign him by some early Jan deadline, they cannot sign him until May 1st.  If the Astros offer arbitration and he accepts, why would he sign any deal for less than what he can get minimum in arbitration?  If the Astros offer arbitration and he accepts but then announces a "retirement" he cannot sign until June 1st.  Which might work for him since he wore down at the end of last season, but if he is going to get ready for this world cup thingy, seems odd to get in shape only to take a break again... I have heard that it is hard to restart it, which is why they didn't do this cup thing in Nov.

Good point.  Arbitration certainly complicates things.  I'm not sure what the most prudent move is for Drayton.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Though they are his favorite team, Roger has too much history to ever be just an Astro. His standing in baseball history is next to none among active players, only the tainted Bonds is close. I'm not surprised by his massive ego, and the all-roger-all-the-time mentality that comes with it. Still, he did play 2004 at a discount, so there seems to be a little room for sentiment in his world. He has stated clearly, he only will play for the Astros. I don't know why he has to wait to decide but it doesn't fuck with the Astros' plans too differently than if he had already signed for next year, and then backed out at the end of March and retired. It's will be interesting to see how it plays out and how much money Rocket signs for.

[astro pete]

Quote:
I might be wrong, but if you offer him arbitration you have to offer him a certain percentage raise at least.... I might be wrong, but I thought that was true.

Here's the answer to this question:

"If the Astros offer arbitration and Clemens ultimately takes them to a hearing, Clemens surely would receive an arbitration award near the $18,000,022 he earned last year. Per the collective bargaining agreement, a player's salary cannot be cut more than 20 percent through arbitration. So at the very least, Clemens would earn $15.4 million."

The Link

[Gulf Coast Playboy]

Quote:
Here's the answer to this question:

"If the Astros offer arbitration and Clemens ultimately takes them to a hearing, Clemens surely would receive an arbitration award near the $18,000,022 he earned last year. Per the collective bargaining agreement, a player's salary cannot be cut more than 20 percent through arbitration. So at the very least, Clemens would earn $15.4 million."

The Link

This has probably been said before, but that's really where the rubber meets the road.  If they did offer Roger arbitration, the team will have to "assume" that he'll ultimately come on board for at least $15M (it will in essence be a player option with a floor dollar amount).  The problem is, if they are budgeting for that $15M, it will be difficult if not impossible to add salary on offense (which Roger has at least implied will be a prerequisite to his returning).  So essentially, the team is in a position where they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't with regard to Roger.  Better to NOT offer arbitration, spend the money elsewhere (if at all), and go for the longshot May 1st signing.

Frankly, the only scenarios where one could even justify offering arbitration to hiim would be if (1) Drayton intends for the payroll to eclipse $100M this year; and/or (2) There is a "wink wink" arrangment where Roger's camp has promised he will take less than $15M in January if the team otherwise improves itself enough.  The latter scenario would almost certainly run afoul of the CBA, although arguably you could justify it with Roger's travel perks, etc.

(edited for *slightly* more clarity)