Trade Deadline 2017

[Navin R Johnson]

Has this been a slower than usual trade deadline?  Sure feels that way.

[NeilT]

Sad!

Frankly, I think this team is completely perfect, and that management will be throwing away the future if they trade for anyone. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Frankly, I think this team is completely perfect, and that management will be throwing away the future if they trade for anyone.

I don't have a crystal ball but I do know time will tell if the game will be won on the field or in the boardroom.

[hostros7]

I don't have a crystal ball but I do know time will tell if the game will be won on the field or in the boardroom.

If we're making incendiary, cliff-hanger generalizations about the how the events of today will shape our impressions about how the organization is run, I will offer the following: the game will be won in excel or proprietary software before it is ever played through Monte Carlo simulations, luddites!

 

[Bench]

According to a McTaggart McReTweet, the Tigers aren't dealing Verlander today.

[NeilT]

If we're making incendiary, cliff-hanger generalizations about the how the events of today will shape our impressions about how the organization is run, I will offer the following: the game will be won in excel or proprietary software before it is ever played through Monte Carlo simulations, luddites!

Good pitching beats good hitting.  It's why Altuve's hacking is so effective. 

[hostros7]

Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan  3m3 minutes ago
More
 It's getting increasingly harder to see Yu Darvish going to the Dodgers. Teams simply aren't matching up despite plenty of discussions.

[MusicMan]

Shit's getting weird, courtesy of Rosenthal:

Sources: #Astros talking to #BlueJays about Liriano. HOU also working on other things. Likely would use Liriano as reliever if deal happens.



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[hostros7]

Jonathan Mayo‏Verified account @JonathanMayo  2m2 minutes ago
More
 Hearing @Orioles def looking to move Britton. @Astros front-runners now? @Indians not likely @Astros Top 30: http://atmlb.com/2ud2puk

[BudGirl]

I'm driving back from SA. I very much appreciate all the updates. 

[Jacksonian]

Shit's getting weird, courtesy of Rosenthal:

Sources: #Astros talking to #BlueJays about Liriano. HOU also working on other things. Likely would use Liriano as reliever if deal happens.



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Can't imagine they'd give up much to get him.

[WVastro]

Shit's getting weird, courtesy of Rosenthal:

Sources: #Astros talking to #BlueJays about Liriano. HOU also working on other things. Likely would use Liriano as reliever if deal happens.



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I'm watching MLB Network and they said the deal is close...

[hostros7]

Is Stroman coming with him?


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[JimR]

I'm watching MLB Network and they said the deal is close...

I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.

[MusicMan]

I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.

I agree, and if true, I think we should applaud Crane for being willing to eat that money.

[BudGirl]

I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.

I hope so.


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[Nate Colbert]

Shit's getting weird, courtesy of Rosenthal:

Sources: #Astros talking to #BlueJays about Liriano. HOU also working on other things. Likely would use Liriano as reliever if deal happens.

.230 BAA vs lefties this year (in line with career numbers).

[WVastro]

I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.

Sipp was a great story there for awhile. He was crucial in '15. I wish him the best. (If he's gone)

[Reuben]

Can't imagine they'd give up much to get him.

Liriano for Laureano would be poetic.

[Jacksonian]

I don't think this means no Britton. We are going to DFA Sipp.

He's been no better than Sipp this year.

[Jacksonian]

.230 BAA vs lefties this year (in line with career numbers).

Sipp's this year is .217.

[MusicMan]

.230 BAA vs lefties this year (in line with career numbers).

.292/.387/.492 vs RHB.

One ping only, please.

[hostros7]

Britton's skill set is the best available, but the injuries make me nervous. We need a horse at the back of the pen who is capable of taking the ball in crucial situations several times in a potential playoff series (ITMI), and he's been handled like a porcelain miniature pony all season by the O's.


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[das]

I agree, and if true, I think we should applaud Crane for being willing to eat that money.

Good.  I had hoped he found his mojo but there just has been no indication of that in ST or at any point this year beyond a game or two blip of non-suckiness. 

[BudGirl]

Britton's skill set is the best available, but the injuries make me nervous. We need a horse at the back of the pen who is capable of taking the ball in crucial situations several times in a potential playoff series (ITMI), and he's been handled like a porcelain miniature pony all season by the O's.


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How's he been against those the Astros could face in the playoffs?


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[Nate Colbert]

Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 1m ago
One source describes #Astros’ pursuit of Britton as “serious.” Executive with one of clubs involved believes deal with HOU is close.

[Jacksonian]

Liriano deal is done.

[JimR]

Sipp's this year is .217.

Oh, great! Let's keep him!

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Liriano deal is done.

"An OF" is going to Toronto.

Can't imagine it's Fisher.  Probably one of Kemp/Laureano/Teoscar.

[BudGirl]

Oh, great! Let's keep him!

Too late. Need room for the new pitcher.


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[Jacksonian]

"An OF" is going to Toronto.

Can't imagine it's Fisher.  Probably one of Kemp/Laureano/Teoscar.

Could be Tucker the older.

[Andyzipp]

I guess I'm a baseball fan again if I'm willingly listening to Christopher Russo hoping to see trade news.

fml

[JimR]

Too late. Need room for the new pitcher.


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There are several candidates to vacate a spot.

Liriano is a rental. Teoscar?

[Andyzipp]

Hope the outfielder going to Canada isn't Aoki. 

(and not because I think he's untouchable)

[Nate Colbert]

It is Aoki plus a minor leaguer.

[hostros7]

Hope the outfielder going to Canada isn't Aoki. 

(and not because I think he's untouchable)

Tags tweets it's Nori and another MiLBer


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[MusicMan]

Hope the outfielder going to Canada isn't Aoki. 

(and not because I think he's untouchable)

Tags says it's Aoki and a minor leaguer.

[JimR]

It is Aoki plus a minor leaguer.

Shit.

[BudGirl]

Hope the outfielder going to Canada isn't Aoki. 

(and not because I think he's untouchable)

Wow it is.


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[Ebby Calvin]

It is Aoki plus a minor leaguer.

Dammit

[Andyzipp]

Shit.  Let's try this again...

I hope we don't get Grey and Britton today.

[Jacksonian]

I wonder what Aoki did to deserve this.

[Andyzipp]

Shit.

Disappointed, because I like guys that don't strike out. But I guess the team likes what it sees in Fisher.

[hostros7]

I'll miss aoki's approach and ABs at the bottom of the order.

Guess this means we won't see fisher moved as part of any big trade today.


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[Lefty]

.292/.387/.492 vs RHB.

One ping only, please.

His road numbers definitely leave something to be desired.

Sorry to see Aoki go

[JimR]

Bet y'all we could have had Wilson for Fisher, and we said no.

Fisher-Springer-Reddick plus Marisnik.

Dammit. Aoki helped this team a bunch.

[moriartp]

I wonder what Aoki did to deserve this.

Salary offset, I figure.

[JimR]

I wonder what Aoki did to deserve this.

This is a joke, right? Nothing. They like Fosher more for the stretch run.

I hate it.

[Jacksonian]

This is a joke, right? Nothing. They like Fosher more for the stretch run.

I hate it.

Of course it's a joke.  Still it stings to go from a WS contender to no post-season.

[Nate Colbert]

Salary offset, I figure.

A bit. $1.8MM left on Aoki's contract for remainder of year. Liriano with $4.5MM left this season.

[HudsonHawk]

I don't mind giving up Aoki, I just don't want Liriano.

[JimR]

Of course it's a joke.  Still it stings to go from a WS contender to no post-season.

One of the reasons I hate it.

[Navin R Johnson]

Guess we won't be dealing Fisher, looks like the rookie is gonna get a lot of ABs from now through the playoffs.

[geezerdonk]

43 walks in 82 innings, 5.88 era and 1.62 whip.
Into what theoretical playoff game scenario does Hinch insert Liriano and you say Advantage Astros?
Looks like a trade for the sake of making a trade.
Sad to see Aoki walk the plank. He fit in well and did his job well - a much better fielder and base runner than I expected.   

[WVastro]

Jumbo Diaz agrees to a minor league deal:

Astros, Jumbo Diaz Agree To Minors Deal
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/astros-jumbo-diaz-agree-to-minors-deal.html

[MRaup]

Jumbo Diaz agrees to a minor league deal:

Astros, Jumbo Diaz Agree To Minors Deal
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/astros-jumbo-diaz-agree-to-minors-deal.html

There's a big splash.

[Jose Cruz III]

I loved watching Aoki bat. Gonna miss him.

[moriartp]

Reports are Teoscar is also heading to Toronto in the deal. wtf?

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[Andyzipp]

Reports are Teoscar is also heading to Toronto in the deal. wtf?

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Can players on the DL actually be dealt now?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

In Luhnow I trust.

[BudGirl]

In Luhnow I trust.

+1


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[Nate Colbert]

Liriano vs Sipp. If you look at OPS rather than just BAA, a decided advantage to Liriano:

Career vs lefties:
Liriano .221/.295/.305     .600 OPS
Sipp .221/.300/.410         .710 OPS


2017:
Liriano .230/.254/.361     .615 OPS
Sipp .217/.288/.467         .755 OPS

[Nate Colbert]

Can players on the DL actually be dealt now?

He's not on the DL.

[MusicMan]

I know we have a surplus of OF, but that's a weird deal.

[roadrunner]

There must be some advanced metric about Liriano that Luhnow, co like.  Otherwise this is a strange deal.

Is Teo rule v eligible next year?  That would also make sense.

[toddthebod]

I assume this means that Springer is okay.  Because surely the Astros wouldn't trade an outfielder from their ML roster if they thought Springer was going to be gone for a while.

What bothers me is why we are trading a productive player to save less than $2 million.  It seems like a pretty cheap move -- unless, of course, the Astros think there are going to be some high priced players coming later.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I applaud Nori Aoki. I will miss him. He was a good Astro.

[Navin R Johnson]

Seems like they'd rather play FIsher than Aoki.   So when George comes back they were going to have to do something, this frees that sopt up.

[Nate Colbert]

There must be some advanced metric about Liriano that Luhnow, co like.  Otherwise this is a strange deal.

Is Teo rule v eligible next year?  That would also make sense.

He was on the 40-man roster and thus couldn't be claimed in the Rule 5.

