Author Topic: New Pace of Play Agreement  (Read 6432 times)


JimR

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2018, 02:23:19 pm »
Wow, the mound visit rule is tough.
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doyce7

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2018, 02:39:14 pm »
Wow, the mound visit rule is tough.
Especially that a short stop stepping over and saying "hey, you got this" is considered a "mound visit." Quite stupid if you ask me

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 02:53:36 pm »
Wow, the mound visit rule is tough.

"Also, if a team has exhausted their six mound visits, the umpire has the discretion to allow the catcher to visit the pitcher following a cross-up. The MLBPA had concerns about potential injuries resulting from the battery getting their signs mixed up."

Especially after the catcher thinks a curve is coming, but the fastball goes straight into the ump's gut.
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JimR

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 03:15:41 pm »
Especially that a short stop stepping over and saying "hey, you got this" is considered a "mound visit." Quite stupid if you ask me

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That is the part I meant. Infielders must stay away.
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Ron Brand

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 03:34:07 pm »
What a load of shit. It's painfully obvious that the whale in all of this is the increased commercials. Just own up to it, change it or don't, but don't pervert the game on the field because of the need to squeeze money out of every single second.

ETA: Well, ok, that and replay delays.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 03:36:06 pm »
That is the part I meant. Infielders must stay away.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 03:44:48 pm »
If you have six players at the mound discussing wedding gifts, does that count as six separate visits? I just never saw much delay in infielder visits.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 03:49:55 pm »
What a load of shit. It's painfully obvious that the whale in all of this is the increased commercials. Just own up to it, change it or don't, but don't pervert the game on the field because of the need to squeeze money out of every single second.

ETA: Well, ok, that and replay delays.
Commercials have been shortened which is the only good thing to come from all this

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Ron Brand

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 03:53:30 pm »
Commercials have been shortened which is the only good thing to come from all this

They have, but not nearly enough. Every single break in the action is a break to commercial. Maybe limiting mound visits will have an effect on commercial breaks, but I'd like to see something a little stronger on in-inning breaks.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 03:56:53 pm »
They have, but not nearly enough. Every single break in the action is a break to commercial. Maybe limiting mound visits will have an effect on commercial breaks, but I'd like to see something a little stronger on in-inning breaks.

The only in-inning breaks that lead to commercial I can think of are pitching changes.  I don't remember anyone being injured so badly on the field that the tv went to commercial.  Do they take breaks for replays?
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 04:01:38 pm »
The thing that rather irritated me about commercials during the playoffs was that picture-in-picture thing.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 04:02:59 pm »
so many pitchers have this whole thing they go through and pacing round the mound etc.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2018, 04:24:43 pm »
I like the changes. There were numerous times last year when a catcher would sprint out after nearly every pitch because an Astro was on second. Drove me nuts.

Ron Brand

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 04:26:05 pm »
The only in-inning breaks that lead to commercial I can think of are pitching changes.  I don't remember anyone being injured so badly on the field that the tv went to commercial.  Do they take breaks for replays?

Yeah, sometimes.

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JimR

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 04:40:51 pm »
I like the changes. There were numerous times last year when a catcher would sprint out after nearly every pitch because an Astro was on second. Drove me nuts.

McCann did it too. This is all part of baseball.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 04:42:48 pm »
The thing that rather irritated me about commercials during the playoffs was that picture-in-picture thing.

I imagine the advertisers were irritated by that also.

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 05:07:13 pm »
I think you are going to see more of the picture in a picture ad overlays during the action.  MLB will make up the ad revenue lost by the reduced commercial breaks by imposing the commercial overlays during the game in a way similar to televised pro soccer games.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2018, 08:38:03 am »
so many pitchers have this whole thing they go through and pacing round the mound etc.

That and the corresponding batting routines.  It seems that each pitch takes longer than it used to.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 08:40:10 am »
Wow, the mound visit rule is tough.

Is there any data about how many mound visits occurred in an average game the last few years?  I haven't seen that quantified in any of the articles I've read. 
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2018, 08:59:46 am »
This article on pace of play in 1984 to today by Grant Brisbee is anecdotal but interesting.

Verlander made some comments that the mound visits are necessary to avoid the increased efforts to steal signs.

