Author Topic: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??  (Read 4837 times)

BudGirl

  • Contributor
  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 17776
  • Brad Ausmus' Slave
    • View Profile
Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« on: May 29, 2019, 07:58:04 am »
Maddon on the absurd carry on balls hit in Houston's dome last two games:
“There’s definitely something going on. I’m not a conspiracy theorist – I am not. You can really gauge it on the balls up toward the ceiling, too. That one Bote caught literally almost hit the roof...

Whoever wants to admit to something or not; I don’t know if it’s a combination of the ball -- or maybe the techonlogiy of the bat has gotten better. Maybe it’s just purely about velocity. Or maybe there’s helium in this ballpark. But it’s friggin’ jumping, man.”

Thoughts??
''I just did an interview with someone I like more than you. I used a lot of big words on him. I don't have anything left for you.'' --Brad Ausmus

Well behaved women rarely make history.

HudsonHawk

  • Administrator
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 42689
  • Gentleman About Town
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2019, 08:01:29 am »
Maddon beclowns himself regularly.  Move along, nothing to see here.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

toddthebod

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3385
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2019, 08:54:29 am »
I couldn't believe that the second Bote home run (off James) actually went out of the park.  It looked like a harmless fly ball off the bat. 
Boom!

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2019, 09:07:16 am »
I couldn't believe that the second Bote home run (off James) actually went out of the park.  It looked like a harmless fly ball off the bat.

Not to me. If Bregman’s went, that one was going.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2019, 09:08:31 am »
Maddon on the absurd carry on balls hit in Houston's dome last two games:
“There’s definitely something going on. I’m not a conspiracy theorist – I am not. You can really gauge it on the balls up toward the ceiling, too. That one Bote caught literally almost hit the roof...

Whoever wants to admit to something or not; I don’t know if it’s a combination of the ball -- or maybe the techonlogiy of the bat has gotten better. Maybe it’s just purely about velocity. Or maybe there’s helium in this ballpark. But it’s friggin’ jumping, man.”

Thoughts??

Screw Maddon. That is a Trumpian diversion from getting beat by a split squad lineup.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

MusicMan

  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 25931
  • Thanks for 2015
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 09:30:29 am »
That is a Trumpian diversion

So it’s FAKE NEWS!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Lefty

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3539
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2019, 09:33:01 am »
Pitchers have been commenting on the live ball all year I thought, just like they did 2 years ago.
You may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"

doyce7

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3106
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2019, 09:40:33 am »
Pitchers have been commenting on the live ball all year I thought, just like they did 2 years ago.
The ball is definitely more lively. Homers are being hit at an all time rate

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Waldo

  • Administrator
  • Pope
  • Posts: 6506
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ashrubbery.com/
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2019, 10:28:22 am »
The ball is definitely more lively. Homers are being hit at an all time rate

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

His comments seem to be referring specifically to the balls used at MMP.

das

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3465
    • View Profile
    • Faith Home Ministries
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2019, 12:13:04 pm »
Maddon on the absurd carry on balls hit in Houston's dome last two games.

Thoughts??

One Chicago sportswriter was compelled to add:

“Maddon's tongue in cheek response to all the home runs hit in this series”

...before the quote to give context that the words alone don’t provide.
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

MRaup

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 11432
  • The goddamn Germans ain't got nothin to do with it
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2019, 12:15:35 pm »
One Chicago sportswriter was compelled to add:

“Maddon's tongue in cheek response to all the home runs hit in this series”

...before the quote to give context that the words alone don’t provide.

My tongue in cheek response is...

Joe Madden can fuck off. Ha ha ha.
"Terrorists, Sam. They've taken over my stomach and they're demanding beer." - Norm.

"Your words yield destruction, sorrow and are meant just to hate and hurt..." - Das

das

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3465
    • View Profile
    • Faith Home Ministries
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2019, 12:16:34 pm »
My tongue in cheek response is...

Joe Madden can fuck off. Ha ha ha.

Like the swallows returning to Capistrano...
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

MusicMan

  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 25931
  • Thanks for 2015
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2019, 01:10:47 pm »
If he thinks there’s helium in the ballpark, I’d pay good money for a Bregman to inhale helium before tonight’s postgame interview.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2019, 01:32:10 pm »
There is a lot of stat cast data out there for someone to look at it if someone is super interested in this.

Lefty

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3539
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2019, 07:34:10 pm »
There is a lot of stat cast data out there for someone to look at it if someone is super interested in this.

Wanna help us out?  I'd love to know what smart people have to say.
You may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"

subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2019, 10:28:40 am »
Wanna help us out?  I'd love to know what smart people have to say.

