McCullers

[JimR]

I posted this in the GZ, but let's start the discussion here. I am out of patience with him, and I cannot imagine Hinch and Luhnow are far behind. Hinch said "He says he is ok, but ok is not enough to pitch in a game." I would trade him to someone who loves his potential, like VV, if we get dependable non-prima dona pitching back. Britton? A solid starter? I hope they leave him off the first playoff roster as a wakeup call.

[Mr. Happy]

I posted this in the GZ, but let's start the discussion here. I am out of patience with him, and I cannot imagine Hinch and Luhnow are far behind. Hinch said "He says he is ok, but ok is not enough to pitch in a game." I would trade him to someone who loves his potential, like VV, if we get dependable non-prima dona pitching back. Britton? A solid starter? I hope they leave him off the first playoff roster as a wakeup call.

I agree. When we drafted him, I was concerned that he'd be like his dad, who was great WHEN he was on the field. Let's sell high and move on.

[juliogotay]

I posted this in the GZ, but let's start the discussion here. I am out of patience with him, and I cannot imagine Hinch and Luhnow are far behind. Hinch said "He says he is ok, but ok is not enough to pitch in a game." I would trade him to someone who loves his potential, like VV, if we get dependable non-prima dona pitching back. Britton? A solid starter? I hope they leave him off the first playoff roster as a wakeup call.

I'm starting to lean your way. Another factor is he is Boros' client so he won't be around for his best years if he ever gets his ship pointed in the right direction.

[Bench]

I posted this in the GZ, but let's start the discussion here. I am out of patience with him, and I cannot imagine Hinch and Luhnow are far behind. Hinch said "He says he is ok, but ok is not enough to pitch in a game." I would trade him to someone who loves his potential, like VV, if we get dependable non-prima dona pitching back. Britton? A solid starter? I hope they leave him off the first playoff roster as a wakeup call.

Maybe I'm missing something or not reading between the lines properly, but if says he's good to go but the brass says his opinion doesn't carry the day, how is that prima-dona-ish?

[HudsonHawk]

Maybe I'm missing something or not reading between the lines properly, but if says he's good to go but the brass says his opinion doesn't carry the day, how is that prima-dona-ish?

I'm not in the clubhouse, but my guess is he's giving the old "well, if you really need me to go, I guess I'm ok..." and the brass are looking for him to be in there throwing shit around demanding to be given the ball, a la Rick Vaughan.  Plus it all started with him coming to them and saying he felt a little fatigued.  In short, I'm guessing he hasn't exactly done much to suggest he's ready to go. 

[Bench]

I'm not in the clubhouse, but my guess is he's giving the old "well, if you really need me to go, I guess I'm ok..." and the brass are looking for him to be in there throwing shit around demanding to be given the ball, a la Rick Vaughan.  Plus it all started with him coming to them and saying he felt a little fatigued.  In short, I'm guessing he hasn't exactly done much to suggest he's ready to go.

That is really frustrating.

[ValpoCory]

Peacock is Game 3.

[MusicMan]

Peacock is Game 3.

Co-signed


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[Bench]

Peacock is Game 3.

Definitely. 

[Uncle Charlie]

Peacock is Game 3.

+1

[JimR]

Maybe I'm missing something or not reading between the lines properly, but if says he's good to go but the brass says his opinion doesn't carry the day, how is that prima-dona-ish?

The team is in a pennant drive. McCullers has a strong start off a very long DL stay for a sore back. Before his next start he says "My arm is tired" so the scratch him. Hinch asks him is he is ready for the next start, and he says "I feel ok." Hinch responding saying ok is not enough for these games implies (I think) exasperation with his failure to pitch at a critical time when the team needs him. I bet there are similar feelings in the clubhouse.

McCullers was the #2 before Verlander and was #3 after. The team needs him to be the strong pitcher he was in the first half. Continuing to say "my arm is tired" during these critical days screams "I am not mentally tough. Please baby me and my arm."  It does to me anyway.

