Author Topic: Keuchel vs McHugh (Read 6918 times)

Navin R Johnson · « **on:** June 10, 2018, 05:56:14 pm »

At this point, hard to argue Colin doesn’t give you a better chance to win.

Speaking of lefties, really nice to see Sipp have some success, he always seemed like a really good guy.

Lefty · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2018, 06:01:51 pm »

Keuchel needs a Dodger-style 10-day DL vacation.

das · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2018, 07:00:58 pm »

Quote from: Lefty on June 10, 2018, 06:01:51 pm

Keuchel needs a Dodger-style 10-day DL vacation.

Yup. Not his normal self. He requires razor sharp command to live at the bottom and he seems off the slightest bit so he comes up a hair to get the calls and gets hit. Seems the umps are also not giving him the Cy-benefit-of-the-doubt either.

In classic stupid big fat mouth Keuchel form, he’s been spouting off publicly that he feels great so a 10-day tuneup will be hard to justify.

Lefty · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2018, 07:40:16 pm »

Quote from: das on June 10, 2018, 07:00:58 pm

Yup. Not his normal self. He requires razor sharp command to live at the bottom and he seems off the slightest bit so he comes up a hair to get the calls and gets hit. Seems the umps are also not giving him the Cy-benefit-of-the-doubt either.

In classic stupid big fat mouth Keuchel form, he’s been spouting off publicly that he feels great so a 10-day tuneup will be hard to justify.

https://twitter.com/HunterAtkins35/status/1005943595688517635

https://twitter.com/HunterAtkins35/status/1005960713351974912

Reuben · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2018, 02:55:22 pm »

I didn't see the game. How many of the 13 hits he allowed did Dallas have a legitimate beef about, ie. weakly-hit grounders that found holes or sloppy play by his fielders (hopefully he was not implicating his teammates; hard to know with DK)?

Bench · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2018, 03:09:18 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on June 11, 2018, 02:55:22 pm

I didn't see the game. How many of the 13 hits he allowed did Dallas have a legitimate beef about, ie. weakly-hit grounders that found holes or sloppy play by his fielders (hopefully he was not implicating his teammates; hard to know with DK)?

He was getting hit plenty. In his defense the HPU was stingy with strikes on the left edge of the plate, especially against righties, which is an important location for Keuchel.

Jacksonian · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2018, 03:25:14 pm »

Quote from: Reuben on June 11, 2018, 02:55:22 pm

I didn't see the game. How many of the 13 hits he allowed did Dallas have a legitimate beef about, ie. weakly-hit grounders that found holes or sloppy play by his fielders (hopefully he was not implicating his teammates; hard to know with DK)?

He was bitching about the shift. Maybe 3 or 4 hits would have had plays made on them if the infield were in their normal positions. There were not many (any?) weakly hit balls though.

JimR · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2018, 03:30:37 pm »

Quote from: Bench on June 11, 2018, 03:09:18 pm

He was getting hit plenty. In his defense the HPU was stingy with strikes on the left edge of the plate, especially against righties, which is an important location for Keuchel.

I think he has no defense. He threw BP to the Rangers, then he threw his team under the bus.

Fredia · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2018, 03:40:26 pm »

agreed and not good for being a clubhouse comrade

Astros Fan in Big D · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2018, 04:04:46 pm »

Quote from: JimR on June 11, 2018, 03:30:37 pm

I think he has no defense. He threw BP to the Rangers, then he threw his team under the bus.

After Seattle game he said "either I'm tipping or they're getting signs from Stassi" when asked about the Seager HR.

Or you left a FB belt high on the outside corner.

https://twitter.com/brianmctaggart/status/1004196249791291394?s=19

I hope his everything is fine attitude doesn't translate to his work between starts and he regains form.

Opponents hitting .300 against his slider this year per Sparks. Mind boggling.

Alkie · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2018, 06:38:02 pm »

I'm not sure which thing about Dallas is more disappointing:

a) that his girlfriend/wife isn't named Deborah OR
b) his shit attitude.

WVastro · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2018, 08:13:32 pm »

Fuck all this Keuchel hate... he’s a big part of this team.

Jacksonian · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2018, 08:16:58 pm »

Quote from: WVastro on June 11, 2018, 08:13:32 pm

Fuck all this Keuchel hate... he’s a big part of this team.

Well, a big part of the need for this team to score runs.

WVastro · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2018, 09:06:43 pm »

Quote from: Jacksonian on June 11, 2018, 08:16:58 pm

Well, a big part of the need for this team to score runs.

All of this feels so short sighted. But... I’ll admit I’m a homer so we’ll see

WVastro · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2018, 09:13:21 pm »

I’ll follow up that statement with at least a bit more substance. We have a former cy young winner in a insanely good rotation and after a short string of bad starts this place wants to put him in the bullpen. Madness. I’m glad we have rational people making these decisions and not us. Shit happens. Slumps happen.

mrpink · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2018, 06:16:21 am »

Quote from: JimR on June 11, 2018, 03:30:37 pm

he threw his team under the bus.

