I cannot get enough of this stuff

[JimR]

Factoid: Altuve’s 3-run homer off Maeda to tie Game 5 followed a 9-pitch walk by Springer and a 10-pitch walk by Bregman off Kershaw with two outs and nobody on.

[Aussie Astro]

I know what you mean about can't get enough... I keep re-watching games 2 and 5 trying to decide which was better.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Here's the entire inning:

https://youtu.be/h8Oo87L3U2s

Springer got hosed on ball 4/strike 2.  That's why he three his bat as he took first on ball 5.  Interesting to watch Kershaw's reactions as he missed pitch after pitch and lost both Springer and Bregman.

The Altuve AB was simply awesome.   Maeda couldn't snap off a good slider.   Altuve just missed the one he fouled into the dirt/off  his leg.   Then he yanked another spinner deep but foul.   Then Maeda thought he'd better try a fastball and KABAAAAM!!!!!!!!!

I've watched the whole AB a dozen times.

[BudGirl]

I know what you mean about can't get enough... I keep re-watching games 2 and 5 trying to decide which was better.

My opinion, game 5. So many emotions. So many.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I tabled revisiting game 2 because I wanted to stay in the moment for the subsequent games.  Then game 5 happened and I've spent almost all my spare time rewatching bits of it.

Top 7:
- Peacock nails Turner at third after the leadoff double
- Springer's ill-advised dive allows a run to score
- Peacock  then locks down, Ks Forsythe,  gets Puig to fly out and the runner on 3rd with 1 out is stranded

Then this happened:
https://youtu.be/pWj-du7Zlp0

I've never seen a moon shot like Correa's in person.

[Aussie Astro]

My opinion, game 5. So many emotions. So many.

I try to think of the games in isolation as for which was best, but game 5 had the spectre of win or got back to LA having to win 2 games.  Win 1, yep, I was confident we could do that… to win 2 however would have needed more than Peter Graves.  I take it most us felt like we were playing for the series in game 5, but no one wanted to say it out loud?

[NeilT]

I try to think of the games in isolation as for which was best, but game 5 had the spectre of win or got back to LA having to win 2 games.  Win 1, yep, I was confident we could do that… to win 2 however would have needed more than Peter Graves.  I take it most us felt like we were playing for the series in game 5, but no one wanted to say it out loud?

I don't think it needed to be said.  Game 5 was the better game. 

[WVastro]

I don't think it needed to be said.  Game 5 was the better game.

As I was listening, I felt like game 5 wasn’t necessarily the deciding game... but... had the Astros lost it I thought that would be the end of the line. I knew they’d lose one in LA, I was positive... when they pulled it out I completely lost my shit.

Game 2 was a different experience. Yes it was a “must win” but to me it felt like a counter punch to game one in typical 2017 Astros fashion. They were down on the mat, got up, took a standing 8 count, and then proceeded to vaunt all over the fucking place.

As good as game 2 was my money is on game 5... that was fucking epic. They forced at least a game 7 there. That game made it all happen (if that makes any sense...)

[JimR]

Here's the entire inning:

https://youtu.be/h8Oo87L3U2s

Springer got hosed on ball 4/strike 2.  That's why he three his bat as he took first on ball 5.  Interesting to watch Kershaw's reactions as he missed pitch after pitch and lost both Springer and Bregman.

The Altuve AB was simply awesome.   Maeda couldn't snap off a good slider.   Altuve just missed the one he fouled into the dirt/off  his leg.   Then he yanked another spinner deep but foul.   Then Maeda thought he'd better try a fastball and KABAAAAM!!!!!!!!!

I've watched the whole AB a dozen times.

He was so calm during his AB. If he took that approach into the regular season, he would hit .500. During his AB, I feared I was having The Big One. I was afraid he would be in swing mode, and we would get nothing out of two on.

Mark and I agreed before the game, we had to win to have a chance. Like others said, we could win one going back to LA but not two. Game 5 wasof the best of the seven for many reasons, and I am so glad Mark and I were there.

[Navin R Johnson]

For any of you who might not know, every post season game is available on Youtube in HD.   I watched a bunch of innings from games 2, 5, 7 of the WS and games, 2, 6 & 7 of the ALCS yesterday.    You can stream the games on your TV (air play or HDMI cable) and get a crystal clear replay.

They aren't on the MLB Youtube channel,  you just have to search for 2017 World Series Game X or 2017 ALCS game 6, etc...

[Navin R Johnson]

Speaking of rewatching....

So Giles in game 2.   While he gets crapped on for his performance, the Astros also don't get to extra innings without him keeping the game tied in the 9th, facing the heart of the Dodgers order.   He Ks Saeger, gets Turner to ground out and Bellinger to pop out.  He threw 10 pitches, 7 strikes.

He comes back out for the 10th, with a lead.   Falls behind 2-1 Puig, then throws a 98mph fastball low and outside.  Watch the replay it was going to hit McCanns mitt dead center exactly where McCann had set up.  It was a good pitch, hat tip to Puig.   Giles then strikes out the next 2 guys.

Forsythe comes up and Giles is now at 22 pitches.   He gets to 1-2 and tries to get him to chase a slider down, which even Smoltz says is a great pitch.   2-2 pitch is a another slider but way out of the zone that bounces to McCann.   Ball 4 is a fastball low and outside that just misses.   Buck comments, that didn't miss by much.   Now Kike comes up with Giles at 28 pitches.   At this point, Giles loses all control.  Way off the plate fastball, slider in the dirt that is a wildpitch, 98mph high fastball for a swinging strike, followed by another fastball well out of the zone.    Then the ball that Kike hits is a 96mph fastball, off the plate and up. pitch 32.

Giles was excellent up until 2-2 on Forsythe.    Damn shame he couldn't finish him off.

[Bench]

I don't think it needed to be said.  Game 5 was the better game.

It's like picking your favorite child, but if there's no game 2 there's no game 5.  The Astros would have been 0-6 in the world series, coming home facing the task of having to be near perfect just to get the series back to LA.  Add in the fact that they were virtually shut down in game 1 and the first seven innings of game 2, down by 2 after a couple of hard luck homers after not getting a win from either Keuchel and Verlander and facing one of the best closers in the game - it was near despair.  By game 5 the Astros had proven they could touch up the Dodgers bullpen and even if they didn't pull that out they had Verlander going in Game 6 in order to get it to a Game 7 kitchen sink game. 

Then to storm back against Janssen, take the lead, lose the lead and then take the lead again and then barely hang on to pull a split out of nowhere completely changed the dynamic of the series.  Clenching your ass as you slowly got demoralized for seven innings, then going through the insanity of the final four innings to completely turn franchise history on its head was a game like no other.

[MRaup]

I tabled revisiting game 2 because I wanted to stay in the moment for the subsequent games.  Then game 5 happened and I've spent almost all my spare time rewatching bits of it.

Top 7:
- Peacock nails Turner at third after the leadoff double
- Springer's ill-advised dive allows a run to score
- Peacock  then locks down, Ks Forsythe,  gets Puig to fly out and the runner on 3rd with 1 out is stranded

Then this happened:
https://youtu.be/pWj-du7Zlp0

I've never seen a moon shot like Correa's in person.

I despise Joe Buck, but his home run call on Springer cracked me up...

High fly ball GOODBYE!

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Speaking of rewatching....

So Giles in game 2.   While he gets crapped on for his performance, the Astros also don't get to extra innings without him keeping the game tied in the 9th, facing the heart of the Dodgers order.   He Ks Saeger, gets Turner to ground out and Bellinger to pop out.  He threw 10 pitches, 7 strikes.

He comes back out for the 10th, with a lead.   Falls behind 2-1 Puig, then throws a 98mph fastball low and outside.  Watch the replay it was going to hit McCanns mitt dead center exactly where McCann had set up.  It was a good pitch, hat tip to Puig.   Giles then strikes out the next 2 guys.

Forsythe comes up and Giles is now at 22 pitches.   He gets to 1-2 and tries to get him to chase a slider down, which even Smoltz says is a great pitch.   2-2 pitch is a another slider but way out of the zone that bounces to McCann.   Ball 4 is a fastball low and outside that just misses.   Buck comments, that didn't miss by much.   Now Kike comes up with Giles at 28 pitches.   At this point, Giles loses all control.  Way off the plate fastball, slider in the dirt that is a wildpitch, 98mph high fastball for a swinging strike, followed by another fastball well out of the zone.    Then the ball that Kike hits is a 96mph fastball, off the plate and up. pitch 32.

Giles was excellent up until 2-2 on Forsythe.    Damn shame he couldn't finish him off.

Agreed with all of this.  I blame his pitch count for that  meltdown, as he clearly had his stuff earlier in the outing.  Giles will never be the 6+ out closer type.  Which is why I'm all for them going out and getting a (lefty) closer/8th inning type this offseason.

[georgiasamba]

Game 2 vs Game 5?  This is one of those things fans will continue debating/reminiscing about  years or even decades from now. and I love that... 

[Navin R Johnson]

My choice is game 5 because it was at home.

[toddthebod]

I know that people have mentioned picking up Morrow this offseason to bolster the pen.  But how can Morrow possible come to the Astros after game 5?  How does he look at anyone in the clubhouse?

[Astros Fan in Big D]

My choice is game 5 because it was at home.

And a walkoff.

Of course I wouldn't kick game 2 out of bed.   

[BudGirl]

I know that people have mentioned picking up Morrow this offseason to bolster the pen.  But how can Morrow possible come to the Astros after game 5?  How does he look at anyone in the clubhouse?

He'd no that he wouldn't have to face them again.  That would be good.

[Bench]

I know that people have mentioned picking up Morrow this offseason to bolster the pen.  But how can Morrow possible come to the Astros after game 5?  How does he look at anyone in the clubhouse?

As a terrific relief pitcher who had one bad outing when he was utterly exhausted. 

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I've never seen a moon shot like Correa's in person.