[Mr. Happy]

The team is in a pennant drive. McCullers has a strong start off a very long DL stay for a sore back. Before his next start he says "My arm is tired" so the scratch him. Hinch asks him is he is ready for the next start, and he says "I feel ok." Hinch responding saying ok is not enough for these games implies (I think) exasperation with his failure to pitch at a critical time when the team needs him. I bet there are similar feelings in the clubhouse.

McCullers was the #2 before Verlander and was #3 after. The team needs him to be the strong pitcher he was in the first half. Continuing to say my arm is tired during these critically days screams "I am not mentally tough. Please baby me and my arm."  It does to me anyway.

+1 I want a guy who says "I want the fucking ball."

[JimR]

I'm not in the clubhouse, but my guess is he's giving the old "well, if you really need me to go, I guess I'm ok..." and the brass are looking for him to be in there throwing shit around demanding to be given the ball, a la Rick Vaughan.  Plus it all started with him coming to them and saying he felt a little fatigued.  In short, I'm guessing he hasn't exactly done much to suggest he's ready to go.

That is exactly the vibe I inferred from Hinch's response ok is not good enough for these games. McHugh by contrast wants to return and is taking McCullers' next start.

[homer]

The team is in a pennant drive.

AJ and others have demonstrated consistently that they haven't felt any pressure or urgency in this regard. Sitting Altuve yesterday is an example. We can't say for sure that it was McCullers or an overly conservative management decision.

[jbm]

Don't know where I read it, but it was implied that his scheduled use tomorrow is out of the pen.  It sounded like it wasn't just a 'limit his innings' type thing but a 'we're transitioning you to the pen' type thing.  If so, it appears that Hinch is somewhat displeased with him and given up the idea that he would be a starter in the postseason.

[Bench]

The team is in a pennant drive. McCullers has a strong start off a very long DL stay for a sore back. Before his next start he says "My arm is tired" so the scratch him. Hinch asks him is he is ready for the next start, and he says "I feel ok." Hinch responding saying ok is not enough for these games implies (I think) exasperation with his failure to pitch at a critical time when the team needs him. I bet there are similar feelings in the clubhouse.

McCullers was the #2 before Verlander and was #3 after. The team needs him to be the strong pitcher he was in the first half. Continuing to say "my arm is tired" during these critical days screams "I am not mentally tough. Please baby me and my arm."  It does to me anyway.

Thanks for the explanation.  That makes sense.

[JimR]

AJ and others have demonstrated consistently that they haven't felt any pressure or urgency in this regard. Sitting Altuve yesterday is an example. We can't say for sure that it was McCullers or an overly conservative management decision.

Possible, but I do not think so.

[jbm]

Forget the idea about him throwing tomorrow.  The latest article in the Chron said he is still not ready to pitch out of the pen in a game and that Hinch is still hedging on whether his immediate future is as a starter or reliever.  However, this quote lends credence to the idea that Hinch isn't that pleased with him:

We want him to look right and feel right and be strong," Hinch said. "At this juncture of the season we don't have a lot of time for mistakes, so we want to make sure he gets off the mound with some energy, with some effort and just looks the part to be able to compete at this level.

[MikeyBoy]

Don't know where I read it, but it was implied that his scheduled use tomorrow is out of the pen.  It sounded like it wasn't just a 'limit his innings' type thing but a 'we're transitioning you to the pen' type thing.  If so, it appears that Hinch is somewhat displeased with him and given up the idea that he would be a starter in the postseason.

I've always thought McCullers was destined for the pen. With his lack of a consistent third pitch, inability to go deep into games and strikeout stuff, the bullpen seems like a good fit. I guess it really doesn't matter if he doesn't get his ass back to pitching.

[TerryPuhl21]

I'm good with him going out of the pen as well if we can get him healthy before October. He has playoff experience so a high leverage situation in the playoffs out of the pen shouldn't bother him. Keuchel, Verlander, Peacock and then McHugh/Morton is a rotation we can win with I think come October. With the stuff he has, assuming he can learn to get the fastball over more consistently, he could potentially be an Andrew Miller type of arm out of the pen. That is probably next year and beyond though assuming you don't trade him in the offseason.


