Author Topic: Suspensions (Read 6894 times)

MusicMan · « **on:** January 23, 2018, 04:30:05 pm »

Dean Deetz, recently added to the 40-man, suspended 80 games for PEDs.

Jonathan Singleton, to nobody’s surprise, suspended 100 games for his third “drug of abuse” violation.

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Fredia · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2018, 04:46:17 pm »

I dont understand. How can you throw it all away?

MusicMan · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2018, 04:51:41 pm »

Quote from: Fredia on January 23, 2018, 04:46:17 pm

I dont understand. How can you throw it all away?

Because addiction is a hell of a thing.

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Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2018, 04:57:28 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on January 23, 2018, 04:51:41 pm

Because addiction is a hell of a thing.

I don't know if he is an addict but I'm pretty sure he is a dumbass.

TerryPuhl21 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2018, 05:13:24 pm »

Quote from: Sphinx Drummond on January 23, 2018, 04:57:28 pm

I don't know if he is an addict but I'm pretty sure he is a dumbass.

This all day.

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Duman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2018, 05:27:22 pm »

He is an addict. He has said it and he went to rehab back in 2012.
Read this to learn more.

It is okay to be a jerk about other people's problems but at least be a well informed jerk.

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2018, 05:46:09 pm »

If his "problem" is bad enough that he can't keep from relapsing then perhaps it would be best for him to step away from baseball and concentrate on the issue rather than continuing to drag the Astros down with him.

JimR · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2018, 05:56:43 pm »

Quote from: Duman on January 23, 2018, 05:27:22 pm

He is an addict. He has said it and he went to rehab back in 2012.
Read this to learn more.

It is okay to be a jerk about other people's problems but at least be a well informed jerk.

This.

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2018, 08:24:59 pm »

Quote from: Duman on January 23, 2018, 05:27:22 pm

He is an addict. He has said it and he went to rehab back in 2012.
Read this to learn more.

It is okay to be a jerk about other people's problems but at least be a well informed jerk.

Yeah yeah, I read that and more. I know all about drug addiction, I have an extensive history dealing first hand with addicts. I have seen many people suffer from addictions. Some of them were/are also dumbasses. They are not mutually exclusive behaviors. I make no apologies for calling him one. Just like I'll call Josh Hamilton a dumbass without any reservations. And it doesn't mean I am not sympathetic to someone being an addict or a dumbass, or both. If not sugar coating a situation makes me a jerk, then so be it.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2018, 12:16:02 am »

Quote from: Sphinx Drummond on January 23, 2018, 08:24:59 pm

Yeah yeah, I read that and more. I know all about drug addiction, I have an extensive history dealing first hand with addicts. I have seen many people suffer from addictions. Some of them were/are also dumbasses. They are not mutually exclusive behaviors. I make no apologies for calling him one. Just like I'll call Josh Hamilton a dumbass without any reservations. And it doesn't mean I am not sympathetic to someone being an addict or a dumbass, or both. If not sugar coating a situation makes me a jerk, then so be it.

For the record, as a recovering drug addict, I was not offended in the least by what you wrote. In fact, I don't favor sugar coating addiction at all, because people die from addiction behaviors that cross the line. In fact, people who sugar coat and tippy-toe around addiction often are enablers. Unfortunately, addiction is a phenomenon about which we actually know very little.

I'm reading a new and controversial book entitled Unbroken Brain by Maia Szalavitz, a recovering addict. She cites extensive research and really debunks the whole 12 step mode of recovery that almost every rehab facility uses. It's quite persuasive and suggests that addiction may not be a disease at all. I know this personally: addiction is a series of poor choices, for which one must be held responsible and accountable.

VirtualBob · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2018, 07:04:05 am »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on January 24, 2018, 12:16:02 am

Unfortunately, addiction is a phenomenon about which we actually know very little.

I'm reading a new and controversial book entitled Unbroken Brain by Maia Szalavitz, a recovering addict. She cites extensive research and really debunks the whole 12 step mode of recovery that almost every rehab facility uses. It's quite persuasive and suggests that addiction may not be a disease at all. I know this personally: addiction is a series of poor choices, for which one must be held responsible and accountable.

I agree. And I would further suggest that most of us are addicted to something by this definition. Some categories of habitually bad choices have external chemical components, but a lot of brain studies show that there are internal chemical components of other addictive behaviors. There is a lot to this and there is real cause for hope, but not found in excuses.