I'll see if I can get the data I'm thinking of tonight. Baseball savant has all that stuff if you can figure out how to use it.

subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2019, 09:06:42 am »
I've been kind of lazy looking into this, but here's Jayson Stark in the The Athletic:

Quote
The rate of fly balls has ticked upward by just 5 percent over the past five years. But the percent of fly balls that now sail over fences, billboards, concession stands and nearby mountain ranges is up by 55 percent over the past five years. Oh, and down in the Pacific Coast League, which switched to the major-league baseball this year, home runs are up a mind-boggling 49 percent since last year.

das

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3465
    • View Profile
    • Faith Home Ministries
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2019, 05:08:54 pm »
I've been kind of lazy looking into this, but here's Jayson Stark in the The Athletic:

Telling.

I don't like this type of baseball play.  It's too one-dimensional.  The team the Astros have fielded over the last couple of weeks has been fun.  One of the players mentioned it; going from a power-hitting team to small-ball, 1st to 3rd type of team overnight.  I do want the studs back, though....
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2019, 06:37:28 pm »
Telling.

I don't like this type of baseball play.  It's too one-dimensional.  The team the Astros have fielded over the last couple of weeks has been fun.  One of the players mentioned it; going from a power-hitting team to small-ball, 1st to 3rd type of team overnight.  I do want the studs back, though....

They have always been a first to third team. That is something Hinch emphasizes.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2019, 06:49:20 pm »
They have always been a first to third team. That is something Hinch emphasizes.

It took me a while to stop yelling at Yuli through the screen to stop doing that. Then I realized that all the Astros look to do that... so yeah, it's been a good weapon to see them use. I liked what the A's pitcher said yesterday about the Astros. Paraphrasing him, he basically said that the Astros attack you at every spot in the lineup. So when you play them, it's either the long ball or a guy using his speed to make it tough to get him out. Basically, the idea is to attack and not be passive on offense... and that means use every means possible and make the other team get you out. They'll get you out on occasion but the constant pressure is good to make the defense make a play instead of giving away outs.

Lefty

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3539
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2019, 08:02:54 pm »
I've been kind of lazy looking into this, but here's Jayson Stark in the The Athletic:


Maddon is not totally wrong.  The baseballs are different this year (not in Houston alone or anything), but just like they were in '17 and etc....
You may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"

subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2019, 11:41:53 am »
People have looked at the baseballs and can't figure out exactly what's different or the differences they do see would change the baseball so much, so there is room for alternative explanations. (Maybe all that motion sensor data, new coaching techniques, new types of PEDs, cork in the bats, all of the above).


jbm

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6615
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2019, 12:05:17 pm »
People have looked at the baseballs and can't figure out exactly what's different or the differences they do see would change the baseball so much, so there is room for alternative explanations. (Maybe all that motion sensor data, new coaching techniques, new types of PEDs, cork in the bats, all of the above).

Interesting.  By my likely flawed logic, this seems like an answerable problem, mainly through investigating what you mention, and eliminating variables:

I haven't looked at the info, but I assume that if they know launch angle and the velocity (which I assume is right off the bat) and have this data for years, the question "Do the balls fly further" is easily answerable. 

Then, I think the next question would be whether the energy transfer from the bat to the ball has changed, which would show up as higher exit velocities in the data.  I assume that somewhere, they are measuring bat speed, and can reasonably conclude whether a change has occurred there (through coaching or technique).  There's likely a variable about whether the "solidness of contact" has improved, but I would with enough data, some statistician can make conclusion on this variable with confidence.  I suppose if they conclude there is something going on here, variables like corking or other bat changes might come into play and compete with improved techniques/coaching.

It seems like if they determine that balls aren't flying further, and that the transfer of energy into the ball is the same, it would simply be that the data set is now skewed to more advantageous launch angles.

 

subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2019, 12:11:00 pm »
I hadn't read the commission report before I made that previous comment, but the report says the ball is definitely "carrying" more (as opposed to the other things I mentioned), but they haven't nailed down why that is. The report is pretty detailed if you want to dive into it.

doyce7

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3106
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2019, 12:35:10 pm »
I hadn't read the commission report before I made that previous comment, but the report says the ball is definitely "carrying" more (as opposed to the other things I mentioned), but they haven't nailed down why that is. The report is pretty detailed if you want to dive into it.
I believe I've heard/read that the seams are less raised now than they have been in the past