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[BudGirl]

If he is moving to the pen, then get him there now.  There's no time during the playoffs for him to adjust to a new role.  And if we won't adjust then leave him off and add someone else.

[das]

I've always thought McCullers was destined for the pen. With his lack of a consistent third pitch, inability to go deep into games and strikeout stuff, the bullpen seems like a good fit. I guess it really doesn't matter if he doesn't get his ass back to pitching.

I understand this but have a concern that I wonder if you (and others) might share.  I've always thought more fragile pitchers were better suited to starting but this was based on my experience as a competitive runner, not playing ball.  It seems like the injury rates are much higher for athletes that perform at near peak intensity for a shorter duration (ala relief pitching) than athletes that perform at a high intensity for a longer duration (like a starter throwing at 80% to conserve energy to go deep into a game).  Thoughts?

[JimR]

Bullpen is crazy talk with his lack of command and control.

[TerryPuhl21]

Bullpen is crazy talk with his lack of command and control.

You are correct. He would have to show between now and playoffs that he could come out of the pen and throw strikes. If he can't, then I'm not sure he can contribute this post season.


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[Andyzipp]

Not that it excuses anything, but I wonder how much influence his father has on this.  Sr. had been publicly bitter (IIRC) about being pushed to pitch before he was healthy more than a few times.

[JimR]

Not that it excuses anything, but I wonder how much influence his father has on this.  Sr. had been publicly bitter (IIRC) about being pushed to pitch before he was healthy more than a few times.

My friend in baseball thinks this is a real possibility.

[juliogotay]

Not that it excuses anything, but I wonder how much influence his father has on this.  Sr. had been publicly bitter (IIRC) about being pushed to pitch before he was healthy more than a few times.

And I  wouldn't neglect the Boros factor.

[mrpink]

Man, you guys are like fucking piranhas.  It's entirely possible that he wants to pitch but is just being honest about his arm.  What if the alternative is 2016 Keuchel where he's actually still hurt but continues to take the ball and be a mediocre pitcher? 

[Lefty]

Man, you guys are like fucking piranhas.  It's entirely possible that he wants to pitch but is just being honest about his arm.  What if the alternative is 2016 Keuchel where he's actually still hurt but continues to take the ball and be a mediocre pitcher? 

I want this to be the case.

[HudsonHawk]

Man, you guys are like fucking piranhas.  It's entirely possible that he wants to pitch but is just being honest about his arm.  What if the alternative is 2016 Keuchel where he's actually still hurt but continues to take the ball and be a mediocre pitcher?

If he's hurt, he should be on the DL. No postseason for him and move on.

[Lefty]

If he's hurt, he should be on the DL. No postseason for him and move on.

Unless he's on the 60, I believe he'd be eligible for the playoffs.

[Jacksonian]

If he's hurt, he should be on the DL. No postseason for him and move on.

The DL serves little to no purpose now with the minors concluded.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

McCullers frustrates the hell out of me. His hair is perfect but his ability to handle adversity is non-existent.

[HudsonHawk]

Unless he's on the 60, I believe he'd be eligible for the playoffs.

It doesn't matter if he's eligible or not, if he's hurt, he's hurt.  He shouldn't pitch and shouldn't take up roster spot.

[HudsonHawk]

The DL serves little to no purpose now with the minors concluded.

Again, if he's hurt, he's hurt.  His season is done. 

[JimR]

Man, you guys are like fucking piranhas.  It's entirely possible that he wants to pitch but is just being honest about his arm.  What if the alternative is 2016 Keuchel where he's actually still hurt but continues to take the ball and be a mediocre pitcher?

Very unlikely but possible

[Bench]

Man, you guys are like fucking piranhas.  It's entirely possible that he wants to pitch but is just being honest about his arm.  What if the alternative is 2016 Keuchel where he's actually still hurt but continues to take the ball and be a mediocre pitcher? 

Very unlikely but possible

I agree that each statement can be read both ways but taking them all together I'm leaning toward's Jim's point of view. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Oops! Sorry, wrong McCullers' thread.