[Jacksonian]

There must be some advanced metric about Liriano that Luhnow, co like.  Otherwise this is a strange deal.

Is Teo rule v eligible next year?  That would also make sense.

Not rule V.  He's on the 40-man roster.  He's got options, I believe.  At the end of the day there was no room for him on the big club short term and long term.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

What bothers me is why we are trading a productive player to save less than $2 million.  It seems like a pretty cheap move -- unless, of course, the Astros think there are going to be some high priced players coming later.

Not about the money. Luhnow believes this team is better with Lariano.

[AtascAstro]

I'm guessing that Luhnow is projecting that Liriano will be much better as a reliever than a starter.  As a reliever he can focus on his best pitches and only a few batters.  Comparing Sipp's stats as a reliever to Liriano's stats as a starter isn't exactly apples to apples in terms of their stuff.

[hostros7]

I assume this means that Springer is okay.  Because surely the Astros wouldn't trade an outfielder from their ML roster if they thought Springer was going to be gone for a while.

What bothers me is why we are trading a productive player to save less than $2 million.  It seems like a pretty cheap move -- unless, of course, the Astros think there are going to be some high priced players coming later.

If Fisher scuffles and is not consistently contributing productive ABs, Aoki is going to be sorely missed. Let's hope the kid is ready.

[BUWebguy]

Liriano vs Sipp. If you look at OPS rather than just BAA, a decided advantage to Liriano:

Career vs lefties:
Liriano .221/.295/.305     .600 OPS
Sipp .221/.300/.410         .710 OPS


2017:
Liriano .230/.254/.361     .615 OPS
Sipp .217/.288/.467         .755 OPS

And that's with Liriano starting. Perhaps (hopefully) his stuff will play up out of the pen.

[HudsonHawk]

Not about the money. Luhnow believes this team is better with Lariano.

Exactly. This has zero to do with saving money and everything to do with being desperate for another arm.

[hostros7]

LH hitters have 61 ABs against Liriano this season. He has struck out 17 of them and walked 1.

[MusicMan]

Any chance you ride with Peacock-Liriano-Devo each taking a turn through the order, in lieu of a regular SP, in the playoffs?


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[hostros7]

Any chance you ride with Peacock-Liriano-Devo each taking a turn through the order, in lieu of a regular SP, in the playoffs?


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You know they have considered it, but my guess is that McCullers, Fiers, Morton or whoever starts receives a lightning quick hook instead if the situation gets dicey.

[hostros7]

Of course Trump has to fuck up all our baseball twitter timelines with Mooch firing news and jokes an hour before the deadline. Is baseball not America's, the America you purport to be making great again, favorite pastime?

[JimR]

And that's with Liriano starting. Perhaps (hopefully) his stuff will play up out of the pen.

This is a point I wanted to make. A Starter may throw four pitches. He'll be fastball/slider out of the pen. They must think his hard stuff will be good out of the bullpen.

[juliogotay]

This is a point I wanted to make. A Starter may throw four pitches. He'll be fastball/slider out of the pen. They must think his hard stuff will be good out of the bullpen.

Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

[JimR]

I assume this means that Springer is okay.  Because surely the Astros wouldn't trade an outfielder from their ML roster if they thought Springer was going to be gone for a while.

What bothers me is why we are trading a productive player to save less than $2 million.  It seems like a pretty cheap move -- unless, of course, the Astros think there are going to be some high priced players coming later.

Not a money deal

[JimR]

Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

Every report I read says so.

[Bench]

Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

It seems generally accepted by all of punditry, so who knows.

[Jacksonian]

Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

The teams have not yet announced the deal.  They won't say anything until after that.

[Jacksonian]

McTag says Feliz is back up.

[MusicMan]

Yankees got Gray. Dammit.


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[Navin R Johnson]

Gray to the Yankees.   FUCK

[Navin R Johnson]

 Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan

Source: Gray to Yankees done. Fowler, Mateo, Kaprelian coming back.

[JimR]

Gray to NYY. Fuck

[Nate Colbert]

Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan

Source: Gray to Yankees done. Fowler, Mateo, Kaprelian coming back.

4th, 8th and 12th ranked Yankees prospects

[JimR]

Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan

Source: Gray to Yankees done. Fowler, Mateo, Kaprelian coming back.

Nate, convert these players to ours, please.

[das]

McTag says Feliz is back up.

This does not give me a warm fuzzy about getting a top-flight reliever in the next 54 minutes...

[Nate Colbert]

Nate, convert these players to ours, please.

Fisher, Paulino and Jake Rogers.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Jeff Passan‏Verified account @JeffPassan

Source: Gray to Yankees done. Fowler, Mateo, Kaprelian coming back.

Fowler is their 4th ranked prospect. Mateo 8th, Kaprelian 12th.

[austro]

Have they made it clear he is working from the pen?

If nothing else, he's stretched out and ready for innings, which is a valuable trait for an Astros reliever right now.

[JimR]

This does not give me a warm fuzzy about getting a top-flight reliever in the next 54 minutes...

Musgrove and Guduan are still there. We have room.

[Nate Colbert]

Musgrove and Guduan are still there. We have room.

And Sipp.

[Jacksonian]

Fisher, Paulino and Jake Rogers.

You're being kind to Paulino in that comparison.

[JimR]

Fisher, Paulino and Jake Rogers.

Fisher became untradable apparently

[JimR]

And Sipp.

Right. I already DFAed him

[Andyzipp]

Gray to NYY. Fuck

Dammit.

[Nate Colbert]

You're being kind to Paulino in that comparison.

He was the 54th ranked prospect in all of baseball as recently as January.

Kaprielian, BTW, is rehabbing from TJS.

[WVastro]

Joe Smith to the Indians. That bullpen will shut down anybody.

[juliogotay]

Fisher, Paulino and Jake Rogers.

I would have punched that ticket for Gray.

[hostros7]

He was the 54th ranked prospect in all of baseball as recently as January.

Kaprelian, BTW, is rehabbing from TJS.

If you had told me the Astros could have acquired Gray through 2019 and not parted with Martes, Whitley, or Tucker, I would have assumed they pulled the trigger. We obviously don't know if that's the case though or if the Astros were really all that high on Sonny Gray.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Really hoping for Britton now. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Maybe some GMs don't want to trade with ours?

[JimR]

Really hoping for Britton now.

Wonder if we are trying for Darvish also?

[MusicMan]

Just switched to MLB Radio and they are crucifying Luhnow.


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[Andyzipp]

Wonder if we are trying for Darvish also?

I hope we're trying for someone beyond Liriano.

[Jacksonian]

Just switched to MLB Radio and they are crucifying Luhnow.


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Because...?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

#Astros have shown interest in #Angels reliever (and ex-Astro) Bud Norris. @MLB

PLEASE trade Singleton for him.

[MusicMan]

Because...?

Lack of big move


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[Andyzipp]

Heyman thinks Hand is going to be dealt today.  And that the Padres are reasonable in their requests.

[Jacksonian]

Lack of big move


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Before the deadline?  Brilliant.

[juliogotay]

Heyman just now on MLBTV says Astros trying for Hand. Heyman says he thinks Padres being realistic with Hand and not expecting the elite prospects in return.

[Nate Colbert]

Tony Watson to Dodgers.

[JimR]

Have the Os said they are keeping Britton? There was some doubt they would trade him.

[Jacksonian]

Tony Watson to Dodgers.

Hand has been better but I'm curious what the Dodgers gave up.

[Andyzipp]

Dodgers pick up Watson.  Does that mean they're out on Britton?

[JimR]

Tony Watson to Dodgers.

A once rumored target. I had forgotten him.

[BudGirl]

Because...?

Probably because he didn't sell the farm.  ESPN thinks the Astros just need a reliver.


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[BudGirl]

Have the Os said they are keeping Britton? There was some doubt they would trade him.

The radio guys said Angelos wanted a big haul or no deal. I wouldn't give up Whitley or Tucker for him.


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[austro]

The idea is forming in my mind that this team surprised Luhnow and arrived a year earlier than he expected, and before he could get the bullpen where he wanted it. And he's unwilling to derail the rest of his plan by trading away his prospects for the sake of this year's bullpen, and he'll remake it during the winter. Maybe I'm just rationalizing.

[juliogotay]

Is the deadline 3 pm our time?

[austro]

Is the deadline 3 pm our time?

Yes.

[David in Jackson]

This year's Oliver Perez?

[Nate Colbert]

Jeff Passan  @JeffPassan 5m ago
Multiple GMs right now believe Yu Darvish and Zach Britton will stay put. Deadline is 18 minutes away.

[juliogotay]

The idea is forming in my mind that this team surprised Luhnow and arrived a year earlier than he expected, and before he could get the bullpen where he wanted it. And he's unwilling to derail the rest of his plan by trading away his prospects for the sake of this year's bullpen, and he'll remake it during the winter. Maybe I'm just rationalizing.

But there isn't room for many prospects next year. Tucker should be ready mid-year but where is there a MiLer better than what is here? A couple of spots on pitching staff obviously.

[WVastro]

Any word on Lance Lynn?

[JimR]

The idea is forming in my mind that this team surprised Luhnow and arrived a year earlier than he expected, and before he could get the bullpen where he wanted it. And he's unwilling to derail the rest of his plan by trading away his prospects for the sake of this year's bullpen, and he'll remake it during the winter. Maybe I'm just rationalizing.

I think you are.

Peacock, healthy Harris, Gregerson, Devo, Martes, Giles is a solid pen. He is trying to add LHP to that.

I agree with BG reBritton.

[austro]

Peacock, healthy Harris, Gregerson, Devo, Martes, Giles is a solid pen. He is trying to add LHP to that.

I'm really worried about the "healthy Harris" part of that recipe.

[Navin R Johnson]

And nothing, how uninspiring.

[MusicMan]

It's 3:00. Commence rioting.


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[Ebby Calvin]

Shit

[JimR]

I'm really worried about the "healthy Harris" part of that recipe.

Two months to go. G
He says it is better

So Baltimore and SD decided not to trade their relievers? WTF?

[Andyzipp]

That was disappointing.  Much like the Astros since the All-Star break.

[Jose Cruz III]

Cingrani?

[WVastro]

Cingrani to the Dodgers.

[juliogotay]

Cingrani to the Dodgers.

I guess they couldn't satisfy on Brittan.

[JimR]

That was disappointing.  Much like the Astros since the All-Star break.