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2018, 07:48:16 am »

I have sympathies for every person who deals with debilitating addiction as it's understood. They are slim for those who have ample opportunity and every resource available to them to recover, yet continue to follow a path to self-destruction.

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2018, 08:54:04 am »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on January 24, 2018, 12:16:02 am

I know this personally: addiction is a series of poor choices, for which one must be held responsible and accountable.

I get what you're saying here and agree. Poor choices though, originate from different motivations. For example: Person A, who becomes addicted to doctor prescribed opioids has a different motivation or reason for seeking relief from physical pain. Quite different from the motivation of Person B, who has a dumb habit of risky behavior by taking recreational drugs, who also is probably an alcoholic with dwindling millions in the bank and at one time was rated highly for the potential to succeed.

I would still feel bad for both of the imaginary people in the preceding examples

juliogotay · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2018, 09:06:40 am »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on January 24, 2018, 12:16:02 am

For the record, as a recovering drug addict, I was not offended in the least by what you wrote. In fact, I don't favor sugar coating addiction at all, because people die from addiction behaviors that cross the line. In fact, people who sugar coat and tippy-toe around addiction often are enablers. Unfortunately, addiction is a phenomenon about which we actually know very little.

I'm reading a new and controversial book entitled Unbroken Brain by Maia Szalavitz, a recovering addict. She cites extensive research and really debunks the whole 12 step mode of recovery that almost every rehab facility uses. It's quite persuasive and suggests that addiction may not be a disease at all. I know this personally: addiction is a series of poor choices, for which one must be held responsible and accountable.

Thanks for the personal insight and the interesting opinion on this. Glad you are winning the struggle.

juliogotay · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2018, 09:26:18 am »

More on this: Singleton signed his "controversial" 5yr/$10m deal in 2014 but was removed from the 40-Man roster in November. When he signed the contract then-manager Bo Porter told the Chronicle:
You get Jonathan the man right, and the baseball part will take care of itself.

Dean Deetz's suspension is a little more surprising. And no one was more surprised than Deetz, apparently. Deetz:
Let me say first and foremost that I have never knowingly taken a performance-enhancing substance of any kind. I come from a small town and know how fortunate I am to call myself a professional baseball player. I would never jeopardize that opportunity, or betray those who have supported me along the way, by trying to cheat in order to gain an advantage. As I explained to the arbitrator in my appeal, I have no idea how I could possibly have tested positive, and although I am disappointed by the outcome, I will abide by his decision.

MusicMan · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2018, 09:30:00 am »

I at least enjoy the small irony of Singleton finishing his career with 420 plate appearances.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2018, 03:07:17 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on January 24, 2018, 09:30:00 am

I at least enjoy the small irony of Singleton finishing his career with 420 plate appearances.

I spit Diet Coke when I read that. Damn you, man.

juliogotay · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:20:54 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on January 24, 2018, 03:07:17 pm

I spit Diet Coke when I read that. Damn you, man.

Can someone enlighten me? I'm thinking this is a drug reference or something.

NeilT · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:28:50 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on January 24, 2018, 05:20:54 pm

Can someone enlighten me? I'm thinking this is a drug reference or something.

I think Mr. Happy used to be on a coke diet, but I think he's telling us he's clean now.

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2018, 05:51:52 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on January 24, 2018, 05:20:54 pm

Can someone enlighten me? I'm thinking this is a drug reference or something.

LMGTFY

JimR · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2018, 06:04:32 pm »

Does Deetz remain on the 40-man or does he move to some other list?

Fredia · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2018, 06:14:07 pm »

i am 64 and i did not need any explaining

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2018, 06:31:34 pm »

Quote from: JimR on January 24, 2018, 06:04:32 pm

Does Deetz remain on the 40-man or does he move to some other list?

He goes on the Suspended List. I’m pretty sure that drug suspensions don’t count against the 40-man. He doesn’t get paid either.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #23 on:** January 24, 2018, 06:36:24 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on January 24, 2018, 05:20:54 pm

Can someone enlighten me? I'm thinking this is a drug reference or something.

It is indeed a drug reference. The number 420 has a special meaning to all potheads. 420 means it is time to burn! I used to smoke at 4:20, both a.m. and p.m. There are a number of rumors about how the phrase came in being, but they all seem to point back to California.