According to Jeff Sullivan on Effectively Wild, nobody hit a homer that high all year. Something like 97% of batted balls struck at such an angle resulted in outs in 2017.

[homer]

Was Marwin's homerun more or less unexpected than the Ausmus homerun in 2005?

[JimR]

I know that people have mentioned picking up Morrow this offseason to bolster the pen.  But how can Morrow possible come to the Astros after game 5?  How does he look at anyone in the clubhouse?

Because he is a professional athlete.

[JimR]

Was Marwin's homerun more or less unexpected than the Ausmus homerun in 2005?

Much, much less

[moriartp]

Was Marwin's homerun more or less unexpected than the Ausmus homerun in 2005?

Less, to me. That Ausmus homer is on its own level of freak occurrence—not just because he hit one, but because of where he hit it.

[JimR]

As a terrific relief pitcher who had one bad outing when he was utterly exhausted.

If he was exhausted, he did not know it. He called the dugout twice and asked to be used because he felt good warming up. Before the game, Roberts said he was unavailable.

[Mr. Appropriate]

Was Marwin's homerun more or less unexpected than the Ausmus homerun in 2005?

I had the impression that Ausmus seemed to hit for more power in the postseason than in the regular season (even got to see him hit one in person against the braves in a NLDS). I just looked it up and he has 3 postseason HR's for a total of 1 for every 35.33 at bats vs. 1 HR for every 78.48 at bats over his career. In comparison Biggio and Bagwell both only had 2 HR's in their postseason careers. So I had learned to expect the unexpected from Ausmus.

I did not see Marwin's HR coming at all. That was one of the most happy baseball surprises I have ever seen.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Was Marwin's homerun more or less unexpected than the Ausmus homerun in 2005?

Marwin seemed worn out four a while to me.   His blast was a welcome surprise.

At the time of Ausmus's HR he was getting quality ABs, they just usually ended with the pitcher winning.   Agree with the location of his HR was the really surprising part.   He freaking whalloped it.

I often thought back to the Ausmus blast and the Everett shot to the wall in StL when we would get production out of the bottom of the order in the playoffs. A little goes such a long way and we got more than a little.

[JimR]

I had the impression that Ausmus seemed to hit for more power in the postseason than in the regular season (even got to see him hit one in person against the braves in a NLDS). I just looked it up and he has 3 postseason HR's for a total of 1 for every 35.33 at bats vs. 1 HR for every 78.48 at bats over his career. In comparison Biggio and Bagwell both only had 2 HR's in their postseason careers. So I had learned to expect the unexpected from Ausmus.

I did not see Marwin's HR coming at all. That was one of the most happy baseball surprises I have ever seen.

I call bullshit on your expecting that HR from Ausmus.

[TxRascal]

So I had learned to expect the unexpected from Ausmus.

Anyone who successfully "expects" a home run in a specific at bat from a career .344 slugger has missed his calling.

The TalkZone might have discovered a 2nd generation Nostradamus.

[Mr. Appropriate]

I call bullshit on your expecting that HR from Ausmus.

I did not expect that specific HR from Ausmus. I expected Brad to get an HR now and then, which he seemed to do more often in the postseason. I had zero expectation that Marwin would get the HR in the 9th. Would have taken a bet against that happening if I bet against the Astros which I never ever do.

Which raises a question, what level of probability raises to the level of "expect" in the context of an at bat? Ausmus had a 3% chance (if my math is right, and it may not be) of getting an HR in a specific at bat, which was twice as good as his regular season percentage.

The only time I knew someone was going to get a HR was when Joe Carter hit one off of Mitch Williams. I was dead certain that was going to happen.
 
Oh, and when Bonds tied the HR record in Houston. Wasn't 100% that was going to happen but it was looking pretty good that the Astros pitcher they sent out to please the fans wasn't going to make Barry wait. 

 

[Mr. Appropriate]

Anyone who successfully "expects" a home run in a specific at bat from a career .344 slugger has missed his calling.

The TalkZone might have discovered a 2nd generation Nostradamus.

As I don't know you at all, I have no expectations of you. I expect JimR to be quick to be aggressive and occasionally grouchy. It's part of the fun of reading the threads here.

I suspect a few things about you, but I not strongly enough to venture any predictions.

[BudGirl]

As I don't know you at all, I have no expectations of you. I expect JimR to be quick to be aggressive and occasionally grouchy. It's part of the fun of reading the threads here.

I suspect a few things about you, but I not strongly enough to venture any predictions.

Uhm, Rascal used to be around a lot a while back.

[Ty in Tampa]

I watched Ausmus that entire year (and a few before that) and the last thing I thought in that scenario was HR.

[TxRascal]

I suspect a few things about you, but I not strongly enough to venture any predictions.

Your "suspect" probably enjoys the same degree of accuracy as your "expect".

[BudGirl]

I watched Ausmus that entire year (and a few before that) and the last thing I thought in that scenario was HR.

We all know I watched Ausmus, probably more than most, and I never thought that was going to happen.  A hit maybe but a HR???

[Astros Fan in Big D]

We all know I watched Ausmus, probably more than most, and I never thought that was going to happen.  A hit maybe but a HR???

Has the restraining order expired?

[BudGirl]

Has the restraining order expired?

Doesn't matter, it never stopped me before.

[Bench]

I watched Ausmus that entire year (and a few before that) and the last thing I thought in that scenario was HR.

All I remember is screaming "RUN! WHY ARE YOU SLOWING DOWN? GO!"

[JimR]

As I don't know you at all, I have no expectations of you. I expect JimR to be quick to be aggressive and occasionally grouchy. It's part of the fun of reading the threads here.

I suspect a few things about you, but I not strongly enough to venture any predictions.

Watch out, wise  ass. He has friends here.

[JimR]

I did not expect that specific HR from Ausmus. I expected Brad to get an HR now and then, which he seemed to do more often in the postseason. I had zero expectation that Marwin would get the HR in the 9th. Would have taken a bet against that happening if I bet against the Astros which I never ever do.

Which raises a question, what level of probability raises to the level of "expect" in the context of an at bat? Ausmus had a 3% chance (if my math is right, and it may not be) of getting an HR in a specific at bat, which was twice as good as his regular season percentage.

The only time I knew someone was going to get a HR was when Joe Carter hit one off of Mitch Williams. I was dead certain that was going to happen.
 
Oh, and when Bonds tied the HR record in Houston. Wasn't 100% that was going to happen but it was looking pretty good that the Astros pitcher they sent out to please the fans wasn't going to make Barry wait.

I think you must be getting paid by the word. Sure you did.

[Mr. Appropriate]

Watch out, wise  ass. He has friends here.

This, I expected.

[Mr. Appropriate]

I think you must be getting paid by the word. Sure youvdid.

fuck off JimR

[JimR]

fuck off JimR

Seriously? You want to go there?

[Mr. Appropriate]

Seriously? You want to go there?

not really. but here we are.

[NeilT]

I absolutely knew both were going to be home runs.  Really.

[LonghornCDR]

I vote Game 2 as the best because it was on the road (and because I was there). 

As far as Marwin vs. Brad on the unexpected HR scale, it’s not even close based on the year Marwin had.  Brad’s was way more unexpected.   Now include the pitchers in the equation, and a game-tying homer against Farnsworth is way more expected than one against Jansen. 

[NeilT]

I vote Game 2 as the best because it was on the road (and because I was there). 

I was at Game 5.  Best. Game. Ever.

[JimR]

not really. but here we are.

Nope. That’s where you are, and you are making a mistake. I have friends here too.

[JimR]

I was at Game 5.  Best. Game. Ever.

I was also, and yes it was.

[Lefty]

Ausmus
Burke
Marwin

Profit

[homer]

Ausmus
Burke
Marwin

Profit

Kent?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I was there to see Berkman's grand slam to get the Astros back in the game. Then Ausmus' to send it to extras, then Burke's for the win. Such a great game. Topped only by game 5 this year, and dammit, I wasn't there.

[Navin R Johnson]

Kent?

Hatcher
Despite losing the game, I will never forget that Billy club. 

[juliogotay]

Hatcher
Despite losing the game, I will never forget that Billy club.

that one really sticks in my mind, too. Maybe because it was in the Dome where the long ball was less than common.

[Aussie Astro]

I was there to see Berkman's grand slam to get the Astros back in the game. Then Ausmus' to send it to extras, then Burke's for the win. Such a great game. Topped only by game 5 this year, and dammit, I wasn't there.

I remember the game game pretty well, that was before I had MLBtv and had to watch the games on the radio.  I think it started at 2:00 am local and the plan was to get the win and hopefully grab an hour of sleep after the game before I went into work... that didn't happen.

[Mr. Appropriate]

I absolutely knew both were going to be home runs.  Really.

NeilT, and I really believe you. Most likely a reward from the BBGs for the many ways you honor them. It is also possible that the spices found in Frito Pie act to de-calcify the pineal  gland, thus opening the third eye and providing you with subgenius-like powers in times of stress (like when the Astros are behind in the 9th and/or (both!) struggling to digest Frito Pie).

[NeilT]

NeilT, and I really believe you. Most likely a reward from the BBGs for the many ways you honor them. It is also possible that the spices found in Frito Pie act to de-calcify the pineal  gland, thus opening the third eye and providing you with subgenius-like powers in times of stress (like when the Astros are behind in the 9th and/or (both!) struggling to digest Frito Pie).

You're probably right.  It was kind of a gut feeling. 

[subnuclear]

I just watched a video of Ausmus's home run and I'm still not sure about it.

Anyway, when's the last time you watched Beyond the Glory : Brad Ausmus? Probably too long.

[Mr. Appropriate]

You're probably right.  It was kind of a gut feeling.

smile and a belly-laugh. well done.

[BudGirl]

I just watched a video of Ausmus's home run and I'm still not sure about it.

Anyway, when's the last time you watched Beyond the Glory : Brad Ausmus? Probably too long.

Want to bet???