Much of this is injuries.

[austro]

Cingrani to the Dodgers.

Rice boy goes from the outhouse to the penthouse.

[Navin R Johnson]

I can't believe they didn't add a single impact guy.   

[Andyzipp]

Much of this is injuries.

I know, but when your pitching and offense are struggling at the exact same time, it makes for some ugly baseball.

I'm also impatient.

[Andyzipp]

Kintzler to the Nats.

[JimR]

Will Luhnow talk to the press? I wish we had an insider. I thought we'd get Hand at the last minute, and yesterday I thought we'd trade Fisher for Wilson.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm not surprised. I just hope everyone is healthy come August.

[Nate Colbert]

Darvish has been traded says Rosenthal.

[JimR]

I can't believe they didn't add a single impact guy.

There were not that many out there. I would love to know what went on. I know about his contract, but Verlander would have been ok with me.

[JimR]

Darvish has been traded says Rosenthal.

Drum roll, please

[Nate Colbert]

Darvish has been traded says Rosenthal.

Dodgers.

[Waldo]

Darvish has been traded says Rosenthal.

Ken Rosenthal‏Verified account @Ken_Rosenthal  30s31 seconds ago
More
 Source: Darvish to #Dodgers

[NeilT]

Doesn't the deadline run over for a bit?  They have to have the trade agreed to by the deadline, but they don't have to announce it. 

[austro]

I'm not surprised. I just hope everyone is healthy come August.

September is more likely. I hope that Correa doesn't think he has to be superman and rush his recovery. A setback would be much worse than going a little slowly and only having to do it once.

[MusicMan]

Fuck me. Darvish to LAD.


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[MusicMan]

Doesn't the deadline run over for a bit?  They have to have the trade agreed to by the deadline, but they don't have to announce it.

Right. Cosart deal was announced after deadline.


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[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I'm getting K***n B***n flashbacks w/ Darvish in LA.

[Waldo]

In Luhnow we trust and all, but seeing LA and NYY make huge moves with the Astros relatively standing pat is a buzzkill.

[JimR]

Fuck me. Darvish to LAD.


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Wowser

[Navin R Johnson]

There were not that many out there. I would love to know what went on. I know about his contract, but Verlander would have been ok with me.

Britton, Wilson or Hand are guys I was hoping for.   But without knowing what the other teams were asking for, its hard to criticize JL  not making a move.

[NeilT]

Fuck me. Darvish to LAD.


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That sucks, but the Stros can hit Darvish.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

September is more likely. I hope that Correa doesn't think he has to be superman and rush his recovery. A setback would be much worse than going a little slowly and only having to do it once.

Yeah, September. That's what I meant.

[JimR]

In Luhnow we trust and all, but seeing LA and NYY make huge moves with the Astros relatively standing pat is a buzzkill.

and FTC

[hostros7]

That sucks, but the Stros can hit Darvish.

Facing him again this season also means that the team has made it to the World F'in Series, which would be nice.

[MusicMan]

I'm getting K***n B***n flashbacks w/ Darvish in LA.

Your whore mouth. Shut it.


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[JimR]

Britton, Wilson or Hand are guys I was hoping for.   But without knowing what the other teams were asking for, its hard to criticize JL  not making a move.

Agreed

[MusicMan]

Oh, and LMJ back to DL. Reed up for Nori.


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[Nate Colbert]

Hand has been better but I'm curious what the Dodgers gave up.

Bill Brink  @BrinkPG 1m ago
Pirates get minor league IF Oneil Cruz and minor league RHP Angel German from Dodgers for Watson.

Cruz 21st ranked Dodgers prospect and German a lower level reliever who was not ranked.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I just hope there weren't any GMs that didn't want to deal with Astros. I only mention it because one of the experts on MLB Network implied that it was that way with some GMs.

[Nate Colbert]

I just hope there weren't any GMs that didn't want to deal with Astros. I only mention it because one of the experts on MLB Network implied that it was that way with some GMs.

Recall which expert?

[BlownRanger]

Britton, Wilson or Hand are guys I was hoping for.   But without knowing what the other teams were asking for, its hard to criticize JL  not making a move.

It's wrong to assume that Heyman and his "sources" are infallible, but he reported that SD actually was not expecting any top-100 prospects for Hand.

Apparently, Liriano faced 61 left-handed batters this year, and walked only one and had only four hard-hit balls.

[toddthebod]

I think that Luhnow shit the bed today. 

Yes, the Astros have a good team.  But this team is not the same team that dominated in the beginning of the season.

The bullpen is gassed.  Harris is injured.  Devenski has become hitable.  Gregerson has not been good.

Does anyone know what Keuchel is going to give us?  Or McCullers who is now on the DL.

Are the Astros ever going to get 7 strong innings from a starter?  If not, the bullpen is only going to suffer more.

The Astros are also not the same offensive juggernaut.  Correa is out for who knows how long.  Springer?

So yeah.  The team needed help.  And Luhnow did nothing.

But good news, Michael Feliz is back.  And AJ Reed too. 

Today was a disaster.  Like Zipp, I am impatient. 

[jbm]

I just hope there weren't any GMs that didn't want to deal with Astros. I only mention it because one of the experts on MLB Network implied that it was that way with some GMs.

Was there a reason given or at least alluded to?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Recall which expert?

No, I was in an other room, listening to the TV. No GM names were mentioned. Might have been Rosenthal.

[MusicMan]

Liriano is not nothing. We needed a LHRP. We got one - just not the one most expected.


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[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I wonder if Verlander could come over in a post-deadline waiver deal.

[MusicMan]

I wonder if Verlander could come over in a post-deadline waiver deal.

Have to think someone would claim him.


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[hostros7]

I wonder if Verlander could come over in a post-deadline waiver deal.

Cueto could be an option in this type of scenario, but the option question will still linger.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Was there a reason given or at least alluded to?

Nothing specific. i probably read too much into  it,

[juliogotay]

I think that Luhnow shit the bed today. 

Yes, the Astros have a good team.  But this team is not the same team that dominated in the beginning of the season.

The bullpen is gassed.  Harris is injured.  Devenski has become hitable.  Gregerson has not been good.

Does anyone know what Keuchel is going to give us?  Or McCullers who is now on the DL.

Are the Astros ever going to get 7 strong innings from a starter?  If not, the bullpen is only going to suffer more.

The Astros are also not the same offensive juggernaut.  Correa is out for who knows how long.  Springer?

So yeah.  The team needed help.  And Luhnow did nothing.

But good news, Michael Feliz is back.  And AJ Reed too. 

Today was a disaster.  Like Zipp, I am impatient.

Pitchers the club would have acquired in a trade are also tired.

[juliogotay]

I just hope there weren't any GMs that didn't want to deal with Astros. I only mention it because one of the experts on MLB Network implied that it was that way with some GMs.

I wouldn't look for a Hou-StL deal anytime soon.

[juliogotay]

Was there a reason given or at least alluded to?

He's smarter than them.

[chuck]

Luhnow is not well liked around the league but I can't imagine he is alone in that regard as a GM, and I would be very, very surprised to learn that other GMs are for whatever reason unwilling or even particularly reluctant to deal with him.

There are other factors of course but I'd be curious to know how Luhnow's apparent confidence in the team as it stands weighs against his confidence in the future of the prospects that he declined to deal. Does that make sense? How much of his relative inactivity was because he has faith in the team he has and how much of it was the value he places on the prospects he decided to keep is what I'm wondering. Also, it seems like the sort of thing he would speak to at some point.

[JimR]

I think that Luhnow shit the bed today. 

Yes, the Astros have a good team.  But this team is not the same team that dominated in the beginning of the season.

The bullpen is gassed.  Harris is injured.  Devenski has become hitable.  Gregerson has not been good.

Does anyone know what Keuchel is going to give us?  Or McCullers who is now on the DL.

Are the Astros ever going to get 7 strong innings from a starter?  If not, the bullpen is only going to suffer more.

The Astros are also not the same offensive juggernaut.  Correa is out for who knows how long.  Springer?

So yeah.  The team needed help.  And Luhnow did nothing.

But good news, Michael Feliz is back.  And AJ Reed too. 

Today was a disaster.  Like Zipp, I am impatient.

This gloom and doom shit should be deleted. Buy a team and show me how it is done. You have ZERO knowledge of the negotiations. There are two full months to go.

This is Ray Kerby stuff you posted.

[BlownRanger]

Luhnow is not well liked around the league but I can't imagine he is alone in that regard as a GM, and I would be very, very surprised to learn that other GMs are for whatever reason unwilling or even particularly reluctant to deal with him.

There are other factors of course but I'd be curious to know how Luhnow's apparent confidence in the team as it stands weighs against his confidence in the future of the prospects that he declined to deal. Does that make sense? How much of his relative inactivity was because he has faith in the team he has and how much of it was the value he places on the prospects he decided to keep is what I'm wondering. Also, it seems like the sort of thing he would speak to at some point.

I'm sort of expecting Luhnow to spend at least a half-inning with Todd and Geoff tonight.

[JimR]

Luhnow is not well liked around the league but I can't imagine he is alone in that regard as a GM, and I would be very, very surprised to learn that other GMs are for whatever reason unwilling or even particularly reluctant to deal with him.

There are other factors of course but I'd be curious to know how Luhnow's apparent confidence in the team as it stands weighs against his confidence in the future of the prospects that he declined to deal. Does that make sense? How much of his relative inactivity was because he has faith in the team he has and how much of it was the value he places on the prospects he decided to keep is what I'm wondering. Also, it seems like the sort of thing he would speak to at some point.

This, especially paragraph 2.

[juliogotay]

Luhnow is not well liked around the league but I can't imagine he is alone in that regard as a GM, and I would be very, very surprised to learn that other GMs are for whatever reason unwilling or even particularly reluctant to deal with him.

There are other factors of course but I'd be curious to know how Luhnow's apparent confidence in the team as it stands weighs against his confidence in the future of the prospects that he declined to deal. Does that make sense? How much of his relative inactivity was because he has faith in the team he has and how much of it was the value he places on the prospects he decided to keep is what I'm wondering. Also, it seems like the sort of thing he would speak to at some point.