I haven't seen any stats on mound visits either.

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2018, 10:03:32 am »
Is there any data about how many mound visits occurred in an average game the last few years?  I haven't seen that quantified in any of the articles I've read.

Do not know about regular season, but there were a gazillion in the postseason.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2018, 10:49:03 am »
So, what's the penalty if you break the 6 visits rule?

Also, the CBS article linked above says pitcher-catcher conferences between batters don't count toward the six visits. That seems like a big exception.
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JimR

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2018, 11:49:39 am »
So, what's the penalty if you break the 6 visits rule?

Also, the CBS article linked above says pitcher-catcher conferences between batters don't count toward the six visits. That seems like a big exception.

You must change pitchers, I think. A danger is an infielder forgetting and going to the mound after the pitching coach already has been out in the same inning.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 01:30:16 pm by JimR »
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2018, 12:14:23 pm »
McHugh (Astros' player reps) says despite how Manfred is pitching it, the players did NOT agree to these rules.

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2018, 12:48:11 pm »
Their reps did. Under the CBA, Mandred could only unilaterally implement the rules proposed last year. The pitch clock was among those rules. Therefore, this had to be agreed.


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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2018, 01:28:44 pm »
Their reps did. Under the CBA, Mandred could only unilaterally implement the rules proposed last year. The pitch clock was among those rules. Therefore, this had to be agreed.


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Listening to him it sure sounds like he's saying the reps did not.  That would make this all kinds of weird.
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NeilT

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2018, 04:55:33 pm »
You must change pitchers, I think. A danger is an infielder forgetting and going to the mound after the pitching coach already has been out in the same inning.

That'll speed things up.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2018, 08:03:15 am »
I’m fine with the rule, especially once I read this part

There are mound visit exemptions
There are, of course, exemptions to the mound visit rule. The following does not count against each team's mount visit total:
A pitcher-catcher conference between batters.
An infielder goes to the mound to clean his spikes during rainy conditions.
Any visit involving a potential injury.
Any visit after a pinch-hitter is announced.

So the rule only applies to visits during at bats.  Between hitters it doesn’t apply. I’d think ditching the rules after the 7th inning and during the playoffs would be something worth considering.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2018, 06:42:53 am »
It is going to impact the stall tactics to give relievers more time to warm up. 

Also, it is a part of baseball culture that if the ump takes a direct hit from a wild pitch or foul ball, the catcher goes out to the mound to give him time to gather himself.  Does the injury clause cover that? 
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2018, 08:36:06 am »
Only defensive limitations.  How about limiting batter time outs per game?

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2018, 11:08:10 am »
This is a step in the right direction.  I'm pro pitch clock, but more importantly I think they just need to go back to keeping the batters in the box.  When they did that a few years ago with fines the game times dropped.  Then that initiative went away for whatever reason and game times went back up.  If you do this then the game flows quicker, and without the mound visits we avoid random stoppages of play.  My last request would be only 2 warm up pitches for relievers once they enter the game.

I went to the Rockets game last night, and even though I'd much rather go to an Astros game - at the Rockets game I was not constantly wondering how late I would be there.  Instead it was "wow the game is already in the 4th quarter?"  Baseball probably will never be like that, but I think the flow needs to improve.

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2018, 11:41:58 am »
Put me in the list of people who do not give a damn about how long games last.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2018, 11:55:54 am »
preaching to the choir from one with a daughter in her much younger days would cry when the game was over
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2018, 12:30:52 pm »
Put me in the list of people who do not give a damn about how long games last.

+1
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2018, 02:18:03 pm »
This is a step in the right direction.  I'm pro pitch clock, but more importantly I think they just need to go back to keeping the batters in the box.  When they did that a few years ago with fines the game times dropped.  Then that initiative went away for whatever reason and game times went back up.  If you do this then the game flows quicker, and without the mound visits we avoid random stoppages of play.  My last request would be only 2 warm up pitches for relievers once they enter the game.

I went to the Rockets game last night, and even though I'd much rather go to an Astros game - at the Rockets game I was not constantly wondering how late I would be there.  Instead it was "wow the game is already in the 4th quarter?"  Baseball probably will never be like that, but I think the flow needs to improve.