Randy Watson · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2018, 02:26:19 pm »

Does this mean the Astros pocket the million or so dollars they would have had to pay Singleton this year?

doyce7 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2018, 02:32:36 pm »

Quote from: Randy Watson on January 25, 2018, 02:26:19 pm

Does this mean the Astros pocket the million or so dollars they would have had to pay Singleton this year?

I think suspension pay goes to charity but that may just be fines

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HudsonHawk · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2018, 03:06:55 pm »

Quote from: doyce7 on January 25, 2018, 02:32:36 pm

I think suspension pay goes to charity but that may just be fines

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Unless they've changed that in the last year, MLB does not funnel suspension or fine money to charities. All other major professional sports leagues do, but MLB does not. The club simply does not pay the player and saves that money.

doyce7 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2018, 03:08:42 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on January 25, 2018, 03:06:55 pm

Unless they've changed that in the last year, MLB does not funnel suspension or fine money to charities. All other major professional sports leagues do, but MLB does not. The club simply does not pay the player and saves that money.

Well, I learned something today

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Randy Watson · « **Reply #28 on:** January 29, 2018, 11:51:08 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on January 25, 2018, 03:06:55 pm

Unless they've changed that in the last year, MLB does not funnel suspension or fine money to charities. All other major professional sports leagues do, but MLB does not. The club simply does not pay the player and saves that money.

Astros get a nice little windfall then.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #29 on:** January 29, 2018, 01:08:30 pm »

Quote from: Randy Watson on January 29, 2018, 11:51:08 am

Astros get a nice little windfall then.

This has been a source of irritation for the MLBPA for a while now. They claim that it incentivizes clubs to rat out players in order to get out of a bad contract rather than helping players who need help. ARod's suspension comes to mind, and there was much consternation over Josh Hamilton and the Angels, with people claiming that the Angels might want to actually push him off the wagon in order to get out of paying him.

JimR · « **Reply #30 on:** January 29, 2018, 01:31:39 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on January 29, 2018, 01:08:30 pm

This has been a source of irritation for the MLBPA for a while now. They claim that it incentivizes clubs to rat out players in order to get out of a bad contract rather than helping players who need help. ARod's suspension comes to mind, and there was much consternation over Josh Hamilton and the Angels, with people claiming that the Angels might want to actually push him off the wagon in order to get out of paying him.

Anyone who would encourage or enable an addiction to save money should be shot.

Col. Sphinx Drummond · « **Reply #31 on:** January 29, 2018, 03:28:52 pm »

Quote from: JimR on January 29, 2018, 01:31:39 pm

Anyone who would encourage or enable an addiction to save money should be shot.

Shot full of heroin.

das · « **Reply #32 on:** January 29, 2018, 03:45:48 pm »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on January 29, 2018, 01:08:30 pm

This has been a source of irritation for the MLBPA for a while now. They claim that it incentivizes clubs to rat out players in order to get out of a bad contract rather than helping players who need help. ARod's suspension comes to mind, and there was much consternation over Josh Hamilton and the Angels, with people claiming that the Angels might want to actually push him off the wagon in order to get out of paying him.

People claim that others "might" do ridiculous things all the time to further their own interests or biases. If anyone shows me the tiniest shred of evidence that a major or minor league team, a going business concern with mature risk management practices, pushed or coerced a known addict to fall off the wagon to get out of a contract, I'll happily eat my words. Until then, such a notion is just typical biased drivel stirred up to make a pointless point.

HudsonHawk · « **Reply #33 on:** January 30, 2018, 07:33:04 am »

Quote from: das on January 29, 2018, 03:45:48 pm

People claim that others "might" do ridiculous things all the time to further their own interests or biases. If anyone shows me the tiniest shred of evidence that a major or minor league team, a going business concern with mature risk management practices, pushed or coerced a known addict to fall off the wagon to get out of a contract, I'll happily eat my words. Until then, such a notion is just typical biased drivel stirred up to make a pointless point.

I'm not suggesting the Angels *did* do such a thing, only that it was brought up as a one of the fear mongering examples of the temptation brought about by the evils of not paying players on drug suspensions.

das · « **Reply #34 on:** January 30, 2018, 11:11:16 am »

Quote from: HudsonHawk on January 30, 2018, 07:33:04 am

I'm not suggesting the Angels *did* do such a thing, only that it was brought up as a one of the fear mongering examples of the temptation brought about by the evils of not paying players on drug suspensions.

Yup, I was not suggesting that *you* were the one making the baseless claims. MLBPA and internet "analysts" are a whole 'nuther story...