I can't see any positional prospect making the club next year other than Tucker who will be ready mid-season I would think. Alvarez possibly but I see him as a DH. Maybe Moran as a utility guy.  Some guys are going to be ready with no where to move up to. The idea of Luhnow hoarding prospects just doesn't make sense to me. They probably all wanted Tucker and Whitely.

[BudGirl]

I can't see any positional prospect making the club next year other than Tucker who will be ready mid-season I would think. Alvarez possibly but I see him as a DH. Maybe Moran as a utility guy.  Some guys are going to be ready with no where to move up to. The idea of Luhnow hoarding prospects just doesn't make sense to me. They probably all wanted Tucker and Whitely.

I don't blame them for wanting Tucker and Whitley, and I don't blame Luhnow for not giving them up.  I also wanted a deal, but if other GMs weren't willing to come off of them, there is little Luhnow could have done.

[Mr. Happy]

Standing pat, except for Liriano? I'm alright with that. In Luhnow I trust.

[hostros7]

I don't blame them for wanting Tucker and Whitley, and I don't blame Luhnow for not giving them up.  I also wanted a deal, but if other GMs weren't willing to come off of them, there is little Luhnow could have done.

During his podcast with Jonah Keri, Jonah asked Luhnow about a personal mantra or life advice to wrap things up. Luhnow said that he and his family like the motto "trust the math." He elaborated that more or less what that meant to him was that everyone should be aware of all the facts and information available and put that in context to make good decisions. He acknowledged that no one can control the outcomes but that he did have the agency to place the bets and that he wanted to make the best bets possible given all the data, information, history, and context. As you more or less said, Luhnow likely had a variety of scenarios mapped out and had determined what he was and was not willing to trade, and he remained disciplined and didn't stretch, which seems consistent with "trusting the math."

[JimR]

I would like to know what Oakland wanted for Gray. I did not want Darvish, no matter how good he is.

[BudGirl]

I would like to know what Oakland wanted for Gray. I did not want Darvish, no matter how good he is.

I didn't want Darvish either.  I also don't think he is good this year.  I'm interested in what have you done lately.

[MikeyBoy]

Here is a little info from Luhnow...
https://twitter.com/ChronBrianSmith/status/892127276967501824

[jaklewein]

I worried more about over paying than I did standing pat.   Gray and Britten both especially worried me bc I knew we'd likely have to over pay to get one of them....which normally would've been fine, but then the past injury issues with each scared me to death.

Give me a healthy lineup that includes Correa, and a healthy Keuchel that can shutdown the opposition over 7+ IP, and I'll take my chances.

[jbm]

I think there's a widely held belief that a GM of a club (with the Astros record) needs to construct a club for the playoffs.   I wonder if Luhnow buys that goal, at least enough to give up top guys. Maybe he views the playoffs as the press portrayed Beane: somewhat random in its outcome.

In other words, maybe he views giving up a lot to contend for the playoffs as more appropriate than giving up a lot to contend within the playoffs. 

[JimR]

I think there's a widely held belief that a GM of a club (with the Astros record) needs to construct a club for the playoffs.   I wonder if Luhnow buys that goal, at least enough to give up top guys. Maybe he views the playoffs as the press portrayed Beane: somewhat random in its outcome.

In other words, maybe he views giving up a lot to contend for the playoffs as more appropriate than giving up a lot to contend within the playoffs.

He had said for a month or more his deadline strategy was aimed at the playoffs.

[jbm]

He had said for a month or more his deadline strategy was aimed at the playoffs.

Fair enough, I have not followed that closely. He sure didn't act like that though.

[das]

Luhnow will look like a genius when the Astros win the WS this year.  That's all.

[Jacksonian]

I think that Luhnow shit the bed today. 

Yes, the Astros have a good team.  But this team is not the same team that dominated in the beginning of the season.

The bullpen is gassed.  Harris is injured.  Devenski has become hitable.  Gregerson has not been good.

Does anyone know what Keuchel is going to give us?  Or McCullers who is now on the DL.

Are the Astros ever going to get 7 strong innings from a starter?  If not, the bullpen is only going to suffer more.

The Astros are also not the same offensive juggernaut.  Correa is out for who knows how long.  Springer?

So yeah.  The team needed help.  And Luhnow did nothing.

But good news, Michael Feliz is back.  And AJ Reed too. 

Today was a disaster.  Like Zipp, I am impatient.

16-9 and 22-7

[MusicMan]

Bottom line: the GM who put together the team with a 10.5 game lead on the rest of the league doesn't know what he's doing. 

Do I have that right?


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[JimR]

Fair enough, I have not followed that closely. He sure didn't act like that though.

How the hell do you know what he tried to do?

[Mr. Happy]

Bottom line: the GM who put together the team with a 10.5 game lead on the rest of the league doesn't know what he's doing. 

Do I have that right?


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This. In spades.

[Jacksonian]

I can't see any positional prospect making the club next year other than Tucker who will be ready mid-season I would think. Alvarez possibly but I see him as a DH. Maybe Moran as a utility guy.  Some guys are going to be ready with no where to move up to. The idea of Luhnow hoarding prospects just doesn't make sense to me. They probably all wanted Tucker and Whitely.

If Luhnow is worried about too many guys to put on the 40-man he can always make deals in the off-season.

[Jacksonian]

Bottom line: the GM who put together the team with a 10.5 game lead on the rest of the league doesn't know what he's doing. 

Do I have that right?


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Luhnow saw what we all saw.  When his team is healthy they are nearly unstoppable.  He has to expect all his injured players will be healthy for the post-season.

[JimR]

This "Luhnow did nothing" stuff pisses me off. Not one of us knows what he tried to do or why it did not get done.

[BUWebguy]

Bottom line: the GM who put together the team with a 10.5 game lead on the rest of the league doesn't know what he's doing. 

Do I have that right?

My worry is that putting together a team to win a 162-game season is very different from putting together a team to win a 7-game playoff series. The Astros had a rare opportunity to remake their team in July with an eye toward the latter, without having to worry much about the former for the rest of 2017 (thanks to the gigantic division lead). I wish they had been able to take advantage of that advantage.

But, there's a reason I'm not the guy in charge. I'll trust in Luhnow, in part because I don't have much other choice. And hopefully the Astros will win it all and we won't remember any of this. Today, however, it's frustrating not to see the team improve itself for this year.

[Mr. Happy]

This "Luhnow did nothing" stuff pisses me off. Not one of us knows what he tried to do or why it did not get done.

Bingo.

[jbm]

How the hell do you know what he tried to do?

The results speak for themselves. At any rate, not sure why my statement is viewed as criticism. I have faith in him and don't have a beef with today's results; it seems pretty obvious though that he wasn't hell bent on adding pieces for the playoffs.

[roadrunner]

Britton was the only piece I cared about and he didn't get traded.  I'd rather not make a move than make a bad move.

[JimR]

My worry is that putting together a team to win a 162-game season is very different from putting together a team to win a 7-game playoff series. The Astros had a rare opportunity to remake their team in July with an eye toward the latter, without having to worry much about the former for the rest of 2017 (thanks to the gigantic division lead). I wish they had been able to take advantage of that advantage.

But, there's a reason I'm not the guy in charge. I'll trust in Luhnow, in part because I don't have much other choice. And hopefully the Astros will win it all and we won't remember any of this. Today, however, it's frustrating not to see the team improve itself for this year.

Why on earth would you remake this team? It needs one or two pieces unless the stars are done for the year. If they are, we are fucked anyway. I would have liked to get Gray and Wilson, and I would like even more to know what those teams wanted. Verlander would have been nice too.

The Dodgers should make the WS easily. Let's see if they do.

[Bench]

Julia with some Luhnow quotes:  "I'd be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed in not getting some of the moves done that we were working on...I do believe this team has what it takes to win in the postseason with the players we have...doesn't mean we didn't try hard to improve those chances even just a little bit"

And he obviously expects Fisher to spend the rest of his career in the major leagues.

[JimR]

The results speak for themselves. At any rate, not sure why my statement is viewed as criticism. I have faith in him and don't have a beef with today's results; it seems pretty obvious though that he wasn't hell bent on adding pieces for the playoffs.

What would you have done?

[jbm]

What would you have done?

Actually, I'm rarely a believer in trading the future for marginal upgrades, so I have no beef with what was done or wasn't done. So, I guess I would have stood pretty much pat, like Luhnow did.

[JimR]

Actually, I'm rarely a believer in trading the future for marginal upgrades, so I have no beef with what was done or wasn't done. So, I guess I would have stood pretty much pat, like Luhnow did.

I do not think he stood pat. He tried to make multiple deals, but the teams could not agree on players. That is not standing pat.

[doyce7]

Why on earth would you remake this team? It needs one or two pieces unless the stars are done for the year. If they are, we are fucked anyway. I would have liked to get Gray and Wilson, and I would like even more to know what those teams wanted. Verlander would have been nice too.

The Dodgers should make the WS easily. Let's see if they do.

I wanted Gray as well. Especially given what the Yankees gave up for him. I would have gladly given up that package, think that was a missed opportunity.

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[JimR]

I wanted Gray as well. Especially given what the Yankees gave up for him. I would have gladly given up that package, think that was a missed opportunity.

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Again, how do you know what Oakland asked Luhnow for?

[doyce7]

Again, how do you know what Oakland asked Luhnow for?

I don't. But, I know the Astros have a comparable package and if that package doesn't include Tucker, martes, or whitely then I feel a deal should have been made. Maybe they refused to deal without one of those or Fisher. I don't think the Yankee players are as good as any of those 4 though.

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[JimR]

I don't. But, I know the Astros have a comparable package and if that package doesn't include Tucker, martes, or whitely then I feel a deal should have been made. Maybe they refused to deal without one of those or Fisher. I don't think the Yankee players are as good as any of those 4 though.

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You cannot say a deal "should have been made" without knowing the negotiations. This is Internet bs, not TZ.

[doyce7]

You cannot say a deal "should have been made" without knowing the negotiations. This is Internet bs, not TZ.

Ok, should maybe isn't the right word, could have been made would be better.

The Yankees gave up very little if you ask me and I'm disappointed that a deal could not have been reached.

I trust luhnow and I have no doubt he tried to make something happen. But, this is a results based business. Every player tries to hit .300, some hit .200 and get cut. It's not what you try to do, it's what you do that matters.

This team was not made better today and that's on luhnow.

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[juliogotay]

If Luhnow is worried about too many guys to put on the 40-man he can always make deals in the off-season.