I don't think that 2 warmup pitches for relievers is a good idea. No matter how warm you are from the 'pen the game mound has a different feel. Particularly if you are a visiting pitcher not used to the mound.

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2018, 02:19:11 pm »
+1

I'll add my name to the list. But I'm now retired and don't have to go anywhere in the morning.

doyce7

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2018, 03:08:00 pm »
I don't think that 2 warmup pitches for relievers is a good idea. No matter how warm you are from the 'pen the game mound has a different feel. Particularly if you are a visiting pitcher not used to the mound.
100% agree, every single mound is different and 2 pitches isn't nearly enough to adjust

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2018, 03:19:45 pm »
I don't think that 2 warmup pitches for relievers is a good idea. No matter how warm you are from the 'pen the game mound has a different feel. Particularly if you are a visiting pitcher not used to the mound.

I don't think that two warmup tosses is enough for anyone, but the right number depends upon the guy and the number of innings/pitches thrown. Eight is an arbitrary number that has worked satisfactorially for a while. I'd hesitate about changing it. Perhaps allow the pitcher to voluntarily surrender some warmup tosses.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2018, 09:22:11 pm »
I'll add my name to the list. But I'm now retired and don't have to go anywhere in the morning.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2018, 07:21:11 am »
I'll add my name to the list. But I'm now retired and don't have to go anywhere in the morning.

Time zone issue mound visits rule will not fix.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2018, 09:10:38 am »
I'll add my name to the list. But I'm now retired and don't have to go anywhere in the morning.

i'm not retired and live on the east coast and have to be at work early and I still don't care about the length of the games.  If I fall asleep, I just watch/listen to the rest of the game on my commute the next morning before I check the score.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2018, 09:19:12 pm »
Oh, no. They're implementing the runner on second in extras in the minor leagues this season.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/03/minor-league-baseball-announces-pace-of-play-rules-changes.html

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2018, 10:16:21 pm »
Oh, no. They're implementing the runner on second in extras in the minor leagues this season.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/03/minor-league-baseball-announces-pace-of-play-rules-changes.html
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2018, 10:39:35 am »
I have no problem with this in the minors. This isn’t about pace of play. It is about getting players on buses for 8 hour road trips at a better time. There is no value for an extra inning game from a developmental standpoint.


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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2018, 11:04:04 am »
I have no problem with this in the minors. This isn’t about pace of play. It is about getting players on buses for 8 hour road trips at a better time. There is no value for an extra inning game from a developmental standpoint.


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That's a great point I wouldn't have considered from here in my armchair. I just desperately hope it doesn't happen in MLB.

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2018, 12:06:06 pm »
I have no problem with this in the minors. This isn’t about pace of play. It is about getting players on buses for 8 hour road trips at a better time. There is no value for an extra inning game from a developmental standpoint.


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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2018, 12:40:31 pm »
I have no problem with this in the minors. This isn’t about pace of play. It is about getting players on buses for 8 hour road trips at a better time. There is no value for an extra inning game from a developmental standpoint.


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Why not just let them be a tie, then? The runner on 2B thing is so silly, and I’m worried that this is Manfred “testing it out” to eventually impose in the majors.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2018, 01:22:22 pm »
This changes the very fabric of the game and that is unacceptable. So fucking stupid. I'm fine with speeding up the game a bit, but don't fucking change the game.

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2018, 01:23:30 pm »
I saw that for the purpose of keeping stats, the second-base runner won't affect the pitcher's ERA and will be considered to have reached by error. Except no one committed an error, so I guess ghost runners are now a real thing.

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2018, 01:26:47 pm »
Why not just let them be a tie, then? The runner on 2B thing is so silly, and I’m worried that this is Manfred “testing it out” to eventually impose in the majors.

I agree with this. This is a gateway to harder stuff.

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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2018, 01:56:06 pm »
The other thing to remember is that my son's generation as grown up with this rule in travel ball.  This isn't as foreign a concept to them as it is to us.
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Re: New Pace of Play Agreement
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2018, 08:42:36 pm »
So in the year 2018 the problem of minor league travel has finally escalated to the point that we need to start an extra inning with a runner on 2B?

I smell a rat.   

In other news the NFL will adopt P for K and All-Time QB in the 2018 preseason.