I didn’t get that impression at all after watching the interview.

JimR · « **Reply #16 on:** June 12, 2018, 06:21:11 am »

Quote from: mrpink on June 12, 2018, 06:16:21 am

I didn’t get that impression at all after watching the interview.

“I am fine. There were 11 ground balls which should have been outs.”

Did you watch the game? There were not 11 7-hoppers which went through shift-vacated spaces. If they “should have been outs,” why were they not outs?

JimR · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2018, 06:24:10 am »

Quote from: WVastro on June 11, 2018, 09:13:21 pm

I’ll follow up that statement with at least a bit more substance. We have a former cy young winner in a insanely good rotation and after a short string of bad starts this place wants to put him in the bullpen. Madness. I’m glad we have rational people making these decisions and not us. Shit happens. Slumps happen.

Key word there is “former.” If you can watch his starts and listen to his denial bullshit and still think all is well, I do not know what to tell you. I still am waiting for the substance.

toddthebod · « **Reply #18 on:** June 12, 2018, 09:20:14 am »

Quote from: Jacksonian on June 11, 2018, 03:25:14 pm

He was bitching about the shift. Maybe 3 or 4 hits would have had plays made on them if the infield were in their normal positions. There were not many (any?) weakly hit balls though.

Those hits against the shift came early. And it seemed at the time that they totally through Keuchel off his game.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #19 on:** June 12, 2018, 10:45:57 am »

It’s weird that you never hear pitchers bring up all the times hits get saved by the shift...

drew corleone · « **Reply #20 on:** June 12, 2018, 10:58:59 am »

I did not see the game because I was watching Texas, but I Justice weighed in yesterday on Twitter, FWIW...

Quote

Dallas Keuchel, part 1. Never seen @kidkeuchy as frustrated as he was on Sunday. @Statcast reveals his start may have been the unluckiest of the season in the majors:
--3 of 13 hits (23.1%) qualified as hard-hit, which is ridiculously bad luck.
(continued)

Quote

.@KidKeuchy, part 2:
--Overall 11th-lowest rate of hard contact among any pitcher with 20 batted balls .
--Opponenets 13 for 25 (.525) on Sunday. Expected BA based on contact and launch angle was .280. That 240-point gap largest of season of 1,700 Ps facing 20+ batters

He seems to lean toward "unlucky."

Further, most of the national guys I've seen comment have taken a very bullish approach toward Keuchel.

Looking at his season to date he only had one bad start in his first 11, and now three stinkers in a row.

I think I probably lean more toward the "he'll turn it around" camp (though it does concern me that if he's not hitting his spots things fall apart very quickly), but at the same time I wish he'd keep his mouth shut. He makes it difficult to cheer for sometimes.

All that said... if they wanted to give him a couple of weeks on the DL to reset I wouldn't feel the least bit bad to see McHugh come in and get a chance to start. And if the postseason started today - admittedly a nonsensical and mostly irrelevant hypothetical - Keuchel should not be in the rotation, and maybe not even on the roster.

Bench · « **Reply #21 on:** June 12, 2018, 11:00:25 am »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on June 12, 2018, 10:45:57 am

It’s weird that you never hear pitchers bring up all the times hits get saved by the shift...

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/03/houston-astros-defensive-shifts-mlb

“I wasn’t really opposed to it, just because I knew I induce a lot of groundballs,” Keuchel said of his team’s tendency to shift. “And they said they had a five-year record of people to shift against, and stuff like that. Those guys are smart. They know what they’re doing. It’s not my job to second guess what they’re doing.

“Now, I love it. I really do. People say you can always pick out the bad shifts, where balls go through, but there were probably 100 times where the shift helped me out, where I miscalculated the ball as it went right up the middle, and there’s (second baseman Jose) Altuve standing right behind second base. So I’m a big fan of it.”

Jacksonian · « **Reply #22 on:** June 12, 2018, 11:11:51 am »

Quote from: drew corleone on June 12, 2018, 10:58:59 am

I did not see the game because I was watching Texas, but I Justice weighed in yesterday on Twitter, FWIW...

He seems to lean toward "unlucky."

Further, most of the national guys I've seen comment have taken a very bullish approach toward Keuchel.

Looking at his season to date he only had one bad start in his first 11, and now three stinkers in a row.

I think I probably lean more toward the "he'll turn it around" camp (though it does concern me that if he's not hitting his spots things fall apart very quickly), but at the same time I wish he'd keep his mouth shut. He makes it difficult to cheer for sometimes.

All that said... if they wanted to give him a couple of weeks on the DL to reset I wouldn't feel the least bit bad to see McHugh come in and get a chance to start. And if the postseason started today - admittedly a nonsensical and mostly irrelevant hypothetical - Keuchel should not be in the rotation, and maybe not even on the roster.

I don't know what constitutes "hard hit" but he gave up a lot of line drives. That means he either left too many pitches up or down the middle. Either way he can't get away with that kind of location very often.