I would think the off-season is a better dealing environment.

[juliogotay]

I'm sort of expecting Luhnow to spend at least a half-inning with Todd and Geoff tonight.

or Julia in the pre-game show. Better tune-in at 6.30.

[Ty in Tampa]

But, this is a results based business.

Why, then, are you not waiting on the results?

[Bench]

This team was not made better today and that's on luhnow.

They needed a left handed reliever and he got a decent one.  That's improvement.

[BudGirl]

They needed a left handed reliever and he got a decent one.  That's improvement.

One that may be able to get out right handed batters too.

[Mr. Happy]

Ok, should maybe isn't the right word, could have been made would be better.

The Yankees gave up very little if you ask me and I'm disappointed that a deal could not have been reached.

I trust luhnow and I have no doubt he tried to make something happen. But, this is a results based business. Every player tries to hit .300, some hit .200 and get cut. It's not what you try to do, it's what you do that matters.

This team was not made better today and that's on luhnow.

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What result interests you? Winning the trading deadline? If so, that's pathetic. I want to win the WS. That's the result I want.

[Colt 45]

This "Luhnow did nothing" stuff pisses me off. Not one of us knows what he tried to do or why it did not get done.

You're always pissed off you grouchy 71 year old fuck!
I don't give a rats ass if you a triple pope and I am a rookie!
I am 61 and I thought I was a horses ass like my wife says, but you have me beat !

That's right I said it ..........you got a problem with that...... JIMBO!

[doyce7]

What result interests you? Winning the trading deadline? If so, that's pathetic. I want to win the WS. That's the result I want.

I would love to be wrong, but I don't think this pitching staff will win a world series.

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[Ty in Tampa]

I would love to be wrong, but I don't think this pitching staff will win a world series.

It must suck to feel like you've already lost before the game is even over.

[doyce7]

It must suck to feel like you've already lost before the game is even over.

Can and will are two different things. There are 6 or 8 teams that CAN win the world series. I would have liked to increase the chances by adding solid pitching to a good but not great pitching staff.

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[Jacksonian]

Ok, should maybe isn't the right word, could have been made would be better.

The Yankees gave up very little if you ask me and I'm disappointed that a deal could not have been reached.

I trust luhnow and I have no doubt he tried to make something happen. But, this is a results based business. Every player tries to hit .300, some hit .200 and get cut. It's not what you try to do, it's what you do that matters.

This team was not made better today and that's on luhnow.

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Personally, as an intradivision rival I would have made the Astros pay more for Gray than the Yankees if the deal from the Yankees was good enough for me.

[doyce7]

I'm not saying the Astros lost the world series today. I'm not that much of a dumbass. However over the last month or so I've read on this site, many people say "go for it, whatever it takes" "add pitching, must add pitching"


Then now, after the deadline, it's "were good"

Ok. I'm just saying what I've been saying all along. I feel we need more pitching.

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[MusicMan]

For those that believe the Astros could have easily topped the Yankees offer, rival evaluators have described Beane has "fixated" on Mateo.


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[doyce7]

For those that believe the Astros could have easily topped the Yankees offer, rival evaluators have described Beane has "fixated" on Mateo.


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Ok, if true, then fair enough.

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[MusicMan]

In the middle of an interview with Beltran about whether the team needed to add more, Gregerson yelled "WE HAVE A 16 GAME LEAD!!!" and suddenly I like him a little more.


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[Ty in Tampa]

I'm not saying the Astros lost the world series today. I'm not that much of a dumbass. However over the last month or so I've read on this site, many people say "go for it, whatever it takes" "add pitching, must add pitching"


Then now, after the deadline, it's "were good"

Ok. I'm just saying what I've been saying all along. I feel we need more pitching.

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Well, they did add pitching.

I think most everyone would have liked to see the team do more. But the point is, we have no idea what was tried and what was offered. To judge the FO negatively based on what didn't occur is unfair and a bit of an overreaction.

[austro]

What does the potential free-agent pitching market look like this winter?

[AstroNut]

I will miss the Jap slap....

[Jose Cruz III]

I may be wrong, and will take my Pope beatdown if so, but it seems like these teams ask Lunhow for the enitre top 10 of our farm system in trades, and then take far less from the other teams when he says no. Don't know if it's the art of negotiation or we think our prospects are better than other teams think they are, but it seems that teams shoot for the moon with Lunhow and then turn around and give up their players for far less.

That being said, I'm glad he kept Martes and Whitley. But Paulino's suspension might be a reason we couldn't match up in trades today.

[BUWebguy]

Why on earth would you remake this team? It needs one or two pieces unless the stars are done for the year. If they are, we are fucked anyway. I would have liked to get Gray and Wilson, and I would like even more to know what those teams wanted. Verlander would have been nice too.

The Dodgers should make the WS easily. Let's see if they do.

"Remake" was perhaps a poor choice of words. By it, I meant tweak a team from a great offense with some currently shaky pitching into a great offense with -- as we both hoped -- a dual-ace starting rotation (adding another top starter to go alongside Keuchel) and perhaps an even better bullpen. I had my hopes up, and they were not fulfilled, so I am disappointed. That doesn't mean Luhnow failed, or sucks, or anything -- just means one guy on the Internet (me) is in a grumpy mood this afternoon/evening.

[austro]

That being said, I'm glad he kept Martes and Whitley. But Paulino's suspension might be a reason we couldn't match up in trades today.

I will not be surprised to see Paulino traded this winter. I don't think this front office takes kindly to PED issues.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

... unless the stars are done for the year. If they are, we are fucked anyway.

This is so true. Hopefully they will return healthy.

[Andyzipp]

I will miss the Jap slap....

Go fuck yourself.

[JimR]

Fuck no, it is not on Luhnow. If you believe the reports, he traded for Britton. The Baltimore GM agreed, and Angelos vetoed the trade. What should Luhnow have done? fucking internet experts.

[MusicMan]

I will miss the Jap slap....

It's time for you to go away. For good.


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[JimR]

You're always pissed off you grouchy 71 year old fuck!
I don't give a rats ass if you a triple pope and I am a rookie!
I am 61 and I thought I was a horses ass like my wife says, but you have me beat !

That's right I said it ..........you got a problem with that...... JIMBO!

Fuck off. Do I have a problem with you? Nope, you have been here about two weeks and are a fucking idiot. You contribute nothing.

So, go fuck yourself.

[WVastro]

I will miss the Jap slap....

WTF?!

[JimR]

I'm not saying the Astros lost the world series today. I'm not that much of a dumbass. However over the last month or so I've read on this site, many people say "go for it, whatever it takes" "add pitching, must add pitching"


Then now, after the deadline, it's "were good"

Ok. I'm just saying what I've been saying all along. I feel we need more pitching.

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Angelos vetoed the deal. STFU,

[JimR]

I will miss the Jap slap....

Fuck off, and go away.

Slack, please nuke this asshole.

[drew corleone]

My thoughts, for whatever they're worth:
- other teams improved themselves more than Houston did.
- other teams (especially in the AL) NEEDED to do more than Houston did
- none of us know how close Houston was to getting a guy like Briton (close, if you believe certain reports)
- it's unfair to say Luhnow did "nothing"
- the huge lead is not an issue to tout, iMO, beyond the fact that it gets you to October; the goal is still to win in the playoffs
- nothing about that means that the Astros cannot still win in the playoffs
- if either DK or LMJ are not healthy come October it may not matter anyway

There's too much extreme "hot take" crap out there, IMO. The season didn't end today and nothing is guaranteed because the team is pacing toward 100 wins.

So with all of that said... Let's go win the whole fucking thing.

[WVastro]

So luckily I had a very long drive to do today that I put off until right after the trade deadline. Initially, I thought it'd be a great time to make the drive seem short by listening to the trade analaysis on all the crazy deals JL pulled off. It didn't work out that way.

However, I'm glad I planned it that way as I likely would have posted something "emotional"... which I think is understandable. Most everyone here would agree this is a special season, it's hard not to get emotionable about it. So instead I put on some great music, thought about it some, then didn't, then thought about it some more. At first it was the Aoki trade that was really bugging me, I really liked what he brought to the team, but there's this one JL quote that kept coming back to me throughout the drive, "trust the math".

Then it was coming to terms with the fact Liriano is the only incoming help this pitching staff has. Again though... "trust the math". Ok...

Another issue I kept running through my thick 'noggin was my initial reaction to some of the prospects it seemingly took to get players I thought would be useful on the Astros. Surely we could have offered better... right? The more I thought about it the more I kept coming back to the same conclusion. Luhnow is doing exactly what he did to get this team to where it is now. Trusting the math.

JL has had a big part in creating a team that is unarguably very good this year and will be very good for at least a couple more years. He's done it in large part by sticking to this philosophy. He sees something in Fisher that made him comfortable trading Aoki. As fun as he was to watch I'll trust the math here.

JL obviously went waaay beyond Liriano's stats against lefties as a starter. He likely has data freely available that we could only dream of. Like how Liriano's two best pitches play against the 6-7-8 hitters in a lineup the first time through. He sees something here. I'll trust the math.

As far as deals that got done or didn't... It seems that he had at least one deal in place that got nixed by an imbecile who is running his team straight in to the shitter. Not his fault. But the other deals...? Luhnow either didn't trust the math or they simply weren't on the table. The two best starting pitchers available were from within the division. The price may have been higher for the Astros.

We now have to rely on getting people healthy. Also,  who knows what might pop up on the waiver wire?

For me, I'm gunna "trust the math" this season. It's gotten us this far and it's gotten us a damn good team.

[Fynn]

So luckily I had a very long drive to do today that I put off until right after the trade deadline. Initially, I thought it'd be a great time to make the drive seem short by listening to the trade analaysis on all the crazy deals JL pulled off. It didn't work out that way.

However, I'm glad I planned it that way as I likely would have posted something "emotional"... which I think is understandable. Most everyone here would agree this is a special season, it's hard not to get emotionable about it. So instead I put on some great music, thought about it some, then didn't, then thought about it some more. At first it was the Aoki trade that was really bugging me, I really liked what he brought to the team, but there's this one JL quote that kept coming back to me throughout the drive, "trust the math".

Then it was coming to terms with the fact Liriano is the only incoming help this pitching staff has. Again though... "trust the math". Ok...