[JimR]

You're probably right.  It was kind of a gut feeling.

Very good. Wonder if Mr. Wordy got it?

[Fredia]

what is so awesome is our grands and great grands will be discussing this ws with awe and wonder. I do not see how it could ever be replicated

[subnuclear]

Want to bet???

"Probably"

[Limey]

Factoid: Altuve’s 3-run homer off Maeda to tie Game 5 followed a 9-pitch walk by Springer and a 10-pitch walk by Bregman off Kershaw with two outs and nobody on.

Here’s another I saw:   The Astros faced 3 elimination games this post-season, they never trailed at any point in any of them. 

[JimR]

Here’s another I saw:   The Astros faced 3 elimination games this post-season, they never trailed at any point in any of them.

and outscored the opponents in them 16-2

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I still can't get over McCuller's lasting less than 3 innings,  hitting 4 batters, and the Astros escaping with zero runs allowed.

[JimR]

I still can't get over McCuller's lasting less than 3 innings,  hitting 4 batters, and the Astros escaping with zero runs allowed.

The luck we did not have in Game 6 showed up in Game 7. They squared up balls with runners on in the first and second, but hit them right at Altuve and Correa.

[HudsonHawk]

The luck we did not have in Game 6 showed up in Game 7. They squared up balls with runners on in the first and second, but hit them right at Altuve and Correa.

The biggest outs in Game 7 may have been Taylor's line drive double play. 

[JimR]

The biggest outs in Game 7 may have been Taylor's line drive double play.

Don’t forget Pederson’s smash to Altuve with the bases loaded in the first.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Don’t forget Pederson’s smash to Altuve with the bases loaded in the first.

Of all the Dodgers,  he's the one I actually dislike.   

He's a cross between Chipper Jones and AJ Perszinsky (Yes I butchered his name,  screw him). 

ETA: that comparison may have been plagiarized from a GZ. 

[toddthebod]

I didn't like Pederson.  But then after his abomination home run trot, I really started to hate him.  I hope that the next Astros pitcher to face him (no matter how long its takes) drills him right in the ribs. 

[Mr. Appropriate]

I still can't get over McCuller's lasting less than 3 innings,  hitting 4 batters, and the Astros escaping with zero runs allowed.

When you put it like that it does seem a little miraculous. I thought the Dodgers showed some class in the way they handled being hit.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

When you put it like that it does seem a little miraculous. I thought the Dodgers showed some class in the way they handled being hit.

So the real lesson here is if you're gonna miss with your fastball in game 7 of the WS, be sure to miss it somewhere on the batter's anatomy.

[Mr. Happy]

fuck off JimR

I'd be careful there. Coach has a lot of friends here, including me.

[JimR]

When you put it like that it does seem a little miraculous. I thought the Dodgers showed some class in the way they handled being hit.

No class required. They knew he was not trying to hit them.

[Bench]

No class required. They knew he was not trying to hit them.

Plus they were happy to be on base.

[HudsonHawk]

When you put it like that it does seem a little miraculous. I thought the Dodgers showed some class in the way they handled being hit.

What did you expect them to do?  They got four free baserunners in the first three innings.  They should have been thrilled. 

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Here's a link to some game 2 factoids.  Little did any of us know the inanity that awaited in Game 5.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/259804050/10-amazing-facts-from-2017-world-series-game-2/

No one could have seen Gonzalez's game-tying home run off Jansen coming. Jansen had never blown a postseason save, and Gonzalez's homer came on an 0-2 count against Jansen's signature cutter. Before Game 2, Jansen had thrown 632 cutters in 0-2 counts in his career, including the postseason. Only two -- 0.3 percent -- had been hit for home runs -- against Melvin Upton Jr. and Denard Span in 2016. Those were also the only previous 0-2 homers Jansen had allowed.

[Duke]

I didn't like Pederson.  But then after his abomination home run trot, I really started to hate him.  I hope that the next Astros pitcher to face him (no matter how long its takes) drills him right in the ribs.

I don't like him either.  In fact I believe that if he was in the AL he  would eventually reach the upper levels of my dislike reserved for the likes of Pooholes and Larry Wayne.  Smug shitass.

[Ty in Tampa]

I don't like him either.  In fact I believe that if he was in the AL he  would eventually reach the upper levels of my dislike reserved for the likes of Pooholes and Larry Wayne.  Smug shitass.

While I was trying to keep a clamp on my schadenfreude as Game 7 had concluded, I couldn't help but wonder what kind of dance Pederson was doing in the Dodgers' clubhouse.

[Mr. Appropriate]

No class required. They knew he was not trying to hit them.

Agreed that it was obvious that McCullers wasn't trying to hit anyone. But in and out of a baseball game I've observed people act less than classy over much less.

[Mr. Appropriate]

What did you expect them to do?  They got four free baserunners in the first three innings.  They should have been thrilled.

A range of behavior somewhere between Biggio and Ventura's responses to getting hit...Justin Turner didn't look exactly thrilled to get plunked twice in a row but I thought he handled it well when he might not have. Better than Wells giving the crowd extra time to boo Yuli, better than Joc strap's victory dance, I thought four, even unintentional, hit batters was a lot. Being behind in game seven of the world series helped the dodger players focus on the positive side of the free base.

But then again, I'm just fine with not agreeing on what is or isn't classy behavior. 

[Mr. Appropriate]

I'd be careful there. Coach has a lot of friends here, including me.

I told JimR to fuck off because I thought he was being a dick. He throws " fuck off" around pretty freely, seems to take it pretty hard if he gets one himself. If you would, reread the exchange and if you think I am out of line let me know.

[HudsonHawk]

While I was trying to keep a clamp on my schadenfreude as Game 7 had concluded, I couldn't help but wonder what kind of dance Pederson was doing in the Dodgers' clubhouse.

During the post-game interview, I half wanted George Springer to say "hey Pederson...[make the money sign]...fuck you!"  But I'm not *that* big of an asshole.

[HudsonHawk]

A range of behavior somewhere between Biggio and Ventura's responses to getting hit...Justin Turner didn't look exactly thrilled to get plunked twice in a row but I thought he handled it well when he might not have. Better than Wells giving the crowd extra time to boo Yuli, better than Joc strap's victory dance, I thought four, even unintentional, hit batters was a lot. Being behind in game seven of the world series helped the dodger players focus on the positive side of the free base.

But then again, I'm just fine with not agreeing on what is or isn't classy behavior.

No one likes getting hit, but clearly none of it was intentional, and the Dodgers benefited from the baserunners.  Did you expect Turner to get tossed from Game 7 just to show he's some how manly?  It had nothing to do with being "classy" and everything to do with trying to win Game 7 of the World Series. 

[NeilT]

No one likes getting hit, but clearly none of it was intentional, and the Dodgers benefited from the baserunners.  Did you expect Turner to get tossed from Game 7 just to show he's some how manly?  It had nothing to do with being "classy" and everything to do with trying to win Game 7 of the World Series.

All that game needed was a good brawl.  Wasn't going to happen, but it's fun to think about. 

Other than Pederson and Yuli, I thought the teams' demeanor generally was great, and part of what made it such a fine series.  The post-series ad in the Chronicle was also a nice touch, though I doubt the players knew anything about it.   

[Astros Fan in Big D]

During the post-game interview, I half wanted George Springer to say "hey Pederson...[make the money sign]...fuck you!"  But I'm not *that* big of an asshole.

Of all the idiotic on field celebrations,  the money thing is the one that identifies the celebrant as a class A jackwagon.

[Mr. Appropriate]

No one likes getting hit, but clearly none of it was intentional, and the Dodgers benefited from the baserunners.  Did you expect Turner to get tossed from Game 7 just to show he's some how manly?  It had nothing to do with being "classy" and everything to do with trying to win Game 7 of the World Series.

No, I didn't expect that. I thought that was clear in my prior post, obviously it wasn't. I'm bored of this non-conversation. Hope you are too.

[Mr. Appropriate]

All that game needed was a good brawl.  Wasn't going to happen, but it's fun to think about. 

Other than Pederson and Yuli, I thought the teams' demeanor generally was great, and part of what made it such a fine series.  The post-series ad in the Chronicle was also a nice touch, though I doubt the players knew anything about it.

+1. Though I also think Puig's relationship with his bat was a bit unorthodox for audiences outside of LA--i wonder if the bat prefers to be addressed with traditional pronouns or uses "they and them."

What was the Chronicle Ad?

[NeilT]

+1. Though I also think Puig's relationship with his bat was a bit unorthodox for audiences outside of LA--i wonder if the bat prefers to be addressed with traditional pronouns or uses "they and them."

What was the Chronicle Ad?

http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2017/11/05/260718954/the-dodgers-took-out-a-full-page-ad-in-a-local-paper-to-wish-the-astros-congratulations

[Mr. Appropriate]

http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2017/11/05/260718954/the-dodgers-took-out-a-full-page-ad-in-a-local-paper-to-wish-the-astros-congratulations

Damn. Is that classy? Because I sure think it is. Hope the Astros don't have reason to take out a similar ad for the Dodgers.

Did the Astros do that for the White Sox? This is a common practice?

[MRaup]

http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2017/11/05/260718954/the-dodgers-took-out-a-full-page-ad-in-a-local-paper-to-wish-the-astros-congratulations

What's SUPER classy is a Dodger reporter telling us how GODDAMN CLASSY this is via Twitter.

The gesture is great, but don't break an arm jacking yourself/your team off.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

More factoids,  this time game 5:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/10/29/world-series-10-crazy-facts-astros-insane-game-5-win-against-dodgers/812228001/


Dodgers were 49-1 when Kershaw had a 4 run lead.

[Navin R Johnson]

What's SUPER classy is a Dodger reporter telling us how GODDAMN CLASSY this is via Twitter.

The gesture is great, but don't break an arm jacking yourself/your team off.

Disagree

-Texas Rangers

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Damn. Is that classy? Because I sure think it is. Hope the Astros don't have reason to take out a similar ad for the Dodgers.

