Gold Gloves

[Moz]

What time is the announcement today?

[Golden Sombrero]

I don't know, but there's no suspense that Twinkie will win one for his Left Field work.

[Tralfaz]

Best deek's off a large wall in the game.

[JimR]

he has perfected the two out decoy.

[JaneDoe]

The AL didn't come out til late yesterday.  I haven't seen anything yet.
 Al Gold Gloves

[Limey]

Quote:
The AL didn't come out til late yesterday.  I haven't seen anything yet.
 Al Gold Gloves

What kind of gold gloves did they give Rogers?  Did they have Everlast on them?

[Frobie]

 NL GG Announcement

Omar Freakin' Vizquel?!

[Froback]

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NL GG Announcement

Omar Freakin' Vizquel?!

Just proves the managers and such are suckers for the incumbent just like voters at the polls are.

[Bench]

Quote:

Quote:
NL GG Announcement

Omar Freakin' Vizquel?!

Just proves the managers and such are suckers for the incumbent just like voters at the polls are.

How could it not be Eckstien? He's scrappy, or something like that.

[LonghornCDR]

Can't argue with the numbers folks.  Vizquel has the best fielding percentage and fewest errors among NL shortstops.
The numbers

[Bench]

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Can't argue with the numbers folks.  Vizquel has the best fielding percentage and fewest errors among NL shortstops.
The numbers

But he's not scrappy. That's all that should count.

[the KEG]

Could be worse, the voters gave the AL GG at SS to Jeter of all people.  

Gold Gloves are easy to win after you win one.  Or it's a consolation prize like A-Rod in 2003 when we didn't win the AL MVP.

[Gizzmonic]

I have a question for finer baseball minds than me (99.9% of the people that post here).  Is Maddux really that good of a fielder, or is he just winning by reputation?  I thought Roy or Marquis deserved a consideration for Gold Glove, but I don't watch enough of other team's pitchers to put forth much of an argument.  What do y'all think?

[Bench]

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I have a question for finer baseball minds than me (99.9% of the people that post here).  Is Maddux really that good of a fielder, or is he just winning by reputation?  I thought Roy or Marquis deserved a consideration for Gold Glove, but I don't watch enough of other team's pitchers to put forth much of an argument.  What do y'all think?

He's a very good fundamental fielder and overall good athelete, but at his current age is a wee less spry than he used to be. At this point, it's a lot or reputation.

[Tralfaz]

Hopefully we'll see Adam Everett take a Gold Glove or two in his career, since defence is his MO.  In comparing his numbers to Vizquel one that stands out are the PO numbers.  Does playing on a team whose staff yeilds the Big Three put him at a disadvantage here, meaning less hits coming his way to make PO's(209AE-234OV)?

8 E's  to 14 certainly hurt him.

One stat that is missing though.  Bad ass DP's to win the NL Pennant.  AE 1, everyone else 0.

[HudsonHawk]

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In comparing his numbers to Vizquel one that stands out are the PO numbers.  Does playing on a team whose staff yeilds the Big Three put him at a disadvantage here, meaning less hits coming his way to make PO's(209AE-234OV)?

Not sure why put outs are a big deal.  They mean little when judging how good a fielder one is.

[Tralfaz]

Right. Seems like how good a fielder one is, is an intangible for which there can be no stat.  You just have to watch him play every day, then it's obvious.

[Limey]

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Can't argue with the numbers folks.  Vizquel has the best fielding percentage and fewest errors among NL shortstops.
The numbers

I think many voters simply do a sort on Yahoo or ESPN for Fld% or Errors, and go on that.  I suppose that's one way of deciding, especially since you probably haven't seen all the candidates on a regular basis.

However, remember Biggio's first season in CF?  He had the fewest errors and best Fld% through the ASB.  No way you can say he was the Gold Glover.  AE gets a lot of errors on hits he has no right to reach (as well as too many un-forced howitzers into the Astros' dugout), so will not fare well in such a test.  Doesn't make him a bad SS though.

[Froback]

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Right. Seems like how good a fielder one is, is an intangible for which there can be no stat.  You just have to watch him play every day, then it's obvious.

That is SO true.  You know I always heard that Bagwell was a great defensive 1B, but I never really understood why that was said... I kind of took them at their word... Having seen a season without Bagwell at 1B, I now understand how good he really was.  I think when you have seen enough average fielding when you get to watch really good fielding (and like you said, everyday) it becomes obvious who is good and who isn't.  I think when you see someone only a couple of times a year, like most of us for other teams, it is hard to judge who is good and who isn't sometimes.  Jeter gets credit for the spectacular plays, but overall I don't think he is much better than average at his position.  But then, I don't really know a whole lot about the defensive qualities of other AL SS's either.  Maybe he is the best the AL has, but some how, I doubt it.

[HudsonHawk]

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Right. Seems like how good a fielder one is, is an intangible for which there can be no stat.  You just have to watch him play every day, then it's obvious.

Well, I'm not anti-stat either.  I just don't understand putouts as being important.  Assists, for example, would be a much measurement for a SS.

[David in Jackson]

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Quote:
I have a question for finer baseball minds than me (99.9% of the people that post here).  Is Maddux really that good of a fielder, or is he just winning by reputation?  I thought Roy or Marquis deserved a consideration for Gold Glove, but I don't watch enough of other team's pitchers to put forth much of an argument.  What do y'all think?

He's a very good fundamental fielder and overall good athelete, but at his current age is a wee less spry than he used to be. At this point, it's a lot or reputation.

It has always infuriated me that Maddux gets gold gloves because he very poor at a key defensive task: holding runners on base.  This should count as much, or more, as his ability field bunts, etc.

A lot of the GG voting is a joke.

[SoonerJim]

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In comparing his numbers to Vizquel one that stands out are the PO numbers.  Does playing on a team whose staff yeilds the Big Three put him at a disadvantage here, meaning less hits coming his way to make PO's(209AE-234OV)?

Not sure why put outs are a big deal.  They mean little when judging how good a fielder one is.

Bill James did a treatise on this once. I recall total chances were huge in his assessment of fielding. That adjusts for errors occurring because of a player's range.

For my money, Everett's perfect at the position. As stated on another thread, you boost offense at 1B and/or LF. there's room for opportunity there.

[Rammer]

I don't think any one def stat can measure defense ... and likely a combo doesn't do a full job ... that said despite some of its flaws I think ZR is a fairly consistant measure of pure fielding (obviously more goes into the position than that) and its not good for all positions (like catcher and first ect) ... but when comparing two players of the same position its generally pretty solid ...

this is not to say ZR is the be all end all, not even close ... it is just to say it seems players at the top of the ZR rankings typically are among the best fielders and vice versa ... always exceptions though ...