Catching

[juliogotay]

Heyman believes the Astros could have some interest in Realmuto of Marlins. I suppose they don't think Stubbs is a real answer. https://www.fanragsports.com/inside-baseball-mlb-notes-astros-targeting-long-term-catcher/

[Waldo]

Of course, it is well known the Astros don’t like to give up prospects

The narrative lives!

[Reuben]

The narrative lives!

"Hey Jon Heyman! We beg to differ."

Sincerely,
Brett Phillips
Domingo Santana
Josh Hader
Franklin Perez
Jake Rogers
Daz Cameron
Albert Abreu
Jorge Guzman
Jacob Nottingham
Daniel Mengden
Teoscar Hernandez
Mark Appel
Vincent Velasquez
Harold Arauz
Thomas Eshelman
Mike Foltynewicz
Rio Ruiz
Nick Tropeano

[jaklewein]

"Hey Jon Heyman! We beg to differ."

Sincerely,
Brett Phillips
Domingo Santana
Josh Hader
Franklin Perez
Jake Rogers
Daz Cameron
Albert Abreu
Jorge Guzman
Jacob Nottingham
Daniel Mengden
Teoscar Hernandez
Mark Appel
Vincent Velasquez
Harold Arauz
Thomas Eshelman
Mike Foltynewicz
Rio Ruiz
Nick Tropeano

Well played Sir.

[MusicMan]

The narrative lives!

I’m just wondering who really LIKES to give up prospects. “I have all these talented, cheap players... get them away from me!”


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[juliogotay]

Looking at that list of traded prospects, I see two that I think could have, and probably would have played on the 2017 World Champion Houston Astros. Santana and Hader would have been useful. Anyone feel strongly about any of the others? Meanwhile, this group of prospects brought Verlander, McCann, Liriano, Giles, Gattis and Hoyt.

[Jacksonian]

Looking at that list of traded prospects, I see two that I think could have, and probably would have played on the 2017 World Champion Houston Astros. Santana and Hader would have been useful. Anyone feel strongly about any of the others? Meanwhile, this group of prospects brought Verlander, McCann, Liriano, Giles, Gattis and Hoyt.

A number of those guys have the physical tools to have major league careers.  But I'd give them all up again because it all led to the championship.

[juliogotay]

A number of those guys have the physical tools to have major league careers.  But I'd give them all up again because it all led to the championship.

Of course. I hated to see Cameron (toolsy), Hader (nasty LHer) and Rogers (solid defensive catcher) leave but, hey, the last two helped bring Verlander. I would do that all day.

[mrpink]

A number of those guys have the physical tools to have major league careers.  But I'd give them all up again because it all led to the championship.

I would argue that giving up Santana (and others) for an old shitty version of himself didn't lead to the championship. 

But then again, maybe if they still had Santana they wouldn't have signed Reddick who was a key to their success this year.

[JimR]

I would argue that giving up Santana (and others) for an old shitty version of himself didn't lead to the championship. 

But then again, maybe if they still had Santana they wouldn't have signed Reddick who was a key to their success this year.

Fiers came in the deal too, and he held the pitching together till the others got well.

Argue away.

[mrpink]

Fiers came in the deal too, and he held the pitching together till the others got well.

Argue away.

Good point, Fiers was terrific that month plus. But, without that trade they would still have Hader who might have done well too.
It's fun to think about regardless.

[mrpink]

Good point, Fiers was terrific that month plus. But, without that trade they would still have Hader who might have done well too.
It's fun to think about regardless.

...and Mark's blood pressure might be 50 points lower.

[JimR]

...and Mark's blood pressure might be 50 points lower.

Good point.

[Jacksonian]

I would argue that giving up Santana (and others) for an old shitty version of himself didn't lead to the championship. 

But then again, maybe if they still had Santana they wouldn't have signed Reddick who was a key to their success this year.

This is the point.  You change the way one domino fell early in the run and you potentially change the way other dominoes fall later.

[BlownRanger]

In 2015 the Astros won the 2nd wildcard by a margin of one game.  Without Gomez and Fiers, it's likely they miss those six very valuable games of postseason experience.

[mrpink]

This is the point.  You change the way one domino fell early in the run and you potentially change the way other dominoes fall later.

Yep, don't they call it the butterfly effect?  Man that was a shitty movie.

[mrpink]

In 2015 the Astros won the 2nd wildcard by a margin of one game.  Without Gomez and Fiers, it's likely they miss those six very valuable games of postseason experience.