Did the Astros do that for the White Sox? This is a common practice?

IIRC, they did. Don’t know if it’s common or not.

[NeilT]

Damn. Is that classy? Because I sure think it is. Hope the Astros don't have reason to take out a similar ad for the Dodgers.

Did the Astros do that for the White Sox? This is a common practice?

I doubt if they took up a collection among the players, but it was a nice gesture.

[JimR]

No, I didn't expect that. I thought that was clear in my prior post, obviously it wasn't. I'm bored of this non-conversation. Hope you are too.

“I am bored with this conversation.” Is that one of the several steps of trolldome archived somewhere?

[BudGirl]

“I am bored with this conversation.” Is that one of the several steps of trolldome archived somewhere?

Who isn't tired of that "conversation?" 

[Mr. Appropriate]

“I am bored with this conversation.” Is that one of the several steps of trolldome archived somewhere?

I call bullshit on you not knowing the steps of trolldome by heart. Or perhaps your question was rhetorical, and you are switching from being a dick to a douchebag. Either way go fuck yourself.

[TxRascal]

I call bullshit on you not knowing the steps of trolldome by heart. Or perhaps your question was rhetorical, and you are switching from being a dick to a douchebag. Either way go fuck yourself.

Captain Obvious, you Sir are becoming tiresome.

It is neither wise nor effective to rise to every slight or aspersion you feel is cast your way.

To quote the time honored First Truth of the Talk Zone - "Read more, post less"

[geezerdonk]

Like the desert rose, an ephemeral bloom and a fleeting scent.

[JimR]

I call bullshit on you not knowing the steps of trolldome by heart. Or perhaps your question was rhetorical, and you are switching from being a dick to a douchebag. Either way go fuck yourself.

My, my. Colt .45 has a twin.

[BudGirl]

I call bullshit on you not knowing the steps of trolldome by heart. Or perhaps your question was rhetorical, and you are switching from being a dick to a douchebag. Either way go fuck yourself.

Cut the shit out.  The Astros won the World Series and this shit gets started?

[Mr. Appropriate]

Captain Obvious, you Sir are becoming tiresome.

It is neither wise nor effective to rise to every slight or aspersion you feel is cast your way.

To quote the time honored First Truth of the Talk Zone - "Read more, post less"

good advice, I'll heed it. sincerely.  have a great weekend.

[Mr. Appropriate]

Like the desert rose, an ephemeral bloom and a fleeting scent.

not quite sure what you mean by this  but my guess is you are fondly remembering your finger.

[Mr. Appropriate]

Cut the shit out.  The Astros won the World Series and this shit gets started?

Don't think this shit has much to do with the Astros, but you make a good point. Hope your master finds work soon.

[JimR]

Don't think this shit has much to do with the Astros, but you make a good point. Hope your master finds work soon.

You are an asshole. Leave her the fuck alone. Curse me all you want. No one will care. But leave BG alone.

[The Spleen]

Don't think this shit has much to do with the Astros, but you make a good point. Hope your master finds work soon.

Roy Moore is posting in the TZ now?
Fuck off.

[doyce7]

Really? Going at BG now? Fuck you

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Mr. Appropriate]

Cut the shit out.  The Astros won the World Series and this shit gets started?

BudGirl, out of abundance of caution, I want to make it clear to you that I am not "going after you" like some people on the board seem to think. I think you are a bright spot here and appreciate your contribution to the community.

 I agree with you. I think the conversation between JimR and myself is shit. But please consider this, who is the person on this board who can't get enough of this shit? Over the many years how many threads have this kind of sad, aggressive, hostile shit in them? What is the common denominator?

From my view, I think the answer is JimR. I think he can't get enough of this shit. Maybe you see it differently, I am wrong multiple times every fucking day.

JimR obviously likes you and might listen to you. JimR has a lot of friends here, but I think he needs at least one more to let him know when he is out of line.

In case it has been misunderstood, saying "hope your master finds work soon," refers to Brad Ausmus being between gigs in baseball. Since you refer to yourself as the Slave of Brad Ausmus, I intended that has a joke, not an insult. You and I both like Brad, albeit differently. If someone in your life who others here think of as "your master" is out of work--that is an unfortunate coincidence.

Genuinely wish you, and your devotion to Brad Ausmus all the best--yours is a love greater than any restraining order. So if I have offended you, I apologize. No offense was intended and though a bit wordy, I hope it removes any of the ambiguity in my prior post.

[JimR]

BudGirl, out of abundance of caution, I want to make it clear to you that I am not "going after you" like some people on the board seem to think. I think you are a bright spot here and appreciate your contribution to the community.

 I agree with you. I think the conversation between JimR and myself is shit. But please consider this, who is the person on this board who can't get enough of this shit? Over the many years how many threads have this kind of sad, aggressive, hostile shit in them? What is the common denominator?

From my view, I think the answer is JimR. I think he can't get enough of this shit. Maybe you see it differently, I am wrong multiple times every fucking day.

JimR obviously likes you and might listen to you. JimR has a lot of friends here, but I think he needs at least one more to let him know when he is out of line.

In case it has been misunderstood, saying "hope your master finds work soon," refers to Brad Ausmus being between gigs in baseball. Since you refer to yourself as the Slave of Brad Ausmus, I intended that has a joke, not an insult. You and I both like Brad, albeit differently. If someone in your life who others here think of as "your master" is out of work--that is an unfortunate coincidence.

Genuinely wish you, and your devotion to Brad Ausmus all the best--yours is a love greater than any restraining order. So if I have offended you, I apologize. No offense was intended and though a bit wordy, I hope it removes any of the ambiguity in my prior post.

You are too in love with verbosity or too dumb to take the hint from many, not only me. Whichever it is, STFU.

[VirtualBob]

What an inappropriate name. One of the admins should change it to RMPLstiltskin.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

The "conversation" is riddled with nuance and inside jokes. Some of us actually know each other. Try being less reactive  Lose a bit of your ego and you will find things more pleasurable. Or you can go fuck yourself. I'm fine either way.

[Fredia]

someone should write a owa tz history.   Those of you who know my writing style, know better than to ask me.

[BudGirl]

BudGirl, out of abundance of caution, I want to make it clear to you that I am not "going after you" like some people on the board seem to think. I think you are a bright spot here and appreciate your contribution to the community.

 I agree with you. I think the conversation between JimR and myself is shit. But please consider this, who is the person on this board who can't get enough of this shit? Over the many years how many threads have this kind of sad, aggressive, hostile shit in them? What is the common denominator?

From my view, I think the answer is JimR. I think he can't get enough of this shit. Maybe you see it differently, I am wrong multiple times every fucking day.

JimR obviously likes you and might listen to you. JimR has a lot of friends here, but I think he needs at least one more to let him know when he is out of line.

In case it has been misunderstood, saying "hope your master finds work soon," refers to Brad Ausmus being between gigs in baseball. Since you refer to yourself as the Slave of Brad Ausmus, I intended that has a joke, not an insult. You and I both like Brad, albeit differently. If someone in your life who others here think of as "your master" is out of work--that is an unfortunate coincidence.

Genuinely wish you, and your devotion to Brad Ausmus all the best--yours is a love greater than any restraining order. So if I have offended you, I apologize. No offense was intended and though a bit wordy, I hope it removes any of the ambiguity in my prior post.

"apology" accepted but stop trying to police the board.

[JimR]

The "conversation" is riddled with nuance and inside jokes. Some of us actually know each other. Try being less reactive  Lose a bit of your ego and you will find things more pleasurable. Or you can go fuck yourself. I'm fine either way.

Excellent

[Limey]

BCk to the topic at hand...

Four times in the postseason Hinch let a reliever finish a game by getting 11 outs or more—the first time in any postseason a team had so many lengthy game-finishing outings. Those four outings were as many as managed by every other team combined in the previous 26 postseasons.  Each one of the four was a different pitcher. 

Hinch was nails this post-season. 

[juliogotay]

BCk to the topic at hand...

Four times in the postseason Hinch let a reliever finish a game by getting 11 outs or more—the first time in any postseason a team had so many lengthy game-finishing outings. Those four outings were as many as managed by every other team combined in the previous 26 postseasons.  Each one of the four was a different pitcher. 

Hinch was nails this post-season.

Interesting. I wonder if this was the plan going into the postseason or if reaction on the fly by Hinch. I believe the latter when he saw Giles was struggling to close games out.

[D.WARD]

BudGirl, out of abundance of caution, I want to make it clear to you that I am not "going after you" like some people on the board seem to think. I think you are a bright spot here and appreciate your contribution to the community.

 I agree with you. I think the conversation between JimR and myself is shit. But please consider this, who is the person on this board who can't get enough of this shit? Over the many years how many threads have this kind of sad, aggressive, hostile shit in them? What is the common denominator?

From my view, I think the answer is JimR. I think he can't get enough of this shit. Maybe you see it differently, I am wrong multiple times every fucking day.

JimR obviously likes you and might listen to you. JimR has a lot of friends here, but I think he needs at least one more to let him know when he is out of line.

In case it has been misunderstood, saying "hope your master finds work soon," refers to Brad Ausmus being between gigs in baseball. Since you refer to yourself as the Slave of Brad Ausmus, I intended that has a joke, not an insult. You and I both like Brad, albeit differently. If someone in your life who others here think of as "your master" is out of work--that is an unfortunate coincidence.

Genuinely wish you, and your devotion to Brad Ausmus all the best--yours is a love greater than any restraining order. So if I have offended you, I apologize. No offense was intended and though a bit wordy, I hope it removes any of the ambiguity in my prior post.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. 

The World Series is over.  You can go back to being a Rangers fan now.  U FOO!

[NeilT]

Interesting. I wonder if this was the plan going into the postseason or if reaction on the fly by Hinch. I believe the latter when he saw Giles was struggling to close games out.