Another issue I kept running through my thick 'noggin was my initial reaction to some of the prospects it seemingly took to get players I thought would be useful on the Astros. Surely we could have offered better... right? The more I thought about it the more I kept coming back to the same conclusion. Luhnow is doing exactly what he did to get this team to where it is now. Trusting the math.

JL has had a big part in creating a team that is unarguably very good this year and will be very good for at least a couple more years. He's done it in large part by sticking to this philosophy. He sees something in Fisher that made him comfortable trading Aoki. As fun as he was to watch I'll trust the math here.

JL obviously went waaay beyond Liriano's stats against lefties as a starter. He likely has data freely available that we could only dream of. Like how Liriano's two best pitches play against the 6-7-8 hitters in a lineup the first time through. He sees something here. I'll trust the math.

As far as deals that got done or didn't... It seems that he had at least one deal in place that got nixed by an imbecile who is running his team straight in to the shitter. Not his fault. But the other deals...? Luhnow either didn't trust the math or they simply weren't on the table. The two best starting pitchers available were from within the division. The price may have been higher for the Astros.

We now have to rely on getting people healthy. Also,  who knows what might pop up on the waiver wire?

For me, I'm gunna "trust the math" this season. It's gotten us this far and it's gotten us a damn good team.

Its difficult to understand the machinations of the trade market when we know so little of the negotiations and games which the general managers play.  We only hear the public pronouncements so really know next to nothing about why decisions are truly made.  Luhnow has built this team from nothing, so why second guess him?  It would have been nice to have an additional reliever, but my personal guess is when one has a deep system, the price goes up proportionally. 

[Mr. Happy]

Its difficult to understand the machinations of the trade market when we know so little of the negotiations and games which the general managers play.  We only hear the public pronouncements so really know next to nothing about why decisions are truly made.  Luhnow has built this team from nothing, so why second guess him?  It would have been nice to have an additional reliever, but my personal guess is when one has a deep system, the price goes up proportionally.

Exactly.

[The Third Man]

The chicken little fans should be forgiven a little considering that the Astros had one of the worst four year stretches in MLB history. Those more knowledgeable fan bases have experienced World Series titles. We can't say that as Astros fans. With greatness seemingly there for the taking, it is understandable why people are lamenting today's trade deadline results. This is especially the case given that Luhnow, himself, has signaled the importance of adding pitching.

[JimR]

The chicken little fans should be forgiven a little considering that the Astros had one of the worst four year stretches in MLB history. Those more knowledgeable fan bases have experienced World Series titles. We can't say that as Astros fans. With greatness seemingly there for the taking, it is understandable why people are lamenting today's trade deadline results. This is especially the case given that Luhnow, himself, has signaled the importance of adding pitching.

Do you really think he did not try?

[BUWebguy]

If you believe the reports, he traded for Britton. The Baltimore GM agreed, and Angelos vetoed the trade.

Who reported this?  I agree it makes sense with what Luhnow said; just curious to see a link or source.

[MusicMan]

Who reported this?  I agree it makes sense with what Luhnow said; just curious to see a link or source.

Crane said during the broadcast last night that they had a "done deal", but the other owner vetoed it. He seemed pretty pissed about it. Not too hard to infer that it was Angelos, who has a history of such meddling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AtascAstro]

Who reported this?  I agree it makes sense with what Luhnow said; just curious to see a link or source.

It is being inferred based on separate comments from Luhnow, Crane and other media.  Basically, Luhnow said we had deals "90%" done that he thought would get done.  Crane said that he's never blocked a deal from his front office (without really being prompted).  Add to that Rosenthal's tweet that about Angelos wanting more.

Putting it all together sounds like the Baltimore and Houston front office had a deal in place but it wasn't good enough for Angelos.

[JimR]

I have an Astros fan neighbor/friend who works for ESPN. She said flat out yesterday Angelos vetoed the Britton trade the two GMs made. She said a pitcher was going back.

ETA: I also would like to know what happened to a possible deal for Hand at the last minute.

Nate, please refresh my memory on waiver trade mechanics.

[Duman]

Lest we forget about deals at the deadline.  It might be good for every one to go back and read this classic:  Anatomy of a baseball trade.

Which included this memorable section:

At 7 p.m., Wade’s phone rings as he’s about to head home. It’s the general manager of another team inquiring for the first time about Bourn.
 
Astros: Wade – Our briefcases are packed up now, all we have to do is just say novenas for the rest of the night hoping Michael doesn’t get hurt. And I’m just about 10 paces from the elevator to push the button to go down to the parking garage. I said, “Out of respect, I don’t want to waste your time. I think we’re pretty far down the road on something.” And the response is, “Even if I’m willing to give you better players?” And I said, “Just take me at my word. We’ve known each other for a long time, stay out of it.”

[JimR]

Lest we forget about deals at the deadline.  It might be good for every one to go back and read this classic:  Anatomy of a baseball trade.

Which included this memorable section:

Great article

ETA: my ESPN friend says she thinks Martes was in the Britton deal. She also heard another trade was cancelled for medical reasons.

[Jacksonian]

Great article

ETA: my ESPN friend says she thinks Martes was in the Britton deal. She also heard another trade was cancelled for medical reasons.

Angelos is out of his mind.  Britton will be a free agent before Baltimore reaches the post season.

[D.WARD]

You're always pissed off you grouchy 71 year old fuck!
I don't give a rats ass if you a triple pope and I am a rookie!
I am 61 and I thought I was a horses ass like my wife says, but you have me beat !

That's right I said it ..........you got a problem with that...... JIMBO!

U FOO!

[D.WARD]

I will miss the Jap slap....

U FOO!

[Jacksonian]

Lest we forget about deals at the deadline.  It might be good for every one to go back and read this classic:  Anatomy of a baseball trade.

Which included this memorable section:

That last minute phone call is why a lot of GM's don't pull the trigger early.

[moriartp]

https://twitter.com/castrovince/status/892364799815942145

Some good perspective on how big deals don't always matter and how nothing is written in advance.

[Bench]

U FOO!

U FOO!

+2

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

...!

Colt 45, you are a dumb shit. When you're finished fucking yourself, go fuck yourself again.

[HudsonHawk]

I have an Astros fan neighbor/friend who works for ESPN. She said flat out yesterday Angelos vetoed the Britton trade the two GMs made. She said a pitcher was going back.

ETA: I also would like to know what happened to a possible deal for Hand at the last minute.

Nate, please refresh my memory on waiver trade mechanics.

Not Nate, but...after August 1st, players can be placed on revocable waivers. If they are claimed, the waiving team can 1) pull him back, 2) work out a trade, or 3) let him go to the team that claimed him. If the player is not claimed, he can be traded just like any other time of the year.  So there's a couple of ways to get a trade done from here on out.

A couple of points:

Almost all players are put on this waivers at some point during this period.

A player can only be pulled back once. So if he's claimed and pulled back, then placed on the waivers again, he cannot be pulled back the second time.

Players obtained after August 31st are not eligible for the postseason. Except for the exceptions to that rule. Which are a mess.

[Mike S.]

Lest we forget about deals at the deadline.  It might be good for every one to go back and read this classic:  Anatomy of a baseball trade.

Which included this memorable section:

If I remember correctly, the Giants supposedly offered Brandon Belt and Zach Wheeler at the last minute (according to the talking heads here in the Bay Area).

[JimR]

Not Nate, but...after August 1st, players can be placed on revocable waivers. If they are claimed, the waiving team can 1) pull him back, 2) work out a trade, or 3) let him go to the team that claimed him. If the player is not claimed, he can be traded just like any other time of the year.  So there's a couple of ways to get a trade done from here on out.

A couple of points:

Almost all players are put on this waivers at some point during this period.

A player can only be pulled back once. So if he's claimed and pulled back, then placed on the waivers again, he cannot be pulled back the second time.

Players obtained after August 31st are not eligible for the postseason. Except for the exceptions to that rule. Which are a mess.

Thanks, HH. What if there are multiple claims?

[AtascAstro]

Thanks, HH. What if there are multiple claims?

Priority by same league, then by record.  (losers first)

[JimR]

Priority by same league, then by record.  (losers first)

Thanks

[doyce7]

Thanks, HH. What if there are multiple claims?

Lowest league position gets the claim I believe

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[AtascAstro]

Seems like a process more likely to help a team patch a hole to make the playoffs, pretty unlikely to find championship winning talent.  You hope to catch a good month of a Chris Carter or Carlos Gomez type.  Verlander being the exception, due to his contract.  If the front office has doubts about LMJ's health, that might be their best band-aid.  If they wanted him, it helps that the big money AL teams acquired pitching before the deadline.

This article offers Padres starter Jhoulys Chacin as the prototype waiver player - 10-7, 4.22 ERA.  It also reviews the waiver process, most of which is covered here already I think.

[JimR]

Seems like a process more likely to help a team patch a hole to make the playoffs, pretty unlikely to find championship winning talent.  You hope to catch a good month of a Chris Carter or Carlos Gomez type.  Verlander being the exception, due to his contract.  If the front office has doubts about LMJ's health, that might be their best band-aid.  If they wanted him, it helps that the big money AL teams acquired pitching before the deadline.

This article offers Padres starter Jhoulys Chacin as the prototype waiver player - 10-7, 4.22 ERA.  It also reviews the waiver process, most of which is covered here already I think.

It can also be used to revive a trade not consummated before the deadline, but it is much more difficult because rivals can block it.

[AtascAstro]

It can also be used to revive a trade not consummated before the deadline, but it is much more difficult because rivals can block it.

Even beyond rivals, the "claim" simply says I will take that player at their current contract.  It can't move beyond the first team willing to take that.  The trade only exists as an alternative to the waiving team pulling the player back.  Players like Britton/Hand wouldn't make it past anybody.  So the only players that make it through are undesirable to every team under their current contract terms.

[JimR]

Even beyond rivals, the "claim" simply says I will take that player at their current contract.  It can't move beyond the first team willing to take that.  The trade only exists as an alternative to the waiving team pulling the player back.  Players like Britton/Hand wouldn't make it past anybody.  So the only players that make it through are undesirable to every team under their current contract terms.

In the more collegial past, GMs have respected a trade deal made by a team above them and have not blocked the trade with a claim. I do not expect that sort of collegiality today.