I don't think it's likely at all.  Santana was already a better player than Gomez at the time of the trade.  Fiers had a nice ERA but it wasn't backed up by his peripheral numbers or with the eye test.  His innings may have been filled just as capably by Dan Straily.

Or Luhnow might have gone out and gotten a different pitcher.

[Reuben]

I don't think it's likely at all.  Santana was already a better player than Gomez at the time of the trade.  Fiers had a nice ERA but it wasn't backed up by his peripheral numbers or with the eye test.  His innings may have been filled just as capably by Dan Straily.

Or Luhnow might have gone out and gotten a different pitcher.

His ERA was his ERA. All the peripheral numbers are good for is, sometimes, predicting future performance. But a 3.32 ERA means he actually prevented real runs from scoring which helped win real games. He also pitched a no-hitter which probably fired up the team.

I agree that Gomez did not help. He took playing time away from Marisnick, and Jake was, in retrospect, the superior player.

[Jacksonian]

Yep, don't they call it the butterfly effect?  Man that was a shitty movie.

When I wrote that I thought of "A Sound of Thunder."

[Fredia]

someone finally realizes the reality we live in

[juliogotay]

His ERA was his ERA. All the peripheral numbers are good for is, sometimes, predicting future performance. But a 3.32 ERA means he actually prevented real runs from scoring which helped win real games. He also pitched a no-hitter which probably fired up the team.

I agree that Gomez did not help. He took playing time away from Marisnick, and Jake was, in retrospect, the superior player.

Right on.

[JimR]

I don't think it's likely at all.  Santana was already a better player than Gomez at the time of the trade.  Fiers had a nice ERA but it wasn't backed up by his peripheral numbers or with the eye test.  His innings may have been filled just as capably by Dan Straily.

Or Luhnow might have gone out and gotten a different pitcher.

Bullshit on the second sentence.

[mrpink]

Bullshit on the second sentence.

Just because they didn't recognize it then doesn't mean it's not true.

[Bench]

Just because they didn't recognize it then doesn't mean it's not true.

That's ridiculous.  Gomez was an all-star in 2013 and 2014 and received MVP votes both seasons. 

[MusicMan]

Just because they didn't recognize it then doesn't mean it's not true.

Did Santana hit better the rest of the season? Yes. Out of the pressure of a postseason chase, on a rebuilding team.

Did anyone think he was a better player than Gomez at the time? Hell no.


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[JimR]

Just because they didn't recognize it then doesn't mean it's not true.

Ah, I see. You recognized it, but Luhnow and Hinch did not? Why are you not working in baseball if you are this smart?

ST and games cannot get here soon enough.

[mrpink]

Ah, I see. You recognized it, but Luhnow and Hinch did not? Why are you not working in baseball if you are this smart?

I didn't recognize it, still doesn't mean it wasn't true. However, it's not like there weren't warning signs.  The Mets backed out of a trade and all they were giving up was Wilmer Flores and Zack Wheeler who wouldn't even be able to pitch until 2017 (that trade wouldn't have included Fiers).

[Ty in Tampa]

Hindsight questioning of a World Champion organization...ain't the void grand?

[JimR]

Hindsight questioning of a World Champion organization...ain't the void grand?

Internet experts surface during the void to tell us how it should have been.

[toddthebod]

Shoot.  If we are going to relive the trade, I wish the Astros had traded for Cespedes and not Gomez.  It would have cost less in terms of prospects (the Mets gave up one major prospect in Fullmer), and Cespedes blew up for the Mets once he was traded, as opposed to Gomez who did squat for the Astros. 

[chuck]

Shoot.  If we are going to relive the trade, I wish the Astros had traded for Cespedes and not Gomez.  It would have cost less in terms of prospects (the Mets gave up one major prospect in Fullmer), and Cespedes blew up for the Mets once he was traded, as opposed to Gomez who did squat for the Astros.

Plus, he's Cuban and he's crazy and you can never have too many of those guys around.

[juliogotay]

Shoot.  If we are going to relive the trade, I wish the Astros had traded for Cespedes and not Gomez.  It would have cost less in terms of prospects (the Mets gave up one major prospect in Fullmer), and Cespedes blew up for the Mets once he was traded, as opposed to Gomez who did squat for the Astros.

Fullmer was a helluva prospect.

[HudsonHawk]

Plus, he's Cuban and he's crazy and you can never have too many of those guys around.