It was particularly apparent because of how Roberts handled his pitching.  If there was any single thing that won the series, it was how Hinch handled the pen.  Well that and Springer's hitting.  And the plays at the plate.  And lots of other stuff. 

[homer]

Bigger turning point in the series: Marwin's homerun of Jansen or Yuli's homerun off Kershaw?

[Navin R Johnson]

Marwin for me.  It was like Rocky 4 when Rocky got Drago to bleed.

Duke: You Cut him! You HURT him! You see. You see. He's not a Machine, He's a Man!

Plus it was in the 9th. Even without Yuli's homer, there is a decent chance the Astros still win game 5.

[Limey]

Interesting. I wonder if this was the plan going into the postseason or if reaction on the fly by Hinch. I believe the latter when he saw Giles was struggling to close games out.

It seemed to me that he was happy to stay with the hot hand, especially when the DH was "in vogue".  In the WS, Roberts seemed constrained by the stats and perceived advantages of certain match-ups while Hinch, ironically for the famously data-driven Astros, seemed to rely more on what he was seeing from his pitcher at that moment.  I wonder if baseball will ever again see a pitcher close out a game throwing 24 consecutive curveballs?

We know how things worked out, but some of it also has to be down to the fact that the Astros pitchers were prepared for the Dodgers' hitters in a way that the Dodgers' pitchers were not for the Astros.  The Astros knew the Dodgers could hit a low fastball, so trying to use a slider off a low fastball wasn't going to be successful.  Instead, they worked the fastball high, setting up the curve, knowing that the Dodgers would have trouble getting on top of the high fastball if they were thinking about the curve and, if they cheated on the fastball, they were dead meat if it wasn't one.  The strikeout rates for some of their vaunted™ hitters was astounding - especially Puig and Bellinger.

Meanwhile, the Dodgers stuck to their day-in, day-out pitch routines, and got clobbered.  Even Kershaw got royally thumped in Game #5 (4.2 IP, 6ER, 2Ks).  The Dodgers seemed to expect the Astros to make outs like it was a regular season game against the Padres.  They failed to adapt, were unable to improvise and so they failed to overcome.  Maybe it was inevitable, the Astros' lineup being that good, but they were supposed to have superior pitching and, notably, a vastly superior pen, but when it came down to it, their big name pitchers were the ones getting clobbered at the most inopportune times.  Contrast that to the Astros who closed out games with (no offense) reclamation projects like Peacock and Morton.

[Limey]

Bigger turning point in the series: Marwin's homerun of Jansen or Yuli's homerun off Kershaw?

Marwin's dinger.  We lose Game #2 without it and - while I did not believe and bristled at the suggestion that Game #2...TWO...was a must-win for the Astros, it was hard to see them winning 4 out of 5 if they dropped that game.  In theory, we might not even get to Yuli's at-bat in Game #5 without Marwin's poke.

[Limey]

Marwin for me.  It was like Rocky 4 when Rocky got Drago to bleed.

If it bleeds, we can kill it.

[Fredia]

I know several Stranger fans for life who are sporting the other Texas baseball teams WORLD SERIES shirts.

[Limey]

I know several Stranger fans for life who are sporting the other Texas baseball teams WORLD SERIES shirts.

You needed to put "fans" in inverted commas.

It is a giant monkey off the Astros' back to get a WS win before the odious Rangers of Arlington.

[Mr. Happy]

The biggest mismatch of the WS was Hinch versus Roberts. I'm glad that Roberts chose to manage like Brad Mills.

[Bench]

Bigger turning point in the series: Marwin's homerun of Jansen or Yuli's homerun off Kershaw?

Game 5 never happens if Game 2 doesn't. 

[Limey]

Game 5 never happens if Game 2 doesn't.

Thanks Yogi.

[NeilT]

Thanks Yogi.

He's very process-oriented. 

[Reuben]

Marwin might have hit the most important HR in Astros history.

[Limey]

Marwin might have hit the most important HR in Astros history.

The thought of going down in 4 straight games again is horrible and makes me feel dirty.  To counter that, we can bathe in the glory that was Game #5.

[toddthebod]

The thought of going down in 4 straight games again is horrible and makes me feel dirty.  To counter that, we can bathe in the glory that was Game #5.

Thanks.   I will literally never get tired of watching the highlights from game 5. 

[Bench]

To counter that, we can bathe in the glory that was Game #5.

That is the good stuff!

[Astros Fan in Big D]

The biggest mismatch of the WS was Hinch versus Roberts. I'm glad that Roberts chose to manage like Brad Mills.

Several times commentators used the phrase "manages the game in front of him" in describing AJ.

What a performance by him all year.

[Navin R Johnson]

Speaking of AJ, anyone know his contract details?   I know he signed an extension at some point.

[Waldo]

To me, one thing that has gotten overlooked is Bregman's home run off Jansen in the 9th inning of Game 4.  It gave him a frame of reference for his game-winning AB against Jansen in Game 5.  Maybe not as important as Marwin's HR in Game 2, but would the Astros have won Game 5 without Bregman's seemingly meaningless (at the time) home run in Game 4?

[Astros Fan in Big D]

To me, one thing that has gotten overlooked is Bregman's home run off Jansen in the 9th inning of Game 4.  It gave him a frame of reference for his game-winning AB against Jansen in Game 5.  Maybe not as important as Marwin's HR in Game 2, but would the Astros have won Game 5 without Bregman's seemingly meaningless (at the time) home run in Game 4?

Immediately after game 5, still breathless,  Bregman said he was looking cutter because he  homered on the slider the night before.

So yes,  absolutely the HR he hit before played into his approach in the game 5 10th

[homer]

To me, one thing that has gotten overlooked is Bregman's home run off Jansen in the 9th inning of Game 4.  It gave him a frame of reference for his game-winning AB against Jansen in Game 5.  Maybe not as important as Marwin's HR in Game 2, but would the Astros have won Game 5 without Bregman's seemingly meaningless (at the time) home run in Game 4?

Not be inAppropriate, but based on what was written about Bregman in the ALDS series I knew that homerun wasn't nothing when it happened. For that reason, I had complete confidence in Bregman in game 5.

[Waldo]

Immediately after game 5, still breathless,  Bregman said he was looking cutter because he  homered on the slider the night before.

So yes,  absolutely the HR he hit before played into his approach in the game 5 10th

I know.  Just saying that outside of Bregman's comment the Game 4 homer hasn't gotten much attention.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I know.  Just saying that outside of Bregman's comment the Game 4 homer hasn't gotten much attention.

Ah. That's just because most people aren't the savants we are here at OWA.

"The book" on pitchers (and hitters) gets much more info during these playoff series.   Smoltz also touched on one of the pitfalls of doing things the Roberts way: if you keep trotting out pitcher after pitcher,  chances are someone is going to fail. Do it night after night, and game 5 might happen.

[juliogotay]

Ah. That's just because most people aren't the savants we are here at OWA.

"The book" on pitchers (and hitters) gets much more info during these playoff series.   Smoltz also touched on one of the pitfalls of doing things the Roberts way: if you keep trotting out pitcher after pitcher,  chances are someone is going to fail. Do it night after night, and game 5 might happen.

Smoltz was damn good in the postseason gig.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Smoltz was damn good in the postseason gig.

So glad fox didn't load the booth with multiple analysts like espn does.

[NeilT]

So glad fox didn't load the booth with multiple analysts like espn does.

It would have been better if they'd had someone to do the play-by-play. 

[BudGirl]

It would have been better if they'd had someone to do the play-by-play. 

or showed the whole field.  You wouldn't know if a team was in the shift.

[NeilT]

Ah. That's just because most people aren't the idiot savants we are here at OWA.

FIFY

[NeilT]

or showed the whole field.  You wouldn't know if a team was in the shift.

I never wanted to see a live game more.  All they wanted to do was show the face of the batter, then cut to the intense look of the pitcher, then cut to the face of the batter, then cut to the face of the pitcher.  Drove me nuts.

[Mr. Appropriate]

FIFY

definitely. definitely idiots.

[Limey]

Immediately after game 5, still breathless,  Bregman said he was looking cutter because he  homered on the slider the night before.

So yes,  absolutely the HR he hit before played into his approach in the game 5 10th

The rigors of a 7-game series.  Everyone gets to know everyone else's stuff.

[Limey]

Ah. That's just because most people aren't the savants we are here at OWA.

"The book" on pitchers (and hitters) gets much more info during these playoff series.   Smoltz also touched on one of the pitfalls of doing things the Roberts way: if you keep trotting out pitcher after pitcher,  chances are someone is going to fail. Do it night after night, and game 5 might happen.

To be fair, Game #5 was crazy.  Game #2 was when Roberts gorvelled his pen to a loss after he took Hill out after only 4.

[Limey]

or showed the whole field.  You wouldn't know if a team was in the shift.

More than once I thought someone had hit one through the gap into RF until the camera panned back and there was the 3rd baseman.  BuckPlugs had one job...

[Limey]

So glad fox didn't load the booth with multiple analysts like espn does.

The studio team was a critical mass of preening irrelevance.  There was nothing left to add to the stadium booth.

[Mr. Appropriate]

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. 

The World Series is over.  You can go back to being a Rangers fan now.  U FOO!

you just proved the infinite monkey theory. Out of the nonsense emerges a portion of "Billy Madison." Keep going!

[Fredia]

even i know when to quit hammering a headless nail

[Bench]

Game #2 was when Roberts gorvelled his pen to a loss after he took Hill out after only 4.

To be even further fair, Roberts was 50/50 on that approach.  Worked like a charm in Game 6.

[Mr. Appropriate]

Ah. That's just because most people aren't the savants we are here at OWA.

"The book" on pitchers (and hitters) gets much more info during these playoff series.   Smoltz also touched on one of the pitfalls of doing things the Roberts way: if you keep trotting out pitcher after pitcher,  chances are someone is going to fail. Do it night after night, and game 5 might happen.