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Noe

  • Guest
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2019, 01:47:27 pm »
I think if you look at only the baseball as the answer for the surge in power numbers, you'd be doing a disservice to the work hitters are doing to learn more about the art of hitting. Much like the dead-ball era in baseball is often mistakenly attributed to only the baseball being "corkless", it would be wrong to only look at the ball for the answer of low-scoring, low batting average, lack of homeruns during that era. Ballparks during that era were huge and led to strategic play employed by teams. More small-ball tatics were employed so the walk, steal, bunt him over and hit a sacrifice fly ball type of play was in vogue. Today we have smaller ballparks, less bunting, more power swings employed by hitters and less pitching inside by pitchers. That and the possible tighter wound baseball lead to the surge in hitting during this era of baseball. Add to all that the turn in MLB organizations to player development led by none other than our own Houston Astros and you get the perfect storm of reasons all mixed together to tell us why we are seeing what we are seeing. And it's good because if it is not as attractive a game to younger people as say other sports entertainment venues like the NFL or NBA, and much more like Futbol (Soccer) were strategy and low scoring affairs are welcome. You will lose to that American market of high-scoring affairs. I thought I saw an article awhile back that said millennials don't like going to MLB games because it's boring. Enough said.

Oh, by the way, Brian Kenny of the MLB Network had the writers in to interview them about their new book call The MVP Machine. It was a great interview because it told a lot of what all major league teams are doing and also players (pitchers and hitters) to change the approach one takes to build a better ball player. At one point they discussed the shift in MLB organizational thinking to *other* non-used routes to help with player development. IOW - one route rarely exploited before was the college coaching route of player development. College coaches are more prone to experiment with new ideas and try new skill drills to enhance a players growth as hitters and pitchers only to have the MLB organizations tear it all down with old conventional wisdom (tribal knowledge). Well, some MLB organizations are now hiring away college coaches and their methods to employ them in their ranks above and even in some cases in lieu of conventional player development methods.

Want to know why the Astros value college draft picks more than high school? This book might give you an insight as to why.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 01:50:16 pm by Noe in Austin »

Noe

  • Guest
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2019, 02:01:53 pm »
Here is the interview by Brian Kenny: The MLB Network interviews The MVP Machine authors.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2019, 02:18:50 pm »
Here is part 2 of the interview... great stuff: The MVP Machine interview by Brian Kenny MLB Network.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 02:31:56 pm by Noe in Austin »

Bench

  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16476
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2019, 02:34:24 pm »
Did Noe just Cabrera himself?
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

subnuclear

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6116
    • View Profile
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2019, 02:40:22 pm »
I'll try and listen to that interview, Noe.

The report that I linked shows that the actual physical drag of the baseballs is measurably different from pre-All-Star Break 2015 to 2017. This is backed up by both independent machine measurements and studying statcast data.  The creators of that report actually measure the drag of the baseballs in a controlled environment and try to figure out the reason for the decrease in drag properties and they show only small differences due to different seam heights (as doyce mentioned), but see a much bigger difference in the overall roughness of the ball.

das

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3465
    • View Profile
    • Faith Home Ministries
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2019, 03:02:26 pm »
I'll try and listen to that interview, Noe.

The report that I linked shows that the actual physical drag of the baseballs is measurably different from pre-All-Star Break 2015 to 2017. This is backed up by both independent machine measurements and studying statcast data.  The creators of that report actually measure the drag of the baseballs in a controlled environment and try to figure out the reason for the decrease in drag properties and they show only small differences due to different seam heights (as doyce mentioned), but see a much bigger difference in the overall roughness of the ball.

A friend here at work, who happens to be a former MLB pitcher said it this way, "the balls are smoother and harder.  Not only do they move towards the plate differently, they leave the bat very differently as well".  His words, not mine.
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2019, 12:39:47 pm »
Did Noe just Cabrera himself?

Would not be the first time, but no this time. It's a two part video upload so I linked both interviews.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: Maddon Conspiracy Theorist??
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2019, 12:46:20 pm »
A friend here at work, who happens to be a former MLB pitcher said it this way, "the balls are smoother and harder.  Not only do they move towards the plate differently, they leave the bat very differently as well".  His words, not mine.

Add to that the fact that a ball is thrown out every time it hits the ground during the pitcher/catcher exchange. During the dead ball era, the ball was never thrown out and games were actually played with only one ball some times. Now, they use a lot of baseballs to complete a game, thus not allowing the pitcher an extra advantage of scuffing or using a scuff mark to make the ball move. I remember the complaint by Dallas Keuchel during the 2017 playoffs that the balls used in the games were smoother and thus he could not make the ball move like he was used to. The MLB claimed it was not using a different ball from the regular season so there was no reason to claim the ball was different. The only difference they claimed was that the ball was stamped with the 2017 playoff emblem. I think the ball, while maybe it is smoother (tighter seams), is also not used as frequently as in the past and this adds to the ball being smoother. What I find interesting too is that the umpires usually get access to the boxes of balls that will be used that night and proceed to rub dirt on the balls before each game. This way the balls will *not* be too smooth. Maybe they've stopped doing that?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 12:55:15 pm by Noe in Austin »