It's the crazy Cuban chicks you have to worry about. There is definitely a limit to how many of those you should keep on hand.

[jaklewein]

This is all bullshit.  Every decision made over the last handful of years, good or bad, lead to a Championship.  And when I say every decision, I mean it.  If Luhnow decided to come into work drunk one day two years ago, which with him half in the bag, lead to him making what some of you perceive to be a bad trade....  To you all, I say, "You are wrong."  To Luhnow, I say, "Great job.  Congratulations Sir.", because it lead to an F-ing Championship.  In my mind that means ALL moves made prior to and up to the last out made in Game 7, were all made to perfection!  So in summary, I wouldn't change a F-ing thing, and can't for the life of me understand how anyone out there could disagree.  Those of you that want to continue to dig up bullshit to talk about and pass the time as we move through The Void, go right ahead.  Me, I'll just keep to my DVR, re-watching the best moments of the postseason again and again as I have for the past 2 months.  My wife and kids tell me I'm crazy.  Each time they do, I just nod, hit the play button and smile.  Their thoughts on that subject are none of my concern.

[JimR]

This is all bullshit.  Every decision made over the last handful of years, good or bad, lead to a Championship.  And when I say every decision, I mean it.  If Luhnow decided to come into work drunk one day two years ago, which with him half in the bag, lead to him making what some of you perceive to be a bad trade....  To you all, I say, "You are wrong."  To Luhnow, I say, "Great job.  Congratulations Sir.", because it lead to an F-ing Championship.  In my mind that means ALL moves made prior to and up to the last out made in Game 7, were all made to perfection!  So in summary, I wouldn't change a F-ing thing, and can't for the life of me understand how anyone out there could disagree.  Those of you that want to continue to dig up bullshit to talk about and pass the time as we move through The Void, go right ahead.  Me, I'll just keep to my DVR, re-watching the best moments of the postseason again and again as I have for the past 2 months.  My wife and kids tell me I'm crazy.  Each time they do, I just nod, hit the play button and smile.  Their thoughts on that subject are none of my concern.

This, and well said. I quit paying even a little attention after “Santana was a better player than Gomez in 2015.”

[juliogotay]

I thought this thread was about catching.

[JimR]

I thought this thread was about catching.

Once upon a time, it was!

[chuck]

It's the crazy Cuban chicks you have to worry about. There is definitely a limit to how many of those you should keep on hand.

Afirmao, coño.

[Reuben]

I thought this thread was about catching.

Good point. Back to catching: I've seen multiple reports that, with Stassi out of options, the Astros are considering making him the primary backup to McCann, with Gattis playing a lot more DH. This McTagg article is the latest:

As for this year, McCann is bullish on Stassi, the 26-year-old who's played 44 games with the Astros over the past five seasons. The Astros are touting the changes Stassi has made at the plate.

"Stassi changed the way he hits," McCann said. "He reaped the benefits from that this year. His swing looks really good, he's made great strides behind the plate. Gattis did an amazing job last year. There's going to be innings for everybody, at-bats for everybody and we'll see how it plays out. I really like the catching we have."

Stassi kind of quietly had a great year at Fresno, hitting .266/.383/.473 with 12 HR in 73 games. That's his best season yet, and way better than his career MiLB numbers. He's still just 26 years old (27 in March). Might be time to see if he can cut it as a major league catcher.

edit: By the way, I can't help but notice how much McCann talks like a manager. Could easily see him doing that in another 8-10 years.

[juliogotay]

Good point. Back to catching: I've seen multiple reports that, with Stassi out of options, the Astros are considering making him the primary backup to McCann, with Gattis playing a lot more DH. This McTagg article is the latest:

Stassi kind of quietly had a great year at Fresno, hitting .266/.383/.473 with 12 HR in 73 games. That's his best season yet, and way better than his career MiLB numbers. He's still just 26 years old (27 in March). Might be time to see if he can cut it as a major league catcher.

edit: By the way, I can't help but notice how much McCann talks like a manager. Could easily see him doing that in another 8-10 years.

Your "edit" quote took the words out of my mouth...or fingertips whatever. I put a lot of faith into McCann comments about pitching and catching. I'm sure he'll manage someday if he wants that.

[geezerdonk]

I wouldn't mind seeing Stassi as the backup catcher this year. He looks comfortable behind the plate. He carries himself like a major leaguer. His prospects aren't hurt by McCann advocating for him.