I don't know man, there were two extremely close games that luckily both went the Astros' way. Roberts won just one less postseason victory than Hinch. Certainly pleased with the outcome, but am hesitant to claim that the big difference was the managers. Hinch definitely did an amazing job getting the most out of his team, especially his  bullpen. And also being patient with Springer.  I watched the Dodgers play seven games this year, and have no idea if Roberts could have used his players better.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

To be even further fair, Roberts was 50/50 on that approach.  Worked like a charm in Game 6.

The fair left town in October.

His team lost,  therefore he sucks and every decision he made was wrong.   He should have been fired like Farrell and Girardi.

In seriousness,  it does go back to the idea of managing the game in front of you vs being dogmatic.   His bullpen was in better shape than the Astros pen,  so making it a contest between relievers made sense.  But what if you play all your cards and its time bring in Jansen but you need 6 outs?  Did you really need to pull Hill that early?  Maybe,  maybe not.

Or to put it another way, Boston and especially NY thought they had superior bullpens.  And the Astros got to all of them.

[Limey]

To be even further fair, Roberts was 50/50 on that approach.  Worked like a charm in Game 6.

Hill got himself into a big jam in Game #6.  In Game #2, it was purely the manager's decision (that phrase sounds familiar...) to do a straight swap of Hill for Maeda between innings.  It was the whole third-time-through-the-order regular season doctrine that, in hindsight, should've been shelved in the post-season.

Once he'd done that, he was on a pitching treadmill and had to run like a bastard just to stand still.  Maeda begat Watson for one pitch, two outs (that phrase sounds familiar...) who begat Stripling (for four balls) who begat Morrow who begat Jansen (who coughed up the 2-run lead) who begat Fields (who gave up back-to-back jacks and a double) who begat Cingrani who begat McCarthy who was the last reliever available and who gave up the winning runs.

[Limey]

In seriousness,  it does go back to the idea of managing the game in front of you vs being dogmatic.   His bullpen was in better shape than the Astros pen,  so making it a contest between relievers made sense.  But what if you play all your cards and its time bring in Jansen but you need 6 outs?  Did you really need to pull Hill that early?  Maybe,  maybe not.

Or to put it another way, Boston and especially NY thought they had superior bullpens.  And the Astros got to all of them.

Yes, there's definitely a Tank Commander element to what happened to Roberts because he'd never faced a lineup as relentless and unforgiving as the Astros.  Which sort of brings me back around to him needing to throw away his regular season strategies because there was nothing regular about what was going on.  He was backed into corners of his own making.

Conversely, Hinch made perhaps one tactical misstep: not pinch-running for McCann when he singled in Game #6, instead only bringing in Fisher once McCann had wobbled his way over the 3B on a double that would've scored anyone else on the roster not used mostly to DH.  Of course, Reddick whiffing in front of the pitcher's spot had as much to do with that run not scoring as Hinch's late decision to pinch run but, if you're going to pinch run, do it straight away when he can do some damage.

For the record, if any of that sounds like whining bitchiness, it's not meant that way at all.  Just part of the fun of performing a microscopic dissection of everything that happened.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Speaking of the tank commander,  remember the gif of him flipping out in exasperation in the 2011 WS?

I thought of that when I first saw Roberts reaction to the Correa moon shot in the 7th inning of Game 5.  Roberts is a cool customer,  but this one got to him.

Around the 1:47 mark:
https://youtu.be/9GRNCez-Z9M

[Mr. Appropriate]

Yes, there's definitely a Tank Commander element to what happened to Roberts because he'd never faced a lineup as relentless and unforgiving as the Astros.  Which sort of brings me back around to him needing to throw away his regular season strategies because there was nothing regular about what was going on.  He was backed into corners of his own making.

Still Astros lineup was not so relentless and unforgiving at times in New York. Think it was pitching that contributed more in the NY series. Never watched so much post season baseball before and now appreciate how different it is from the regular season. Got what I wanted, Astros played the three best teams and beat them all. Astros lineup hit an amazing number of elite pitchers in game on the line (and season on the line) situations. Fun to wonder how many of the Killer ABC'S (Altuve, Bregman, Correa, Springer) could end up in the hall.

[juliogotay]

Speaking of the tank commander,  remember the gif of him flipping out in exasperation in the 2011 WS?

I thought of that when I first saw Roberts reaction to the Correa moon shot in the 7th inning of Game 5.  Roberts is a cool customer,  but this one got to him.

Around the 1:47 mark:
https://youtu.be/9GRNCez-Z9M

Dammit....my eyes started watering all over again watching that.

[Limey]

Still Astros lineup was not so relentless and unforgiving at times in New York. Think it was pitching that contributed more in the NY series. Never watched so much post season baseball before and now appreciate how different it is from the regular season. Got what I wanted, Astros played the three best teams and beat them all. Astros lineup hit an amazing number of elite pitchers in game on the line (and season on the line) situations. Fun to wonder how many of the Killer ABC'S (Altuve, Bregman, Correa, Springer) could end up in the hall.

Bregman is a new phenomenon so it's hard to make any predictions about him but, barring some bad luck, it seems likely that Altuve, Correa and Springer will end up in Cooperstown.  Hopefully all with H's on their caps.

As for beating the best teams, you can only beat who the game puts in front of you.  But I think it's clear that we caught a break in the ALCS getting the Yankees with home field advantage, instead of the Indians on the road.  That's not to say that the Astros would not have beaten the Indians, but the Yankees are built almost exclusively to win at home and their road performances suffer as a direct result.  In that series, of course, all 7 games were won by the home team, with the Yankees scoring a grand total of 3 runs at "hitter friendly" MMP in four games.

As an aside, it's ironic that the Astros were in danger of getting undone by the idiosyncrasies of Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium, in the first year since the removal of Tal's Hill.  I remember one looooong fly out by an Astro in the World Series (can't remember when / who) that would've had Taylor trying to make a play running up the hill backwards.  To my recollection, only Beltran made that look routine (but I have missed some time).

[Limey]

Speaking of the tank commander,  remember the gif of him flipping out in exasperation in the 2011 WS?

Makes a change from being asleep at the wheel.  Allegedly.

[Mr. Appropriate]

Bregman is a new phenomenon so it's hard to make any predictions about him but, barring some bad luck, it seems likely that Altuve, Correa and Springer will end up in Cooperstown.  Hopefully all with H's on their caps.

As for beating the best teams, you can only beat who the game puts in front of you.  But I think it's clear that we caught a break in the ALCS getting the Yankees with home field advantage, instead of the Indians on the road.  That's not to say that the Astros would not have beaten the Indians, but the Yankees are built almost exclusively to win at home and their road performances suffer as a direct result.  In that series, of course, all 7 games were won by the home team, with the Yankees scoring a grand total of 3 runs at "hitter friendly" MMP in four games.

As an aside, it's ironic that the Astros were in danger of getting undone by the idiosyncrasies of Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium, in the first year since the removal of Tal's Hill.  I remember one looooong fly out by an Astro in the World Series (can't remember when / who) that would've had Taylor trying to make a play running up the hill backwards.  To my recollection, only Beltran made that look routine (but I have missed some time).

I appreciate home field eccentricities (and the advantages they provide) but always thought Tal's hill was a poor execution of the idea. Of the four (and its hard to choose)  Bregman is my favorite and am looking forward to see what he does. Altuve is certainly one of the most likable men to perform at the very top level, but his agent isn't. Doubt Altuve will play for the Astros his whole career but hope he chooses to be remembered as one. 

[JimR]

you just proved the infinite monkey theory. Out of the nonsense emerges a portion of "Billy Madison." Keep going!

You have not learned a thing.

[Bench]

Hill got himself into a big jam in Game #6.  In Game #2, it was purely the manager's decision (that phrase sounds familiar...) to do a straight swap of Hill for Maeda between innings.  It was the whole third-time-through-the-order regular season doctrine that, in hindsight, should've been shelved in the post-season.

Both games he consistently applied the third-time-through-the-order rule (exception in Game 6 he technically faced Springer a third time for an IBB).  The only difference is that he got two extra outs in Game 6 before hitting that third-time-through (4 IP in G2 versus 4.2 IP in G6).  In both games Jansen pitched two innings. 

[NeilT]

Both games he consistently applied the third-time-through-the-order rule (exception in Game 6 he technically faced Springer a third time for an IBB).  The only difference is that he got two extra outs in Game 6 before hitting that third-time-through (4 IP in G2 versus 4.2 IP in G6).  In both games Jansen pitched two innings.

I guess one of the real story lines wasn't Roberts managing, but the fragility of Chapman and Kimbrel and Jansen et al. against that kind of lineup.

[Mr. Appropriate]

You have not learned a thing.

Nice Simpson's reference.

[Mr. Appropriate]

You have not learned a thing.

JimR,  why is it you remind me of ed kemper?

[toddthebod]

barring some bad luck, it seems likely that Altuve, Correa and Springer will end up in Cooperstown.  Hopefully all with H's on their caps.

Likely???  From your mouth to god's ear as they say.  But it is wayyy to early to start talking about the hall of fame for any of them.

I will say this, however.  Correa is already the best shortstop in Astros history.  I believe that Bregman will be the best third-baseman in Astros history.  The Astros have had some pretty good outfielders so I'm not sure where Springer fits in.  But Altuve compares very favorably to Biggio. 

[juliogotay]

Likely???  From your mouth to god's ear as they say.  But it is wayyy to early to start talking about the hall of fame for any of them.

I will say this, however.  Correa is already the best shortstop in Astros history.  I believe that Bregman will be the best third-baseman in Astros history.  The Astros have had some pretty good outfielders so I'm not sure where Springer fits in.  But Altuve compares very favorably to Biggio.

I don't see Biggio and Altuve as anywhere near the same player.

[Mr. Appropriate]

I don't see Biggio and Altuve as anywhere near the same player.