[Fredia]

whats done or not done well is done. Ladies and mostly Gents its August, l  get all  afraid of upsetting the bbg so I will just say there is a bit of a lead in the west. I for one am looking forward to the rest of the season and seeing how it plays out

[AtascAstro]

In the more collegial past, GMs have respected a trade deal made by a team above them and have not blocked the trade with a claim. I do not expect that sort of collegiality today.

That would make for a fantastic article.  Would be interesting to hear when old and new GMs think that changed and what event/season might have been the watershed.

[Andyzipp]

Even beyond rivals, the "claim" simply says I will take that player at their current contract.  It can't move beyond the first team willing to take that.  The trade only exists as an alternative to the waiving team pulling the player back.  Players like Britton/Hand wouldn't make it past anybody.  So the only players that make it through are undesirable to every team under their current contract terms.

Not that it matters, but I'd actually hope the Tigers want something in return for Verlander and offer some contract relief to sweeten the pot.

[JimR]

Not that it matters, but I'd actually hope the Tigers want something in return for Verlander and offer some contract relief to sweeten the pot.

Probably the only realistic scenario for a waiver trade.

[Nate Colbert]

Brian McTaggart  @brianmctaggart 7m ago
When asked about Trade Deadline, Keuchel said: "I'm not going to lie. Disappointment is a little bit of an understatement."

[hostros7]

Brian McTaggart  @brianmctaggart 7m ago
When asked about Trade Deadline, Keuchel said: "I'm not going to lie. Disappointment is a little bit of an understatement."

Dallas needs to bite his tongue in public if he's ever going to be an effective team leader.

[toddthebod]

Keuchel is just repeating what he said earlier. 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/keuchel-astros-intrigued-about-potential-trade-for-rotation-help-062915

[toddthebod]

This gloom and doom shit should be deleted. Buy a team and show me how it is done. You have ZERO knowledge of the negotiations. There are two full months to go.

This is Ray Kerby stuff you posted.

Here's a reminder of all the things you posted over the past few months just in this thread.  I'm just agreeing with you:

We need pitching

This team needs a pitcher. Period.

You cannot count on Kuechel or assume health where there is none.

Robertson is RH? Need lefty more.

Derek Fisher has a bright future, but the point is to win now.

You are crazy or are not paying attention. This is the time to "win now," not to fret about "star potential."

Yep. We need the guy who can win a 2-1 game.

That team is a lot less good today. I will be astonished if we stand pat.

Perhaps Luhnow did not want Robertson. I cannot believe he will let the deadline pass without doing something.

If Luhnow stands pat, I will be astonished and aghast.

If he stands pat, you won't love it. We won't win, and this team will resent his not doing all he can to win this year.

No one is ever good enough for TZ denizens to accept giving up Astros' prospects, it appears. What is a main purpose of a deep and talented minor league system? Are we going to win the WS with Kuechel, McCullers and pick two of Morton, McHugh, and Fiers plus the bullpen we have after roster adjustments? I'll hang up and listen.

[JimR]

Here's a reminder of all the things you posted over the past few months just in this thread.  I'm just agreeing with you:

We need pitching

This team needs a pitcher. Period.

You cannot count on Kuechel or assume health where there is none.

Robertson is RH? Need lefty more.

Derek Fisher has a bright future, but the point is to win now.

You are crazy or are not paying attention. This is the time to "win now," not to fret about "star potential."

Yep. We need the guy who can win a 2-1 game.

That team is a lot less good today. I will be astonished if we stand pat.

Perhaps Luhnow did not want Robertson. I cannot believe he will let the deadline pass without doing something.

If Luhnow stands pat, I will be astonished and aghast.




If he stands pat, you won't love it. We won't win, and this team will resent his not doing all he can to win this year.

No one is ever good enough for TZ denizens to accept giving up Astros' prospects, it appears. What is a main purpose of a deep and talented minor league system? Are we going to win the WS with Kuechel, McCullers and pick two of Morton, McHugh, and Fiers plus the bullpen we have after roster adjustments? I'll hang up and listen.

Are you paying attention? Angelos vetoed the Britton trade. Luhnow did not stand pat.

Buy a team, and show me how to do it.

[juliogotay]

Keuchel is just repeating what he said earlier. 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/keuchel-astros-intrigued-about-potential-trade-for-rotation-help-062915

That Keuchel article you linked to was from 2015? And he mentioned several starters he hoped they could maybe get and one was Kazmir which Luhnow got. What am I missing?

[toddthebod]

There were plenty of other capable relievers (and starters) who were traded.  Luhnow put all of his chips into one player.  So when Angelos vetoed the trade, the Astros were no longer able to make any deals of note.  That is a massive fuckup as far as I am concerned.   

[toddthebod]

That Keuchel article you linked to was from 2015? And he mentioned several starters he hoped they could maybe get and one was Kazmir which Luhnow got. What am I missing?

Sorry.  I thought I had found his quote from earlier in this season.  He said the same thing this year as well.  I'll find it. 

[chuck]

Breathtaking lackeyism.

[JimR]

There were plenty of other capable relievers (and starters) who were traded.  Luhnow put all of his chips into one player.  So when Angelos vetoed the trade, the Astros were no longer able to make any deals of note.  That is a massive fuckup as far as I am concerned.

Such bullshit. How do you know what he tried to do, what he offered, what they wanted, or what happened to the deal. You don't know shit, like the rest of us.

You are a second-guessing frontrunner. Bandwagon Todd the Bod, at least you have outgrown four team trade ideas.

[JimR]

Breathtaking lackeyism.

I hope you are not talking about me, chuck. I would hate to tell someone I really like to go fuck himself.

[toddthebod]

Such bullshit. How do you know what he tried to do, what he offered, what they wanted, or what happened to the deal. You don't know shit, like the rest of us.

You are a second-guessing frontrunner. Bandwagon Todd the Bod, at least you have outgrown four team trade ideas.

I love how you call me a front-runner and a bandwagoner.  Like you don't personally know that I have followed this team through thick and thin. 

[WVastro]

Moving on....

Who will likely be available this month via a waiver deal? I can think of:

Justin Verlander
Ervin Santana

Relievers?

[BudGirl]

Moving on....

Who will likely be available this month via a waiver deal? I can think of:

Justin Verlander
Ervin Santana

Relievers?

Britton?
Hand?

[JimR]

I love how you call me a front-runner and a bandwagoner.  Like you don't personally know that I have followed this team through thick and thin.

Yeah, boy, your post yesterday sure showed me that.

[WVastro]

Britton?
Hand?

I think both of them will be claimed well before the Astros have a chance.

[moriartp]

Britton?
Hand?

No chance either gets through waivers.

[JimR]

Brian McTaggart  @brianmctaggart 7m ago
When asked about Trade Deadline, Keuchel said: "I'm not going to lie. Disappointment is a little bit of an understatement."

Shut up and pitch, Dallas. You weren't so good last time out.

[jbm]

Shut up and pitch, Dallas. You weren't so good last time out.

Total agreement here.  Hard to understand his sentiment when he's on a team as talented as this.

[The Third Man]

If the players are disappointed with the "we tried really hard" rhetoric from management, maybe we shouldn't dismiss them out of hand. Either Crane and Luhnow did not take the time to communicate with their players about what happened, they did not communicate effectively, or they don't have credibility with some in the clubhouse.

[Andyzipp]

If the players are disappointed with the "we tried really hard" rhetoric from management, maybe we shouldn't dismiss them out of hand. Either Crane and Luhnow did not take the time to communicate with their players about what happened, they did not communicate effectively, or they don't have credibility with some in the clubhouse.

Or Dallas Keuchel is a petulant child who believes what he wants to believe.  That is also an option.

[Bench]

Or Dallas Keuchel is a petulant child who believes what he wants to believe.  That is also an option.

Or Dallas was, like all of us, hoping to add another impact player and is disappointed that, for whatever reason, it didn't work out.  Seems reasonable enough to me. 

I don't think his comments are the equivalent of the LUHNOW IS A LOSER THE ASTROS ARE THE TRADE DEADLINE LOSERS posts that we've seen around.

[Andyzipp]

Or Dallas was, like all of us, hoping to add another impact player and is disappointed that, for whatever reason, it didn't work out.  Seems reasonable enough to me. 

I don't think his comments are the equivalent of the LUHNOW IS A LOSER THE ASTROS ARE THE TRADE DEADLINE LOSERS posts that we've seen around.

The problem is as the second longest tenured Astro and supposed team leader, making those comments is completely inappropriate.  He made it clear that he thinks his teammates need an upgrade.  Even if that’s true, why throw your team under the bus.

Further, instead of displaying any understanding of the intricacies of a baseball trade (and it was explained to the team) Keuchel has decided to make it an issue with the front office, saying “we’ll just play for the guys in this clubhouse.  That’s it.”

This isn’t just a fan being disappointed in the heat of the moment.  It’s your best pitcher saying things he doesn’t need to say 24 hours after the fact, and making it seem like there’s a rift between the players and the front office.

[JimR]

The problem is as the second longest tenured Astro and supposed team leader, making those comments is completely inappropriate.  He made it clear that he thinks his teammates need an upgrade.  Even if that’s true, why throw your team under the bus.

Further, instead of displaying any understanding of the intricacies of a baseball trade (and it was explained to the team) Keuchel has decided to make it an issue with the front office, saying “we’ll just play for the guys in this clubhouse.  That’s it.”

This isn’t just a fan being disappointed in the heat of the moment.  It’s your best pitcher saying things he doesn’t need to say 24 hours after the fact, and making it seem like there’s a rift between the players and the front office.

This plus a million, and Kuechel is not "the team."

[The Third Man]

Keuchel "threw his teammates under the bus" is the narrative now? Horseshit. The GM identified upgrading the pitching as a priority going into the deadline- was he throwing his players under the bus? You want Keuchel to show more maturity and keep it in house, fine. I can't dismiss his frustration, or be too critical of his professionalism.  Keuchel struggled through injury last year and nothing was made public and he went about his business. I respect him and I bet his teammates do, as well.

[Waldo]

I heard Keuchel's entire comment in context on the radio this afternoon and it wasn't that bad.  In fact, it echoed much of the rational sentiment here.  I'll try to find it.

ETA - entire comments here.  He said more than I heard on the radio.  I can understand the gripe with some of the comments.