JimR · « **Reply #23 on:** June 12, 2018, 11:36:07 am »

Quote from: Jacksonian on June 12, 2018, 11:11:51 am

I don't know what constitutes "hard hit" but he gave up a lot of line drives. That means he either left too many pitches up or down the middle. Either way he can't get away with that kind of location very often.

Exactly.

Astros Fan in Big D · « **Reply #24 on:** June 12, 2018, 12:28:56 pm »

2017, 23 starts
15 HR, 18 2B, BB9 2.9 ERA 2.90, SO/9 7.7, H/9 0.9
WAR 3.4
2018 13 Starts
12 HR, 19 2B, BB9 2.5 ERA 4.93, SO/9 7.0, H/9 1.3
WAR 0.4

In 10 fewer starts he's given up 1 more double than last year and he's only 3 behind last year's HR total.

I like him and hope he turns it around. But *most* extra base hits aren't bad luck.

JimR · « **Reply #25 on:** June 12, 2018, 04:24:55 pm »

Quote from: Astros Fan in Big D on June 12, 2018, 12:28:56 pm

2017, 23 starts
15 HR, 18 2B, BB9 2.9 ERA 2.90, SO/9 7.7, H/9 0.9
WAR 3.4
2018 13 Starts
12 HR, 19 2B, BB9 2.5 ERA 4.93, SO/9 7.0, H/9 1.3
WAR 0.4

In 10 fewer starts he's given up 1 more double than last year and he's only 3 behind last year's HR total.

I like him and hope he turns it around. But *most* extra base hits aren't bad luck.

I hope he turns it around because he plays for the Astros, but I do not like him. Not required.

Knoxbanedoodle · « **Reply #26 on:** June 12, 2018, 04:35:41 pm »

Quote from: JimR on June 12, 2018, 04:24:55 pm

I hope he turns it around because he plays for the Astros, but I do not like him. Not required.

Ditto.

VirtualBob · « **Reply #27 on:** June 12, 2018, 05:02:51 pm »

Quote from: JimR on June 12, 2018, 04:24:55 pm

I hope he turns it around because he plays for the Astros, but I do not like him. Not required.

I agree. And sad, too, because I really DID like him (and his attitude) as he was coming through the system. The success has gone to his head, though.

Lefty · « **Reply #28 on:** June 12, 2018, 05:24:15 pm »

Quote from: JimR on June 12, 2018, 04:24:55 pm

I hope he turns it around because he plays for the Astros, but I do not like him. Not required.

This.

I used to root for Carlos Gomez too.

JimR · « **Reply #29 on:** June 12, 2018, 10:25:23 pm »

Quote from: VirtualBob on June 12, 2018, 05:02:51 pm

I agree. And sad, too, because I really DID like him (and his attitude) as he was coming through the system. The success has gone to his head, though.

Yes, it has.

Fredia · « **Reply #30 on:** June 14, 2018, 09:18:06 am »

interesting article especially if you are into the stats why Keuchel pitching is not working

https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2018/6/13/17454146/the-cause-of-keuchels-slide-the-slider-astros-trending-part-1

jaklewein · « **Reply #31 on:** June 15, 2018, 09:53:15 am »

I've been worried about Keuchel since last year's playoffs. Reason being...he gets by with pinpoint control, but I also believe he has always succeeded via the Tom Glavine treatment to some extent. You know, work the strikezone in such a way that you're getting an extra 3" to 6" off the plate by the 2nd or 3rd inning. Well....in the playoffs, that damn box they put on the TV screen was used alot, and is being used a ton in baseball in general. This is forcing umps to actually stick to a strikezone and IMO, making life a lot tougher on Kuechel. I worry this will continue and he will not be able to have the success he has had in the past.

TerryPuhl21 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 15, 2018, 11:31:08 am »

Quote from: jaklewein on June 15, 2018, 09:53:15 am

I've been worried about Keuchel since last year's playoffs. Reason being...he gets by with pinpoint control, but I also believe he has always succeeded via the Tom Glavine treatment to some extent. You know, work the strikezone in such a way that you're getting an extra 3" to 6" off the plate by the 2nd or 3rd inning. Well....in the playoffs, that damn box they put on the TV screen was used alot, and is being used a ton in baseball in general. This is forcing umps to actually stick to a strikezone and IMO, making life a lot tougher on Kuechel. I worry this will continue and he will not be able to have the success he has had in the past.

This is a great point and I’m not sure his stuff is good enough to get guys out at an elite type level if he has to throw the ball in the zone more often to get strikes called. The strike zone and the way it is called may take him from being a 1 or a 2 on a staff to being a 4 or 5 type guy. The rest of the season will be interesting, not because of whether or not we resign him, we don’t in my opinion, but rather how he’s able to adjust to some adversity based on where he has to pitch the ball to get strikes called.

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Fredia · « **Reply #33 on:** June 16, 2018, 08:40:14 am »

today will be another test for Keuchel. if he caves he can not blame it on the record of the royals