If you mean Biggio never had a post season like Altuve just had I agree. Nor did Biggio put up mvp batting production like Altuve in 2017. Biggio did perform at a very high level for a long time and earned his place in Cooperstown. One of the similarities I see is that they both seem like great men on and off the field. Hope Altuve stays healthy and has a long career.

[D.WARD]

JimR,  why is it you remind me of ed kemper?

U FOO!  Go back to Arlington. 

[VirtualBob]

U FOO!  Go back to Arlington.

Don't feed the bears trolls.

[The Spleen]

Speaking of the tank commander,  remember the gif of him flipping out in exasperation in the 2011 WS?

I thought of that when I first saw Roberts reaction to the Correa moon shot in the 7th inning of Game 5.  Roberts is a cool customer,  but this one got to him.

Around the 1:47 mark:
https://youtu.be/9GRNCez-Z9M

That reminded me of Garner throwing the chair in 2005...

[Limey]

Likely???  From your mouth to god's ear as they say.  But it is wayyy to early to start talking about the hall of fame for any of them.

I will say this, however.  Correa is already the best shortstop in Astros history.  I believe that Bregman will be the best third-baseman in Astros history.  The Astros have had some pretty good outfielders so I'm not sure where Springer fits in.  But Altuve compares very favorably to Biggio.

In order of liklitude:

Altuve is a hitting machine who has more pop than should be expected from someone with his mind-boggling average, rarely strikes out, has superior defensive skills and has that extra something that makes him an extraordinary teammate and player.

Correa has superior defensive skills at a (perhaps the) skill position in the defense.  He hits for high average with low a strikeout rate and far-above average power and overall production from his position.

Springer has solid defensive skills, hits for high average with low a strikeout rate and above average power for the outfield (he looks better against his peers when compared to Central Gardeners rather than RFers, though).  A WS MVP award is the sort of resume-boosting icing that will count in his favor, especially if he picks up a few more.


These are all young men putting on extraordinary displays.  If they continue at or near this level of play, they will cruise into the Hall, IMHO.  The "if" is why I said "likely" and not "locks", because there's far too much ground to traverse between now and then.  They will all need to play hard for another 10 years or so...or take the easy route and sign with the Yankees.

[Bench]

But Altuve compares very favorably to Biggio.

Very polite understatement. 

[NeilT]

Very polite understatement.

At this stage Altuve compares favorably to Ty Cobb.

[Mr. Appropriate]

Don't feed the bears trolls.

+1

but every now and then its fun to feed a troll and see what happens.

[juliogotay]

+1

but every now and then its fun to feed a troll and see what happens.

Not really.

[Mr. Appropriate]

Not really.

also a very polite understatement. let's see how many people agree.

[Bench]

At this stage Altuve compares favorably to Ty Cobb.

In both skill and deportment. 

[das]

Still Astros lineup was not so relentless and unforgiving at times in New York. Think it was pitching that contributed more in the NY series.

I'm going to push back a little here.  No lineup, not even the '27 Yanks, did not have periods that lacked production, especially against strong competition.  Just because a lineup is not producing at that moment does not mean they are not relentless and doing productive things like wearing down pitchers, getting deep into bullpens, etc...  The Astros pitching did indeed do well.  The offense was indeed relentless, so much so that they beat a very good team with good starters and an excellent bullpen.

[toddthebod]

Very polite understatement.

I had to think about how to state it.  I don't think you can possibly say that Altuve is better than Biggio.  I mean, just look at what Biggio did between 1994-2001.  He had ridiculous seasons. 

That being said, Altuve is more "fun" than Biggio and an easier player to like.

And Altuve has had success in the post-season and Biggio was generally a bust.   

[toddthebod]

In order of liklitude:

Altuve is a hitting machine who has more pop than should be expected from someone with his mind-boggling average, rarely strikes out, has superior defensive skills and has that extra something that makes him an extraordinary teammate and player.

Correa has superior defensive skills at a (perhaps the) skill position in the defense.  He hits for high average with low a strikeout rate and far-above average power and overall production from his position.

Springer has solid defensive skills, hits for high average with low a strikeout rate and above average power for the outfield (he looks better against his peers when compared to Central Gardeners rather than RFers, though).  A WS MVP award is the sort of resume-boosting icing that will count in his favor, especially if he picks up a few more.


These are all young men putting on extraordinary displays.  If they continue at or near this level of play, they will cruise into the Hall, IMHO.  The "if" is why I said "likely" and not "locks", because there's far too much ground to traverse between now and then.  They will all need to play hard for another 10 years or so...or take the easy route and sign with the Yankees.

I find it interesting that you say that Correa has superior defensive skills.  I totally agree.  And I was a little surprised that neither Correa, Springer, nor Altuve were at least finalists for golden gloves. 

I agree that if these guys continue at this level of play for 10 years, they will be likely hall of famers.  I just think that it is hard to judge whether or not Correa or Springer will be in the hall of fame when they have less than 2000 career at bats.  If Altuve wins the MVP this year, that would obviously be a major feather in his HOF hat. 

[juliogotay]

I find it interesting that you say that Correa has superior defensive skills.  I totally agree.  And I was a little surprised that neither Correa, Springer, nor Altuve were at least finalists for golden gloves. 

I agree that if these guys continue at this level of play for 10 years, they will be likely hall of famers.  I just think that it is hard to judge whether or not Correa or Springer will be in the hall of fame when they have less than 2000 career at bats.  If Altuve wins the MVP this year, that would obviously be a major feather in his HOF hat.

If Altuve wins the MVP TODAY.

[Limey]

I find it interesting that you say that Correa has superior defensive skills.  I totally agree.  And I was a little surprised that neither Correa, Springer, nor Altuve were at least finalists for golden gloves. 

Given how well they hit, this is a very curious omission.

I agree that if these guys continue at this level of play for 10 years, they will be likely hall of famers.  I just think that it is hard to judge whether or not Correa or Springer will be in the hall of fame when they have less than 2000 career at bats.  If Altuve wins the MVP this year, that would obviously be a major feather in his HOF hat.

Agreed.  With specific regard to Correa, I saw some comments from him where he recognized that he won't be able to play SS forever, and will likely migrate to the outfield at some point.  If and when that happens, it will be interesting to see if his time a SS will be recognized by the HoF voters or whether they'll lump him in with career outfielders at which point his offensive prowess will pale a little in comparison.

[HudsonHawk]

I had to think about how to state it.  I don't think you can possibly say that Altuve is better than Biggio.  I mean, just look at what Biggio did between 1994-2001.  He had ridiculous seasons. 

That being said, Altuve is more "fun" than Biggio and an easier player to like.

And Altuve has had success in the post-season and Biggio was generally a bust.

Biggio's best of his "ridiculous" seasons would be an average one for Altuve.  Biggio got on base a little more often and stole more bases, but Altuve hits with more power and drives in more runs.  Most of the difference is in where they hit in the order and ballparks.  Overall offensive production, Biggio's best is the expectation for Altuve.  Altuve is the far superior defensive player.  I'm baffled as to how anyone can say Biggio was the better player. 

[Ty in Tampa]

Although there are many similarities, Altuve to Biggio is apples to oranges. It's unfair to them both. We are blessed to have watched them both in  Astros unis...hopefully for many more years.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Although there are many similarities, Altuve to Biggio is apples to oranges. It's unfair to them both. We are blessed to have watched them both in  Astros unis...hopefully for many more years.

+1

[toddthebod]

Biggio's best of his "ridiculous" seasons would be an average one for Altuve.  Biggio got on base a little more often and stole more bases, but Altuve hits with more power and drives in more runs.  Most of the difference is in where they hit in the order and ballparks.  Overall offensive production, Biggio's best is the expectation for Altuve.  Altuve is the far superior defensive player.  I'm baffled as to how anyone can say Biggio was the better player.

Biggio had 9 seasons with 20+ home runs.  Altuve has had 2.  So I'm not sure how you say that Altuve has more power.  Biggio had 5 seasons with 118 runs + scored, including 146 in 1997.  In Altuve's 7 seasons, he has had two seasons of 100 + runs.   I love Altuve.  I enjoy watching him more a whole lot more than Biggio.  But Biggio was a consistently excellent player for many more years than Altuve has even been in baseball.   

 

[NeilT]

Biggio had 9 seasons with 20+ home runs.  Altuve has had 2.  So I'm not sure how you say that Altuve has more power.  Biggio had 5 seasons with 118 runs + scored, including 146 in 1997.  In Altuve's 7 seasons, he has had two seasons of 100 + runs.   I love Altuve.  I enjoy watching him more a whole lot more than Biggio.  But Biggio was a consistently excellent player for many more years than Altuve has even been in baseball.

To make that comparison, I think you'd have to compare Biggio at 27 to Altuve at 27.  Altuve is just now reaching what most of us would consider prime baseball years.

I guess my sense is that Biggio may have been one of the ten best second basemen ever.  If Altuve keeps going the way he's going he may be one of the twenty best players ever. 

[Waldo]

I find it interesting that you say that Correa has superior defensive skills.  I totally agree.  And I was a little surprised that neither Correa, Springer, nor Altuve were at least finalists for golden gloves. 

Sounds like someone needs to be reminded that Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove at first base despite starting 128 games as a DH.

Biggio's best of his "ridiculous" seasons would be an average one for Altuve.  Biggio got on base a little more often and stole more bases, but Altuve hits with more power and drives in more runs.  Most of the difference is in where they hit in the order and ballparks.  Overall offensive production, Biggio's best is the expectation for Altuve.  Altuve is the far superior defensive player.  I'm baffled as to how anyone can say Biggio was the better player. 

I did some comparisons of Altuve today vs. Biggio thru 1995.  Biggio ended 1995 with 4482 plate appearances; Altuve currently has 4311.  I was surprised to find that Altuve has more stolen bases than Biggio did at that point in his career.  Altuve has also already matched Biggio's mark for 30+ SB seasons for his entire career.