[JimR]

Keuchel "threw his teammates under the bus" is the narrative now? Horseshit. The GM identified upgrading the pitching as a priority going into the deadline- was he throwing his players under the bus? You want Keuchel to show more maturity and keep it in house, fine. I can't dismiss his frustration, or be too critical of his professionalism.  Keuchel struggled through injury last year and nothing was made public and he went about his business. I respect him and I bet his teammates do, as well.

Shut up and pitch

[Mr. Happy]

Shut up and pitch

Bingo.

[Duke]

The 'Stros must have really blown it.   Bohls said so in his column this morning.

[austro]

The 'Stros must have really blown it.   Bohls said so in his column this morning.

What are the odds that Bohls will revisit this and issue a mea culpa if Tucker and  Fisher are tearing up the league in two years?

[Duke]

Nonexistent.  I can't believe he's worked at the Statesman as long as he has.

[jaklewein]

To quote the movie "Major League"...."Who gives a shit, it's gone!"

The deadline has passed.  What's done is done.  I've moved on and still feel more excited about this team than any other I've watched in my brief 25-30 years of watching the club on a regular basis. 

[drew corleone]

That's where I'm at as well. I still see people on Twitter that won't let it go... both the "Houston blew it" crowd and the "people that wanted Gray are stupid" crowd.

More important things, IMO, like DK getting his shit together tonight. I'd hate for him to be disappointed again.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I may be wrong, and will take my Pope beatdown if so, but it seems like these teams ask Lunhow for the enitre top 10 of our farm system in trades, and then take far less from the other teams when he says no. Don't know if it's the art of negotiation or we think our prospects are better than other teams think they are, but it seems that teams shoot for the moon with Lunhow and then turn around and give up their players for far less.

That being said, I'm glad he kept Martes and Whitley. But Paulino's suspension might be a reason we couldn't match up in trades today.

This is what I was getting at with my post earlier wondering how much, if any, Luhnow's seeming willingness to overpay in prospects (in the past) colored other teams' dealings with him now. If you think you might be in line for a Giles or Gomez/Fiers haul, you may press the point with him while negotiating less rose-colored deals on parallel tracks with other teams.

[BudGirl]

This is what I was getting at with my post earlier wondering how much, if any, Luhnow's seeming willingness to overpay in prospects (in the past) colored other teams' dealings with him now. If you think you might be in line for a Giles or Gomez/Fiers haul, you may press the point with him while negotiating less rose-colored deals on parallel tracks with other teams.

He may have been over paying, we don't know because Angelos vetoed the deal.

[juliogotay]

Nonexistent.  I can't believe he's worked at the Statesman as long as he has.

I can't believe the Statesman still publishes.

[Andyzipp]

I can't believe that newspapers still exist.

FIFY

[Duman]

Average fan is also not aware that the A's asking price for Grey from the Astros was likely much higher than the Yankees because they would have to face Grey more in the division if he were an Astro.  Basically the price for Grey and Darvish was higher because of being in the same division. That limits the pool for starting pitching.

[Mr. Happy]

Average fan is also not aware that the A's asking price for Grey from the Astros was likely much higher than the Yankees because they would have to face Grey more in the division if he were an Astro.  Basically the price for Grey and Darvish was higher because of being in the same division. That limits the pool for starting pitching.

Judging by what's been written here by many TZ denizens, we've got lots of below average fans in our numbers.

[chuck]

I would have to believe that every regular poster here understands that the price the A's or the Rangers would ask from the Astros will be higher than what they would ask of a team outside the division.

To me, the Astros were (are) an impact starter and two impact, closer-type relievers away from being able to think seriously that they are a championship sort of team. Sure, they may win this year with what they have, but I just don't see it. I don't think they have anywhere near the pitching, even if everyone suddenly gets healthy and reclaims whatever heights they'd ascended earlier in the year.

It is absolutely insane to fixate on Angelos' queering the deal that Luhnow ostensibly had with Baltimore. I mean, I'm some dumbass in a hammock somewhere and I am well aware that Angelos is a meddling old crank. Luhnow surely is far more acutely aware of this than any of us is. So to isolate your focus on Britton with no apparent Plan B seems like a tremendous mistake, never mind not landing any other impact pitcher.

None of us has any idea how Crane is going to manage the team going forward. Does anyone truly think that Springer and Keuchel will sign their next contracts with the Astros? I don't. This is a win-now year if ever there was one, far more so than last year, far more so than the year before. The Astros have an offense the likes of which we may never see again. Sure, the prospects that the team didn't trade may blossom and the team could go on a Braves in the 90's sort of run of dominance. But in addition to the prospects fulfilling their promise that would probably take retaining the top level guys they may lose over the next several seasons, and we don't know whether that will happen.

So I don't see how any rational observer could view the team's failure to add an impact pitcher (or three) as anything other than a colossal cockup.

Another thing, there is most certainly a rift between the players and the front office. The general manager has done some unbelievably shitty things to some high profile players. It is certainly possible that this sort of rift is not uncommon around the league, and it is possible that it is not particularly relevant at the end of the day. With the exception of Hamels the team doesn't seem to have any problem attracting the players it wants. But the Astros players were generally frustrated last year when no deadline moves were made, and since this year's team is significantly better than last year's, it shouldn't be surprising that there is palpable frustration this year, too. As for players being quiet about it, it's forever puzzling to me why so many of you are always so quick to side with management over players in professional sports.

[MusicMan]

I keep reading and hearing "Why didn't Luhnow have a backup plan?"

I follow this stuff pretty closely, and had never ONCE heard a rumor connecting the Astros and Liriano.

So my question is: What makes y'all think that *wasn't* the backup plan? If you know that the Britton deal is going down to the wire, and you know Angelos often scuttles deals, don't you go ahead and execute your backup plan just in case?


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[OregonStrosFan]

I would have to believe that every regular poster here understands that the price the A's or the Rangers would ask from the Astros will be higher than what they would ask of a team outside the division.

Nah, from what I'd surmise the A's were unwilling to include Jed Lowrie in the deal, so Luhnow told them to pound sand...

[jwhudson]

I would just like to focus on winning, and I really don't care who is on the team.  If we get to October and have won the division with the best record, we get to play in a division series.  Who will that be the opponent?  No way of knowing today.  So no judgments from me about the management, unless we fail to win.  If we go 31-25 starting today until the end, we win 100 games.  Seattle would have to go 47-7 to beat the Astros to finish.  Complain in October if we don't win.  Today's game is the only one that counts today.

[NeilT]

Another thing, there is most certainly a rift between the players and the front office. The general manager has done some unbelievably shitty things to some high profile players. It is certainly possible that this sort of rift is not uncommon around the league, and it is possible that it is not particularly relevant at the end of the day. With the exception of Hamels the team doesn't seem to have any problem attracting the players it wants. But the Astros players were generally frustrated last year when no deadline moves were made, and since this year's team is significantly better than last year's, it shouldn't be surprising that there is palpable frustration this year, too. As for players being quiet about it, it's forever puzzling to me why so many of you are always so quick to side with management over players in professional sports.

I really haven't heard that there's any particular rift between management and the players. Could be, I just haven't heard it. 

[JJxvi]

I also think we were involved with Hand, but unlike Duquette having to deal with Angelos, that guy is just a moron.  The idea that he's ever gonna get more value out of Hand than what he probably could have had on Monday is extremely extremely small.

[toddthebod]

Crasnick Tweets that Tigers put Verlander on waivers.

Does anyone know how long teams have to put in a claim?

[Bench]

Crasnick Tweets that Tigers put Verlander on waivers.

Does anyone know how long teams have to put in a claim?

Three business days.

[JimR]

You make me tired, chuck. You have been on the negative bullshit rant since Crane acquired the team. I do not know why you bother to watch the games, if you do, or why you post hear unless it is to gloat over anything you perceive to be failure.

Bullshit on a rift. Keep on throwing hand grenades. I am going to stop reading your posts.

ETA: if you were calling me a lackey yesterday, go fuck yourself.

[JimR]

Crasnick Tweets that Tigers put Verlander on waivers.

Does anyone know how long teams have to put in a claim?

I read somewhere today if no one claims him, Detroit can negotiate a trade with all 29 teams. Is that correct?

[Bench]

I read somewhere today if no one claims him, Detroit can negotiate a trade with all 29 teams. Is that correct?

Yes.  If no team claims the player after three business days, he can be traded normally, optioned to the minors, or released.  If he does get claimed the teams have two business days to work out a trade.

[Nate Colbert]

Who will likely be available this month via a waiver deal? I can think of:

Ervin Santana

He'll get cock-blocked before he ever reaches the Astros, but FWIW Santana threw a complete game today allowing just 2 runs on 4 hits with 9 whiffs and just 1 walk. That's his 2nd CG in his last 5 outings.

[WVastro]

He'll get cock-blocked before he ever reaches the Astros, but FWIW Santana threw a complete game today allowing just 2 runs on 4 hits with 9 whiffs and just 1 walk. That's his 2nd CG in his last 5 outings.

Crap. I thought his contract might be just big enough.

[Nate Colbert]

Crap. I thought his contract might be just big enough.

You may be right or at least Ken Rosenthal seems to agree with you. Since I posted that, I heard him say on MLB Network he thought Santana would make it thru waivers (though he didn't seem entirely sure of himself when he said it).

[WVastro]

You may be right or at least Ken Rosenthal seems to agree with you. Since I posted that, I heard him say on MLB Network he thought Santana would make it thru waivers (though he didn't seem entirely sure of himself when he said it).

The silver lining on all these contending teams loading up on pitching is im not sure who else is really going to be "in" on Verlander etc.

[drew corleone]

Of course they put Verlander on waivers. Half the league gets put on waivers. I would guess he clears because who is going to take the chance on claiming him? All the Tigers have to do is say "he's yours" and you're the proud owner of that albatross of a contract, albeit without giving up so much as a bag of balls. If he does clear then maybe you can still work on a deal.

[drew corleone]

Yes.  If no team claims the player after three business days, he can be traded normally, optioned to the minors, or released.  If he does get claimed the teams have two business days to work out a trade.

If a player gets claimed the team that put him on waivers can also immediately pull him back.

[doyce7]

If a player gets claimed the team that put him on waivers can also immediately pull him back.

Yes

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[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm an all-inclusive fan. I favor diversity of opinion in a group like this. I don't care if you