The full comparison of Biggo thru '95 vs. Altuve:

Slash lines: Biggio .285/.369/.415, Altuve .316/.362/.453
Hits: Biggio 1105, Altuve 1250
Doubles: Biggio 243, Altuve 221
Triples: Biggio 24, Altuve 23
HR: Biggio 79, Altuve 84
RBI: Biggio 389, Altuve 403
Runs: Biggio 615, Altuve 561
SB: Biggio 196, Altuve 231
K: Biggio 574, Altuve 462
WS rings: Biggio 0, Altuve 1

Of course, Biggio's peak years were still ahead of him, but Biggio was also two years older and his peak years have already been matched (if not eclipsed) by Altuve.

Altuve is clearly the better player.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Nice work,  Waldo.

The SB numbers surprised me the most.

[BudGirl]

Altuve is clearly the better player.

so far...

[Waldo]

so far...

Well, sure.

[NeilT]

I guess the results would be even more stark if you compared 27 to 27.  Nice work. 

[toddthebod]

To make that comparison, I think you'd have to compare Biggio at 27 to Altuve at 27.  Altuve is just now reaching what most of us would consider prime baseball years.

I guess my sense is that Biggio may have been one of the ten best second basemen ever.  If Altuve keeps going the way he's going he may be one of the twenty best players ever.

The problem with comparing the two through age 27 season (or through the 1995 seasons as some have done) is that Biggio played all of those seasons in the dome and Altuve is playing in MMP.  Big difference certainly in terms of HR numbers.  Plus, Biggio's first three seasons were as a catcher as opposed to a second baseman, which also impacts the offensive numbers. 

I definitely agree with Neil's latter sentiment. 

But if Altuve stopped playing tomorrow, would we say that he was one of the top ten second basemen of all time?  Probably not.  Which is why I don't think you can say that Altuve is a better player than Biggio at this time.

But I agree that if Altuve continues to produce as he is doing now, there is no question that we will think of him as being a better player than Biggio.       

[NeilT]

That K number is amazing. 

[HudsonHawk]

Biggio had 9 seasons with 20+ home runs.  Altuve has had 2.  So I'm not sure how you say that Altuve has more power.  Biggio had 5 seasons with 118 runs + scored, including 146 in 1997.  In Altuve's 7 seasons, he has had two seasons of 100 + runs.   I love Altuve.  I enjoy watching him more a whole lot more than Biggio.  But Biggio was a consistently excellent player for many more years than Altuve has even been in baseball.

Obviously Altuve has not played as long as Biggio did. Using counting stats is pointless. If you want to compare careers, that’s one thing. But to say Biggio was a better player than Altuve is is simply not born out in the numbers or in the anectdotal evidence.

[Aussie Astro]

Thankfully the void is over, wasn’t too sure I would survive it… anyway Perth Heat season opener has been played and won.  A 9 – 1 victory on the road is a nice way to start the season.   The Heat have four TB minor leaguers on the roster, one is a guy from Waco TX named Zacrey Law who had a night, two HR’s on debut will make you pretty popular at your new club.  I just realised tonight I won’t be in town for the Heat’s home opener but hopefully I can catch a game on the weekend.  I can’t wait to walk around the ball park with the rainbow jersey and Astros on field cap, I am really loving baseball right now and still cannot get enough of it right now.

[Limey]

Thankfully the void is over, wasn’t too sure I would survive it… anyway Perth Heat season opener has been played and won.  A 9 – 1 victory on the road is a nice way to start the season.   The Heat have four TB minor leaguers on the roster, one is a guy from Waco TX named Zacrey Law who had a night, two HR’s on debut will make you pretty popular at your new club.  I just realised tonight I won’t be in town for the Heat’s home opener but hopefully I can catch a game on the weekend.  I can’t wait to walk around the ball park with the rainbow jersey and Astros on field cap, I am really loving baseball right now and still cannot get enough of it right now.

Is every team in Australia called the "Heat"?  I suspect it's either that or the "Deadly Venomous Creatures".

As a fun aside, many moons ago I was working for Woodside on some insurance on their offshore platforms in the (uptown, top) Rankin Field offshore western Australia.  The safety manager explained to us how they ran all the possible emergency drills, with the exception of man-overboard drills.  "Why was that?" we asked.  "Well," he explained, "when we threw the dummies over the side, they were instantly ripped to pieces by a teeming school of sharks.  So we stopped doing that for sake of morale, but it did focus our guys' attention on handrail and safety line protocols!"

[VirtualBob]

Sounds like someone needs to be reminded that Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove at first base despite starting 128 games as a DH.

But those were error-free games at DH.

[juliogotay]

Obviously Altuve has not played as long as Biggio did. Using counting stats is pointless. If you want to compare careers, that’s one thing. But to say Biggio was a better player than Altuve is is simply not born out in the numbers or in the anectdotal evidence.

Astros have been blessed at 2B over the years. There is a good story in today's Chronicle about Doran's influence on Biggio. I would link it but I have reached my limit of free Chronicle on-line offerings for the month.

[Mr. Happy]

Biggio's best of his "ridiculous" seasons would be an average one for Altuve.  Biggio got on base a little more often and stole more bases, but Altuve hits with more power and drives in more runs.  Most of the difference is in where they hit in the order and ballparks.  Overall offensive production, Biggio's best is the expectation for Altuve.  Altuve is the far superior defensive player.  I'm baffled as to how anyone can say Biggio was the better player.

+1 It's not even close.

[Jacksonian]

Astros have been blessed at 2B over the years. There is a good story in today's Chronicle about Doran's influence on Biggio. I would link it but I have reached my limit of free Chronicle on-line offerings for the month.

For the past 34 years (since 1983) the Astros have had just 7 regular starters at second base: Doran, Candaele, Biggio, Kent, Matsui, Keppinger, and Altuve.

[Mr. Happy]

For the past 34 years (since 1983) the Astros have had just 7 regular starters at second base: Doran, Candaele, Biggio, Kent, Matsui, Keppinger, and Altuve.

Think of how good Dickie Thon might have been.

[juliogotay]

Think of how good Dickie Thon might have been.

I've tried for 30 not to think about good Thon might have been. (not as good as Correa but the standard has changed).

[Jacksonian]

I've tried for 30 not to think about good Thon might have been. (not as good as Correa but the standard has changed).

Fuck the steM.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I've tried for 30 not to think about good Thon might have been. (not as good as Correa but the standard has changed).

20 HR in a season for an Astros SS in the 80s.

What could have been.

[Aussie Astro]

Is every team in Australia called the "Heat"?  I suspect it's either that or the "Deadly Venomous Creatures".

As a fun aside, many moons ago I was working for Woodside on some insurance on their offshore platforms in the (uptown, top) Rankin Field offshore western Australia.  The safety manager explained to us how they ran all the possible emergency drills, with the exception of man-overboard drills.  "Why was that?" we asked.  "Well," he explained, "when we threw the dummies over the side, they were instantly ripped to pieces by a teeming school of sharks.  So we stopped doing that for sake of morale, but it did focus our guys' attention on handrail and safety line protocols!"

Not all called Heat, we also have the Perth Scorchers but I can see a theme.    Never been in, or on, the water up near the North West Shelf but I had a huge tiger shark (I think) swim under my boat in the Exmouth Gulf one time.  My boat is 4.5m and the fucker looked like it was nearly that length.  Saw a huge hammerhead out there once too, gives you a chill when you see them that close and you are only sitting in a tin can.    What time of the year were you there? The weather can be fucking brutal in the wet season.

[Aussie Astro]

Streaming the Perth Heat game in about three hours’ time for all you inson folks who can’t sleep.
http://www.theabl.com.au/content/page.jsp?ymd=20170914&content_id=254195482&fext=.jsp&sid=l595&vkey=league1

[MRaup]

Streaming the Perth Heat game in about three hours’ time for all you inson folks who can’t sleep.
http://www.theabl.com.au/content/page.jsp?ymd=20170914&content_id=254195482&fext=.jsp&sid=l595&vkey=league1

I've got the stream up, go Perth DANGEROUSLY DEADLY POISONOUS EVERYHINGS!

[Aussie Astro]

I've got the stream up, go Perth DANGEROUSLY DEADLY POISONOUS EVERYHINGS!

I see some of the shows on National Geographic and wonder how we survive.

[MRaup]

I see some of the shows on National Geographic and wonder how we survive.

And weirdly there's another person from Austin in the Youtube chat.

[MRaup]

And weirdly there's another person from Austin in the Youtube chat.

Also, it appears there are maybe 20 people at that game.

[Aussie Astro]

And weirdly there's another person from Austin in the Youtube chat.

I don't generally follow the youtube chat but I have been seen a couple of times where friends and relations of the import players will watch at all hours of the day like to comment.

[MRaup]

I don't generally follow the youtube chat but I have been seen a couple of times where friends and relations of the import players will watch at all hours of the day like to comment.

Lot of chat in the box, mostly just about MLB baseball. I stopped paying attention after the game started, because it's inane yammering.

[Aussie Astro]

Lot of chat in the box, mostly just about MLB baseball. I stopped paying attention after the game started, because it's inane yammering.

I would like to say the Perth broadcast is better, but I wont because you may check it out some day.

[MRaup]

I would like to say the Perth broadcast is better, but I wont because you may check it out some day.

I love the fact that the announcers sound like a brother and sister doing a podcast in their parents basement.

It's actually refreshingly nice. They're obviously enjoying themselves, and not taking it too seriously.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I like that ballcap the Aces are sporting.

[Aussie Astro]

I love the fact that the announcers sound like a brother and sister doing a podcast in their parents basement.

It's actually refreshingly nice. They're obviously enjoying themselves, and not taking it too seriously.

Yeah, the Wayne's World of sports broadcasting.

[MRaup]

PERTH VAUNTING!

[MRaup]

Lets move this to it's own thread...

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=119812.0

[Limey]

Lot of chat in the box, mostly just about MLB baseball. I stopped paying attention after the game started, because it's inane yammering.

See Buck, Plugs.